Is 27.5 going the way of the 26 - Page 2- Mtbr.com
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  1. #201
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    And the trend of the dying 27.5” wheel size continues on thru 2019....

    Bye bye 27.5”, it was interesting

    “The mountain bike category also showed a little spark in March... Subcategories of the mountain bike showed the continued shift from 27.5 full-suspension to 29-inch models.”

    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...s#.XNbqbyRlChA

  2. #202
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    Havent seen any new release in 2019 except maybe E-bike or kid bikes. They also fooled us with Plus sizes.

  3. #203
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    I feel bad for all the DH riders if they have to settle for a 29 or 26. 27.5 seems like the perfect balance for that discipline.

  4. #204
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    Maybe bike sales are slumping because we're tired of standards constantly changing and the idiotic naming of concepts that have been done 20 years ago, like downcountry and mulletbikes.
    Last edited by Vader; 05-11-2019 at 01:27 PM.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  5. #205
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    Ya'll sure like freaking out and complaining.

  6. #206
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    Pfft you guys are all outdated!
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    And the trend of the dying 27.5” wheel size continues on thru 2019....

    Bye bye 27.5”, it was interesting

    No kidding ! I've got the proof too.
    "They" are trying to pass 29 off as 27.5 plus. Just measure 'em and you'll see.

    That ol 29'r magic must have sumpthin to it if I can sustain on it's close-cousin.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeners View Post
    Worst thread of the year.
    Which year? Thread began Jan of 2018.

    2018 people didn’t want to hear/believe it. 2019 there is no denying it.

  9. #209
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    Good thing I picked up a new 27.5 last week... in before the bin

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    Which year? Thread began Jan of 2018.

    2018 people didn’t want to hear/believe it. 2019 there is no denying it.
    Both. I don't really understand what the big deal is. Unless you are purchasing a new bike every 6 months it's a non-issue. If anyone is worried about sizes disappearing, don't. With the ever increasing availability in the used bike market - being able to attain a newer frame with whatever size wheel is preferred isn't a problem.

    Besides - Just like anything else that I like, industry conspiracy doesn't control my enjoyment or what I choose to purchase. If you like 27.5, you will find a way to have it. I have five bikes. Two are 26", and three (2016 or newer) came 27.5" or have been converted to 27.5". I have no issues with parts availability for either of them.

    So, albeit 27.5 non-plus "dying" being quasi-real news... it's not really impactful enough to warrant three pages of complaints IMHO. There are two choices 1) give in to the direction of the industry or 2) find a way to ride whatever size you want.

    /thread

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    Which year? Thread began Jan of 2018.

    2018 people didn’t want to hear/believe it. 2019 there is no denying it.
    That’s really funny that this thread actually started well over a year ago. The 27.5” fad perfectly fits the definition of what we call in the retail industry a “boom splat”. Really crazy popular for a short time, and then dead. If you jump on the boom and get out before the splat then your doing great. It is really tough for the manufactures and shops that where late to the game, missed the initial boom, and are then stuck with product they have a hard time selling and need to discount to move cuttting into their profits even more.

    Is 27.5 going the way of the 26-a2e373ba-6fa4-4c4e-8b0e-22582d800c87.jpg
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    Good thing I picked up a new 27.5 last week... in before the bin
    WTF were you thinking? It's as if you don't place any value on all the useless interneter speculation here.


  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    And the trend of the dying 27.5” wheel size continues on thru 2019....

    Bye bye 27.5”, it was interesting

    “The mountain bike category also showed a little spark in March... Subcategories of the mountain bike showed the continued shift from 27.5 full-suspension to 29-inch models.”

    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...s#.XNbqbyRlChA
    I think it is a bit premature to declare it is “dying” and not simply a correction from the over the top hype.

    Didn't the same thing happen to fat bikes? They boomed, busted, and now seem to have reached more of a steady state. And what about plus: while 3.0 tires are still declining, 2.8 appears to be sticking around.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    Good thing I picked up a new 27.5 last week... in before the bin
    lol - You probably just felt sorry for the last of the litter like the dog nobody picked.

    I got in on the 27'5 omnishambles a few years ago. I'm sure they were obsolete, dying or past date-code even then. Mine still looks at me with those big puppy eyes. Bikes for the trail and the longer haul trips, camping or bikepacker was the box I checked and those bikers, reviewers and long trippers covering all parts of the globe had enough good to say about the traits I was interested in. Yet I have no doubt some companies offer or focus more on bikes by type and use than others and it could very well seem slim pickin's for the shopper that doesn't know where to look.

    It could be emotion and drama attached to the prospect of sales ebb and flow or regional preferences to bike types, tires, width etc.... Something seems to ignite an intolerance whereas we shouldn't have so many choices Gol Darn-it !
    Not everyone cares that the type of bike they like or chose is not leading the pack or the top seller in sales figures and growth - if it isn't. The care and attention to finding the right bike is more than enough reward for most people. I'd hope all find that result.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  15. #215
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    If I buy a 27.5, it is gaurenteed to become obsolete. I tend to buy things right before they become completely outdated. High end steel bikes before the aluminum rush, HL bikes before VPP and Dw links, high end 26" bike before 27 and 29" bikes. My track record is pretty darn good (in a pathetic sort of way).
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  16. #216
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    I just purchased my wife a high dollar 27.5" trail bike even though I do believe they are going to have much lower resale value in the future than 29ers.
    I did it because she is 5'3" and I feel 27.5" just provides a better fit at her size.

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  17. #217
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    Most 2019 releases actually happened in the last few months of 2018 and most releases you actually see in 2019 will be in the 2nd half and called 2020. Sometimes you see some prototypes at sea otter, but that's mostly components and gear.

  18. #218
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    I see all humans that are alive dying out in the next century. I blame the human industry, so going to wait til the next wave to invest in life.

  19. #219
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    27.5 abbreviated;

    Whycantwealljustgetalong
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  20. #220
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    I just bought a 27.5 bike..... should I sell it?
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowMaybesGo View Post
    I just bought a 27.5 bike..... should I sell it?
    Who is going to buy it??
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  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Who is going to buy it??
    Exactly..... I am pretty much screwed. What a waste of money.
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  23. #223
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    These 'concerns' remind of me of a favorite recent post. One concerned with resale value of 27.5 versus ….

    Feeling violated putting that in perspective. Just imagine a bike isn't worth .43 cents on the dollar but actually .38 !
    I'm not forgetting to thank my bike storage area though. The reason some have N+ xx is -


    RESALE VALUE !! Mine are locked up at the Time Share

    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  24. #224
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    Looking forward to building my retro v3 5010...
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  25. #225
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    27.5 is so perfect and dialed that there's no new gear to come out. 29ers are still clunky and wonky, so every year we get a new revelation in design to make them handle like anything besides a freight train, so all the "new" goes to the clown shoes.


  26. #226
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    ^

    That one right there.

    Yep, close the thread !
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  27. #227
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    I buy all my bikes for resale value. I don't even ride them.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeners View Post
    I buy all my bikes for resale value. I don't even ride them.
    Lol...my friends always ask me why I cut my fork steerer so short. The first thing they mention is resale. I just tell them that I'm not saving the fork for whomever may buy my fork who knows when.

  29. #229
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    I personally cut my new forks so short that they don't even fit on my bike. Resale be damned!

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    27.5 is so perfect and dialed that there's no new gear to come out. 29ers are still clunky and wonky, so every year we get a new revelation in design to make them handle like anything besides a freight train, so all the "new" goes to the clown shoes.

    You nailed it. The industry is so desperate for something "new", mullet bikes are the thing.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  31. #231
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    Tall people have seized control of the mtb industry and are taking their revenge for years of poorly fitting bikes. Suck it all of you who fit comfortably on a Medium frame with medium wheels.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    You nailed it. The industry is so desperate for something "new", mullet bikes are the thing.
    Next year the mullet bikes will be new and improved, with a more nimble, smaller 27.5 wheel installed up front too!

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeners View Post
    I buy all my bikes for resale value. I don't even ride them.
    If you are careful, you can get two nice size sets of wind chimes out of a bike. Way more worth than most bikes !
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    If you are careful, you can get two nice size sets of wind chimes out of a bike. Way more worth than most bikes !
    Not if I haven't taken the bikes out of the box yet. RESALE baby.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by x-rated View Post
    Havent seen any new release in 2019 except maybe E-bike or kid bikes. They also fooled us with Plus sizes.
    Don't say that in the plus bike forum. Some of those guys believe 2.35 will soon be extinct.

  36. #236
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    27.5 and 29 will be gone next year. It's all about metric wheel sizes from 500mm to 700mm in 25mm increments.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Next year the mullet bikes will be new and improved, with a more nimble, smaller 27.5 wheel installed up front too!
    ...and it will have a 26 in the rear. #26aintdead #superflickable

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    27.5 and 29 will be gone next year. It's all about metric wheel sizes from 500mm to 700mm in 25mm increments.
    Don't joke. It worked to trick people with Shocks....
    Changing bushing overlap has nothing to do with what system of measure you use.
    What may have helped however is breaking free from the old standard sizes

    Actually if you look at what design engineers do. They use the system that is in place in their work place (often dictated by what country they are in). For example here in Australia when items are made to 'Inch' standard. They are actually designed in Metric millimetres. An example of this is drill bits. A 3/8" drill bit is designed and made to 9.525mm. Then it is just labeled 3/8". This is because it is what they know, and also what the machinery used to produce the tool uses.

    PS. Don't try and correct me by saying that most modern machinery can switch between mm and inch in the click of a button. It is still done the way I said.

  39. #239
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    Read somewhere development of a new frame takes 2 years. In summer 2018 there was an aprubt stop on 650b releases. How come the vendors knew already in 2016 there will be no more 650B ? In 2016 it was quiet popular, for Enduro and DH a lot more than 29er.

    EVERYTHING WAS PLANED!

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by x-rated View Post
    EVERYTHING WAS PLANED!
    You cracked the case! I wish we were all still riding 26ers, who's idea was it to change that?

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by x-rated View Post
    Read somewhere development of a new frame takes 2 years. In summer 2018 there was an aprubt stop on 650b releases. How come the vendors knew already in 2016 there will be no more 650B ? In 2016 it was quiet popular, for Enduro and DH a lot more than 29er.

    EVERYTHING WAS PLANED!
    Wut. There's 2019 650b bikes and new model tires all over the place. The new 2020 model 650b bikes will be out soon too.

  42. #242
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    I like 29ers, but I truly believe that 27.5"s are better for small and medium sized riders.
    Which is why I just bought my wife a 27.5" bike.
    Even though my 29er has lightweight carbon fiber wheels and decent rolling tires, it's amazing how much quicker the 27.5" starts and stops when I ride my wife's bike around.

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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I like 29ers, but I truly believe that 27.5"s are better for small and medium sized riders.
    Which is why I just bought my wife a 27.5" bike.
    Even though my 29er has lightweight carbon fiber wheels and decent rolling tires, it's amazing how much quicker the 27.5" starts and stops when I ride my wife's bike around.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    How does SHE like her new bike ?

    I've didn't over obsess at the time of purchase and had a few years of reading and kicking around the idea of getting a 'modern' bike with disc brakes! The fact that my then-current bike was an 2002 26'r should have made it a baffling decision in the era of battling wheel sizes to consider what was next.
    It didn't.

    Somehow after reading of new wheel sizes , plus tires , and mtn bike designations of Eight + various disciplines, the more I read of trail bikes, longer travel trips, bike camping or bike packer plans, the more I felt like that fit was my calling. I wasn't ripping up and down trails, doing big hill climbs or looking for big drops or Knievel antics. Just never my thing. Comfort, scenic pace rides and one that was a good pick for an everyday bike.
    Shopping local in 2016-17, the adventure bikes I considered all seemed to have similar traits so in the end, my pick was the bike, not the tire size.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by x-rated View Post

    EVERYTHING WAS PLANED!
    Do you mean that they planed down a 29er to make 650B?
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  45. #245
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    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Looks interesting! Am tempted to buy it, but $43 feels a bit steep.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    Looks interesting! Am tempted to buy it, but $43 feels a bit steep.
    Sorry, I have it.

    Here is the abstract:

    "The purpose of this study was to determine the influence of different wheel size diameters on indicators of cross-country mountain bike time trial performance. Nine competitive male mountain bikers (age 34.7 ± 10.7 years; stature 177.7 ± 5.6 cm; body mass 73.2 ± 8.6 kg) performed 1 lap of a 3.48 km mountain bike (MTB) course as fast as possible on 26′′, 27.5′′ and 29′′ wheeled MTB. Time (s), mean power (W), cadence (revs · min−1) and velocity (km · h−1) were recorded for the whole lap and during ascent and descent sections. One-way repeated measure ANOVA was used to determine significant differences. Results revealed no significant main effects for any variables by wheel size during all trials, with the exception of cadence during the descent (F(2, 16) = 8.96; P = .002; P2 = .53). Post hoc comparisons revealed differences lay between the 26′′ and 29′′ wheels (P = .02). The findings indicate that wheel size does not significantly influence performance during cross-country when ridden by trained mountain bikers, and that wheel choice is likely due to personal choice or sponsorship commitments."

    Big finding is that not much difference but 29 appears faster but 27.5 is actually the slowest.


    edit. I think it is the publication based upon this Bikeradar study:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxfrykeSNCE
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  48. #248
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    Depends on the terrain. Cross country trail could could mean number of things.
    If they want the results to show little difference between sizes they will test on a tame trail.

    On rocky tech 26 will be slowest there is no getting around it sorry that girl was put to bed long ago.

    Go get something with 20" wheels if it doesn't matter let me know how that works out.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post

    On rocky tech 26 will be slowest there is no getting around it sorry that girl was put to bed long ago.
    Yeah, I don't buy that for a second. I do believe the book is closed on the 26" bike but also believe people are fools for buying a 27.5" bike over a 29" bike.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yeah, I don't buy that for a second. I do believe the book is closed on the 26" bike but also believe people are fools for buying a 27.5" bike over a 29" bike.
    Calling people fools for wanting a 27.5 over 29er is a bit harsh.

    I’ve begun testing 27.5 bikes, after being on 29ers since 2012, and have enjoyed the two I’ve ridden so far. A bike I tested recently was a Santa Cruz 5010 and I realized that Ive missed the short chainstays and lower stack height of a smaller wheeled bike, not to mention the perceived quicker acceleration. I’ll continue to use my rigid 29er SS but for FS I think I’ll be moving to 27.5.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post
    Depends on the terrain. Cross country trail could could mean number of things.
    If they want the results to show little difference between sizes they will test on a tame trail.

    On rocky tech 26 will be slowest there is no getting around it sorry that girl was put to bed long ago.

    Go get something with 20" wheels if it doesn't matter let me know how that works out.
    Speed is not the be-all and end-all for everyone everywhere.

    Go get trialsy / jumpy with 29" wheels and see how that works out.
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  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Speed is not the be-all and end-all for everyone everywhere.

    Go get trialsy / jumpy with 29" wheels and see how that works out.
    Lol that train is never late start talking about trail performance and someone will bring up slope style and trials.
    I ride trails I'm pretty sure most here ride trails. My trails are rocky rooty and have a fair amount of pedaling involved. I've rode 26 27.5 back to back and I know which works best for my conditions.

    I like to go fast and flow the smaller wheels make it harder to do that in my conditions.

    I don't have a 29er but I do have a 27.5 +/29er frame I'm going to build up for an xc race coming up. I'm going to train on it in both wheel sizes to see for myself fast vs fun.

    Also there are probably some slopestyle and trials forums you could debate wheel size in that will be more relevant.

    These are mtb forums after all.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post
    Lol that train is never late start talking about trail performance and someone will bring up slope style and trials.
    I ride trails I'm pretty sure most here ride trails. My trails are rocky rooty and have a fair amount of pedaling involved. I've rode 26 27.5 back to back and I know which works best for my conditions.

    I like to go fast and flow the smaller wheels make it harder to do that in my conditions.

    I don't have a 29er but I do have a 27.5 +/29er frame I'm going to build up for an xc race coming up. I'm going to train on it in both wheel sizes to see for myself fast vs fun.

    Also there are probably some slopestyle and trials forums you could debate wheel size in that will be more relevant.

    These are mtb forums after all.
    Slopestyle is mountain biking.

    Plenty of freeriders prefer 26in. There is a reason dirt jumpers are still on 26in and BMX is 20in. Small wheels are more fun to throw around IMO. 29in is faster. Depends on which way you get your kicks.
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  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGrr View Post
    Calling people fools for wanting a 27.5 over 29er is a bit harsh.

    I’ve begun testing 27.5 bikes, after being on 29ers since 2012, and have enjoyed the two I’ve ridden so far. A bike I tested recently was a Santa Cruz 5010 and I realized that Ive missed the short chainstays and lower stack height of a smaller wheeled bike, not to mention the perceived quicker acceleration. I’ll continue to use my rigid 29er SS but for FS I think I’ll be moving to 27.5.
    Yeah, you are right, that language is too harsh. I personally do not find a big benefit of 27.5 over 26.0 and I can't seem to find an article showing any data showing a benefit. To that end, we were all duped. However, that does not mean that 26 is better than 27.5 The big benefit of 27.5 is 27.5+, which may be better.

    I also think these studies that used 2.3 inch tires on narrow rims are also less relevant today and have lots of flaws. For example, the one study weighted the 26 and 27.5 bikes to make them weight the same as the 29. That takes away a benefit of the smaller wheeled bikes! Also, they did not publish the weights of the tires, which at that time may have really worked against 27.5 as good tires were harder to come by then.

    The other issue is that these are poor studies. That is, every study should be powered in a way to answer a question. You should know what you need to see, in terms of change, based upon your sample size. Disappointing.
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  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yeah, I don't buy that for a second. I do believe the book is closed on the 26" bike but also believe people are fools for buying a 27.5" bike over a 29" bike.
    Your opinion is contemptuous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Depends on which way you get your kicks.
    Yup.
    I'm all over the place as far as wheel sizes go myself; different bikes for different moods. As far as what's fastest, that's still almost all about the rider, particularly on technical trails. The nastier the trail, the less wheel size matters and the more skill comes into play. I've seen my kid pass tons of people on high end carbon 29ers on a 24" pig of a bike, simply because he's a better bike handler. Rode just last week with some friends, 2 guys on decent 275+ bikes, 2 guys on really nice, brand new 29ers and one dude on a rigid 26" Mongoose from the 80s with friction shifters and U-brakes. Guess who was fastest?
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  57. #257
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    Some people measure fun with a stopwatch... not me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yup.
    I'm all over the place as far as wheel sizes go myself; different bikes for different moods. As far as what's fastest, that's still almost all about the rider, particularly on technical trails. The nastier the trail, the less wheel size matters and the more skill comes into play. I've seen my kid pass tons of people on high end carbon 29ers on a 24" pig of a bike, simply because he's a better bike handler. Rode just last week with some friends, 2 guys on decent 275+ bikes, 2 guys on really nice, brand new 29ers and one dude on a rigid 26" Mongoose from the 80s with friction shifters and U-brakes. Guess who was fastest?
    The fittest one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The fittest one?
    Winner!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post
    Lol that train is never late start talking about trail performance and someone will bring up slope style and trials.
    I ride trails I'm pretty sure most here ride trails. My trails are rocky rooty and have a fair amount of pedaling involved. I've rode 26 27.5 back to back and I know which works best for my conditions.

    I like to go fast and flow the smaller wheels make it harder to do that in my conditions.

    I don't have a 29er but I do have a 27.5 +/29er frame I'm going to build up for an xc race coming up. I'm going to train on it in both wheel sizes to see for myself fast vs fun.

    Also there are probably some slopestyle and trials forums you could debate wheel size in that will be more relevant.

    These are mtb forums after all.
    I mostly ride freeride MTB trails. While not slopestyle or trials, it's probably more similar to those than plain old XC riding. (Both are definitely MTB as well.)

    Spoiler alert on your 27.5+/29 experiment - 27.5+ is just a slower 29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The other issue is that these are poor studies. That is, every study should be powered in a way to answer a question. You should know what you need to see, in terms of change, based upon your sample size. Disappointing.
    When I start questioning the validity of a study on wheel size to help me make a purchasing decision I think I'll just find a new hobby. Bikes are for fun, ride a few and buy the one that was the most fun. I rode 29s for five years, now I'm having way more fun on my 27.5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yup.
    I'm all over the place as far as wheel sizes go myself; different bikes for different moods. As far as what's fastest, that's still almost all about the rider, particularly on technical trails. The nastier the trail, the less wheel size matters and the more skill comes into play. I've seen my kid pass tons of people on high end carbon 29ers on a 24" pig of a bike, simply because he's a better bike handler. Rode just last week with some friends, 2 guys on decent 275+ bikes, 2 guys on really nice, brand new 29ers and one dude on a rigid 26" Mongoose from the 80s with friction shifters and U-brakes. Guess who was fastest?
    This argument gets old. Everyone here should be assuming that the most important MTB component is the rider. We are discussing bikes (specifically wheel sizes) not riders. While it is true that the rider is the most determinate piece of the equation, that doesn't make it null to discuss advantages in bikes.

    It's like if doctors were evaluating a couple treatments and kept saying 'well no matter what the healthiest person will always fair the best, regardless of treatment...' So? That doesn't make one iota of difference in the context of this discussion.

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    I don't get why people want some wheel sizes to disappear. More choice is a good thing. Not everyone wants the same thing out of mountain biking. 26in, 27.5, 27.5+, 29, 29+, fat tires are all valid tire choices and all valid uses.

    Although I guess you should pick a wheel size and be a dick about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Winner!
    Do I get a prize?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    This argument gets old.
    Kind of like people making silly blanket declarations about a part being "slow" or causing slowness?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Do I get a prize?
    I have some semi-petrified 26x3.0 Gazzaloddis for you.
    They're slower than shit though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I don't get why people want some wheel sizes to disappear. More choice is a good thing. Not everyone wants the same thing out of mountain biking. 26in, 27.5, 27.5+, 29, 29+, fat tires are all valid tire choices and all valid uses.

    Although I guess you should pick a wheel size and be a dick about it.
    Nobody wants wheel sizes to disappear but they are and not because of any logical reason. That is the issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Kind of like people making silly blanket declarations about a part being "slow" or causing slowness?
    Depends what part... 5" fat bike tires? Nope, that's an accurate statement.

    Again, we are just not discussing 'parts' we are discussing wheel size. All other things equal, either 26", 27.5" or 29" is faster. I don't believe a study has been done that definitively says which one, but it could be done - people just don't care enough to do it and marketing people are the worst scientists ever.

    There is nothing wrong with discussing which wheel size is faster, there is something wrong with acting like that's what matters to everyone or that you know the answer definitively without an actual academic study to back that up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nobody wants wheel sizes to disappear but they are and not because of any logical reason. That is the issue.
    Eh, it does seem like some people like to see something they decided wasn't right for them abandoned as obsolete... I think it's some kind of validation thing, but they're definitely out there (and in this thread judging by some of the old comments.)

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    This argument gets old. Everyone here should be assuming that the most important MTB component is the rider. We are discussing bikes (specifically wheel sizes) not riders. While it is true that the rider is the most determinate piece of the equation, that doesn't make it null to discuss advantages in bikes.

    It's like if doctors were evaluating a couple treatments and kept saying 'well no matter what the healthiest person will always fair the best, regardless of treatment...' So? That doesn't make one iota of difference in the context of this discussion.
    This.

    The rider is the most important component. But, the right tool for the job makes the job more fun. If I can ride the way I want better or more enjoyably on a long travel 29'er, that's the bike for me. Silly to say "eh, if you're good (or fit or fast or whatever...) you can ride any bike.

    Lol, a few years ago, I (quite graciously, IMO) let my brother ride my 6" travel bike and I rode my wife's old Zaskar from the early 2000's. Long fairly rough mostly downhill trail. I am easily one of the 2 "fastest" in the group of 6 I rode with that day. Did I keep up with the group? Sure, I was right there with them, and I could have gone faster. Did I have fun? Well, it's fun to ride with friends and family, sure. But that ride is mostly memorable to me for how fun it was not compared to the same ride on the Enduro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tystevens View Post
    This.

    The rider is the most important component. But, the right tool for the job makes the job more fun. If I can ride the way I want better or more enjoyably on a long travel 29'er, that's the bike for me. Silly to say "eh, if you're good (or fit or fast or whatever...) you can ride any bike.

    Lol, a few years ago, I (quite graciously, IMO) let my brother ride my 6" travel bike and I rode my wife's old Zaskar from the early 2000's. Long fairly rough mostly downhill trail. I am easily one of the 2 "fastest" in the group of 6 I rode with that day. Did I keep up with the group? Sure, I was right there with them, and I could have gone faster. Did I have fun? Well, it's fun to ride with friends and family, sure. But that ride is mostly memorable to me for how fun it was not compared to the same ride on the Enduro.
    I've got a buddy who hit a big slopestyle type line (ten foot drop, twenty-five foot creek gap, then a few ten to fifteen foot gap doubles including a moto-style kicker ramp) on a brakeless dirt jumper. The year before he hit it on a Fuel EX in flip flops. He did it a bunch of times both years and was having a lot of fun doing it... That does not mean they were the right equipment for the job.

    Getting away with something despite your gear does not change that it isn't the right gear.

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Eh, it does seem like some people like to see something they decided wasn't right for them abandoned as obsolete... I think it's some kind of validation thing, but they're definitely out there (and in this thread judging by some of the old comments.)
    Yeah you can see it in this thread. People joyful about 27.5 supposedly disappearing.
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  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    He did it a bunch of times both years and was having a lot of fun doing it... That does not mean they were the right equipment for the job.
    Actually, I'd say it does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually, I'd say it does.
    I knew you'd say that. Again, we have to separate the 'anything goes, it's all just for fun' mindset that we take out on the trail with us from the 'actually recommending the correct tool for the job' mindset we should have in the shop.

    Would you recommend I buy a Fuel EX or a brakeless dirt jumper to learn to ride that line on? Of course not.

    It's like with trail work. I can usually get done what I need to with what I have available, but sometimes I still wish I'd brought a different tool. I can chop roots with a McLeod but I'd rather use a Rogue Hoe... If all I've got is a McLeod then that's fine, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter which I choose when I'm standing in the garage deciding... If I know I'm gonna chop a lot of roots I take the Rogue Hoe.

    On a forum you are in the garage, not the trail. It matters. Kinda crazy that I have to spell this out... You seem to dislike a lot of gear discussions, choosing rather to say 'it doesn't matter, just go ride!' which is funny for someone on a forum as much as you are. Great attitude on the trail, not so much in the shop or on a forum.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Great attitude on the trail, not so much in the shop or on a forum.
    Well, the only place that actually counts is on the trail, since that's where 100% of actual mountain biking takes place.

    As a shop guy, obviously it's your job to pretend this or that widget is the greatest thing since sliced bread and try to keep people spending $$. But this forum isn't a shop either, so not every opinion must support the "The Industry" and it's marketing hype at all times. Anybody that's ridden a lot knows a big slice of it is overblown BS. I don't work at a shop, so I don't need to pretend online that 27.5" wheels are really all that much different than 26" wheels, for example, or that it's impossible to function without a dropper post, or that carbon is worth buying.
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  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Well, the only place that actually counts is on the trail, since that's where 100% of actual mountain biking takes place.

    As a shop guy, obviously it's your job to pretend this or that widget is the greatest thing since sliced bread and try to keep people spending $$. But this forum isn't a shop either, so not every opinion must support the "The Industry" and it's marketing hype at all times. Anybody that's ridden a lot knows a big slice of it is overblown BS. I don't work at a shop, so I don't need to pretend online that 27.5" wheels are really all that much different than 26" wheels, for example, or that it's impossible to function without a dropper post, or that carbon is worth buying.
    Are you just intentionally being obtuse? Serious question and not meant to offend... But I know you're more intelligent than what you're showing here.

    Am I just trying to sell Rogue Hoes when I say they're better for cutting roots than McCleods? Do you choose tools based on the job you're doing, or just grab whatever is close by and assume it'll be fine?

    If someone is standing in my shop and trying to hand me $3,000 for a bike are you telling me that I should say 'none of this really matters, just grab one and go.' I know the industry gets a little into the hype-machine, but you pulling to the polar opposite is equally stupid.

    (By the way I work four hours a week at a shop, trust me I'm not there to push products I don't believe in. I sell what I think will help the customer enjoy their rides, nothing more. I'm there because of my love of mountain biking, not my love of corporate profits.)

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Are you just intentionally being obtuse? Serious question and not meant to offend... But I know you're more intelligent than what you're showing here.

    Am I just trying to sell Rogue Hoes when I say they're better for cutting roots than McCleods? Do you choose tools based on the job you're doing, or just grab whatever is close by and assume it'll be fine?

    If someone is standing in my shop and trying to hand me $3,000 for a bike are you telling me that I should say 'none of this really matters, just grab one and go.'
    I've been building trails for ages and own neither a Rogue Hoe or a McCleod. Trails still come out fine, don't really care if a salesman tries to tell me I'm doing it all wrong unless I buy something from him.

    It's not that I'm saying none of it matters AT ALL, but none of it matters anywhere near as much as 'the industry' pretends (and many seem to believe) it does. I'm pretty sure you know that as well as I do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I don't get why people want some wheel sizes to disappear.
    cost saving, nothing else

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    My conspiracy theory is that 26" was killed off due to market saturation. Prices were pretty low and people were enjoying it, but perhaps got too used to such performance/quality at such a price point, not willing to pay full retail like $55+ on tires, or wheels, or frames. Enter folks paying $2500 for carbon wheels for their 29ers, saying, "it's the best upgrade you can make, and totally worth it!!!" XC segment was paying $$$$...

    Now 29ers are finally progressing into developing a solid foothold in the gravity sector. The industry seemingly was waiting for it to develop naturally, with reputable racers demanding it. Those that experimented with it before found that the lack of tires and suspension held them back.

    27.5 already had products developed for the entire range of disciplines, as it was seemingly an industry reset on 26. They touting the latest and greatest trends in R&D to get retailers on board, along with fears that 26 just wasn't selling, and therefore production was halted... that's what they say at least. I figure if they want 27.5 to go the way of 26, they'd make similar claims, making 29er and 27.5 versions of the same thing, and report that 29 far outsold 27.5.

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    I would ride a rigid SS before I would give up my dropper.

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    Of course you would (well, say so anyway...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Of course you would (well, say so anyway...)
    Well ok not SS but I would forego suspension not even hard choice.
    Being able to move around the bike is more important.

    But I'm sure you will partially disagree as usual.

    And please don't inply me to be a liar it's ****ing rude.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    My conspiracy theory is that 26" was killed off due to market saturation. Prices were pretty low and people were enjoying it, but perhaps got too used to such performance/quality at such a price point, not willing to pay full retail like $55+ on tires, or wheels, or frames. Enter folks paying $2500 for carbon wheels for their 29ers, saying, "it's the best upgrade you can make, and totally worth it!!!" XC segment was paying $$$$...

    Now 29ers are finally progressing into developing a solid foothold in the gravity sector. The industry seemingly was waiting for it to develop naturally, with reputable racers demanding it. Those that experimented with it before found that the lack of tires and suspension held them back.

    27.5 already had products developed for the entire range of disciplines, as it was seemingly an industry reset on 26. They touting the latest and greatest trends in R&D to get retailers on board, along with fears that 26 just wasn't selling, and therefore production was halted... that's what they say at least. I figure if they want 27.5 to go the way of 26, they'd make similar claims, making 29er and 27.5 versions of the same thing, and report that 29 far outsold 27.5.
    Or they finaly figured out the first wheel size they tried because it was around and convenient may not be the best wheel size for gnarly riding.

    But that's not as fun to think about.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    Looks interesting! Am tempted to buy it, but $43 feels a bit steep.
    Results played out real time on video/s too by many testers. GMBN maybe.... It was fun to watch, maybe like a tech paper and results coming to life.
    Same bike doing wheel size comparo's on a timed course , same tire pattern, corrected pressures etc.... Nothing was ever identified as the big win or benefit overall.
    Numbers and times were so infinitesimal, it's really like Vespasianus points out. Get the bike that feels and fits right and have fun ! I'm 5'11" and frame or wheel size can go M or L and 27/5, 29. Presently thrilled on a Med plus bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post
    Well ok not SS but I would forego suspension not even hard choice.
    Being able to move around the bike is more important.

    But I'm sure you will partially disagree as usual.

    And please don't inply me to be a liar it's ****ing rude.
    Wasn't implying, was stating. And correctly it seems.

    You do realize that you can move your seat to a place where you can move around the bike even without a dropper, yes? No dropper on my DH/DJ/BMX bikes. If I'm riding somewhere that requires me to drop my seat, that's what I'd be on in the first place. For trail riding, never found a need.
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  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post
    Or they finaly figured out the first wheel size they tried because it was around and convenient may not be the best wheel size for gnarly riding.

    But that's not as fun to think about.
    There is no best size for gnarly riding. What kind of riding are you referring to? 26" still dominates redbull rampage which is the gnarliest event in MTB. Danny Mac still rides 24". Slope style pros compete on 26'ers. Gnarly riding was never the marketing twist for 650b. Rollover and speed was 650b's angle. Funny how we don't hear anything about how fast 650b is anymore. We all know why, 650b is the new 26" only when it comes to gnarly riding styles, pros still prefer classic coke.

  87. #287
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    27.5 is not even close to being dead.
    I believe from a manufacturers standpoint, they would love to see just one wheel size, which means less sku's which could possibly mean less unsold inventory.

    I test the speed of 27.5 vs 29 all the time( although my friends on 29ers really don't know i'm doing it).As a note, most of my riding friends are roughly the same weight and height, pretty much our abilities are similar,
    On smooth to washboard fireroads and trails, I see 27.5 as faster than 29ers. I say this , we ride simiar type bikes, mostly trail bikes with travel from 120mm-160mm, similar tires. My bike is actually the biggest, Turner RFX, 170mm F, 160mm R, 30 lbs, 2.4 tires. On rocky, bumpy trails trails,I may give a slight edge to the 29ers. Tight and twisty trails, 27.5.
    I know this is unscientific and how I come to my conclusions are mostly when we are rolling along, my bike, as well as with my last 27.5 xc/ trail bike, my bikes just clearly rolled faster.
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  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    My conspiracy theory is that 26" was killed off due to market saturation. Prices were pretty low and people were enjoying it, but perhaps got too used to such performance/quality at such a price point, not willing to pay full retail like $55+ on tires, or wheels, or frames. Enter folks paying $2500 for carbon wheels for their 29ers, saying, "it's the best upgrade you can make, and totally worth it!!!" XC segment was paying $$$$...

    Now 29ers are finally progressing into developing a solid foothold in the gravity sector. The industry seemingly was waiting for it to develop naturally, with reputable racers demanding it. Those that experimented with it before found that the lack of tires and suspension held them back.

    27.5 already had products developed for the entire range of disciplines, as it was seemingly an industry reset on 26. They touting the latest and greatest trends in R&D to get retailers on board, along with fears that 26 just wasn't selling, and therefore production was halted... that's what they say at least. I figure if they want 27.5 to go the way of 26, they'd make similar claims, making 29er and 27.5 versions of the same thing, and report that 29 far outsold 27.5.
    You may be right. Most bikes are sold at places like Walmart and such. Are they still 26" bikes or did they try to move to 27.5 or 29" I wonder? I do know that overall "significant" bike usage is down by a lot in kids. I doubt that is related to wheel size. More likely associated with phone size...
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  89. #289
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    Walmart sells 27.5 and 29ers. Also fat bikes.

    They're still all total shit, but they're there!

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeners View Post
    I buy all my bikes for resale value. I don't even ride them.
    I’ve never sold one of my bikes. They either break, or get stolen.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by x-rated View Post
    cost saving, nothing else
    Huh?
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (about town bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

  92. #292
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    I've zipped around on my wife's new size small 27.5 AM bike and it feel dramatically more nimble and quicker than my similar spec 29er (both are Mondraker Foxys on similar tires, wheels, travel, etc...). My wife is about 5'4" 115# and any small rollover advantage offered by 29ers would be totally offset by the clumsiness and rotating weight of 29" wheels. And to think that modern 29ers are so much better than they were just 4 years ago.

    In general I'd recommend a 27.5" bike for any trail rider under 5'8" or so.
    I think anyone in the 5'11"+ range is going to be better served by a 29er.

    I also suspect that Mullet bikes are going to offer considerable advantages for riders in that mid range height, and are going to be the total ticket for pretty much all DH bikes.

    Makes me wonder if a 26" rear/ 27.5" front would make a great set up for a smaller Enduro/ DH rider. I suspect so but don't expect the manufacturers will go there.

  93. #293
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    Current WC DH overall leader on 27.5" wheels.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Current WC DH overall leader on 27.5" wheels.
    https://youtu.be/EsR0QS-QXIk?t=125

    Butt buzzing would be a more common occurrence with bigger wheels... (example at ~2:06)

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Current WC DH overall leader on 27.5" wheels.
    So that means 29" wheels are going the way of the 26" ? Yeah,,time for a new thread?

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by White7 View Post
    So that means 29" wheels are going the way of the 26" ? Yeah,,time for a new thread?
    I just sold my 27.5 and got a 29er because of this thread and now 29ers are dying!?!?!?

    I can't win.
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  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowMaybesGo View Post
    I just sold my 27.5 and got a 29er because of this thread and now 29ers are dying!?!?!?

    I can't win.
    Go 26?
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  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I've zipped around on my wife's new size small 27.5 AM bike and it feel dramatically more nimble and quicker than my similar spec 29er (both are Mondraker Foxys on similar tires, wheels, travel, etc...). My wife is about 5'4" 115# and any small rollover advantage offered by 29ers would be totally offset by the clumsiness and rotating weight of 29" wheels. And to think that modern 29ers are so much better than they were just 4 years ago.
    You sure the quickness/nimbleness wasn't due to different frame size/wheelbase?

    My regular ride is a 27.5 but these new 29ers are amazing. I got to ride a 2019 kona hei hei and it was every bit as manuverable and nimble as my 27.5. They've really come a long way with 29er geo.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  99. #299
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    It’s all about feel and the trails you ride. I just built a new 26er steel Hardtail.(Evo456) Only thing tough to find for a 26er is a straight head tube fork with 150mm of travel. Still awesome deals on wheel sets and 1x11 Drive trains. Other than forks or new 1x12 drive trains it all still works on a 26er. I did also build a 27.5 plus HT with 2.6 tires (whyte 901) It’s like the most perfect HT.

    I think 27.5 with. 2.6 tire is the sweet spot. No 29ers for me, but I have ridden them and they are just fine. Only issue I has was they don’t feel as good jumping and playing around. All depends what you do more of.

  100. #300
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    Longevity of so called 'obsolete' wheel/tire sizes

    I just purchased a 27.5 bike today and happened to come across this thread while perusing the forums. Apparently the speculation was wrong. Case in point, Trek's web site has 67 different 27.5 models. This is one manufacturer. I checked other manufacturers and found plenty of 27.5 bikes as well. It seems like it is pretty successful to me. I also own a 26", and while there are very few NEW quality 26" bikes still offered, it is not a problem to get parts for 26". While the market is diminished, there are still tons of 26" bikes out there. They aren't all going to scrap heaps. As long as a decent consumer base is there, they will still sell parts for it. As for 27.5, IMO it isn't going anywhere unless suddenly all of the smaller/shorter people vanish from existence. 29" just doesn't work for us.

  101. #301
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    Our shop is still selling plenty of 27.5 bikes. It's either the same amount or more than 29s. Same goes for tires and wheelsets.
    Keep the Country country.

  102. #302
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    27.5" is still a better choice for certain applications.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  103. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I've zipped around on my wife's new size small 27.5 AM bike and it feel dramatically more nimble and quicker than my similar spec 29er (both are Mondraker Foxys on similar tires, wheels, travel, etc...). My wife is about 5'4" 115# and any small rollover advantage offered by 29ers would be totally offset by the clumsiness and rotating weight of 29" wheels. And to think that modern 29ers are so much better than they were just 4 years ago.
    I have to agree with this. The difference is quite noticeable and obviously to a lot a people since they are selling a lot of both wheel sizes into the market.

    I have 29 and 27.5 bikes in my garage. I pick the one I'm going to ride on a given day based on what kind of ride I'm looking for that day.

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