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  1. #101
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    Yup, that's why we're using it!
    Maverick Durance Ano-DUC32/C KING/XTR
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  2. #102
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    Yes! Tubeless works great, but you have to be meticulous in your setup.

    Stans rims are best, but others work with rim strips.
    Use soap and a compressor to seat the bead.
    Use the home made mix or the Stans/Slime mix. 29er tires might need around 50% more sealant than 26ers.
    Let the tire sit on its side for a while then shake per the Stans videos and let it sit on the other side. Repeat. 2 one hour sits per side should do it.

    You should end up with a tire that loses less than half psi per day and is way less likely to flat on the trail and is more compliant with less rolling resistance and can run lower pressure. Also, if you use Stans rims you save around 200 grams per tire of rolling mass due to eliminating the tube and not using a rim strip.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone No Balone
    Rear, being a new tire, was a little fussy. Took a number of attemps to air up and seal. The issue was at the valve stem and rim interface.Had to loosen the lock nut on the valve stem and push the stem into the rim to get the new tire to seat under the rim wall. Once I got it to hold enough air to spin, I retightened the valve nut and brought the valve stem back into the rim tape to seal. Had to air up a number of times to pressure and spin side ways and shake and rotate. The Ignitor didn't weep on the side walls at all. Seemed to seal tight and holding air.
    will see how long the slime/stan's stays liquid.
    Tone.
    Tony, I have to do the same with my Stan's standard valve stems, loosen the lock nut and push them up into the tire. I crank them back down after I get the bead seated and before inflation. I noticed that my Mike C built wheels have the Olympic valve stems with a smaller rubber head and do not interfere with seating; the wheels I built I used the standard stem, and need to loosen it first.

    I love the Ignitor rear, seals quick and easy. Only other ones that seal so simply are Ardent and Mtn. King.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  4. #104
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    Should this homebrew be pretty watery? Or is thick to medium consistancy? My ratios are correct, but it seems very thin and watery. Questioning the sealing properties?

    Tires seem to be sealed very well around the bead, however.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    Yes! Tubeless works great, but you have to be meticulous in your setup.

    Stans rims are best, but others work with rim strips.
    Use soap and a compressor to seat the bead.
    Use the home made mix or the Stans/Slime mix. 29er tires might need around 50% more sealant than 26ers.
    Let the tire sit on its side for a while then shake per the Stans videos and let it sit on the other side. Repeat. 2 one hour sits per side should do it.

    You should end up with a tire that loses less than half psi per day and is way less likely to flat on the trail and is more compliant with less rolling resistance and can run lower pressure. Also, if you use Stans rims you save around 200 grams per tire of rolling mass due to eliminating the tube and not using a rim strip.


    ok, I have a 29 wheel set coming with stans arch rims. Am I going to have to constantly add air to a properly sealed tubeless setup.
    09 Superfly

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by wycough
    Should this homebrew be pretty watery? Or is thick to medium consistancy? My ratios are correct, but it seems very thin and watery. Questioning the sealing properties?

    Tires seem to be sealed very well around the bead, however.

    Mine is about a medium consistency. Stans is really watery, as you add Slime it gets thicker.
    Maverick Durance Ano-DUC32/C KING/XTR
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    ok, I have a 29 wheel set coming with stans arch rims. Am I going to have to constantly add air to a properly sealed tubeless setup.
    I have three wheel sets tubeless, two Arch / yellow tape / notubes stems, one (Sun High Rider = 29er RhynoLIte) converted with Stans rims strips. They all loose 4-6 pounds a week. I check my tires every time before a ride and always have for years with tubes, so no big deal to me.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  8. #108
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    Of course

    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    ok, I have a 29 wheel set coming with stans arch rims. Am I going to have to constantly add air to a properly sealed tubeless setup.
    Just like with tubes.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  9. #109
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    50% more sealent for a 29" tire that is 10% longer? Are they so much more flat-prone, to you?

  10. #110
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    So what is the consensus amount of concoction for 29" 2.2" tire? 2oz, 2.5oz, or 3oz.
    09 Superfly

  11. #111
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    I used 4oz, but mine seemed kinda watery.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    So what is the consensus amount of concoction for 29" 2.2" tire? 2oz, 2.5oz, or 3oz.
    At 80 grams per 2 oz bottle, I only use one.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    I've thought about ways to check the sealant level in my tires - but it always requires that you either break the bead or at least completely depressurize the tire, so a small bit of hassle. I've never been good at the "spin&slosh" method. I just run along like a happy camper until I notice that I have to keep pumping the tire up during the ride - go home, open it up, find it dry, fill'er up. Sometimes, if I don't note the pressure dropping I'll roll the bead apart and have to tube it - but that's no biggie once the sealant is dried out.

    With DIY sealant, I notice fewer sealant boogers - but still get'em. Of course, my sealant lasts long time - so by the time I go in there, the boogers are as big as any Stan's boogers I ever saw. Except that they're flourescent green and have rainbow glitter in them. Schweet!
    How do you check sealant in tubes? And what do you do when it dries out and you get boogers inside your tube? Use it for ghetto applications the next time? Should I run 26" tubes on my 29er rims for ghetto applications?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb
    At 80 grams per 2 oz bottle, I only use one.

    So 2 oz. weighs 80g. Ouch! If I use 3 oz. I am within 20g of the tube I am replacing. Hmmm, seems like the weight savings argument is kinda a moot point.
    09 Superfly

  15. #115
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    It's all in how you look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    So 2 oz. weighs 80g. Ouch! If I use 3 oz. I am within 20g of the tube I am replacing. Hmmm, seems like the weight savings argument is kinda a moot point.
    The proper way to look at this is in terms of performance. 4oz of sealant gives the same flat resistance as a thornproof tube with 2oz of slime in it. Compare THOSE weights - and then consider that the tubeless setup will have less rolling resistance than the most airweight latex tube - as well as better traction.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  16. #116
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    I ride a steel entry level 29er @ 27lbs. I'm not worried about a couple of ounces. It's the flat resistance I'm after without going to a slime tube.

    The homebrew sealed up good. I'll check out the ride this weekend.

  17. #117
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    Cloxxki: I did the math and using average sizes and keeping everything the same a 29er is about 11% bigger in volume so I guess you should use 2.22 oz of sealant not 3 as I suggested.

  18. #118
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    Does dried latex build up on the rim and tire over time and can you peel it off easily?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by esXso
    Does dried latex build up on the rim and tire over time
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by esXso
    and can you peel it off easily?
    Irrelevant, given that it does not build up.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  20. #120
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    It's the ride quality of the tire I'm after. At 30/32# the tire rolls over the stutter bumps nicely. A tubed tire will bounce where the Stanz'd tire will roll and absorb the terrain. I think the weight factor is just about a push.
    I just got out for a ride Friday afternoon, the first one since I installed a new rear and re installed a front tire 50/50 Stan's/Slime for almost 4 oz per tire. They sat in the bike stand for about five days and lost a littl air. The front still giving me a little problem, side wall seep but after my ride yesterday, It looks like it's holding air. On the rear, I opened the valve to air up with the floor pump and some Slime jizzed out and sorta clogged the valve stem a little so I pumped more air and it seemed to clear the stem!
    I think I am over the hump of installation and beginning to complete the deal....errr...seal.

  21. #121
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    1 oz=28.6g so 2 oz is approx. 60g.

    Sorry, I see that you're mentioning fl oz which is around 40g/oz.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb
    At 80 grams per 2 oz bottle, I only use one.

  22. #122
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    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by cronic
    So 2 oz. weighs 80g. Ouch! If I use 3 oz. I am within 20g of the tube I am replacing. Hmmm, seems like the weight savings argument is kinda a moot point.
    Some of the new ust tires, like the Geax Barro Race are pretty light, like 740 grams. If no sealant is required, it's the equivalent of a 660 gr tire with 80 gr of sealant. Starts to look interesting considering the thicker sidewalls at little or no weight penalty. At this point it's all speculation, as I haven't tried a true ust tire yet, and there may be other issues involved.

    I am going to try a ust tire soon, though, for sure. I've heard you can rubber cement the beads and run completely dry.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  23. #123
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    Are there any materials that I could substitute for antifreeze?

    The potentially nasty side effects, particularly in a neighborhood with lots of little kids around, are something I'd like to avoid.

  24. #124
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    Some use windshield washer fluid instead.

  25. #125
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    Propylene glycol is considered "non toxic", as I believe has been mentioned, but may cause mixing problems. Seems to form some nasty corrosive compounds when exposed to heat and air, doesn't sound like a good around bikes or other living things.

    Seems windshield washer fluid is poisonous also:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

    The best solution would be to not have to add anything to run tubless, ie true UST.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  26. #126
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    duplicate post ???
    I ride with the best dogs.




  27. #127
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    Make the concoction effective enough so that you don't have to top it off often. Propylene glycol is very important in making the slime/latex mix last. It's a thin liquid carrier, so it seeps through pores that latex/slime are slower to get through. I found my tires would seal much more quickly and effectively with the PG added. Allows me to get away with using less sealant overall.

    much thanks to the people who contributed to an effective system!
    ***

  28. #128
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    50/50 stans/slime

    How do you know how long it lasts, do you guys dismount and check it? It has been quite a while on mine but I don't really ride that often

    BTW I have a rear tubeless and a front tubed - the tubed loses air faster than the tubeless

  29. #129
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    A new foaming latex formula sealant "caffélatex" that is claimed to better seal sidewall punctures and last longer was shown by the Italian manufacturer EFFETTO MARIPOSA (https://www.effettomariposa.com) at NAHBS 2009 (https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/200...ults/nahmbs096):


  30. #130
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    This makes sense. Bubbles are caused by surface tension in liquids. Anti-foam agents release surface tension. In tire sealant application, increasing surface tension would increase foaming.

  31. #131
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    Sparkle size

    I went to the art supply store looking for 3 sizes of sparkles for my tubeless setup. The picture is of the largest sparkles. Do you think these are too big? Will it plug the presta valve?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  32. #132
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    Those are probably too big to plug most leaks because when a corner gets in the hole, too much will be sticking out and get washed away when the rest of the sealant package floats by.

    When you go to the art supply store ask for "glitter" not sparkles. I can send a picture if you need one. They had lots of glitter and I grabbed 3 different particle sizes.

  33. #133
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    Materials I've seen suggested for adding to mixture:

    glitter of varying particle sizes
    somewhat finely grounded tube
    a fibrous cloth or paper towel
    pepper
    anything relatively fine that won't dissolve in the mixture
    ***

  34. #134
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    Funny you should suggest ground tube. I pulled all the little molding nipples off a tire and threw them in the mixture too. They looked like little rubber plugs to me.

  35. #135
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    Thanks for the reply. I'll try a different store and use glitter only.
    Purple - medium
    Red - fine
    Light Blue - extra fine

  36. #136
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    Is the glitter good enough to solve a 5mm long sidewall tear (that doesn't go all the way through)?

    I have patched it air tight with the glitter, but I'm wondering how trailworthy it is, based on a few scoops of stans, 1 scoop slime and a toss of glitter.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Is the glitter good enough to solve a 5mm long sidewall tear (that doesn't go all the way through)?

    I have patched it air tight with the glitter, but I'm wondering how trailworthy it is, based on a few scoops of stans, 1 scoop slime and a toss of glitter.
    A similar experience that I had (pics on first page) wouldn't hold much air - and I wound up tubing it, and putting in a patch at the house. If your tear is holding air, and not seeping - I wouldn't worry a whole lot, but keep an eye on it. The fix is to tear it down and patch it whenever you get ready.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    A similar experience that I had (pics on first page) wouldn't hold much air - and I wound up tubing it, and putting in a patch at the house. If your tear is holding air, and not seeping - I wouldn't worry a whole lot, but keep an eye on it. The fix is to tear it down and patch it whenever you get ready.
    Noted. Thanks.

  39. #139
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    I did a 50/50 mix of stans and slime auto today and it worked very well in my first tubeless setup. I will report back on how long it lasts. Thanks guys for the help.
    09 Superfly

  40. #140
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    Ok, after a day no loss in pressure. Yeah! But, I think I may have put too much sealant in the tires. I initially went with 1.75 stan's scoops on the first tire and noticed that I didn't hear anything sloshing around when I was doing the shake thing. So I opened one side and added another scoop. I also went with 2.75 scoops on the rear tire. Problem is that they are sealed but you can still hear sealant sloshing around is you take the tire of and shake it. Is this normal? If not, how can I get the "extra" out without breaking the bead?
    09 Superfly

  41. #141
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    The only way out is through the valve stem. Unless you are racing for money, I would just leave it. A little extra sealant won't hurt and only weighs a few ounces.

  42. #142
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    You want the extra. It rolls around and squirts out to seal when you nail a puncture.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    Tends to last for about a year vs 3 months for Stan's, and I live in the southwest desert (LC NM). Seals better, less "wet spotting".
    After running out of Stans, I decided to take the plunge and make up some with wadester's formula. Probably spent in the neighborhood of $25 - $30 in supplies ($8.50 for 24oz of slime, $8 for bottle of antifreeze, $12ish for the latex mold, couple bucks for glitter) but it will easily make up 3 or 4x as much solution as a bottle of Stans. Seems a little more watery than I would have guessed, but I would say similar consistency to Stans.

    Have front tire running straight Stans, and the back will be running the "secret sauce" so should have a good, controlled test of Stans vs homebrew under conditions that will be held the same. Also should be a good test to see if they seal similarly since they'll both be subjected to the same riding terrain, which of late has meant lots of goatheads.

    Thanks for the formula and tips.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    1 Stans - 1 Slime Tubeless - 1 Bonty Super Juice. Seems good.
    I usedonce a Hutchinson fluid in the tube and it sealed the Schraeder valve !!

  45. #145
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    If using Hobby Lobby, google "hobby lobby coupon". They still have 40% coupon off any one item for the latex mold builder. It was very hard to find in the store and the employees were unfamiliar with locating it.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by wycough
    If using Hobby Lobby, google "hobby lobby coupon". They still have 40% coupon off any one item for the latex mold builder. It was very hard to find in the store and the employees were unfamiliar with locating it.
    Amen to that. It took me about 10 minutes each with 2 employees and they couldn't find it, then I searched for another 20 minutes and finally found it. It was in a corner of the store on the very lowest shelf. Not an easy find at all.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6
    A new foaming latex formula sealant "caffélatex" that is claimed to better seal sidewall punctures and last longer was shown by the Italian manufacturer EFFETTO MARIPOSA (https://www.effettomariposa.com) at NAHBS 2009 (https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/200...ults/nahmbs096):

    I'm interested in this stuff? Anyone come across this in the Euro mags or forums?

    https://www.cantitoeroad.com/catalog...acturers_id=13
    https://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/introd...etto-mariposa/
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  48. #148
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    Looks like you can actually buy this stuff now.

    http://cantitoeroad.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=117

    It's pricey, about 50% more than stan's. $30 for a liter.

    It's got me thinking though, you can buy synthetic latex binders for adding to mortar, they're about the consistency of tire sealant. I've got some around from a tile job, I'm gonna try adding some glitter and a surfactant, test it on some old tires.

  49. #149
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    2 questions

    1. Anybody tried the ATV/Mower version of slime? You can see big 'ol chunks in there.

    2. Anybody who is just doing Stans + Slime and nothing else think this combo gets a little too viscous? I am guessing this is why a lot of folks are using wiper fluid or anti freeze


    Plus, I really want this to get bumped back up to the top so people can report on long term success of their brews. Still trying to figure mine out.

  50. #150
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    I use ATV/Mower Slime and Stans in a nearly 50/50 mix. Yes it is thick. This summer when temperatures really climb, I imagine the Stans would evaporate first so I may add more of that and change my mixture to 60/40.
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  51. #151
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    I found this guy in my front tire after 5 months of using one scoop of Stan's and one scoop of ATV Tubeless Slime, plus about two tablespoons of 0.7mm purple glitter. It sounded like a bouncy ball was stuck in my tire as I rode slowly! Surprisingly there was still 1oz or so of fluid left in the tire. As you can see much of the glitter made its way to the tire bead. I don't know if that's bad or not.


  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Village
    I found this guy in my front tire after 5 months of using one scoop of Stan's and one scoop of ATV Tubeless Slime, plus about two tablespoons of 0.7mm purple glitter. It sounded like a bouncy ball was stuck in my tire as I rode slowly! Surprisingly there was still 1oz or so of fluid left in the tire. As you can see much of the glitter made its way to the tire bead. I don't know if that's bad or not.
    Seeing as the tire bead is one of the main things that the sealant has to seal - that's not so bad. But it does speak to the type of hole glitter will seal. We're building sealant with latex - a liquid that will creep into any opening and dry/congeal, but is not that strong. We add slime, which has fibers - that thread thru holes and basically jam enough of themselves into the hole to plug it, or at least make small enough spaces to let the latex finish the job. The rubber chunks add another dimension, as lumps that will fill a bigger hole or at least block it enough for the others to work.

    But glitter? It is a flat plate, which is good for slipping into slits like the bead area - or maybe like laying a patch over a hole. I haven't seen any evidence of this flat plate thing yet. The one plug I pulled out of a sidewall cut contained glitter, but it was all lined up with the flow direction, not across it. I'm thinking glitter may not be the next big thing in sealant after all.

    Somebody mentioned ground black pepper - which I thought was a joke - but it would have the right shape to plug a hole. Someone else had mentioned silica beads - which sounds like a good way to plug a hole. Have to check'em out.

    The foaming thing sounds promising - and I'll ask my chemist friends if they can recommend any hobby grade things that would promote foaming and be compatible with latex and antifreeze.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  53. #153
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    i don´t use glitter anymore....i noticed that it clogged up with the latex mix badly and did no help sealing punctures...instead, i just went with latex, antifreeze, water, and some sealant from napa auto parts....i also did not like slime because it would squeeze through my sidewalls...what i really liked and noticed is that water helps latex build up the clogs....so my mixture is (in scoops):

    Latex: 4
    Antifreeze: 1
    Water: 2 or 1.5
    Napa: 1

    I honestly have to say that the napa auto parts sealant might not be of any help, but i just have to get rid of it somehow lol, so as soon, as it is gone, I will not use it anymore...
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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorholguin
    i don´t use glitter anymore....i noticed that it clogged up with the latex mix badly and did no help sealing punctures
    Where I ride, (cactus,goatheads,tumbleweeds,thornsthornsthorns) thorn punctures are sealed noticeably quicker and with less sealant leakage if something is used to soupify the mixture. My friends have it worse than me....they weigh more and require higher tire pressures, making it difficult to stop the leakage of sealant if the thorn is particularly nasty.

    I'll admit, many could and should get by without it, because it is annoying to work with, but glitter did help me in the north Texas area.
    ***

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    But glitter? It is a flat plate, which is good for slipping into slits like the bead area - or maybe like laying a patch over a hole.
    I sent you a pm a while ago, which you answered. It was about the tire blowing off the rim after I re-inflated it because it dropped around 15 psi and this statement has got me thinking.
    Maybe glitter is not such a good thing, especially if you have two sets of wheels and you don't check both very often.

    My thought is that the glitter, being a very thin plate (as stated) slips into the bead area, more-so if the psi is very low. Glitter doesn't have a very high coefficient of friction, or so I believe, and if too much gets into the bead area, and you re-inflate the tire suddenly, could the glitter's low friction cause the tire to slip it's bead and blow open?

    Just a thought, would welcome any ideas.
    Den

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog
    Any thoughts about using straight "fix-a-flat"?
    Tried it nasty and did not seem to work too well. Stunk also. Formula was a bit toxic for the bike room and for you.
    Straight Stan's here and just replace after a few months when it's molecular construct breakdown makes it less effective and dries out (small price to pay for no flats unless you are really poverty stricken. 1 32 oz last me about a year at about 15 bucks.) Then, just throw away tire when it is worn out with all the dried up garbage. No sidewall seepage, no flats and no fuss. Been doing this for several years now. I will never go back to flats....err tubes. Only thing I might do (if I ever have a hole that will not seal is add some glitter But......
    Have to say this was without anything added:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BsT8D9JYY )
    The caffélatex stuff sounds promising...but after all this time and no flats....welllllllllll
    Also, the secret Hooters sauce. https://www.notubes.com/pdf/VN052305.pdf
    Last edited by ghawk; 04-09-2009 at 04:53 AM.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    Quote Originally Posted by 5titusguy
    While your at the craft store getting your Mold Builder pick up some Silica beads. They are used for drying flowers....
    Then you can put some of these tiny balls/pellets in your tire and they seal up tiny and bigger holes,,,, I have not put a micrometer on them but they work well,,, and you buy one bag that will last a life time for $5.

    I used WSS & a pinch of Silica for every scoop of WSS I put in the tire & it worked great this past weekend, as i got a hole in the top center of the tire & it sealed up.

    Only used this batch for a couple of weeks so far so good.

    Also for the price of doing your homebrew you have a ton of extra WSS left over.
    San Diego MTB forum www.dirttreaders.com

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskitall
    I used WSS
    I'm lost on this acronym.......
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I'm lost on this acronym.......
    Wadesters Secret Sauce
    San Diego MTB forum www.dirttreaders.com

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskitall
    Wadesters Secret Sauce
    I was almost there, since you quoted wadester, but it still does not work for me, at least the middle S.
    Maybe WWS, but it ain't secret no mo..... Carry on.......
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  61. #161
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    What about mixing the CaffeLatex with slime and/or Stan's ? Did anyone try?

  62. #162
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    When you guys are talking 1 part this and one part that, how much is a "part"? 1 cup.....2 cups....1 teaspoon.....etc....?

  63. #163
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    Parts is parts

    As long as the "parts" are all the same amount - you mix what you want for a final amount.

    I like to mix with a pint as the "part", so as to use the full pint of latex. It dries out if left in the jar, but once mixed (in a glass jar) it is good to the last drop. Makes 5 pints, and fits in a 80oz pickle jar (pint=16oz, 5 pints = 80oz so it is an almost exact fit)
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  64. #164
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    i personally have had extremely good success with running these things called tubes in my tires, i know it sounds crazy but it works. i rarely get flats and it never 'wears out'

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i personally have had extremely good success with running these things called tubes in my tires, i know it sounds crazy but it works. i rarely get flats and it never 'wears out'
    Kind of like Carbon 29er rims, Eh?

  66. #166
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    yup

    the tubes are cheap reliable and clean, the rims are expensive reliable and clean

  67. #167
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    Some uf us run tubeless for the better tire compliance with the terrain and lower rolling resistance. Flat protection is just icing on the cake.

    Please do not be a troll in this thread. If you like tubes, that is fine, but we do not need an evangelist here, thank you. I run tubes in some bikes, tubeless in others. Personal freedom of choice.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i personally have had extremely good success with running these things called tubes in my tires, i know it sounds crazy but it works. i rarely get flats and it never 'wears out'
    Hey Thanks!
    I had no idea I had the option of running tubes!?! Now why don't you get on a full suspension thread and tell them why you ride a rigid.

  69. #169
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    Customfab- living in the non flat tire capitol of the world you might not be the best to comment on Tubeless brews. I rode in Bend for 15 years and was able to go 4 years once without a flat.
    After moving to the flat tire capitol of the world(Phoenix,AZ). I wasn't able to ride more than 1 mile without a flat. I've been flat free for over a year since going tubeless. Yes the rolling benefits are nice but being able to ride all day,all month,all year without a flat is priceless.

  70. #170
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    What should I add if my goop is drying up too fast?
    I got a good 4 months on my first recipe then I added glitter and barely went a month until I had a big latex ball and barely a coating of sludge (which didn't fix the holes) left.

    DT

  71. #171
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    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtheo
    What should I add if my goop is drying up too fast?
    I got a good 4 months on my first recipe then I added glitter and barely went a month until I had a big latex ball and barely a coating of sludge (which didn't fix the holes) left.

    DT
    You can use whatever liquid component in your original brew, or add something that does not evaporate. Or just add a couple more ounces of your brew.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  73. #173
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    I don't need validation, I can feel it. If you can't feel it then that is your loss. If you are going to say that I am easily fooled I think not because I do roll down testing on everything that effects performance and the rolling resistance is real and I can feel the traction on the trails.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.
    I heard rubber was overrated. You should get yourself one of these:

    wheel_jpg.jpg

  75. #175
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    Several of the pro teams went tubeless for Paris-Roubaix this year:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...-R_FDJ_sealant

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...J_spare_wheels

    If these guys are doing it, I can guarantee you that they have tested it and it is better for this race than running tubes. Which the cobbles that this race runs over are similar to the small rocks we encounter on trails.

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    I don't need validation, I can feel it. If you can't feel it then that is your loss. If you are going to say that I am easily fooled I think not because I do roll down testing on everything that effects performance and the rolling resistance is real and I can feel the traction on the trails.
    He is an egomaniacal, passive aggressive.....

    .... tool. Spreading the tubeless hate all over the site. Put him in your twit, uh, Ignore list...

    Do not feed the troll, uh, tool,,,,,
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  77. #177
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    as much of a techno phobe as i may sound i am pretty open to most ideas in cycling. i just can't justify the hassle of tubeless for my prefer pursuers and locations

  78. #178
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    Then stop trying to brow beat everyone here into accepting your narrow minded attitude.....
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    as much of a techno phobe as i may sound i am pretty open to most ideas in cycling. i just can't justify the hassle of tubeless for my prefer pursuers and locations
    Life is all about perspective. Tubeless might not seem worth it on your trails, but to many people in this thread, the pros far outweigh the cons.

    Myself, I love no longer needing to remove thorns from the previous days ride that have flattened my tire overnight and patch tubes in order to ride again.

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  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.

    the tire compliance part is pretty logical actually. in a tubed tire you have not only extra rubber in the form of a tube adding a little bit of stiffness, but friction between the tube and tire every time you hit a bump. it's a small amount of movement, but there is a large amount of friction. so it's not necessarily the tire becoming more compliant, but the tire setup as a whole.


    i don't know if the rolling resistance part has ever been proven.

    i still run tubes, but will be trying tubeless in one of my wheelsets within the next week or two.

  81. #181
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    You can hear the difference also, the tire sounds lighter as it rolls over things.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  82. #182
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    Good job! Stan's Sealant

    Found amazing you tube video of Stan's torture test where he ran a tire through its paces.

    Anyone try a batch of Stan's which basically as I understand is a liquide based latex model builder solution that is water/ammonia soluable based with something that would have a tendency to keep the formulation from drying out over time like something inert and non-reactive like good old fashioned mineral oil; as that should keep things from drying out probably for around a year.

    Stan's formulation uses some kind of force activation additive that causes it to seal punctures at the tire puncture site but the problem as I understand is it loses the water moisture over two month period of time through the tires carcass.

    Please feel free to report your results and feedback from out their in the field with your particular setups
    Last edited by daniel58; 04-25-2009 at 07:33 AM.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    Hey Thanks!
    I had no idea I had the option of running tubes!?! Now why don't you get on a full suspension thread and tell them why you ride a rigid.
    although my current ride is a Ti kona WITH front suspension i had a full carbon fully suspended ibis last summer. although i probably wont buy another FS bike i will never have one without a suspension fork.

  84. #184
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    just mixed up my first ever batch of tubeless brew. i used:

    @1 part latex mold builder
    @1 part water
    @1part slime auto
    @ 1 part or less propylene glycol antifreeze(sierra brand).

    i live in a house with a lot of dogs who will lick anything once, so ethylene glycol in something that could end up all over the place was not an option.

    as per someones instructions earlier, i mixed the latex, water and slime first, then added the PG antifreeze, and didn't notice any lumping or latex hardening. it's about light milkshake consistancy. i started out trying to measure each part with a water bottle, but gave up after adding the latex and just kind of eyeballed it.

    aired up a tubeless downhill tire on a non-tubeless trials rim with stock rim strip and a valve stem cut out of an old tube. aired right up and is holding so far. hasn't been long though. i'll update more tomorrow.

  85. #185
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    Anyone have any good sources for synthetic latex that would be suitable for a tubeless brew? I am thinking of trying to make a foaming dealio like Caffelatex and don't want to use an ammonia based substance...

    I have been using the above homebrew recipe for a while and noticed some corrosion on my tires and rims...that was not there before...

    Thanks

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    aired up a tubeless downhill tire on a non-tubeless trials rim with stock rim strip and a valve stem cut out of an old tube. aired right up and is holding so far. hasn't been long though. i'll update more tomorrow.
    How did you use the 'old tube'?

    I have seen people post this before but I couldn't figure out if they glued it in or used a different method to keep it in place/air tight...
    "mountain biking and flyfishing, what more do you want?" - Yeah, I said it

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    What about mixing the CaffeLatex with slime and/or Stan's ? Did anyone try?
    yes, but not by choice and due to a poor choice in tires...
    Wanted to mount WTB Mutano Raptors 700cx44 on my monster cross.

    Rims: Salsa Delgado Cross with Stan's rim strip



    The tires were brand new. I mounted the front tire and tried to air it up with a compressor. It would not seat, soapy water did not help. But I was so anxious to get on with the project so I decided to just squish in the CaffeLatex and do it.




    When I blasted some air in the CaffeLatex blasted out of the rim bead and got all over the place, but then it finally "sproinged" onto the bead and all was good.



    I was covered in CaffeLatex dots and stringy rubbery crap was in my hair.

    So I decided to mount the rear tire with a tube and let it sit overnight to let the tire conform to the rim. The next day I pulled the tube, mounted the rims trip and tire and injected CaffeLatex through the valve (core was not removed).



    This went badly, all the sealant was blown out of the bead/rim interface. I added more CaffeLatex and blew that out again. Seems like CaffeLatex does not seal huge holes because it is too viscous. Well, you can't really expect it too.

    So I washed the tire, rim strip, and added a spooge of Slime Tube Sealant. In the pic you can see the Slime running down the rim and oozin gout of the tire even though there is no air in it.



    I aired up the tire with the compressor and now blew green sh!t all over the place, but I was already rubbery and stringy so it really didn't matter. The tire finally seated but was sizzling air out of the rim/bead interface. Slime was too gooey to coat the inside of the tire quickly despite lots of shaking.



    I added some CaffeLatex, shook the tire, and almost instantly the rim/bead sealed and stopped leaking air. Soapy water confirmed the seal.

    So I added a small spoogelet of Slime Tube Sealant to a water bottle. It was too thick to coat the bottle, even with shaking. It just kind of stuck to the bottle. A little bit of CaffeLatex was added, and then it combined with the slime to make a layer of green foam that coated the bottle.



    It has been a few days and the tires have lost no noticeable pressure.

    More on this here: https://www.twentyniner.ch/phpbb3/vi...php?f=9&t=1794
    Last edited by marty_hd; 05-04-2009 at 11:15 PM.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbflyfshr
    How did you use the 'old tube'?

    I have seen people post this before but I couldn't figure out if they glued it in or used a different method to keep it in place/air tight...

    i cut about 1" diameter around the valve stem. inserted the valve stem into the rim. threaded the locknut down on it, cinched it down tight, then added another one to hold it on there good. seems to have worked like a charm. the photos i've seen on some mail order sites of the stans valves are basically the same thing. some of the photos i've seen you can even see the slightly jagged edges from where it was cut out.

  89. #189
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    I have had really good luck with Flows with yellow tape, Bonty XDX, and this brew:
    1 part Latex Mold Builder
    1 part Tubeless Slime
    1 part windex

    I had a little trouble sealing the valves, so I put some gasket maker around them and that helped once the sealant hit it. I added a tuna can's worth to each tire. The front leaks a little more than the rear, but only a few PSI a week. Very manageable. Seated with a floor pump.

  90. #190
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    Cheers sean!!

    Clears that up. THKS!
    "mountain biking and flyfishing, what more do you want?" - Yeah, I said it

  91. #191
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    32 oz of Stans + 24 oz of Slime (ATV/Mower)

    (because thats what it comes in)

    Whats in my tires has worked well. The stuff thats not in the tires makes a nice looking splatter pattern all over my garage wall.

  92. #192
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    Those fibers in slime look an awful lot like dryer lint. Gonna be giving that a try on my next round.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  93. #193
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    Apologies if this has been noted before, I am just about to have a second go at tubeless, on my first go about three years ago I noted that Stan's patent for tubeless sealant used cornmeal (polenta to us Europeans) along with the latex/ water/ antifreeze. I might try oatmeal this time round. All that soluble fibre in oats must be as good for your tyres as they are for your digestive system...

    Also, if you are having trouble with sidewall pinholes, paint the inside of the tyre with a couple of coats of undiluted latex solution.

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    I'm goin ghetto this weekend using WSS recipe. Seems that glitter may not add any benefit. Thoughts from users regarding the benefit or lack thereof in using glitter? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaEps View Post
    A little bit of pee just trickled out of my pipi when I saw that.

  95. #195
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    i have no input on the glitter, but just thought i would update that three weeks later and no air added and my tire is still sealed up fine. plenty of riding, no burping.

    WSS is the bomb.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Cloxxki got it: art supply stores, or the internets. Hobby Lobby is my usual source, but here's one: http://www.artmolds.com/product_deta...ubber&u_cat=28
    And more important, the Material Safety Data Sheet - which tells you it is latex and ammonia (and a bit of water, but they don't actually say that): http://www.artmolds.com/pdf/ACF5DCA.PDF


    I've brought spokeprep back to life by adding ammonia to it, and you might be able to do that to your LMB. But for $11/pt I would just spring for another jar. Once mixed into sealant, it hasn't degraded on me - stored in a glass jar inside the house.

    Amount to use? Just like Stan's - for a 2.4x29 tire I use 3 scoops (2 oz ea)
    You don't want anything with ammonia in it. It is highly corrosive to aluminum. There was a recent article on VeloNews about this that showed corroded rims.

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDummy
    I'm goin ghetto this weekend using WSS recipe. Seems that glitter may not add any benefit. Thoughts from users regarding the benefit or lack thereof in using glitter? Thanks
    I did glitter in my first batch which is now just about gone. I will be leaving it out on my next batch. I couldn't really see any instances where I felt it was really doing any good, and when I did a tire swap I felt the glitter was making it harder for me to get the bead re-sealed once the tires were mounted. Seems like the glitter stuck on the edge of the bead just made extra spaces for air to escape. That's my theory anyway, the last batch was also my 1st batch so I don't have a great deal of personal experience to pull from.

  98. #198
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    I'm going to try ghetto tubeless using the tube/homebrew method. Any changes to your WSS recipe?

    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Thanks in advance,
    Will

    Oh and could someone advise which slime to get? Is "tubeless slime", the tube sealant you pick up at the bike shop?
    Last edited by William_Cannon; 05-22-2009 at 06:45 AM.

  99. #199
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    Tubeless slime-not the slime for tube tires. Much as I hate Wal-Mart they sell it by the gallon for very cheep. The kind you want has little black chunks in it. The kind you don't want is all green.

  100. #200
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    Article on ammonia in sealants causing aluminum corrosion


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