ONE WAY trails???- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    ONE WAY trails???

    while going biking yesterday i noticed some DO NOT ENTER signs, while trying to get up the mountain. just wondering if there are actually trails that are one way only.
    If so are there any maps that show which trails these are??

  2. #2
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    What you probably saw was the signs on the tail end of the Spencer Loop, uphill from the Gasline (just north of the Hilltop Parking Lot). Those signs are for winter use. Going the wrong direction on those trails in the winter can be pretty dangerous due to tight and fast corners. Most of the ski trails are direction-specific in the winter, but all the trails become two-way trails in the summer. Keep in mind that the more common direction in the summer is the same as the winter direction, so if you are going opposite that, you will have more instances of encountering oncoming traffic. As with anywhere, keep your eyes and ears open on any fast or blind corners, whether you are going up or down.

  3. #3

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    Sweet thanx for the INFO! what about south(ern) intermidiat (branches of towards the top of gasline) is that a two way?

  4. #4
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    I believe all of the STA trails (including the one you are mentioning) are two-way in the summer. Actually, I am not aware of any trails anywhere in Anchorage that are considered one-way during the summer. Some are more typically one-way over another, but I don't think any have that official designation keeping you from going either way.

  5. #5
    The devil is an angel too
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier
    I believe all of the STA trails (including the one you are mentioning) are two-way in the summer. Actually, I am not aware of any trails anywhere in Anchorage that are considered one-way during the summer. Some are more typically one-way over another, but I don't think any have that official designation keeping you from going either way.
    STA trails are two ways year round.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenK
    STA trails are two ways year round.
    Good catch. I didn't mean to imply that they were one-way in the winter, but that is how it looked when I went back and read my post. The only trails that are one-way in the winter are typically (not in all cases such as the Tour trail and Multi-Use trails) the wide groomed ski trails.

  7. #7
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    Directional Trails

    Although I generally do not like direcctional trails I rode all of the new STA trails a couple days ago and I feel the speed which those trails can be ridden at (especially the advanced loops) and the high number of blind corners demand directional use. I rode the trails in the evening of a week day and fortunatly did not encounter anybody but I would be nervous to ride them on a weekday afterwork hours (3 to 7ish) and especially durring a weekend. Most of the berms and banked corners are barely big enough (most were too tight as well) to accomodate the high speeds a rider can easily reach on trails b/c the trails are so hardpacked and contain so few roots and rocks. I can only imagine how fast they will be after a year or two of use after they have become ridden in! It is sweet to finally have this style of ridding in AK!

  8. #8
    Wood chips are stupid
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    The trails are multi direction in the summer. But,keep in mind some of them are best traveled in the skiers direction due to the speed involved. Spencers Loop and Black Bear are good ones to excerise a little extra caution on.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrestvt
    Although I generally do not like direcctional trails I rode all of the new STA trails a couple days ago and I feel the speed which those trails can be ridden at (especially the advanced loops) and the high number of blind corners demand directional use. I rode the trails in the evening of a week day and fortunatly did not encounter anybody but I would be nervous to ride them on a weekday afterwork hours (3 to 7ish) and especially durring a weekend. Most of the berms and banked corners are barely big enough (most were too tight as well) to accomodate the high speeds a rider can easily reach on trails b/c the trails are so hardpacked and contain so few roots and rocks. I can only imagine how fast they will be after a year or two of use after they have become ridden in! It is sweet to finally have this style of ridding in AK!
    I;m with you on the *potential* need for establishing direction of travel on the new trails. Last summer we were coming down the first bit that was open and two guys were coming up... well it wasn't pretty. I couldn't understand going up those trails. I'd rather grunt up the Gasline and ride DOWN the fun stuff, but that's just me...

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    Yeah i totally agree with Onsite12a and Forresttvt. i've been riding south advance down to hill top trailhead. everytime i hit a blind corner i'm afraid there might be someone coming in my direction!! i believe for general saft it might be better to make them one way!
    Once again mad props for putting those trails in, besides some low banks and awkwardly tight turns they are the funnest trails so far!!

  11. #11
    Caveman
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    I've been climbing all the trails both ways recently and have really been enjoying the diversity and potential for the different loops. I feel like most of the blind turns on the downhills force you to slow down enough that you could still avoid a head on if the timing was just that bad.
    Climbing is fun on nice trails too, they are XC trails after all... we've "suffered" for years by going up the gasline since it was the only real choice and its great now to be able to get up higher on well graded singletrack.
    my 2c

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegerman
    Yeah i totally agree with Onsite12a and Forresttvt. i've been riding south advance down to hill top trailhead. everytime i hit a blind corner i'm afraid there might be someone coming in my direction!! i believe for general saft it might be better to make them one way!
    Once again mad props for putting those trails in, besides some low banks and awkwardly tight turns they are the funnest trails so far!!
    This is the most selfish argument I've heard in a while.

  13. #13
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    Selfish?

    Care to elaborate FrozenK? Seems to me this is an open discussion where folks are voicing a general concern for the general safety of other riders sharing the trail system. I am not really sure how that is selfish.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrestvt
    Care to elaborate FrozenK? Seems to me this is an open discussion where folks are voicing a general concern for the general safety of other riders sharing the trail system. I am not really sure how that is selfish.
    No, it is about some people complaining that they can't go as fast as they would like because others may be going uphill.

  15. #15
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    I cant speak for others but I dont view any of the posts as complaining but rather a voicing of a legitimate concern. I am glad to see folks who state themselves as being more gravity orianted are even getting involved in such a discussion. It is the downhill riders responsibility to yield to the uphill rider but, fast narrow trails with berms and limited lines of sight can make this challenging even when a rider is conscious of potential two way traffic.

  16. #16
    is buachail foighneach me
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    not trying to knock the work done, but user management is as important of a trail design consideration as water management. incorporating chokes and twists or other features leading up to a sharp turn is good design and would alleviate this problem for the most part. alot of imba style trails that i've ridden here and in the lower 48 lack proper chokes and corales, and it's a common problem to get too much speed approaching turns on these trails. if you know the trail, and know it's coming, it's easy to control your speed and set up for it, but if you haven't ridden a trail enough to memorize the turns you could easily find yourself coming into it way too hot.

    the arguement that a rider should be in control and prepared for other trail users is valid, but trail design and layout can go a long way toward making sure that happens.

  17. #17
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    Well put Sean, I couldnt agree more.

  18. #18
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    I'm with the 'baiter...

    I've been riding the trails a bit lately and the climbs are the best part. As for the "awkward" turns and all that, I think the idea is to get people to slow down so they are supposed to be awkward. Right now the all direction thing seems fine. Folks just need to slow down on the downhill if its a crowded day, not a big deal. If you want to go out there and bomb the trials just make an effort to go on odd hours. We have plenty of daylite in the summer so get up early or stay up late and knock yourself out, otherwise lets all just play nice together and ride at appropriate speeds. The problem is we all ride at different speeds and even if the trails are one way there is always a chance of coming up fast behind someone on a corner or something. What has really amazed me is how well the trails are laid out. The tight corners really force people to slow down and the ability to mix and match the loops leads to few encounters with other riders, even when the trails are loaded with riders.

    Adam
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  19. #19
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    And of course...have you ever tried to make a hiker go in a directional manner. Not so much. Even if you eliminated the uphill riders, you'd still have other trail users to contend with.

    And yes, sometimes the climb is just as much fun as the descent.

  20. #20

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    FrozenK im not being SELFISH here, there are stretches on these trails where hitting a blind corner for an intermidiat rider isn't that hard.
    Yeah we should be thinking about others using the trail, but common we all get our moment were we are caught up in the moment and just kinda forget about it. hence creating 1 or 2 trails that are only downhill or only uphill would just be a addition to general safety!
    i've been riding alot of the South parts of the new single trails, and find that a majority of the awkward corners are put on spots where i can actually see if theres someone around the bend, whereas the ones that i could be carring some speed trough are usually blind!
    (i usually whistle while going through blind corners, but with MP3 players now a day not even sure if that still helps!, but ill keep doing it anyway!)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegerman
    FrozenK im not being SELFISH here, there are stretches on these trails where hitting a blind corner for an intermidiat rider isn't that hard.
    Yeah we should be thinking about others using the trail, but common we all get our moment were we are caught up in the moment and just kinda forget about it. hence creating 1 or 2 trails that are only downhill or only uphill would just be a addition to general safety!
    i've been riding alot of the South parts of the new single trails, and find that a majority of the awkward corners are put on spots where i can actually see if theres someone around the bend, whereas the ones that i could be carring some speed trough are usually blind!
    (i usually whistle while going through blind corners, but with MP3 players now a day not even sure if that still helps!, but ill keep doing it anyway!)
    Sure, and when you come out of that corner -really fast because it is a one way trail- and there is a freaking moose standing there I'm sure the moose will move out of the way, right? Or hikers walking with their dog. Because we all know the safest way to approach a hiker -or horse rider, they use those trails too- is from behind and at high speed. Right? Or as someone already pointed out, people riding slower than you.

    No, it isn't a safety issue is a selfish issue. You want to go faster than you should. If you can't stop in time for a guy going the opposite direction then you are not in control of your bike. And you have to be in control of your bike. Yield to the guys going uphill and if you want to ride "downhill trails" go to Alyeska.

  22. #22

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    Fine i'm a selfish basterd then who just wants to race down a track and get my adrenelin pumpin! i can totaly live with that!
    If we're a hazard to your riding then simple be infavor for a downhill trail so you can get all of us selfish riders of the trails!!!!!! How does that sound?? sounds pretty good to me, problem solved right?!

  23. #23
    is buachail foighneach me
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    ok, fine, we'll do all the work. just sit back and relax and we'll build you a downhill trail. maybe you and the 5 other freeriders in south central could come out and drink some beer, sit in lawn chairs and direct us on how to build it correctly?

    i'm kidding, before you get your manpanties in an uncomfortable position. find the other gravity riders and get on it, with ALL of our blessing. i don't know what the lack of response from the gravity oriented ak community means for you. it could mean that there aren't that many interested. it could mean that they don't have the time or desire to help get it going, it could be that they don't see the point in going through the proper channels, or it could be that they don't frequent mtbr's ak forum.

  24. #24
    Wood chips are stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    ok, fine, we'll do all the work. just sit back and relax and we'll build you a downhill trail. maybe you and the 5 other freeriders in south central could come out and drink some beer, sit in lawn chairs and direct us on how to build it correctly?

    i'm kidding, before you get your manpanties in an uncomfortable position. find the other gravity riders and get on it, with ALL of our blessing. i don't know what the lack of response from the gravity oriented ak community means for you. it could mean that there aren't that many interested. it could mean that they don't have the time or desire to help get it going, it could be that they don't see the point in going through the proper channels, or it could be that they don't frequent mtbr's ak forum.
    I think lack of response is because there just isn't that many of them.Plus,most of them are satisfied with the trails they have to use at this time. When their numbers grow and some of their trails get shut down or "improved",then they will begin to step up. It's the same path us xc riders took. Some Iggy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenK
    Sure, and when you come out of that corner -really fast because it is a one way trail- and there is a freaking moose standing there I'm sure the moose will move out of the way, right? Or hikers walking with their dog. Because we all know the safest way to approach a hiker -or horse rider, they use those trails too- is from behind and at high speed. Right? Or as someone already pointed out, people riding slower than you.

    No, it isn't a safety issue is a selfish issue. You want to go faster than you should. If you can't stop in time for a guy going the opposite direction then you are not in control of your bike. And you have to be in control of your bike. Yield to the guys going uphill and if you want to ride "downhill trails" go to Alyeska.
    As a point of clarification; the trails at Alyeska are XC/all mountain trails, not downhill trails.

    They are directional, and the descending trails are closed to all but bike traffic as to address the concerns raised by all members of this discussion. With the obvious exception being wildlife. Bears suck at reading signs.

  26. #26
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    I think the biggest thing here is that these are cross country trails, rather than downhill trails. Lack of banking on corners means you need to use technique to make the corner and that you may have to slow down to navigate it. Part or riding single-track is keeping yourself in control based on what the trail allows. I have ridden trails all over the place where it was actually somewhat difficult to get a hard workout in because you just physically couldn't go fast because of the tight turns and offcamber sections that didn't allow for speed. It didn't make them any less fun, just different that trails where you can just let it go and you are limited by either gravity or your input effort.

    Regarding the safety factor, users for the most part need to realize it is a two-way trail and handle their speed accordingly. Most of these trails wind around so much, you can usually see multiple other locations around the trails from a distance. If you keep your eyes open when riding, you can usually see approximately where other are and know when to expect to come across them. In my riding up there, I haven't had any problems yet despite coming across others in any number of situations.

    It may not be unreasonable to set up shot times in off-hour periods when you run it as a one-way trail. Maybe have someone go ahead of you and make sure the trail is clear before letting it fly. Maybe there would be a way to set up a couple signs for an hour or so on one trail to make it tempoarily one-way? Definitly not something that would happen all the time, but off and on may be okay. Could be something to look into though. Races often put up notices informing other users of the race and to watch for them, especially when the direction of travel is contrary to the norm.

    There are ways around going to the extent of making an offical designation of one-way on the trails. Less rules tend to be easier to work with than more when you can get away with it.

  27. #27
    seedub
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    Other places...

    I have recently been down south riding other cities trails constructed on state and city park land, they are directional for bikers, but it is a suggestion, not a rule. Hikers were frequent, and if we want to be able to construct trails on public land then we must accommodate the people who inevitably find and use these trails. I too was wishing I could "fireroad" these singletracks, but the simple fact that they were available after all these years of backward progress was enough to satisfy me.
    If you want to blast, you are just going to have to save it for the races. Of course, as was said earlier, bears and moose don't honor race flagging.
    you may have come before us on no bicycle, but that does not say you know everything.

  28. #28
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    Another way to alleviate conflicts on the trail whether it be human, moose, or bear is to let your presence be known. Holler - let people know that there is a bike coming down hill or on the same trail. It is not a pass for reckless and selfish downhill speeds but you take the surprise out when you can hear someone on the trail ahead or behind you.

  29. #29
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    yeah, don't go in stealth mode.

    playing cards in the spokes! Safety yodeling...

    No, seriously I always have a bear bell on my handlebars...annoying, but you get used to it, and it's saved me many a highspeed collision. I'll come around a corner and people will already be off to the side because they heard the scary turbo jangling

  30. #30
    is buachail foighneach me
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    you could also train a pack of hyenas to run in front of you, devouring everything in your path. everyone will just blame it on the bears anyway, so you'll have nothing to worry about. completely foolproof.

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