Derailleurless Multi-Speed- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Derailleurless Multi-Speed

    DMS
    Derailleurless Multi-Speed


    Surly Pugsley Framset
    Surly Whirly Crankset

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/3112198946/" title="dms2 by qayaq, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/3112198946_eafdd44833.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="dms2" /></a>

    Phil Cassette Hub
    Paul Tensioner
    Surly SS Cog / 22t

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/3111365331/" title="dms5 by qayaq, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/3111365331_e11ca7b88b.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="dms5" /></a>

    Surly and Salsa Rings
    22t / 30t / 33t

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/3111366219/" title="dms4 by qayaq, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/3111366219_18e60455a3.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="dms4" /></a>

    3 Speed Manual Transmission...Simple
    Two Main Gear Ratios: 39.5 / 43.5 gearinches
    Bailout Gear Ratio: 29.0 gearinches

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/martinleonard/3112199516/" title="dms1 by qayaq, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/3112199516_a8a1396f9d.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="dms1" /></a>

    And if you're really good...you can shift with a flick of the toe!


    _
    Last edited by qayaq_alaska; 12-22-2008 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #2
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    i like it!

  3. #3
    @adelorenzo
    Reputation: anthony.delorenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,670
    I like the concept, but personally, I wouldn't want to have a chainline that wasn't straight.

    I prefer this approach to derailleurless multi-speed, you get eight of them :


  4. #4
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    13,474
    Impressive execution, Martin.

    Not my idea of a good time, but kudos for doing it and well.

    Cheers,

    MC

  5. #5

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Been There...

    Done That...still riding the Wildfire with a Rohloff setup...gotta admit, its nice...but there is still beauty in simplicity. Very nice looking setup...what is the weight?

    Sooooo whatz up Tony...you motto WAS "less gears more beers"...what is it NOW "more gears less beers"...lol, shame on you!

    ______

    Lets us all know when that hub goes to rock there in WHorse...my guess ~ -20dF.

    ML

    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo
    I like the concept, but personally, I wouldn't want to have a chainline that wasn't straight.

    I prefer this approach to derailleurless multi-speed, you get eight of them :

    Last edited by qayaq_alaska; 12-16-2008 at 08:21 PM.

  6. #6

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Quyana

    Glad you like it...HEY...its ALL a good time...right?

    [Although my quads are still burning from this last snowfall]

    BTW...to answer your question from the Pugs and 100s posting:
    If you look at the pic of the rearend you can see the Paul tensioner does not have that much downward reach...in order to get the first roller past 22t cog I had to bring the wheel back a bit...as is, just barely fits.

    Cheers,

    ML

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Impressive execution, Martin.

    Not my idea of a good time, but kudos for doing it and well.

    Cheers,

    MC
    Last edited by qayaq_alaska; 12-16-2008 at 08:23 PM.

  7. #7
    @adelorenzo
    Reputation: anthony.delorenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,670
    Quote Originally Posted by qayaq_alaska
    Done That...still riding the Wildfire with a Rohloff setup...gotta admit, its nice...but there is still beauty in simplicity. Very nice looking setup...what is the weight?

    Sooooo whatz up Tony...you motto WAS "less gears more beers"...what is it NOW "more gears less beers"...lol, shame on you!

    Lets us all know when that hub goes to rock there in WHorse...my guess ~ -20dF.
    Hehe, yeah, I know... I still ride one gear on my mountain bike, but having gears on the Pugs opens up a lot more riding possibilities. I found out last winter that it is hard to stand up and hammer a single gear on a snowy climb, you just spin out.

    Not sure what our setups weigh... A friend has a Rohloff pugs that is about 37, so I would think that we're in that range somewhere.

    I have had mine out on a 4-hour ride at -27 C with no issues. The wife's worked fine on the commute this morning at -36 C. I have heard from someone in Dawson that the hub didn't shift well or at all below -30 but it would always engage to pedal. Alfines use the silent clutch design which is supposed to be pretty reliable in cold temps.

  8. #8
    @adelorenzo
    Reputation: anthony.delorenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,670
    Update to that.... Yesterday the wife's Alfine (stored inside) was fine both ways on the -35 commute... BUT... When she left it outside for a couple of hours at yoga class, the shifting did freeze up. Engagement was fine, but she had to pedal home in lowest gear.

    Lesson to be learned, leave the hub in 4 or 5 if leaving the bike outside at extreme temps, just in case...

  9. #9

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Well....

    That is not very surprising...KISS *wink wink*

    Go back to more beers Tony...*jokes*
    _______

    Joking aside, is the hub service-able? I'm sure you would void the warranty if you changed up the oil...but what choice do you have?

    You might also check the cable and see if there is freezing at a point there.

    Keep us informed.

    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo
    Update to that.... Yesterday the wife's Alfine (stored inside) was fine both ways on the -35 commute... BUT... When she left it outside for a couple of hours at yoga class, the shifting did freeze up. Engagement was fine, but she had to pedal home in lowest gear.

    Lesson to be learned, leave the hub in 4 or 5 if leaving the bike outside at extreme temps, just in case...

  10. #10
    @adelorenzo
    Reputation: anthony.delorenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,670
    The hub is serviceable but nowhere near as easy as the Rohloff... Officially it should be the shop that does it. I'm not sure I want to be tearing one of these apart.

    Based on another ride yesterday, it seems like below -30 C is about the point where you start developing issues. I had a bit of slow engagement, but otherwise mine worked and shifted fine. The wife's hub stopped shifting again, although I am thinking this may be a cable issue, like you said.

    She commutes on hers and stores it inside. Neither of us plan on doing much recreational riding at those temps. If I were in the Iditarod I would have to figure out a solution, but for this season at least I think we'll just deal with it. Maybe I'll try servicing the hubs over the summer.

  11. #11

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Ig Dms

    Tony,

    What I think you are seeing is the oil / lube in the hub doing what I call 'cold aging'. When I tested well known, as well as some obscure, cold weather greases in our cryogenic freezer at the U of A....many would do fine at -70dF the first 12 hours - with some signs of hardening but still mobile. After 24, 36 and 48 hours they would show their true cold-weather qualities...many going to 'rock'...but only after time.

    As an expedition style rider...I'm looking for lubes that DON'T 'cold age'...for obvious reasons...we are out on the trail continuously. I also don't bring my bikes in warm storage during extreme cold weather...which, as you know, is most of the winter. If they must be brought into the shop for maint., they stay in until completely defrosted and temps equalize across the whole bike. Only then will I deep freeze them again. I think this can also cause some real problems with internal geared hubs...condensation in the gear case as most are not completely oilfilled. Even a little frozen water from condensation buildup inside ur hub is death. If you are bringing ur internal in and out in the cold you might consider venting that hub somehow...Rohloffs are easy - just open up the fill screw/plug and let it equalize like the rest of the bike.

    _________________

    NON IG DMS

    While the internal geared hubs are nice...they are the opposite of what I'm looking for in an expedition bike...simplicity. Fixed SS is simplest...yes we do ride fixed ss fatbikes. However, I also recognize the need for multiple gears and gears that are able to change without the time and complexity of varying wheel positions on a horizontal dropout...thus far, 3 gears (two riding and one bailout) on a tensioned and wrapped chain (as pictured) are working v.well. You must know the conditions and how they relate to your bike setup as well as your own physical capacities...it also helps to carry an extra cog or two which are relatively easy to change-out if any of the above change.



    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo
    The hub is serviceable but nowhere near as easy as the Rohloff... Officially it should be the shop that does it. I'm not sure I want to be tearing one of these apart.

    Based on another ride yesterday, it seems like below -30 C is about the point where you start developing issues. I had a bit of slow engagement, but otherwise mine worked and shifted fine. The wife's hub stopped shifting again, although I am thinking this may be a cable issue, like you said.

    She commutes on hers and stores it inside. Neither of us plan on doing much recreational riding at those temps. If I were in the Iditarod I would have to figure out a solution, but for this season at least I think we'll just deal with it. Maybe I'll try servicing the hubs over the summer.

  12. #12
    @adelorenzo
    Reputation: anthony.delorenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,670
    Good information there, thanks for that. My Pugs doesn't get a lot of warm/cold cycles but the wife's is getting 2-3 per day so that might explain why hers is having more problems. Not sure if it can be vented at all, I'll have to look into it.

    She rides it every day so not much time for an overhaul. I'll definitely have to take a look at it over the summer, see what can be done to improve the winter performance.

    My commuter is a fixed gear MTB that I leave outside all the time. As close to a worry-free drivetrain as you can get, although in this cold my hub bearings (Phil Wood) feel like they are full of glue. It will be interesting to see what those bearings look like after a winter of this abuse.

  13. #13
    Ride Responsibly
    Reputation: LWright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,946
    I ran a 2x1 with a Paul for a while. now I have a 1x9 and a Paul in a drawer.

  14. #14

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237

    Soup...

    Tony,

    I think the hub has potential...let us know how the servicing goes.

    Using the Phil hubs, BBs and bearings across the bike. Excellent USA product...IMAO, the Phil grease and oil is definately some of the best but it doesn't do all that well at low temps. Phil production folks grease all of our parts, inhouse, with Morningstar Soup that I supplied to them...np!

    Phil hubs are easy to service...a lot of Alaskans (at least those serious about freespinning / freemoving parts in below zero temps) use Paul Morningstar's Grease. When you are ready to re-lube that hub...he'll make something up for you.

    SOUP





    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo
    Good information there, thanks for that. My Pugs doesn't get a lot of warm/cold cycles but the wife's is getting 2-3 per day so that might explain why hers is having more problems. Not sure if it can be vented at all, I'll have to look into it.

    She rides it every day so not much time for an overhaul. I'll definitely have to take a look at it over the summer, see what can be done to improve the winter performance.

    My commuter is a fixed gear MTB that I leave outside all the time. As close to a worry-free drivetrain as you can get, although in this cold my hub bearings (Phil Wood) feel like they are full of glue. It will be interesting to see what those bearings look like after a winter of this abuse.
    ,

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.