More bikes showing up on ski-only trails recently- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    More bikes showing up on ski-only trails recently

    First off, there has been a big decrease in the overall number of bikes riding on the ski-only trails this season. This is a good thing and hasn't gone unnoticed. I don't think I saw a single track for the first couple months of the ski season.

    Having said that, over the last couple of weeks, there has been a noticeable increase in the bike traffic on those trails (specifically Hillside trails such as the lighted loop and Spencer) and the people I have seen first hand seem to be of the opinion that it is okay for them because they are on fat bikes. This relatively small number of people are very visible when they are out there and are not helping all the hard work the rest of the bike community has been doing to improve their image. Non-bikers are, or at least they seem to be from what I have seen, a lot more tolerant to the fat bikes as they learn how little impact they have on the trails. Unfortunately, people going ahead and still poaching the trails, especially right in the middle of the day on a weekend, will quickly give a black eye to the riding community.

    Please continue to encourage proper trail use and help those who are new to it to learn the rules. It will go a long way to help everyone out.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier
    Non-bikers are, or at least they seem to be from what I have seen, a lot more tolerant to the fat bikes as they learn how little impact they have on the trails.
    umm.... you said it
    litespeed's break

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff
    umm.... you said it
    Yeah, and these guys who are poaching the ski-only trails are single-handedly countering the good image the biking community has worked so hard to establish recently.

  4. #4
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    These "poachers" are not on this forum. You should take your campaign somewhere else.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50
    These "poachers" are not on this forum. You should take your campaign somewhere else.
    And you know this how? Whether they are on this forum or not, there is a good chance people on here know them or will see them out on the trails. I know I have been out riding multi-use trails and seen bikers, ski-jorers or runners (note I am not singling out one group here) turning onto the closed trails and had the chance to let them know. Usually they are new to the area and just didn't realize the mistake. It wasn't meant as an attack on bikers, just a reminder that we need to keep up what we have been doing recently. The improvements have been noticeable and we need to continue that. Groups like STA have made a big step in gaining access and new trails through the legal processes out there.

    As to the "campaign"? I guess I could take it to the Muni and Park Service.....oh, wait, that is where the other trail users will take it to fight our attempts to gain access to currently closed areas and to build new trails when they see we (I mean the biking community as a whole, not just the small group on here) can't follow the simple rules already in place.

  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
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    As both a skier and a biker, I think anchskier is doing a good service by gently reminding folks of the issue. We are much better at influencing the behavior of our peers (bikers talking to bikers) than we are at policing other trail users (skiers yelling at bikers). Even if the poachers aren't mtbr readers, trail etiquette can filter out through the population from here.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    As both a skier and a biker, I think anchskier is doing a good service by gently reminding folks of the issue. We are much better at influencing the behavior of our peers (bikers talking to bikers) than we are at policing other trail users (skiers yelling at bikers). Even if the poachers aren't mtbr readers, trail etiquette can filter out through the population from here.
    Thank you. That is exactly what I meant to convey, however, I know it sometimes may not be come out quite as clearly as you stated it.

  8. #8
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    Okay okay okay,

    Personally, I like the narrow trails better than the wide ski only trails. I don't know how great ski/bike relationships really are getting. My experience, still, is when I come to skiers on the wolverine bowl trail, or the middle fork trail (for which I have a pass), AND I yield to them (and as a rule to other bikers too), I still get glared at like I'm the a-hole. Maybe it's just the way I look. I don't know. I'll keep yielding, and keep riding trails I'm allowed to ride, but it sure is a party foul when a bike forum is riddled with your "stop biking non biking trail" campaign. I get it. Post it on here and everyone on here will go tell their friends who ride the non-biking trails to stop riding the non-biking trails and soon nobody will ride them anymore. Yeah right. Sorry for the pessimism, but your campaign is irritating, and futile. Every year you show up whining about the bikers on ski trails. They still do it.

    Post some riding stoke, I thought that's what these forums were for in the first place.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  9. #9
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50
    Post some riding stoke
    Check.


  10. #10
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    Word. Were you leaving tire tracks on that thing?
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  11. #11
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    Or others misfortunes even

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails More bikes showing up on ski-only trails recently-pull-up.jpg  

    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50
    Personally, I like the narrow trails better than the wide ski only trails. I don't know how great ski/bike relationships really are getting. My experience, still, is when I come to skiers on the wolverine bowl trail, or the middle fork trail (for which I have a pass), AND I yield to them (and as a rule to other bikers too), I still get glared at like I'm the a-hole. Maybe it's just the way I look. I don't know. I'll keep yielding, and keep riding trails I'm allowed to ride, but it sure is a party foul when a bike forum is riddled with your "stop biking non biking trail" campaign. I get it. Post it on here and everyone on here will go tell their friends who ride the non-biking trails to stop riding the non-biking trails and soon nobody will ride them anymore. Yeah right. Sorry for the pessimism, but your campaign is irritating, and futile. Every year you show up whining about the bikers on ski trails. They still do it.

    Post some riding stoke, I thought that's what these forums were for in the first place.
    Hey, to each their own. There's a simple way to avoid getting all worked up, just don't click on things I post if you already know you don't want to read it. It's not like the subject line was cryptic in any way. There, saved you some time and frusteration in the future.

    Now, about that whale....that is definitely one time you really don't want to slide out. It's gotta suck trying to flush whale out of your drivetrain not to mention off of you.

  13. #13
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    That's just their skiing face.

    "I still get glared at like I'm the a-hole. "

    That's an all to common look from all the skiers who take themselves too seriously. I've been on the receiving end of it on my bike (on multi-use trails), towing my kid on skis and even when I'm skate skiing with appropriately tight pants on.

    I don't get it, seems like it would be nicer if we could all just smile at each other and say 'hi', but that's not the way it is.

    I'll keep smiling and hi, whether you're skiing, biking or walking. . . horse's are another matter (I'm kidding, I've been told my sarcasm doesn't always come through clearly over the internet.)

  14. #14
    Wood chips are stupid
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    The hairy eye

    I get the look sometimes. Not very often.
    Runners,skiers,bikers(when I am walking)horse people,moose,dogs...
    Why? Fear maybe. Regret for voting for Obama. We may never know.
    I try not to care.
    some Iggy



    akdeluxe
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails More bikes showing up on ski-only trails recently-iggy.jpg  

    "Trust me,you don't want a big baby."

    JT

  15. #15
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    Ohhhhh yeahhh. Thanks.

    I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one getting the hairy eye, stink eye, spandex eye, whatever it is the skiers do. My favorite ones were the eye darts I got on the middle fork. My permit was on my handlebars, and I pulled over, smiled and waved, and I thought they were going to jump me. If I was a smaller person, and they weren't just skiers, I would have been scared.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  16. #16
    No, that's not phonetic
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    It would require a whole new thread to discuss what tire size and rim width you need for not "punching through the crust" on various stages of cetacean decomposition. That little guy was pretty fresh and my 65mm rim/Endomorph combo was totally up to the task and I could run my tires at about 7psi up front and 8psi in back. A Larry may have given me more confidence up front for the off-camber sections about mid-whale, and a bit more climbing traction from a Larry in back would be good for getting up the tail. A week later I don't think I would have attempted it without 100mm rims and dropping the pressure down to below 5psi. Things were getting a bit soft and you don't want to dab in those situations.

  17. #17
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    To be fair, skate skiing can be fairly intensive exercise, so some skiers (myself included) might just be side-eyeing you while trapped in the throes of the winter version of Runner Stink Face.

    When running it's the same thing, being too focused and breathing too hard to bother smiling at every Jack, Tom, and Harry that cycles past me. I'll look at you, maybe lock eyes for a sec, but that's just to make sure that you're watching where you're going.

    You can smile and wave all you want, but don't be shocked if the most you get is a barely noticeable nod, or even stone-cold ignored. Some of us are using the trails for a high intensity workout, not a meet and greet. Personally, if I'm having really great run/ski, then I'm too focused to notice you beyond tracking your trajectory and giving you space to pass; and if I'm having a really bad run/ski, then I'm too miserable to smile/wave back at you.

  18. #18
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    I pass by at least 15 trail users while commuting each day. Could be skier, runner, walker, getting one of them to reply good morning, smile, or even look at you is around 10% I've found...maybe its me, maybe everyone's to focused to bother, or maybe there just mad at my fatbike leaving a small imprint on the fresh cord...

  19. #19
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordyB
    getting one of them to reply good morning, smile, or even look at you is around 10% I've found...maybe its me...
    No, it's because you live in Los Anchorage. If you lived in a small town like me where people are happy and friendly, everyone would say hi.

  20. #20
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    Um, okay

    [QUOTE=G'Cakes] "intensive","Stink Face.", "too focused" "smile and wave all you want"," stone-cold ignored","high intensity workout" "too focused" "tracking your trajectory", "miserable"


    I REAlly enjoy skate skiing, but what you're into doesn't sound like much fun. To each his own I guess.

    I'll keep smiling and nodding, "stink face" or not.

  21. #21
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    To be sure...

    The trails I see skiers on they are walking skiing, classical I think they call it, on backcountry trails (wolverine bowl, middle fork, powerline trail. I don't care to say hi to everyone either, but when I make an effort to get off of my bike so they can pass, and I do say hi, it's a-hole to look at me through the corner of their eye and not even mutter a response. That's the scenario I'm talking about.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by njbisme
    I REAlly enjoy skate skiing, but what you're into doesn't sound like much fun. To each his own I guess.

    I'll keep smiling and nodding, "stink face" or not.
    What, do you just putz along slowly? 'Cause that sounds wicked boring; but like you say, to each his own. I like to go fast, and going fast tends to involve focus and intensity. And it's really fun, actually; I just smile when I'm done, not during. All I was saying is that you shouldn't take it too personally when someone doesn't return your smile or nod, because it might not be about you at all, but instead relevant to their personal headspace at that moment.

    @Elfbkr50,
    I have no doubt that you're getting glared at, and that sucks. Some people are just bitter that they live in the city, which involves shared space, I guess. I get the same occasionally when biking on the MUP, but as long as you're doing what you can to be courteous and respectful, all you can do is shrug it off and tell yourself that you did what you could.

  23. #23
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    Right you are G'Cakes.

    I can also hold a strong dislike for the haters. Which is amplified by their posts on a mtn. bike forum. That was, and is my only issue here. Everyone on this thread should post some stoke. Tscheezy and I are on it. Let's have a re-birth of bike forum content. Less Bching and more stoke.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  24. #24
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    [QUOTE=G'Cakes]What, do you just putz along slowly? 'Cause that sounds wicked boring; but like you say, to each his own. I like to go fast, and going fast tends to involve focus and intensity. And it's really fun, actually; I just smile when I'm done, not during. All I was saying is that you shouldn't take it too personally when someone doesn't return your smile or nod, because it might not be about you at all, but instead relevant to their personal headspace at that moment.


    THAT'S IT! Let's Race!

  25. #25
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    I'm gonna go rip gasline and poach the bottom part of spencer loop on my non fatbike. I don't have any stoke because I don't have any riding friends. Otherwise I'd post some stoke.

  26. #26
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by G'Cakes
    To be fair, skate skiing can be fairly intensive exercise, so some skiers (myself included) might just be side-eyeing you while trapped in the throes of the winter version of Runner Stink Face.

    When running it's the same thing, being too focused and breathing too hard to bother smiling at every Jack, Tom, and Harry that cycles past me. I'll look at you, maybe lock eyes for a sec, but that's just to make sure that you're watching where you're going.

    You can smile and wave all you want, but don't be shocked if the most you get is a barely noticeable nod, or even stone-cold ignored. Some of us are using the trails for a high intensity workout, not a meet and greet. Personally, if I'm having really great run/ski, then I'm too focused to notice you beyond tracking your trajectory and giving you space to pass; and if I'm having a really bad run/ski, then I'm too miserable to smile/wave back at you.
    So, they're jealous that a competitive cyclist can be out getting an intense workout in and still manage to be enjoying themselves enough to smile?

    While I've gotten an overall pleasant response from other trail users, the ones who haven't been very friendly, which happen to have all been skiers(...), did not appear to be experiencing labored breathing or moving very quickly. It always seems(with the few that appear to have gotten one of their poles wedged up their hind-quarters), that they're more annoyed by the fact that they have to stop taking up the entire 8'+ wide multiuse trail for a few seconds to let someone pass. Most of the skiers I've encountered have been non-negatively responsive, pleasant if not friendly. All of the runners, hikers, dog walkers, and other cyclists I've met have been non-negatively responsive, pleasant if not friendly.

    My guess is that the handful of skiers who are being douchy are simply the douchy summer road cyclists who decided to spend some time off their trainers.


    Regarding bikes on ski trails. I accidentally found myself on a ski-only trail off the Chester Creek Trail when I took one of the little side singletracks where the trail parallels Northern Lights. Got to the other end, turned left on a groomed trail, and when I got to the next intersection, I could see a Ski Only sign on the other side. Looked back and there was one facing the other way behind me as well.

    I have noticed that a lot of the sings in Hillside and Campbell Tract have had marks pinged into them showing what intersection the sign post is at. Thanks to whoever did that.

  27. #27
    is buachail foighneach me
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    And I do have to admit that I laughed when I saw the enormous pile of dog h!t right in the middle of the classic tracks on the trail that heads up to the antenna towers. Nothing against classic skiers, I just thought it was funny.

  28. #28
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    No, it's because you live in Los Anchorage. If you lived in a small town like me where people are happy and friendly, everyone would say hi.
    Ahh, the old, I live in a smaller town than you, therefore that makes me better off than you. Gotta love that one.

    I think people seem more friendly in small towns because they don't have as many people to say hi to and smile at. It's more manageable. When I commute on the Chester Creek Trail I don't say hi or smile at every person that passes. That would get exhausting. When I walk around New York City I certainly don't say hi to everyone. I do believe you'd get beat up for that.

    I get glared at by the skiers in Anchorage too, but I've also gotten that same look from guys on fat bikes. I think it's the people and not necessarily their mode of transportation. There are always going to be a-holes.

    In general I think this thread is a nice friendly reminder for new people each year to not ride on the groomed trails.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules16
    Ahh, the old, I live in a smaller town than you, therefore that makes me better off than you. Gotta love that one.

    In general I think this thread is a nice friendly reminder for new people each year to not ride on the groomed trails.
    I agree about the reminder, but this has nothing to do with the size of the city ("Los Anchorage" has always been an egregious example of exaggeration, by the way). The problem with rude Anchorage skiers comes down to basic human decency and politeness. Many of this town's Nordic skiers are severely lacking in those areas. Let's stop *****-footin' around it and just acknowledge that a rude prick is a rude prick.

    As for the whole idea of small towns being so much nicer (I'm a recovering small-towner, by the way), I'm reminded of a friend who told a funny story from his years in Kodiak. He described waving and saying hello to acquaintances on the street, only to be ignored for months at a time.

    Then the sun would finally come out, and people who had previously scowled at him would nearly jump out of their vehicles as they stuck their heads and arms out the windows to wave and yell, "Hey! How ya doin'?"
    Enjoying the meaningful pursuit of meaningless fun.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules16
    In general I think this thread is a nice friendly reminder for new people each year to not ride on the groomed trails.
    Try to be more accurate, folks are already confused.

    Groomed trails do not indicate the use pattern, signs do. Most trails are clearly marked. Plenty allow bikes.

  31. #31
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    Highest precentile of ******bags user of public trails(IMO):

    1) Equestrians

    2)ATV riders

    3)People that let their dogs run loose/ Bringing their dogs out on trails just to poo then leaving.

    4)X-C skiers

    5)MTB riders

    6)

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