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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I would be happy with the ability to run different travel on both front and rear, as well as change the BB significantly in either travel setup.

    Id love a bike that could run 110mm rear and 120mm front (which fits most light trailforks like Ribbon SL and 34 SC), but swap a fork, shock and beefy tires and you have something that can handle more abusive terrain at 140/150mm. 29x3 or 275x3.5 capability and youve got a recipe for a frame that could last a decade...if standards dont change before.

    A few manufacturers already do this, but its cool to see it on more bikes.
    IDK, this strikes me as an odd request. A custom frame might get you what your asking for but it's very unlikely you'll find a frame that matches your specific requirements.

    Jack of all trades and master of none. There are bikes out there that are versatile enough to be good in two different setups, but at some point you need to draw a line in the sand and decide that you need two bikes instead of one that are better suited to the task at hand.
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Did anyone mention flip chips?

    There was far too much chest beating in this thread there for a bit.

    I think more bike needs more flip chips with more dramatic BB raising/lowering, or better yet 3 setting flip chips.
    Banshee's pre 2017 frames has three position chips on the rear of the frame. Max being one degree steeper or slacker.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    My Lenz Lunch Box offered that flexibility somewhat. ... in less than 10 minutes I could go from a 160/152 to a 130/127 bike using the same shock.

    In the end I just didn't need the long travel and the frame/ fork weight had me go in a different direction
    I thought the Lunchbox was pretty light, like 7lbs with shock?

    Devin is certainly on the right track for versatility, though.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Jack of all trades and master of none. There are bikes out there that are versatile enough to be good in two different setups, but at some point you need to draw a line in the sand and decide that you need two bikes instead of one that are better suited to the task at hand.
    Some of us don't want a stable of multiple bikes, maybe we don't have the time to ride one bike, much less 5.

    I'd rather have a bike that can do a little bit of everything reasonably well then something that can do one thing really well and sucks at everything else.

    MikeSee is kinda getting at this with his personal Lenz: some people may not like his particular bike, but for him it's nearly perfect.

    If you would rather buy into the N+1 consumerism mentality, you can buy a bunch of bikes that does their specific use perfectly, but I'll spend my money on versatility.

    My point was, some of us obviously like low BB's, some of us like high BB's, some of us like short chainstays, and some of us don't. There are some manufactures out there who want to offer one bike that satisfies a lot of customers, and there are some manufacturers who would rather offer 20 different models. The problem of course is that we end up with a whole market full of bikes that all end looking the same until someone realizes "hey that was a dumb idea" then the market takes a huge shift. Well, except for the bikes that allowed customers to easily change aspects of the bike they didn't like and still keep up with the rest of the industry's flavor of the week.
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  5. #305
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    Rocker changes are the way to go, the difference is far more significant than a flip chip.

    That said, I think a flip chip can arrive at the same result by significantly changing the way your rear suspension feels. Reducing travel is not necessary unless you want to reduce ride height.

    Having a dual position fork or a fork that can be incrementally reduced is an easy way to tweak geometry and ride height. The Manitou forks can be reduced with the use of a shock pump.

    I like using two wheelsets, itís a quick way to drop the bike and speed up handling, also makes plus tires an option for loose soils, snow, and mud.

    I thinking changing suspension components is a PITA, Iíd sooner have a second bike.

    So maybe a multi position shock mount and an adjustable height fork, adjustable drop outs, capacity for 29 x 2.6Ē to 27.5 x 3Ē, thatíd give a lot of choices without having to make drastic parts swaps.

    My Smash can do the dual wheelsets, I opted for a single travel fork though I did consider Manitou for a minute, only one drop out option, but it has a flip chip. The B.B. is quite high to begin with, so it works well with smaller wheels. If I could tweak things, Iíd want the flip chip to make a more obvious difference in feel, ie more progressive, and Iíd like a second chainstay position for 27.5 wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    My Lenz Lunch Box offered that flexibility somewhat. When I had it I had both the 5'' and 6'' rockers and a Talas 36 set to 130/160.

    So in less than 10 minutes I could go from a 160/152 to a 130/127 bike using the same shock. In the end I just didn't need the long travel and the frame/ fork weight had me go in a different direction
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Some of us don't want a stable of multiple bikes, maybe we don't have the time to ride one bike, much less 5.

    I'd rather have a bike that can do a little bit of everything reasonably well then something that can do one thing really well and sucks at everything else.

    MikeSee is kinda getting at this with his personal Lenz:
    Which Lenz? do you know how many he's had in the last 3 years?

    If you would rather buy into the N+1 consumerism mentality, you can buy a bunch of bikes that does their specific use perfectly, but I'll spend my money on versatility.

    My point was, some of us obviously like low BB's, some of us like high BB's, some of us like short chainstays, and some of us don't. There are some manufactures out there who want to offer one bike that satisfies a lot of customers, and there are some manufacturers who would rather offer 20 different models. The problem of course is that we end up with a whole market full of bikes that all end looking the same until someone realizes "hey that was a dumb idea" then the market takes a huge shift. Well, except for the bikes that allowed customers to easily change aspects of the bike they didn't like and still keep up with the rest of the industry's flavor of the week.
    I also value versatility. Most of my bikes are capable of taking different forms. Almost all of them have been built up and enjoyed in different forms. Some are built specifically for a certain task and some have two wheelsets, a different drivetrain, or a different handlebar/brake setup based on my needs and the season.

    When the market shifts I'll still be riding my steel frames and running SS most of the time.

    How you spend your money is entirely up to you. Vote with your wallet.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  7. #307
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    Yes, three choices: long, longer, and longest.

    Iíd prefer short, shorter, and shortest.

    I think itíd be cool to have curved drop outs with three positions and the option to flip the drop outs to change ride height.

    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Banshee's pre 2017 frames has three position chips on the rear of the frame. Max being one degree steeper or slacker.
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+ (for sale)
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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I thought the Lunchbox was pretty light, like 7lbs with shock?

    Devin is certainly on the right track for versatility, though.
    It is for what it is, but combine that with the 36 Talas/ heavier PB shock and was more than I need to lug around on my daily rides.
    I bought it when I thought a friend and I would be traveling to parks more often- so the weight penalty for a 1 bike was worth it. That didn't pan out.
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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    That was my point, lost on some apparently

    I stopped wearing a watch twenty years ago, I have no interest in having time control my life any more than it already does.

    I feel for folks who don't know how time impacts their interaction with life.

    Not gonna judge Strava users, in time they'll judge themselves.

    Off topic a bit: Yesterday I met with a couple who are in their eighties. The lady is struggling with memory issues, parkinsons, she has gradually become more sedentary, rarely gets out of the house, mostly watches TV and sleep/rests in bed. The man stays busy working around the house, doing chores, taking care of the lady.

    I was seeing them because the lady is struggling with depression. Anyone wanna guess why she's depressed?

    So I told her that her problem was not likely chemistry; she's already taking Cymbalta. I suggested to her that she'd let herself slide over time into a stagnant state and she was depressed because she wasn't doing anything meaningful.

    I suggested she get out of the house, do chores, add structure to her life, which would serve a couple purposes: Fill her day and give her a sense of satisfaction.

    Will she do what I suggested? Probably not, people rarely make changes unless they initiate it themselves, but it never hurts to try

    So if Strava users feel satisfied, then by all means, just do it, but make sure that the satisfaction you feel is sustaining vs diminishing your zest for life.
    I canít speak for everyone, but for me, Iím only interested in Strava insofar as itís a tool that helps me track whether Iím getting faster. What I really care about is race day.

    As to your anecdote about finding purpose, Iím not sure there are many things that require more dedication than being an athlete in the process of chasing ever bigger goals.

    So, using power meters and stopwatches help me ensure that ďclimbs really fastĒ becomes objective, so that I can then focus on whether the bike is fun to ride. And as JoePAz pointed out, the review narrows the field, and then I demo.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Did anyone mention flip chips?

    There was far too much chest beating in this thread there for a bit.

    I think more bike needs more flip chips with more dramatic BB raising/lowering, or better yet 3 setting flip chips.
    Rocky Mountain Ride 9 system?
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  11. #311
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    Agree with all the comments on versatility being desirable. With Fox forks and shocks (and RS I suspect) the VRs can be used to tune ride in this manner.

    I typically ride my Fuel EX with a 0.2 VR in the shock and two VRs in the fork, along with some i30 rims and XR4/XR3 tires.

    If I slap a 0.8 VR in the shock and add one VR in the fork, and switch to my lighter wheels with XR3/XR1 tires, the bike feels a LOT more like an xc weapon (not quite, but really close).
    Whining is not a strategy.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Which Lenz? do you know how many he's had in the last 3 years?

    Roughly one per year.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I thought the Lunchbox was pretty light, like 7lbs with shock?

    Devin is certainly on the right track for versatility, though.
    Few carbon bikes of that caliber (in between 6-7" of travel) are that light with the shock, let alone aluminum. Most of the lighter carbon ones come in around 7.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Few carbon bikes of that caliber (in between 6-7" of travel) are that light with the shock, let alone aluminum. Most of the lighter carbon ones come in around 7.
    The new Scott Ransom 170/170 29íer (or 27.5) frameset weighs under 6lb. I believe a medium is 5.8 with shock.
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  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    The new Scott Ransom 170/170 29íer (or 27.5) frameset weighs under 6lb. I believe a medium is 5.8 with shock.
    I am holding out hope, but I truly am waiting to see how long it takes you to kill that bike.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    The new Scott Ransom 170/170 29íer (or 27.5) frameset weighs under 6lb. I believe a medium is 5.8 with shock.
    Yeah, I've been doing this for a while, I wouldn't believe it until I saw it hooked up to a scale. Scott is notorious for building proprietary crap that doesn't hold up in the long run. Based on my longtime observations and riding them, I'd never own one. In any case, I said few, because I know there are a few. My frame is 6.8, but the headtube area is beefy as heck and it's a stout frame, just like any bike with that much travel should be. Alloy frames with that much weight and a decent shock are usually 8-9.5lbs or so, depending on shock choice. And still, you posted a carbon bike, the original context was aluminum enduro bike at 7lbs with shock being impossible (with sound structure).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  17. #317
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    I don't think 7lbs is impossible...at least in smaller sizes haha. It depends on the shock and suspension design. The Liteville 301 for example is pretty light in size Medium, easily coming under 7lbs with shock...but it's a non-reservoir shock on a Medium frame with a really simple (and somewhat awkward looking) suspension design.

    People have weighed the 29+ Lenz Behemoth Size Large at around 7lbs. Granted that's a 130mm frame and Lenz's reach numbers aren't newschool. I'm sure those bendy tubes aren't always the lightest, either.

    I think there is some confirmation bias going that tells people "an alloy bike can't be as a light as my $3800 carbon frame." Thing is, carbon frames are getting heavier to withstand more abuse (look at new Santa Cruz Bronson or 5010) and as some folks are moving back to aluminum frames to save money, there is some market push towards keeping those alloy bikes competitive in weight - unless you're Kona, Transition or something.

    By saying "7lbs Alloy Enduro Frame is Impossible," you're essentially allowing the industry to say "welp we give up on light alloy bikes, guess you'll just need to pay big money for carbon!" Sorry - I refuse to do that. As a consumer, I do in vote with my wallet, and I DEMAND lower frame weight from manufacturers. At least Scott is making some effort (although I'm sure it'll keep their warranty department busy) to make their carbon bikes worth the premium as is Liteville and Lenz.
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  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yeah, I've been doing this for a while, I wouldn't believe it until I saw it hooked up to a scale. Scott is notorious for building proprietary crap that doesn't hold up in the long run. Based on my longtime observations and riding them, I'd never own one. In any case, I said few, because I know there are a few. My frame is 6.8, but the headtube area is beefy as heck and it's a stout frame, just like any bike with that much travel should be. Alloy frames with that much weight and a decent shock are usually 8-9.5lbs or so, depending on shock choice. And still, you posted a carbon bike, the original context was aluminum enduro bike at 7lbs with shock being impossible (with sound structure).
    Lol.... Iíve had one for well over a month. Size XL but believe what you like I believe there are photos out there of shock and hardware coming in at 5.83 but I donít remember exactly Iíve read so many reviews recently. I do know that with an extremely heavy duty build, burly tires, and giant flat pedals itís 30lb even. Sorry I didnít personally weigh the frame.

    In terms of durability this has already been done-From where I sit: 2019 bike testing.-61205402-6a1b-4995-85a6-fd725212ad13.jpeg

    Once Iím on the other side of these back issues Iíll be building up a second ransom with dual crown fork for DH duties. Probably a 920/930. No dropper, DHX2/Fox 49 at 190mm. A2C will be almost identical so no geometry changes. Maybe swap out the eagle for Sram 7 speed.
    Denver, CO

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I am holding out hope, but I truly am waiting to see how long it takes you to kill that bike.
    I promise to try!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I mean basically all this thread has ended up saying is buy a bike that works for your terrain and style of riding.
    Well yes but bike industy/manufacturer's leverage aspirational marketing that convinces some riders what they they think their terrain "ought" to be and sell them bikes that makes riders feel like pinkbike POD's when they look in the mirror but are in fact not very practical for their actual terrain and riding capability.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Lol.... Iíve had one for well over a month. Size XL but believe what you like I believe there are photos out there of shock and hardware coming in at 5.83 but I donít remember exactly Iíve read so many reviews recently. I do know that with an extremely heavy duty build, burly tires, and giant flat pedals itís 30lb even. Sorry I didnít personally weigh the frame.

    In terms of durability this has already been done-

    Once Iím on the other side of these back issues Iíll be building up a second ransom with dual crown fork for DH duties. Probably a 920/930. No dropper, DHX2/Fox 49 at 190mm. A2C will be almost identical so no geometry changes. Maybe swap out the eagle for Sram 7 speed.
    That's great. How many years have you owned it? My burly RFX with a 6.8lb frame somehow also weighs almost exactly 30lbs. Good luck using the ransom for DH all the time w/a DC. I'd seriously be interested to know if it holds up over time and how it's running after a few seasons.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I don't think 7lbs is impossible...at least in smaller sizes haha. It depends on the shock and suspension design. The Liteville 301 for example is pretty light in size Medium, easily coming under 7lbs with shock...but it's a non-reservoir shock on a Medium frame with a really simple (and somewhat awkward looking) suspension design.
    A totally inappropriate shock for the enduro category the bike is supposedly designed for. Likely in the pursuit of lightweight design. Not a reasonable sacrifice IMO. Bottom line, if this was the way to make reliable bikes repeatedly, I'd expect to see the big manufacturers doing it. Over time, it has proven to not be the case, unless new materials/manufacturing processes are used.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That's great. How many years have you owned it? My burly RFX with a 6.8lb frame somehow also weighs almost exactly 30lbs. Good luck using the ransom for DH all the time w/a DC. I'd seriously be interested to know if it holds up over time and how it's running after a few seasons.
    Not my concern I change bikes annually anyways. They usually see a hard 2-3000 miles, in my experience if theyíll break they do it within that time. The bike I was on this last season is one of those bikes... loved around here but when ridden hard the chainstays have a tendency to fail. It wasn't carbon. Majority of people won't have an issue but including myself I know of at least a dozen people that have cracked them, with about half having it happen on more than one iteration of chainstay. The issues I experienced with the Yeti 150 lead me to believe the same. So far I haven't had any issues with the Ransom though.

    A well built Enduro bike sees no different forces than a DH bike IMO. Hell, from Colorado to Bootleg Canyon it seems most DH races are won on Enduro bikes anyways! Europe may be different. DH bikes are just designed around a suspension platform where pedaling doesnít matter. A SC V10 weighs the same as the majority of enduro bikes- 32lbs (with DH casing tires). A lot of enduro bikes are rated for dual crown forks now as well. Yeti said the 150 was ďdownhill ratedĒ and has been done on previous models, the Capra is as well off the top of my head. Regarding enduro bike weights- it usually comes with tire/insert choice which is directly related to how fast youíre riding. IMO the Ransom frame is lighter because of the Fox Nude TR not because they skimped on frame material. So far Iím more impressed with the Nude vs the 2018 X2.... I have not weighed the Nude but Iím guessing itís 200g lighter than an X2. The combo stem also makes the Ransom much lighter. Otherwise there is no difference between most enduro builds.
    Denver, CO

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Not my concern I change bikes annually anyways.
    Well, for people that don't, I'd be interested to know how the bike, hardware, etc., hold up at that weight. I tend to hang on to bikes for a few years and I want the bike to be as stiff and solid starting the 2nd or 3rd season as it was on the first. I find that many mass-produced/large manufacturer bikes are not, they are more intended as "disposable" bikes that generally do not hold up year after year. They have gotten better, but they usually find new ways to screw it all up.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    A totally inappropriate shock for the enduro category the bike is supposedly designed for. Likely in the pursuit of lightweight design. Not a reasonable sacrifice IMO. Bottom line, if this was the way to make reliable bikes repeatedly, I'd expect to see the big manufacturers doing it. Over time, it has proven to not be the case, unless new materials/manufacturing processes are used.

    How many hours have you spent riding that frame and shock?

    Right. That's what I thought.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well, for people that don't, I'd be interested to know how the bike, hardware, etc., hold up at that weight. I tend to hang on to bikes for a few years and I want the bike to be as stiff and solid starting the 2nd or 3rd season as it was on the first. I find that many mass-produced/large manufacturer bikes are not, they are more intended as "disposable" bikes that generally do not hold up year after year. They have gotten better, but they usually find new ways to screw it all up.
    Interesting experience. In the last few years Iíve had two boutique brands and a Specialized Enduro. The Enduro was by far the most reliable with both others having pretty major frame issues or outright failures. One was carbon one was alloy. The carbon had major issues within the first month. I think my experience has been the opposite. I even broke my scapula on the enduro going from 34mph to zero without so much as a stress crack in the paint as I pile-drived myself into the ground lol. Hopefully the Scott is similar! I know everyone likes to hate on the big companies but they have more money for R&D.
    Denver, CO

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Interesting experience. In the last few years Iíve had two boutique brands and a Specialized Enduro. The Enduro was by far the most reliable with both others having pretty major frame issues or outright failures. One was carbon one was alloy. The carbon had major issues within the first month. I think my experience has been the opposite. I even broke my scapula on the enduro going from 34mph to zero without so much as a stress crack in the paint as I pile-drived myself into the ground lol. Hopefully the Scott is similar! I know everyone likes to hate on the big companies but they have more money for R&D.
    Yeah, the 2014 29er specialized enduro I had was a good example of a bike not intended to last season after season. The cable routing was extremely problematic and difficult to get "just perfect" so it wouldn't rub or tug, but also without excessive loops and rubbing due to slack. For that reason it sawed through the chainstay, which Specialized replaced. It's not that under-the-BB routing is always bad, it works great on my pivot, but the way specialized did it was bad. But much more of an issue was the fact that you couldn't change the horst-link bearings. There were two on each side of the frame material (2 per side, 4 total) and no "lip" for a blind bearing puller to grab on to. No way to punch them out and punch in new ones. I have a blind-bearing puller kit, actually two of them counting the short slide-hammer kit I also have, along with all measures of punches. They were clearly not intended to be replaced, which when you consider the proprietary shock mount, the intent of the bike was clear, to run for a little while, and then be disposed of. The only way to do it was replace the whole chainstay, rather than buy some standard bearings like for a decently designed frame. What would happen when you could no longer get that year yoke-mount shock or what other options were available? Yes, I know there were a few options, but just a poor design that couldn't offer more. I can't say I really got my use out of that bike, I wanted to try it though to see how 29er enduro would do. It did that for me.

    Different strokes for different folks. Hopefully the newest enduros are better, but little details like bearings that can be relatively easily replaced is hugely important for me.

    Those are the details I look for. I'd say comfortably that I'm probably in the majority that wants a bike to run for at least a few seasons or more.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    How many hours have you spent riding that frame and shock?

    Right. That's what I thought.
    XC shocks do not belong on enduro frames.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    My enduro was a 2017. I've never had bearing issues locally but I rarely ride in the wet. As far as cable rub that sounds like an install issue. I've seen the same thing happen to a Santa Cruz hightower and a Yeti sb6. I think riding 3,000 miles a season constitutes most peoples 3-4 seasons of riding. A lot of people try and make the argument that the Fox Nude TR "looks" like a XC shock and because it doesn't have a reservoir it's therefore an XC shock and doesn't belong on a 170 travel bike. Meanwhile it's the best performing shock I've ever ridden aside from a custom 11-6. Hell, most shop employees don't even cycle the shock to equalize the negative chamber when setting one up. Then the customer complains and says "the shock sucks". Do most people even know what the purpose of a reservoir is or do they just see it and feel they have to have it? I suspect the latter. The first ride I did on the Ransom was a 1500' descent reaching speeds of 35mph in "black diamond" rated terrain. As soon as I stopped I reached down and held the shock body. No difference in temperature compared to the 2018 X2 I previously rode. Non-issue.

    I see the Nude TR and combo stem/bars as progression in the industry vs making the same old same old that everyone will complain about as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    My enduro was a 2017. I've never had bearing issues locally but I rarely ride in the wet. As far as cable rub that sounds like an install issue. I've seen the same thing happen to a Santa Cruz hightower and a Yeti sb6. I think riding 3,000 miles a season constitutes most peoples 3-4 seasons of riding. A lot of people try and make the argument that the Fox Nude TR "looks" like a XC shock and because it doesn't have a reservoir it's therefore an XC shock and doesn't belong on a 170 travel bike. Meanwhile it's the best performing shock I've ever ridden aside from a custom 11-6. Hell, most shop employees don't even cycle the shock to equalize the negative chamber when setting one up. Then the customer complains and says "the shock sucks". Do most people even know what the purpose of a reservoir is or do they just see it and feel they have to have it? I suspect the latter. The first ride I did on the Ransom was a 1500' descent reaching speeds of 35mph in "black diamond" rated terrain. As soon as I stopped I reached down and held the shock body. No difference in temperature compared to the 2018 X2 I previously rode. Non-issue.

    I see the Nude TR and combo stem/bars as progression in the industry vs making the same old same old that everyone will complain about as well.
    Sorry, but holding the shock isn't very scientific and doesn't account for many variables. So you're saying the nude shock should be speced instead of the X2 and DPX on all of these AM/Enduro and DH bikes? I wouldn't expect you to have bearing issues with an enduro, since you only ride bikes for one season. Whatever makes you happy

    And combo-stem bars is a dumba$$ idea for anyone that wants to ever take their bike with them somewhere. Way easier to just remove and re-install a faceplate. I travel with my bikes several times a year and this would needlessly make things more complex. I'd never choose to buy this for several reasons, including tweaking bar position, being able to slide off controls without disconnecting, etc.
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  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Sorry, but holding the shock isn't very scientific and doesn't account for many variables. So you're saying the nude shock should be speced instead of the X2 and DPX on all of these AM/Enduro and DH bikes? I wouldn't expect you to have bearing issues with an enduro, since you only ride bikes for one season. Whatever makes you happy

    And combo-stem bars is a dumba$$ idea for anyone that wants to ever take their bike with them somewhere. Way easier to just remove and re-install a faceplate. I travel with my bikes several times a year and this would needlessly make things more complex. I'd never choose to buy this for several reasons, including tweaking bar position, being able to slide off controls without disconnecting, etc.
    LOL... where to start?

    The whole point of a reservoir on a shock is to increase oil volume to decrease heat build up and prevent performance fade. Most people assume the 11-6 is a reservoir and I'm sure it does hold more volume but it's really a complete 2nd circuit. I wonder if they made a single circuit coil if it would have a reservoir.... Speaking of the Nude TR the overall size difference vs a DPS is quite different. The body of the shock is much larger that also allows for more volume in addition to a 3rd air chamber.

    Here's some light reading for you-
    ReStackor Suspension Fluid Viscosity

    So yes, while rudimentary, touching the shock does give an idea if it's being worked too hard. The DPS on my 4.5 after a lap at Trestle bike park (similar descent) would almost be too hot to touch. Continue to believe in market hype though.... I'm saying the Fox Nude TR that was designed for the Scott Ransom works exceptionally well in its application. I'm also 200lb in riding gear and over 6' tall so not really a lightweight that you see doing most bike reviews. I'm not saying the Nude TR works better, I'm saying it's an equal at a significant weight savings. This is progression in an otherwise stagnant industry (no more interbike right?).

    A quick glance at strava reveals the majority of people ride at or under 1,000 miles a year. Without really doing a study I would assume that applies to 75% of riders. Riding 3,000 miles a year, possibly with less service intervals (but realistically probably more) seems like a bearing issue would surface in that time. Colorado is dry and dusty for the majority of the riding season. I'd believe you if you said a PNW season is much different and harder on bearings.

    As far as a combo bar/stem, again it's progression. I haven't weighed it but I bet there's over a 100g weight savings. Anyone who is serious enough about riding surely has a 90mm mtb stem lying around that they can't give away. I have about 6... I think it's easier to pull the bar/stem combo and pop on a "keeper stem" than taking the bars off. It's a difference of loosening and removing 4 bolts and replacing vs loosening 2 for sure. I travel with my bike about a half a dozen times a year. Rolling the bars is a valid concern but the sweep/rise is equal to raceface bars and I found I quickly adapted to the roll. If anything it makes it easier to readjust after removing them for travel because you don't have to make micro-adjustments. Obviously YRMV but you sound like someone who is complaining for the sake of complaining without actually having an open mind to change and progression. I don't expect my posts to change your mind.
    Denver, CO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    A quick glance at strava reveals the majority of people ride at or under 1,000 miles a year.
    So that assumes most riders use strava and most riders use it every ride.

    Excellent!

    I don't doubt that the majority of riders ride less than 1000 miles, there are so many recreational riders that go out a few times a year on their 10 or 15 year old hardtails, and they'd far outnumber those of us that ride frequently. I'm not impressed by calling out numbers, it's just fun to see how flawed many of the conclusions are here. Keep it coming.
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  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So that assumes most riders use strava and most riders use it every ride.

    Excellent!

    I don't doubt that the majority of riders ride less than 1000 miles, there are so many recreational riders that go out a few times a year on their 10 or 15 year old hardtails, and they'd far outnumber those of us that ride frequently. I'm not impressed by calling out numbers, it's just fun to see how flawed many of the conclusions are here. Keep it coming.
    Excellent contribution. I'll take your response or lack thereof as you having a better understanding of suspension design now.

    As far as Strava... I was simply working with available numbers. It's the only public database I'm aware of, but you're right I would also assume most strava users ride more than most offroad cyclists. In the Denver area it's very rare to see a bike more than a few years old and most cost more than the cars they were locked down to on the way to the trailhead. lol.
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    Strava is for wieners with no wieners

    just go ride

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    Strava has been a useful tool in my neck of the woods for gaging trail use, especially heat maps. Also, dispelling the idea with the enviros that the folks riding advanced, technical trails (social trails not in the system) are gas guzzling shuttlers. Perhaps a decade or more ago it might have been true but with the advances in bikes the last decade these trails are dominated by folks who are pedaling to the top.

    I've been following this thread but not much to contribute other that I appreciate the progression. 5 and 6" travel bikes are so much more capable now. I'm somewhere in the middle on the low bottom bracket thing. I get Mikesee's points and I also agree somewhat with Streetdoctor but when it comes to endure, I'd rather be over-biked on an XC-ish race with my 6" travel Turner RFX (13.4" bb ht) than what might be the better tool, my Ibis Ripley LS (12.99" bb). Too many pedal strikes. Not good when every stage is a downhill sprint. Despite being an old guy my technique is not lacking.

    Or, back to the example of a technical rock crawl climb. I come far closer to cleaning the initial, rock strewn climb on HiLine in Sedona on my 32lb RFX. You'd think the 28lb 29r would be better but I have to ratchet more, can't maintain momentum, and have more stalling pedal strikes despite the bigger wheels. Technique and skill only goes so far.

    Interesting thread. Way to keep it civil for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post

    Or, back to the example of a technical rock crawl climb. I come far closer to cleaning the initial, rock strewn climb on HiLine in Sedona on my 32lb RFX. You'd think the 28lb 29r would be better but I have to ratchet more, can't maintain momentum, and have more stalling pedal strikes despite the bigger wheels. Technique and skill only goes so far.
    Reminds me of when I led our 11-12 person AK contingent up Made in the Shade this year after the Whiskey. I never remember how much tech climbing is on that trail, only that you eventually get up on the side of a hill, haha. Right off the bat it goes to 11 pretty fast. I made it way far up most of the climbs on my XC rig, but man I wanted a beefier ride for the downs. This year I'm probably going to bring my 120mm fork and Maxxis Icons in my baggage and install the bigger stuff, which will make riding down that stuff much safer...Like you, I'd rather be riding a big travel machine I know I can just launch off anything I want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    XC shocks do not belong on enduro frames.

    You rarely fail to seize the opportunity to prove your ignorance. Top marks for consistency.

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    Now, now, canít we all just be Strava buddies?

    Gawd, the day I use Strava, please someone, shoot me.
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    The one piece bar and stem may save weight, but there is no way to adjust stem length or roll the bars. It's not possible that it's going to fit everyone. Scott worships at the alter of weight weenism.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    The one piece bar and stem may save weight, but there is no way to adjust stem length or roll the bars. It's not possible that it's going to fit everyone. Scott worships at the alter of weight weenism.
    Agreed but i found it works for me, it feels almost identical to Race Face Next R bars which I've ran for the last season. Might not work for everyone though. I would also guess their "50mm stem combo" that comes on the ransom is more like 40.... They also sell a 40mm version as well. If it works AND it's lighter I'm all about it. The idea of not having to mess with rolling the bars is pretty nice too.
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    I really dig what Scott does as I think they produce a highly engineered product.

    As far as the 1piece stem/ bar thing, it looks rad, but that is just impractical. I've yet to keep a bar/ stem set up stock. I'm currently on a 40mm rise Renthal with the Enve M7 35mm. Hixon doesn't have an equivalent.

    I did compare the weight of a Renthal combo to the Hixon and there was no significant weight difference but I think the Renthal was a few grams lighter as I recall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Now, now, canít we all just be Strava buddies?

    Gawd, the day I use Strava, please someone, shoot me.
    Free GPS is not something to complain about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I really dig what Scott does as I think they produce a highly engineered product.
    How many of these shocks are still working from all the iterations of this bike/concept?



    Seeing how they radically change their designs so frequently, I would say the complete opposite is true. The whole idea is just ridiculous. Two rebound circuits, ok, but no compression adjust, it's pre-set internally. WTF? Not being able to tune it and being stuck with this shock? The idea is just nuts. I have ridden scott bikes, downhill actually, and I wasn't impressed. Nothing there that I'd pay any premium for. This kind of proprietary stuff combined with changing it radically fairly rapidly is bad for the end user. It breeds the whole "disposable bikes" problem. You can't go mount up a "normal shock" when it fails, or get a suspension tuner to work on it, or anything like that, so it just becomes a heap of trash.

    I see many of their bikes more as "gimmicks". They usually try to hit one target, while many other areas are woefully under-designed. Similar to the old crank-brother's stuff, while it was very light, there were often huge reliability problems, whether we were talking about their pedals, seatpost, cranks, etc. Like the LaPierre electronic control, which locks out the suspension much of the time you want it. Just achieving a "gimmick" isn't a measure of a highly engineered product, it needs to deliver the entire game and be a great all around bike. It's more like the product that you ride and never have to think about that just seamlessly bends into your ride is the highly engineered product.
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  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    How many of these shocks are still working from all the iterations of this bike/concept?



    You can't go mount up a "normal shock" when it fails, or get a suspension tuner to work on it, or anything like that, so it just becomes a heap of trash.
    That might have been the case in the past but at least with the Ransom there is room to fit any piggyback shock you like. Anything that comes in that size trunnion mount. I know there is an X2 available now and if it's not out yet I hear there will also be a DHX2. So if you really don't like the shock, Fox stops supporting it, you want a "normal" backup, etc. It's definitely possible. There is even enough clearance for an 11-6....
    Denver, CO

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    That might have been the case in the past but at least with the Ransom there is room to fit any piggyback shock you like. Anything that comes in that size trunnion mount. I know there is an X2 available now and if it's not out yet I hear there will also be a DHX2. So if you really don't like the shock, Fox stops supporting it, you want a "normal" backup, etc. It's definitely possible. There is even enough clearance for an 11-6....
    That's good, and it appears that some of these companies, like Foes, Scott, and a few others, that did stuff so far outside the box where it was just "crazy-land", are coming back to reality with the latest designs, allowing for "any shock" or more choices. Still, that's why I eye them with a lot of skepticism and the one-off proprietary stuff really has to be questioned most of the time.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Miss the point did ya?

    Since when did I need a program to tell me where I've been? Seriously, that is a wierd perspective, kinda like an obsession...

    Don't give in to the monster, be yourself for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Free GPS is not something to complain about.

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  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Miss the point did ya?

    Since when did I need a program to tell me where I've been? Seriously, that is a wierd perspective, kinda like an obsession...

    Don't give in to the monster, be yourself for yourself.
    Just another tool in the toolbox. There's a lot of data to be gleaned from the app besides location on a map.

    Trail Care through Strava is also a keen way to donate directly to the organizations that build, maintain, and advocate for the trails where you might happen to find yourself riding.

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Miss the point did ya?

    Since when did I need a program to tell me where I've been? Seriously, that is a wierd perspective, kinda like an obsession...

    Don't give in to the monster, be yourself for yourself.
    No, I did not miss the point.

    Strava itself is not an issue. It's the guys blowing by you on the downhill when you're climbing in search of the Kom or personal best.

    Strava itself is free GPS. You can see where you've been. How long it took (to plan future rides), what trails you were near that you may have missed, and how other people ride.

    Strava itself is no more evil then a 1996 wired cycle computer... But some people who use it are 'stravassholes'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    No, I did not miss the point.

    Strava itself is not an issue. It's the guys blowing by you on the downhill when you're climbing in search of the Kom or personal best.

    Strava itself is free GPS. You can see where you've been. How long it took (to plan future rides), what trails you were near that you may have missed, and how other people ride.

    Strava itself is no more evil then a 1996 wired cycle computer... But some people who use it are 'stravassholes'.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    I use it to know how many miles are on my components. And it has a feature that you can send someone a "becon" if you ride alone. I tell my wife if i dont move for more than 20min. I might need help lol

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    I use it to know how many miles are on my components. And it has a feature that you can send someone a "becon" if you ride alone. I tell my wife if i dont move for more than 20min. I might need help lol
    For $60 a year in premium membership you also get a better (and much cheaper) insurance plan for your phone should you break it (of course while using strava). He's just parroting what he believes to be "cool" by discounting the app. In all reality if you're not a fan, you're not a fan. You wouldn't have to go around telling everyone how much it sucks, you would just not participate. Almost as bad as the "stravassholes".
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  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    For $60 a year in premium membership you also get a better (and much cheaper) insurance plan for your phone should you break it (of course while using strava). He's just parroting what he believes to be "cool" by discounting the app. In all reality if you're not a fan, you're not a fan. You wouldn't have to go around telling everyone how much it sucks, you would just not participate. Almost as bad as the "stravassholes".
    Haha reminds me of when i raced a BMW m3 it was considered a asshole car. I considered my self to be a nice logical guy. I happen to pick a decent platform to race...after a few years most of the guys who poked at me were all in e36 m3 cars lol. Tale a tool , and use it for a purpose. Dont care what others think.

  52. #352
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    Strava is responsible for low bottom brackets.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Haha reminds me of when i raced a BMW m3 it was considered a asshole car. I considered my self to be a nice logical guy. I happen to pick a decent platform to race...after a few years most of the guys who poked at me were all in e36 m3 cars lol. Tale a tool , and use it for a purpose. Dont care what others think.
    Not a strava user personally but I hear it's possible to turn off the public component of the app in order to keep one's personal data private. I mean, you know, if anybody wanted to maintain their anonymity/privacy.

    I assume stravassholes are all about strutting their performance in strava's public halls. But perhaps not everyone who uses the app fits this description.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Strava is responsible for low bottom brackets.
    Exactly. Hate one, hate the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Not a strava user personally but I hear it's possible to turn off the public component of the app in order to keep one's personal data private. I mean, you know, if anybody wanted to maintain their anonymity/privacy.

    I assume stravassholes are all about strutting their performance in strava's public halls. But perhaps not everyone who uses the app fits this description.
    =sParty
    Yeah, my Ish is private. Or I'd KOM driving home when I forget to turn it off lol.

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Strava is responsible for low bottom brackets.
    Than please give me the info for tracking miles and safety rides solo that promotes sensible BB heights. And please don't include me in the 14+ inches cult lol

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    I suspect they are reinforcing one another, chicken or egg...

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Strava is responsible for low bottom brackets.
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  58. #358
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    I remember cycling computers too, I was a roadie, but I never considered it a tool, more like a novelty

    Humans suffer from obsession with using science to improve their lives, rarely recognizing the damage it does to their lives.

    Like having five hundred channels on your TV, as if we need more ways to distract us from being human.

    Even this stoopid forum is not good for us, anonymity, spouting BS, acting out in ways that would not be socially acceptable. Do you ever wonder who and what youíre becoming.

    Going back to my comments on this thread becoming a shiteshow and how nice it was when we only had reviews on print, maybe the folks who donít remember life without high tech get it, but you can still ask yourself what you really need vs thneed.

    Meanwhile recent reports find that 95% if the oldest sea ice has melted and we got a government that refuses to acknowledge global warming, and we got folks arguing about the importance having Strava in their lives.

    So yeah, you missed the point, but thatís okay, our childrenís children will get it, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    No, I did not miss the point.

    Strava itself is not an issue. It's the guys blowing by you on the downhill when you're climbing in search of the Kom or personal best.

    Strava itself is free GPS. You can see where you've been. How long it took (to plan future rides), what trails you were near that you may have missed, and how other people ride.

    Strava itself is no more evil then a 1996 wired cycle computer... But some people who use it are 'stravassholes'.

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  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I remember cycling computers too, I was a roadie, but I never considered it a tool, more like a novelty

    Humans suffer from obsession with using science to improve their lives, rarely recognizing the damage it does to their lives.

    Like having five hundred channels on your TV, as if we need more ways to distract us from being human.

    Even this stoopid forum is not good for us, anonymity, spouting BS, acting out in ways that would not be socially acceptable. Do you ever wonder who and what youíre becoming.

    Going back to my comments on this thread becoming a shiteshow and how nice it was when we only had reviews on print, maybe the folks who donít remember life without high tech get it, but you can still ask yourself what you really need vs thneed.

    Meanwhile recent reports find that 95% if the oldest sea ice has melted and we got a government that refuses to acknowledge global warming, and we got folks arguing about the importance having Strava in their lives.

    So yeah, you missed the point, but thatís okay, our childrenís children will get it, sadly.
    ahhh hypocrisy... the human condition?
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    If I was a mod I'd close this thread.

    Since I'm not, I'll just unsub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I remember cycling computers too, I was a roadie, but I never considered it a tool, more like a novelty

    Humans suffer from obsession with using science to improve their lives, rarely recognizing the damage it does to their lives.

    Like having five hundred channels on your TV, as if we need more ways to distract us from being human.

    Even this stoopid forum is not good for us, anonymity, spouting BS, acting out in ways that would not be socially acceptable. Do you ever wonder who and what youíre becoming.

    Going back to my comments on this thread becoming a shiteshow and how nice it was when we only had reviews on print, maybe the folks who donít remember life without high tech get it, but you can still ask yourself what you really need vs thneed.

    Meanwhile recent reports find that 95% if the oldest sea ice has melted and we got a government that refuses to acknowledge global warming, and we got folks arguing about the importance having Strava in their lives.

    So yeah, you missed the point, but thatís okay, our childrenís children will get it, sadly.
    Wow. Could not imagine a better way to blow this way out of proportion.

    If this was all the "point" I "missed" then I hope to the sweet baby Jesus I keep on missing it!

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  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If I was a mod I'd close this thread.

    Since I'm not, I'll just unsub.
    The only reason I havenít is because I was waiting for my ride reports from you! Iíll take this as permission to unsub myself...

  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If I was a mod I'd close this thread.

    Since I'm not, I'll just unsub.
    Please don't, I didn't mean for it to turn into whatever the hell it did. It was such a good read before.

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  64. #364
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    Wow, I feel so small. I'm a scientist and have recorded every mountain bike ride (yes, about Streetdoctor's average of ~1000miles/year sometimes more sometimes less) I've been on since the late 1980s. For the life of me I can't understand what's wrong with data. I think Nurse Ben needs a different forum than one filled with mtn bike enthusiasts.

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If I was a mod I'd close this thread.

    Since I'm not, I'll just unsub.
    Nearly every good thread ever started on MTBR (except the ones in OC, it seems) eventually devolves into an agonizing slo-mo train wreck as the big egos, know-it-alls and socially inept jump in to inform the remainder of the universe why it's full of shit, populated by inferior morons.

    Despite the mass' need to lower expectations due to this persistent phenomenon, bright spots arrive with adequate frequency to keep many of us engaged. Mikesee's inspiring posts are consistent winners. Well, at least they start out that way.

    Keep 'em coming, Mike. Please.
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  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If I was a mod I'd close this thread.

    Since I'm not, I'll just unsub.
    I've always thought an OP should have the option to lock a thread.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I remember cycling computers too, I was a roadie, but I never considered it a tool, more like a novelty

    Humans suffer from obsession with using science to improve their lives, rarely recognizing the damage it does to their lives.

    Like having five hundred channels on your TV, as if we need more ways to distract us from being human.

    Even this stoopid forum is not good for us, anonymity, spouting BS, acting out in ways that would not be socially acceptable. Do you ever wonder who and what youíre becoming.

    Going back to my comments on this thread becoming a shiteshow and how nice it was when we only had reviews on print, maybe the folks who donít remember life without high tech get it, but you can still ask yourself what you really need vs thneed.

    Meanwhile recent reports find that 95% if the oldest sea ice has melted and we got a government that refuses to acknowledge global warming, and we got folks arguing about the importance having Strava in their lives.

    So yeah, you missed the point, but thatís okay, our childrenís children will get it, sadly.
    I really hope that you use tools generated by science on your patients, since I think it's hard to argue that it improves their lives.

    If you really want to strip away everything that it is to be modern, then it would take us back to survival of the fittest. A more modern day corollary to surviving in the wild is probably competition, aka, sports. Strava is a proxy for competition. Ergo Strava does more to connect us to our roots than most modern things, such as medicine, plumbing, agriculture, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    ahhh hypocrisy... the human condition?
    Or, yeah, just this.

  68. #368
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    Nah, I think we all just need to remember the rest of the world once in a while and recognize how privileged we are as we complain about our first world problems.

    MTBR is not my first bulletin board rodeo... but what I find interesting about these anonymous forums is just how little we know about each other, and yet we assume a great deal about a person nonetheless.

    What do people know about me? Am I really a nurse? Am I even human?

    I am a nurse practitioner among many other things, but not so sure about the human thing

    Consider making one of your gifts this year to a local cause like a food bank or a shelter.

    Edit: so I just got told I was on a high horse, that I should talk mountain bikes/mountain biking... not sure this thread has been talking about biking for a while now, but I'll do my best. I love bikes and biking, it's literally my favorite thing to do and talk about, but this thread is really not a good reflection of the things I like about biking, which is why I tried to swing things back to a more outward looking view on the world.

    To me Starva is really the antithesis of why I ride bikes. I think if you looked at the OP's writings, pictures, lifestyle, and reviews, you'd see that Mike has a lot to offer, just maybe not the tune that everyone wants to hear. So I guess the same goes for my thoughts about the rest of the world.

    Happy Holidays!

    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Wow, I feel so small. I'm a scientist and have recorded every mountain bike ride (yes, about Streetdoctor's average of ~1000miles/year sometimes more sometimes less) I've been on since the late 1980s. For the life of me I can't understand what's wrong with data. I think Nurse Ben needs a different forum than one filled with mtn bike enthusiasts.
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  69. #369
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    P.S. I was serious about giving to those who are in need, tis the season
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  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeranzin View Post
    I really hope that you use tools generated by science on your patients, since I think it's hard to argue that it improves their lives.

    If you really want to strip away everything that it is to be modern, then it would take us back to survival of the fittest.
    Isn't this something of a false dichotomy?
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  71. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Isn't this something of a false dichotomy?
    That's what I first thought, but it's incidental. He's actually setting up a clever point:

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeranzin View Post
    A more modern day corollary to surviving in the wild is probably competition, aka, sports. Strava is a proxy for competition. Ergo Strava does more to connect us to our roots than most modern things, such as medicine, plumbing, agriculture, etc.
    Then those with a more romantic view would suggest cycling can offer something more satisfying and meaningful than mere animalistic competition, and that the competitive element necessarily undermines this. Back and forth, to the soundtrack of Rush: Hemispheres.
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  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryder1 View Post
    Then those with a more romantic view would suggest cycling can offer something more satisfying and meaningful than mere animalistic competition, and that the competitive element necessarily undermines this.
    What is this "something" that's more satisfying and meaningful than competition?

    The first thing to come to my mind, is harmony. The peace and harmony that is fleeting, due to change. Experiencing a moment that won't exactly exist ever again, sort of giving you a feeling of being alive in a certain time period, thanks to the relative isolation of pressures (signs of the flow of time/change) around you.

    Speaking of animalistic traits, complacency is an animalistic trait of the Dodo and businesses (and people) that don't adapt to markets with changing demands.

    Can I assume that wishing things didn't change at such a disturbing pace is a romantic view? Nostalgia of simpler times comes to my mind, when we were experiencing some of the latest and greatest changes introduced in that era, without competition making it feel obsolete in under 5 years. Things seemed to really ramp up these past 10 years, and in the late 90s.

    If there's something better than competition, I'm genuinely curious to know. Maybe it can be a "tick-tock" system where competition is promoted for one period, and complacency (or refined efficiency) is promoted for another, to create a non-stagnant harmonious balance.
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  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It's comical how low the BBs have gotten, to the point where you can't "relax" at all and drop a pedal slightly, because you'll snag it, possibly ejecting you, breaking pedals/cranks, etc. The handling is nice at times, but this new feature gets old at times too when the edge of the trail is hard to see and obscured by weeds and the such. Climbing and you go over a relatively small root and your pedal bangs it and you are saying "wtf?, that root was only 2" high!?".
    ^^^^^^^this

    And my once technical climbing trails have been groomed out because of it. It makes me sad.

  74. #374
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    I'm not a fan of the low bb either and don't need it to help me turn. Makes sense for some I guess. And historically, 29rs have been harder to rail a turn than bikes with shorter wheelbases and smaller wheels. It's quite interesting how much frame design and performance has changed for wagon wheel bikes.

    And for the most part on both my short travel 29r and long travel 27.5 I've been happy with a 125mm dropper. Even in Sedona on trails with steep, technical slickrock moves like HiLine and Hangover. That is, until I did the Grand Targhee Enduro last summer and on two of the DH segments where I was pretty much hanging on for survival I found myself lowering my seat in addition to the dropper. 150mm seems like a good balance to me but now I can see why some might prefer or need a 170.

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryder1 View Post
    That's what I first thought, but it's incidental. He's actually setting up a clever point:



    Then those with a more romantic view would suggest cycling can offer something more satisfying and meaningful than mere animalistic competition, and that the competitive element necessarily undermines this. Back and forth, to the soundtrack of Rush: Hemispheres.
    You had me with the Rush reference.
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  76. #376
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    LOL at this thread.

    "I like Strava"
    "But whatabout whatabout whatabout global warming?!"

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    What is this "something" that's more satisfying and meaningful than competition? [...] If there's something better than competition, I'm genuinely curious to know.
    Depends on the rider, but I think a strong argument can be made that riding can promote "higher" pleasures than the stoke of competition, whether it's social, familial, adventure, Flow, or just plain fun.

    Even if you subscribe to that argument, you'll need to contend with the counterpoints: [1] These pleasures aren't mutually exclusive to a spirit of competition; [2] Racing can promote Flow and peak experiences; and [3] Strava doesn't necessarily have to introduce a competitive element. Good points!

    I lean toward the romantic point of view, and do think there's an insidious creep of technology that's burdening our consciousness and eroding our humanity (look at the data on younger millennials). Yet I don't think there's a clear right or wrong as to Strava/racing. People are wired differently and will naturally seek out those experiences that they can readily access within themselves.
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  78. #378
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    Does a bicycle improve your life?

    It does to mine.

    Whether or not you record the usage seems irrelevant to me...but I'm not you.

    In addition, mountain bicycles with longer head tubes and bigger tires have made my life better too...in addition to meeting Mikesee...

    I know people who don't record their rides...they're just irrelevant humans too, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I remember cycling computers too, I was a roadie, but I never considered it a tool, more like a novelty

    Humans suffer from obsession with using science to improve their lives, rarely recognizing the damage it does to their lives.

  79. #379
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    Strava, much like a bike, is a tool. It's usefulness or lack thereof is all in how it's used.

    Any idea when the review of all the bikes that mikesee OP'd about is gonna hit?
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  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisFu View Post

    Any idea when the review of all the bikes that mikesee OP'd about is gonna hit?
    What I was gonna ask, been looking for it...

    Interesting thread!!! hope it's not closed myself.

    Thanks!
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  81. #381
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    This thread began with an homage to 29 plus wheels. I sure hope they become a little more popular. I set up a Sno-4 Chinese frame with 29 x 3.0 wheels/ tires (couple years ago) in the summer. I mostly use it as an access bike when we are doing trail building a mile or more out on unfinished trails. The bike goes over just about anything. Most people who see the bike say, what the hell is that? But after taking it for a spin most people say that was the most fun they had on a mountain bike in a long time. The problem with fat bike 29 plus application is the huge Q factor. Anyhow, Just saying I would enjoy seeing some 29 plus fs bikes come on the market with a more normal Q factor to see how the bikes would fare.

  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    The problem with fat bike 29 plus application is the huge Q factor. Anyhow, Just saying I would enjoy seeing some 29 plus fs bikes come on the market with a more normal Q factor to see how the bikes would fare.
    I'm not sure how that's any kind of problem, except in people's heads. When I transition to my fatbike, it feels strange for a bit, then it feels normal. In the spring, when I go back to skinny-tire bikes, the skinny Q factor feels real strange, then after a bit it feels normal. There will always a a few where it doesn't work for them, but by and large this is not a problem.
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  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    This thread began with an homage to 29 plus wheels. I sure hope they become a little more popular. I set up a Sno-4 Chinese frame with 29 x 3.0 wheels/ tires (couple years ago) in the summer. I mostly use it as an access bike when we are doing trail building a mile or more out on unfinished trails. The bike goes over just about anything. Most people who see the bike say, what the hell is that? But after taking it for a spin most people say that was the most fun they had on a mountain bike in a long time. The problem with fat bike 29 plus application is the huge Q factor. Anyhow, Just saying I would enjoy seeing some 29 plus fs bikes come on the market with a more normal Q factor to see how the bikes would fare.
    I don't own a 29+ bike but I was convinced about a year and a half ago when I tried 27.5+. There's fun to be had there but I believe there's lots more fun to be had with 29+. This will be my next bike.

    The discipline of mountain biking is a tiny slice of a much larger pie -- off-road vehicles. Our slice happens to be two wheeled and human powered -- both aspects of our sport that I love. (I'm not knocking motorized off-road vehicles -- I own a dirt bike have owned lifted 4WD trucks, too.)

    But we're talking off-road, human-powered cycling here. What is the ideal configuration for such a vehicle? Much debate surrounds this question and the "right" answer depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is personal preference. That said, I can't name another off-road discipline that employs skinny, small diameter wheels.

    I don't think our sport is nearly finished with finding ways to have fun and optimize equipment. Meanwhile we sure are having fun, aren't we. I'm going to try 29+ one of these days. It seems for every rider who says it's no good, there are a couple dozen that say it is.
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