APU singletrack trails & reflective cords.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Caveman
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    APU singletrack trails & reflective cords.

    I'm not sure if the person(s) responsible for this are on the forum, but just in case they are I wanted to express my view on it.

    For those that may not be aware, the single tracks trails in the APU area have been around for a long time. With the rise of fat bikes many new connections have been added during winter months. It's awesome and a gem to have right in town.

    What I don't understand is why somebody finds it necessary to hang reflective cord up in trees all over the place. It's wrong on several fronts.

    First - it's simply not needed and is distracting. If you can't find your way in these trails please buy some glasses and a light that puts out more than 5 lumen. Placing cords 10' off the ground every 15' is just stupid.

    Secondly - What may be a cool addition for the night riding experience to you, may not be for someone else. I find all these cords quite distracting and takes focus off the trail.

    Third - It's litter plain and simple. The tiny tree limbs you are tying them too are eventually going to get blow down and end up on the ground. The cords stapled to the tree's is just wrong. Enjoy our urban woods as you found them.

    We don't have too long before major sections of this land we love is going to get buldozed for road projects and APU expansions. Let's just enjoy it while it lasts and not hang crap all over the place, what you think is cool, others do not. If you keep putting them up, I'll keep tearing them down, I think we'd rather spend our time riding.
    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Every single time I try to go through there I get lost.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Every single time I try to go through there I get lost.
    That just means you don't ride there enough.

    It's not that big of an area and it's pretty easy to find the route out. How does litter in trees help you not get lost? It just seems disrespectful of other users, bikers and non alike to unilaterally decide to mark social trails in this way. At least with paper plate markers they will disintegrate eventually. I've seen people mark social trails in the area with surveyors tape before as well. Uncool. Though I wonder if this trail marking is done by the homeless folk who camp off of many of the bike trails? Just a thought.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockphi View Post
    That just means you don't ride there enough.

    It's not that big of an area and it's pretty easy to find the route out. How does litter in trees help you not get lost? It just seems disrespectful of other users, bikers and non alike to unilaterally decide to mark social trails in this way. At least with paper plate markers they will disintegrate eventually. I've seen people mark social trails in the area with surveyors tape before as well. Uncool. Though I wonder if this trail marking is done by the homeless folk who camp off of many of the bike trails? Just a thought.
    This is correct, I don't ride there enough, hence, I get lost every time. I didn't say that litter in the trees helps me.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    This is correct, I don't ride there enough, hence, I get lost every time. I didn't say that litter in the trees helps me.
    No, you didn't say it, but as the reply you made, that you get lost, in response to the OP makes the implication that you value the reflective bits in the trees for that specific reason, which was the OPs first argument of many. Now, had you stated: I get lost every time I ride there, but find the reflective strips annoying as well. Or "I get lost every time I ride there and these help me keep to the right track." Takes out the implied disagreement with the OPs argument.

    Then again, what do I know? I don't even get to ride there anymore as I'm in Palmer. Maybe the cords would be trippy as a Pink Floyd concert and cool to boot.

  6. #6
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Riding through there drunk the one time didn't help either, but the times I was sober didn't turn out much better.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Riding through there drunk the one time didn't help either, but the times I was sober didn't turn out much better.
    Cant say I've ridden there drunk, but.... Thatd definaitely make thinks interesting...

    You got a time Monday? I'll meet ya over there and we we'll tryua teach a those trails.

  8. #8
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    Sounds interesting
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
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    The reflective bits are from a few dudes that work at Native going out on their lunch when they were establishing some of the ephemeral fat bike trails. The trail alignment was marked out the year before last during the fall before the snow. I agree, there is a lot of existing APU trails that have been marked out as well. Most of the reflective bits, however, are along the sections of trail next to the dog park which have only ever been ephemeral fatbike trails. Although I appreciate the newish single track, it is becoming popular with walkers now, some of who smoke and litter buts everywhere. That bothers me a hell of a lot more than a few reflective bits.

  10. #10
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    Similar issue with the Blue Dot trail. Someone felt the need to "dot" a ton of additional trees going through there. Last I checked, it is pretty hard to get lost on that trail, summer or winter. I can understand some minimal marking when needed, but for the most part, when I go out to ride trails in the woods, I like to see the woods and not a bunch of graffiti on all the trees. If you are thinking of adding course markings to a trail, please step back and think about whether it is really necessary. More is not always better.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Similar issue with the Blue Dot trail. Someone felt the need to "dot" a ton of additional trees going through there. Last I checked, it is pretty hard to get lost on that trail, summer or winter. I can understand some minimal marking when needed, but for the most part, when I go out to ride trails in the woods, I like to see the woods and not a bunch of graffiti on all the trees. If you are thinking of adding course markings to a trail, please step back and think about whether it is really necessary. More is not always better.
    I was thinking that the last time I was on the trail...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  12. #12
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    flex, the guys that work at the native hosp who pack trails are not the ones adding the string. I know this for a fact. What I don't know is who is doing it. Some are so high it requires a step stool or ladder it seems. I have seen them removed and a few weeks later added right back. I agree, very distracting. I also don't get lost, but also had to learn the trail system. It is getting very popular.

  13. #13
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    I need a few new zipper pulls, now I know where to go.
    -thnx
    ptarmigan hardcore

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordyB View Post
    flex, the guys that work at the native hosp who pack trails are not the ones adding the string. I know this for a fact. What I don't know is who is doing it. Some are so high it requires a step stool or ladder it seems. I have seen them removed and a few weeks later added right back. I agree, very distracting. I also don't get lost, but also had to learn the trail system. It is getting very popular.
    Correct Jordy, myself and my co-worker have not placed any reflective or current markings on the trail. Years ago I did mark certain sections temporarily to establish new connections and encourage people biking and on foot to stay on the new trail and off of the ski trails. Those markings have been taken down for a long time now that the trail has established and in general most people know which way to go and travel across ski trails vs along them.

    Personally I can care less if there are some reflective cords on this and many other trails. I don't find it distracting. I haven't seen so many that I'd consider it taking away from the "natural" enjoyment of the trail. Maybe I just ride there so often that i don't even notice them? Take them down, put them up, I don't care, I'm just gonna ride the trails and have fun either way.

  15. #15
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    Comparing a few blue dots on trees on blue dot trail to graffiti is IMO a bit of a stretch. First of all, I think they were there before most people even knew about or used that trail. If a few blue dots of paint is that offensive to the trail than shouldn't we also never clear any down trees after a storm? After all, in nature no one cuts a dead tree to clear a path. Should we paint and litter every tree out there? No, but is blue dot really worth mentioning and comparing to graffiti?

  16. #16
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    It's a bit more than a few faint blue dots now.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskairhog View Post
    Comparing a few blue dots on trees on blue dot trail to graffiti is IMO a bit of a stretch. First of all, I think they were there before most people even knew about or used that trail. If a few blue dots of paint is that offensive to the trail than shouldn't we also never clear any down trees after a storm? After all, in nature no one cuts a dead tree to clear a path. Should we paint and litter every tree out there? No, but is blue dot really worth mentioning and comparing to graffiti?
    It WAS just a few blue dots. Now it is all over the place. When it was just a dot here or there, it was no big deal. But sometime more recently, someone went in and added a lot more that was totally unnecessary.

  18. #18
    is buachail foighneach me
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    The reflective cords are definitely way overdone right now. There are dead straight sections of obvious trail, with no turns or intersections, that have half a dozen of them along their length. They wouldn't bother me if they were only marking which way to go(for someone's preferred route) at intersections. I agree that they are to the point of being litter.

  19. #19
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    https://i.imgur.com/9CTPU2u.jpg

    LOOK AT IT. How could anyone be so brash as to think this isn't an eyesore. It ruins my entire day whenever I ride past one. I try to shield my eyes from them but they are so bright and disorienting I end up riding off the trail and crashing half the time!

    Everyone ought to memorize all the trails so we don't have to put up with these triggering and unsightly trail markers. When I go to university lake after a fresh snowfall I want to be completely lost in the untouched majesty of midtown. I want to have to find the trail by getting down on my hands and knees and feeling where the snow is properly packed. I'm not there to ride my bike on trails, I go there to be transported into a natural wonderland where I can completely forget that I live in a sprawling city.

    These repulsive and tacky trinkets of our global petroleum addiction literally serve no purpose other than to make my life a living hell. How am I supposed to enjoy my afternoon wheat-grass enema when I am so puckered I can't even insert the applicator? This happens often after seeing such a gross and flagrant encroachment of disgusting plastic in the pristine wilderness of University lake.

    Something else makes these flags even worse for me. I have PTSD from an incident that occurred back in the 90s when I was accosted by a group of runners wearing highly reflective clothing. One of them had the insensitivity to say "please don't ride on the sidewalk". I was flabbergasted and unsure of what to say. I was only fifteen years old and I was not allowed to talk to strangers at the time. I tried to explain to them that since I was only fifteen it may be illegal for me to ride on roads as I hadn't passed the necessary test to ensure I had an adequate understanding of the rules of the road. To that they Laughed at me! I still haven't gotten over that and I cried myself to sleep that night. From that day since, whenever I see a bit of conspicuous highly reflective poly tape I am brought right back to that sidewalk where those joggers laughed at me. It is the most terrible and excruciating flashback you could possibly imagine.

    So please before you decide to put up reflective tape be sure to consider the feelings of us who are triggered by them.

  20. #20
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    Polarflux! Lost your phone number. Check your IM's please.

  21. #21
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    I ride the University Lake/APU singletrack trails all the time! And…… I have never noticed anything hanging in the trees!! WOW! Maybe it's because I am rocking those fantastic trails and thinking about how much I appreciate those people who put them in!!!

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