Aggressive hardtail geometry?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Aggressive hardtail geometry?

    I have always been a FS 29er guy but would like a HT I can cruise around on the local dirt track w/ my brothers kid. I am 6'4" and didn't like any of the big wheeled BMX bikes. I figure I can make due w/ an aggressive HT in either a 27.5 or 29 flavor. What's the deal w/ the super slack HT angles? I was primarily looking @ Ragley bikes from Chainreaction Cycles - Marley or Big Al. Thanks.

    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod176527

    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod176554

  2. #2
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    Slacker HTA makes more sense on a hardtail as it'll only get steeper as the fork sags and compresses.

  3. #3
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    I have a Ragley Piglet, Just and outstanding ride quality and the geo is spot on. It is so much fun that I don't even ride a FS anymore.

  4. #4
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    You'll generally find the HTA and STA are slacker than comparable FS because, as DavidR said, the fork sags and steepens everything up.

    I myself prefer not so slack geo for general trail riding and have played around with setting up my Paradox's with different lengths forks to change geo and have settled on liking a HTA of about 66.5*, on my rigid where I don't have to worry about the angles steepening due to fork travel, I prefer a HTA of about 67.5-68*.

    If you've not done the HT thing before and are accustomed to FS, I'd highly recommend you go steel instead of alu and make sure whatever frame it is, can take at least 2.8" B+ tyres to help take the edge off.
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  5. #5
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    Check out my extensive Pipedream Moxie thread in this forum. Long, slack (65°) and low, it's an amazing hardtail. On our ride yesterday I had no problem keeping up with my buddies on Warden, Spartan, Altitude, and Troy FS bikes. A few trails I was the fastest. I do not feel handicapped or held back on the majority of trails.
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  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=LyNx;14045354

    If you've not done the HT thing before and are accustomed to FS, I'd highly recommend you go steel instead of alu and make sure whatever frame it is, can take at least 2.8" B+ tyres to help take the edge off.[/QUOTE]


    So modern alloy is still "harsh"? What's the weight difference between steel and alloy in the same size model?

  7. #7
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    What about a dirt jumper if you are just on a local dirt track? I am assuming that is either a BMX race track or pump track.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    So modern alloy is still "harsh"? What's the weight difference between steel and alloy in the same size model?
    Yes, low end aluminum frames will ride more harshly than a butted chromoly frame. Weight difference (all things equal) will be around a pound. Good quality steel frames can weigh less than cheap aluminum.

    The weight thing is not a concern. The difference in ride quality is well worth it even if there is a small weight penalty.

    For example: a hardtail bike frame weighs 4-6 lbs, the rest of the bike weighs 20 lbs, so the components account for the majority of the weight.
    Rigid SS 29er
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  9. #9
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    Don't know what the weight difference is and like OneSpeed said, that can vary between a low end alu and higher end steel so it's not much. As 1S said, the slight weight difference is negligible, but the ride characteristics, can be hugely different, from a bit nicer to a whole different sort of smooth feeling - one like landing a sack of bricks, the other like landing a good short travel FS almost.

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    So modern alloy is still "harsh"? What's the weight difference between steel and alloy in the same size model?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    What about a dirt jumper if you are just on a local dirt track? I am assuming that is either a BMX race track or pump track.

    DJ's too appear too small on paper. I am primarily concerned about reach and of the DJ's I came across about as big as they get would average a medium size.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yes, low end aluminum frames will ride more harshly than a butted chromoly frame. Weight difference (all things equal) will be around a pound. Good quality steel frames can weigh less than cheap aluminum.

    The weight thing is not a concern. The difference in ride quality is well worth it even if there is a small weight penalty.

    For example: a hardtail bike frame weighs 4-6 lbs, the rest of the bike weighs 20 lbs, so the components account for the majority of the weight.
    Good to know. My brother is making the purchase and his original intention was to purchase a big wheeled BMX bike which run $500-800. After we made a few runs on the local track we decided a bigger ride was needed and that probably meant more $. CRC has descent deals on the Ragley's. Still undecided if we should go 27.5" or 29"? I am 100% a 29er regular MTB riding.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    So modern alloy is still "harsh"? What's the weight difference between steel and alloy in the same size model?
    Alu alloy is what it is. It can tend to being a bit harsh. Absolutely especially true if you're looking at cheap alloy. Higher quality alu bikes are designed better to address the harshness, but it's still there to a degree. The difference does get pretty subtle, though. Naming a specific bike, I thought the Santa Cruz Chameleon rode quite well when I took one out for a demo ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yes, low end aluminum frames will ride more harshly than a butted chromoly frame. Weight difference (all things equal) will be around a pound. Good quality steel frames can weigh less than cheap aluminum.

    The weight thing is not a concern. The difference in ride quality is well worth it even if there is a small weight penalty.

    For example: a hardtail bike frame weighs 4-6 lbs, the rest of the bike weighs 20 lbs, so the components account for the majority of the weight.
    Funny. I weighed my Pedalhead when I finished the build and came up at over 31lbs.

    I didn't cheap out on it, either. But I also specifically didn't build a weight weenie xc bike. The brakes, especially, are pretty porky (1.5lbs per wheel).

    Still, it definitely rides lighter than it is. The ride quality is most excellent. There are times where it's not especially obvious that I'm on a hardtail. Other times it is, but usually not in a bad way.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    DJ's too appear too small on paper. I am primarily concerned about reach and of the DJ's I came across about as big as they get would average a medium size.
    I mean I am 6'2" and ride a 21in top tube 20" BMX and find it comfortable. If you get higher rise bars, I have found it helps a lot.

    I'd say try to find someone who will let you get on one and cruise around on it. IMO for what you are looking to do it seems like it would make much more sense and be a decent amount cheaper. Skip the big wheeled BMXs those are generally just made for wheelies and cruising.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  14. #14
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    These two NS Eccentrics are the same except for the steel or aluminum frames and tires. Aluminum 29.76 lbs. Steel 30.64 Lbs.
    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod172423
    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod172408

    TIres on the steel are WTB Trail Boss 2 29x2.4 foldable bead TCS Light/Fast Rolling. 917g each. 4.04 lbs total.

    Aluminum gets the Maxxis Aggressor Exo/Tr 29x2.5" WT 980g each. 4.32 lbs.


    So subtract 0.28 lb more for tire differences. Just over 1.1 lbs. total difference.

  15. #15
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    Keen: I'm 6'3" and recently build a DJer. (my first 26" wheel'd bike) You can read my comments on frame Reach in this recent conversation. https://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/...s-1100947.html
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I mean I am 6'2" and ride a 21in top tube 20" BMX and find it comfortable. If you get higher rise bars, I have found it helps a lot.

    I'd say try to find someone who will let you get on one and cruise around on it. IMO for what you are looking to do it seems like it would make much more sense and be a decent amount cheaper. Skip the big wheeled BMXs those are generally just made for wheelies and cruising.
    My plan is to make my rounds @ the BMX track and if I feel adventurous let my tires leave the earth. I have seen a few riders past 6' on BMX bikes but they are skilled riders w/ the desire to have @ it.

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