Indoor Bike Park- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Indoor Bike Park

    Taking the lead and the popularity of Ray's Indoor Bike Park Do you think something like this could draw enough business to stay in business? Granted Ray's is being visited by folks from around the midwest, it just seems like if anyplace was appropriate for an indoor bike park it would be here.

  2. #2
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
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    i think it would. in fact, i think a whole indoor complex would be ideal. velodrome, mtb park, skate park.... could even make it a multisport complex too. indoor track, pool, rock climbing, gymnatics, maybe a turf athletic field.. anyone got a spare million or three??

    i really think something like that up here could be a huge success. might be difficult from a private ownership perspective in anchorage, what with the price of land. go a bit north and it might become more fiscally manageable. otherwise it would have to be state/city with sponsorship.

  3. #3
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    It would very feasible if the price of real estate in Town was equitable to the Valley Does anyone know if commercial property in Eagle River is as outrageous as Anchorage? It would seem that you might need to have a complex like this in Anchorage to get the most patronage.

  4. #4
    is buachail foighneach me
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    i'm guessing at least 3 acres would be needed too. unless it was just going to be a mtb park. i just don't think there's a big enough customer base up here to support a mtb only park anywhere near town.

  5. #5
    Fatback
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    Hey Valhalla-this isn't Fish and Game's new bear policy is it (indoor mtb park)? Just kidding. I could go for the velodrome with a beer garden.
    Speedway Cycles owner http://fatbackbikes.com

  6. #6
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    Yeah, That is where I was going with this - There are no problems with bears if you never have to go outside!!
    Last edited by Valhalla; 10-24-2008 at 03:44 PM.

  7. #7
    It's All About We!
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    Yeah, a velodrome! So we could do this...
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  8. #8

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    It's a good idea, but the cost of insurance usually makes these kinds of things impractical...

  9. #9
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    Forget the velodrome

    I just want that bike.

  10. #10

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    what about the dirt bike track out in kincaid park, who manages that, i'm sure whoever got that set up would have some idea of how to get something started.
    And i think once you have a place to go more people will start that kind of biking.
    It be great if its indoors for winter!! that be awsome.

  11. #11
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    If they got enough interest to build (or inflate) that monstrosity of an indoor driving range over off of the New Seward, you guys should be able to drum up enough interest for an indoor bike park.

    The insurance will, indeed, be a limiting factor. A few years ago I was going to build an indoor skate park out in the valley and I remember the insurance quotes were pretty significant. On the flip side of that coin though, if you built the park with enough diversity in mind there would be plenty of patronage to offset the cost.
    .....cheatin' life, and peelin' out on the lawn.........
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  12. #12

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    Thoughts

    Ray's in a unique thing. There at least a few reasons why it works as it does when it would work not in just about any other location.

    Formost is the location. Ray's is located in a reasonably large population center (Cleveland has well more than 475,000 people) and surrounded by other heavily populated areas such as Cincinnati (330,000+), Columbus (711,000+), Pittsburg (334,000+), and Detroit (950,000+). All of those cities are within 125 miles or so of Cleveland. For comparison, the state of Alaska has a population of around 670,000 based on the same year's census numbers. Ray's is also within reasonable driving distance (and I know pulls visit from) Chicago, Buffalo, Baltimore, New York City, Indianapolis, and Philadelphia. Most of those cities are within a long weekend road-trip for avid bikers. Ray's also pulls from Canada and does get international visitors due to it's ease of travel from many large international airports located close by. All this means that Ray's literally pulls business from a reasonably close population of millions.

    A portion of Ray's success is sponsorship. Big companies pay and/or supply equipment, etc to be associated with the business. They pay due to the exposure that Ray's provides. It is doubtful that such sponsors would have as much interest when the potential for exposure is so much lower.

    Ray's is about 97,000 square feet currently. For comparison, an average Albertson's grocery store runs about 43,000 square feet. Imagining that you are able to lease a dirt cheap location at, let's say $.25 per square foot, a 43,000 square foor building will run more than $10,000 per month to lease...97,000 square feet at 25 cents per is $24,250 per month. That's alot of entry fees just to cover your base rent. Figure in other expenses and it is extremely tough to make it pencil. Figure in materials and construction costs (either for the building of the structures or for down-time loss while you build it yourself) as well. Ray was smiled upon by the biking gods (he deserved to be) in finding the location he did at the cost he did. There are reasons why every major city doesn't have it's Ray's. Insurance is actually one of the easier pieces of the puzzle...it is surprisingly inexpensive if you have no losses (meaning that you pray that riders have the "it was my own fault, I'm not going to sue" mentality) and get the riders to sign away all rights of claim.

    The list goes on, but you get the idea.

    If you have never visited Ray's...go check it out. It is an AMAZING place and Ray is a great guy. It is worth the trip and I consider it a lifetime must-do for avid bikers. I've made the trip from the west coast and I will go again.

  13. #13
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    i think it would. in fact, i think a whole indoor complex would be ideal. velodrome, mtb park, skate park.... could even make it a multisport complex too. indoor track, pool, rock climbing, gymnatics, maybe a turf athletic field.. anyone got a spare million or three??

    i really think something like that up here could be a huge success. might be difficult from a private ownership perspective in anchorage, what with the price of land. go a bit north and it might become more fiscally manageable. otherwise it would have to be state/city with sponsorship.

    if it were to be combined with enough other activities, i think it could work as a local or state government backed venture. with a broad enough customer base driven by diverse activities, and corporate sponsorship, the financial costs could easilly be covered. the state/boroughs already have land that would work. cost would be the building, employees, upkeep/overhead and insurance.

    position it adjacent to a popular outdoors area and you serve an even bigger customer base. keppler/crevasse? hillside? kincaid area?

  14. #14

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    wow thats some numbers!!!

  15. #15
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    Good analysis and it supports how I thought Rays was able to make ends meet. It is all in the numbers so my original question which seems to have been answered, is that it may be possible for a small indoor place to exist, but it won't get the ridership or sponsorship to survive in a place where real estate is quickly becoming unaffordable. I personally don't there are enough riders around here to keep a place going which is too bad

  16. #16

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    Well, alyeska is opening more trails next season, so lets just wait and see. Maybe it becomes the NEW WHISTLER!! *Dream Dream*
    i think they do have some potential though!!

  17. #17
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    I am with you on that. If they develop it right it could rival Whistler - with less riders!!

  18. #18
    let's ride...
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    About two years ago, i hunted for a building to lease or land to buy for an indoor skate/bmx park. It turned out to be an exercise in futility. The location would need to be in the Anchorage bowl to generate the required traffic, and that meant real estate that was prohibitively costly. $2 million for the old office supply store at Northway mall (and it came with a series of columns throughout the space that might have made it unworkable). The best option was Skateland on the south side. Open space and tall ceilings. Again, the cost per square foot was a joke.

    The best that riders could hope for in A-town would be a covered, concrete or modular park. Designed by riders, it could be built on the smaller side and still be interesting. How many covered pavillions dot the landscape here in town? Couldn't the muni be pressed to provide an amenity for the non hockey playing crowd..?

  19. #19
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    I have searcehd for buildings here in Phoenix AZ and surrounding cities. $0.65/ sqf is about average here. I foudn the perfect building. A huge furniture wharehouse + showroom close to freeway access and our new light rail. The killer was the 80,000 PER MONTH lease, or I could buy it for 9mil.
    Got Daytons on the Motha Ship - Cube

  20. #20
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    Ouch! And I am sure it would be considerably more than 0.65 sqf here.

  21. #21
    Bikes are good
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    Not sure,,

    If they have the full go ahead at Alyeska. I've heard the owner is just opening the tram for biking down. This, would be actually kind of lame, and dangerous, but maybe a start I guess. I was at Whistler two summers ago and it made me ill to think we have a mountain that just sits there in the summer. Whistler reported higher earnings in the summer last year than they did in the winter. It could be huge. Build trails that are rideable by all, and rideable only by the crazy bastards, and it would be perfect.

  22. #22
    The king is on fire
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    Ray's is super fun, a bunch of us make a weekend trip there at least 3 times a season. The issue with anchorage is that people aren't going to fly from the west coast to anchorage. An indoor bike ANYTHING would be nice up there but it won't be near as successful as rays...or I-5 Colonnade.
    Have fun.

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