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Thread: Geometry trends

  1. #1
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    Geometry trends

    I have been looking at new frames from most of major manufacturers since I would like to get one next year. Personally I like a bike with short chainstay and reach. However, I canít help noticing pretty much most of them ditching short bikes even for trail bikes. I get that long bikes are more stable and can go faster easier. However, I am afraid that it is done by sacrificing ease of popping the nose. I like manualing and bunny hoping (English). I am sure I will get used to it over time but I am trying to get more consistency with these maneuvers still.
    Am I wrong on my assumption? Chainstay length seems to be around 430-ish on most, but reaches are definitely getting longer. I am a short guy with short legs and arms. Is anybody having any issue or simply nobody donít care?

  2. #2
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    Are you looking for a hardtail or full suspension?

    I have a progressive hardtail. It's slack, has a long reach and short chainstays (419mm). It's very easy to manual and bunny hop. I also have an enduro bike. It's slacker, has an even longer reach and long chainstays (445mm). It's definitely not as easy to manual or bunny hop. My advice would be to get something with very short chainstays. I don't think going short on reach will help that much (especially if you run a long stem). Also, coming from BMX, old school mtb geo is terrible for manuals, bunny hopping and jumping.

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    Thank you for your reply, jeremy.
    I am referring to full suspension bikes. I have Stanton Switchback which has very short chainstay. It is indeed very easy to bring the nose up. In fact, I have to be somewhat careful not to overdue it since I mostly ride my FS bike.
    In the past. I tried different size bikes, and felt a size bigger frame requiring little more effort to manual and bunny hop. So I thought these new frame with much longer reach may have similar effect. I really need to test ride new geo frames....
    Anyhow, it seems either not many people care about it or I am totally off.

    Thank you for your input.

  4. #4
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    Having ridden lots of new geo bikes I have these observations
    Every couple of years we have the new great thing but it is not better for everyone
    For me at 6 foot and 34.4 inseam a 460-470 reach is it---any longer and I am unhappy--cannot deal with 500
    The new geo with very low stack is an issue with my long legs----wish for more bar height---a common observation
    STA being real steep feel odd on the flats and kill my hands and tends to make riding ett too short---no ripley for me
    Longer/slacker bikes are not as nimble on flatish terrain regardless of those drinking the cool aid
    New non extreme geo is great here in Norcal where our trails tend to be pretty open and speedy--but in tight conditions would be a bit of a handful
    In the end you need to go ride bikes and pick what works for you---no new advice there

  5. #5
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    I'm so thankful for modern geo but the good thing about modern bikes is that usually you can easily downsize to get your preferred fit.
    Also, Pivot still does the really short chain stay thing. Also my wife's 2018 27.5 Mondraker Foxy has adjustable chain stays, which is one reason I chose it (to better match her chain stay length to her size small frame size.
    Good luck!

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

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    Only some body types can down size--for me there is no way as the cockpit is getting shorter with the steep STA making even some larges too short-----we see this in these forums on a regular basis----so for sure some body types can downsize but others are trying to upsize but getting too long of a reach as a result. In the end all this forum blather is of some use and often entertaining bu one needs to ride and make a personal decision

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    Only some body types can down size--for me there is no way as the cockpit is getting shorter with the steep STA making even some larges too short-----we see this in these forums on a regular basis----so for sure some body types can downsize but others are trying to upsize but getting too long of a reach as a result. In the end all this forum blather is of some use and often entertaining bu one needs to ride and make a personal decision
    This^^

    That's why when looking at a bike...you can't just fixate on the reach. If you plan on never sitting down and pedaling...then yeah...you can downsize.

  8. #8
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    Funny thing is that I hated bike fit before 2 years ago, it was just so bad.
    When you stand up on an MX bike you feel natural, balanced, and centered.
    My 3 previous bikes before my L Mondraker just felt do terribly awkward when standing, like I was holding my knee caps so I had to lean back which made me very unbalanced.
    They were just so bad. Thankfully mondraker rewrote the rules and most companies copied them.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    There aren't many companies that *haven't* jumped on the super-stretched geo. Couple that with a low BB (also en vogue) and you have a bike that is very heavy on the front for someone that likes an easy-to-loft front end.

    I like light front ends. I ride a Lenz LunchBox and a Lenz Fatillac. Short stays + high-ish BB's + reasonable reach = light front ends.

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    Thanks, mikesee. I will check out Lenz. I have been riding Knolly. Warden was great for doing manual and bunny hops. Yes, it is a rather short bike, but it was such a fun bike to throw around. Now with new geo for 2020, it almost looks like it went up one size for a small..... I am not too sure about it. Then again, as you stated, most companies have gotten on with new super stretched geo train. So there isn't much I can do. For a short person like myself does not have an option to go down on sizing since we are already on the smallest size..... I should have had more milk when I was growing up.

  11. #11
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    I currently ride a 2019 Chameleon and 2016 Stumpjumper FSR.
    I can wheelie both of them as well as the other. The Chameleon has a chainstay length approximately 3/4" shorter (I can't remember exactly), and Chameleon has a reach that is very noticeably longer.

    Both bike share the same wheelbase, within only a few millimeters.

    I don't know if I would say either one of them are not very poppy, but I don't know how to compare that against the type of bike you are thinking about that is 'easy' to manual, etc.

    With that said, I am terrified to pull the old 26" hard tail Stumpjumper out of the garage to wheelie it. If I practiced I could probably do a little wheelie but I've never been super good at it. I am decent on the two modern bikes I have, but it's taken time for me to learn the wheelie skill and I'm better than I ever imagined I would be.

    Are new, larger bikes, not playful? Not in my opinion. Are they less playful than an older bike -I can't honestly answer that but I suppose a small bike would be easier.

  12. #12
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    I am not an expert by any means, but I would not call new geo bikes being not playful. At least to me, "poppy" or "playful" is more about the suspension kinetics. A shorter bike is easier to throw it around, but it can be not as poppy if suspension is either large or soft. I like to have a trail bike with 130 or 140 travel on rear so that it can be more poppy than my long travel bike. Of course, even for trail bikes, new models are coming with super long geo.....
    Also wheelie is little different from manual since how you raise the nose is different (again I am not an expert. So I could be definitely wrong here). For wheelie, you can use pedaling to pop the nose. Manual requires shifting your weight while you push your pedals forward. So, if wheelbase and/or reach is long, it can require little more effort. I am sure I can manual and bunny hop with new long geometry bikes. However, I do believe it will be not as easy to do them. As for bunny hop, jumping high may be difficult since I suspect I have to extend my legs more to bring the nose. In turn, it will be more difficult to extend my legs to jump higher since they are already fully extended.

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