We have Wolves!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: We have Wolves!

  1. #1

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    3,882

    We have Wolves!

    So this pack in Eagle River (Artillery road) is not afraid of 2 adults and 2 dogs, after being sprayed. How long before the pack takes a human life, after becoming comfortable with human contact? Hopefully Sennott and crew are on this one, before someone gets killed.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    229
    To my knowledge there has never been a recorded attack of a wolf on a human . Ever

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    658
    dude, relax. think about the alternative to 'we have wolves'....
    ride fast...take chances...

  4. #4

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    507
    Quote Originally Posted by iridetitus
    dude, relax. think about the alternative to 'we have wolves'....
    What would that be?

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,313
    Yup. Harmless.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    215
    What would that be?
    We have Wolve....erines! Now there's a nasty MF'er.

  7. #7
    Grillin' & Chillin'
    Reputation: speedsk8_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    147

    Wolves and Peter Sellers

    Just like Chance the Gardener, the character Peter Sellers played in the 1979 movie
    "Being There", wolves just like to watch, humans that is.

    Great qoute from the movie
    [Riding in a car for the first time]
    Chance the Gardener: This is just like television, only you can see much further.
    Grill Meister
    "There were never any good old days
    They are today, they are tomorrow
    "
    - Gogol Bordello

  8. #8
    Wonder Boy
    Reputation: Bill in AK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    35

    I "met" these wolves........

    14 year old son and I met the Elmendorf pack back in the middle of May, this year. We were riding on the north side of the base, above the 6 Mile ammo area, topped a short hill and in the middle of the fire road was the black wolf seen on the front page of the ADN. Another light colored wolf was with, but spun off into the woods when it saw us. The black wolf lowered its head as if to get our scent and kept loping towards us. It stopped when I yelled, then ran of into the woods. Geek son kept calculating the cut-off angle of the pack as we turned back down the hill and headed back to the populated area of the base. I told him I was never worried, as I am faster than him.

    Bill
    If you want to get there, go there.

    "Their civilization was just a thin veneer over the unyielding realities of life beyond the frontier, and all too soon these dreams of civilization gave way to the inevitable."
    - anthonys

  9. #9
    Diaskeuast
    Reputation: Big Karma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    575
    Rather than seeing any wolves killed, I would hope that if human safety becomes an issue (and as Jeff pointed out, there's never been a documented case of wolves killing people in Alaska) wildlife officials and land mangers would shut down problem areas until conditions return to normal.

    Trail closures are common in summer when brown bears are known to be protecting cubs or guarding kills in certain areas, and it's a small price to pay for the privilege of living among big, impressive wildlife. Given the ridiculously low snow totals we've had so far this year, a similar tactic might be practical while the wolves are having a hard time catching prey.

    I wouldn't blame anyone for defending themselves when truly in danger, but I worry that with all the fear that seems to be spreading around, we're going to see people start over-reacting and shooting wolves when it's really not necessary.

    If anyone's riding in the wolves' habitat right now, I hope they'll travel in groups and leave pets at home.

  10. #10

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    132
    Indeed leave the pets at home or keep them on a leash almost hit one with my Nokians because the owners not smart enough to see headlights coming straight at his/her dog although giving the dog a few tread marks had crossed my mind just to emphasize the point.

  11. #11
    Brass Nipples!
    Reputation: Bob the Wheelbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,006
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1962
    To my knowledge there has never been a recorded attack of a wolf on a human . Ever
    Here's some light reading:

    http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/...chb13_full.pdf

    Three women jogging with their dogs were surrounded and one of their leashed dogs was attacked on the base (yesterday?). There's an interesting video on CNN:

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...olf.attack.cnn

    I'm sure this is very uncommon, but not unprecedented.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  12. #12
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1962
    To my knowledge there has never been a recorded attack of a wolf on a human . Ever
    Actually there has been an attacks on humans and in Canada last year a dude got eaten.

    All those stories throughout history about wolves that we chalk up to folklore do have some basis to them. These are some tough times for wolves in these snow free areas. They are coming out of their most stressful time into a season that should yield and abundance of prey to encounter. These wolves, at least in Eagle River, have become too comfortable around humans and have been able to get a couple of meals out of them without any negative consequences.

    There is no evidence to support that wolves can be aversively conditioned and even if an individual could be, how can that be translated throughout all pack members. The downside of all of this is that these wolves will be trapped and the remaining members shot. The upside is that there will another pack in that territory next year, but they will not have the same boldness around humans.

  13. #13
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    [QUOTE=Bob the Wheelbuilder]Here's some light reading:

    http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/...chb13_full.pdf

    Three women jogging with their dogs were surrounded and one of their leashed dogs was attacked on the base (yesterday?). There's an interesting video on CNN:

    Yes and the managed to get some bear spray off at one wolf who ran away. She tugged her dog away fromthe wolf on leash and then the other 6-7 followed them all the way abck to their cars. Spooky, huh?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pluto Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    430
    Just saw the video. These wolves are clearly after the dogs, not the humans. Scary nonetheless, but it's an important distinction. There have been similar incidents in the northern Rockies. I can see why it was scary for the woman though. Safest route probably would have been to leave the dogs.

    Why hasn't Fish and Game or whoever shot this particular pack? Seems like Alaska has made it open season on wolves with the aerial shooting, yet this pack that seems to have habituated to humans remains. Or is it because they are on military base land and can't do anything about it? Someone enlighten me.

  15. #15
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by Pluto Pilot
    Just saw the video. These wolves are clearly after the dogs, not the humans. Scary nonetheless, but it's an important distinction. There have been similar incidents in the northern Rockies. I can see why it was scary for the woman though. Safest route probably would have been to leave the dogs.

    Why hasn't Fish and Game or whoever shot this particular pack? Seems like Alaska has made it open season on wolves with the aerial shooting, yet this pack that seems to have habituated to humans remains. Or is it because they are on military base land and can't do anything about it? Someone enlighten me.
    A little slow to react but the cogs are now in place. The plan in Fairbanks will probably play out as an incentive to increase trapping effort (paying for carcasses which will also have some scientific interest) followed by active hunting and possibly cleaned up with Helicopters gunning with ADFG personnel. I imagine the same will play out in Anchorage/Eagle River and may include a moose carcass as a bait site. This is pretty new territory for ADFG as well other management agencies. The State manages wildlife on the base (who have officially closed the trails) and will work their Conservation Officers and Biologists to move forward.

  16. #16

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Problem exists...

    ...over many areas of the State this year, in large part due to the minimal snowfall. For those expedition-style riders out there...definitely don't travel alone...also, reposting some 'food for thought' info from a previous post on bear protection.

    Anyone in Alaska that takes this issue lightly or thinks that wolves are harmless...sorry!

    Hunger Knows No Laws!

    M

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/248056460/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/91/248056460_4ca03c1859_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="Bangstick1" /></a>
    It mounts easily to any bike...anywhere!



    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/248056753/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/98/248056753_af4e8ccb8d_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="Bangstick2" /></a>
    It's compact and v.lightweight


    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/248057096/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/90/248057096_6ec35ac614_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="bandstick3" /></a>
    With reasonable extension...makes for a
    pretty fair fight (read: last resort)



    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/248057378/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/87/248057378_d900930718_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="bangstick4" /></a>
    With some really simple safety features


    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/248057607/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="https://static.flickr.com/89/248057607_682a02449a_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="bangstick5" /></a>
    And...it packs one hell of a punch.

  17. #17
    Bill M
    Guest

    Zip Guns

    Holly ****. I already worry more about inexperience folks with guns on the trail than I do the bears in the summer now I guess I need to worry about zip gun packing bikers in the winter.
    I actually woke up in a bivy in the Fairwell Hills during the race to find three sets of fresh wolf tracks that came within 6 feet of my sleeping bag. I hadn't had a bath in days, probably smelled like something dead and had smoked salmon in my kit. I'll just leave it at that!
    Bill M

  18. #18

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Good job! Hunger Knows No Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill M
    Holly ****. I already worry more about inexperience folks with guns on the trail than I do the bears in the summer now I guess I need to worry about zip gun packing bikers in the winter.
    I actually woke up in a bivy in the Fairwell Hills during the race to find three sets of fresh wolf tracks that came within 6 feet of my sleeping bag. I hadn't had a bath in days, probably smelled like something dead and had smoked salmon in my kit. I'll just leave it at that!
    Bill M
    Bill

    I agree...a firearm in the hands of the inexperienced kook is not a good thing...but I'll bet you have more a chance of getting shot with a gun by a kook on 4th Ave.in Ankrich than you do on any trail...so don't lose too much sleep over it...just stay away from 4th Ave!

    _______

    Don't want people to think I'm promoting Zip Guns...the above device is a 'Bang Stick' and really a well refined and serious piece of equipment. I was initiated to this device by an Hawa'ian Elder who was a professional diver and carried one because he was often working in tiger shark infested waters. I confirmed the use with Special Forces buds stationed in Honolulu...they treated the use as inexpensive lightweight insurance for their use scenarios.

    Thats how I've integrated it into some of my kit...esp. useful on the ocean when I have students or tourists traversing SeaLion, Walrus areas...cheap insurance, and it shows I've at least thought through the safety scenarios thoroughly. Yes, its a last resort!

    Yeah, I've got many great 'harmless' wolf stories too...sitting on the Misty Coast of the Eastern Gulf of Alaska and having a black wolf come into camp and sit next to and stare across the warm camp fire...even woke to a wolf pissing on the front corner of my tent in the Eastern Arctic near Baffin Island...and many more in between...blah blah blah. *smiles*

    BUT that's not the point!

    and I'm just repeating what I hear Eskimo Elders and Subsistence Hunters saying here in rural Alaska...

    This is not just happening in Eagle River Valley...I've heard stories this year from friends in Middle Yukon and Upper Kuskokwim River villages. Snowfall this year has been minimal in many places all over Alaska which means that (as a whole) Moose and Caribou are less accessible as food for wolves...this is obviously not the norm (although I experienced a similar extreme situation in the Lower Kobuk Valley in the late 80s). Nevertheless, we need to acknowledge that wolves are now looking for alternative food sources AND that a human, alone and unprotected, bike or no bike, qualifies as such!

    I'll repeat...Hunger Knows No Laws...do what ever you need to...but...safety in numbers, be alert and cautious!

    Getting some snow right now so hopefully the issue will soon become moot!


    Good discussion...Quyana

    ML
    Last edited by qayaq_alaska; 12-27-2007 at 07:51 PM.

  19. #19
    Diaskeuast
    Reputation: Big Karma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    575
    Just playing devil's advocate here, is a "bang stick" even remotely practical? It looks like it would hold a single round of ammo, and to accurately hit any target smaller than a phone booth it would likely need to be placed directly against the body before firing -- at the very least, it would require extremely close range.

    I was attacked by a domestic dog two years ago and would have found it very hard to shoot it with a stick while it was trashing around on my leg. I have a hard time thinking a bang stick would be good for anything against a pack of wolves in the unlikely event of an attack, unless they happened to be afraid of loud noises.

  20. #20
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    What size bullet is that?

  21. #21

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    44 mag....

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhalla
    What size bullet is that?
    .44 mag

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    658
    Quote Originally Posted by aka bubba
    What would that be?
    extinction.
    ride fast...take chances...

  23. #23
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    Wow, I can't even imagine the kick from it. Is it tolerable? Obviously it is not for target shooting...range, distance, accuracy?

    Sorry for all the questions I have never known anyone to have one of those. What is the set up time?

  24. #24
    Ride da mOOn Moderator
    Reputation: NEPMTBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    8,453
    I would rather be shot than eaten!

    What's wrong with learning how to properly use a firearm? Any responsible person would take a course and use the weapon corectly. I hate it when people say "What are you nuts people with guns running around"

    Get real there are lot's running around with guns and their not looking to shoot wolves!

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    62

    No sharks on the tundra

    No offense meant, but that stick is to fend off sharks. If a wolf gets close enough for you to touch it with that, it's all over but you being wolf dinner. And that's if the wolf is alone, pretty unlikely. With a pack of wolves, forget it. If you are going to bring a firearm, bring an actual gun, not that. I'll admit that it's lighter than your average pistol and it's a good caliber for the work, but bring a real gun. My 2 cents.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    62

    One More Thing

    Just an addendum to all the gun talk. I don't think anyone really needs to carry a wolf gun. Far as I know, wolves have never attacked a human in North America. IIRC, a wolf bit a kid on the hand in Southeast a few years ago, but that wolf was habituated to humans.

  27. #27
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoat
    Just an addendum to all the gun talk. I don't think anyone really needs to carry a wolf gun. Far as I know, wolves have never attacked a human in North America. IIRC, a wolf bit a kid on the hand in Southeast a few years ago, but that wolf was habituated to humans.
    You probably don't need protection from wolves. What you need is common sense to stay away from these habituated wolves (i.e. don't walk your dog on these trails; don't let your dog out in the morning to pee off leash). These wolves have no fear of humans and have been rewarded ( with puppy snacks) for their boldness.

    A man was eaten by a wolf last year in central/eastern Canada and there have been other negative encounters with wolves in North America.http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/wildl...-9380218c.htmlThese are the exception to the norm, but seem to be increasing. According to Mark mcnay there have been 13 such attacks in the past 30 years. http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/wildl...-7853762c.htmlCheck the above posts and links for citations.

  28. #28
    Bill M
    Guest

    Just so you know

    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA
    I would rather be shot than eaten!

    What's wrong with learning how to properly use a firearm? Any responsible person would take a course and use the weapon corectly. I hate it when people say "What are you nuts people with guns running around"

    Get real there are lot's running around with guns and their not looking to shoot wolves!
    I grew up with a gun in my hand, guided hunters for several years and have no problem with responsible folks carrying guns. But---- just last year myself and riding buddies had bullets flying around us on the trail two different times and it wasn't on 4th street in Anchorage. One of the riding buddies that was nearly shot now carries a 44 when we ride that area and its sure not for wolves.
    Bill M

  29. #29
    Ologist
    Reputation: Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill M
    I grew up with a gun in my hand, guided hunters for several years and have no problem with responsible folks carrying guns. But---- just last year myself and riding buddies had bullets flying around us on the trail two different times and it wasn't on 4th street in Anchorage. One of the riding buddies that was nearly shot now carries a 44 when we ride that area and its sure not for wolves.
    Bill M
    Just out of curiosity - Was it on one of these tank trails, in town, or more remote?

    I had a similar thing happen in Juneau. Some guys were just taking pop shots from the Herbert River trail as they walked down it. The trail looped back so that their careless shots came right back across the trail further down. I could hear the bullets zip and I saw it kick up bark when it hit a tree about 20 feet away. The troopers and rangers were not willing to do anything about even though I had all the info needed including the pile of shells they dumped in the parking lot right next to their truck.

  30. #30

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Wow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill M
    I grew up with a gun in my hand, guided hunters for several years and have no problem with responsible folks carrying guns. But---- just last year myself and riding buddies had bullets flying around us on the trail two different times and it wasn't on 4th street in Anchorage. One of the riding buddies that was nearly shot now carries a 44 when we ride that area and its sure not for wolves.
    Bill M
    that sucks, sorry to hear that Bill...while we have our share of hoolums on our trails out here...I'll take my chances with the wolves over idiots with guns anyday.

    M

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.