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  1. #1
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    DHF profile and rim width feedback

    I have 30mm (inner) 29er carbon hoops, and like the DHF exo up front for dry So cal conditions. For all-around use and peddling, I like the reasonable weight of the 2.3 version, but the profile is awfully square and constantly rests in the back of my mind. So I picked up a 2.5WT, which I only have a couple rides on, but other than DH-oriented days, it's a touch heavier than I like for all around use...and the profile "appears: slightly rounder than optimum (I say that carefully cause I'm not good enough to determine "optimum" profile)...I feel like 32-35mm inner would be perfect. But still I feel like the 2.5WT is better profile overall than 2.3 version on my 30mm inner hoops.

    So now I'm contemplating getting a second front wheel so I can confidently run the 2.3DHF up front on the days with more peddling. IDK, but was guessing a 26mm inner with something like a Mavic XA Pro carbon would produce be a better fit for this tire? Hopefully I would see difference in 4mm? Gosh, never would have thought I'd be seeking a rim to fit a tire and not the other way around, but guess that's exactly what I'm proposing (would be nice to have an xtra anyways)...

    Feedback appreciated!

  2. #2
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    How about trying some other tires with your existing rim?
    Bontrager XR2 or 3 Team 2.35 is a more rounded higher volume design with 120tpi sidewall.

  3. #3
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    Certainly one route I've considered. Right or wrong, i favor Maxxis and I've convinced myself the DHF is the ideal tread design for my conditions, and clearly is the most popular tire with advanced riders on the trails I ride.

    I'll have to have a deeper look at Bontrager, and I still want to lean on the "aggressive Trail" side of things, so I've been giving consideration to:

    1) DHR2 2.4WT (with Minaar cut) as a middle ground between the 2.3 and 2.5DHFs.
    2) Magic Mary 2.35 (I trust new Apex compound would give enough life), though I speculate tread pattern suits loamy conditions better than SoCal trails.

  4. #4
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    I ran a 2.5" DHF WT on a 32mm internal width rim and the shape cornering performance was fine. No complaints in that department.

    With 30mm inner width rims you could try the non-WT version of the 2.5" DHF if you didn't like the profile of the WT version on that rim.

    To the OPs other point with the wide variety in rim and tire widths you do have to pay some attention to matching both these items so they work well together. And if you want to run 2.3" tires and 2.8" tires on the same wheels you'll have to make some compromises since you can't pick a rim width that will be optimised for both ends of the size spectrum.
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  5. #5
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    I like the 2.5 WT MUUUUUCH better on 30mm id rims. So much so that I moved away from using the DHF in favor of larger tires until the WT came out. I think you're right in that 32mm id rims would be ideal for most tires. Syntace nailed this with their new carbon wheelset.

    One thing I've recently observed is that it's not just rim width/cross section that determines a tires profile. How high the bead shoulder and or shape/angle of the sidewall seem to affect this. I have Nobl TR36's that measure 30mm id and NOX Farlow's that measure 29mm id. Visually you can plainly see that the Nobl's are wider, but with identical tires mounted at identical pressures the tires on the NOX's measure and visually look slightly wider. Of course I could be off base here in my understanding of why, perhaps the tires came out of different molds.
    Last edited by WHALENARD; 04-11-2018 at 10:11 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Interesting. yeah, my plan would be to keep the 2.5WT I have mounted now for endure-oriented days, although I think I'm in agreement that 32 id would be perfect for this tire. Then I get a narrower rim to "best" fit the tire I'd like to run most days (2.3DHF). Not the cheapest solution, but I'd like the luxury to quickly/easily change wheels for the conditions.

  7. #7
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    This may not help but I'll throw my thoughts out there...

    Based on most of the guys I ride with, I keep trying the 2.3 DHF on 25mm internal, and keep going back to the butcher. It's too round of a profile, or the center knobs are too tall. The lean angle between falling off the center knobs and hooking up on the side knobs is too much for me, and in kitty litter over concrete it feels a little vague. Perhaps 30mm internal would improve the profile for the 2.3 - for me.

    my .01

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    This may not help but I'll throw my thoughts out there...

    Based on most of the guys I ride with, I keep trying the 2.3 DHF on 25mm internal, and keep going back to the butcher. It's too round of a profile, or the center knobs are too tall. The lean angle between falling off the center knobs and hooking up on the side knobs is too much for me, and in kitty litter over concrete it feels a little vague. Perhaps 30mm internal would improve the profile for the 2.3 - for me.

    my .01
    So the 25mm is too round for your liking, and 30mm is definitely square-as-heck. Interesting. Maybe 27mm internal would be the sweet spot...I also had my eye on the new Nobl TR33 (27mm Inner). certainly splitting hairs here between 27mm and 30mm.

    In regards to the Butcher 2.3 (Grid I assume), that is "more-quare" than the DHF?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    So the 25mm is too round for your liking, and 30mm is definitely square-as-heck. Interesting. Maybe 27mm internal would be the sweet spot...I also had my eye on the new Nobl TR33 (27mm Inner). certainly splitting hairs here between 27mm and 30mm.

    In regards to the Butcher 2.3 (Grid I assume), that is "more-quare" than the DHF?
    I feel like I'm the odd ball given everyone and their mother historically have loved that DHF/rim combo. Maybe I'm just crazy, but I know what I like.

    Definitely Grid, not sure if it's actually more square, but it feels like it to me. It has a lot more side knob flex, but it's predictable when hard on edge or in transition to the edge. I swear the DHF feels like it added a degree or so in the head angle the way it falls off the center knobs. Also, it's almost like I have to push the bike over a little further and counter steer to get it to lock in, in certain situations... if that makes any sense. I could probably learn to live with it but meh...

    These are just my observations/preferences for fairly hard all around tech, flow, conditions, terrain etc for SoCal trail riding. YMMV.
    Last edited by EatsDirt; 04-13-2018 at 01:34 PM.

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    I'd be willing to give the Butcher a try, in any rim width. I think the less-then-stellar reputation was earned in the control casing, I suspect. Thanks for the feedback!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I'd be willing to give the Butcher a try, in any rim width. I think the less-then-stellar reputation was earned in the control casing, I suspect. Thanks for the feedback!
    Worth mentioning... I typically get around three months out of a butcher before the side knobs start to get undercut. I then rotate them to the rear where they bog a little and cook fast. It's part of the reason I really wanted to bond with DHF.

    At least they're cheap...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I'll have to have a deeper look at Bontrager, and I still want to lean on the "aggressive Trail" side of things, so I've been giving consideration to:
    Consider the Bontrager SE5 Team Issue, and ignore the nonsense suggestions of the XR2/3. It's a true 2.3" on 25-30mm rims, larger than the DHF 2.3, and will still be appropriately-round on a 30mm rim. Tread-wise, the SE5 is probably the closest to a cut DHR2 you can get, without having to make the cuts yourself.

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    The SE5 does seem to resemble a cut DHR2. Appears to be a little bit tighter spaced in the corner nobs, which might excel on the harder stuff I would guess. Thanks!

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    FWIW, I really liked the SE5s quite a lot. Ran one as a front with various rears, and as a rear with e13 TRS or Mich Rock'R2 fronts on 24mm internal. US northeast, so lots of hardpack, rocks, roots, loose shale, some loam and some slop. It also wore fairly slowly.

    Also spent a little time with the SE5 front on 32mm rims, but not good conditions to have a real opinion on how the width affected it. It wasn't obviously bad, though.

    I'd buy them again for sure, if I wasn't trying something new.

  15. #15
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    I think you're picking the fly $hit out of the pepper. Don't focus on how the tires look mounted up, focus on how they ride. 30mm ought to be close enough for the tires you're using. If you don't like how they feel, it's probably the tire (or pressure), not the rim width.

  16. #16
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    If you combine a high volume Bontrager with a wide rim and you're not running dh speeds you can get your traction by lowering the psi you use. Doing this gives you a bigger footprint from a tire with flexible 120tpi sidewalls. The bigger footprint on loose over hardpack allows you to use a tire with lower height smaller knobs. That design is faster rolling.
    This is why in certain terrain where you're not cutting sidewalls from shale an XR2 can be faster and lighter. 693g. You can also look at a 2.6" XR4 Team on a 40mm rim if you think you want bigger knobs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    If you combine a high volume Bontrager with a wide rim and you're not running dh speeds you can get your traction by lowering the psi you use. Doing this gives you a bigger footprint from a tire with flexible 120tpi sidewalls. The bigger footprint on loose over hardpack allows you to use a tire with lower height smaller knobs. That design is faster rolling.
    This is why in certain terrain where you're not cutting sidewalls from shale an XR2 can be faster and lighter. 693g. You can also look at a 2.6" XR4 Team on a 40mm rim if you think you want bigger knobs.
    In certain terrain, SoCal, dry conditions mean blown out, loose and deep dust and rock. There is no way an XR2 is going to keep up with a DHF in that world. This suggestion for low pressurized, mid-knob height (at best), flimsy XC tires doen't even make sense is the conditions the OP is riding.

    Tires are not a universal item that can be applied to all conditions much like frame design, components and travel.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by beer_coffee_water View Post
    In certain terrain, SoCal, dry conditions mean blown out, loose and deep dust and rock. There is no way an XR2 is going to keep up with a DHF in that world. This suggestion for low pressurized, mid-knob height (at best), flimsy XC tires doen't even make sense is the conditions the OP is riding.

    Tires are not a universal item that can be applied to all conditions much like frame design, components and travel.
    Agreed. An XR2 in the front would mean certain death for me. At minimum there'd be a lot of gravel to pick out of where skin once was...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I have 30mm (inner) 29er carbon hoops, and like the DHF exo up front for dry So cal conditions. For all-around use and peddling, I like the reasonable weight of the 2.3 version, but the profile is awfully square and constantly rests in the back of my mind. So I picked up a 2.5WT, which I only have a couple rides on, but other than DH-oriented days, it's a touch heavier than I like for all around use...and the profile "appears: slightly rounder than optimum (I say that carefully cause I'm not good enough to determine "optimum" profile)...I feel like 32-35mm inner would be perfect. But still I feel like the 2.5WT is better profile overall than 2.3 version on my 30mm inner hoops.

    So now I'm contemplating getting a second front wheel so I can confidently run the 2.3DHF up front on the days with more peddling. IDK, but was guessing a 26mm inner with something like a Mavic XA Pro carbon would produce be a better fit for this tire? Hopefully I would see difference in 4mm? Gosh, never would have thought I'd be seeking a rim to fit a tire and not the other way around, but guess that's exactly what I'm proposing (would be nice to have an xtra anyways)...

    Feedback appreciated!
    Questions, do you lean the bike over in fast turns? Do you feel the front washing out? the DHR2 and DHF are made to be efficient when not leaned over. When you lean in the the turns you feel the side knobs grip and it slows you down, IMHO 30mm rims are ideal for the WT 2.4 & 2.5s. Over squaring or really low pressure makes you ride on the side knobs. IMHO a cut DHR2 is best for wetter climate. DHR is better for dry.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Agreed. An XR2 in the front would mean certain death for me. At minimum there'd be a lot of gravel to pick out of where skin once was...
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.

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    Yeah, I think this DHF 2.5WT is going to work out fine, though more tire than I want for peddly days, hence my wanting to find a little lighter tire potentially suited to a 26mm ID wheel.

    When I've seen the DHR2 2.4WT mounted to 30mm ID rims, I felt like it was the perfect profile, but yeah, splitting hairs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Questions, do you lean the bike over in fast turns? Do you feel the front washing out? the DHR2 and DHF are made to be efficient when not leaned over. When you lean in the the turns you feel the side knobs grip and it slows you down, IMHO 30mm rims are ideal for the WT 2.4 & 2.5s. Over squaring or really low pressure makes you ride on the side knobs. IMHO a cut DHR2 is best for wetter climate. DHR is better for dry.

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    I would be willing to give it a go for the peddly days...before the trails get too loose and blown out. I'm planning to order a few new tires I've not tried before and experiment. Thanks for the feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Yeah, I think this DHF 2.5WT is going to work out fine, though more tire than I want for peddly days, hence my wanting to find a little lighter tire potentially suited to a 26mm ID wheel.

    When I've seen the DHR2 2.4WT mounted to 30mm ID rims, I felt like it was the perfect profile, but yeah, splitting hairs.
    For the peddly days I run a cut dhr2 and agressor 2.3 on 26mm rims. Gives up a little traction but more efficient and the bike rrsp4onds quicky. The wider tires are for when I'm going faster than I can peddle, need the extra traction or bashing into rocks.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.


    Performance to me is running pressures right at the edge of getting rim dings, preventing burps, and a predictable feel cornering. What you describe sounds like a vague, squirmy ride among other things.

    I've ridden 30mm internal rims. They definitely didn't turn an exo casing into a dh casing as far as stability, etc goes as many seem to suggest. Rim strikes are still very much an issue... The theory that you can drop pressures much lower is a farce as I have experienced.

    Cushcore is a different deal completely. That is good stuff, but that also solves the burp, ding, and squirm issues.

    Perhaps our idea of performance is different. You sound like a plus tire candidate... where as I want no part of those things.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.
    Every bit of advise from wide rims and low pressure or plus tires wide rims and low pressure is for slow speed riding. And could be damaging and not effective for a lot of riders that would take your advise.

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    I'm talking 2.35 high volume tire on the front at 12psi-14. I'm saying you can make a hard line change mid corner and if you lose grip it's slow enough to recover. Same with ruts. I'd like to try a 2.6 XR2 on a 40 or 45mm rim when one is available. Bigger footprint on hardpack with loose is where I want to push things. Works in Phoenix with granite dust. Other combos for other terrain could include bigger knobs.

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    Yes, I love the aggressor out back. While I'll sometimes run other tires, 90% of the time the Aggressor meets my needs perfectly.

    And yes, that's what I'm talking about...for the person days, I'd like to have an xtra wheel, probably 26mm ID, and run the 2.3 DHF.

    ...just stopped by the local Santa Cruz dealer and took a look at the DHR2 2.4Wt on set if 29mm ID wheels...looked perfect and I like Its "only" 950grams. Gonna give that tire a try!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    For the peddly days I run a cut dhr2 and agressor 2.3 on 26mm rims. Gives up a little traction but more efficient and the bike rrsp4onds quicky. The wider tires are for when I'm going faster than I can peddle, need the extra traction or bashing into rocks.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    I'm talking 2.35 high volume tire on the front at 12psi-14. I'm saying you can make a hard line change mid corner and if you lose grip it's slow enough to recover. Same with ruts. I'd like to try a 2.6 XR2 on a 40 or 45mm rim when one is available. Bigger footprint on hardpack with loose is where I want to push things. Works in Phoenix with granite dust. Other combos for other terrain could include bigger knobs.
    This just proves that you are slow and you suck. If you could actually corner hard at a respectable speed, you'd rip the front tire clean off the rim if you were running it at 12-14psi, regardless of the rim or tire width. Even with a crappy low traction tire like the XR2 on a wide rim, I can tear it clean off the rim without even trying hard if I ran it at those stupid pressures. Hell, I've torn 3" plus bike tires off of 40-50mm rims at 16psi.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    at 12psi-14.
    This confirms we are looking for different things out of our bikes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post

    ...just stopped by the local Santa Cruz dealer and took a look at the DHR2 2.4Wt on set if 29mm ID wheels...looked perfect and I like Its "only" 950grams. Gonna give that tire a try!
    That's what I'm running on my Hightower LT, works very well. I'm 205 lbs and run 25F/28R psi. Sometimes having the minion on rear is over kill but man do they hook up. They don't require too much lean over and they're not too square either.

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    Anyone tried a semi-slick up front? Braking traction would obviously suck so it would take a certain type of trail for it to work on, but if the edge knobs start to engage soon enough then the "oh shit" feeling shouldn't be too great before it starts to bite.

    There is no getting around the fact that if you want a tyre to roll faster then you need to give up something. Either you move to an XC tyre, or you sacrifice grip whilst the tyre is stood up straight and rely heavily on side knobs.

    Also look at whether you really need a soft compound tyre up front. In my experience, going for dual-compound (harder) tyres doesn't give up much grip at all in certain conditions, particularly dry loose stuff where the tread pattern is the key to digging in and giving traction - just be careful with rocks and roots, especially if they're wet!

    Depending on how far you're prepared to go (read: how much grip you're prepared to give up), you could look at the Rekon 29x2.6. At < 800g it's a light tyre, it'll feel light and fast too, but of course that comes with a cost.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    For the peddly days I run a cut dhr2 and agressor 2.3 on 26mm rims. Gives up a little traction but more efficient and the bike rrsp4onds quicky.
    I'll probably run that same combo this summer after our rain season ends.

    RAG2 I have extensive experience with both the DHF 2.3 and 2.5 WT on 29mm ID rims. The 2.3's are just plain not enough tire if you ride fast as they will break loose in hard corners but they roll well and are a good aggressive XC front tire. I have yet to blow out the 2.5 WT on any corner. It hewks like CRAZY and the very slightly rounded profile is NOT a problem, trust me - you are being anal over the rim width, it just does not matter that much! The problem with the 2.5 WT version is that it is heavy and SLOW for use on a trail bike. Ideally Maxxis should make a 2.4 DHF with slightly shorter knobs (with modified Si rubber to help wear) for trail use. May have to give the Bonty's a try this year, everyone I know who runs them likes them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    This just proves that you are slow and you suck. If you could actually corner hard at a respectable speed, you'd rip the front tire clean off the rim if you were running it at 12-14psi, regardless of the rim or tire width. Even with a crappy low traction tire like the XR2 on a wide rim, I can tear it clean off the rim without even trying hard if I ran it at those stupid pressures. Hell, I've torn 3" plus bike tires off of 40-50mm rims at 16psi.
    Yup you're correct..
    That's why I said on another thread not dh speeds.
    My fault in forgetting to include that in this talk. It does make a big difference.
    OP said SCal so I took no mountain dh speeds for granted.
    It's all about the speed you can get out of the trails you have. Mine are shorter ups and downs without extended elevation change, so no mountains unfortunately.
    I have climbing spaced out periodically throughout the length of the trail.
    Carrying speed is very important. 12-14 is front tire only.
    I want the most speed available and that's why I go for faster rolling smaller shorter knobs.
    Big knobs are s l o w. Especially through rocks and roots that aren't part of big drops.

    I'm fast as I can get with what's available and something you ride because you need it for higher speed would only make me slower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    Anyone tried a semi-slick up front? Braking traction would obviously suck so it would take a certain type of trail for it to work on, but if the edge knobs start to engage soon enough then the "oh shit" feeling shouldn't be too great before it starts to bite.
    I run the Kenda BBG on both wheels on one of my bikes. With the right trail conditions it's pretty awesome. On hardpack, some loose over hard, or rocks, it's fast as hell and corners great as long as you know what you're doing. But if it gets wet or you have a deeper layer of moondust, loose dirt, or loam on the trails you'll have to plan your braking well in advance and ride accordingly. Either that or grow a massive set of balls and hope the cornering knobs hold so you don't fly off the trail and die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I'll probably run that same combo this summer after our rain season ends.

    RAG2 I have extensive experience with both the DHF 2.3 and 2.5 WT on 29mm ID rims. The 2.3's are just plain not enough tire if you ride fast as they will break loose in hard corners but they roll well and are a good aggressive XC front tire. I have yet to blow out the 2.5 WT on any corner. It hewks like CRAZY and the very slightly rounded profile is NOT a problem, trust me - you are being anal over the rim width, it just does not matter that much! The problem with the 2.5 WT version is that it is heavy and SLOW for use on a trail bike. Ideally Maxxis should make a 2.4 DHF with slightly shorter knobs (with modified Si rubber to help wear) for trail use. May have to give the Bonty's a try this year, everyone I know who runs them likes them.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    It's a great aggressive XC combo if you're peddling a lot to keep speed up, but still like to catch air and turn hard.

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    Just mounted 2.5 DHF and Aggressor on 30mm internal rims. I only had them on mild XC trails that were hardpack mixed with deep dust and sand. They worked so much better than the Rock'r and Grip'r they replaced. I think my rims are too wide for how those Miches are made.

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    Yeah, I hot out for a long down hill yesterday and be sticking with the 2.5 DHF WT for sure, for down-oriented days. Now just need to settle on a faster rolling tire for pearly days, though of course don't want to sacrifice much grip. Sounds like the Bontys are a promising contender.

  38. #38
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    The XR4 Team Issue maybe? They would seem to fit the bill of an all-around better roller while giving up minimal corner traction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I'll probably run that same combo this summer after our rain season ends.

    RAG2 I have extensive experience with both the DHF 2.3 and 2.5 WT on 29mm ID rims. The 2.3's are just plain not enough tire if you ride fast as they will break loose in hard corners but they roll well and are a good aggressive XC front tire. I have yet to blow out the 2.5 WT on any corner. It hewks like CRAZY and the very slightly rounded profile is NOT a problem, trust me - you are being anal over the rim width, it just does not matter that much! The problem with the 2.5 WT version is that it is heavy and SLOW for use on a trail bike. Ideally Maxxis should make a 2.4 DHF with slightly shorter knobs (with modified Si rubber to help wear) for trail use. May have to give the Bonty's a try this year, everyone I know who runs them likes them.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    The XR4 Team Issue maybe? They would seem to fit the bill of an all-around better roller while giving up minimal corner traction.
    I like the XR4 Team Issues but the difference in cornering traction between it and the DHF or DHR2 isn't minimal.

  40. #40
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    Darn, You mean no free lunch? Ha[

    QUOTE=jerempy3220;13624967]I like the XR4 Team Issues but the difference in cornering traction between it and the DHF or DHR2 isn't minimal.[/QUOTE]

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    Anyone tried a semi-slick up front? Braking traction would obviously suck so it would take a certain type of trail for it to work on, but if the edge knobs start to engage soon enough then the "oh shit" feeling shouldn't be too great before it starts to bite.
    Depending on the trails, a Vittoria Morsa (TNT G+) might work well. I've only run it as a rear tire, but I know folks who like it on both ends in dry weather. It has enough of a paddle to make it a bit more of a generalist than a true semi-slick while still being very fast-rolling. I slot it in between an Aggressor and a Slaughter in my tire wardrobe.

    It also inflates a fair bit bigger than a 2.3 Aggressor, which is nice. Downside is, with the center tread so shallow and spaced apart, the center carcass is much more vulnerable to cuts than something like an Aggressor.

    For myself, it gives up too much braking on the front. But the SE5 front/Morsa rear is probably my favorite summer all-day pedaling setup, as long as the rocks aren't too sharp and descents don't justify a meatier tread.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Depending on the trails, a Vittoria Morsa (TNT G+) might work well. I've only run it as a rear tire, but I know folks who like it on both ends in dry weather. It has enough of a paddle to make it a bit more of a generalist than a true semi-slick while still being very fast-rolling. I slot it in between an Aggressor and a Slaughter in my tire wardrobe.

    It also inflates a fair bit bigger than a 2.3 Aggressor, which is nice. Downside is, with the center tread so shallow and spaced apart, the center carcass is much more vulnerable to cuts than something like an Aggressor.

    For myself, it gives up too much braking on the front. But the SE5 front/Morsa rear is probably my favorite summer all-day pedaling setup, as long as the rocks aren't too sharp and descents don't justify a meatier tread.
    The Morsa and Maxxis Forkaster are good aggressive XC tires. I'll use a Forkaster for the rear if lots of leaves or if I might roll through damp dirt that will pack up an Aggressor

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I have 30mm (inner) 29er carbon hoops, and like the DHF exo up front for dry So cal conditions. For all-around use and peddling, I like the reasonable weight of the 2.3 version, but the profile is awfully square and constantly rests in the back of my mind. So I picked up a 2.5WT, which I only have a couple rides on, but other than DH-oriented days, it's a touch heavier than I like for all around use...and the profile "appears: slightly rounder than optimum (I say that carefully cause I'm not good enough to determine "optimum" profile)...I feel like 32-35mm inner would be perfect. But still I feel like the 2.5WT is better profile overall than 2.3 version on my 30mm inner hoops.

    So now I'm contemplating getting a second front wheel so I can confidently run the 2.3DHF up front on the days with more peddling. IDK, but was guessing a 26mm inner with something like a Mavic XA Pro carbon would produce be a better fit for this tire? Hopefully I would see difference in 4mm? Gosh, never would have thought I'd be seeking a rim to fit a tire and not the other way around, but guess that's exactly what I'm proposing (would be nice to have an xtra anyways)...

    Feedback appreciated!
    I run 2.3” DHF on 24mm internal width DT Swiss XMC spline wheels and I feel the profile is about perfect. They roll nice and corner well. I tired 2.5wt on the 24mmi rims and I felt like there was a huge dead spot when leaning over before the side knobs grabbed.

    Maxxis says the 2.5” wt tires are optimized for 35mm internal width rims but can run fine on rims as narrow as 30mm.

    Personally I don’t want 35mm rims because of the weight and you will notice the weight reduction of 24mm rims as much as the tire change.

    The only down side of 2.3” tires is that you feel the small rocks and roots more. I find the traction difference is negligible or I don’t ride hard enough to find the edge of traction on either tire 99% of the time.

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    Per the past 3 posts, thank you for the input. I just might have the try the SE5, Morsa and Forekaster offerings...I haven't tried any of them.

    And yeah, for me the 2.3DHR belongs on rim ID of about 25mm. And yeah again, the 2.5 DHF WT belongs on 35mm ID, though I've been getting along fine with this tire on 30mm ID.

    Yesterday I actually received the 2.4 WT DHR2. As I hoped, for me, it is the perfect profile for my 30mm ID. Sure wish they made DHF in 2.4...it's certainly a popular enough tire to justify. So I just completed the "Minaar cut" to mimic the DFH a little more. I compared, inflated, side by side the 2.4 DHR2 and 2.5 DHF. The cornering blocks appear to be designed and supported exactly the same, I'm sure of it (I saw where somebody said otherwise), although the blocks on the 2.5 are about 10% bigger and the gap between each block is about 10% longer. When I get home I'll compare the block size and spacing to my 2.3 DHF. In any case, I removed 11 g of rubber, so the 2.4 DHR2 should weigh darn near identical to the 2.3 DHF (less carcass, but longer/heaver center treads)...so I'm sure hoping this represents the compromise I was hoping for...a little better cornering and dampening, with similar weight and rolling resistance to the 2.3 DHF.

  45. #45
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    Also, on the DHR2, every 3rd block is without a center channel, so I cut a very slight channel there too, creating 2 separate blocks. In this way, I think the center blocks will closely resemble the design of the well-liked e-thirteen TRSR tires. I'll take/post a pic tonight...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Per the past 3 posts, thank you for the input. I just might have the try the SE5, Morsa and Forekaster offerings...I haven't tried any of them.

    And yeah, for me the 2.3DHR belongs on rim ID of about 25mm. And yeah again, the 2.5 DHF WT belongs on 35mm ID, though I've been getting along fine with this tire on 30mm ID.

    Yesterday I actually received the 2.4 WT DHR2. As I hoped, for me, it is the perfect profile for my 30mm ID. Sure wish they made DHF in 2.4...it's certainly a popular enough tire to justify. So I just completed the "Minaar cut" to mimic the DFH a little more. I compared, inflated, side by side the 2.4 DHR2 and 2.5 DHF. The cornering blocks appear to be designed and supported exactly the same, I'm sure of it (I saw where somebody said otherwise), although the blocks on the 2.5 are about 10% bigger and the gap between each block is about 10% longer. When I get home I'll compare the block size and spacing to my 2.3 DHF. In any case, I removed 11 g of rubber, so the 2.4 DHR2 should weigh darn near identical to the 2.3 DHF (less carcass, but longer/heaver center treads)...so I'm sure hoping this represents the compromise I was hoping for...a little better cornering and dampening, with similar weight and rolling resistance to the 2.3 DHF.
    Good information. Let us know how it works out. There is always a lot of talk of how great wider tires are but there is less talk about drag. Where I ride it is constant up and down so excessive drag gets old quick.

    Running 2.3” tires I do miss the damping effect of 2.5/2.4” tires but it was a good change over all for me.

    I demoed a bike with 2.6” maxxis tires on 35mm rims (18psi/20psi) and the weight (rims) and drag (tires) was really bad. I can’t see myself running a setup like that.

  47. #47
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    I run a dhf 2.5 on a 30 mm rim, works well ,great grip, 26 psi or so tubeless. NE rocks and roots.

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    For the front...on same 30mm ID, I have been running anywhere between 17 and 22PSI. Depending on conditions. But I am a light rider. For me a little lower pressure flattens out that rounded profile a little and gives me better grip and even at the low side of pressures I do not notice any tendency to squirm or fold, nor have I Hit my rim even when bombing through rock gardens

    QUOTE=leeboh;13639684]I run a dhf 2.5 on a 30 mm rim, works well ,great grip, 26 psi or so tubeless. NE rocks and roots.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by RAG2; 04-25-2018 at 09:07 PM.

  49. #49
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    Pic ofDHR2 2.4 cut to open channel. Anyways,on my Rim the 2.4 looked a lot closer to the 2.3 -D HF then in between the 2.3 and 2.5 DHF. So I got the calipers out and measured. The 2.4 DHR2 casing was 2.3 and tread was 2.27 exactly...but on the 2.5DHF the casing was 2.45 and the tread was a whopping 2.59"...darn near a legitimate 2.6". It's gonna be hard to put anything else up front unlessni really want to roll light/fast.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DHF profile and rim width feedback-20180425_135920.jpg  

    Last edited by RAG2; 05-05-2018 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Remeasured

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    For the front...on same 30mm ID, I have been running anywhere between 17 and 22PSI. Depending on conditions. But I am a light rider. For me a little lower pressure flattens out that rounded profile a little and gives me better grip and even at the low side of pressures I do not notice any tendency to squirm or fold, nor have I Hit my rim even when bombing through rock gardens
    Unless you're running the DH 2 ply casing, there is no way to avoid squirming if stuffing your bike into corners at speed; need to run a minimum of 22-23 psi no matter how light you are. The grip will not suffer IF you learn to really lay the bike over aggressively like the tires were designed to do. At slow to moderate speeds then yeah, will give a smoother ride but I just can't live with that trade-off. Try your cut DHR2 at 22 psi and let us know what you think.

    Cheers,

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

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    Disappointing. I read measured the 2 point for DHR and it comes in under 2.3" on both the tread and casing with. I sure had hoped it would feel the middle ground between the 2.3 and 2.5 DHF but does not seem to be the case. Seems no bigger than the 2.3 -DHF, although i see a slighly more rounded tread profile, so thats good dor those with wider rims.

  52. #52
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    My 2.4 DHR2 is definitely wider than my 2.3 DHF (which does in fact measure 2.3" with vernier calipers). I feel like I'm the only person whose Maxxis tires always measure out to the claimed size.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    My 2.4 DHR2 is definitely wider than my 2.3 DHF (which does in fact measure 2.3" with vernier calipers). I feel like I'm the only person whose Maxxis tires always measure out to the claimed size.
    Well, I was stoked my 2.5 DHF WT measured larger than advertised, but man, I'm wondering if I've got a mislabeled tire on my hands. My rear tire is a 2.3 Aggressor, and it measures wider than this 2.4 DHR WT, in both casing and nobs. I would send it back, but I already opened up the channel with dykes.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Well, I was stoked my 2.5 DHF WT measured larger than advertised, but man, I'm wondering if I've got a mislabeled tire on my hands. My rear tire is a 2.3 Aggressor, and it measures wider than this 2.4 DHR WT, in both casing and nobs. I would send it back, but I already opened up the channel with dykes.
    2.4 is new? Perhaps the casing has yet to stretch. I know I see them grow a little after breaking in...

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    Yes, it's new. Measuring 2.28" on the casing. I would post a picture but I can't from my mobile for some reason. Although I realized I measured the skinnier set of knobs previously, the wider knobs measured 2.37 on the calipers. Still, I was a little disappointed to see the 2.4" is a lot closer to the 2.3" than it is the 2.5" offerings from maxxis. But no free lunch, I suppose it would be heavier if it was closer in size to the 2.5" . So I am just gonna roll and worry about other things like which bike to buy next, ha.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Yes, it's new. Measuring 2.28" on the casing. I would post a picture but I can't from my mobile for some reason. Although I realized I measured the skinnier set of knobs previously, the wider knobs measured 2.37 on the calipers. Still, I was a little disappointed to see the 2.4" is a lot closer to the 2.3" than it is the 2.5" offerings from maxxis. But no free lunch, I suppose it would be heavier if it was closer in size to the 2.5" . So I am just gonna roll and worry about other things like which bike to buy next, ha.
    Almost every maxxis tire I've had has stretched.

  57. #57
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    I am late to the thread - but I have a similar dilemma. I went from Magic Mary + Rock Razor on 23mm ID rims to 2.5WT DHFs front and rear on 30mm ID rims.

    I have a love/hate relationship with the DHFs - they are awesone on the DH and gnarly rocks - no lack of grip for sure. But I cannot get used to the heft compared to my last setup when riding trails. In f act I will go so far as to say they killed the lively feel of my Transition Patrol.

    So, easy to fix - I want to go either back to MM+RR Or, go with 2.3 DHFs.
    But I just bought 30mm ID wheels and I feel like it may have been a waste given I do not think I like my tires that big.

    I used to love round tires with small knobs and big casings but after the MM I fell in love with the hard cornering style that the Patrol and those tires taught me. So now I want big cornering knobs, a fairly big casing (true 2.3-2.4), and light weight. IMO the MM+RR has that sweet spot nailed and I cannot find another tire that hits it as well.
    Sure they may be expensive and not wear well, but man are those fun fast tires.

    Anyone try 2.3 DHFs or MM+RR 2.35s on a 30mm ID rim?

    Anyone want to buy/trade 2.5WT DHFs with only a couple of rides on them? For MM+RR or 2.3 DHFs?

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    I have 30mm ID, and I have the 2.3 DHF mounted right now (but it's coming off), and the 2.35 RR in the rear. The problem I have with the rock razor is that I have torched the tire and got 2 flats in just 2 rides, and torn off knobs. The new addix. So I guess it depends on where you ride and how you ride as to whether or not that tire will work. No free lunch… it's light and big volume which is obviously why the durability is not there. I'm gonna put the 2.3 aggressor back on... You should try this tire if you have not already.

    I have not tried the 2.5 DHF in the back but I would guess it would be extremely slow if any amount of peddling was involved.Upfront, I bet a magic Mary would be just fine but I have not tried because I'm in SoCal conditions where DHF reigns. I think ive settled on the 2.5 DHF for enduro-style work and the 2.4 DHR for aggressive trail work. The 2.3 DHF is just too skinny...After the 2.5, I just can't go baxk.

    If you can see from the side-by-side picture, though hard to tell, the 2.4 DHR (the fresh/new tire) is just a little bigger than the 2.3 -DHF, the knobs are about 10% bigger as well, and profile is slightly less square. I'd want 25-26mm ID wheels for that 2.3 DHF.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DHF profile and rim width feedback-20180506_142101.jpg  

    DHF profile and rim width feedback-20180506_142043.jpg  


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    Ride report here: I've had a few outings on the cut/modified DHR2 2.4 WT (in 3c mounted on 30ID wheels) in the front. I'm liking it. Seems to slot right between the 2.3 and 2.5 DHF in cornering traction. And while not measured, surely there's a little more braking power too with the bigger/longer gaps in center tread. Though I do have slight concern this also creates more rolling resistance (you can really hear it hum on hard pack compared to DHF), so this might negate some of the efficiency savings when dropping down from a DHF 2.5WT. But the profile is better on my rims. If they made a 2.4 DHF (and they should given the popularity), that's what I'd run.

  60. #60
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    A 2.4 DHF would be nice, as would a 2.4 Agressor.

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    Good point! Best all-around Front and Rear tires made IMO...certainly justifies a couple more size options.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Good point! Best all-around Front and Rear tires made IMO...certainly justifies a couple more size options.
    I like my 2.4 DHR2's but I'd like to run an Aggressor on the rear during the summer. Right now I either have to run the noticeably narrower 2.3 or run the 2.5 which would be wider than my front tire.

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    I have a DHR II 2.4 on a 30mm ID rim and it's dope

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    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post
    I have a DHR II 2.4 on a 30mm ID rim and it's dope
    Are you running front and rear?

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Are you running front and rear?
    Yup. I honestly have no complaints. Traction is wonderful! I do throw a 2.35 Forekaster on the rear when doing longer rides in less technical terrain. That being said... I just did PMBAR last weekend on the DHR II setup, and never found myself wanting different tires.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post
    Yup. I honestly have no complaints. Traction is wonderful! I do throw a 2.35 Forekaster on the rear when doing longer rides in less technical terrain. That being said... I just did PMBAR last weekend on the DHR II setup, and never found myself wanting different tires.
    Yeah, funny, I just started running the Forekaster 2.35 in the rear for more trail-oriented days...I like it, though climbing traction suffers comparatively, and of course corning traction.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Yeah, funny, I just started running the Forekaster 2.35 in the rear for more trail-oriented days...I like it, though climbing traction suffers comparatively, and of course corning traction.
    It works!

    Need a profile pic of the 2.4 DHR II? I could take one after work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I run HRII 2.3 in back and a DHF 2.5 in front on I9 trail 245s (24.5 Internal Diameter). They fit and run perfectly. I mounted them before I bought the wheel/tire combo. Also tried on some old Arch Ex (about 24.5 external) and they were rounded off. Tried them on 30mm Specialized Rovals with 30mm, and they worked great too. On both rims, the DHF was neither too round or too square. On 40mm wheels they were awful. the 40mm Raceface (not worth selling) and the trail 245s and purchased We Are One Agents with a 30mm internal diameter running 2.8 Ikon and Rekons. Even though the Rovals were 30mm ID too, the tires seem to fit even better on the We Are Ones. Granted the Ikon and Rekon come in a bit less than 2.8, but having run these same tires on 40mm rims, they were way to square. I think 30-35 is the sweet spot for 2.8s and 24-30 works for 2.5s. If I wanted to run 3.0 tires, I'll use my 40mm rims, but not planning on running a tire that big. For a 29er, I feel like my 2.3/2.5 setup is about perfect for most conditions. On my Hightower, the Ikon and Rekon in 2.8 give extra float without being too big. I still keep up with the pack.

    I'd recommend that anyone thinking about this go to a shop and compare.

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    Thank you. but actually I already picked on up and mounted. For me, it has the perfect provide on my Roval SL Fatties (30mm ID). the 2.5" DHF isn't bad, though slightly rounded.
    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post
    It works!

    Need a profile pic of the 2.4 DHR II? I could take one after work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Despite my initial disappointment with the size of the 2.4 DHR2 WT, I've got 7 or 8 good rides with it on the front, and I'm really liking this tire. Certainly gonna be my go-to all-around trail tire...fast, tough, relatively light and corners on rails. I'll say its more of a 2.35 size whereas the 2.5 DHF WT is more of a 2.55 which will favor DH prominent days for me.

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