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  1. #1
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    Does It really matter?

    Reading most forum posts the 27.5 is dead as 29ers are faster, horst link is crap because it is less efficient, and flats aren't efficient.

    Today's EWS results, top three bikes were 27.5, top two were also horst links, top rider was on flats.

    Makes me think, how much does all this really matter? If you look at the top ten you see all suspension designs, different wheel sizes, different tires, etc.

    Do we focus too much on small differences when what we should be focusing on is good bike setup and our skills?

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    It's almost like fitness and rider skill are more important than minor differences in equipment.
    Safe riding,

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdes View Post

    Do we focus too much on small differences when what we should be focusing on is good bike setup and our skills?
    No idea how you came up with that ridiculous idea. It's all the bike. Working on skills is a waste of time. Just buy the same bike as who ever won the last race and you'll be super fast.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    It's almost like fitness and rider skill are more important than minor differences in equipment.
    That, and also people on the internet are often wrong, stupid or both.

  6. #6
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    I don't care about EWS results.

  7. #7
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    people race these things

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I don't care about EWS results.
    You might now care about EWS results, but these are the guys that are pushing most of the bikes we are looking at to the limits.

    Every day we post stuff about how one bike is better than the other, how one drivetrain is better than the other, how one suspension design is bettr that the others, why wheelsize is so important, how fox is better than rockshox, how..........

    The truth is it doesn't make a huge difference, you will get more dialing in your setup to th way you ride.

  9. #9
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    It's marketing. It's blown out of proportion to take your money. Thank God they work so hard to fine-tune everything to the tiniest degree though because it does drive progression and makes the mediocre level bike an incredible ride compared to 10 years ago.

  10. #10
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    Are you happy? Because that's what matters. I'm happy with my 2017 ride. I'm happy with my 2005 ride, and still ride it almost as much as my new one. If you're happy with your gear, don't worry about the dude next to you, behind you, or especially in the thread above you.

  11. #11
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    Agreed. 29ers are faster.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  12. #12
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    None of it matters. 100% rider ability.

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  13. #13
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    Suspension performance probably matters more on the amature level. Gear too, for that matter.

    I've been riding for a loooong time, but I get busy with other hobbies and well... Life. I'm not that fit or fast. A slow tire or excessively bobbing suspension is a big deal to me. That wider range cassette sure feels good when I'm tired.

    I doubt a pro in peak shape is held back nearly as much. A pro on a nevegal shod 2005 FSR bob factory with 8 speed is still going to blow my doors off... But me on that bike? No thanks.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    It's marketing. It's blown out of proportion to take your money. Thank God they work so hard to fine-tune everything to the tiniest degree though because it does drive progression and makes the mediocre level bike an incredible ride compared to 10 years ago.
    Yes, they are so good at marketing. I know it doesn't have a big impact, but I still find myself looking at new bikes, forks, shocks, brakes, wheelsets....

    On my latest bike, a 2017 bronson, I was going to swap out the suspension bits as they were lower tier than I am used to (pike rc and monarch rt). I decided instead to see how far I could dial in the bike with these "inferior" parts. They are still on my bike, it took me over a month to dial it in, but damn the bike just rips now.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Suspension performance probably matters more on the amature level. Gear too, for that matter.

    I've been riding for a loooong time, but I get busy with other hobbies and well... Life. I'm not that fit or fast. A slow tire or excessively bobbing suspension is a big deal to me. That wider range cassette sure feels good when I'm tired.

    I doubt a pro in peak shape is held back nearly as much. A pro on a nevegal shod 2005 FSR bob factory with 8 speed is still going to blow my doors off... But me on that bike? No thanks.
    There is a big difference comparing a modern bike and a ten year older bike, I agree. And it will impact our performance. I am more talking about comparing one modern bike vs another. They are so close now that you can probably make all the bikes within a certain class work for you. Like an ibis HD4 vs a yeti sb6 vs a nomad.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdes View Post
    You might now care about EWS results, but these are the guys that are pushing most of the bikes we are looking at to the limits.
    That's not how racing works. Look at sportscar racing, different cars have different strengths and which is the fastest depends on variables like which track and the weather. The car is extremely important but so is the driver and luck. I think it was the 2016 Road Atlanta IMSA race where some of the slower class GT3 cars beat the prototype class in heavy rain. The race engineers know the gear matters even if you don't know how to interpret the results.


    Pro mtb racers often running custom parts, tunes and even prototype frames. Them working with engineers and mechanics is not the same as me buying a bike or part that needs to work mostly as is. Aaron Gwin winning a DH race with no chain doesn't mean that suspension design efficiency doesn't matter to me pedaling around my trails. I was listening to a podcast where Aaron Gwin was talking about one of his DH bikes has chainstays 5mm longer than stock and he was switching between it and his regular bike depending on the course. Does that mean if he gets beat by someone with shorter chainstays that chainstay length doesn't matter? No, off course not, that would be a stupid assumption.

    Another car analogy, a professional driver could take a couple cars out and set some lap times to see which is fastest. An amateur driver isn't necessarily going to be faster in the same car that the pro was fastest. Does that mean that the car doesn't matter and it's all the driver? (It doesn't)


    The truth is it doesn't make a huge difference
    Yes it does. My new 150mm AM bike is 15% faster around a local XC loop than my cheap XC hardtail (that I had much more time to dial in).

    Do we focus too much on small differences when what we should be focusing on is good bike setup and our skills?
    Honestly, these realigning your priorities posts are annoying. Focus on whatever you want. Everyone knows rider skill means more than what brand of suspension you have. That's not a revelation.

  17. #17
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    It all matters. If it didn't we wouldn't have this forum.

  18. #18
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    Enduro? What is that?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  19. #19
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    I can't afford a bike the Pro's ride & even if I could it wouldn't be exactly the same...

    Their bikes are finely/highly tuned race machines...

    They run the best of the best bits & then tune them to shave milliseconds of the timed runs.

    I doubt if anyone here is good enough to ride a thoroughbred, tuned, race machine - to it's limits ^^

    Mediocre gear is enough for the masses.

    'We'll all make it to the top... Some of us, might not make it to the bottom'
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  20. #20
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    We have all seen low level bikes over perform with pros on board. Many of us cannot max out the performance on the top level machines but......light bikes with high level of components are way more fun to ride. And fun and fast translates to more miles ridden and that means better fitness which leads to a longer life. So I will never max out my rides but eTap, DI2 XT and light, responsive keeps the fun factor high. I modified a Corvette convertible and modded it to 650 hp. I never come close to using the full capability of the car but it sure makes me smile at just the turn of the key. And that keeps me from ever selling her.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Suspension performance probably matters more on the amature level. Gear too, for that matter.

    I've been riding for a loooong time, but I get busy with other hobbies and well... Life. I'm not that fit or fast. A slow tire or excessively bobbing suspension is a big deal to me. That wider range cassette sure feels good when I'm tired.

    I doubt a pro in peak shape is held back nearly as much. A pro on a nevegal shod 2005 FSR bob factory with 8 speed is still going to blow my doors off... But me on that bike? No thanks.
    Actually, I would make the argument that most people - I mean 95% - would not be able to tell the difference between a single pivot bike, a dw linked bike or a bike with a HL. It is all marketing.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

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    Well marketing is THE way companies sell us stuff. Do recall Lance Armstong’s Trek Team bikes sold a ton of them and I believe got CF off the ground. If folks bought these bikes cause they wanted to ride a similar bike that was ridden to top podium spots in the tour De France, fine as long as they ride thousands of miles with smiles on their faces. It is how it works.
    Last edited by Emdexpress; 03-26-2018 at 06:27 AM.

  23. #23
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    Rider fitness, rider skill, tire selection/setup. In that order.

  24. #24
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    People should buy and ride what they like and we should all be happy for each other.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Actually, I would make the argument that most people - I mean 95% - would not be able to tell the difference between a single pivot bike, a dw linked bike or a bike with a HL. It is all marketing.
    95% of "most people" think $500 is crazy for a bike. I doubt they could tell either.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdexpress View Post
    I modified a Corvette convertible and modded it to 650 hp. I never come close to using the full capability of the car but it sure makes me smile at just the turn of the key. And that keeps me from ever selling her.
    Photo(s), please.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    No idea how you came up with that ridiculous idea. It's all the bike. Working on skills is a waste of time. Just buy the same bike as who ever won the last race and you'll be super fast.
    I do the same thing with my golf club set. Hope Tiger start winning again so my game get better.

  28. #28
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    Whether or not it matters doesn't matter.
    Do the math.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Whether or not it matters doesn't matter.
    Haha

    Gear is part of the fun. Ride what you got, buy what you can afford if it makes you happy

  30. #30
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    It depends more on the age of your bike and condition of your tires. Tech does improve rapidly so a new bike every five years or so is an advantage. Also tires suited for your conditions that are in good condition matter more than wheel size, linkage type etc.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdes View Post
    Reading most forum posts the 27.5 is dead as 29ers are faster, horst link is crap because it is less efficient, and flats aren't efficient.

    Today's EWS results, top three bikes were 27.5, top two were also horst links, top rider was on flats.

    Makes me think, how much does all this really matter? If you look at the top ten you see all suspension designs, different wheel sizes, different tires, etc.

    Do we focus too much on small differences when what we should be focusing on is good bike setup and our skills?

    Yes. There are a lot of "gear guys" in cycling, where materials, grams, angles of geometry, are all more important than physically moving your legs and sweating, and getting dirty, and crashing, and smiling. I have a co-worker who spends more time upgrading her bike with the newest shock, wheels, fork, headset, tires, whatever, in order to make the bike "complete." Meanwhile, that completion is never attained, and she spends all her time and money on the bike and not riding, so she's still very novice after riding for years.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Yes. There are a lot of "gear guys" in cycling, where materials, grams, angles of geometry, are all more important than physically moving your legs and sweating, and getting dirty, and crashing, and smiling. I have a co-worker who spends more time upgrading her bike with the newest shock, wheels, fork, headset, tires, whatever, in order to make the bike "complete." Meanwhile, that completion is never attained, and she spends all her time and money on the bike and not riding, so she's still very novice after riding for years.
    That's me!!

    Minus the money & buying the latest bling o_0

    'We'll all make it to the top... Some of us, might not make it to the bottom'
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