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  1. #1
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    Hardtail advantages

    Curious what the advantages are of an AM hardtail (Trans AM, Surface, Yeli, etc.). Are they just cheaper and lower maintenance, or are there performance advantages over a full sus? What do people like about them? I'm debating between a 29er hardtail (the Following) and a HT (likely the Rootdown) to go with my Bronson C.

  2. #2
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    At a given spec, an AM hardtail is worse in every way. It has a built-in speed limit on descents. It doesn't manage technical climbs as well. It is less forgiving of poor line choice and bad landings. It doesn't even climb smooth stuff substantially faster than a good FS, and so you're more tired at the end of the ride.

    That said, I'm always reaching for the hardtail when i go ride. I can ride every trail the FS goes, i'm still fast enough to hang with the group, hopping little features is super fun, and the whole riding experience is more intense. Once i'm comfortable with big features on my FS i hit them on the hardtail and feel that thrill of fear and accomplishment again. It's fun, exciting, cheap, and keeps old trails fresh. I have a 456evo2, but all the modern AM hardtails are pretty rad.
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  3. #3
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    It gives your ironic mustache more legitimacy and significantly augments any sense of smugness you may already carry.

    That's about it for performance.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    At a given spec, an AM hardtail is worse in every way. It has a built-in speed limit on descents. It doesn't manage technical climbs as well. It is less forgiving of poor line choice and bad landings. It doesn't even climb smooth stuff substantially faster than a good FS, and so you're more tired at the end of the ride.
    Summed it up right there. For true All Mountain riding [aka "mountain biking"], a good full suspension bike is better in every way. If you've got a Bronson, the only reasons I can see for having a HT would be if you wanted a "gravel grinder" type bike that is a little more capable than the average CX-inspired GG ride, for pump track/dirt jump type riding, or if you're a nostalga-freek and want something vintage.

    The AM hardtail is pretty pointless IMO, unless you're a sucker for punishment like scottzg.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    It gives your ironic mustache more legitimacy and significantly augments any sense of smugness you may already carry.
    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    unless you're a sucker for punishment like scottzg.
    Yup, hear these sort of comments all the time. Also 'you're crazy for being here on a hardtail' and 'have you ever ridden a FS?' it gets kinda old, but people are just trying to be friendly.

    It's more punishing on continuously rough trails, bumped out trails, and after about 3 hours in the saddle, so I ride FS for those rides. Otherwise it's not that different.


    You're in santa cruz... sawpit and lockemup suck on the hardtail- too choppy, magic carpet is great, braille is fkn AWESOME and you can hit everything, and wilder is better on the hardtail (and XC). Our local trails are generally more hardtail friendly than most riding destinations.
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  6. #6
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    An AM hardtail is a school. Yes its slower on rough terrain, yes it might not climb perfectly on super technical areas but it does make you think more, pick better lines, use your body as you should etc.

    The only thing it might have for it is that in slow technical descents it can be more stable (natural steps/rocks at almost stopped speeds).

    Then again, you get good with a hardtail, then the moment you jump on an FS you'll be flying!!!

    Ideally you'd want both to alternate between them.

    In my opinion its the same thing with flats vs spds...

  7. #7
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    I like it as a second bike. The FS will always be faster and more "point and shoot", but the hard tail is just another option on which to have fun on. I think of an AM Hardtail as just a "fun" bike. It's cheaper to maintain, doesn't have all the fancy bells and whistles, and can just be thrown in the truck, driven to the mountain, and beat on.
    It's also a good option if, like me, you're a bit of a drive from the more rough and rocky trails. It takes me about 45 minutes to get to the mountains, so for more local trails that aren't all that burly, the hard tail shines.
    At the end of the day it's just like any other bike. Ride it and smile!

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    For me, I stuck with an xc hardtail after realizing its faster than a typical am hardtail....i prefer using a hardtail for speed up and down and the FS for tough descents, jump, whatever etc.

    With that said, they are both fun. I pick the bike based on terrain and my own feeling for the day. But, again, I prefer a xc hardtail as it seems to capture the essence of hardtails while FS does that for more AM riding....

  9. #9
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    They beat you up more. Thats kinda not fun for me anymore. I sold mine a long time ago and havent ever considered buying one again.

    However, a normal xc hardtail can be fun. Even better, get a rigid bike, or a cx bike! They're so drastically different than a AM FS bike that previously boring trails are fun and challening again. Having an AM hardtail and FS bike is like having 2 things that do the same thing, but ones just worse. An AM FS and a CX bike give you 2 totally different experiences.

  10. #10
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    They call it HT because it makes everything harder. Now, that can make some things more fun if you're a masochist or rather have the skill to ride them. I lack those skills so on rocky technical AM trails it'll just result in me going very slow or crashing often, neither of which I enjoy. But some guys can just flow on a HT. I prefer to keep the HT relegated to gravel roads, xc, and smooth flowy trails.

  11. #11
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    Slower, trialsy type stuff, where you don't have to overcome suspension, or have it dull the suddenness of your inputs. That's an admittedly limited application. If your trail even has that stuff, it will likely be a tiny fraction of the overall ride.

    Still probably best suited where terrain dictates FS is of marginal necessity/value, but you still value descending and the occasional opportunity to get rowdy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Yup, hear these sort of comments all the time. Also 'you're crazy for being here on a hardtail' and 'have you ever ridden a FS?' it gets kinda old, but people are just trying to be friendly.

    It's more punishing on continuously rough trails, bumped out trails, and after about 3 hours in the saddle, so I ride FS for those rides. Otherwise it's not that different.


    You're in santa cruz... sawpit and lockemup suck on the hardtail- too choppy, magic carpet is great, braille is fkn AWESOME and you can hit everything, and wilder is better on the hardtail (and XC). Our local trails are generally more hardtail friendly than most riding destinations.
    I agree. If you're in Santa Cruz there are a ton of good trails for a good HT. Braille and the Flow Trail are possibly my two favorite places to mess around on my HT. There are other great trails as well if you know where to look.

    There is one thing to be said for a HT and that is you are forced to pay attention to what you are doing. Things like line choice matter when your body is providing a lot of the "suspension". The nice thing about this is, as you ride the HT more and more you get faster and faster, take those gains and apply them to your FS rig of choice and you'll be much faster.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    They beat you up more. Thats kinda not fun for me anymore. I sold mine a long time ago and havent ever considered buying one again.

    However, a normal xc hardtail can be fun. Even better, get a rigid bike, or a cx bike! They're so drastically different than a AM FS bike that previously boring trails are fun and challening again. Having an AM hardtail and FS bike is like having 2 things that do the same thing, but ones just worse. An AM FS and a CX bike give you 2 totally different experiences.
    Wow. Don't buy it because it's abusive. Rather, buy something more abusive (xc/rigid/CX). The argument for separation between bikes makes some degree of sense, but the abusive argument is nonsensical, given your alternatives.

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    I live in WI so a FS bike is a luxury item. My Yelli is my rough XC climbing bike and my Specialized Carve SL rigid SS is my XC smooth flowy bike. I also have a fatbike for days I just feel like it. The reason I chose a AM hardtail was to make my riding more fun vs a pure XC bike. There is nothing I've encountered here that I can't clear with a rigid bike, so 120mm of front squish just makes my hands happy. If I find a job somewhere with terrain that dictates a FS bike I'll probably still keep the AM HT for the fun factor.

  15. #15
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    There are some places that a FS bike is not worth the added expense, maintenance, and weight. When I lived on the Prairies my FS bike didn't get used much, instead I would ride a HT or rigid SS. Here on Vancouver Island a 6" bike is my regular ride.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Wow. Don't buy it because it's abusive. Rather, buy something more abusive (xc/rigid/CX). The argument for separation between bikes makes some degree of sense, but the abusive argument is nonsensical, given your alternatives.
    You dont ride a CX bike down the same trails you ride a 6 inch FS bike. Well, I suppose you could, but thats kinda just asking for it.

    You know that boring single track trail we've all been on, on a big AM bike? Thats a blast on a CX bike. That park you skip because its all climbing with no downhill payoff is the same deal. If you want to take some new riders on a ride and still have fun, a rigid makes it a lot of fun.

    Its a different bike for a different trail. Theres a lot of stuff not worth riding on a big FS bike, but its pretty cool on a CX.

    Im saying I dont like having 2 bikes for the same style of riding, where one beats you up for that style of riding. Its fun to have a totally different bike to take different places all together. Broader riding experience. Kinda like adding a road bike to the stable, but you're still on dirt trails, just different dirt trails.

  17. #17
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    @Samo831, it's worth giving this a look:
    Hardtail- Mtbr.com

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    Advantages: Less maintenance? Sure. A LOT less maintenance? Not really.

    Disadvantages: You have to work a little harder compared to a FS. Fudge factor shrinks up pretty quick, you start to find out almost immediately what your strengths and weaknesses are. You kinda can't f(%k around so much on a hardtail, you have to pay a little more attention.

    In a lot of situations, none of those are really bad things.

  19. #19
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    They build character!

  20. #20
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    HardTail allows you to drink more beer with all that "extra" work!!

    RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  21. #21
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    throw dh lite tires on it. pump. flow. repeat.

  22. #22
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    It connects you to the trail better, you feel the Mother Earth. It's like this: Imagine your early dating days, hoping to cop a feel...

    Full sus: You might have gotten grazes and touches above the shirt/bra a few times... "Ooo nip! I think?"
    Hardtail: Direct skin contact. "Whoa, definitely nip! And I love it!"

  23. #23
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    There is no good reason why a hardtail should be used for trail or AM use. FS will make everything smoother down with better traction up and a larger s safety factor when you make bad line choices. But they sure do have a fun factor that I really like which is why I ussually grab my on one 456.

  24. #24
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    as for mechanical advantages it is most likely lighter, simpler, lower maintenance, and more efficient (depends) than a fs rig. the real advantage is what it can do for your riding.

  25. #25
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    Take a look at Banshee also Samo. I've got both a Prime and a Paradox, and in chunky AZ I still ride the Paradox 50% of the time
    Low and slack.

  26. #26
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    For me its about the ride and enjoyment. I have an AM HT with 140mm travel fork. Its kinder on my arms than a rigid and cheaper to buy and maintain than a FS. Speed is not important for me as much as the time I spend out on the bike. One ride is about 20 miles and partly roads to get to the cycle path and into the trail centre and then through the forestry into the depths of Sherwood Forest none of it really challenging or hard to ride but close to my parents place and where I grew up so love the views and it was my old stomping ground. The other is a 10 to 15 mile trail center ride with some good climbs and down hills which are challenging. Going to the lake district can be all challenging with one of my rides there being only about 9 miles with almost 8 of that climbing on old rocky trails and foot paths. I dont think I would enjoy the ride any more or less on a FS bike but the HT suits me perfectly and I do pass some on FS bikes on all sections of the ride. I get passed by all types of bike too... Its a personal challenge and person fun for me, not what others think I should ride..

  27. #27
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    In this day and age, hardtails have no advantages whatsoever. Maintenance is hardly even a factor anymore. A properly designed full-suspension bike will help you both climb and descend faster. Now if we're talking about real mountain biking as we have in the Rocky Mountains, it's even more absurd to choose a hardtail if you can afford a decent FS bike. That said, there is a place for HTs.

    For example, if you're broke and living paycheck to paycheck like me, they are affordable. My only bike right now is a 35 pound 7" light-dh bike. I'm sorely wishing I also had a dedicated XC bike at this point; strictly for 30+ mile rides. At my price point, the only way to own a second bike is to purchase a used hardtail and accept that it will beat the shit out of me on certain rides.
    Bikes belong in Wilderness areas.:)

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookieMonster View Post
    Now if we're talking about real mountain biking as we have in the Rocky Mountains, it's even more absurd to choose a hardtail if you can afford a decent FS bike.
    As opposed to the poseur mountain biking that everybody else does?
    Last edited by Optimus; 05-11-2015 at 07:43 PM.
    Low and slack.

  29. #29
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    I live in central Florida where you can find some different decent trails for all skill levels and preferences but nothing to crazy for a red bull rampage competition for lack of a better phrase. I have a HT 140 mm'ers and a full sussie Raleigh Kodiak. I find myself more often than not riding my hard tail every weekend to parks as opposed to my Kodiak 2. I enjoy my Kodiak but my HT has a special place in my heart, I literally ride it everywhere, soccer, beach, parks,during winter to work, I even have a toddler seat attachment to carry my daughter around. Do I like my full suspension bike? hell yeah, do I like it more than my hard tail, nope. They are just the best bang for your buck, versatile and will make your money stay in your pocket or in your bank acct.

  30. #30
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    Wow. Bringing back the dead from 2015.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy G. Parrish View Post
    Wow. Bringing back the dead from 2015.
    That's not a record.

  32. #32
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    Post #22...

    I have never heard the HT thing explained that way...

    Also post #15 - TB/LB went on to buy a Pipedream Moxie which he rocked hard. He loved his Fugitive LT, but I believe he considered his Moxie to be his ďregular rideĒ.
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  33. #33
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    See post #22.

    Just a coincidence, but I took my 17 year old steel IF hardtail out for a ride yesterday. I live in the Rock Garden State. I suppose I got beat up but the old NORBA standard geometry still works and it was a hoot going around all the rocks instead of just rolling over them and wondering what that little bump was.

    The ride brought back the old thrill of lifting your front wheel on a steep climb and feeling like you were going to roll over backwards. Twigs became log crossings. I gained a greater appreciation for the dropper post on my FS. I smiled a lot. I had fun. I think I climbed faster. I don't really care. I had fun. When it was over, I said thankyou to the bike. I had fun. It was nice to get back to my early days of dating with the top down on my convertible.

    I'm still replacing my current FS with a new, longer travel one and I'll still have fun but, damn, that old hardtail is worth taking out every once in a while.

  34. #34
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    Ridden a ton on both over the last couple months. Over a 2-3 hour ride/race there is no difference in speed. The FS Pivot 429 Trail leaves my back and butt less sore which is nice, but itís also about 3 pounds heavier and I definitely notice the loss in efficiency from energy being absorbed in the shock. My HT Trek Stache with 29+ tires actually gives me more confidence monster trucking obstacles and overall is more fun to ride.

    Of course there are a ton of variables..the Pivot has DHF on the front which has more rolling resistance than the XR2ís, the Pivot weighs more, the Pivot is a demo bike so not completely dialed in to my preferences, etc. Bottom line for me is the HT at $2000 with little maintenance makes way more sense than the FS at $4500 with required annual shock maintenance of a couple hundred bucks. But when I get a little older Iíll want the cushy ride I suppose.

  35. #35
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    I agree there's something about being more connected to the trail. The performance advantages are acceleration and pumping/popping over stuff. My enduro bike pedals fine if you sit and spin. However it definitely doesn't accelerate as fast, especially standing up. This is very noticeable in tighter undulating trails.

  36. #36
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    Not really sure what qualifies a HT as an "All Mountain" HT. I never really saw much use for a HT with a 140mm+ fork. OTOH, a 100-ish MM HT with big meaty tires can be a lot of fun. Faster? More capable? Usually not, but that is not really the point, IMO.

    My back won't deal well with a HT for long these days, and the Karate Monkey I pulled parts from a couple years ago remains wheel-less, but I really enjoyed it when trails started to become boring on my FS bike. Also, when the trail IS smooth and flowy, there are few joys greater than railing it on a HT or rigid bike.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  37. #37
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    I love my 150mm 64degree hta hardtail. My favorite bike I have owned or demoed. I doubt I will ever be without a long low and slack hardtail again. They are just too much fun even in janky rock gardens. If I had bike parks around me and I was hitting big ass drops, I'd have a full sus but personally I don't see the need.
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  38. #38
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    I prefer a hardtail over fs but ride both on the same trails and enjoy both for what they are. Also I actually prefer the ht in the rockier sections for climbing but doubt there is an advantage of using the ht other than less maintenance.

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  39. #39
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    I sure have enjoyed having an "AM" hardtail the last few weeks while I waited on parts for my FS. That's why I have one, as a backup bike, but it stays active for various reasons. Lets me mix things up. I ride it with plus tires, and push it through all the same trails as my suspended rig. I like that slack geo and (130) long fork on tougher trails... it's not just for XC.

    So, the main advantage of a HT for me is it allows me to have two bikes, with differences that I can easily explain to my wife.

    "No, look honey, this one has no suspension in the back... it's totally different!"

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I never really saw much use for a HT with a 140mm+ fork.
    If the fork's behavior is well controlled and the frame geo isn't weird when the fork is bottomed, then there's no disadvantage to a more capable front end. A big fork opens up the range of trails where the hardtail is fun and not exhausting.


    I've had a blast taking my hardtail to downieville, moab, phoenix mountain... places where you'd expect a hardtail to suck. I'm currently putting together another hardtail specifically for that kind of riding- hope to 90% retire my big bike.
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  41. #41
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    Depends on how you want to ride. I don't finesse very well so I welcome FS with more travel. SMASH!
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  42. #42
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    Cushcore and plus/plus- sized tires have allowed all mountain hardtails to stay competitive in terms of the terrain they can ride. I built up a Nukeproof scout with a 140mm Fox 34 and Schwalbe 2.8/2.6 + cush core. Out of my 3 bikes, I was riding the 5010 V2 and Scout about equally, with the V3 Nomad getting picked about 10% of the time.

    Since the Scout kind of turned into my experimentation R&D bike, it now has a 750 watt motor strapped to it. Since performing that conversion, the total number of miles ridden on it far eclipse any of my other bikes combined. Still take it down single track, but it's also great around town/beach.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardtail advantages-20190714_204812.jpg  


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    If I had bike parks around me and I was hitting big ass drops, I'd have a full sus but personally I don't see the need.
    Why is that? I take my Rootdown to the bike park and hit 8ft road gaps regularly. Hell I rode the 2019 Masters World Champs DH course on it and now I regret not registering...
    Beware the hucking bear!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samo831 View Post
    Curious what the advantages are of an AM hardtail (Trans AM, Surface, Yeli, etc.). Are they just cheaper and lower maintenance, or are there performance advantages over a full sus? What do people like about them? I'm debating between a 29er hardtail (the Following) and a HT (likely the Rootdown) to go with my Bronson C.
    You'll climb faster :doh:

    Jumping is easier :church:

    You'll feel more connected to the trail :woot:

    Linked to above, being/needing to be - more engaged.

    Plus, you'll seem way cooler 'WTH!? You rode that on a hardtail!?'

    You'll get fitter on a HT i.e. from being more engaged.

    One less working/moving part to worry about or get dialed in or forgetting to put it in party mode.

    You'll become a better rider, again from being more engaged w/ the trail.

    One downside... things won't be as smooth.

    If you want smooth, go shave your legs... put on a onesy & drink lattes after your ride.

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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Why is that? I take my Rootdown to the bike park and hit 8ft road gaps regularly. Hell I rode the 2019 Masters World Champs DH course on it and now I regret not registering...
    That is fair. I'd probably like to hit something like that first with a full sus though just for a bit of safety factor. I know something like that or bigger can be hit on a hardtail (I mean people drop much bigger things on BMX bikes). I also don't know I'd personally want to ride a lot of shuttled downhill tech all day on a hardtail though. I think a full sus would keep me out there longer.
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  46. #46
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    I'm not sure the "lower maintenance" thing is that big of a deal anymore. I've been on my AM fs for 18 months now and while it has been out of service once for shock service, otherwise I've done no more maintenance on it than I would a hardtail.

    You'll get fitter on a HT i.e. from being more engaged.
    On a fs, you have more traction (more engaged with the trail?), so you can put down power more. You can sit more and coast less, so you can put down power more. It's less efficient, so you have to work more. All this makes you stronger. Yes, I believe you would be fitter on a FS.

  47. #47
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    I like 'em both. My FS is capable and comfortable, but it doesn't accelerate anywhere near as well as my hardtail. I might feel a little less love for the HT if I lived some place where the trails were on the more technical side for large stretches, but I end up taking the HT 60% of the time as it is so light and fun. Plus it is nice to run it singlespeed to change things up some.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    On a fs, you have more traction (more engaged with the trail?), so you can put down power more. You can sit more and coast less, so you can put down power more. It's less efficient, so you have to work more. All this makes you stronger. Yes, I believe you would be fitter on a FS.
    I believe he meant more engaged with the trail in that you feel more of the trail. I don't know if that would make you fitter though.

    I personally doubt either has much of an affect on fitness in of themselves. I mean you have to be more active on a hardtail but a full sus is probably going to be heavier so the extra weight and less efficency of the full sus is also going to be a factor. Ultimately if you enjoy a full sus more then a hardtail or vice versa you are going to ride more because of that and that is going to have much bigger effect on fitness.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I don't know if that would make you fitter though.
    Well I certainly disagree. I find that speed on a hardtail is much more related to fitness than on a FS because you never get any rest on a HT, you simply can't sit and rest. You need to work every bump on the trail to keep your momentum, it requires much more energy.
    Beware the hucking bear!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Well I certainly disagree. I find that speed on a hardtail is much more related to fitness than on a FS because you never get any rest on a HT, you simply can't sit and rest. You need to work every bump on the trail to keep your momentum, it requires much more energy.
    Agree with that...but then subtract energy spent pedaling the extra weight of a full squish bike. You have to spend a lot of money to get a full suspension bike under 30 lbs whereas thatís relatively easy to do on a hardtail.

    With equal components a hardtail frame weighs about 3 pounds less than a full suspension frame.

    Two XC bikes for comparison sake:
    Trek Procaliber Carbon frame = 2.5lbs
    Trek Top Fuel Carbon frame = 5.5lbs

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I believe he meant more engaged with the trail in that you feel more of the trail. I don't know if that would make you fitter though.

    I personally doubt either has much of an affect on fitness in of themselves. I mean you have to be more active on a hardtail but a full sus is probably going to be heavier so the extra weight and less efficency of the full sus is also going to be a factor. Ultimately if you enjoy a full sus more then a hardtail or vice versa you are going to ride more because of that and that is going to have much bigger effect on fitness.
    Yeah, you can expend the same effort pedaling a hardtail or a full suspension or a gravel grinder or a fat bike. You might go at different speeds, but the fitness/workout effect will be pretty much the same.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Well I certainly disagree. I find that speed on a hardtail is much more related to fitness than on a FS because you never get any rest on a HT, you simply can't sit and rest. You need to work every bump on the trail to keep your momentum, it requires much more energy.
    This!!

    You can't sit & coast on a HT...

    Your leg muscles are constantly engaged.

    Don't equate lung capacity with anaerobic capacity ;-)

    Plus, I believe/feel/have been told, that climbing on a HT on technical trails is actually more difficult than on a FS.

    Whether or not this is true, I'll leave it up to you.

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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Well I certainly disagree. I find that speed on a hardtail is much more related to fitness than on a FS because you never get any rest on a HT, you simply can't sit and rest. You need to work every bump on the trail to keep your momentum, it requires much more energy.
    I thought the same thing about a certain local trail until I rode with someone really fast on a hardtail who barely sat down the entire time. As I got more fit I started getting faster on the hardtail. I don't need to work every bump on the trail. Really small roots and rocks I just keep seated and pedal, others I often can just roll over with no noticeable momentum loss. I think a FS can be more efficient depending on the trail (everyone familiar with XCO races knows this).

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Well I certainly disagree. I find that speed on a hardtail is much more related to fitness than on a FS because you never get any rest on a HT, you simply can't sit and rest. You need to work every bump on the trail to keep your momentum, it requires much more energy.
    You can't sit and rest, but you can stand and rest, which is what you do a lot when the chatter is jackhammering the seat into your grundle.

    I prefer riding hardtails, and I would still own one if riding one hard wasn't so hard on the joints. But I think most hardtail riders don't ride them very hard.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDHutch View Post
    Agree with that...but then subtract energy spent pedaling the extra weight of a full squish bike. You have to spend a lot of money to get a full suspension bike under 30 lbs whereas thatís relatively easy to do on a hardtail.

    With equal components a hardtail frame weighs about 3 pounds less than a full suspension frame.

    Two XC bikes for comparison sake:
    Trek Procaliber Carbon frame = 2.5lbs
    Trek Top Fuel Carbon frame = 5.5lbs
    Well I don't know man. I mean, I have a burly steel hardtail with a Fox36 and DH components and it's pretty on par if not heavier than many FS bikes of people I ride with. I mean, this is the AM forum, right?
    Beware the hucking bear!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Well I don't know man. I mean, I have a burly steel hardtail with a Fox36 and DH components and it's pretty on par if not heavier than many FS bikes of people I ride with. I mean, this is the AM forum, right?
    Me too. My steel hardtail Honzo with a 140 34 is heavier than my 150/130 Druid with a 36! Did not buy the Honzo based on weight
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