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  1. #1
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    Best Tubeless Brew?

    After running tubeless three years, I think I have tried all the different sealant types. My unscientific conclusion, if the main goal is flat protection, stan's is the best. Unfortunately, it dries up and thus builds up in the tire. To get at this problem, I have heard all kind of homemade combinations of the different tubeless product to get at a best brew of flat protection plus longevity. The latest sounded interesting superjuice with glitter. The theory is that the glitter provide better sealing protection. This sounded like little bit of a stretch to me, but at least if it came spewing out on you during a race, you would be looking good! Anybody want to throw out their experience in coming up with the "ultimate" homemade sealant brew for the rest of us to try?

  2. #2
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    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Tends to last for about a year vs 3 months for Stan's, and I live in the southwest desert (LC NM). Seals better, less "wet spotting".

    I will be adding glitter to the next batch I make - turns out there are different sizes (and colors!) of glitter to think about.

    The idea is a range of hole plugging things, with latex at the low end (tiny holes) and moving up thru the fibers and then the rubber chunks in the tubeless slime. Glitter should add a next (or several more) size ranges of hole the sealant can plug - as well as give you lime green/red glitter sealant boogers

    Antifreeze is in there as a low evaporation working fluid. I note that slime is water/fiber/chunks/propylene glycol antifreeze(low tox). I tried using PG antifreeze, but it has additives for auto use that coagulate the latex. That's why I use cheap PE antifreeze - no additives!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Tends to last for about a year vs 3 months for Stan's, and I live in the southwest desert (LC NM). Seals better, less "wet spotting".

    I will be adding glitter to the next batch I make - turns out there are different sizes (and colors!) of glitter to think about.

    The idea is a range of hole plugging things, with latex at the low end (tiny holes) and moving up thru the fibers and then the rubber chunks in the tubeless slime. Glitter should add a next (or several more) size ranges of hole the sealant can plug - as well as give you lime green/red glitter sealant boogers

    Antifreeze is in there as a low evaporation working fluid. I note that slime is water/fiber/chunks/propylene glycol antifreeze(low tox). I tried using PG antifreeze, but it has additives for auto use that coagulate the latex. That's why I use cheap PE antifreeze - no additives!
    Been using the same for a couple of months- Works great in a "Ghetto" tubeless setup with a 2.55WWLT- Don't know if the glitter adds extra protection- added some anyway. Only issue is valve (schraeder) sometimes clogs.

  4. #4
    mvi
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    Not trying to steal the thread, but does mold builder change his properties (not mixed) with time? Mine seems more solid, almost grannulating. Time for a new can?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Tends to last for about a year vs 3 months for Stan's, and I live in the southwest desert (LC NM). Seals better, less "wet spotting".

    I will be adding glitter to the next batch I make - turns out there are different sizes (and colors!) of glitter to think about.

    The idea is a range of hole plugging things, with latex at the low end (tiny holes) and moving up thru the fibers and then the rubber chunks in the tubeless slime. Glitter should add a next (or several more) size ranges of hole the sealant can plug - as well as give you lime green/red glitter sealant boogers

    Antifreeze is in there as a low evaporation working fluid. I note that slime is water/fiber/chunks/propylene glycol antifreeze(low tox). I tried using PG antifreeze, but it has additives for auto use that coagulate the latex. That's why I use cheap PE antifreeze - no additives!
    A year? Wow! Now find me a tire that last's a year!
    You wouldn't be in so much pain if you didn't ride like a dork!

  6. #6

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    Black pepper: I've stoped a few radiator leaks with it... I wonder how it would work in your homebrew??? I may have to give it a try.

    BTW, what is Latex Mold Builder, were do you get it, and how much of this mixture do you put in each tire?

    Mikey

  7. #7
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    Mold builder you can get from art supply shops. It's straight up latex, with a funky smelling dilutent.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyLikesIt
    BTW, what is Latex Mold Builder, were do you get it, and how much of this mixture do you put in each tire?
    Mikey
    Cloxxki got it: art supply stores, or the internets. Hobby Lobby is my usual source, but here's one: http://www.artmolds.com/product_deta...ubber&u_cat=28
    And more important, the Material Safety Data Sheet - which tells you it is latex and ammonia (and a bit of water, but they don't actually say that): http://www.artmolds.com/pdf/ACF5DCA.PDF

    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Not trying to steal the thread, but does mold builder change his properties (not mixed) with time? Mine seems more solid, almost grannulating. Time for a new can?
    I've brought spokeprep back to life by adding ammonia to it, and you might be able to do that to your LMB. But for $11/pt I would just spring for another jar. Once mixed into sealant, it hasn't degraded on me - stored in a glass jar inside the house.

    Amount to use? Just like Stan's - for a 2.4x29 tire I use 3 scoops (2 oz ea)
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  9. #9

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    Thanks for the info and the links...I'm gonna give it a try.
    Mikey

  10. #10
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    I'm running that mixture in a 2.55 WW and a Panaracer 2.35 Rampage and love it. Tires run better tubeless no doubt.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Mold builder you can get from art supply shops. It's straight up latex, with a funky smelling dilutent.
    That or just look around in your refrigerator. Why build mold when you already have an inexaustible supply? Not latex, but it will be funky smelling none the less.
    "Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" -- Mark Twain.

  12. #12
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    PE antifreeze? What is the PE??
    Do you mean cheap EG antifreeze?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic
    PE antifreeze? What is the PE??
    Do you mean cheap EG antifreeze?
    Yes, yes, I do. Ethylene Glycol, I.E. old school antifreeze. I blame my fingers.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  14. #14
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    1 Stans - 1 Slime Tubeless - 1 Bonty Super Juice. Seems good. Hoping to learn more about the glitter idea by the time I need to mount up the next tire! Maybe a little quicker acting than the little rubber plugs in the Slime.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    1 Stans - 1 Slime Tubeless - 1 Bonty Super Juice. Seems good. Hoping to learn more about the glitter idea by the time I need to mount up the next tire! Maybe a little quicker acting than the little rubber plugs in the Slime.
    How long have you been running this mixture?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyLikesIt
    How long have you been running this mixture?
    Only a couple of months. Previously, I used 1 part stans to 1 part Tubeless Slime. I added the Bonty Super Juice at the recommendation of MikeSee, who said it really helps keep the stuff from drying out.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Hey wadester, or anyone...

    Is latex the base material for Slime?? I live in a small town and the 'Mold Maker' (liquid latex) can't be found localy. I was just wondering if your formula would work using an extra part Slime (in place of the mold maker). I can get Slime just about anywhere and it is relatively inexpensive.

    What do you think of this variation to your recipe??

    2 parts Slime
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    a spoonful of glitter
    and a dash of black pepper just to flavor things up

    Mikey

  18. #18
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    Uh, no.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyLikesIt
    Hey wadester, or anyone...

    Is latex the base material for Slime?? I live in a small town and the 'Mold Maker' (liquid latex) can't be found localy. I was just wondering if your formula would work using an extra part Slime (in place of the mold maker). I can get Slime just about anywhere and it is relatively inexpensive.

    What do you think of this variation to your recipe??

    2 parts Slime
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    a spoonful of glitter
    and a dash of black pepper just to flavor things up

    Mikey
    Slime is just antifreeze/water/fiber - and chunks in tubeless. Adding more/different chunks may improve your basic Slime, but I think that the real key to tubeless is the latex. That's what seals the beads and sidewall porosity.

    Like I said earlier - you just gotta pony-up and get that jar of latex. I mix mine in a 5 pint pickle jar (barely fits - gotta stir that last water in carefully) and use till gone. I actually find that the mixed sealant is good to the last drop, but the latex will dry out in the jar
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  19. #19
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    I had slime from tha auto parts store and compared it to the regular and tubeless slime. The auto parts stuff is noticeably chunkier. I now run the same mix as most everyone else here.

    1 pt mold builder
    1 pt slime (auto parts store stuff)
    1 pt antifreeze
    1 pt windex

    It has been running strong in my tubeless rig (819 rims and Specialized Enduro UST 2.3 tires) for 6 months without replenishing. Stan's usually lasted a month here in the desert. The true testament will be if it can outlast the summer... The tires are about half worn and I never thought tires could be this trouble free!

    I've had lots of cactus thorns, 1 nail and 1 piece of glass. All have sealed quickly. The only downside is the stuff is slightly nasty looking when it picks up dirt after sealing a hole. Oh and you need to mix all the mold builder up in one shot. As such it helps to have friends who want to do their tires as well. A batch turns out about 3/4 gallon.

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    Thanks for the input

    It was interesting to see all the combinations. I think I am going to try the bonrtrager super juice as the base, slime (for cars to get the bigger chunks), glitter (purple sparkling), and dark, dark orange food coloring. I think this mixture should cover the gamut of hole sizes. In addition, if everything fails and I get the dreaded tubeless shower, I will be a chick magnet; orange stripes, purple glitter, and chunks of flourescent green!

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    OK, last night, I mixed up wadesters recipe and added about 2 ozs of glitter. Did the getto tubeless thing on a 26 in wheel with an old velocirapter front tire. The tire had severall punctures. When I aired it up to seat the bead, I could here and feel the air escapeing from the holes. After the bead was set, I added the mixture (about 3oz) and aired it up again...as I turned the wheel in my hand I could literaly hear the holes seal up...instantly! The bead sealed fairly well in a matter of seconds but did continue to weep a tiny amount of sealent over night. The sidewall is still weeping some small pinhead sized spots in a few places but after 24 hrs I can't tell that it has lost any pressure. I'm going to go hammer it on the trails tommorow and see how it holds up.

    I think wadester is right about the latex 'mold builder'. The sidewall and bead seems to leak such small amounts that the chunks and fiber are of little use...but the latex will eventually seal up the pours...I hope.

    Mikey

  22. #22
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    Pics - opened up

    1) The Ignitor/road rim/stanstrip on the front of the Karate Monkey after a year. After no problemo for nearly a year, had to pump up twice during one ride. This was March

    2) The Rampage/notube rim/stanstrip that's been running since the Rampage came out. Same deal - suddenly had to keep pumpin' it up.

    3) Tread condition of Rampage

    4) The sealant booger out of the Rampage - none in Ignitor
    Attached Images Attached Images
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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    Puttin' it back

    1) The good stuff: 5 pints of Wade's Secret Sauce, and three sizes of glitter. I consulted with my local glitter expert (my 11yo daughter), and found that glitter comes in different sizes - purple is medium, red is fine, the light blue/iridescent is x-fine. Woulda got a nicer color for the x-fine glitter, but this is what they had.

    2) 3 scoops of sauce, and 1/2 teaspoon of each glitter

    3) My secret weapon for beading a tubeless setup: It's just the soapy water mix recommended by Stan - the trick is the recycled pump spray bottle. Puts a good dose of lube on the bead where it belongs w/o making a huge mess - and the fine spray seems to wet the tire very well. Just stick the nozzle between the bead and the rim and spray all the way around the wheel.

    As a note, I got a small sidewall tear on the next ride - but noticed it at a stop because there was a tic-tac sized green bubble on the sidewall. Left it alone and it sealed up dry.
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    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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    Wade, I've been real happy with the setup I did using the old velociraptor and your 'sauce'. If this stuff last as long as you say, then I'll forgo the Stans.

    I have three sons that ride and get flats...I'd/we'd been repairing about two a week. I didn't want to do the tubless thing yet on all those bikes, so I just removed the valve stem core and squirted about 1 1/2 to two ozs. in each. No more flats...well, one exception...one of my sons hit a big rock and got an instant pinch flat. We pumped a little air in the tire, quickly laid it on its side and rotated and repeated on the other side. The holes sealed up and he has been riding that same tube since. I'm impressed.

    Mikey

  25. #25
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    Chunks....`

    I've been going straight Stan's for years and evaporation has not been an issue in the damp NE.

    An observation. Seems to me the last few bottles of Stan's I used have been much less granular (or chunky). The stuff seems almost like fresh milk instead of the old time Stan's which reminded me of sour, chunky milk. The last few punctures I've had were not sealing as they seemed just a bit too big for the Stan's to plug up. Thing is the holes were not that big and the mix just squirted out with out sealing. When it did ultimately seal the spots would often re-rupture quite easily. In the past I've had far larger holes easily plug with Stan's.

    Any thoughts?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    I've been going straight Stan's for years and evaporation has not been an issue in the damp NE.

    An observation. Seems to me the last few bottles of Stan's I used have been much less granular (or chunky). The stuff seems almost like fresh milk instead of the old time Stan's which reminded me of sour, chunky milk. The last few punctures I've had were not sealing as they seemed just a bit too big for the Stan's to plug up. Thing is the holes were not that big and the mix just squirted out with out sealing. When it did ultimately seal the spots would often re-rupture quite easily. In the past I've had far larger holes easily plug with Stan's.

    Any thoughts?
    I think you've stated the problem well: no chunks! I know that my sealant needs to be well-stirred to have the full blend rather than a layer of soup and a layer of extra-chunky. Perhaps Stan's process isn't always mixing well and you got a jug o' soup? Anyways, mix in some tubeless slime and/or glitter to re-chunkulate.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  27. #27
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    I just mixed up a half gallon of Wadester's mix last night (with glitter).

    Hopefully I'll be testing it out this weekend on a Weirwolf / Flow combination.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    I think you've stated the problem well: no chunks! I know that my sealant needs to be well-stirred to have the full blend rather than a layer of soup and a layer of extra-chunky. Perhaps Stan's process isn't always mixing well and you got a jug o' soup? Anyways, mix in some tubeless slime and/or glitter to re-chunkulate.
    Yup, add some slime that'll chunk it up

  29. #29
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    New Word

    This board is great. I learned a new word.

    Chunkulate: definition - to add particles to tubeless sealant or the process that follows from drinking to much Tequila the night before.

  30. #30
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    Tangent: Aside from all your ghetto mixing? How goes using non-tubeless tires on a converted clincher to tubeless wheel? And if any of you went tubeless conversion did you go ghetto too? or did you buy the kits?

  31. #31
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    I mix mine in a baby shampoo bottle. It is 24oz. It comes with a open/close pour spout. Shake well before pouring. I'll try the glitter next time.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by field3
    Tangent: Aside from all your ghetto mixing? How goes using non-tubeless tires on a converted clincher to tubeless wheel? And if any of you went tubeless conversion did you go ghetto too? or did you buy the kits?
    After doing lots of reading, I decided to order a Stan's tubeless kit online. But while waiting for my kit, I went ahead and experimented with 'ghetto tubeless', since there was plenty of green slime, and old inner-tubes lying around the shed anyway.

    I found the ghetto experiment was useful, but purely as a learning exercise. It did prove my chosen tires will air-up easily with just a floor-pump and sudsy water. Plus it proves that my rims need a layer of weather-stripping. But on the downside, I found ghetto tubeless messy and fiddly, plus I was unable to keep it inflated for any length of time. To sum up, it's easier to go with a kit.
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  33. #33
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    I use both...

    Quote Originally Posted by field3
    Tangent: Aside from all your ghetto mixing? How goes using non-tubeless tires on a converted clincher to tubeless wheel? And if any of you went tubeless conversion did you go ghetto too? or did you buy the kits?
    I run both. Ghetto tubeless and Stans system.

    With the Stans Arch and Flow rims, I use just the yellow tape and a valve with Stans liquid.

    On the ghetto tubeless, a split 26" tube over the top of some Velo tape works fine with Stans liquid. Never had a single problem with either so far.

    Just one thing though. If you are going to go the ghetto method, try to get the inner tubes with the removable valve core, it makes topping up the liquid sealant way easier.



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  34. #34
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    I ran tubeless a few years back but gave up because I kept burping tires (especially after a particularly bad rock to rim incedent).

    I never tried back then, so forgive my ignorance, but will CO2 "freeze" the sealant if you try to re-inflate after a tear or puncture that doesn't seal right away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by field3
    Tangent: Aside from all your ghetto mixing? How goes using non-tubeless tires on a converted clincher to tubeless wheel? And if any of you went tubeless conversion did you go ghetto too? or did you buy the kits?
    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    After doing lots of reading, I decided to order a Stan's tubeless kit online. But while waiting for my kit, I went ahead and experimented with 'ghetto tubeless', since there was plenty of green slime, and old inner-tubes lying around the shed anyway.

    I found the ghetto experiment was useful, but purely as a learning exercise. It did prove my chosen tires will air-up easily with just a floor-pump and sudsy water. Plus it proves that my rims need a layer of weather-stripping. But on the downside, I found ghetto tubeless messy and fiddly, plus I was unable to keep it inflated for any length of time. To sum up, it's easier to go with a kit.
    For sealant, homebrew works better.
    For tires, YMMV - each tire/rim combo has its own dynamic. That said, I've never had a tire not work altho some are easier than others.
    For rims - notubes rims are the bomb, and are most likely to work for all. I have converted a couple of other rims, and find standard rims to be more "fiddly". You have to keep the pressures higher with them, and when they run out of sealant seem to lose a bead vs the notubes which will let you keep pumping up til you get back.
    rimstrips - I haven't tried ghetto, or the yellow tape. I went with stanstrips and they work well, so haven't changed. They aren't a wear part, so once bought - you're golden.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  36. #36
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    While your at the craft store getting your Mold Builder pick up some Silica beads. They are used for drying flowers....
    Then you can put some of these tiny balls/pellets in your tire and they seal up tiny and bigger holes,,,, I have not put a micrometer on them but they work well,,, and you buy one bag that will last a life time for $5.
    my Mix

    1 part Mold builder
    1 part Napa Auto tire sealant
    2 parts EG anti freeze
    1/3 "stans" (cytomax) size scoop in tire

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by single track mind
    I ran tubeless a few years back but gave up because I kept burping tires (especially after a particularly bad rock to rim incedent).

    I never tried back then, so forgive my ignorance, but will CO2 "freeze" the sealant if you try to re-inflate after a tear or puncture that doesn't seal right away?
    CO2 will 'consume' some Stans latex. Lately, I've mixed Stans with Slime and found it to be much more resistant to the latex boogering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    Seems to me the last few bottles of Stan's I used have been much less granular (or chunky). The stuff seems almost like fresh milk instead of the old time Stan's which reminded me of sour, chunky milk. The last few punctures I've had were not sealing as they seemed just a bit too big for the Stan's to plug up. Thing is the holes were not that big and the mix just squirted out with out sealing. When it did ultimately seal the spots would often re-rupture quite easily. In the past I've had far larger holes easily plug with Stan's.

    Any thoughts?
    Try using mica instead of glitter. Mica was teh large glittery stuff used in paper products that Stan's used to use before they changed to the small coagulant that doesn't work quite as well. I'm sure it saves Stan's money, but if I have to add product to make their product work like it used to then I might as well make my own.

    Mica is found in the paper making isle at any Michaels type store.

  39. #39
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    Is Stan's getting cheap on us? Is glitter expensive? Maybe whatever Stans uses is expensive.

    I have been using this mixture with good, not great results for more than a year. I've had to add to it and clean out the tire several times during that time. It's being used in a commuter specific bike with 1.5" specialized tires. (and also my MTB's) Most recently when I checked it, it appeared the latex was dried out and there was green colored water like in the photo's above. I have not been adding the cheap antifreeze, but will start now.


    1 part latex mold builder
    1 part slime
    2 parts water

    While this formula has sealed many punctures, it does need maintenance to stay alive. I originally read about the antifreeze and did not want to use it for fear it would damage my tires, but this thread has made me see the error of my thoughts. I'll add it next maintenance opportunity.

  40. #40
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    I've been running Stan's on Arch rims with fine results. Just did 6 wheels with Stan's and ghetto (26" tubes) and had some trouble with one (Saguaro on Holm 40mm rim). Now I find that I have a bunch of Slime for tubes from some years back. Has anyone tried mixing it with Stan's? I know everyone states tubeless Slime, but I have the tube schtuff.

    I will try it and report back, if noone knows. I think that 2 scoops Stans and 1 scoop Slime tube in that monster tire.
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  41. #41
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    I run Slime with Stans, it works fine.


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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I run Slime with Stans, it works fine.


    R.
    Yeah, lots of posts here an other places about mixing them; it is the kind of Slime I'm asking about. Am I wasting time to use the tube version I have? Is the tubeless Slime required? Inquiring minds want to know........
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Yeah, lots of posts here an other places about mixing them; it is the kind of Slime I'm asking about. Am I wasting time to use the tube version I have? Is the tubeless Slime required? Inquiring minds want to know........
    The difference between tubeless slime and "regular" slime - is the addition of rubber chunks. If you use regular, you won't get as much chunk action. I have been told (and have it in trial now) that adding glitter gives you good chunk selection - especially since there are at least 4 or 5 sizes of glitter. And colors - think milky green fluid with purple glitter.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  44. #44
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    If you're running UST, and just want a little thorn protection, would straight Stan's be the best choice?
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighMark
    If you're running UST, and just want a little thorn protection, would straight Stan's be the best choice?

    Stans works fine, but is still subject to the faster drying out syndrome...which is why you should mix your own brew...

    On average, in warm to hot temps, Stans has to be topped up every 3 months or so... whereas a home brew can last up to a year.




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  46. #46
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    I went out and got stuff to try wade's brew this afternoon. I got the wrong slime, so hopefully i can swap that out this afternoon. I did find a 40% off coupon for hobby lobby (where i got the latex). Normally its about 12 bucks, so its a decent discount IMO.

    Here is the coupon.

    *no, i'm in no way related or tied to Hobby Lobby. Just thought i'd pass on the discount to you fellas.

  47. #47
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    Can anyone give a specific brand or place you're purchasing your cheap anti-freeze? I can't seem to find anything that I think will work. It looks like the RV stuff is more in line with what is necessary, but I am not sure.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker
    Can anyone give a specific brand or place you're purchasing your cheap anti-freeze? I can't seem to find anything that I think will work. It looks like the RV stuff is more in line with what is necessary, but I am not sure.
    Basically any generic / house brand. Here is one example.
    Last edited by slocaus; 07-23-2008 at 04:20 PM.
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  49. #49
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    The gallon I'm still using (1 pt at a time) is Auto Zone - I imagine the house brand of any low budget auto place will do.

    When I run out of that stuff, I intend to go puro:
    http://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemic...ne_Glycol.html
    No additives at all, and non toxic to boot. $12/qt, $20.58/gallon.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  50. #50
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    Pure air from atmosphere, wrapped in a Yes T00b.
    Professional Amateur

  51. #51
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    Stans and Slime mixed? Slime says it'll last 2 years and Stans is lasting 2-3 months. Sounds like I should get better life out of a mix, but does it work?

    Any long term feedback on a mix of Stans & Slime? What Slime did you use? And what was the mix ratio Stans:Slime? Thanks!

  52. #52
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    Slime & Bontrager Super Juice

    Personally, after changing everything I have found 1 part slime 2 parts super juice as the best long lasting combo.

  53. #53

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    Reading all of this makes me wonder if I should just go to the Solid Tires I had on my trike as a kid

  54. #54
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    I'm currently running 2 parts Stans with one part Slime [and glitter].

    No sealing problems and it lasts a long time... The Slime helps to prevent the Stans from drying out too fast.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynx
    I had slime from tha auto parts store and compared it to the regular and tubeless slime. The auto parts stuff is noticeably chunkier. I now run the same mix as most everyone else here.

    1 pt mold builder
    1 pt slime (auto parts store stuff)
    1 pt antifreeze
    1 pt windex

    It has been running strong in my tubeless rig (819 rims and Specialized Enduro UST 2.3 tires) for 6 months without replenishing. Stan's usually lasted a month here in the desert. The true testament will be if it can outlast the summer... The tires are about half worn and I never thought tires could be this trouble free!

    I've had lots of cactus thorns, 1 nail and 1 piece of glass. All have sealed quickly. The only downside is the stuff is slightly nasty looking when it picks up dirt after sealing a hole. Oh and you need to mix all the mold builder up in one shot. As such it helps to have friends who want to do their tires as well. A batch turns out about 3/4 gallon.
    i am about to mix my home made sealant, and i am wondering if your brew dries up quickly...i noticed that wadester commented that his brew does dry up...i am so excited about making my own stuff for my bike..
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I'm currently running 2 parts Stans with one part Slime [and glitter].

    No sealing problems and it lasts a long time... The Slime helps to prevent the Stans from drying out too fast.


    R.
    Same, same. Best combo I've found. I'm not sure the glitter does anything, but it looks really pretty on your gloves and shorts when you do get that flat every year or so.
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  57. #57
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    BUMP, because this is the best thread covering the subject. As always, there can never be enough opinions. I wish this was stickied in the Wheels&Tire subforum.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    The gallon I'm still using (1 pt at a time) is Auto Zone - I imagine the house brand of any low budget auto place will do.

    When I run out of that stuff, I intend to go puro:
    http://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemic...ne_Glycol.html
    No additives at all, and non toxic to boot. $12/qt, $20.58/gallon.

    Yep, I have used Propylene Glycol (we have it at work).

    Just a note, last time I did this I added the PG straight to the latex and it made one large lump of latex?? If you mix the latex with water etc first however and then add the PG it seems to work fine...

  59. #59
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    Some more data points:

    I found some 5 or 6 year old slime sealant (the kind you put into an inner tube) in my garage so I tried a ghetto-tubeless wheelset before using my new stans goo.
    Rims: Bontrager Mustang
    Tires: Stan's Crows

    I put pure slime in one wheel and it stayed inflated for about 24 to 36 hours.
    In the next wheel I placed a mixture of 2/3s slime and 1/3 Stans. That wheel held pressure for a week before getting a bit soft.

    So I added a scoop of Stans to the wheel with pure slime and it now is holding pressure with no apparent loss (going on 4th week).

    Cheer,
    Marty

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by inzane
    Yep, I have used Propylene Glycol (we have it at work).

    Just a note, last time I did this I added the PG straight to the latex and it made one large lump of latex?? If you mix the latex with water etc first however and then add the PG it seems to work fine...
    Wow. This is a good data point, and one I'll have to experiment with. The time I used NoTox antifreeze (Prestone?) I noticed that the latex had turned into strings and lumps. I tested my assumptions by putting a scoop of NoTox into a small jar, then adding a scoop of latex on top. Put down the scoop, put on the lid, and gave the jar a shake to mix - except the latex was a solid ball. Just a white rubber ball floating in NoTox - that quick. My Chemical Engineer neighbor told me that it was probably the additive package (anti corrosion/stop leak/etc) that did it - he didn't know of any reactivity between PG and latex. Looks like there's more to it, like perhaps a mixing technique.

    I just mixed another jug of sealant with cheap EG antifreeze. I recall putting in the latex first, then either slime or water - using the latex jar as a measurement and also rinsing out latex. Don't recall when the EG/AF went in. I'll have to try to make a few more rubber balls with antifreeze, both EG and PE - just for science, you know.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  61. #61
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    You will have to change that byline from "Dr Gadget is in" to "Dr Goop is in".
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    You will have to change that byline from "Dr Gadget is in" to "Dr Goop is in".
    How 'bout just "Muaah-ha-haaaaaaa" or some other good evil-scientist qoute?
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    How 'bout just "Muaah-ha-haaaaaaa" or some other good evil-scientist qoute?
    Well, (trying to stay semi on topic ), if the bead blows off, this one comes to mind.
    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2IlHgbOWj4o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2IlHgbOWj4o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
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  64. #64
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    Ot

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Well, (trying to stay semi on topic ), if the bead blows off, this one comes to mind.
    Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto!

    You're beautiful!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle2834
    BUMP, because this is the best thread covering the subject. As always, there can never be enough opinions. I wish this was stickied in the Wheels&Tire subforum.

    Not gonna happen.. Stans, Joes, Bontrager etc wouldnt like it.

  66. #66
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    On the Stans / Slime mix...how much total sealant are you using. Stans offers those 2 oz bottles which are supposed to be good for one tire.

    Sounds like some use 2 scoops - which would be 4 oz. So what about when mixed? Can I get by with a scoop of Stans and a half scoop of Slime for the 2:1 mix?
    Last edited by NCtrailX; 11-10-2008 at 04:10 AM.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrnfat
    On the Stans / Slime mix...how much total sealant are you using. Stans offers those 2 oz bottles which are supposed to be good for one tire.

    Sounds like some use 2 scoops - which would be 4 oz. So what about when mixed? Can I get buy with a scoop of Stans and a half scoop of Slime for the 2:1 mix?
    Depends on the size of tire and rim, therefore the resultant volume and surface area to coat. Stans Arch with a 2.1 tire, I use 2/3 Stans and 1/3 Slime for a total of 2 oz. I inflate with no fluid and valve core removed, and then use the injector to add the mix. On my humongeous Kris Holm rims with a 2.55 lt or RR 2.4, I use 4 oz. Any ghetto tubeless, I use 3-4 oz since there is more to seal and more fluid will be needed to compensate for leakage. Since I live in a dry climate, I recharge with 1-2 oz of fluid every 2-3 months.
    Last edited by slocaus; 11-10-2008 at 07:37 AM.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Well, (trying to stay semi on topic ), if the bead blows off, this one comes to mind.

    Haha, I thought the same thing! An old favorite!



    Back on topic- I have found that on some tires 2oz is more than enough. On other tires (such as my non-UST 2.35 Kenda Nevegal DTC's), 4oz was needed.

    -Josh
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  69. #69
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    Chunkulation datapoint

    An unfortunate mishap. Happened on the third ride with a new Rampage. Wah. The good was that the sealant actually sealed the hole - the bad was that it would only hold about 15psi, (as I pumped it up it would "pop" at 15, then reseal) and wouldn't hold for actual riding.

    But this is my first chance to eval glitter: Looks like it did some good, or at least it was in the plug. This was after a good water wash.

    The hole on the inside looks tiny, but sealant was oozing thru a 1/2" line on the outside.
    1) Outside
    2) Inside
    3) Plug removed
    4) Plug
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    An unfortunate mishap. Happened on the third ride with a new Rampage. Wah. The good was that the sealant actually sealed the hole - the bad was that it would only hold about 15psi, (as I pumped it up it would "pop" at 15, then reseal) and wouldn't hold for actual riding.
    Thanks for the pictures. Interesting that it would seal but not hold over 15psi or be able to ride out at 15 psi (carefully, of course). I have a couple ghetto wheels to redo, and I am going to add some glitter to my Stan's / Slime tubeless mix.
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  71. #71
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    so... i'm gonna make some brew.

    i like the idea of using proven names in the brew, instead of household products. nothing wrong with that... but why go reinvent the wheel... right?

    2 parts stans
    1 part tubeless slime
    1/2 part mica... roughly
    maybe some fresh ground pepper for taste

    i have big 'ol WW up front... smaller vulpine in the rear. 4 oz and 3 oz respectively probably.

    yes... that should do it. i was trying out the ghetto tubeless in the back for the past week. blew the entire tire off the rim coming off a curb today... about 35psi... wtf. so i have to get some real rim strip from stans... maybe some weather stripping to boot. i'll be in touch =)
    Ibis Tranny 29


  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    The gallon I'm still using (1 pt at a time) is Auto Zone - I imagine the house brand of any low budget auto place will do.

    When I run out of that stuff, I intend to go puro:
    http://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemic...ne_Glycol.html
    No additives at all, and non toxic to boot. $12/qt, $20.58/gallon.
    I like the idea of non-toxic, wonder if pure PG is a good idea after reading this in Wikipedia:

    "Propylene Glycol oxidizes when exposed to air and heat. When this occurs, organic acids are formed viz. Glycolic acid, Glyoxalic acid, Formic acid, Carbonic acid & Oxalic acid. If not properly inhibited, this fluid can be very corrosive."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

    Maybe the additives in automotive PG are a good thing?
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  73. #73
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    Bump, for a good solution.

  74. #74
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    I decided to give the home brew recipe a try. I can only imagine what the girl at the crafts store register must've been thinking when this middle aged guy strolls up with a tub of latex & three kinds of glitter
    No moss...

  75. #75
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    It will be worth it to try this just to see the expression on the girls face.

  76. #76
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    Wadster Your recipe is :
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    I have noticed that some people use windshield washer fluid instead of antifreeze and water. Since windshield fluid has ammonia or some other solvent in it and is mostly water do you think substituting windshield washer fluid for the water is a possible improvement?

  77. #77
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    So I finished mounting up two tires on Cane Creek Zonos UST wheels with mixed results.

    The front is a Panaracer Rampage non-UST (26x2.35). It mounted first try no problem. No leaks, bubbles, weeping, boogers.

    The rear is a 26x2.3 Hutchinson Python new Generation Air Light also non-UST. I've used these before ghetto tubeless with good results so I expected it would be a breeze.

    Nope.

    There was about a three inch section of the bead that wouldn't seal to the rim. I tried several times but it kept gurgling sealant. I finally bled the rest of the air out of the tire & pulled it back to see what's up. Glitter. A big wad of glitter was stuck between the sidewall & rim. I cleaned it out, aired up again & *POP!* sealed like a champ.

    So I guess the moral is don't get too carried away with the glitter. Oh, and ditching the tubes knocked 100 grams off the bike
    Last edited by jeffw-13; 02-03-2009 at 05:22 PM.
    No moss...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    Wadster Your recipe is :
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    I have noticed that some people use windshield washer fluid instead of antifreeze and water. Since windshield fluid has ammonia or some other solvent in it and is mostly water do you think substituting windshield washer fluid for the water is a possible improvement?
    The original idea behind WWF was to add ammonia, since that is what is used to keep the latex liquid. Here's a qoute:"ammonia (NH3) will be added to prevent the latex from coagulating. The two types of ammonia that can be used are 1) Concentrated Latex High ammonia: HA which uses 0.7% ammonia to rubber's weight 2) Concentrated Latex Low ammonia: LA which uses 0.2% ammonia to rubber's weight as well as other chemicals in order to store the latex for future use or to undergo other manufacturing process"

    But the funny thing is, when you check out the ingredients in most WWF (may need to find the MSDS or material safety data sheet) - its just soapy water and blue color, with maybe some methyl alcohol! Adding soap to sealant is probably a bad idea since soap is about separating things, not gluing them together.

    Ammonia is kinda like a stronger version of bleach, and I think that the problems that have happened in the past with tires deteriorating due to sealant is about the ammonia.
    As a note, every time I've pulled a tire off due to sealant dryout, its been completely dry. I've never had a case where the latex was all gone, but there was water/antifreeze left (clear green instead of milky). This implies to me that I don't need to add more ammonia to keep the latex liquid.

    If I was going to try Ammonia, I would get some clear ammonia - from the cleaning supplies section. Its basically just water with ammonia (MSDS says a whopping 2-3%!)- so would be a good replacement for the water in my recipe. I note that latex mold builder is listed as 1% ammonia by weight, so this should significantly raise the ammonia content.

    If you try ammonia, come back and let us know how it worked. I suspect that you would have to do one tire with water and the other with clear ammonia to tell a difference.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13
    So I guess the moral is don't get too carried away with the glitter.
    Quoted for comedy factor!
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  80. #80
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    When I was reading the recipe and the amonia thing came up I immediatly thought of Windex. It is mostly water with a little amonia and blue dye. I will probably try windex in my mixture in place of the water. I don't know if I will go the the trouble to mix 2 batches one with water and one with amonia and compair, but I might compair to my current mix of Stans with 1/3 Slime. What I might also do is mix up 2 very small batches in a jar and see if the Windex provides a longer shelf life.

  81. #81
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    I'm pretty sure the liquid latex I got has ammonia in it. Sure smells like it.
    No moss...

  82. #82
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    Yup. You should try those smelling salts if you ever get the chance. It's worth trying.
    ***

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    1 Stans - 1 Slime Tubeless - 1 Bonty Super Juice. Seems good. Hoping to learn more about the glitter idea by the time I need to mount up the next tire! Maybe a little quicker acting than the little rubber plugs in the Slime.
    Any long term input on this set up? Just a little less hassle it would seem than mixing the whole thing. More expensive though of course.
    Thanks
    G
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  84. #84
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    Thanks, Wadester. Your brew works and costs a fraction of Stans/Joe's.

  85. #85
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    Anyone else seen this?

    OK I mixed up a batch of Wadester's brew and have used it in two sets of tires. With my nokian tires on my cross bike no probably whatsoever. Had a hole in one of the tires when I mounted them and it sealed right up.

    Then I did a ghetto setup on my 26" utility bike which I'm running WTB All Terrainasaurus on. Everything locked and aired up fine but my back tire will continually be flat after it sits for a day. The sidewalls remain wet and when I add air I can hear it escapping from several spots in the sidewall. I'm thinking this is more a factor of the tires than the brew but has anyone else experienced this? Why won't my sidewalls seal up? I know Stan's is pretty runny too, but I'm wondering if this mixture is just a little too runny. Has anyone tried it with a stronger latex ratio?

    FYI I let these tires sit on their sides for at least a few hours after I mounted them up.

  86. #86
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    After several weeks the Rampage front tire still shows little green droplets along the sidewall & needs about 10 PSI added daily to bring it up to 30psi.

    A couple rides ago I nicked the sidewall on the rear and it spewed air & sealant and wouldn't seal. I ended up putting a tube in & have been riding that way since. Nothing like sealant on your brake rotors.

    I think I'm gonna have to break down & get some actual UST tires at some point.
    No moss...

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    OK I mixed up a batch of Wadester's brew and have used it in two sets of tires. With my nokian tires on my cross bike no probably whatsoever. Had a hole in one of the tires when I mounted them and it sealed right up.

    Then I did a ghetto setup on my 26" utility bike which I'm running WTB All Terrainasaurus on. Everything locked and aired up fine but my back tire will continually be flat after it sits for a day. The sidewalls remain wet and when I add air I can hear it escapping from several spots in the sidewall. I'm thinking this is more a factor of the tires than the brew but has anyone else experienced this? Why won't my sidewalls seal up? I know Stan's is pretty runny too, but I'm wondering if this mixture is just a little too runny. Has anyone tried it with a stronger latex ratio?

    FYI I let these tires sit on their sides for at least a few hours after I mounted them up.
    You need to keep them laying on their sides and flipping them until the latex can seal the porous sidewalls. I had one tire that took over two full days to finally seal, a WTB Prowler. Just flip it every few hours as convienient, I did them in the morning before I left for work and at night when I got home. Unless you keep them flat, the sealing process will take so much longer. I have realized that the most important component to tubeless conversions is not the rim, tire, solution, etc., but just patience - buckets and buckets of patience.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  88. #88
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    The other thing I would add is use soap when mounting. Soap really lets the bead seat well and I used to have problems with leakage around the bead before I started using a spray bottle of Dawn/water mix and an air compressor is also recommended (I always used that).

    Like the above posters said, some brands/models of tire will weep through little pin holes in the sidewalls unless you let the tires sit for long times at first. Generally though, these little leaks will amount to less than a pound or 2 a day so if you are losing 10 psi per day, I would suspect the bead seal and remount with lots of soap.

  89. #89
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    Hey Tim, I have been having the same problem with a front prowler. Need to inflate before every ride. Looks like the side walls are weeping. I am getting ready to put an ignightor on the rear and I'm thinking of trying the reciepe of 2 part stans to 1 part slime. This has been my first experience with the 29 wheel and it seems like you need to put much more sealant in that you would in the 26. I'm thinking maybe 2 scoops stans/one scoop slime.
    where do I find this slime product? Prolly will have to break down and re install the prowler too!

  90. #90
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    Tone, I pick up the tubeless tire stuff at an auto parts store . Retail there is cheaper than my cost at the shop. Yes, my Prowler wept for weeks, but did not loose much pressure. I burped it and went down about four months after first install, so I removed it to clean out the dirt and detritus I scooped up, even though it inflated and got me home.

    I have now reinstalled it three times, it wept through the injection mold feeler things for weeks. I would ride it just fine, and then after it sat for a couple days, it would weep. I an on a Mtn. King now, and back to Prowler in summer.

    John had to glue his with rubber cement on his Edge rims, and he recommends doing that on all rims. He puts a coat on the tire bead, and some on the rim bead. I will do that when I reinstall mine for the summer.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  91. #91
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    My Nevegal 2.35 has been mounted for a few months but still seeps slightly through the sidewalls. It holds air just fine though.
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  92. #92
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    Latex Ratio

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    Has anyone tried it with a stronger latex ratio?
    I had the same problem, but the tire would only loose about 10psi in a couple of days. And the wetness on the side walls was translucent green. I ended up using 1.5 latex instead of 1 in my next mix and it seemed to help. I did not lay my rims on the sides over night. When I pulled a goat head out of my front tire it did not seal. I broke the bead and checked and there was very little sealant left after only 2 weeks. I think it slowly seeped through. With the new mix added (approx 3oz) it sealed the thorn hole instantly. Then I punctured my rear tire (latex=1 mix) and it sealed after spinning my wheel. I have just been making small batches each time I have the need for the spooge so I don't commit all of my materials till I am comfortable with the mix. Right now I have the original Ghetto mix in the rear and the 1.5 latex mix in the front and both are working. If I keep leaking I will do the overnight on the side method, but for now its OK, since I check my tire psi before each ride anyway. This is all new to me too and have only 150miles since my 1st Ghetto setup.

    Treetrimmer

  93. #93
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    I've found 4 parts stans to 1 part bontrager juice works amazing.. Stans alone dries up too quick. The combination lasts much longer and with different consistencies it works great.

  94. #94
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    I think I am going to try 2 parts Stan's 1 part Slime(tubless type w/chunks?) and a pinch of glitter!
    what the hay!

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    I pretty much do equal parts slime, latex, EG antifreeze....depending on what tire I'm trying to get sealed.

    I've mixed in a few different ratios, and find the EG antifreeze helped with the longevity of slime+latex.
    ***

  96. #96
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    Are you guys still finding dried blobs of latex in your tires using the home brew? I'm using 50/50 Stan's and tubeless slime and still have large dried blobs after 2 months. How often do you check your sealant or do you just shake and listen for liquid rolling around still?

  97. #97
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    Not to worry

    Quote Originally Posted by azpoolguy
    Are you guys still finding dried blobs of latex in your tires using the home brew? I'm using 50/50 Stan's and tubeless slime and still have large dried blobs after 2 months. How often do you check your sealant or do you just shake and listen for liquid rolling around still?
    I've thought about ways to check the sealant level in my tires - but it always requires that you either break the bead or at least completely depressurize the tire, so a small bit of hassle. I've never been good at the "spin&slosh" method. I just run along like a happy camper until I notice that I have to keep pumping the tire up during the ride - go home, open it up, find it dry, fill'er up. Sometimes, if I don't note the pressure dropping I'll roll the bead apart and have to tube it - but that's no biggie once the sealant is dried out.

    With DIY sealant, I notice fewer sealant boogers - but still get'em. Of course, my sealant lasts long time - so by the time I go in there, the boogers are as big as any Stan's boogers I ever saw. Except that they're flourescent green and have rainbow glitter in them. Schweet!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  98. #98
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    Ok ......rainy day task...

    Stan's ZTR Arch Hoop's
    Front- re mounting my fairly new WTB Prowler 2.1

    Rear- installing and mounting a new Maxxis ignitor 2.1

    went just about 50-50 on the stan's and the slime for almost 4oz per tire

    spray bottle Dawn/water mix on the side walls

    one scoop Stan's / just about one full scoop of slime. One tablespoon blue glitter.

    Front, airs up and it pops on the bead and seals instantly with very little weeping. Lay wheel on side and flip every couple hours. Shaking vigorously rotating wheel.
    Sealed!!

    Rear, being a new tire, was a little fussy. Took a number of attemps to air up and seal. The issue was at the valve stem and rim interface.Had to loosen the lock nut on the valve stem and push the stem into the rim to get the new tire to seat under the rim wall. Once I got it to hold enough air to spin, I retightened the valve nut and brought the valve stem back into the rim tape to seal. Had to air up a number of times to pressure and spin side ways and shake and rotate. The Ignitor didn't weep on the side walls at all. Seemed to seal tight and holding air.
    will see how long the slime/stan's stays liquid.
    Tone.

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    Any thoughts about using straight "fix-a-flat"?

  100. #100
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    Does any of this really work?

  101. #101
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    Yup, that's why we're using it!
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  102. #102
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    Yes! Tubeless works great, but you have to be meticulous in your setup.

    Stans rims are best, but others work with rim strips.
    Use soap and a compressor to seat the bead.
    Use the home made mix or the Stans/Slime mix. 29er tires might need around 50% more sealant than 26ers.
    Let the tire sit on its side for a while then shake per the Stans videos and let it sit on the other side. Repeat. 2 one hour sits per side should do it.

    You should end up with a tire that loses less than half psi per day and is way less likely to flat on the trail and is more compliant with less rolling resistance and can run lower pressure. Also, if you use Stans rims you save around 200 grams per tire of rolling mass due to eliminating the tube and not using a rim strip.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone No Balone
    Rear, being a new tire, was a little fussy. Took a number of attemps to air up and seal. The issue was at the valve stem and rim interface.Had to loosen the lock nut on the valve stem and push the stem into the rim to get the new tire to seat under the rim wall. Once I got it to hold enough air to spin, I retightened the valve nut and brought the valve stem back into the rim tape to seal. Had to air up a number of times to pressure and spin side ways and shake and rotate. The Ignitor didn't weep on the side walls at all. Seemed to seal tight and holding air.
    will see how long the slime/stan's stays liquid.
    Tone.
    Tony, I have to do the same with my Stan's standard valve stems, loosen the lock nut and push them up into the tire. I crank them back down after I get the bead seated and before inflation. I noticed that my Mike C built wheels have the Olympic valve stems with a smaller rubber head and do not interfere with seating; the wheels I built I used the standard stem, and need to loosen it first.

    I love the Ignitor rear, seals quick and easy. Only other ones that seal so simply are Ardent and Mtn. King.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  104. #104
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    Should this homebrew be pretty watery? Or is thick to medium consistancy? My ratios are correct, but it seems very thin and watery. Questioning the sealing properties?

    Tires seem to be sealed very well around the bead, however.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    Yes! Tubeless works great, but you have to be meticulous in your setup.

    Stans rims are best, but others work with rim strips.
    Use soap and a compressor to seat the bead.
    Use the home made mix or the Stans/Slime mix. 29er tires might need around 50% more sealant than 26ers.
    Let the tire sit on its side for a while then shake per the Stans videos and let it sit on the other side. Repeat. 2 one hour sits per side should do it.

    You should end up with a tire that loses less than half psi per day and is way less likely to flat on the trail and is more compliant with less rolling resistance and can run lower pressure. Also, if you use Stans rims you save around 200 grams per tire of rolling mass due to eliminating the tube and not using a rim strip.


    ok, I have a 29 wheel set coming with stans arch rims. Am I going to have to constantly add air to a properly sealed tubeless setup.
    09 Superfly

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by wycough
    Should this homebrew be pretty watery? Or is thick to medium consistancy? My ratios are correct, but it seems very thin and watery. Questioning the sealing properties?

    Tires seem to be sealed very well around the bead, however.

    Mine is about a medium consistency. Stans is really watery, as you add Slime it gets thicker.
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    ok, I have a 29 wheel set coming with stans arch rims. Am I going to have to constantly add air to a properly sealed tubeless setup.
    I have three wheel sets tubeless, two Arch / yellow tape / notubes stems, one (Sun High Rider = 29er RhynoLIte) converted with Stans rims strips. They all loose 4-6 pounds a week. I check my tires every time before a ride and always have for years with tubes, so no big deal to me.
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  108. #108
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    Of course

    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    ok, I have a 29 wheel set coming with stans arch rims. Am I going to have to constantly add air to a properly sealed tubeless setup.
    Just like with tubes.
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  109. #109
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    50% more sealent for a 29" tire that is 10% longer? Are they so much more flat-prone, to you?

  110. #110
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    So what is the consensus amount of concoction for 29" 2.2" tire? 2oz, 2.5oz, or 3oz.
    09 Superfly

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    I used 4oz, but mine seemed kinda watery.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    So what is the consensus amount of concoction for 29" 2.2" tire? 2oz, 2.5oz, or 3oz.
    At 80 grams per 2 oz bottle, I only use one.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    I've thought about ways to check the sealant level in my tires - but it always requires that you either break the bead or at least completely depressurize the tire, so a small bit of hassle. I've never been good at the "spin&slosh" method. I just run along like a happy camper until I notice that I have to keep pumping the tire up during the ride - go home, open it up, find it dry, fill'er up. Sometimes, if I don't note the pressure dropping I'll roll the bead apart and have to tube it - but that's no biggie once the sealant is dried out.

    With DIY sealant, I notice fewer sealant boogers - but still get'em. Of course, my sealant lasts long time - so by the time I go in there, the boogers are as big as any Stan's boogers I ever saw. Except that they're flourescent green and have rainbow glitter in them. Schweet!
    How do you check sealant in tubes? And what do you do when it dries out and you get boogers inside your tube? Use it for ghetto applications the next time? Should I run 26" tubes on my 29er rims for ghetto applications?

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb
    At 80 grams per 2 oz bottle, I only use one.

    So 2 oz. weighs 80g. Ouch! If I use 3 oz. I am within 20g of the tube I am replacing. Hmmm, seems like the weight savings argument is kinda a moot point.
    09 Superfly

  115. #115
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    It's all in how you look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    So 2 oz. weighs 80g. Ouch! If I use 3 oz. I am within 20g of the tube I am replacing. Hmmm, seems like the weight savings argument is kinda a moot point.
    The proper way to look at this is in terms of performance. 4oz of sealant gives the same flat resistance as a thornproof tube with 2oz of slime in it. Compare THOSE weights - and then consider that the tubeless setup will have less rolling resistance than the most airweight latex tube - as well as better traction.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  116. #116
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    I ride a steel entry level 29er @ 27lbs. I'm not worried about a couple of ounces. It's the flat resistance I'm after without going to a slime tube.

    The homebrew sealed up good. I'll check out the ride this weekend.

  117. #117
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    Cloxxki: I did the math and using average sizes and keeping everything the same a 29er is about 11% bigger in volume so I guess you should use 2.22 oz of sealant not 3 as I suggested.

  118. #118
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    Does dried latex build up on the rim and tire over time and can you peel it off easily?

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by esXso
    Does dried latex build up on the rim and tire over time
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by esXso
    and can you peel it off easily?
    Irrelevant, given that it does not build up.
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  120. #120
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    It's the ride quality of the tire I'm after. At 30/32# the tire rolls over the stutter bumps nicely. A tubed tire will bounce where the Stanz'd tire will roll and absorb the terrain. I think the weight factor is just about a push.
    I just got out for a ride Friday afternoon, the first one since I installed a new rear and re installed a front tire 50/50 Stan's/Slime for almost 4 oz per tire. They sat in the bike stand for about five days and lost a littl air. The front still giving me a little problem, side wall seep but after my ride yesterday, It looks like it's holding air. On the rear, I opened the valve to air up with the floor pump and some Slime jizzed out and sorta clogged the valve stem a little so I pumped more air and it seemed to clear the stem!
    I think I am over the hump of installation and beginning to complete the deal....errr...seal.

  121. #121
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    1 oz=28.6g so 2 oz is approx. 60g.

    Sorry, I see that you're mentioning fl oz which is around 40g/oz.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb
    At 80 grams per 2 oz bottle, I only use one.

  122. #122
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    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    So 2 oz. weighs 80g. Ouch! If I use 3 oz. I am within 20g of the tube I am replacing. Hmmm, seems like the weight savings argument is kinda a moot point.
    Some of the new ust tires, like the Geax Barro Race are pretty light, like 740 grams. If no sealant is required, it's the equivalent of a 660 gr tire with 80 gr of sealant. Starts to look interesting considering the thicker sidewalls at little or no weight penalty. At this point it's all speculation, as I haven't tried a true ust tire yet, and there may be other issues involved.

    I am going to try a ust tire soon, though, for sure. I've heard you can rubber cement the beads and run completely dry.
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  123. #123
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    Are there any materials that I could substitute for antifreeze?

    The potentially nasty side effects, particularly in a neighborhood with lots of little kids around, are something I'd like to avoid.

  124. #124
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    Some use windshield washer fluid instead.

  125. #125
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    Propylene glycol is considered "non toxic", as I believe has been mentioned, but may cause mixing problems. Seems to form some nasty corrosive compounds when exposed to heat and air, doesn't sound like a good around bikes or other living things.

    Seems windshield washer fluid is poisonous also:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

    The best solution would be to not have to add anything to run tubless, ie true UST.
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  126. #126
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    duplicate post ???
    I ride with the best dogs.




  127. #127
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    Make the concoction effective enough so that you don't have to top it off often. Propylene glycol is very important in making the slime/latex mix last. It's a thin liquid carrier, so it seeps through pores that latex/slime are slower to get through. I found my tires would seal much more quickly and effectively with the PG added. Allows me to get away with using less sealant overall.

    much thanks to the people who contributed to an effective system!
    ***

  128. #128
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    50/50 stans/slime

    How do you know how long it lasts, do you guys dismount and check it? It has been quite a while on mine but I don't really ride that often

    BTW I have a rear tubeless and a front tubed - the tubed loses air faster than the tubeless

  129. #129
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    A new foaming latex formula sealant "caffélatex" that is claimed to better seal sidewall punctures and last longer was shown by the Italian manufacturer EFFETTO MARIPOSA (https://www.effettomariposa.com) at NAHBS 2009 (https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/200...ults/nahmbs096):


  130. #130
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    This makes sense. Bubbles are caused by surface tension in liquids. Anti-foam agents release surface tension. In tire sealant application, increasing surface tension would increase foaming.

  131. #131
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    Sparkle size

    I went to the art supply store looking for 3 sizes of sparkles for my tubeless setup. The picture is of the largest sparkles. Do you think these are too big? Will it plug the presta valve?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  132. #132
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    Those are probably too big to plug most leaks because when a corner gets in the hole, too much will be sticking out and get washed away when the rest of the sealant package floats by.

    When you go to the art supply store ask for "glitter" not sparkles. I can send a picture if you need one. They had lots of glitter and I grabbed 3 different particle sizes.

  133. #133
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    Materials I've seen suggested for adding to mixture:

    glitter of varying particle sizes
    somewhat finely grounded tube
    a fibrous cloth or paper towel
    pepper
    anything relatively fine that won't dissolve in the mixture
    ***

  134. #134
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    Funny you should suggest ground tube. I pulled all the little molding nipples off a tire and threw them in the mixture too. They looked like little rubber plugs to me.

  135. #135
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    Thanks for the reply. I'll try a different store and use glitter only.
    Purple - medium
    Red - fine
    Light Blue - extra fine

  136. #136
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    Is the glitter good enough to solve a 5mm long sidewall tear (that doesn't go all the way through)?

    I have patched it air tight with the glitter, but I'm wondering how trailworthy it is, based on a few scoops of stans, 1 scoop slime and a toss of glitter.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Is the glitter good enough to solve a 5mm long sidewall tear (that doesn't go all the way through)?

    I have patched it air tight with the glitter, but I'm wondering how trailworthy it is, based on a few scoops of stans, 1 scoop slime and a toss of glitter.
    A similar experience that I had (pics on first page) wouldn't hold much air - and I wound up tubing it, and putting in a patch at the house. If your tear is holding air, and not seeping - I wouldn't worry a whole lot, but keep an eye on it. The fix is to tear it down and patch it whenever you get ready.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    A similar experience that I had (pics on first page) wouldn't hold much air - and I wound up tubing it, and putting in a patch at the house. If your tear is holding air, and not seeping - I wouldn't worry a whole lot, but keep an eye on it. The fix is to tear it down and patch it whenever you get ready.
    Noted. Thanks.

  139. #139
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    I did a 50/50 mix of stans and slime auto today and it worked very well in my first tubeless setup. I will report back on how long it lasts. Thanks guys for the help.
    09 Superfly

  140. #140
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    Ok, after a day no loss in pressure. Yeah! But, I think I may have put too much sealant in the tires. I initially went with 1.75 stan's scoops on the first tire and noticed that I didn't hear anything sloshing around when I was doing the shake thing. So I opened one side and added another scoop. I also went with 2.75 scoops on the rear tire. Problem is that they are sealed but you can still hear sealant sloshing around is you take the tire of and shake it. Is this normal? If not, how can I get the "extra" out without breaking the bead?
    09 Superfly

  141. #141
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    The only way out is through the valve stem. Unless you are racing for money, I would just leave it. A little extra sealant won't hurt and only weighs a few ounces.

  142. #142
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    You want the extra. It rolls around and squirts out to seal when you nail a puncture.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    Tends to last for about a year vs 3 months for Stan's, and I live in the southwest desert (LC NM). Seals better, less "wet spotting".
    After running out of Stans, I decided to take the plunge and make up some with wadester's formula. Probably spent in the neighborhood of $25 - $30 in supplies ($8.50 for 24oz of slime, $8 for bottle of antifreeze, $12ish for the latex mold, couple bucks for glitter) but it will easily make up 3 or 4x as much solution as a bottle of Stans. Seems a little more watery than I would have guessed, but I would say similar consistency to Stans.

    Have front tire running straight Stans, and the back will be running the "secret sauce" so should have a good, controlled test of Stans vs homebrew under conditions that will be held the same. Also should be a good test to see if they seal similarly since they'll both be subjected to the same riding terrain, which of late has meant lots of goatheads.

    Thanks for the formula and tips.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    1 Stans - 1 Slime Tubeless - 1 Bonty Super Juice. Seems good.
    I usedonce a Hutchinson fluid in the tube and it sealed the Schraeder valve !!

  145. #145
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    If using Hobby Lobby, google "hobby lobby coupon". They still have 40% coupon off any one item for the latex mold builder. It was very hard to find in the store and the employees were unfamiliar with locating it.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by wycough
    If using Hobby Lobby, google "hobby lobby coupon". They still have 40% coupon off any one item for the latex mold builder. It was very hard to find in the store and the employees were unfamiliar with locating it.
    Amen to that. It took me about 10 minutes each with 2 employees and they couldn't find it, then I searched for another 20 minutes and finally found it. It was in a corner of the store on the very lowest shelf. Not an easy find at all.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6
    A new foaming latex formula sealant "caffélatex" that is claimed to better seal sidewall punctures and last longer was shown by the Italian manufacturer EFFETTO MARIPOSA (https://www.effettomariposa.com) at NAHBS 2009 (https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/200...ults/nahmbs096):

    I'm interested in this stuff? Anyone come across this in the Euro mags or forums?

    https://www.cantitoeroad.com/catalog...acturers_id=13
    https://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/introd...etto-mariposa/
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  148. #148
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    Looks like you can actually buy this stuff now.

    http://cantitoeroad.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=117

    It's pricey, about 50% more than stan's. $30 for a liter.

    It's got me thinking though, you can buy synthetic latex binders for adding to mortar, they're about the consistency of tire sealant. I've got some around from a tile job, I'm gonna try adding some glitter and a surfactant, test it on some old tires.

  149. #149

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    2 questions

    1. Anybody tried the ATV/Mower version of slime? You can see big 'ol chunks in there.

    2. Anybody who is just doing Stans + Slime and nothing else think this combo gets a little too viscous? I am guessing this is why a lot of folks are using wiper fluid or anti freeze


    Plus, I really want this to get bumped back up to the top so people can report on long term success of their brews. Still trying to figure mine out.

  150. #150
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    I use ATV/Mower Slime and Stans in a nearly 50/50 mix. Yes it is thick. This summer when temperatures really climb, I imagine the Stans would evaporate first so I may add more of that and change my mixture to 60/40.
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  151. #151
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    I found this guy in my front tire after 5 months of using one scoop of Stan's and one scoop of ATV Tubeless Slime, plus about two tablespoons of 0.7mm purple glitter. It sounded like a bouncy ball was stuck in my tire as I rode slowly! Surprisingly there was still 1oz or so of fluid left in the tire. As you can see much of the glitter made its way to the tire bead. I don't know if that's bad or not.


  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Village
    I found this guy in my front tire after 5 months of using one scoop of Stan's and one scoop of ATV Tubeless Slime, plus about two tablespoons of 0.7mm purple glitter. It sounded like a bouncy ball was stuck in my tire as I rode slowly! Surprisingly there was still 1oz or so of fluid left in the tire. As you can see much of the glitter made its way to the tire bead. I don't know if that's bad or not.
    Seeing as the tire bead is one of the main things that the sealant has to seal - that's not so bad. But it does speak to the type of hole glitter will seal. We're building sealant with latex - a liquid that will creep into any opening and dry/congeal, but is not that strong. We add slime, which has fibers - that thread thru holes and basically jam enough of themselves into the hole to plug it, or at least make small enough spaces to let the latex finish the job. The rubber chunks add another dimension, as lumps that will fill a bigger hole or at least block it enough for the others to work.

    But glitter? It is a flat plate, which is good for slipping into slits like the bead area - or maybe like laying a patch over a hole. I haven't seen any evidence of this flat plate thing yet. The one plug I pulled out of a sidewall cut contained glitter, but it was all lined up with the flow direction, not across it. I'm thinking glitter may not be the next big thing in sealant after all.

    Somebody mentioned ground black pepper - which I thought was a joke - but it would have the right shape to plug a hole. Someone else had mentioned silica beads - which sounds like a good way to plug a hole. Have to check'em out.

    The foaming thing sounds promising - and I'll ask my chemist friends if they can recommend any hobby grade things that would promote foaming and be compatible with latex and antifreeze.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  153. #153
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    i don´t use glitter anymore....i noticed that it clogged up with the latex mix badly and did no help sealing punctures...instead, i just went with latex, antifreeze, water, and some sealant from napa auto parts....i also did not like slime because it would squeeze through my sidewalls...what i really liked and noticed is that water helps latex build up the clogs....so my mixture is (in scoops):

    Latex: 4
    Antifreeze: 1
    Water: 2 or 1.5
    Napa: 1

    I honestly have to say that the napa auto parts sealant might not be of any help, but i just have to get rid of it somehow lol, so as soon, as it is gone, I will not use it anymore...
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  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorholguin
    i don´t use glitter anymore....i noticed that it clogged up with the latex mix badly and did no help sealing punctures
    Where I ride, (cactus,goatheads,tumbleweeds,thornsthornsthorns) thorn punctures are sealed noticeably quicker and with less sealant leakage if something is used to soupify the mixture. My friends have it worse than me....they weigh more and require higher tire pressures, making it difficult to stop the leakage of sealant if the thorn is particularly nasty.

    I'll admit, many could and should get by without it, because it is annoying to work with, but glitter did help me in the north Texas area.
    ***

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    But glitter? It is a flat plate, which is good for slipping into slits like the bead area - or maybe like laying a patch over a hole.
    I sent you a pm a while ago, which you answered. It was about the tire blowing off the rim after I re-inflated it because it dropped around 15 psi and this statement has got me thinking.
    Maybe glitter is not such a good thing, especially if you have two sets of wheels and you don't check both very often.

    My thought is that the glitter, being a very thin plate (as stated) slips into the bead area, more-so if the psi is very low. Glitter doesn't have a very high coefficient of friction, or so I believe, and if too much gets into the bead area, and you re-inflate the tire suddenly, could the glitter's low friction cause the tire to slip it's bead and blow open?

    Just a thought, would welcome any ideas.
    Den

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog
    Any thoughts about using straight "fix-a-flat"?
    Tried it nasty and did not seem to work too well. Stunk also. Formula was a bit toxic for the bike room and for you.
    Straight Stan's here and just replace after a few months when it's molecular construct breakdown makes it less effective and dries out (small price to pay for no flats unless you are really poverty stricken. 1 32 oz last me about a year at about 15 bucks.) Then, just throw away tire when it is worn out with all the dried up garbage. No sidewall seepage, no flats and no fuss. Been doing this for several years now. I will never go back to flats....err tubes. Only thing I might do (if I ever have a hole that will not seal is add some glitter But......
    Have to say this was without anything added:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BsT8D9JYY )
    The caffélatex stuff sounds promising...but after all this time and no flats....welllllllllll
    Also, the secret Hooters sauce. https://www.notubes.com/pdf/VN052305.pdf
    Last edited by ghawk; 04-09-2009 at 04:53 AM.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    Quote Originally Posted by 5titusguy
    While your at the craft store getting your Mold Builder pick up some Silica beads. They are used for drying flowers....
    Then you can put some of these tiny balls/pellets in your tire and they seal up tiny and bigger holes,,,, I have not put a micrometer on them but they work well,,, and you buy one bag that will last a life time for $5.

    I used WSS & a pinch of Silica for every scoop of WSS I put in the tire & it worked great this past weekend, as i got a hole in the top center of the tire & it sealed up.

    Only used this batch for a couple of weeks so far so good.

    Also for the price of doing your homebrew you have a ton of extra WSS left over.
    San Diego MTB forum www.dirttreaders.com

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskitall
    I used WSS
    I'm lost on this acronym.......
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I'm lost on this acronym.......
    Wadesters Secret Sauce
    San Diego MTB forum www.dirttreaders.com

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskitall
    Wadesters Secret Sauce
    I was almost there, since you quoted wadester, but it still does not work for me, at least the middle S.
    Maybe WWS, but it ain't secret no mo..... Carry on.......
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  161. #161
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    What about mixing the CaffeLatex with slime and/or Stan's ? Did anyone try?

  162. #162
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    When you guys are talking 1 part this and one part that, how much is a "part"? 1 cup.....2 cups....1 teaspoon.....etc....?

  163. #163
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    Parts is parts

    As long as the "parts" are all the same amount - you mix what you want for a final amount.

    I like to mix with a pint as the "part", so as to use the full pint of latex. It dries out if left in the jar, but once mixed (in a glass jar) it is good to the last drop. Makes 5 pints, and fits in a 80oz pickle jar (pint=16oz, 5 pints = 80oz so it is an almost exact fit)
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  164. #164
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    i personally have had extremely good success with running these things called tubes in my tires, i know it sounds crazy but it works. i rarely get flats and it never 'wears out'

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i personally have had extremely good success with running these things called tubes in my tires, i know it sounds crazy but it works. i rarely get flats and it never 'wears out'
    Kind of like Carbon 29er rims, Eh?

  166. #166
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    yup

    the tubes are cheap reliable and clean, the rims are expensive reliable and clean

  167. #167
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    Some uf us run tubeless for the better tire compliance with the terrain and lower rolling resistance. Flat protection is just icing on the cake.

    Please do not be a troll in this thread. If you like tubes, that is fine, but we do not need an evangelist here, thank you. I run tubes in some bikes, tubeless in others. Personal freedom of choice.
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  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i personally have had extremely good success with running these things called tubes in my tires, i know it sounds crazy but it works. i rarely get flats and it never 'wears out'
    Hey Thanks!
    I had no idea I had the option of running tubes!?! Now why don't you get on a full suspension thread and tell them why you ride a rigid.

  169. #169
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    Customfab- living in the non flat tire capitol of the world you might not be the best to comment on Tubeless brews. I rode in Bend for 15 years and was able to go 4 years once without a flat.
    After moving to the flat tire capitol of the world(Phoenix,AZ). I wasn't able to ride more than 1 mile without a flat. I've been flat free for over a year since going tubeless. Yes the rolling benefits are nice but being able to ride all day,all month,all year without a flat is priceless.

  170. #170
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    What should I add if my goop is drying up too fast?
    I got a good 4 months on my first recipe then I added glitter and barely went a month until I had a big latex ball and barely a coating of sludge (which didn't fix the holes) left.

    DT

  171. #171
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    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtheo
    What should I add if my goop is drying up too fast?
    I got a good 4 months on my first recipe then I added glitter and barely went a month until I had a big latex ball and barely a coating of sludge (which didn't fix the holes) left.

    DT
    You can use whatever liquid component in your original brew, or add something that does not evaporate. Or just add a couple more ounces of your brew.
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  173. #173
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    I don't need validation, I can feel it. If you can't feel it then that is your loss. If you are going to say that I am easily fooled I think not because I do roll down testing on everything that effects performance and the rolling resistance is real and I can feel the traction on the trails.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.
    I heard rubber was overrated. You should get yourself one of these:

    wheel_jpg.jpg

  175. #175
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    Several of the pro teams went tubeless for Paris-Roubaix this year:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...-R_FDJ_sealant

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...J_spare_wheels

    If these guys are doing it, I can guarantee you that they have tested it and it is better for this race than running tubes. Which the cobbles that this race runs over are similar to the small rocks we encounter on trails.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    I don't need validation, I can feel it. If you can't feel it then that is your loss. If you are going to say that I am easily fooled I think not because I do roll down testing on everything that effects performance and the rolling resistance is real and I can feel the traction on the trails.
    He is an egomaniacal, passive aggressive.....

    .... tool. Spreading the tubeless hate all over the site. Put him in your twit, uh, Ignore list...

    Do not feed the troll, uh, tool,,,,,
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  177. #177
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    as much of a techno phobe as i may sound i am pretty open to most ideas in cycling. i just can't justify the hassle of tubeless for my prefer pursuers and locations

  178. #178
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    Then stop trying to brow beat everyone here into accepting your narrow minded attitude.....
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    as much of a techno phobe as i may sound i am pretty open to most ideas in cycling. i just can't justify the hassle of tubeless for my prefer pursuers and locations
    Life is all about perspective. Tubeless might not seem worth it on your trails, but to many people in this thread, the pros far outweigh the cons.

    Myself, I love no longer needing to remove thorns from the previous days ride that have flattened my tire overnight and patch tubes in order to ride again.

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  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.

    the tire compliance part is pretty logical actually. in a tubed tire you have not only extra rubber in the form of a tube adding a little bit of stiffness, but friction between the tube and tire every time you hit a bump. it's a small amount of movement, but there is a large amount of friction. so it's not necessarily the tire becoming more compliant, but the tire setup as a whole.


    i don't know if the rolling resistance part has ever been proven.

    i still run tubes, but will be trying tubeless in one of my wheelsets within the next week or two.

  181. #181
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    You can hear the difference also, the tire sounds lighter as it rolls over things.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  182. #182
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    Good job! Stan's Sealant

    Found amazing you tube video of Stan's torture test where he ran a tire through its paces.

    Anyone try a batch of Stan's which basically as I understand is a liquide based latex model builder solution that is water/ammonia soluable based with something that would have a tendency to keep the formulation from drying out over time like something inert and non-reactive like good old fashioned mineral oil; as that should keep things from drying out probably for around a year.

    Stan's formulation uses some kind of force activation additive that causes it to seal punctures at the tire puncture site but the problem as I understand is it loses the water moisture over two month period of time through the tires carcass.

    Please feel free to report your results and feedback from out their in the field with your particular setups
    Last edited by daniel58; 04-25-2009 at 07:33 AM.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    Hey Thanks!
    I had no idea I had the option of running tubes!?! Now why don't you get on a full suspension thread and tell them why you ride a rigid.
    although my current ride is a Ti kona WITH front suspension i had a full carbon fully suspended ibis last summer. although i probably wont buy another FS bike i will never have one without a suspension fork.

  184. #184
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    just mixed up my first ever batch of tubeless brew. i used:

    @1 part latex mold builder
    @1 part water
    @1part slime auto
    @ 1 part or less propylene glycol antifreeze(sierra brand).

    i live in a house with a lot of dogs who will lick anything once, so ethylene glycol in something that could end up all over the place was not an option.

    as per someones instructions earlier, i mixed the latex, water and slime first, then added the PG antifreeze, and didn't notice any lumping or latex hardening. it's about light milkshake consistancy. i started out trying to measure each part with a water bottle, but gave up after adding the latex and just kind of eyeballed it.

    aired up a tubeless downhill tire on a non-tubeless trials rim with stock rim strip and a valve stem cut out of an old tube. aired right up and is holding so far. hasn't been long though. i'll update more tomorrow.

  185. #185
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    Anyone have any good sources for synthetic latex that would be suitable for a tubeless brew? I am thinking of trying to make a foaming dealio like Caffelatex and don't want to use an ammonia based substance...

    I have been using the above homebrew recipe for a while and noticed some corrosion on my tires and rims...that was not there before...

    Thanks

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    aired up a tubeless downhill tire on a non-tubeless trials rim with stock rim strip and a valve stem cut out of an old tube. aired right up and is holding so far. hasn't been long though. i'll update more tomorrow.
    How did you use the 'old tube'?

    I have seen people post this before but I couldn't figure out if they glued it in or used a different method to keep it in place/air tight...
    "mountain biking and flyfishing, what more do you want?" - Yeah, I said it

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    What about mixing the CaffeLatex with slime and/or Stan's ? Did anyone try?
    yes, but not by choice and due to a poor choice in tires...
    Wanted to mount WTB Mutano Raptors 700cx44 on my monster cross.

    Rims: Salsa Delgado Cross with Stan's rim strip



    The tires were brand new. I mounted the front tire and tried to air it up with a compressor. It would not seat, soapy water did not help. But I was so anxious to get on with the project so I decided to just squish in the CaffeLatex and do it.




    When I blasted some air in the CaffeLatex blasted out of the rim bead and got all over the place, but then it finally "sproinged" onto the bead and all was good.



    I was covered in CaffeLatex dots and stringy rubbery crap was in my hair.

    So I decided to mount the rear tire with a tube and let it sit overnight to let the tire conform to the rim. The next day I pulled the tube, mounted the rims trip and tire and injected CaffeLatex through the valve (core was not removed).



    This went badly, all the sealant was blown out of the bead/rim interface. I added more CaffeLatex and blew that out again. Seems like CaffeLatex does not seal huge holes because it is too viscous. Well, you can't really expect it too.

    So I washed the tire, rim strip, and added a spooge of Slime Tube Sealant. In the pic you can see the Slime running down the rim and oozin gout of the tire even though there is no air in it.



    I aired up the tire with the compressor and now blew green sh!t all over the place, but I was already rubbery and stringy so it really didn't matter. The tire finally seated but was sizzling air out of the rim/bead interface. Slime was too gooey to coat the inside of the tire quickly despite lots of shaking.



    I added some CaffeLatex, shook the tire, and almost instantly the rim/bead sealed and stopped leaking air. Soapy water confirmed the seal.

    So I added a small spoogelet of Slime Tube Sealant to a water bottle. It was too thick to coat the bottle, even with shaking. It just kind of stuck to the bottle. A little bit of CaffeLatex was added, and then it combined with the slime to make a layer of green foam that coated the bottle.



    It has been a few days and the tires have lost no noticeable pressure.

    More on this here: https://www.twentyniner.ch/phpbb3/vi...php?f=9&t=1794
    Last edited by marty_hd; 05-04-2009 at 11:15 PM.

  188. #188
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbflyfshr
    How did you use the 'old tube'?

    I have seen people post this before but I couldn't figure out if they glued it in or used a different method to keep it in place/air tight...

    i cut about 1" diameter around the valve stem. inserted the valve stem into the rim. threaded the locknut down on it, cinched it down tight, then added another one to hold it on there good. seems to have worked like a charm. the photos i've seen on some mail order sites of the stans valves are basically the same thing. some of the photos i've seen you can even see the slightly jagged edges from where it was cut out.

  189. #189
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    I have had really good luck with Flows with yellow tape, Bonty XDX, and this brew:
    1 part Latex Mold Builder
    1 part Tubeless Slime
    1 part windex

    I had a little trouble sealing the valves, so I put some gasket maker around them and that helped once the sealant hit it. I added a tuna can's worth to each tire. The front leaks a little more than the rear, but only a few PSI a week. Very manageable. Seated with a floor pump.

  190. #190
    recognize the slowness
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    Cheers sean!!

    Clears that up. THKS!
    "mountain biking and flyfishing, what more do you want?" - Yeah, I said it

  191. #191
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    32 oz of Stans + 24 oz of Slime (ATV/Mower)

    (because thats what it comes in)

    Whats in my tires has worked well. The stuff thats not in the tires makes a nice looking splatter pattern all over my garage wall.

  192. #192
    MONKEYMAN
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    Those fibers in slime look an awful lot like dryer lint. Gonna be giving that a try on my next round.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  193. #193
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    Apologies if this has been noted before, I am just about to have a second go at tubeless, on my first go about three years ago I noted that Stan's patent for tubeless sealant used cornmeal (polenta to us Europeans) along with the latex/ water/ antifreeze. I might try oatmeal this time round. All that soluble fibre in oats must be as good for your tyres as they are for your digestive system...

    Also, if you are having trouble with sidewall pinholes, paint the inside of the tyre with a couple of coats of undiluted latex solution.

  194. #194
    Meat Clever
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    I'm goin ghetto this weekend using WSS recipe. Seems that glitter may not add any benefit. Thoughts from users regarding the benefit or lack thereof in using glitter? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaEps View Post
    A little bit of pee just trickled out of my pipi when I saw that.

  195. #195
    is buachail foighneach me
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    i have no input on the glitter, but just thought i would update that three weeks later and no air added and my tire is still sealed up fine. plenty of riding, no burping.

    WSS is the bomb.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Cloxxki got it: art supply stores, or the internets. Hobby Lobby is my usual source, but here's one: http://www.artmolds.com/product_deta...ubber&u_cat=28
    And more important, the Material Safety Data Sheet - which tells you it is latex and ammonia (and a bit of water, but they don't actually say that): http://www.artmolds.com/pdf/ACF5DCA.PDF


    I've brought spokeprep back to life by adding ammonia to it, and you might be able to do that to your LMB. But for $11/pt I would just spring for another jar. Once mixed into sealant, it hasn't degraded on me - stored in a glass jar inside the house.

    Amount to use? Just like Stan's - for a 2.4x29 tire I use 3 scoops (2 oz ea)
    You don't want anything with ammonia in it. It is highly corrosive to aluminum. There was a recent article on VeloNews about this that showed corroded rims.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDummy
    I'm goin ghetto this weekend using WSS recipe. Seems that glitter may not add any benefit. Thoughts from users regarding the benefit or lack thereof in using glitter? Thanks
    I did glitter in my first batch which is now just about gone. I will be leaving it out on my next batch. I couldn't really see any instances where I felt it was really doing any good, and when I did a tire swap I felt the glitter was making it harder for me to get the bead re-sealed once the tires were mounted. Seems like the glitter stuck on the edge of the bead just made extra spaces for air to escape. That's my theory anyway, the last batch was also my 1st batch so I don't have a great deal of personal experience to pull from.

  198. #198
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    I'm going to try ghetto tubeless using the tube/homebrew method. Any changes to your WSS recipe?

    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Thanks in advance,
    Will

    Oh and could someone advise which slime to get? Is "tubeless slime", the tube sealant you pick up at the bike shop?
    Last edited by William_Cannon; 05-22-2009 at 06:45 AM.

  199. #199
    4 Niners
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    Tubeless slime-not the slime for tube tires. Much as I hate Wal-Mart they sell it by the gallon for very cheep. The kind you want has little black chunks in it. The kind you don't want is all green.

  200. #200
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    Article on ammonia in sealants causing aluminum corrosion


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