Llama trail and losers- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Llama trail and losers

    What the heck? Some ******* cut a bunch of roots out of the Llama trail. Just because you canít ride it doesnít mean you should be permanently altering all the fun little challenging features for the rest of us.
    Shame on you whoever did that.

  2. #2
    Raubgee
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    Sweet!

    Another trail to take my road bike on.

  3. #3
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    Bounty?

    Same deal - different year!!! What section?

    Maybe we should put out a bounty?

  4. #4
    Diaskeuast
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubgee
    Another trail to take my road bike on.
    Those roots were wreaking havoc with my Pisten Bully. Now, if I could only straighten out all those annoying turns ...

  5. #5
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    mowing

    on the bright side, someone mowed the grass on lower llama & Moose Ridge (maybe upper Llama as well, didn't get there).

  6. #6
    Wood chips are stupid
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    softy poo poo pants

    If you cut the roots on that trail,and you are reading this post....you are a milk toast rider with no skill in your future. If that offends you, PM me and I'll tell you what I really think.


    akdeluxe
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  7. #7
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    Sorry

    They were such nice roots, I had to move them to my new trail. Hopefully they'll grow back.

    Just kiddin', 'twernt me.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  8. #8
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    Brush Clearing

    I know who did the brush clearing but I don't think that person would be one to cut out any roots. He is one who normally likes things being technical so would be more likely to add things given the chance that take anything out.

    I just rode lower Llama yesterday and nothing seemed to have been changed on that since the last time up there with regards to tree roots. May have missed a couple of spots since I was riding blind at times with the sun in my eyes.

  9. #9
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    Lower trail is missing a huge root right at the intersection halfway up the trail. It WAS a fun move because the spacing was such with other roots you could stick your front wheel if you didn't do it right. A little ways up there are some other roots missing and a stump that was in a great spot where you had to time you're pedals just right to miss it, most noticeable when going up the trail.

    Upper trail is missing several roots and a tricky little log you had to go over. Total bummer. This was a great spot to clinic with the Mighty Bikes, but no longer.

  10. #10

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    root cutters wanted

    don't understand why people assume that easier is better, which of course applies to more than roots on trails.
    if you find out who did this can you send them down here to juneau to cut some roots out of trails? we have plenty of trails down here where easier would be better... in that they might actually be possible to ride without all the roots.

  11. #11
    HowtoOverthrowtheSystem
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    Quote Originally Posted by akdeluxe
    If you cut the roots on that trail,and you are reading this post....you are a milk toast rider with no skill in your future. If that offends you, PM me and I'll tell you what I really think.


    akdeluxe
    PM sent

  12. #12
    Caveman
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    How about someone sticks a sign in the ground at the site of the chopped roots with something like "If you cant ride the trail as it is.. then dont ride it - questions? call Pete for an ass whoopin"

    seriously... its probably the best way to make the person who did it know that they are pissing people off by it and not making the trail better for everyone.

  13. #13
    Mr.Secret
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    After forwarding the link too this thread as well as a couple general e-mails to me about the situation, I had a chance to talk too the person that removed some roots (while also taking two days to weed whack pretty much the entire length of the trail. I can only think of two other people who've ever cleared a trail of parsnip, devils club, wind fallen trees etc. while at the same time gettin' chewed up by the insects, and one of those two ain't me, and for that they should be much appreciated ) After reading about it he honestly couldn't sleep last night. He is genuinely very sorry and could've never imagined what he did would negatively affect so many people including myself. It doesn't really matter who did it, it's done and he's sorry ( kind'a wish our so called " Commander in Chief " could be so sorry for the "ROOTS" he's chopped out, but that's a different story and totally off topic, sorry.Sometimes, if you get down too it, there's bigger and badder" things "going on out there than anything that could happen too the Llama trail ) .........................BTW, anytime he wants to weed whack for two days, heck, he can wear MY weed whacker out and I'd even buy the gas, but I'm ' gonna hafta' confiscate his chainsaw. ..... 'nuff said.........
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    Last edited by R.T.R.; 08-16-2007 at 05:31 AM.
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  14. #14
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    No good deed goes unpunished

    Hey RTR, send this guy out to our work day Saturday, we've got some roots that are on death row and I doubt anyone will miss them when they're gone. The thing about trail work is (having done my fair share of it and then some): it seems like no matter what you do, how careful you are, and how hard it was to do, somebody somewhere's gonna be upset about it, so since you're the one that's actually out there doing the work and they're not, do it to your own satisfaction and don't worry about the outcry. Like you said, there's very few people that will take the time and initiative to go out and maintain the trails on their own time. Hat's off on my part. Trust me, more roots will appear in no time along with another sweet crop of pushki, alders, and devil's club.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
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  15. #15
    Mr.Secret
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildfire
    Hey RTR, send this guy out to our work day Saturday, we've got some roots that are on death row and I doubt anyone will miss them when they're gone. The thing about trail work is (having done my fair share of it and then some): it seems like no matter what you do, how careful you are, and how hard it was to do, somebody somewhere's gonna be upset about it, so since you're the one that's actually out there doing the work and they're not, do it to your own satisfaction and don't worry about the outcry. Like you said, there's very few people that will take the time and initiative to go out and maintain the trails on their own time. Hat's off on my part. Trust me, more roots will appear in no time along with another sweet crop of pushki, alders, and devil's club.
    OK as long as he's under your supervision Guess I'll haf'ta give him back his chainsaw.....
    ...think we'll ever get outta' this world alive ?...

  16. #16
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    Well I appreciated the trail grooming. First time I ride Llama was today... and what happens? I get chased down the trail by a moose. Sure made for a speedy descent.

  17. #17
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    Was this done....

    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger
    What the heck? Some ******* cut a bunch of roots out of the Llama trail. Just because you canít ride it doesnít mean you should be permanently altering all the fun little challenging features for the rest of us.
    Shame on you whoever did that.
    Was this done to prepare for a MTB race?? I was riding upper hill-side and there were flags and a lot of tire marks on Llama. What a shame. Please don't tell me this was done for a race.

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  18. #18
    Mr.Secret
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser
    Was this done to prepare for a MTB race?? I was riding upper hill-side and there were flags and a lot of tire marks on Llama. What a shame. Please don't tell me this was done for a race.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    It probably was done with the race in mind for the race that was held on the Hillside this past weekend. See my first post on this topic and read it again............It is OK to have races on the Hillside trails isn't it ? Kincaid has to get really boring as a venue for all the MTB events. Back when I was racing we had venues all over South Central Ak. as well as several other places in the Municipality. Sadly with the lack of volunteers to help setup /take down the courses, the one or two individuals who take the time and effort to put on events are pretty easily overwhelmed with having to do it all. Take the Single Track Advocates group, Wildfire, et all, while having a pretty solid group of individuals doing ALL the work, there are far and away more people benefiting from the HARD WORK these folks do without ever getting out there and LIFTING A FINGER TO HELP, let alone donating a few bucks for the work they accomplish. So yeah, the Llama trail did have some terrain features altered but as was said before the individual responsible was very disappointed that he made some people angry / disappointed with his actions. Get over it.
    ...think we'll ever get outta' this world alive ?...

  19. #19
    Wood chips are stupid
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    Lets hug

    I have to agree with RTR(rare). Even though the action is against almost everything I personally want for our trails,the deed was done to help .Good intentions were on the mind of the lopper. It was an honest mistake. He now knows it was very unpopular and will not do it again, unlike another user group which needs not to be mentioned.Nordic Ski Club. If anyone here wants something to complain about, take a look at Kincaid right now. I choose to forgive him as well. Do not PM me, I'm on vacation.

    akdeluxe
    Last edited by akdeluxe; 08-20-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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  20. #20
    Mr.Secret
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    I want to add one more thing, the guy that did the trail tweaks wasn't doing it for some personal, selfish reason, he was honestly thinking that it would be appreciated. Heck, the guy could blow just about anybody on this boards doors off and happily eat their lunch too at TECHNICAL MTB'ing, skiing, snow boarding, mountain running, whatever, at the same time being one of the nicest folks out there. He'd probably even give ya a head start too.
    ...think we'll ever get outta' this world alive ?...

  21. #21
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    Get Over it

    Quote Originally Posted by R.T.R.
    It probably was done with the race in mind for the race that was held on the Hillside this past weekend. See my first post on this topic and read it again............It is OK to have races on the Hillside trails isn't it ? Kincaid has to get really boring as a venue for all the MTB events. Back when I was racing we had venues all over South Central Ak. as well as several other places in the Municipality. Sadly with the lack of volunteers to help setup /take down the courses, the one or two individuals who take the time and effort to put on events are pretty easily overwhelmed with having to do it all. Take the Single Track Advocates group, Wildfire, et all, while having a pretty solid group of individuals doing ALL the work, there are far and away more people benefiting from the HARD WORK these folks do without ever getting out there and LIFTING A FINGER TO HELP, let alone donating a few bucks for the work they accomplish. So yeah, the Llama trail did have some terrain features altered but as was said before the individual responsible was very disappointed that he made some people angry / disappointed with his actions. Get over it.
    Get over it...what the hell are you talking about?? That was a legit question and STA or any individual trail user or race group did not have the proper permission to alter that trail.

    STA, races, and trail volunteerism or lack of volunteerism has nothing to do with the annual removal of roots on LLama by individuals. Any alterations to established trails on public and managed lands should be done only with those entities sanctioning them. If completed independently some people are going to appreciate them and some people will be pissed. For some reason there is always some group pissed about something.

    Speaking to your diatribe, do you fish or hunt? Have you ever contributed to a habitat improvement or education program? Do you boat or kayak? Have you ever cleaned a beach or built a boat launch? Do you ski? Have you ever groomed a trail? My point is, with all due respect to STA and their amazing and unappreciated hard work, just because you use trails doesn't make you obligated to build them. A trail user's only real obligation and responsibility is to be respectful of other users and to the trail. All else is additional and purely altruistic. Some people don't like trail work or can't do it. Others like most in our society do not connect the dots between good trails and volunteerism. The 1 or 2 people that put on the races do so because they want to.Focus on being respectful of other users and get over your self righteousness.

  22. #22
    Mr.Secret
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    Quote Originally Posted by akdeluxe
    I have to agree with RTR(rare). Even though the action is against almost everything I personally want for our trails,the deed was done to help .Good intentions were on the mind of the lopper. It was an honest mistake. He now knows it was very unpopular and will not do it again, unlike another user group which needs not to be mentioned.Nordic Ski Club. If anyone here wants something to complain about, take a look at Kincaid right now. I choose forgive him as well. Do not PM me, I'm on vacation.

    akdeluxe
    Glad we could agree on that one. Now if I could just get'cha to switch from Shimano too SRAM then you would really begin to 'see the light' grasshopper. Dare I ask how the weather is in Az. ? The swamps are getting deeper here as I speak.
    ...think we'll ever get outta' this world alive ?...

  23. #23
    Mr.Secret
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhalla
    Get over it...what the hell are you talking about?? That was a legit question and STA or any individual trail user or race group did not have the proper permission to alter that trail.

    STA, races, and trail volunteerism or lack of volunteerism has nothing to do with the annual removal of roots on LLama by individuals. Any alterations to established trails on public and managed lands should be done only with those entities sanctioning them. If completed independently some people are going to appreciate them and some people will be pissed. For some reason there is always some group pissed about something.

    Speaking to your diatribe, do you fish or hunt? Have you ever contributed to a habitat improvement or education program? Do you boat or kayak? Have you ever cleaned a beach or built a boat launch? Do you ski? Have you ever groomed a trail? My point is, with all due respect to STA and their amazing and unappreciated hard work, just because you use trails doesn't make you obligated to build them. A trail user's only real obligation and responsibility is to be respectful of other users and to the trail. All else is additional and purely altruistic. Some people don't like trail work or can't do it. Others like most in our society do not connect the dots between good trails and volunteerism. The 1 or 2 people that put on the races do so because they want to.Focus on being respectful of other users and get over your self righteousness.
    Touch a nerve did I ? Rant on 'cause I don't really know where yer com'in from. I'll make sure if I get a chance, to make sure the individual involved gets clearance from you before he ties his shoes in the morning. How's that ?
    ...think we'll ever get outta' this world alive ?...

  24. #24
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    Please don't miss understand me....

    Quote Originally Posted by R.T.R.
    Get over it.
    I'm all for competitive racing on the hillside and else where. I'm just suprised this action was done in a vaccum by a single individual. When race organizers and officals are making these types of unilateral decisions about our trails without proper communication then we have bigger issues on our hands. Wouldn't you agree??

    You are right. Not enough educated people are helping with trail maintainance. No single person should be allowed to make a mess like this. It's a classic case of us being our own worst enemy. The irony couldn't be better scripted... No?

    So, another crux is gone and there's no problem getting over it. Is that what you mean??

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  25. #25
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    Par for the coures - you don't get it. Never said anything about clearing anything with me.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser
    I'm all for competitive racing on the hillside and else where. I'm just suprised this action was done in a vaccum by a single individual. When race organizers and officals are making these types of unilateral decisions about our trails without proper communication then we have bigger issues on our hands. Wouldn't you agree??

    You are right. Not enough educated people are helping with trail maintainance. No single person should be allowed to make a mess like this. It's a classic case of us being our own worst enemy. The irony couldn't be better scripted... No?

    So, another crux is gone and there's no problem getting over it. Is that what you mean??

    Regards,

    EndUser
    I think most understood you

  27. #27
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    Good post....

    and well argued. There is no excuse for what happened and it's only made worse because a race volunteer did the cutting. The ignorance and lack of communication this exhibits is quite disturbing.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

  28. #28
    Mr.Secret
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser
    I'm all for competitive racing on the hillside and else where. I'm just suprised this action was done in a vaccum by a single individual. When race organizers and officals are making these types of unilateral decisions about our trails without proper communication then we have bigger issues on our hands. Wouldn't you agree??

    You are right. Not enough educated people are helping with trail maintainance. No single person should be allowed to make a mess like this. It's a classic case of us being our own worst enemy. The irony couldn't be better scripted... No?

    So, another crux is gone and there's no problem getting over it. Is that what you mean??

    Regards,

    EndUser
    Hmmm, I was very disappointed when I found out what occured and was pissed about it. I love the technical climbing aspect of the Llama trail and that's now changed as we knew it ,but hey, like I said, it's done and short of going back up there and spiking the cut roots back in place ain't nothing that can be done about what's been undone.......I've been MTB'ing the Hillside trails for almost 25 yrs. and remember, for example, how Rover's Run used to be a 12 to 15" single track top to bottom, now look at it. That ain't ever coming back and I just learned to accept it, don't like it, but that's the way it is. It's just a lot of people / user groups pounding away at a, relatively speaking, small area. EndUser, I do agree with you. It seems, unfortunatly by nature, we're a very independent minded group and have a hard time finding the time to come together about such situations and take it upon ourselves to do something that might be a negative to how someone else might think things should be. Sorry if I offended anybody with my thoughts / comments. But having said that, I'm still tight jawed with whoever it was that thought putting wood chips on some trails a couple years ago was a " good idea ", unless you like riding on ball bearings.
    Last edited by R.T.R.; 08-20-2007 at 04:53 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.T.R.
    Hmmm, I was very disappointed when I found out what occured and was pissed about it. I love the technical climbing aspect of the Llama trail and that's now changed as we knew it ,but hey, like I said, it's done and short of going back up there and spiking the cut roots back in place ain't nothing that can be done about what's been undone.......I've been MTB'ing the Hillside trails for almost 25 yrs. and remember, for example, how Rover's Run used to be a 12 to 15" single track top to bottom, now look at it. That ain't ever coming back and I just learned to accept it, don't like it, but that's the way it is. It's just a lot of people / user groups pounding away at a, relatively speaking, small area. Sorry if I offended anybody with my thoughts.
    Speaking of Rover's, and I would love to help fix this, those mud holes are BAD (and getting worse) even when it was drier out. It seems that it is an essential trail to complete most loops and there doesn't seem to be any way to discourage people from using it. Does anyone know if there is a plan to help that trail?

  30. #30
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    It takes a lot more to offend me.

    I just put 2 & 2 together this weekend while riding Llama and the thought of race volunteers messing with the trail struck me as a clear example of a communication break down. My fears have been confirmed.

    Race officials/volunteers need to start talking to STA and other organizations before any event is planned. This could have been prevented. If we don't have control over our volunteers then really what do we have control over? It's a tailspin from my perspective.

    Long live Llama.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

  31. #31
    Wood chips are stupid
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    The next level

    Ok, some feel the root removal was a horrible sin. The end is near and there cannot be any reason for such and act and there will not be any forgiveness or "moving on". Now what? What is the next move? Here are the options...
    1.Stay mad and run this thread into the ground
    2.Simple. Get over it and start helping the cause by lending a hand at trail maintance and building days. Join the local clubs and let your opinions and solutions be heard(beyond the key board) so that maybe ignorance like this will not go to far again. Support the local bicycle shops. When you are in there, talk with the owners and emploees. They have ears on the back of their heads and decent memories. These are the attitudes that can bring a user group together and gets things done...it also gives you a leg to stand on when somthing to gripe about comes along.

    akdeluxe
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    JT

  32. #32
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    1-2-3

    1) Personally, I’m not mad, but I'm certainly not going to be apathetic nor apologetic about it (as some here seem to be). If I was mad, I’d confirm who did it and “accidentally” drop a tree on their car. I’m much, much, much worse with a chainsaw than the original perp.

    2) This forum is invaluable for people like me who are already over extended in life and can’t get involved at the grass root level. Perhaps someday, but not right now. This forum is read by all and it’s my sounding board for issues. So, please take my thoughts and share them at club events. They are as valid here as they would be delivering them in person.

    3) I’m over it, but I was never under it in the first place. I’m just pointing out the simple fact that organizations need to speak to each other before such events are planned. I find it silly that the right hand (ABC) doesn’t know what the left hand (STA) is doing. That’s just knee slapping silly and my knee is bloody from all the slapp'n, I tell ya.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

  33. #33
    We want... a shrubbery!
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    Since I just got up here this summer (and well, I'm actually out of town for work unfortunately right now), who (or what group) is in charge of trail maintenance in the area? Back in VA, I did a lot of trailwork (even managed to get my university to approve an independent study/thesis on it!) with the dominant trail work group (the local mountain biking club), and once I'm back in Anchorage, I'd be more than willing in planning maintenance and new construction of trails. Ok, (no more) parentheses I promise. ()
    Last edited by ickyickyptngzutboing; 08-20-2007 at 09:11 PM.
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  34. #34
    Wood chips are stupid
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    Your solution is!

    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser
    1) Personally, Iím not mad, but I'm certainly not going to be apathetic nor apologetic about it (as some here seem to be). If I was mad, Iíd confirm who did it and ďaccidentallyĒ drop a tree on their car. Iím much, much, much worse with a chainsaw than the original perp.

    2) This forum is invaluable for people like me who are already over extended in life and canít get involved at the grass root level. Perhaps someday, but not right now. This forum is read by all and itís my sounding board for issues. So, please take my thoughts and share them at club events. They are as valid here as they would be delivering them in person.

    3) Iím over it, but I was never under it in the first place. Iím just pointing out the simple fact that organizations need to speak to each other before such events are planned. I find it silly that the right hand (ABC) doesnít know what the left hand (STA) is doing. Thatís just knee slapping silly and my knee is bloody from all the slapp'n, I tell ya.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    Since this forum has its thumb on the heart beat of Mt Biking in Anchorage, now is your chance to provide a solution to all of it's silly problems. We're all ears.

    akdeluxe
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    JT

  35. #35
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    Solution.... in this case

    Quote Originally Posted by akdeluxe
    Since this forum has its thumb on the heart beat of Mt Biking in Anchorage, now is your chance to provide a solution to all of it's silly problems. We're all ears.

    akdeluxe
    Communication between trail advocacy group, STA, and local race series organizers, ABC. There is a linkÖ.. I know of at least one person who participates in both groups... that is the solution. A very clear and simple set of rules and expectations could be formed with regards to race preparation and trail sweeping. I'm quite sure if these conversations take place before events individuals will not be permitted to dumb-down our crown jewels of single-track (which are not many in the bowl). Ride on.

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  36. #36
    Wood chips are stupid
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    Good answer

    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser
    Communication between trail advocacy group, STA, and local race series organizers, ABC. There is a linkÖ.. I know of at least one person who participates in both groups... that is the solution. A very clear and simple set of rules and expectations could be formed with regards to race preparation and trail sweeping. I'm quite sure if these conversations take place before events individuals will not be permitted to dumb-down our crown jewels of single-track (which are not many in the bowl). Ride on.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    We are headed in that direction. It will take time. You could say we are blessed, in a "the cup is half full" kind of way, by the limited miles of singletrack in the Anch area. It has forced us to open our eyes and make a move. If just a fraction of the local cyclist in Anch put a little effort into the big picture, Anchorage would be an outstanding biking city. It has been done countless times in other venues in the lower 48. Even the suits who run this town and the parks have expressed interest in a extensive network of trails. I hope it happens while I can still ride a f###### bike.

    akdeluxe
    "Trust me,you don't want a big baby."

    JT

  37. #37
    HowtoOverthrowtheSystem
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    Anyone have a Bobcat I can borrow? I've tried to clear Brown Bear without dabbing, but I can't seem to do it. Some joker made this tricky bridge thing that I need to remove.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhalla
    Get over it...what the hell are you talking about?? That was a legit question and STA or any individual trail user or race group did not have the proper permission to alter that trail.

    STA, races, and trail volunteerism or lack of volunteerism has nothing to do with the annual removal of roots on LLama by individuals. Any alterations to established trails on public and managed lands should be done only with those entities sanctioning them. If completed independently some people are going to appreciate them and some people will be pissed. For some reason there is always some group pissed about something.

    Speaking to your diatribe, do you fish or hunt? Have you ever contributed to a habitat improvement or education program? Do you boat or kayak? Have you ever cleaned a beach or built a boat launch? Do you ski? Have you ever groomed a trail? My point is, with all due respect to STA and their amazing and unappreciated hard work, just because you use trails doesn't make you obligated to build them. A trail user's only real obligation and responsibility is to be respectful of other users and to the trail. All else is additional and purely altruistic. Some people don't like trail work or can't do it. Others like most in our society do not connect the dots between good trails and volunteerism. The 1 or 2 people that put on the races do so because they want to.Focus on being respectful of other users and get over your self righteousness.
    Ah... Feel the heat! I love a nice fire.

  39. #39
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    crown jewels of singletrack

    My friends smith & wesson are looking for a riding partner with an overzealous chainsaw... we know this great technical move right into a 6 foot hole. Killer

  40. #40
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    To prove a point.....

    Quote Originally Posted by akdodger
    My friends smith & wesson are looking for a riding partner with an overzealous chainsaw... we know this great technical move right into a 6 foot hole. Killer
    I've been discussing a stupid bet with a friend that I could probably ride up Llama on a road bike. I never would have considered this five years ago, but in this time at least five major cruxes (the hardest ones by my reckoning) have been removed. We are now negotiating the number of dabs. Conservatively, I've ridden the trail at least 100 times in the last ten years and clean it consistently, but now I think I can ride it on a road bike (with a triple) in 10 dabs or less. What do you think??

    Regards,

    EndUser
    Last edited by EndUser; 08-30-2007 at 04:39 PM.
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

  41. #41
    Ologist
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    Last time I had to deal with something like that I just drenched it in gasoline

  42. #42

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    Okay, I admit I'm clueless. Now that's out of the way will someone please PM me where the heck Llama is? I've been all over spencer, the park loops, black bear, brown bear, gas line... the snotponds west of gasline... where is this crown jewel?

    I promise I'll leave my chainsaw at home.

  43. #43
    Still can't fool gravity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanuq
    Okay, I admit I'm clueless. Now that's out of the way will someone please PM me where the heck Llama is? I've been all over spencer, the park loops, black bear, brown bear, gas line... the snotponds west of gasline... where is this crown jewel?

    I promise I'll leave my chainsaw at home.
    LLama trail.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  44. #44
    HowtoOverthrowtheSystem
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser
    I've been discussing a stupid bet with a friend that I could probably ride up Llama on a road bike. I never would have considered this five years ago, but in this time at least five major cruxes (the hardest ones by my reckoning) have been removed. We are now negotiating the number of dabs. Conservatively, I've ridden the trail at least 100 times in the last ten years and clean it consistently, but now I think I can ride it on a road bike (with a triple) in 10 dabs or less. What do you think??

    Regards,

    EndUser
    I rode most of Black Bear (dabbed couple times and went over bars once) on my Surly Long Haul Trucker with fenders, giant kickstand and full racks. They were having one of the Hillside races and I had to keep pulling off for the racers zooming by. I was keeping up with one guy climbing up a hill and he was laughing at me. Haha!

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