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  1. #1
    Stubby-legged
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    Upset 24 in Endos

    i'm looking for a pair of worn out,blown out Endos to do an experiment. I want to chop and shrink some to fit 24in LM rims. Don't want to start out with new ones .
    If they work, I'll have someone build a Fatbike based on the tire/wheels. Than, I'll make a Fs Fatbike...than a Fatbike tandem.....than, a Connundrum Uni....ohhh boy..the places you'll go.

  2. #2
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    No Endomorph but...

    I have a shaved down Gazzaloddi you can have for your experiment

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way
    i'm looking for a pair of worn out,blown out Endos to do an experiment. I want to chop and shrink some to fit 24in LM rims. Don't want to start out with new ones .
    If they work, I'll have someone build a Fatbike based on the tire/wheels. Than, I'll make a Fs Fatbike...than a Fatbike tandem.....than, a Connundrum Uni....ohhh boy..the places you'll go.
    How about a recumbant?

  4. #4
    Stubby-legged
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    ... and if we just ... Now you're talking

    The possibilities are endless.

    How about a Big Dumb tandem, built around the mythical 24 in Endos!

  5. #5
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    they aren't endo's, but what about the rims/tires used in this years surly 1x1=11?

  6. #6
    Stubby-legged
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    the rims-yes

    Tires -no. 3inch tires are available from a few tire companies. They work good, flaot fair. The sidewalls are too stiff and don't have the smooth ride of the Endos. the tread is also fairly aggresssive for snow conditions.
    I have used a 2.7 tomac the last few winters. Nice tire. Handles low pressure well (about 8-10 lbs.) If I had not built the Pugs with full Endos, I would have thought it was The way to go.

    24 in endos would solve many of the issues that short people (like me) have with snowbike sizing. I ride a 16 inch Pugs now. A 14 would be ideal. And as stated before....offroad Tandem....Municycle...recumbent(?)....

  7. #7
    That Unicycle Guy
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    How about the 24X4.25 Big Boa?


    How are you planning on modifying the tire? I had a vaguely similar tire building/moding project a year ago but noting really came of it other than my first experimental tire to see if it was possible. Here is a link

    Whatever you do good luck in your experimentation.


    ERIC

  8. #8
    Stubby-legged
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    Want to make

    some 24 in endos. I have some 24 in rims (not LM) from a DH bike from a few years ago. Since Surly won't do it...I figured if some had some played out endos , I would experiment.

  9. #9
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Again I am curious what your plans are for how to make the endo into a 24"

    Or are you just going to get a tire set it infront of you until you get inspired?


    The major problem with taking a tire of one size then "shrinking" it to another size is what to do about the bead.

    You might be better off taking two cheap 24" tires cutting them near the edge of the tread then sewing the two large portions together. It is something I wanted to try but never got around to since I really had no reason to want a super-wide tire.

  10. #10
    Stubby-legged
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    I have been playing around

    with some old 26 in tires. My quandry has been the reconnection of the bead. Tried overlaying the joint with heavy nyon (like in your thread), light gage braided wire. hand sewing with dental floss,etc. Coating w/liquid rubber. Nothing came out to my satisfaction Always a "bump", always some separation. I may try some of the Boas. The float of the Endo has changed snowriding for me. My 2.7 Dh tires are ok, but the sidwall of the Endo is so supple...

  11. #11
    is buachail foighneach me
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    you could try shaving down the sidewall of your downhill tire to increase it's suppleness.... If you were to sew the tread onto the sidewalls off a 24" tire, you would probably loose some of the suppleness. look into how arrow racing did it when they first started with the 24" wheeled downhill thing. I remember seeing photos of their first tires, which were just chopped down 26" tires. My mind wants to remember it as them just taking a specific amount out of a 26" tire and just resewing it. not sure how that would work with the bead though....

  12. #12
    That Unicycle Guy
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    I realize that I was not that clear in my thread but the only part of the tire that I used was the tread peeled off the casing.

    I sort of wish that I would have kept the tire intact and rode it for longer to see how it stood up over time but it was not the best build quality since I built it basically as a proof of concept without being to careful about having everything even and strait. The unevenness would have gotten to me fairly quickly. If built carefully (and not outside in the wind) it could have been much more even.

    But then I only point out my thread to give you ideas, there is much better discussion about the idea in the unicyclist forums (linked in my thread). And once again I am kicking myself for not buying a disposable camera to take a few pictures of the build and finished product.


    Interesting about the Arrow tire, I did not know that they started out as frankentires.


    My suggestion for making a fat 24" tire would be to start with a 24" tire with desirable sidewalls, peel the tread off then cut the tire down the center and add a strip of cloth in the middle. Glue a new tread on the widened tire covering the cloth and seams. Make sure that the cloth that is sewn in is cut at a 45˚ bias so that it will stretch into a round shape instead of ending up flat like a car tire.

    Or maybe cutting the tire down the middle and just adding a loop of tire, perhaps from a 26" tire, that might be quickest and easiest.

    I don't think you want any radial seams.

    Just snowballing some ideas.

  13. #13
    Stubby-legged
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    Some great ideas

    This has rekindled my project. I have been trying to cut 'against the grain' with some 26ers. Getting th thickness of the splice has always been tough. I never thought to split a 24 and add to the middle of the tread. Thtas next.

  14. #14
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    they aren't endo's, but what about the rims/tires used in this years surly 1x1=11?

    Tires -no. 3inch tires are available from a few tire companies. They work good, flaot fair. The sidewalls are too stiff and don't have the smooth ride of the Endos. the tread is also fairly aggresssive for snow conditions.

    From your response I get the impression you have not seen these tire. Yes they are 3" but I think thats were it ends. They are light, flexible and have no tread at all.

    Edit: Hoggy-G 24 x 3.45 - Now I am wondering what they might be like on a 3 or 4" rim.

  15. #15
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Hey 1speed, you still thinking about that 24" fat bike?

    I was bored and thought about this project so I got a couple cheep tires cut them apart and sewed them back together. Two Kenda Kenetics 26x2.1s became one 26x3.2 (it is a bit bigger than my 26x3.0s)

    Judging by how it turned out I would say two 24x2.5s could be turned into a 24x3.8

    Two tires sewn together


    Installed on a 46mm rim and inflated to riding pressure (somewhere between 15 and 20psi)


    It felt pretty good for a roll around the yard. I will go for a ride on Wednesday weather permitting and see how it handles snowmobile trails. I might even do a back to back comparison with a 26x3 Gazz or Duro.
    Last edited by ericpulvermacher; 02-06-2010 at 11:55 PM.

  16. #16
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Hey Eric, what sewing machine did you use? I am wondering what sort of machine would pull the thread through the rubber effectively, and what sort of setup would even walk past the knobs?

  17. #17
    Stubby-legged
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    wow

    That looks great. I shelved the project for the winter. The snowbiking has been perfect this year.
    When mud season comes back around, I'm gonna' do some 24's just like this. let us know a little more how they turn out.

  18. #18
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Hey Eric, what sewing machine did you use? I am wondering what sort of machine would pull the thread through the rubber effectively, and what sort of setup would even walk past the knobs?



    It took about 4 hours to do and if I were to do it again I would use a different colored thread since I had poor light.

    I am now wondering what I should put on the threads to protect them from abrasion. Do you think silicone calking would work?

  19. #19
    is buachail foighneach me
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    silicone or this stuff: http://www.gmptools.com/nf/71670.htm

  20. #20
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    Do the Goo...Shoe Goo...household or automotive formulas are a bit more flowable and will allow it to penetrate better
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  21. #21
    Caveman
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    Find some marine or upholstery shop there in Kodiak that has walking foot machines, Ideally a cylinder arm.
    Would probably take about 2 minutes.

  22. #22
    That Unicycle Guy
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    I didn't do my test loop like I was planning to yesterday so I did a quick out-and-back ride on a snowmobile trail with all 3 of my 3" tires this morning.

    I modified the tire a bit before going out. I put a bead of silicone calking on the threads to protect them from abrasion and put a whole bunch of little strips of duct tape in the tire to protect the tube. To compensate for the added weight I cut off all the outside lugs which are really on the sidewall and never touched the snow anyway. Without the lugs on the sidewall it looked almost exactly the same width as a Gazzalodi 3.0. I weighted the tire after and it came out as 1260g.

    The trail had a semi-firm base with loose granular snow on top. I only went out just over 1km. Mostly flat with more slope at the end.

    I ride my frankentire, then my Gazz 3.0, then my Duro 3.0.

    The frankentire was the lightest and felt the most nimble. It was much more bouncy than the other two tires and seemed to need the least amount of energy to keep going when on a firm surface but also had the least amount of grip on the slopes.

    Not surprisingly the Gazz had the best float of all the tires due to its square profile. It also had the best grip in the looser snow and in the steeper sections.

    My Duro is studded and I use a split innertube for a liner. The tread is modified a bit to help with loose conditions and get it to roll a bit better but it is still the heaviest tire I have and due to its round profile and stiff sidewalls it really is a poor choice for a snow tire. It really felt dead compared to the other two tires and was somewhere in the middle in the grip department. I only really use this tire when I expect to encounter lots of glair ice so it was a bit out of its element.



    all and all I was quite impressed with how the tire handled the ride and think that it could be a real alternate for people who can not find/afford true fat tires and want some good volume. The silicone is starting to peel just a tad after only 2km so I think I am going to try to peel it off and use shoe-goo instead.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    thought I'd go to the source and repost here...not to pee on anyone's parade, but this, like those welded rims some hack was selling on ebay, is a technique that people have been using for nearly 20 years, indubitably more. Simon Rokauer, John Evingson and Mark Baker welded rims together in the late 80's at All Weathe Sports in Fairbanks for the prototype Snowcat, Soon Thereafter Dave Kelly, also of All Weather Sports, sewed two 2.6 Gary Fisher Bearpaws together to make the first 5.0 tire. He custom hacked a MTB crown and I think road bike stanchions for a fork to fit the tire, I hate to seem like a hater and I'm sure y'all are proud of your creations, you should be. That is one of the coolest things about this sport right now, innovation. Pure unadulterated innovation. Sorry for the negative vibes, man.
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  24. #24
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Just because it was done 20 years ago does not make it a bad idea. You could even say that this technique has history on its side...

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