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  1. #4201
    saddlemeat
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    ^WSS, the Stan's clones.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  2. #4202
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    I have a video of my BAMFS, will post soon.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  3. #4203
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    Have others had problems with homebrew formulations containing ammonia eating through the adhesive on various tapes? I've Gorilla Tape, Gorilla Clear Repair Tape, Chemtape (chemical-resistant duct-tape), strapping tape, and a few others fail on me using my Latex/PG/Windex/water/slime formulation.

    It seems that many folks are using formulations without ammonia, so the question is WHETHER AMMONIA IS BENEFICIAL, or does it just result in me re-taping rims every month?!

  4. #4204
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    Been running ammonia-based homebrew for several years with no issues ever with my tape - both Stan's yellow tape and Gorilla.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  5. #4205
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    no problems w/ammonia and tape...or with out.

  6. #4206
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    No problems with tape and ammonia, maybe scrub your rims with a solvent, alcohol, and soapy water.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  7. #4207
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    I have been running tubeless since year 2000.

    Have tried most on the way to a perfect tubeless setup.

    Started like most with latex based sealants.

    They dry out and stop sealing pretty fast if you live in a warm climate.
    They also ruin clothes and whatever they get on (when you get a hole in the rear tyre and continue riding you get a nice pattern of latex on your back if the hole is not very small.

    Like most I started out with rim strips and kits from Stan and Swiss and a couple of other similar inferior products. Did not know better.

    Now I ride with real tubeless wheels, real tubeless (not tubeless ready) tyres, use latex- and poison- free sealant that is not drying out but last as long as the tyres do.
    That way I spend more time riding my bike and less messing around with getting the rims airtight, getting the sealant to cover too thin side-walls, which is really time consuming.

    Latex is good for doctors and nurses gloves and probably a lot of other things, but for sealing tyres is sucks.

    If you live in the US try Quadboss ATV sealant, it last the lifetime of the tyres, if you live in Europe there are now so many making latex free sealant that you can google and find them.

    If you want to save a few bucks and spend a lot of time mixing and experimenting: Good luck.

    I just want to spend my spare time riding my bike.
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

  8. #4208
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    Quote Originally Posted by klavius View Post
    Hi

    Are all the sealants the same? Do they all get that sticky?

    I'm a pragmatic person, I prefer to enjoy the ride rather than worry about equipment, grams, ounces, obsesive maintenance, etc.


    Attachment 1018010
    Attachment 1018011Attachment 1018012Attachment 1018013Attachment 1018014

    No.
    Try latex free sealant from Quadboss. Will not dry out and will seal most holes and last liquid till the tyres need to be replaced.
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

  9. #4209
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    No.
    Try latex free sealant from Quadboss. Will not dry out and will seal most holes and last liquid till the tyres need to be replaced.
    Yeah right...
    I ride with the best dogs.




  10. #4210
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    Has anyone else tried this Quadboss sealant? I'd love a sealant that doesn't dry out.

  11. #4211
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.s67 View Post
    Has anyone else tried this Quadboss sealant? I'd love a sealant that doesn't dry out.
    Yeah. 5 years.
    No mess,
    no mixing,
    no waste of time trying to get a formula right,
    no sticky latex on clothes,
    no latex that dry out and need to be replaced (after a while the dried out sealant will be heavier than than the wheel),
    no fun trying to find a formula that is better than the companies that work with sealants professionally are doing.
    Lots of reasons to do what you like the most.
    Me: I like riding my bike more than mixing sealants!
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

  12. #4212
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    ^Sorry you had such a bad experience, why are you on this thread about homebrew sealant? You kinda sound like a shill. Pretty obvious you don't really mtb and use sealant.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  13. #4213
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    But wait...there's more!!!

  14. #4214
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ckeyeus View Post
    But wait...there's more!!!
    more!? you don't say?

  15. #4215
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    "after a while the dried out sealant will be heavier than than the wheel" - sounds like a challenge to me
    Anybody have dried out sealant in tires that weighs over 1450g? How about over 1000g?

  16. #4216
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    I have had a tire for a few years that in the end weighed ~100g more than it started with from dried sealant. I was shocked.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  17. #4217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy13 View Post
    Any thoughts on the Caffe Latex additive and their claim it doesn't play well with ammonia?

    image: https://68.media.tumblr.com/61d69fb1...u2bo1_1280.jpg


    Effetto Mariposa has a prototype powder that is added to its Caffe Latex tire sealant. This additive allows for better sealing of larger punctures. It’s a similar concept to other tubeless solutions that feature additives, but the V-CL additive is not packaged with the Caffe Latex in order to facilitate easier installation. While it may work with other sealants, representatives were quick to note that not all sealants are created equal, so use at your own risk. Some sealants, for example, contain ammonia, which doesn’t play nice with the V-CL additive.
    Yep. with CaffeLatex I had a hole in the rear tire and got a long pattern up the back of my jersey. It never got off.
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

  18. #4218
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^Sorry you had such a bad experience, why are you on this thread about homebrew sealant? You kinda sound like a shill. Pretty obvious you don't really mtb and use sealant.
    I am sure you are right. Everybody is right about something. What you are right about you may know or not know.
    I am here because I saw somebody asking if all sealants are sticky and I answered.
    I do not know what “really mtb” mean for you. Maybe you can tell me the secret words you use to be a real mtb’er.
    I used sealants from when it was a new thing (1999) because I was tired of changing or fixing tubes and back then latex was the only thing to use. Latex will dry out and stop closing punctures; still most of the “real users” of sealants use that kind of amateur stuff in their tires. Latex will harm some tyres and some paint types and also some of the types of material rims are made of.
    If you are the little chemist trying to make a new kind of sealant and improve what Stan and the others are doing: Good luck.
    I prefer to ride on the trails in the mountains with thorns and lava and rocks that to try to destroy to my tires and prevent the sealant I have in them to stop sealing the holes I pick up on my way. If you prefer mixing things that could be poisonous and harm the environment that some of us want to enjoy unharmed instead of riding that is your choice.
    Then again, what do I know, I am just an old guy riding my Mojo and the worst is that I am still on 26” so you are right. I must know nothing.
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

  19. #4219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy13 View Post
    "after a while the dried out sealant will be heavier than than the wheel" - sounds like a challenge to me
    Anybody have dried out sealant in tires that weighs over 1450g? How about over 1000g?
    That is right. Most will have worn out the tires long before that could happen. Exaggerate if you want to make your point.
    Still latex dry out, stop sealing holes and when you add new the weight will increase. I use a bit less than 200ml Quadboss sealant and when my tires need to be replaced the stuff is still liquid and will still seal holes. Get latex on your clothes and it will never get off again.
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

  20. #4220
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    That is right. Most will have worn out the tires long before that could happen. Exaggerate if you want to make your point.
    Still latex dry out, stop sealing holes and when you add new the weight will increase. I use a bit less than 200ml Quadboss sealant and when my tires need to be replaced the stuff is still liquid and will still seal holes. Get latex on your clothes and it will never get off again.
    Adding 200ml to a tire is ~6.75 ounces. No wonder you do not notice it drying.

    My home brew of 1 part latex and 3 parts windshield washer fluid seems to work on my road bike, fat bike and all in between. I experience ~ 50% evaporation/drying over 6 months, from a 3.5 oz dose in a 4" fat tire.

  21. #4221
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    I just tried making up a batch of wss (1pt mold builder, 1 pt slime, 3 pts rv pg) and put 4 oz in each tire. I have Nates with fatty strippers. After 3 days the bead is still foaming and seeping out a clear looking liquid. I didn't have any seeping like this with stans. Is this normal?

    The rv pg is 30% PG and 70% water

  22. #4222
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    ^Have you been riding it? Because that can go on forever, with any sealant, if you are just letting it sit. Important to get everything seated properly by riding, especially a new install.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  23. #4223
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^Have you been riding it? Because that can go on forever, with any sealant, if you are just letting it sit. Important to get everything seated properly by riding, especially a new install.
    I hope to get out and ride today. I've just been doing the Stans shake and keeping them inflated.

  24. #4224
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    I've got about 30 miles on it and a couple of weeks and this stuff is still bubbling out of the bead and weeping clearish liquid. I've got to air it up before every ride.

  25. #4225
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    ^What air pressure?
    I ride with the best dogs.




  26. #4226
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    And what mix are you running?

  27. #4227
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    Quote Originally Posted by _crucial_ View Post
    I've got about 30 miles on it and a couple of weeks and this stuff is still bubbling out of the bead and weeping clearish liquid. I've got to air it up before every ride.
    Are you positive the bead is set?

  28. #4228
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    Quote Originally Posted by _crucial_ View Post
    I just tried making up a batch of wss (1pt mold builder, 1 pt slime, 3 pts rv pg) and put 4 oz in each tire. I have Nates with fatty strippers.

    The rv pg is 30% PG and 70% water
    11psi front, 12psi rear (no snow yet and I'm a heavy rider so I run a little higher) and the bead is set all the way around. The tires had never been mounted tubeless and the tires and rim were cleaned prior to mounting. This is the 3rd set of tires I've setup tubeless and the first with home brew. The other two were with Stans and I didn't get any bubbling or weeping of any kind from the bead on those so it was odd to me. I put another 20 miles of singletrack riding on and now I'm getting small puddles of greenish clear liquid on the floor after riding and letting it sit overnight. I can press on the tire near the bead and it will foam and bubble where I'm pressing. The bottle I mixed up isn't separated and the latex is mixed up and not clumping so I wouldn't think it would be a problem in the tire.

  29. #4229
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    ^Try a little more pressure, your beads are obviously not sealing.

    Try some Stans.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  30. #4230
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^Try a little more pressure, your beads are obviously not sealing.

    Try some Stans.
    What he said, although I think the type of sealant used is at least partially irrelevant. The bead shouldn't be leaking as badly as it sounds it is even without sealant. I don't think the bead is set all the way. I'd up the pressure to just under recommended limits of your rim/tire to see if the bead pops in.

  31. #4231
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    They were aired up to 25psi at time of mounting and for two days after I initially set them up tubeless. Air them up and do the stans shake and come back a few hours later and do it again. The bead is popped all the way around. I ordered some other sealant and am going to clean and remount these and see what happens.

    Pic is whats on the floor after sitting for a day or two after riding.
    Best Tubeless Brew?-sealant.jpg
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  32. #4232
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I noticed this just the other night as I was getting to the bottom of my current batch. Had a couple small cornmeal clogs as well as hair clogs (I use hair shed by my now deceased Great Dane) in my applicator bottle.
    Sorry to hear of the loss of your Great Dane. He/she filled many tyres over the years and am grateful for its contribution on this great Forum. I still keep on using a combination of course corn meal plus dog hair (Jack Russel) as chunkulators. I believe the hair provides the matrix for the corn meal to settle and plug big holes. All chunkulators suspended in the mix by a small amount of XG. It plugged really big holes.

  33. #4233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Muller View Post
    Sorry to hear of the loss of your Great Dane. He/she filled many tyres over the years and am grateful for its contribution on this great Forum. I still keep on using a combination of course corn meal plus dog hair (Jack Russel) as chunkulators. I believe the hair provides the matrix for the corn meal to settle and plug big holes. All chunkulators suspended in the mix by a small amount of XG. It plugged really big holes.
    I think the hair works as well. Unfortunately, we now have two rescue Greyhounds and they don't shed for shi|t so I'll be forced to start using my ball shavings at some point in the future... Luckily, the Dane shed like mad so I've got lots. May have an Irish Wolfhound in the future so those hairy beasts have GOT to shed some!

  34. #4234
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    Anyone take a shot at reverse engineering orange seal, or have an opinion on what ingredients may differ between stans and orange seal ?

  35. #4235
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    ^^^It doesn't clump up/booger up like Stan's but leaves more like a smeg/snakeskin layer as it dries out...like more latex/no cornmeal.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  36. #4236
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    Niagara is selling Slime's new STR Premium in 1-gallon form for about $30.

    https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...-gallon-w-pump

    Their picture isn't right, but based on a bit of sleuthing, it's the right stuff. I haven't tried it. I have watched their PR people and Seth poke holes in tires and have it seal instantly, so I bought some. Cost is $0.25/oz, similar to DIY. Stan's is about $0.75. Orange Seal is over $1. Even at regular pricing ($65ish), Slime undercuts everything else.

    I was using TruckerCo, which is about $0.60/oz. It doesn't seal, dries out quickly, and tends to form fluff balls. The inside of my tire looks like dried oatmeal: lumpy and porous. It's also about 60g heavier than it was new and the latex layer doesn't peel off in one piece like Orange Seal. Not impressed.

    Here's to hoping STR lasts a little longer.

  37. #4237
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    Niagara is selling Slime's new STR Premium in 1-gallon form for about $30.

    https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...-gallon-w-pump

    Their picture isn't right, but based on a bit of sleuthing, it's the right stuff. I haven't tried it. I have watched their PR people and Seth poke holes in tires and have it seal instantly, so I bought some. Cost is $0.25/oz, similar to DIY. Stan's is about $0.75. Orange Seal is over $1. Even at regular pricing ($65ish), Slime undercuts everything else.

    I was using TruckerCo, which is about $0.60/oz. It doesn't seal, dries out quickly, and tends to form fluff balls. The inside of my tire looks like dried oatmeal: lumpy and porous. It's also about 60g heavier than it was new and the latex layer doesn't peel off in one piece like Orange Seal. Not impressed.

    Here's to hoping STR lasts a little longer.
    Thanks.

    I was thinking of giving the Trucker Co a shot as I can get it cheap, but will pass.

    That Stan's looks like a good deal. But, Stan's seems to have issues with shelf life - as least they did. That's what got me to go to home-brew years back.


    If I knew shelf life was not going to be an issue I'd buy that large batch.

  38. #4238
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    reading MTBRs promo for new Finish Line sealant. i'm a homebrew guy...how can they make something that never dries up but still seals? Just seems almost impossible.

    looks a little thicker, kind of like old school slime.

    Frostbike 2018: Finish Line’s new sealant that never dries out - Mtbr.com

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s4QmrRrH4U

    Chemists chime in!!!

  39. #4239
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcpunk View Post
    reading MTBRs promo for new Finish Line sealant. i'm a homebrew guy...how can they make something that never dries up but still seals? Just seems almost impossible.

    Frostbike 2018: Finish Line's new sealant that never dries out - Mtbr.com
    You gotta be able to read between the lines, so to speak. When you read a review that claims "this bike climbs like a 25# XC bike and descends like a 200mm DH bike" do you believe it?

    My guess is they are grading on a curve. They claim it lasts the life of the tire. For me on DHF/DHR II DC TR EXO tires at maybe 25 miles a week that's 6 to 9 months. Their claim will never hold true. Some guys will be riding thinner, softer tires and will ride 25 miles a day, 5 days a week and the sealant may well last the life of the tire.

  40. #4240
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    Has anyone figured out what is the new Finish Line sealant? Sounds like the old-school Slimes from the '90s.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  41. #4241
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    Just mixed a batch I cut into two:

    Base:
    32oz water
    32oz PG
    16oz mold builder
    5 oz ammonia

    Mix A:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup crushed water beads
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    Mix B:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    I'll put one in each tire and see if either performs better or worse than the other...

  42. #4242
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Has anyone figured out what is the new Finish Line sealant? Sounds like the old-school Slimes from the '90s.
    Supposedly it doesn't clog valve cores AND it seals holes...

    lol
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  43. #4243
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    The finish line stuff got bad reviews just look it up. No point in trying to make a copy of that. Has anyone figured out how to make orange seal?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  44. #4244
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    I'm sure we've all wondered how well OSS stays preserved...
    I took a cornmeal OSS batch from 2016 off the shelf. Last year I had made a batch with different chunkulators, but I had to keep looking at the unfinished batch - and it was really annoying me!
    I did float enough ammonia on top to provide a barrier and when I mounted and brought them up to pressure the tires sealed just fine. No issues - that's the easy part.

    After one ride the stuff seems to be A-OKAY. I'll check back in after several more rides.

  45. #4245
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Just mixed a batch I cut into two:

    Base:
    32oz water
    32oz PG
    16oz mold builder
    5 oz ammonia

    Mix A:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup crushed water beads
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    Mix B:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    I'll put one in each tire and see if either performs better or worse than the other...
    I would be keenly looking forward to the result of your mix. My earlier experiment with tyre crumbs was a disaster.

  46. #4246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neogen View Post
    I would be keenly looking forward to the result of your mix. My earlier experiment with tyre crumbs was a disaster.
    My last attempt with the rubber crumb was pretty good except that it boogered more heavily than others...

  47. #4247
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Just mixed a batch I cut into two:

    Base:
    32oz water
    32oz PG
    16oz mold builder
    5 oz ammonia

    Mix A:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup crushed water beads
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    Mix B:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    I'll put one in each tire and see if either performs better or worse than the other...
    Hi, tell me please. What is this PG?

  48. #4248
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerJ1us View Post
    Hi, tell me please. What is this PG?
    Propylene Glycol
    https://www.amazon.com/Propylene-Gly...opylene+glycol

    It's used as a substitute for RV Antifreeze which was popularized with WSS.

  49. #4249
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    This should be moved to the wheels and tires forum. 29 components forum makes no sense

  50. #4250
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    Quote Originally Posted by OregonXC View Post
    This should be moved to the wheels and tires forum. 29 components forum makes no sense
    Yeah,,,,it’ll die on the vine quickly here....great point.

  51. #4251
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    It wouldn’t “die on the vine” there. Such an obtuse comment. There are many that would benefit. 29ers aren’t the end all

  52. #4252
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    Quote Originally Posted by OregonXC View Post
    It wouldn’t “die on the vine” there. Such an obtuse comment. There are many that would benefit. 29ers aren’t the end all
    I’ll slow it down for you...it’s been on this board for more than a decade.

  53. #4253
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    Anyone who searched for "tubeless brew" will likely end up here.

    After 10 years there's no need to move it anywhere.

  54. #4254
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    Propylene glycol, aka "vegetable glycerine", is the magic ingredient that allows sealant to stay liquid for longer periods of time. It has some anti-freeze properties but primarily it's a wetting agent and is extracted from crops using a press. In living plants it helps prevent them from becoming dehydrated in the sun and during droughts.

    If you mix it directly with pure latex though the latex will instantly turn to hard rubber, so you add a bit slowly into the solution while stirring as a final ingredient.

    With propylene glycol my homemade brew stays good in the tire for about half a year instead of only three months (typical for Stans). It's expensive stuff but a little bit goes a long way.

    It doesn't seem to hinder the ability to seal a puncture. I put tiny chunks of rubber in my brew made from applying used inner tubes or old tires to a grinding wheel or belt sander.

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...able+glycerine

  55. #4255
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    Propylene Glycol (PG) and Vegetable Glycerine are two different substances. PG is what many use for homebrew sealant. I get mine at Tractor Supply stores for ~$23/gallon, which will last many years. Vegetable Glycerine may work, but I haven't heard of it being used until this recent post.

  56. #4256
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    First tubeless experience

    Hey guys, after finally reading this thread I'm getting ready to go tubeless.

    Big thanks are in order, wadester, big0mike (big time moderator), slocaus, bsieb, eurotrash, thuren and tiGeo (just to name a few) for making this thing possible. I live in Colombia and going tubeless is a big hole in the wallet, almost the same as buying Maxxis WW tubes every two months, so Stan's price, albeit not prohibitive would really negate the benefits of tubeless. Homebrew ftw!

    I was also wondering what happened to the idea of using PVA, boric acid and chitosan? Looks promising BUT I read that too little too late, I had already bought my latex and supplies.

    I've settled on making OSS/BAMFS without ammonia (since it is borderline impossible to get without asking permission to the president) the temperatures I ride in vary from 10° to 30° Celsius so I don't think longevity will suffer although I'll post updates. Any feedback would be appreciated too, I've thought about using lye or sodium bicarbonate but lye does react with aluminum and AlOxide so I've pretty much discarded the idea.

    I'll try to document the process and give updates. Oh and also I'll be using Tesa brand duct tape for my ghetto conversion since we don't have gorilla tape here, has any of you had experience with not using gorilla tape?

    Thank you again and pardon my English, it's not my main language.
    Last edited by dagomez99; 08-13-2018 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Typos... Oh typos

  57. #4257
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    ^Right on Dagomez99, and feel free to substitute what you got on hand. Generic polypro strapping tape works well for me, doesn't leave any residue.

    JVCC TPS-04 Appliance-Grade Tensilized Polypropylene Strapping Tape
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  58. #4258
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    Has anyone figured out the breakout of Orange Seal/what's in it?
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  59. #4259
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    50% off coupon @ Michaels

    Apply to cart

    Choose in store pickup @ checkout

    Liquid Latex for $9.00.

    https://www.michaels.com/castin-craf.../10558726.html

  60. #4260
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    So I can no longer find slime tubeless and tries slime tire sealant as a substitute. Doesn't work as good. Now what's a poor boy to do?

    Any advice on a better replacement?
    I was happily using the 1part latex 1part RV antifreeze 1part slime 2 parts water formula.
    Thanks.

  61. #4261
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    Just ordered Michaels mold builder, Amazon. Another 16-oz for $11.00 product called "Kangaroo liquid latex" popped up. It's in a Stans shaped bottle which means it may not be the thick stuff I'm used to.

    Anyone try this goop yet???

  62. #4262
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlucky82 View Post
    So I can no longer find slime tubeless and tries slime tire sealant as a substitute. Doesn't work as good. Now what's a poor boy to do?

    Any advice on a better replacement?
    I was happily using the 1part latex 1part RV antifreeze 1part slime 2 parts water formula.
    Thanks.
    The original formula I used years ago was what you have listed but with ATV Slime...never used the Slime Tubeless....
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  63. #4263
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    Thanks I just had to thicken it up by adding another part of slime.

  64. #4264
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    I've been using this recipe for the last year or so. (1 part mold builder, 1 part automotive slime, 1 part EG antifreeze, 2 parts water).

    Unfortunately it seems a lot of the time I go to switch tires lately, the stuff kind of de-homogenizes inside the tire and what I end up with is a well-coated latex tire and a pool of thin, green liquid that would fail to seal a hole, and smells a bit like sour beer.

    Anyone else have this experience? It seems lately it only takes two weeks for this to happen.

  65. #4265
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    Ive never deviated from:

    1 part Mold Builer
    1 part Auto Slime
    3 parts RV antifreeze (uses PG not EG).

    In my experience it's very stable and doesn't break down.

  66. #4266
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Ive never deviated from:

    1 part Mold Builer
    1 part Auto Slime
    3 parts RV antifreeze (uses PG not EG).

    In my experience it's very stable and doesn't break down.
    Nevermind - I confirmed it's PG that I use. I wonder what the issue is then... is it the water?

  67. #4267
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    Could be. Way back in this thread when I started mixing my own sealant using WSS recipe there was a note that RV antifreeze was already diluted for use so water could be excluded where-as EG antifreeze needed (IIRC) diluted 50:50 with water.

  68. #4268
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeandEaston View Post
    Is Stan's getting cheap on us? Is glitter expensive? Maybe whatever Stans uses is expensive.

    I have been using this mixture with good, not great results for more than a year. I've had to add to it and clean out the tire several times during that time. It's being used in a commuter specific bike with 1.5" specialized tires. (and also my MTB's) Most recently when I checked it, it appeared the latex was dried out and there was green colored water like in the photo's above. I have not been adding the cheap antifreeze, but will start now.


    1 part latex mold builder
    1 part slime
    2 parts water

    While this formula has sealed many punctures, it does need maintenance to stay alive. I originally read about the antifreeze and did not want to use it for fear it would damage my tires, but this thread has made me see the error of my thoughts. I'll add it next maintenance opportunity.
    Sorry for the reply on a 10 year old post. I can't seem to find if/when you found a resolution and I just posted something similar. Any way to prevent the thin green liquid + dried up latex?

    I can only assume that the PG antifreeze must be the ticket. Maybe I'll try adding a quart to my ~half gallon of current brew. Might have to re-thicken with some more slime.

  69. #4269
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    ^Have you tried adding a half cup of clear ammonia to your mix? Helps keep the latex liquid for longer.
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  70. #4270
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^Have you tried adding a half cup of clear ammonia to your mix? Helps keep the latex liquid for longer.
    Maybe I'll try that instead. The issue doesn't seem to be with the mixture drying out, rather, the latex sticking to the tire and the rest of the mix remaining.

  71. #4271
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    Maybe I'll try that instead. The issue doesn't seem to be with the mixture drying out, rather, the latex sticking to the tire and the rest of the mix remaining.
    You may find that opening the bead and topping off the puddle from time to time will help prevent things from drying out too. Easy peasy, bead goes right back with a floor pump. As the sidewalls wear they become more porous too, another way for mix to dry out in the tire.
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  72. #4272
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    Maybe I'll try that instead. The issue doesn't seem to be with the mixture drying out, rather, the latex sticking to the tire and the rest of the mix remaining.
    The thing is, it's the amónia that keeps the pH above 8 and prevent the latex from starting polymerization, it doesn't matter it is dry or not, well, if is dry it means you also don't have ammonia anymore , anyway if the ammonia dissolved in the solution evaporate the latex will start polymerization. So try adding a few ml of ammonia from time to time, and see if it helps.

  73. #4273
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    Fully DIY tubeless.

    Quote Originally Posted by dagomez99 View Post
    Hey guys, after finally reading this thread I'm getting ready to go tubeless.

    [...]

    I'll try to document the process and give updates.
    So, here's the process.
    I bought my bike used, so i don't know what has been done to it but afaik it's as stock as it came from the factory. Here's how my rims were, they had some sort of buildup in some parts, and the paint was flaking, I used a bit of scotch brite to clean as good as i could with soapy water and then used iso alcohol to give everything a final wipe.

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20180812_180355.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20180812_180447.jpg

    Then the tape ghetto conversion (two loops of tape)

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20180812_204529.jpg

    And the valve hole.

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20180812_190159.jpg

    At this point, I put the tubes back in and pumped them to 50 psi overnight, and then rode them at 40 for another week (or so i was planning, but you know how life goes, they were there for ~2 months but ridden at normal pressures).
    Here's what they looked like when I mounted the new valves. Maybe all that time was the key to success because air never leaked from spoke holes when i finally mounted the tires.

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20190107_113032.jpg

    So, front tire went in no problem, sealant worked just as i expected it to work, i even tested it with a 20 ga hypodermic needle (i don't get those monstrous goatheads you post here) and it sealed within seconds.
    Back tire... well there were two problems, after the bike was bought I replaced the tube after a pinch flat and noticed there was a 29er tube in a 27.5 wheelset, and the tire bead got a little bit stretched (same tires front and back and i could tell the back one was noticeably looser) so popping the beads was a little bit harder. Well, no, that's a bit of an understatement actually, I couldn't pop the beads no matter what i did. Upon closer inspection I found this.

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20190107_111020.jpg

    My effing tire had a sidewall cut it was not big maybe half a cm but enough for letting all the air bursting into the tire escape, put on a tube patch and tried again. Since I don't have an air compressor, was using the DIY tire booster I found online. looked like this, that's 5 mm poly tubing so... sidewall gash was about the same diameter as the tubing.

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20190110_082232.jpg

    I was playing it safe, pumping the bottle to 60 psi before blasting the tire but since this tire was looser I had to pump it to 80 and finally beads popped into place.

    This is the patched sidewall from outside (i was kind of worried but i figured it held pressures up to 60 when I put back the tubes so 26 wouldn't be a problem)

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20190110_082418.jpg

    After that i just sloshed, shook, spun the tires for a good 10 minutes each. Cleaned the spilled sealant and waited overnight. The next morning front was down to 14 and back to 8 psi. Pumped them to 28, and went for a ride. No problems. i was testing the reliability of the tires, putting them through progressively harsher terrain every time. They held even on a 100+ staircase.

    That was a week ago, and since then the tires have not noticeably lost much pressure whatsoever; obviously gonna check pressure before every ride but for the time being I call this a success! Fully DIY tubeless.

  74. #4274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    The thing is, it's the amónia that keeps the pH above 8 and prevent the latex from starting polymerization, it doesn't matter it is dry or not, well, if is dry it means you also don't have ammonia anymore , anyway if the ammonia dissolved in the solution evaporate the latex will start polymerization. So try adding a few ml of ammonia from time to time, and see if it helps.
    Using CO2 cartridges will exacerbate this problem as well. CO2 and the water in the tubeless brew combine and are acidic, neutralizing the ammonia, solidifying your liquid latex. I once used the CO2 tank from my keg fridge to seat a fatbike tire as that was the only source of compressed gas I had. The next day, the latex was completely solid, and all that was left was watery muck.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  75. #4275
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    So if one was to make a crossbreed of WSS and OSS and use Slime would you substitute PG for RV Antifreeze? I was just thinking of something new to try. WSS is great, most of my versions of OSS have been great, but I was thinking about an eco-friendly version of WSS without the antifreeze... just for shits and giggles...

  76. #4276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neogen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Just mixed a batch I cut into two:

    Base:
    32oz water
    32oz PG
    16oz mold builder
    5 oz ammonia

    Mix A:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup crushed water beads
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    Mix B:
    1/2 cup rubber crumb
    1/4 cup corn meal
    1 tsp xantham gum

    I'll put one in each tire and see if either performs better or worse than the other...
    I would be keenly looking forward to the result of your mix. My earlier experiment with tyre crumbs was a disaster.
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    My last attempt with the rubber crumb was pretty good except that it boogered more heavily than others...
    No discernible difference in the two mixes. I will note that I had very little boogering with these mixes leading me to believe that the previous high-booger-rate I experienced with rubber crumb was indeed caused by mixing it in an aluminum paint can (someone pointed out that it causes a reaction with the chemicals).

    Haven't decided if I'm gonna try an eco-friendly WSS (my post above) or stick with one of these two mixes. I've got plenty of beads left but if they absorb and need a steady supply of water to keep swollen they may be a cause of early drying out? Just a theory. I don't recall having one tire need a refill very much before the other.

  77. #4277
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    ^For updated WSS use food grade PG (propylene glycol, a common food additive) instead of antifreeze. Tractor Supply carries it.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  78. #4278
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^For updated WSS use food grade PG (propylene glycol, a common food additive) instead of antifreeze. Tractor Supply carries it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    So going all the way back to page one (this may or may not be a "current" WSS) I'd go:
    1 Mold Builder
    1 Slime
    1 PG
    2 Water

    That's kinda what I was thinking although PG is thicker than antifreeze...

  79. #4279
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So going all the way back to page one (this may or may not be a "current" WSS) I'd go:
    1 Mold Builder
    1 Slime
    1 PG
    2 Water

    That's kinda what I was thinking although PG is thicker than antifreeze...
    That's it... I include 1/2 cup of clear ammonia. PG is about the same viscosity as antifreeze.
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  80. #4280
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So going all the way back to page one (this may or may not be a "current" WSS) I'd go:
    1 Mold Builder
    1 Slime
    1 PG
    2 Water

    That's kinda what I was thinking although PG is thicker than antifreeze...

    Far as I can tell one of the main ingredients in Slime is PG.

    Since I can often find the Slime Pro (has nice chunks) on sale at the local Wally World I usually use that as a base.

    To the Slime Pro I add latex and water and just a bit of PG (as I'm convinced there's likely a lot of PG in it already), and a few tablespoons of rinsed, coarse cornmeal. And some ammonia.

    Been using that mix for years now. And it's always worked out great.

  81. #4281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Far as I can tell one of the main ingredients in Slime is PG.

    Since I can often find the Slime Pro (has nice chunks) on sale at the local Wally World I usually use that as a base.

    To the Slime Pro I add latex and water and just a bit of PG (as I'm convinced there's likely a lot of PG in it already), and a few tablespoons of rinsed, coarse cornmeal. And some ammonia.
    I thought Slime Pro was their latex-based sealant like Stan's?

  82. #4282
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I thought Slime Pro was their latex-based sealant like Stan's?
    Hmmm.

    You maybe right...

    Not at home to check the jug... and when I look on their site I'm quite certain I'm using just the "Slime for Tubes", not the Pro.

    https://shop.slime.com/collections/t...nt=45263886088

    I've got this at Wally World for $19.99

  83. #4283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Not at home to check the jug... and when I look on their site I'm quite certain I'm using just the "Slime for Tubes", not the Pro.

    https://shop.slime.com/collections/t...nt=45263886088

    I've got this at Wally World for $19.99
    $20 for a gallon? That's a good deal. Not sure if it's worth going into a Walmart, though

  84. #4284
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    Berryman Tire Seal-r has worked well for me. Uses no latex and does not dry out. $30/gal at Tractor Supply.

  85. #4285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heist30 View Post
    Berryman Tire Seal-r has worked well for me. Uses no latex and does not dry out. $30/gal at Tractor Supply.
    For those riding in the cold, it's only rated to -10 F (-23 C).
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  86. #4286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heist30 View Post
    Berryman Tire Seal-r has worked well for me. Uses no latex and does not dry out. $30/gal at Tractor Supply.
    Berryman = Orange seal? Same products and properties but rebranded for a higher margin market? I worked for a company that did this. Same goop, different bottle. $3, $10, $30 for the same stuff.
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  87. #4287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Berryman = Orange seal? Same products and properties but rebranded for a higher margin market? I worked for a company that did this. Same goop, different bottle. $3, $10, $30 for the same stuff.
    Don’t think it’s the same product since Berryman uses fibers and Orange uses latex.

  88. #4288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    For those riding in the cold, it's only rated to -10 F (-23 C).
    “Only”? People ride when it’s colder than -10f?

  89. #4289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    “Only”? People ride when it’s colder than -10f?
    You betcha!

  90. #4290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    “Only”? People ride when it’s colder than -10f?
    F-yeah I do.

    I have to think though that a latex/PG mix with water is going to be able to work colder, like -20 to -40, theoretically a 50/50 water mix is good for -40, right? -20 is about the coldest I ride, but no one seems to have problems with this with most people running Stans.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  91. #4291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    For those riding in the cold, it's only rated to -10 F (-23 C).
    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    “Only”? People ride when it’s colder than -10f?
    That only applies to storage. If your bike is kept in a house, the tires and sealant will stay warm enough to ride even if it is below zero.

  92. #4292
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    Have we discussed the affects of Ammonia on tires yet? If so, I missed it and would like a recap of y'alls thoughts.

    I was tire shopping the other day and found this little quote from the german sites.

    Maxxis strongly advises against the use of ammonia-containing sealant. Ammonia has been shown to attack the carcass and, depending on the amount used, can weaken up to 30% after a few months.
    Maxxis recommends using the Tire Plasma tire sealant .
    Last edited by Stopbreakindown; 01-15-2019 at 10:21 AM.

  93. #4293
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    It has been discussed several times but mostly theoretically. I guess a lot depends on how long your tires typically last and how much ammonia you put in them.

    The WSS formula I use has 1/8 part of clear household ammonia in 5 parts of other ingredients, so not a very high concentration. I have run Maxxis tires for ~5 years on some wheels and have not had this problem to date.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  94. #4294
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    hi, please tell me Did you have experience using liquid latex instead mold builder?

  95. #4295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    “Only”? People ride when it’s colder than -10f?
    Well, I don't. I'm a wuss now.
    My cutoff is -15 C; -20 C only if sunny and no wind.
    Go back three decades and it was -25 C. Still a little wussy.

    In this year's ITI, first night out the participants had a drop to -25 F (call it -31 C). Further along the course (on the sea ice or across to Nome, or higher up (like Finger Lake to Rohn), it can get colder. -40 F/C is not uncommon along the course, -50 F (-45 C) can happen, and that's before applying the wind chill of 40 mph winds, or more. Anywhere can become bad, but the sea ice crossing from Little Mountain to Koyuk can be chilly and the Topcock to Safety leg is known for trouble.

    This year, warm temperatures are the real problem for poor trail conditions
    https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/id...l#post14008416
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  96. #4296
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerJ1us View Post
    hi, please tell me Did you have experience using liquid latex instead mold builder?
    I only use liquid latex. No problem whatsoever.

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  97. #4297
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerJ1us View Post
    hi, please tell me Did you have experience using liquid latex instead mold builder?
    They are both the same thing, so it doesn't matter.
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  98. #4298
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    It has been discussed several times but mostly theoretically. I guess a lot depends on how long your tires typically last and how much ammonia you put in them.

    The WSS formula I use has 1/8 part of clear household ammonia in 5 parts of other ingredients, so not a very high concentration. I have run Maxxis tires for ~5 years on some wheels and have not had this problem to date.
    Hmmm.

    So what's the potential drawback to using even _less_ ammonia? Latex more likely to congeal?

    When I mix up a gallon of sealant I've only used maybe 2 or 3 tablespoon. About 30cc or so. I've not had any issues.

  99. #4299
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    Tubless Ninny with a question-

    Question first then back ground in case it's relevant;

    Six months in with tubeless and losing air.... I'm told to get a 'shot' or small portion of Stan's to add through the valve after removing the core. *Please advise by what exactly it's called or the size of bottle I need. Any tips related to that process very appreciated also.

    My bike has been tubeless for about 6 months and all I know about that is the guy who set it up this way. I rode pretty regularly up to about two months ago so the bike sat for a while.
    Just this week, I'm experiencing my first loss of air and thus far, it seems the front won't hold it very long. Sunday, we biked about 2 hours and it felt soft part way through the ride. By 3/4 of that ride, I added air to get back to the car. I pumped it up at home and spun the wheel some as suggested by him (better yet ride it some) but that, I did not. Still not holding air.

    I heard all the great benefits and believed most of what I'd heard but it just didn't grab me by the shirt tails and I was happily pushing pedal, not feeling lost out.
    Eventually, a friend who'd been harping on and on about converting my bike over to tubeless got to me and I felt I'd hurt his feeling arguing otherwise. Beers and music later, it was done. This was likely 6 months ago. It all worked well, held up fine and I barely had to add air in that time. I was more impressed by the job he did than tubeless itself. I thought had read even the best of situations can still mean a bit of TLC or potential for being finicky. Maybe ?

    Anyways--- As you might guess, I didn't go to school on tubeless conversion, didn't really get to know the process, or doctor up the ingredients or kit involved etc… Most of my reasoning for being too lazy about going that route prior was to keep biking simple and fun. I'm not really a 'wrench' and stick to the basics and minimums of caring for the bike and keeping it rolling healthy.

    I know John will fix me up if needed but I want to follow his advice and start to learn as I go on this tubeless adventure. The benefits make sense and as long as it doesn't outweigh itself by being more problematic than it's worth (in my world), I'll stick with it and learn more in time.
    I'll admit I appreciate those handy with bike repairs, big tear downs or bike builds, buying special groceries to whip up homemade chain lube etc.... it's just a little bit Deep Woods for me and as per time available at present.

    Thanks in advance for anything representing simple advice, steps and the right stuff to purchase.

    ~b
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  100. #4300
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    Any tubeless sealant will do (Stan’s, orange, etc), I would go ahead and buy the smallest bottle the shop has if you just want to top it off. Then you need a syringe to squirt it into the valve stem (I got some on amazon). Don’t be afraid, after you do it one time you see how easy it is and will be confident moving forward. In my experience 6mo is about right for topping off sealant especially if you ride a lot.


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  101. #4301
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    Question first then back ground in case it's relevant;

    Six months in with tubeless and losing air.... I'm told to get a 'shot' or small portion of Stan's to add through the valve after removing the core. *Please advise by what exactly it's called or the size of bottle I need. Any tips related to that process very appreciated also.

    My bike has been tubeless for about 6 months and all I know about that is the guy who set it up this way. I rode pretty regularly up to about two months ago so the bike sat for a while.
    Just this week, I'm experiencing my first loss of air and thus far, it seems the front won't hold it very long. Sunday, we biked about 2 hours and it felt soft part way through the ride. By 3/4 of that ride, I added air to get back to the car. I pumped it up at home and spun the wheel some as suggested by him (better yet ride it some) but that, I did not. Still not holding air.

    I heard all the great benefits and believed most of what I'd heard but it just didn't grab me by the shirt tails and I was happily pushing pedal, not feeling lost out.
    Eventually, a friend who'd been harping on and on about converting my bike over to tubeless got to me and I felt I'd hurt his feeling arguing otherwise. Beers and music later, it was done. This was likely 6 months ago. It all worked well, held up fine and I barely had to add air in that time. I was more impressed by the job he did than tubeless itself. I thought had read even the best of situations can still mean a bit of TLC or potential for being finicky. Maybe ?

    Anyways--- As you might guess, I didn't go to school on tubeless conversion, didn't really get to know the process, or doctor up the ingredients or kit involved etc… Most of my reasoning for being too lazy about going that route prior was to keep biking simple and fun. I'm not really a 'wrench' and stick to the basics and minimums of caring for the bike and keeping it rolling healthy.

    I know John will fix me up if needed but I want to follow his advice and start to learn as I go on this tubeless adventure. The benefits make sense and as long as it doesn't outweigh itself by being more problematic than it's worth (in my world), I'll stick with it and learn more in time.
    I'll admit I appreciate those handy with bike repairs, big tear downs or bike builds, buying special groceries to whip up homemade chain lube etc.... it's just a little bit Deep Woods for me and as per time available at present.

    Thanks in advance for anything representing simple advice, steps and the right stuff to purchase.

    ~b
    A lack of sealant shouldn't cause air to escape that fast. You might want to pump up the tire and check to see where air is leaking. A spray bottle filled with water and a few drops of dish detergent works pretty well.

    You do need to occasionally add more sealant, especially when it gets warm out. You can squirt a 2 oz bottle of Stan's through your valve, no problem. Then you can keep refilling it from a bigger bottle or homebrew whenever the need arises.

  102. #4302
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    I check sealant levels once a month, by pulling the bead and looking in there. You should have about a 6" long puddle in the tire. It's easy to top off the puddle and put the bead back, a floor pump works fine. If you do this you won't have problems on the trail. I live in a desert environment so the sealant dries out faster than some other places.
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  103. #4303
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    Thank you all for the information, it's all new to me and I'm seeing this seems pretty straight forward. I'll update with result's soon.

    - bach
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  104. #4304
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    Update on my front tire loss of air-

    I pumped it up yesterday to try the leak test in water and right away, the tire was spewing air on to my wrist. I spotted a sidewall tear that is vertical rather that lateral along the sidewall as I might have expected. It's perfectly straight and a slight tear maybe a half inch or so.

    I'll use a partly used Nobby Nic I have lying around and get some schooling of the tubeless process this time via the friend that set it up the first time. Meantime, I've got my other bikes that are ready to roll so I'm not hostage to this fix immediately.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  105. #4305
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    I tried the BAMFS 2.0. Put some in a tire in September I believe. Only got a handful of rides on it before storing the bike for the winter.
    Changed the tire a few weeks ago, and there was still liquid in the tire. It was very similar to Stan's, but had a mildly oily consistency. It was a bit boogered in areas, but held up better than expected.
    Very nice!

    I used this formula:

    2.3 parts distilled water
    2 parts propylene glycol
    1 part latex mold builder
    Cornmeal - I used about a tablespoon for about 8oz of sealant, I think. Probably a bit heavy, but worked fine.

    I also used a tablespoon of ammonia.

    The oily consistency seemed to be from the RV antifreeze. Perhaps straight PG wouldn't be oily? Wasn't an issue really.

    I just used the rest of my latex and used the formula above but used about 2/3 the cornmeal, and about a tablespoon of ammonia per 10oz sealant.
    This was a big batch: about 85oz.

    Nice work, folks!

    Bob

  106. #4306
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    A quick question I haven't seen a mentioned. For those that use pepper, or cornmeal, or xantham gum have any of you;

    a) used a syringe to add fluid through a presta valve stem instead of breaking the bead and adding sealant directly?

    and

    b) have you had issues with the chunks clogging up your syringe?

  107. #4307
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    90% of time I just use a 60 ml syringe with my home mix through the presta valve with the core removed.

    The mix I use is about the same as pedalinbob has outlined above. I am also very heavy on the cornmeal like he is and I have never had an issue using the large syringe with my mix. I did have pepper clump up into boogers in the past so ever since it has been cornmeal.

  108. #4308
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    I've had some cloggage using a syringe - you can avoid it by technique.

    I pull the plunger out and fill the body, then replace the plunger slow/careful. Then I invert the syringe and let the chunkulate start to head for the bottom again - then inject while everything is in transit.

    If you let all the chunks congregate in the outlet of the syringe, then try to inject - that's when you will probably clog the valve stem.

    I was injecting a mix with slime and added rubber chunk - very likely to clog.

    On that note, I'm giving up on the rubber chunk. I made one batch with them, had serious booger issues. Made a second batch, but soaked the rubber chunks in ammonia water overnight trying to "passivate" them - but only helped a wee bit. Guess I'll be on the cornmeal bandwagon now.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  109. #4309
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    If you let all the chunks congregate in the outlet of the syringe, then try to inject - that's when you will probably clog the valve stem.
    THEORETICALLY, if you use xantham gum it keeps the chunks in suspension so they don't settle in the syringe...

  110. #4310
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJDude View Post
    A quick question I haven't seen a mentioned. For those that use pepper, or cornmeal, or xantham gum have any of you;

    a) used a syringe to add fluid through a presta valve stem instead of breaking the bead and adding sealant directly?

    and

    b) have you had issues with the chunks clogging up your syringe?
    Use 60 ml syringe all the time. I do shake the sealant bottle well before pouring into the syringe. After some use ~5 time I discard the syringe and use a new one.

  111. #4311
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    I used to not want to break the bead and got plugged up stems and syringes all the time. Then I tried it and it's not big deal. It's a little tougher with CushCore in now but better than plugged up stems that won't let air in or out or both.

    I got a few of these condiment squeeze bottles. You can chop off as little or as much of the tip to allow your sealant and chunkulators to flow through easily. With this tip I just need to get a tire level in and pop off the smallest portion of the tire.

    They come in different sizes as well. I've found the 8oz is what I use with my Home Brew. My brew is thicker than most everyone else so on a brand new tire I need 8oz minimum to seal and have some left over for punctures. When I refill I put in 4oz. It's more than everyone else but my Sentinel with Cush Core is approaching 36# so sealant weight is the least of my worries. Well... my sealant may be 2# of that 36#

  112. #4312
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    I agree with big0Mike about using condiment squeeze bottles. They are very cheap and they work as good or better than a syringe. They are also easier to clean.

  113. #4313
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    I just break the bead and pour it in right out of the jug.

    You want to maintain about a 6" long puddle.
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  114. #4314
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    Regarding mold latex - early in this home brew thread, read remarks about condiment bottles. I had some 2 oz Wheels Manufacturing bearing bottles. With a few inches of 5/16 tubing it's easy to fill a presta valve with core out, or bottle nozzle straight into a schrader.

    Here is another use - mold latex can be used to help seat a tire. It dries quickly and its stickiness attracts it to the bead and locks in the rush of air. A paintbrush made a mess - but the 2 oz bottle nozzle is perfect for applying a line around the bead. The tire linked right up. This is all non UST/TLR, but on a 21 mm ID rim and tire with reasonable thread count and sidewall.

  115. #4315
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    Just a general touching base post - still using my BAMFS which is the Stan's clone with great success (Borat voice). High-performing and lasts about as long as Stan's ever did, shorter life in the warmer mos., longer in the cooler. Only small boogers from time to time. Love this stuff.

    1 part liquid latex "Mold Builder" brand - Amazon
    2 parts distilled water
    2 parts propylene glycol -Amazon or Tractor Supply
    0.3 parts ammonia - Ace Hardware "Professional/Janitorial Strength"
    1 tbs (or more depending on application) cooked cornmeal - Kroger

    Used to also throw a pinch of xanthan gum powder in there but I don't think it does anything.

    No need to change what works for me.
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  116. #4316
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Just a general touching base post - still using my BAMFS which is the Stan's clone with great success (Borat voice). High-performing and lasts about as long as Stan's ever did, shorter life in the warmer mos., longer in the cooler. Only small boogers from time to time. Love this stuff.

    1 part liquid latex "Mold Builder" brand - Amazon
    2 parts distilled water
    2 parts propylene glycol -Amazon or Tractor Supply
    0.3 parts ammonia - Ace Hardware "Professional/Janitorial Strength"
    1 tbs (or more depending on application) cooked cornmeal - Kroger

    Used to also throw a pinch of xanthan gum powder in there but I don't think it does anything.

    No need to change what works for me.
    I might try this next. Do you actually cook the cornmeal? How essential is the distilled water?

  117. #4317
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ckeyeus View Post
    I might try this next. Do you actually cook the cornmeal? How essential is the distilled water?
    Here's what I use. Tap water is prob fine but a gal of distilled water is like a dollar so why not use it...less impurities.

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  118. #4318
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    ...
    1 part liquid latex "Mold Builder" brand - Amazon
    2 parts distilled water
    2 parts propylene glycol -Amazon or Tractor Supply
    0.3 parts ammonia - Ace Hardware "Professional/Janitorial Strength"
    1 tbs (or more depending on application) cooked cornmeal - Kroger..
    All quantities are proportional except the last, which is absolute. How much total liquid do you wind up with to put that 1 tbs into? 1qt, 1 gal, 55 gal?
    Do the math.

  119. #4319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    All quantities are proportional except the last, which is absolute. How much total liquid do you wind up with to put that 1 tbs into? 1qt, 1 gal, 55 gal?
    Sorry should have mentioned it. 1 part is a Stan's red scooper.

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  120. #4320
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    Got it. Thanks.
    Do the math.

  121. #4321
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Here's what I use.
    Same stuff I use. But I'm confused as well on "cooked?" It's something you put on meat to cook it with a texture. Do you actually do anything with the corn meal before adding it to the BAMFS?

  122. #4322
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    ppl is there anything can be used instead of ammonia?
    using it with amonia but just want to get rid of it.

  123. #4323
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    I've never added any extra ammonia at all and haven't had any issues. There is already ammonia in the mold builder latex.

  124. #4324
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    Quote Originally Posted by cka3o4nuk View Post
    ppl is there anything can be used instead of ammonia?
    using it with amonia but just want to get rid of it.
    It's all about pH. You could replace the ammonia, but only with something of a similar pH.

    Good luck with that:

    pH of Common Bases
    Many common cleaners are basic. Usually, these chemicals have very high pH. Blood is close to neutral, but is slightly basic.

    7.0 to 10 - Shampoo
    7.4 - Human Blood
    7.4 - Human Tears
    7.8 - Egg
    around 8 - Seawater
    8.3 - Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate)
    around 9 - Toothpaste
    10.5 - Milk of Magnesia
    11.0 - Ammonia
    11.5 to 14 - Hair Straightening Chemicals
    12.4 - Lime (Calcium Hydroxide)
    13.0 - Lye
    14.0 - Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH)
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  125. #4325
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    The reason why i seek for alternative to ammonit is that it ruins tires(
    mabe hydroxide calcium will work
    a lot of ph up for plants are on it

  126. #4326
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    Quote Originally Posted by cka3o4nuk View Post
    The reason why i seek for alternative to ammonit is that it ruins tires(mabe hydroxide calcium will work)
    Odd that this page has been rolling for 11 years and there hasn't been a barrage of people asking, "why are my tires falling apart quicker with [sealant of choice] in them?"

    I likely put the LEAST amount of miles on my tires of anyone in this thread and that I know and I've never noticed the ammonia in my Home Brew causing the tire to degrade faster.

    I think you are worrying about a non-issue.

  127. #4327
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    Ugh I hate tubes.

    I've been running home brew sealant in a set of tubes on my old townie bike.

    Recently I got a pinch flat riding the old bike far harder on trails than I should have.

    Despite gobs of wet sealant, I couldn't get it to seal.

    I'm not too particular these days about my mix - I like it wet.

    I would assume if its not sealing, its because I don't have enough ammonia? Or too much water not enough latex?
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  128. #4328
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Ugh I hate tubes.

    I've been running home brew sealant in a set of tubes on my old townie bike.

    Recently I got a pinch flat riding the old bike far harder on trails than I should have.

    Despite gobs of wet sealant, I couldn't get it to seal.

    I'm not too particular these days about my mix - I like it wet.

    I would assume if its not sealing, its because I don't have enough ammonia? Or too much water not enough latex?
    Or it's a gash/slice or too big.
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  129. #4329
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    My experience is that sealant does not work at all in thin innertubes. I know it works in thick tubes such as "thorn proof" ones.

    But a big hole will be the end. Even back when I was running sealant/thorn proofs - about once a year I would hit something (like a complete mesquite branch covered in thorns!) that would cause the tire to go fully flat right then. Time to pull everything apart, spend 1/2 hour or so pulling aaaaaalllllll the thorns that had accumulated in the tire out so I could swap in my skinny little spare tube and make it home.

    When I would examine the old thick tube, it would have fibers sticking out of all the holes that had sealed, but thin tubes don't seem to be enough to get the sealing parts to stick. I'd always find all the carrier fluid that had leaked out between the tire and tube.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  130. #4330
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    Latex coagulating and clumping early?

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20190825_152659.jpg

    This has been happening to my homebrew often lately. This is just over a week since I last cleaned out the tire and replaced with fresh sealant where the same thing had happened. I noticed it because the wheel is out of balance and actually can be felt easily above 20 on pavement.

    When I open the tire it looks like this, and a very thin green liquid with no latex in it pooled at the bottom.. smells sour kind of like beer that sat in the sun.

    I tried adding more ammonia to the mixture to prevent, but it hasn't helped. This is about 8-10 days, where the tires never sat more than 24 hours without a ride...

    The latex that's formed is close to half inch thick and is like a putty consistency, but difficult to peel off.

    Anyone ever have this issue with home brew?

  131. #4331
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    I have never had a solid puddle like that unless the wheel/tire sat for an extended period of time unused. 8-10 days seems really unusual to me. Was this a new batch? New mix for you? or a batch sitting for a long period in it's container?

  132. #4332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy13 View Post
    I have never had a solid puddle like that unless the wheel/tire sat for an extended period of time unused. 8-10 days seems really unusual to me. Was this a new batch? New mix for you? or a batch sitting for a long period in it's container?

    A fairly new brew. The brew itself is the green container in the background of the pic. I think the real issue here is that I used 'liquid latex' from amazon. One of the 7$/pint varieties in the white containers. While that stuff seals great, it seems to like to separate itself from the other ingredients and then settle and partially solidify... that's my theory anyways.

  133. #4333
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    You gotta use enough ammonia to keep the latex from congealing. If you use CO2, its acidity will neutralize the ammonia to a degree and has the potential to cause the latex to congeal in the tire.
    Do the math.

  134. #4334
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrduford View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20190825_152659.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	260.8 KB 
ID:	1274195

    This has been happening to my homebrew often lately. This is just over a week since I last cleaned out the tire and replaced with fresh sealant where the same thing had happened. I noticed it because the wheel is out of balance and actually can be felt easily above 20 on pavement.

    When I open the tire it looks like this, and a very thin green liquid with no latex in it pooled at the bottom.. smells sour kind of like beer that sat in the sun.

    I tried adding more ammonia to the mixture to prevent, but it hasn't helped. This is about 8-10 days, where the tires never sat more than 24 hours without a ride...

    The latex that's formed is close to half inch thick and is like a putty consistency, but difficult to peel off.

    Anyone ever have this issue with home brew?
    I had the same thing happen recently. I had to ship off my main rear wheel to get relaced and was using a back-up wheel that I set up right before a trip to NC. Inevitably, I got a puncture that my sealant wouldn't seal. When I went to install a tube, I saw that same blob of latex.

    My sealant has been working fine until recently. When I pulled off my tire to ship in my one wheel, I found balls of latex rolling around inside and some clear liquid. I'm thinking maybe it's just old. It looks fine in the container, not separated or anything.

  135. #4335
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    ^^^ did you use CO2 by any chance?
    Do the math.

  136. #4336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^^^ did you use CO2 by any chance?
    Nope. I've never used CO2.

  137. #4337
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Just a general touching base post - still using my BAMFS which is the Stan's clone with great success (Borat voice). High-performing and lasts about as long as Stan's ever did, shorter life in the warmer mos., longer in the cooler. Only small boogers from time to time. Love this stuff.

    1 part liquid latex "Mold Builder" brand - Amazon
    2 parts distilled water
    2 parts propylene glycol -Amazon or Tractor Supply
    0.3 parts ammonia - Ace Hardware "Professional/Janitorial Strength"
    1 tbs (or more depending on application) cooked cornmeal - Kroger

    Used to also throw a pinch of xanthan gum powder in there but I don't think it does anything.

    No need to change what works for me.
    I need to whip up a new batch of sealant, and I'm considering this recipe. Just want to check the ratio for the cornmeal. Are you considering 1 part Mold Builder as the whole container? I'm assuming the amount of cornmeal can be pretty fluid, but a bit of a reference would be helpful.

  138. #4338
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ckeyeus View Post
    I need to whip up a new batch of sealant, and I'm considering this recipe. Just want to check the ratio for the cornmeal. Are you considering 1 part Mold Builder as the whole container? I'm assuming the amount of cornmeal can be pretty fluid, but a bit of a reference would be helpful.
    Parts is parts, as the old commercial said. If you take the tub of mold builder as 1 part - all the other "parts" will be based on that 16oz amount.

    My old recipe, I would indeed use the latex tub as the "part" - and use the tub as a measurement for all the other liquids (which also helped rinse all the latex out).

    Enjoy. YMMV.

    OOPS! I see your dilemma - cornmeal is not listed as a "part". Have to look up some older TiGeo comments to find out for sure, but chunkulant is not a critical component, whereas the ratio of latex/water/PG is a bit critical - but not outrageously so.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  139. #4339
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Just a general touching base post - still using my BAMFS which is the Stan's clone with great success (Borat voice). High-performing and lasts about as long as Stan's ever did, shorter life in the warmer mos., longer in the cooler. Only small boogers from time to time. Love this stuff.

    1 part liquid latex "Mold Builder" brand - Amazon
    2 parts distilled water
    2 parts propylene glycol -Amazon or Tractor Supply
    0.3 parts ammonia - Ace Hardware "Professional/Janitorial Strength"
    1 tbs (or more depending on application) cooked cornmeal - Kroger

    Used to also throw a pinch of xanthan gum powder in there but I don't think it does anything.

    No need to change what works for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    All quantities are proportional except the last, which is absolute. How much total liquid do you wind up with to put that 1 tbs into? 1qt, 1 gal, 55 gal?
    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Sorry should have mentioned it. 1 part is a Stan's red scooper.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Here you go.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  140. #4340
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Here you go.
    Thanks for digging that up. So if a scoop is about 60 mL, there'd be roughly 8 T of corn meal if treating the Mold Builder as 1 part.

    I might mix up a big batch without the corn meal and add as I go. It just seems like too much of the corn meal would settle and cake at the bottom in a big batch.

  141. #4341
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    So I'm almost ready to embark on my first home-brew sealant experiment after many year's of Stan's use, and have a couple of questions. I've got 16 oz of Costin Craft Mold Builder, a quart of Slime Tire Sealant for mowers/ATVs, a gallon of RV propylene glycol based anti-freeze, and some regular or polenta corn meal. Based on advice from a couple of my riding buddies who have mixed their own stuff, I was planning to mix all 16 oz of the mold builder, 16 oz of the Slime, 48 oz of the anti-freeze, and a few oz of cornmeal. Since the anti-freeze is pre-mixed with water, do I need to add any more water? Do I need to add any ammonia (the mold builder lists ammonia an ingredient). I do occasionally use CO2 to re-inflate tires in the field. Am I on the right track? Any additional tips would be appreciated.

  142. #4342
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    Going to start with:
    Quote Originally Posted by bde1024 View Post
    . a gallon of RV propylene glycol based anti-freeze... Since the anti-freeze is pre-mixed with water, do I need to add any more water? ...
    What's the ratio of water to PG of that anti-freeze. And was it made with distilled water. What other additives are in it.

    Most will mix their brew with distilled water and PG, so they know there are no other chemicals in there.

    The most common ratio of dw:PG is 1:1, like the WSS V3 mix of 16 oz to 16 oz.
    BAMFS V2.0 was 2:2.3, but V3.0 went to 2:2 (1:1).
    Steve_S was 1.6:1.2. Thuren 2.25: 1.75.

    The TiGeo recipie that Wadster quotes just above, is the OSS (Open Source Sealant) BAMFS v3.0.
    1 part Stand Red Scoup is ~ two oz.

    Quote Originally Posted by bde1024 View Post
    ... Do I need to add any ammonia (the mold builder lists ammonia an ingredient)...
    Original BAMFS used Slime ATV, no ammonia; BAMFS v3.0 uses no Slime, but has ammonia.

    WSS V3 used Slime & ammonia.
    I have WWS V3 recorded as 16 oz each of distilled/RO water, PG, Slime tubeless, latex mold builder, with 8 oz of ammonia. Add 8 oz of rubber crumb and a handful of dryer lint.

    So it sounds like your buddies were mixing something similar to WSS V1, but with cornmeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by bde1024 View Post
    ... I do occasionally use CO2 to re-inflate tires in the field. ...
    Not any more. The CO2 will neutralize the ammonia and your latex will start to setup.

    Are your tires tubeless ready or do they need to be sealed first?
    Clean, rinse and dry the tire first.
    Wipe with solvent (below), scrub to abrade the surface and wipe the solvent away.
    Brush with rubber cement or Shoe Goo, thinned with solvent (xylene, toluene, "art cement thinner", white gas / naptha).
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  143. #4343
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    Thanks for the response. I'm new to this thread, so you're losing me on some of the acronyms, but here's what I can say: The RV anti-freeze lists PG, water, and "proprietary rust and corrosion inhibiters" as ingredients, but doesn't show the proportions, or say whether the water is distilled. It's rated to -50F. Tires are all tubeless ready Maxxis or Schwalbes. I use CO2 only for temporary field fixes, and would clean out and re-fill the sealant afterward, so I'm not too worried about that. Still not clear on whether adding water or ammonia is needed.

  144. #4344
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    Quote Originally Posted by bde1024 View Post
    ...The RV anti-freeze lists PG, water, and "proprietary rust and corrosion inhibiters" as ingredients, but doesn't show the proportions, or say whether the water is distilled. It's rated to -50F.
    ...
    Still not clear on whether adding water or ammonia is needed.
    Adding water or not depends on the AF (anti-freeze) ratio of PG to water. At rated to -50F, it's likely close to 1:1. Although unknown ratio, it's probably close enough to be usable, except for those additives.

    Unless someone has used that exact product in its current formulation, you don't know if those additives are going to make the latex set up or prevent the brew from sealing when you want it to.

    For both not knowing the ratio and primarily due to the unknown additives unknown affect on the brew, I would recommend NOT using that RV anti-freeze.

    Distilled/RO water should be cheap and readily available.
    PG (propylene glycol) -Amazon or Tractor Supply.

    Both recent recipes, WSS V3 and OSS BAMFS v3.0 use water & PG, not RV anti-freeze.


    Ammonia

    WSS V3 uses Slime tubeless, latex MB and ammonia.

    Formulas: BAMFS v3.0, v1g, v1h, Eurotrash, Steve_S, Thuren, all:
    - use no Slime,
    - use latex MB and ammonia.

    So if you're going with a proven recipe using latex MB, you'll be adding ammonia.

    As you have the Slime ATV, mixing a WSS V3 with Slime ATV instead of Slime tubeless seems reasonable to me. As does going with the cornmeal instead of dryer lint and sourcing rubber crumb. In my table that I recorded various formulas in, I don't see any Slime combined with polenta. I suspect, but do not know, that polenta is o.k. to use with Slime.

    The WSS V3 is
    WSS V3 used Slime & ammonia.
    I have WWS V3 recorded as 16 oz each of distilled/RO water, PG, Slime tubeless, latex mold builder, with 8 oz of ammonia. Add 8 oz of rubber crumb and a handful of dryer lint.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  145. #4345
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    If you go ahead and experiment with that anti-freeze, then in two, five, ten years, if you want to remake that brew, who knows what will be in that AF then, if it's still available. If you use distilled/RO water & PG, both of those will be available and 99 44/100 % reproducable.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  146. #4346
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    I recall my experiments with PG antifreeze. I'd been using waycheap regular (ethylene glycol) antifreeze, worked ok - but when I tried some "notox" antifreeze (no cheap version then) I put a little latex in a small jar, added a similar amount of notox, started to shake to mix - and had a rubber ball.
    Lesson taken: the more fancy the additive package in the antifreeze, the more likely that it will react with the latex.

    I think it was Eurotrash that led us all to using "pure" ingredients such as distilled water and food grade USP propylene glycol (about $25/gallon at amazon or tractor supply).

    Ammonia that I've been using is "clear" or "sudsing" or "all purpose cleaner" available in the cleaning aisle with the mops/etc. I note that the MSDS lists this as 10% ammonia/90% water, but the labels say ammonia and "surfactant", which would be a soap or detergent in water. I note that way back in the dark ages when I got on this bandwagon that windshield washer fluid was an ingredient - but back then, it was ammonia water with blue dye. Now it's water & detergent. With blue dye. Gotta have the ammonia to keep the pH where the latex stays liquid. Not worried about the "surfactant".

    Chunkulants. I've always liked and used Slime - which is a mix of propylene glycol, distilled water and fibers, with rubber crumb(RC) in some versions. When I couldn't get the RC version of Slime, I started trying to add my own RC - but it was a booger magnet, even if soaked in ammonia. Corn meal is a good, nonproblematic equivalent for the "crumb" chunk. The fiber chunk can be sourced from dryer lint, dog hair etc. I've thought of using paper making fiber - cotton "linters", but haven't as yet. There was some discussion/experimentation with other types of chunkulants. We like long thin fibers, and crumbs - we tried glitter (in several sizes) but it was better at getting into the tire bead area and causing problems than plugging punctures - altho it made the sealant boogers sooooo pretty!

    I note that the liquid latex is actually a chunkulant as well, working in concert with the "big" crumbs and the small fibers to seal holes.

    The proportions are to get a good blend of chunkulant (latex, fiber, crumb) in a soupy mixture that will move around and coat everything.

    The liquid carrier contains a glycol (ethylene or propylene) because that stuff does NOT like to evaporate. Or freeze. Water is in there to dilute the glycol and give you soup instead of syrup. This is usually around 1:1 mix just because that seems to be an industry standard for enhancing the best of both.

    Clear as mud?

    I'm about to mix a fresh batch:
    mold builder latex (16 oz)
    slime/w RC (16oz) - remember this is about 50% water/PG mix
    cornmeal (8oz) - presoaked in liquid below
    and 40oz of liquid:
    "clear" ammonia - 90% water, might just use this as the "water"
    distilled water
    USP Propylene Glycol

    5 pints will fill my 3 qt mixermate jug with freeboard to mix. And last for a year or so....
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  147. #4347
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    Hey Wadester, good to see you're still mixing.

    I'm still mixing the "pure" WSS w/ammonia for the mtb clubhouse, it performs well for us. We go through a (80 oz.) batch or two a year. I finally just marked the ingredient levels on the clear plastic jug, in the right mixing order, so it's just pour to the next line and shake, repeat with next ingredient. I've used up to three year old mix, still like new. Cheers!
    I ride with the best dogs.




  148. #4348
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    I use antifreeze in my mix, plus auto-slime (more PG). I did an experiment a few weeks ago in negative F temps and it sealed up just fine. I don't seem to have any sealant issues down to -20F and I don't go much lower than that, although coming up on the iditarod ride to McGrath, I foresee -40 possible. I mix with water and my other additives and there probably ends up being a bit more water than PG, but when sealant freezes it usually goes "back to normal" when the temps increase, with no ill effects. So whether it'll go to -40 and remain semi fluid remains to be seen, but I don't anticipate any big issues. Been doing it for years like this and works well IMO.

    Best Tubeless Brew?-01ecd67cbc6e837b814bb53dbc04dddf3f77437c83.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-018e5fea3d6c016d65b6441129822fc8e5985a2ad2.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-01a0029a2f61a382ccfd76b0d16e54441b5b449ea8.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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