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  1. #8801
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    I sent Nextie as BTLos an email to advice me so letís see who helps me better.


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  2. #8802
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    I got a set of BTLOS m-i25a rims built with DT 350 hubs. Quality seems great so far and I have no complaints. This is my first set of carbon wheels so not much to compare with. I did about an hour demo on some SC reserves on a demo bike and no big differences stood out.

    A few points:
    - Communication with them was great.
    - These wheels are actually 26.5mm internal, NOT 25mm as advertised. They did point this out to me when ordering.
    - The website lets you configure things that aren't available. ie. I picked centerlock J bend DT hubs but they only had centerlock in straight pull. Not a huge deal and they'll point out anything that isn't available.
    - Wheels took a bit longer than anticipated but no big deal.

    All in all, I'm very satisfied and would use them again.

  3. #8803
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    Quote Originally Posted by yagr68 View Post
    - These wheels are actually 26.5mm internal, NOT 25mm as advertised. They did point this out to me when ordering.
    This is true but only for the XC version of these rims and is described on the web page for the rim. All versions of this rim have a 32mm outer width, but while the AM version has an IW of 25mm and 3.5mm thick bead walls, the XC version has a 26.5mm IW and correspondingly thinner walls.

  4. #8804
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayold View Post
    This is true but only for the XC version of these rims and is described on the web page for the rim. All versions of this rim have a 32mm outer width, but while the AM version has an IW of 25mm and 3.5mm thick bead walls, the XC version has a 26.5mm IW and correspondingly thinner walls.
    Yes, they can also build you the i25 AM spec wheel with their XC weight of 390g. I was looking to do this, but I want a lighter i25 wheel.

  5. #8805
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    Anyone try out the new LB Recon Pro series rims? I previously had the older style AM928 and just ordered a couple of the newer AM930ís to build another wheelset.

  6. #8806
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    yooooo!, btlos is having a 15% off sale from 11-9 till 11-11, they are also adding the 54t dtswiss upgrade for the first 50 customers. I own a pair and I love them, this is a great time to buy some.
    Last edited by senorbanana; 11-09-2018 at 11:27 PM.

  7. #8807
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    $775 shipped for 27.5 34mm width, dt upgrade. Iím so tempted....

  8. #8808
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    Why is BTLos so heavy?:/ 1600 for a 30mm id rim with sapim cx ray AMD DT 240...


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  9. #8809
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasperGr View Post
    Why is BTLos so heavy?:/ 1600 for a 30mm id rim with sapim cx ray AMD DT 240...


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    I agree. That's what held me back from buying from them. EIE/Carbonfan and Light Bicycle seem to be 30-50g per rim lighter for comparable profiles and materials.

  10. #8810
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    Hi, just about buying a couple of wheelsets from SpeedSafe ... what opinion do you have about this builder? Any known issue?

    I made a final search before click the buy button and I found this thread in this same forum LINK ... so I thought that this thread wouldn't be a bad place to ask.

    Any alternative seller to SpeedSafe?

    Thanks!

  11. #8811
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmanuelsg View Post
    Any alternative seller to SpeedSafe?Thanks!
    I am far from an expert on this topic, but I did a lot of reading in this thread before I ordered a set of wheels from BTLOS. There seem to be a fair number of reputable sellers: Light Bike and Nextie seem to be the most established, but I have also seen decent reports on BTLOS, EIE, Carbonfan and Oxive.

    There are a few things that stick out in that link you shared - the weight of the wheelset was incredibly light. I don't know the specifics of the rider or how the rims were used, but I personally value durability over light weight. The other thing that seemed weird is that they are using 64% T800. Again, not an expert, but I have read that while T800 is lighter than T700, it is also more brittle. I know BTLOS only advertises 25% T800 in their premium rims. Read into this what you will.

    This is my first experience ordering directly from China. I chose BTLOS because they were cheaper than Light Bike and Nextie, but appear to be a company that manufacturers the rims that they sell. Their communication has been excellent through the sales/build process, although in all honesty I wouldn't expect anything different. I can't say anything yet about their support if anything goes wrong - I am hoping I will never find out

    Good luck!

  12. #8812
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    I am far from an expert on this topic, but I did a lot of reading in this thread before I ordered a set of wheels from BTLOS. There seem to be a fair number of reputable sellers: Light Bike and Nextie seem to be the most established, but I have also seen decent reports on BTLOS, EIE, Carbonfan and Oxive.
    It's all the same factory and manufacturing procedures. Different quality control in each case.

    The other thing that seemed weird is that they are using 64% T800. Again, not an expert, but I have read that while T800 is lighter than T700, it is also more brittle. I know BTLOS only advertises 25% T800 in their premium rims. Read into this what you will.
    It really matters what resin you use, not so much the fiber. T800 is marginally more brittle than T700, but when using a graphene epoxy it's actually stronger. Additionally, good rim layups consist of a single carbon sheet in each layer angled about 20-40 degrees so that the fibers support lateral spoke tension and aren't as affected by vertical impacts. This makes fiber brittleness even less important.

    This is my first experience ordering directly from China. I chose BTLOS because they were cheaper than Light Bike and Nextie, but appear to be a company that manufacturers the rims that they sell.
    They don't manufacture, they are agents like everyone else that do a great job of pretending they are the factory. They have a corner of the factory at the end of the production line and an office nearby. They do their own quality control and wheelbuilding.

  13. #8813
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    It's all the same factory and manufacturing procedures. Different quality control in each case.
    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    They don't manufacture, they are agents like everyone else that do a great job of pretending they are the factory. They have a corner of the factory at the end of the production line and an office nearby. They do their own quality control and wheelbuilding.
    I certainly appreciate that you seem to know much more about this than I do, but do you have any evidence? I was looking for this sort of information but could not find it.

    Again, not proof but this is the information on BTLOS's website:

    Xiamen Btlos Bicycle Co., Ltd. is a professional manufacturer focused on the design, development, and production of carbon fiber bicycle road rims, carbon mountain bike rims, carbon fat bike rims and carbon wheelsets.
    After many years as an OEM manufacturer/supplier, in 2017, BTLOS launched our consumer website making our years of quality and manufacturing expertise available direct to the consumer at the retail level for the very first time.

    Our well-equipped facilities and excellent quality control throughout all stages of production enable us to guarantee total customer satisfaction.

    And this:
    ABOUT OUR FACTORY

    CAN I VISIT YOUR FACTORY?

    Yes. Welcome to visit our factory.

    WHY CHOOSE US?

    We have 6 years of experience in designing and producing high-end carbon bicycle rims.

    1. We are the direct manufacturer.
    2. All the carbon fiber raw materials come from Japan. We only use pure carbon fiber material.
    3. We have professional technical personnel and designer team.
    4. We have strict test standard and quality control system.
    5. We have good after-sales service team.
    6. Passed EN and UCI quality test.
    7. Quality warranty period: 18-mount.

  14. #8814
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    I certainly appreciate that you seem to know much more about this than I do, but do you have any evidence? I was looking for this sort of information but could not find it.

    Again, not evidence but this is the information on BTLOS's website:

    Xiamen Btlos Bicycle Co., Ltd. is a professional manufacturer focused on the design, development, and production of carbon fiber bicycle road rims, carbon mountain bike rims, carbon fat bike rims and carbon wheelsets.
    After many years as an OEM manufacturer/supplier, in 2017, BTLOS launched our consumer website making our years of quality and manufacturing expertise available direct to the consumer at the retail level for the very first time.

    Our well-equipped facilities and excellent quality control throughout all stages of production enable us to guarantee total customer satisfaction.
    My source is direct communication with several brands. I have been unable to find a way to contact the actual factory directly. They all skirt the question about whether they actually control the production process.

    You'll also notice the molds are similar (or identical), indicating the same designer was involved or even the same molds were used. Not only that, pictures of the factory in Alibaba ads have the same floor color, rack or shelving style, etc. I really can't find a way to reach this factory directly.

    This is very much unlike Qtour and Yishun which will quickly tell you they are the only producer in their factory, and sell to agents.

  15. #8815
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    My source is direct communication with several brands. I have been unable to find a way to contact the actual factory directly. They all skirt the question about whether they actually control the production process.

    You'll also notice the molds are similar (or identical), indicating the same designer was involved or even the same molds were used. Not only that, pictures of the factory in Alibaba ads have the same floor color, rack or shelving style, etc. I really can't find a way to reach this factory directly.

    This is very much unlike Qtour and Yishun which will quickly tell you they are the only producer in their factory, and sell to agents.
    Good info and would absolutely make sense to me. I can't imagine that many carbon fiber factories existing.

    Curious why the price can vary so much, but then again it isn't surprising. Take pinarello vs giant.... One is a mass producer and the other is a very targeted high end market. Branding plays a big role in all of business.

    That said, curious to see the rims I ordered from Speedsafe are of similar quality to my Nexties. Specs are very close. The preorder price a couple weeks ago was nearly 50% less though. I have no clue when they'll ship. No word yet.

  16. #8816
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildh View Post
    Curious why the price can vary so much, but then again it isn't surprising.
    The actual cost of manufacturing a rim is probably between $50 and $75, though I don't have a firm figure on that because factories like to add in warranty funds and distribute mold costs. Then the agents have to pay tax, quality control (and pick up the expenses of rejects), shipping, packaging, labor, drilling, sanding, painting, reserve funds for warranty, handled customer service, pay building rent, pay factory rent, pay for their Aliexpress store ($1,500 start-up cost), pay for Aliexpress fees per transaction (8%) or Alibaba fees (per lead), buy insurance, and it all adds up. It's phenomenal what prices these people can do.

    It's crazy, wholesale prices are often higher than Aliexpress promotional prices. These newer and smaller agents are tearing themselves to pieces trying to gain a following, at the complete expense of any profits and their competitors. It's a chain reaction to bankruptcy. They are forgetting the power of good marketing and focusing only on the price tag.

    I spent some time comparing carbon rim agents that were around in 2011-2013 and that are still around. The failure rate for these companies was about 3 in 4, those that are still around are very popular. I'd bet on it that excellent customer service got them to this point, not the lowest prices.

    I would be really really curious to visit several of these places in person. Maybe next time I get a business conference in China or Hong Kong I'll sneak in a side trip.

  17. #8817
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    Looking to purchase a lightweight wheelset for my new build, any advice?

    Thinking something along the lines of:
    25mm internal width (will be running 2.35 front/2.25 front usually)
    Sapim CX-Ray spokes
    28-hole
    DT Swiss 240s or 350s (not set on these)
    54t ratchet upgrade (have 36t now and wouldn't want any less)


    Is everybody choosing straight-pull if that's an option? No preference to sym/asym as I have no experience, but input appreciated.

    Shipping to Canada seems crazy from some retailers ($200 USD) and I am not in a rush.

    I weigh 65kg and this will be on a 110/120mm XC race bike. Riding in Whistler though, so dropper + Fox 34 as the trails are more on the 'enduro' side of things, but no real drops/jumps outside of the park here.

    I have been riding Light Bicycle 29C07's (30mm internal) rims on my other bike for two years (including the bike park) and have absolutely no issues with them.

  18. #8818
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Looking to purchase a lightweight wheelset for my new build, any advice?

    Thinking something along the lines of:
    25mm internal width (will be running 2.35 front/2.25 front usually)
    Sapim CX-Ray spokes
    28-hole
    DT Swiss 240s or 350s (not set on these)
    54t ratchet upgrade (have 36t now and wouldn't want any less)


    Is everybody choosing straight-pull if that's an option? No preference to sym/asym as I have no experience, but input appreciated.

    Shipping to Canada seems crazy from some retailers ($200 USD) and I am not in a rush.

    I weigh 65kg and this will be on a 110/120mm XC race bike. Riding in Whistler though, so dropper + Fox 34 as the trails are more on the 'enduro' side of things, but no real drops/jumps outside of the park here.

    I have been riding Light Bicycle 29C07's (30mm internal) rims on my other bike for two years (including the bike park) and have absolutely no issues with them.
    https://www.carbonfan.com/t800-tubel...idth-27mm-30mm Carbonfan skyweight have been great for me over the last year. Great communication, price, and fast shipping. 27mm ext, dt240, pillar spokes atless than 1300 grams for a great price. Might as well go asym as that's theoretically stronger, I used straight pull but don't think it makes any difference other than hub may be slightly lighter.

  19. #8819
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    Thanks for the suggestion. Looks like $1,361 for the build I want, think I'd stick with Light Bicycle if I'm going to spend that much though.

  20. #8820
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    btlos is having a 15% sale on everything it seems, good time to buy. I have been riding mine for 5 months on enduro trails, all good.

  21. #8821
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    BTLOS works out to $992 (after $50 spin prize code) for the build I'd want, seem to weigh a bit more than other manufacturers, but not huge. I saw 15% for some rims, is there a code or something for wheelsets?

  22. #8822
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    No code, I just went to the website and I saw the -15% on the wheelsets

  23. #8823
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    https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/34mm...arbon-wheelset
    I run these rims in 27.5 premium DH laced to king hubs. I trust them completely!

  24. #8824
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    You're right, looks like that was built-in already. Can save a bit more with that spin and win thing on the home page.

    i24a with 350s (54t and CX-Ray) works out to $834 shipped at 1396g. Probably the front runner for now, sounds like they have a good reputation (BTLOS).

  25. #8825
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    Yep, they are a solid choice, I love them.

  26. #8826
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    I spun it for fun and got a 50, do u want it

  27. #8827
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    That's what I got (included in the $ total I posted) thanks for the offer!

  28. #8828
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    Awesome!

  29. #8829
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-1aa491c4-d0e1-4de4-8123-890b424b6d7d.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-f3642555-3786-44b0-ac84-09543fcf628f.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-afa49397-ff43-4ada-9e7b-58d7f2382259.jpgJust received carbonfan 25id assymetric wheelset.built with novatec centerlock hubs. Weight is 679 rear,540 front. Just freshened up my Ridley. Also added eagle 12 speed while I was at. Bike is now 23lbs 9 ounces with pedals. Excited to try it out Tuesday.

  30. #8830
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    You're right, looks like that was built-in already. Can save a bit more with that spin and win thing on the home page.

    i24a with 350s (54t and CX-Ray) works out to $834 shipped at 1396g. Probably the front runner for now, sounds like they have a good reputation (BTLOS).
    I love my BTLOS wheels - I think you will be happy. If you are looking for a lower price you might check out EIE. You have to request a quote, but they will turn it around quickly. Iíd personally stick with BTLOS though. Buy their premium wheels and get the 3.5 year warranty with crash replacement.

  31. #8831
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    Quote Originally Posted by global View Post
    Just received carbonfan 25id assymetric wheelset.built with novatec centerlock hubs. Weight is 679 rear,540 front. Just freshened up my Ridley. Also added eagle 12 speed while I was at. Bike is now 23lbs 9 ounces with pedals. Excited to try it out Tuesday.
    I donít know anything about those Novatec hubs. Are they decent?

  32. #8832
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    I live in Temecula and novatec has offices here. I have used there hubs on 8 wheelsets over 6 years and have had great luck. They are very popular in my area. I just bought LB wheels for my road bike with dt hubs but would have got novatec if they offered xdr for 12 speed road freehub. These hubs are lighter than 240 straight pull centerlock for a way lower cost.

  33. #8833
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    Quote Originally Posted by global View Post
    I live in Temecula and novatec has offices here. I have used there hubs on 8 wheelsets over 6 years and have had great luck. They are very popular in my area. I just bought LB wheels for my road bike with dt hubs but would have got novatec if they offered xdr for 12 speed road freehub. These hubs are lighter than 240 straight pull centerlock for a way lower cost.
    Glad they work for you. I have a set of 29er wheels with Novatec hubs that came stock on my Hightower. The general consensus on the forums seems to be that they are not very good hubs. Always hard to tell if that is just the noisy minority or not.... I just want to know when I am buying a new wheelset that the hubs are solid.

  34. #8834
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    Quote Originally Posted by global View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1229269Just received carbonfan 25id assymetric wheelset.built with novatec centerlock hubs. Weight is 679 rear,540 front. Just freshened up my Ridley. Also added eagle 12 speed while I was at. Bike is now 23lbs 9 ounces with pedals. Excited to try it out Tuesday.
    Very nice! Which series/model hub is that exactly? How much did that build come out to? Haven't considered Novatec, but open to them.

  35. #8835
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    D411sb-cl,D412sb-cl,rims are t800 25 deep 30 wide 25 ID assymetric. (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-56bc23d9-f007-4fd9-9cc0-c9b425575a68.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-f5a30a85-19d4-4834-99ec-3b148b9604d5.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-e541518b-1ad6-4832-bd8d-e515c76352aa.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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  36. #8836
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    Whenever I build wheels, I choose to buy high quality hubs. Only hubs I would buy are kings, i9, dt, hope, p321, onyx, and my budget choice would be halo. High engagement hubs are a must and if your lacing carbon rims why spend so little on the hubs. Just my opinion, no hate.

  37. #8837
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    Did not choose these as my budget choice. Chose them because I think I will like them. Rarely post because some people will go negative. I think Iím done here.

  38. #8838
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    I wasn't meaning to be negative towards you, I was talking to users like spec47 that were wondering what hubs they might want. And in my opinion, I think it is worth the investment in the hubs.

  39. #8839
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    The pawls in my D411SB-SL in the rear broke after 1300 miles of use and the hub wasn't spinning freely. I didn't look into why that was at the time, but regardless I would only get a D41SSB-SL for the front and maybe upgrade the bearings, but I don't think I'd do it again in the rear. They are really attractive for their weight and price, but as they say, pick two from weight, price, and quality...
    Last edited by sissypants; 12-17-2018 at 07:30 AM.

  40. #8840
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    The pawls in my D411SB-SL in the rear broke after 1300 miles of use and the hub wasn't spinning freely. I didn't look into why that was at the time, but regardless I would only get a D41SSB-SL for the front and maybe upgrade the bearings, but I don't think I'd do it again in the rear. They are really attractive for their weight and price, but as they say, pick three from weight, price, and quality...
    Pick two?
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  41. #8841
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    Haha, edited

    There are notable exceptions where you get all three, however...

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    I just want to know if it is possible to make a website any more cryptic than Novatec's site for their hubs. I'm not sure who the intended audience is for it, but short of clicking through each hub they offer, good luck figuring out what their product offerings are.

  43. #8843
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    I look for engagement, quality and support. I donít think novatec hubs have very good support. Quality is something I cannot report on because I never owned any.

  44. #8844
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    My source is direct communication with several brands. I have been unable to find a way to contact the actual factory directly. They all skirt the question about whether they actually control the production process.

    You'll also notice the molds are similar (or identical), indicating the same designer was involved or even the same molds were used. Not only that, pictures of the factory in Alibaba ads have the same floor color, rack or shelving style, etc. I really can't find a way to reach this factory directly.

    This is very much unlike Qtour and Yishun which will quickly tell you they are the only producer in their factory, and sell to agents.
    I'm a wheel builder who also has a few contacts in Asia - one at the Factory that makes BTLOS. BTLOS is a spin off within a factory that had open molds (and I believe now some new original to them molds) - that is, the company is owned by a factory that does more work for big brands and figured through expired agreement and open molds, could offer good value to end consumers. I have actually considered, and fully priced out opening my own molds in their factory.


    If you are going to be in the area, just email them. I don't think you'll find you get any pushback.
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  45. #8845
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    I just want to know if it is possible to make a website any more cryptic than Novatec's site for their hubs. I'm not sure who the intended audience is for it, but short of clicking through each hub they offer, good luck figuring out what their product offerings are.
    Check out Factor Hubs - offshoot of Novatec, and the highest end of their product offering. Street prices are extremely good, they have 120 points of enagagment, I have seen zero reports of failure, nor had any myself, and I have put guys close to 250 lbs on them they have fantastic bearings and are well sealed...they aren't the lightest, but not super heavy either - and hub weight really doesn't matter nearly as much as tires, rims, nipples, and spokes anyway being at the centre of the wheel.
    • 2015 Kona Explosif Ti
    • 2015 Kona Process 111
    • 2018 Canfield Riot

  46. #8846
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    Can anyone confirm what ratchets BTLOS is using for the DT Swiss rear hub? I emailed them and they are saying the 36T and 54T they use is genuine DT Swiss.

  47. #8847
    mjw
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFWY View Post
    Can anyone confirm what ratchets BTLOS is using for the DT Swiss rear hub? I emailed them and they are saying the 36T and 54T they use is genuine DT Swiss.
    They use genuine parts.
    • 2015 Kona Explosif Ti
    • 2015 Kona Process 111
    • 2018 Canfield Riot

  48. #8848
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjw View Post
    They use genuine parts.
    Yes - best I can tell they are authentic. The ratchets in my BTLOS DT Swiss 240 hubs look identical to those in two other DT Swiss hubs that I own.

  49. #8849
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    Just got a great quote for i29mm rims from EIE. I'm currently on Enve M70s (non-HV) i25 as stated earlier. But you guys planted Inception in my head on the i29/30 rims. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. These are 650b rims.

    How compliant are EIE wheels for those that know? While I do enjoy the preciseness of the rims, combined with the carbon Bronson, it's quite stiff all around. And I'm looking to improve small bump which is difficult with the kinematics but just seeing where I can improve.

    Wider rims with more is one way. But also just wondering if the rims are a tiny bit more compliant than the Enves which are quite stiff.

  50. #8850
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    Chinese carbon rims are not bone racking stiff. Enves are the stiffest. My CarbonFan 30mm rims with Sapim Laser spokes are not overly stiff at all. But they never go out of true. They were true when I laced them. The easiest wheel to build I can imagine.

  51. #8851
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    get some cush core and run lower pressures and dont risk breaking ur rims, I have em on my 34 btlos and its so compliment and dialed

  52. #8852
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    im on EIE i38 rims with dt350 hubs and cx-ray spokes. they are not overly stiff feeling to me. im almost 100% positive the enve wheels will be stiffer.

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