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  1. #1
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    When will Europe see the light?

    Europe is still anti-29er.. Like everything else (fashion, music,movies, and other cool things) they're usually 10 years behind the US. But they're really missing the boat on the 29er fad. Come on Europe, catch up, you've got a few manufacturers I'd love to see building 29ers, but due to lack of demand over there it's not going to happen for a while.

    In case you're listening, I'd like to see some more carbon HT 29er's....
    Draft College Republicans

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    Sounds like a great excuse for WW-III. We need to liberate them again.

  3. #3
    Having a nice day!
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    When they stop dominating races on 26" bikes?

  4. #4
    Recovering couch patato
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    29" EU, sure, way behind US.
    But FASHION...you may want to reconsider that mention :-) Perhaps the US walked in all-jeans or stretch suits long before us. Then, yes.
    MUSIC: all classics were composed in EU, Britpop, Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden. We're catching on that Country thing more slowly, yes. Hiphop, maybe. And the new R&B we never fully embraced.

    I see little progress here in Holland, although we had a 29"er catch a national -23 title back in 2004 already. Alu frame, Pace 26" rigid fork, Nano tires. Since, it's been "uncool".

    Cycling is a stupid market all over the world. In the world of the blind, Cyclops is king. I'll hand that to the US, they have one eye wide open, and getting the most out of it. Mostly thanks to Fisher of course, for putting everything on the line getting these bikes out there, and not letting down. G2 and carbon are the last missing links. The rest of the US bike market is just copying Fisher as well as they can without it being to obvious. Coming back from previous statement (Rocky Mountain, Specialized).
    Like a small group of hooligans can really mess up the mood at a spot game (US is way behind with hooligans), a few daring innovators made the difference for 29" in the US. MTBR has a huge share here, I'm sure. MTBR readers are innovators.
    Last edited by Cloxxki; 12-19-2008 at 07:10 AM.

  5. #5
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    In the world of he blind, Cyclops is king.
    In the world of the blind, vision is a decease that needs to be cured, so that it does not interfere with the truly useful senses....

  6. #6
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    In Norway 29ers is alle the rage. At least for the people at terrengsykkel.no (mtbr eq).
    It might be because were so tall and all.

    But were not members of the EU so maybe were not in Europe, and also Norway is the capitol of Sweden Im told.

    Right..

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rearviewmirror
    Europe is still anti-29er.. Like everything else (fashion, music,movies, and other cool things) they're usually 10 years behind the US. But they're really missing the boat on the 29er fad. Come on Europe, catch up, you've got a few manufacturers I'd love to see building 29ers, but due to lack of demand over there it's not going to happen for a while.

    In case you're listening, I'd like to see some more carbon HT 29er's....

    Get over it. People ride bikes and enjoy it. It doesn't matter what they ride. I happen to ride a 29er - but it wouldn't be the end of the world if i didn't. In uk On-one and Singular both make nice 29ers anyway. Just because US is 'taken' to the 29er does not mean everyone else should - perhaps European manufacturers are amking bikes that work well in Europe?!

  8. #8
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    No idea about Europe at large

    But in Italy it is starting to gain a bit of popularity. There are a few shops that sell Niners and a few that sell the Felts. So access is not so much the issue it was two or three years ago. I also spoke with the Italian Cannondale rep and he said that they didn't want to import 29ers because they had just not seen the interest.

    One of the biggest problems for the folks across the pond is not so much not wanting to ride 29ers but access to tires, forks and rims.

    There is the online retailer in Holland, http://www.singlespeed.nl/ , and racewear in Italy, but other than that I don't think there are any readily available parts in Europe. Maybe in Great Britain, but not on the main land. Plus don't forget, every part they buy is at least 20% more here than there.

    Crisp Titanium and Zullo frames are the only two custom builders I know of who actually build 29ers on a regular basis for people, I know Germanns in Heidelberg has, but not a normal request.

    Then, as I have observed, the whole deal that people above 6 foot don't ride much over here. At 6'2" tall I normally tower over 99% of the starters at most of my races. 26 inch wheels may be more the norm as the riders are, for the most part, a bit shorter.

    Jelle, Cloxxki and some of the other Hollanders excluded of course.

    Lastly is the aversion to change. Most of the guys I ride with have put lots of Euros into their current bikes. Mostly 5x5 or so all mountain bikes. They don't want to ride a hard tail with big wheels. The Italians and Germans have fully embraced suspension and really don't want to go back. Maybe with Niner getting more of their bikes over here for the Europeans to demo the demand may pick up. Not many people I know can afford and Lenzsport frame.

    Just how I see it, having lived and ridden in Italy for two years and Germany the three prior to that. Ed


    Totally forgot about On one and Singular in England, sorry, but they are few and far between here. Both make nice bikes that are affordable but neither make a fully to the best of my knowledge.

  9. #9
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    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rearviewmirror
    Europe is still anti-29er.. Like everything else (fashion, music,movies, and other cool things) they're usually 10 years behind the US.
    Fashion? Paris, Milan and NY are the leaders. Music? Rap perhaps, but certainly not in any other category except perhaps Americana. Movies? Laughable, unless you consider Spiderman 3 high art.

    But as far as 29ers go, perhaps you are right.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  11. #11
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    In France it's growing slowly.
    Parts are available. Alternative-bicycles.fr does a really great job with Surly and Salsa.
    French parts like mavic c29ssmax, Michelin AT (made in asia), Hutchinson Python & Toro, are available in shop, but mostly on order.
    Cannondale 29 and specialized 29 are since this year available on order without problem. They are on the catalogs.
    Gary fisher is available since 2 years, but Trek is much bigger here.

    29" are strong among the singlespeeders. They are now catching for the high end XC racers, especially the road guys that are not so technical on a MTB, and that love the secure feeling.

    Next step would be to have one of our French brand work on a model, Lapierre, Commencal, Sunn, we will see who will be the first.
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  12. #12
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    Germany will come - for sure

    In the german speaking countries Germany, Austria and Switzerland there is a small community which is growing bigger and bigger and bigger. There are two forums like this and that

    The point is, that the two leading Mountainbike Magazines still think the 29er are no more than just trekking bikes. We need people racing and winning on 29er bikes but unfortunately even if the UCI allows 29ers on the races the german BDR does not allow them. So for the example, on a World Cup Race in Germany racers woud be allowed to race on 29ers but not on a german cahmpionship that would be organized from BDR. At least you can run a 29er on 24h races or marathons that are not officially organized by the BDR.

    I am sure, the 29er movement will come to us with a little delay. The first shops here a getting started with selling 29er bikes like Alpha Bikes or a tire shop called radlreifen. The guy who runs radlreifen is a nice one and selling throughout europe.

    I bet, after the season 2009 the peeple over here will rethink the whole thing and even sell NINER bikes here which I think are the best

    We will do our very best

  13. #13
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    EUROPEANS ARE BLOODY IGNORANT AND STUPID.
    It's obvious, they have a smaller brain, so they like smaller things!
    Just compare American an European cars and you will see:


    USA:

    GREAT!

    EUROPE:

    RIDICULOUS!
    Not westauwant, westauwant!

  14. #14
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    29er awareness it is slowly growing in Germany, I notice that in various classifieds people are now explicitly listing stating that tires/wheels etc are 26" vs 28"/29"/700c. My perception was that MTB wheels/tires/frames were by default 26" around 2003, and you did not have to mention wheel size. Now it is more common to see people differentiate the wheel size, I guess due to more exposure to options. Hell, even 650B is slowly starting to creep into postings on various forums.

    But the customs tax is way crazy...

  15. #15
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    Yeah, taxes are kinda high, we really need european manufacturers to start pushing big wheel mountain frames, not just hybrids.

    Here in Romania most people just buy whatever second hand bike they can afford, not many know about these things. We have a lot of catching up to do, sadly... however the small community of connaisseurs is very innovation oriented, much like mtbr, and 29ers get very curious looks at races, everyone wants to try them out.

    And in my group of riders, a decent proportion has 29ers... Kona, Felt, Specialized FSR... I was the first to see the light, started out with a hybrid fitted with 2.1 tyres and rigid carbon fork, now building a ht dillinger, converting the hybrid to a ss monstercross, and hopefully in the next 2 years i'll build up a 5+ stable, all with big wheels, so i can help more friends ride the new wave and see what it's all about.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68point5
    EUROPEANS ARE BLOODY IGNORANT AND STUPID.
    It's obvious, they have a smaller brain, so they like smaller things!
    Uhm... are you kidding, aren't you?

    If you are talking seriously, your nick must be your IQ. In that case, everything is explained.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Root
    Uhm... are you kidding, aren't you?....
    Ummmm, try reading his profile...he's out of Germany and really thinks a Smart Car is smart

  18. #18
    local trails rider
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    I hear big cars are not selling too well right now....

    edit:
    I am in Northern Europe and have ridden with a few guys who were on 29ers. The bikes were not holding them back. The gear is available, but you probably need to buy stuff online if you want something very specific.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68point5
    EUROPEANS ARE BLOODY IGNORANT AND STUPID.
    It's obvious, they have a smaller brain, so they like smaller things!
    Just compare American an European cars and you will see:


    USA:

    GREAT!

    EUROPE:

    RIDICULOUS!

    Yes the american cars are bigger, but the germans have no money problems

    and teh other great thing are, gernman guys can drive her cars with no limit on the streets and you can drive only very slow ha ha ha,
    and also we need no own bank that we can fill the cars with gasoline

  20. #20
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    Utterly rediculous

    I bet you think Palin is hot too.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    ...The gear is available, but you probably need to buy stuff online if you want something very specific.
    I live in Chicago, there's no 29er stuff at the LBS. All of my 29er stuff comes via mail order. Maybe that's one reason 29er are more popular here, we have a really good mail order set-up and no sales tax that promotes us using on-line vendors.

  22. #22
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    Wait a minute!! Our forefathers worked so hard to throw England out of here and now we're going to share our 29ers with them?? My ancestors are rolling over in their graves as we speak.
    I like turtles

  23. #23
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    Obama

    I think they're just waiting for Bush to leave. As soon as Obama is inaugurated all the Euros will be riding 29ers.

  24. #24
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter
    we have a really good mail order set-up and no sales tax that promotes us using on-line vendors.
    Oh, I have no difficulties ordering stuff from Germany or UK, or where ever in EU. Works very well. Had to go for a US dealer to get stiffer springs for my Manitou fork... No problems there either.

  25. #25
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    BDR must really be a bunch of changophoic morons.

    KNWU, after seeing cross bikes in some of our lamest MTB races 2004-2005 or so, tried to do the same. They got a proposal silently through all the required regional colleges, before I heard of it. A few weeks later, the rule was to use at least 40mm wide tires for MTB races, regardless of 26"/29" :-)
    Cross bikes don't fit big tires, and if it's got big tires, it's an MTB, and the KNWU agreed.

    For what it's worth, yours truly anticipated the use of cross bikes in MTB races, and it's controvercy. I sent a letter to the responsible at the UCI in 2003, when they had invited Gary Fisher to explain the matter. UCI had been wondering what to do about those 29" bikes on the market, and whether it's not countersportsmanship to ban its owners from races.
    UCI's old rule "wheels no larger than 26 inches in diamter" was faulty to begin with. Using the popular denomination of the wheelsize, rather than the technical one, and turning it into a rule. But not only that, making the rule state it as a maximum size. With the UCI's feeling for logic, it could have flipped the other way, and ended up a minimal wheel size. These bike-ignorant Swisses really are messing up the market with their rules.
    But about the stupid old rule. Measure any 26" bikes tires, as used in XC competition. Show me a wheelset ridden to victory at high level, with less than or exacty 26.00" diameter at the tire. Good luck. They're all bigger, so the "minimum" rule WOULD have made more sense!
    Did I mention how stupid swiss bike government is, and about those Germans? Dutch were just as stupid, but yours truly and some coorperative professionals didn't let them. I was a racer back then, and most certainly not about to buy a 26" to be able to take part in races again.
    The initiator of the 26" ruling reinstatement had omitted to investigate whether any 29" bike owners might be the victim of their love for the true character of the sport.

    Right now, in Holland CX bikes are to have <35mm tires, MTB's >40mm.

  26. #26
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    they are no dummies...

    the troll killer has spent a lot of time in the us and europe. the troll killer is certain the euros and pommies have just been biding their time until 650b wheels came back into fashion (dominance?) before abandoning 26ers all together and exacting their revenge on the states for "inventing" the 29er by going full 650b.

    hell, most euros don't even know what an inch is; why would they want 29 of them? in fact the troll killer thinks the 29er may never be adopted in europe specifically because its so american. 650b on the other hand has a long established history in europe and they know what it is, no one there asks "what is 650b?".

    Un bacio,

    tk
    Keeping the 650B forum hater free ever since 2008!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    Oh, I have no difficulties ordering stuff from Germany or UK, or where ever in EU. Works very well....
    - I know the parcel delivery is much better here compared to Europe.
    - Mail order culture in US further along compared to Europe. My co-workers in England, France, Germany and Italy use mail order very rarely.
    - No VAT/Tax for mail order in US.

    If it's not mail order issues, any ideas on what it is?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar
    When they stop dominating races on 26" bikes?
    Ha! Nice.

  29. #29
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    Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here.......

    First of all, I think it is great to hear about the 29"er stuff in Europe. Cool!

    Secondly, I keep track of stats on my blogs and I have seen links coming from the U.K., Netherlands, France, and oddly enough, a lot of hits from Spain. There seems to be at least one small group of enthusiasts located there.

    I saw the post here about Niners in italy. There are some distributors there that really feel that 29"ers are going to take off in Italia. I know there is a Salsa distributor and one other brand that I can't recall at the moment that are really into 29"ers.

    So, to the point: I think that Europeans will eventually catch on and are catching on to 29"ers. Will it be a market in size comparable to the North American market? Maybe.

    I think it is fun and exciting to see it grow there though, and I am betting it will get bigger than it is for sure as a movement.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukram
    Yes the american cars are bigger, but the germans have no money problems

    and teh other great thing are, gernman guys can drive her cars with no limit on the streets and you can drive only very slow ha ha ha,
    and also we need no own bank that we can fill the cars with gasoline
    dream on ... 2009 you will have a rude awakening ...

    Back to topic:
    To me it doesn't matter which wheelsize or car people prefer, but it is funny to see the missionary eagerness of many 29er riders ...

    John Lennon sang:
    "Whatever gets you through the ride - 'salright, 'salright"
    Not westauwant, westauwant!

  31. #31
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    I think Europeans do some things really well. They are passionate about beer and spirits, have nicer cars, their women are very, very nice, and they've embraced hockey.

    But what's with that silly sport with the round ball? Dear God, I'd rather watch NCAA bowling...

  32. #32

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clink
    Get over it. People ride bikes and enjoy it. It doesn't matter what they ride. I happen to ride a 29er - but it wouldn't be the end of the world if i didn't. In uk On-one and Singular both make nice 29ers anyway. Just because US is 'taken' to the 29er does not mean everyone else should - perhaps European manufacturers are amking bikes that work well in Europe?!

    I don't care what they ride over there, I just want to motivate some of the Euro bike makers to get on the 29er bandwagon, even if they ship 100% of them to us.
    Draft College Republicans

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68point5
    dream on ... 2009 you will have a rude awakening ...

    Back to topic:
    To me it doesn't matter which wheelsize or car people prefer, but it is funny to see the missionary eagerness of many 29er riders ...

    John Lennon sang:
    "Whatever gets you through the ride - 'salright, 'salright"

    we must not dream, thats fact

    you can hope 2009 that you will have a home and don´t must leave on the street


    and why are the best cars come from germany??? the american guys can not build great cars called porsche mercedes bmw. drive your big blocks

  35. #35
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    let's not forget that it took awhile for mountain bikes in general to catch on in europe and then they insisted on doing it their own way which in itself led to many innovations that we consider normal now including semi slick tires, disc brakes and long travel single crown forks.

    When europe gets up to speed they will redefine 29ers. Whether they are successful will be interesting to watch.
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  36. #36
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    I think here in Europe manufactures from other countries are waiting for the Germans to start and then others will follow in a flood.
    Until then I'm trying my best to get my hands on one of this (brand new for 2009):

    http://www.duratec.cz/en/modely/mtb-...ain-c1-29inch/

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukram
    Quote Originally Posted by 68point5
    Originally Posted by 68point5
    dream on ... 2009 you will have a rude awakening ...

    Back to topic:
    To me it doesn't matter which wheelsize or car people prefer, but it is funny to see the missionary eagerness of many 29er riders ...

    John Lennon sang:
    "Whatever gets you through the ride - 'salright, 'salright"
    we must not dream, thats fact

    you can hope 2009 that you will have a home and don´t must leave on the street


    and why are the best cars come from germany??? the american guys can not build great cars called porsche mercedes bmw. drive your big blocks
    This is priceless, sukram is bagging on a fellow German pretending to bag on Europeans... coincidently 68point5 rides a 29er with fenders (my attempt to steer this back towards bikes)

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    and oddly enough, a lot of hits from Spain. There seems to be at least one small group of enthusiasts located there.
    this has to be us at foromtb.es (Spanish mtbr) Ted. People interested in singlespeeding in the Spanish interweb use to share thoughts in the vintage section of foromtb.es. We haven´t been able yet to convince foromtb.es administrators to create a specific SS forum but we happily share our space with the vintage guys. With singlespeeds came 29ers and slowly this new trend is gaining momentum in Spain. Is difficult to get 29er parts here. He rely in online distributors like singlespeed.nl alternative bicycles etc. You can get full bikes from the spanish salsa dealer. I know the kona dealer will get you their 29er models... You can also get custom titanium frames from Spanish builder Amaro. Check out the Amaro Belluci the 29er he built for Josef Ajfram, a Spanish ultraman to be raced in the Titans Desert a multiday endurance race that takes place near the Sahara desert.
    Ted, keep your blog as informative and helpfull as always, we really liked your drop bar explanations.
    I´ve been enjoying the big wheels since this summer on this nice Waltworks:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  39. #39
    local trails rider
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    And the German guys who made my 26er steel frame have designed this for one of the mail order shops:



    edit: replaced pic link
    Last edited by perttime; 12-19-2008 at 10:31 AM.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    And the German guys who made my 26er steel frame have designed this for one of the mail order shops:
    same pic on imageshack if blogspot doesn't work for you (id didn't for me at first, for some reason): https://img82.imageshack.us/img82/84...90172a1gt9.jpg

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by troll killer
    the troll killer has spent a lot of time in the us and europe. the troll killer is certain the euros and pommies have just been biding their time until 650b wheels came back into fashion (dominance?) before abandoning 26ers all together and exacting their revenge on the states for "inventing" the 29er by going full 650b.

    hell, most euros don't even know what an inch is; why would they want 29 of them? in fact the troll killer thinks the 29er may never be adopted in europe specifically because its so american. 650b on the other hand has a long established history in europe and they know what it is, no one there asks "what is 650b?".

    Un bacio,

    tk

    as if europeans, continental anyway, willingly decided on standards such as 25.4mm??? seriously, less than half a milimeter? why would they do that? oh, that's right, it's an inch. they don't really seem to be complaining too much about seatpost, handlebar and headset measuring standards. i think they're fully capable of grasping the concept of 736.6

  42. #42
    Orbea USA
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    ahem



    World's first carbon HT 29er -- from Spain.
    Last edited by TrekFurthur; 12-20-2008 at 08:25 AM.
    http://www.orbea-usa.com
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekFurthur


    World's first carbon HT 29er -- from Spain.
    Spanish bike made for the American market... I haven´t seen any of those around here in Spain... most probably a great percentage of them go to the US.
    Give one to Absalon and make him race on one... and you will see all the fast xc guys here jumping in the 29er bandwagon.
    BTW, really nice to see Orbea-USA supporting Jay Petervary.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by troll killer
    hell, most euros don't even know what an inch is; why would they want 29 of them? in fact the troll killer thinks the 29er may never be adopted in europe specifically because its so american. 650b on the other hand has a long established history in europe and they know what it is, no one there asks "what is 650b?".
    We should have forced the inch, pound, dyne on them right after WWII when us and the Brits were running things

  45. #45
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter
    We should have forced the inch, pound, dyne on them right after WWII when us and the Brits were running things
    i had never heard of a dyne(except as maybe dynometer) before, so i looked it up. looks pretty metric to me:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyne

  46. #46
    fux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefoten
    In Norway 29ers is alle the rage. At least for the people at terrengsykkel.no (mtbr eq).
    It might be because were so tall and all.

    But were not members of the EU so maybe were not in Europe, and also Norway is the capitol of Sweden Im told.

    Right..
    Fun Fact time.

    A whopping 20% of all 2008 Superflies were sold in Norway. A country that only has a population of just over 4.5 mill.

    I dont think size has anything to do with it though.

    Loads of short bikers in Norway riding 29`ers.
    Disclaimer. I now sell bicycles and bicycle tyres.

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  47. #47
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    Here’s something else for you to consider, when will US brands see the light and start selling their 29ers in the UK? Specialized, Felt, Cannondale and others only sell a minute number of 29ers in the UK or none at all.

    It’s much more complicated than a simple choice of wheel size as any clever person knows. Would I buy a SS Singular Swift 29er with 80mm fork or would I buy a SS Singular Hummingbird 26er with 120mm fork? That’s a complicated decision when the Hummingbird rode better and with big tires and with the longer travel fork it was smoother but the Swift was better at gliding over horse ruined trails. I’ll get a 29er when I’m faced with a choice of bikes and the 29er truly surpasses the 26er in enough respects and when I can actually get the bike I want in the UK. I’ve nothing against 29ers BTW and keep seeing a few round here, mostly Singular, On One, Gary Fisher and Kona.
    Last edited by EGF168; 12-19-2008 at 02:58 PM.

  48. #48
    CB2
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    No fan of luxury SUV's, but let see how a Smart Car fares on the jobsite.

    I still have room for my 29'er in the backseat too.

  49. #49
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    let's keep this less political and more bicycle....ok?

    thanks.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by raposu
    this has to be us at foromtb.es (Spanish mtbr) Ted. People interested in singlespeeding in the Spanish interweb use to share thoughts in the vintage section of foromtb.es. We haven´t been able yet to convince foromtb.es administrators to create a specific SS forum but we happily share our space with the vintage guys. With singlespeeds came 29ers and slowly this new trend is gaining momentum in Spain. Is difficult to get 29er parts here. He rely in online distributors like singlespeed.nl alternative bicycles etc. You can get full bikes from the spanish salsa dealer. I know the kona dealer will get you their 29er models... You can also get custom titanium frames from Spanish builder Amaro. Check out the Amaro Belluci the 29er he built for Josef Ajfram, a Spanish ultraman to be raced in the Titans Desert a multiday endurance race that takes place near the Sahara desert.
    Ted, keep your blog as informative and helpfull as always, we really liked your drop bar explanations.
    I´ve been enjoying the big wheels since this summer on this nice Waltworks:

    Yes! It is you guys! Hello and well met.

    That Amaro Belluci has a carbon German Answer fork on it I see. I wonder how that rides. Intriguing looking fork there.

    Thanks for the kind words. Not much 29"er stuff happening on my blog lately with all of this snow, but I'll see what I can do!
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  51. #51
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    MTB Jereusalem

    super technical
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  52. #52
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    Hi,

    as Guitar Ted has said and raposu has explained, we are a few, but hey, here we are!

    Talking about the spanish market, that I know well, here definitively is very hard to find 29er stuff, if not impossible. Even for buying a tire or an inner tube, for example, we have to go to foreign on-line shops, because in most (maybe all of them) LBS the only answer you can obtain if you ask about 29er specific parts is a nice WTF...

    Sometimes is simply an ignorance problem. Fortunately Internet (forums like that, blogs like GT runs, among other sources) is helping out to spread the big wheels virus among us, here in Spain. In fact, I think my first message in MTBR was in this section and today I've just almost finished my first 29er... and for sure, and I hope so, not the last one. Pictures soon.

    Give us a little more time. Even the sunlight takes 8 minutes to get here.

    Greetings from Spain.

  53. #53
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    hmmm

    maybe things are working a bit different over here


    maybe peple ride their bikes more than hanging around in forums

    usually people dont talk that much of what they are doing .....

    things are sometimes growing a bit slower but maybe they last for a longer time

    there is maybe a lot to do here but
    i think there is potential for much more bikes (all kind of) to be sold in europe
    in the end we maybe have soon some more 29ers than you in the states

    there is not one bike markte like in the states , every country has his own market wich works different people are often not much interessted what is happening on the other side ot the border .....

    al these things have good and bad sides ....

    forums

    http://www.twentyniner.ch/forum/ german/english/french
    http://twentyniner.free.fr/phpBB2/ french

    ....

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    i live in croatia(borders with italy), and only 29er i've seen are from kona.first was some scandium based one(expensive),now there are 3 hardtails and hei hei models.those ht kahunas are nicely priced(with 30% off) but u buy one of these and later worry about spare parts!i think not.i would really like to ride 29er rather than 26er but online ordering with bigger prices is out of the question and somewhat difficult....so, maybe ill buy caldera or other 26er for now

  56. #56
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    Here's my part. Well over in central europe, almost no-one carries stuff for 29ers. Importers when challenged reply like
    "No sooner shall we start importing till our clients- shops start asking us for relevant parts"
    Clients, in turn, say that they'll not buy a 29er sisnce no part is at large, and buying overseas is cumbersome.
    A vivious circle
    Whos gonna make the first step? The frustrated customers collecting signatures on petition to the authorities to sanction 29ers or what- come on OR importrs wantng to promote something new.
    It seems that there are very few online stores carrying something 29erish.

  57. #57
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    If you want to do your part, keep asking for stuff more and more... possibly through official channels with a paper trail, or emails that get stored/reviewed. When you go into your lbs and you ask the sales guy about 29er stuff, don't be content with a simple "no" from a low level employee, try and speak with the manager too. Also, when you buy stuff from online stores, make sure you let them know that you would have bought other stuff if they had it.

    i've been bothering chainreaction for a while to start building 29er wheels and to stock longer spokes... they finally said that they should have some 29er length dt champion and competition in stock soon. i'll build my next pair of wheels with them just to give them business, they were the only place where i found mavic 29er rims in stock the last time.

  58. #58
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB2
    let see how a Smart Car fares on the jobsite.
    Who said that people in Europe haul construction supplies in Smarts?

    If you feel that bigger is always better, you could go Australian style. Great for getting around town, I'm sure The Smart should be pretty handy for parking in crowded streets.

    Horses for courses, I say.
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  59. #59
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    What is Monterosa up to with their geometries?
    S and M are the same (long) bikes.
    The XL seems to be longer than the longest XL I've seen before, with a 19" seat tube?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  60. #60
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    I'm actually with DC on this.
    Fundamental in the European bicycle bizz it that we take the "business" stance of "we only sell what customers ask for".
    Then, they get irritated if customers actually start asking for a different wheelsize, because they (consumers) are quite convinced they'll like the ride. Manufacturers will say they see no future for such a thing, and that's it.

    The German Trek/Gary Fisher distributor, a powerful company, has been opposed from the start. They keep waiting for the demand, and only bring some 29"ers to Eurobike because there's dealers from other companies shopping there as well, and it's the season's opener.

    Europeans BIke Bizz is looking for sales, not a beter bike. But, they're inconsistent with it. Disc brakes, suspension, they're all pushing that up the market's throats, but something as simple as a corrected wheelsize that will make everything better, they won't push, or even support that.


    Riders are similar "I'm not going to ride that, it's ugly. furthermore, the wheels are big, so it won't turn". All such kinds of unfounded prejudices which they'll work against their own riding experience.

    Americans will rather say "For real a funny looking contraption, but I'm counting 2 wheels, which makes it a bike in my book, and as a bike rider I'm definately going to ride it to satisfy my curiosity."
    The ride-what-you-brung mentality in American bike racing, partly perhaps due to the cycling sport being so utterly irrelevant in the great scheme of American sport, does promote to use find the best bike for the job, not just the universally accepted best bike, in your favorite color.

    Beats me why it's taken Americans so long to see the point of compact sport saloons, even compact family cars that require less petrol. Would 29" secretly only work so well there because it more closely resembles their standard fries serving, average go-to-the-supermarket-car, and overall scale of things?

    Also, if the US is so quick to convert to 29" (in march we celebrate its 10-year anniversary, the first rolling proto's of the WTB Nanoraptor)...WHERE were they when Bianchi and Diamond Back were trying to get 28" wheeled MTB's on the market, end 80's/early 90's? Why no support then? I read a review of the Diamond Back Overdrie once, written ca '90-92, and the conculsion was "if only the tires were as wide as real MTB tires, we'd really have something". MTB's were booming back then in the US and all over the world, and not one guy had the balls to make a 29x2.1" tire, it took another decade for that to happen.

    In all of cycling, we too easily accept something as a norm without challenging it for improvements, and when the improvement comes, we oppose it.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    What is Monterosa up to with their geometries?
    S and M are the same (long) bikes.
    Probably a typo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    The XL seems to be longer than the longest XL I've seen before, with a 19" seat tube?
    I guess the seat-tubes are measured center-to-center. From what I remember the L-size (440mm center-to-center) has an actual (center-to-top) seat tube of 490mm, so probably you should apply a 50mm "correction" to the XL too.



    Chapter big wheels diffusion: here in Italy the 29ers are starting to grow in popularity. Slowly, unfortunately. But here all the changes are slow.
    IMHO the greatest issues are two:

    - italian people likes racing: many mtbikers (those that don't spend too mush time on the web ) are former roadies, they like to race xc and hammering hard... and until they don't see some pro winning a trophy with big wheels they'll stay with 26". Probably the recent Armstrong exploit will convince someone

    - test bikes are really, really rare in Italy. This applies to all the bikes: you may guess that if 26" test bikes are just a few, 29" test bikes are almost nothing. In addition consider that, for now, there are no 29" entry level rigs on the market... it's hard to convince someone to spend 2k euros for something so "different".

    BTW, I'm really interested in 29ers... and I'm waiting for a test ride

  62. #62
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    29ers are not that rare in the Nordic countries. Most bikes are of course 26ers, but on most group rides there are at least one 29er and you get no raised eyebrows with a 29er. At least in my home town you can get some 29 inch tires and inner tubes locally, as well as Nishiki and Gary Fisher bikes. Test bikes are rare of course, but goes for 26ers as well, and is quite understandable since the population base of the cities is not large enough for a good selection of bikes.

    By mail order you can get most things fairly quickly: CRC, Singlespeed.nl and Cyclecomponents together have fairly good selection of 29er stuff.

    The most obvious thing in Europe is that the Germans have not yet accepted 29ers. Since the German mail order companies generally are the largest and best (?) in Europe this has a fairly large impact.

  63. #63
    CB2
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    Who said that people in Europe haul construction supplies in Smarts?

    If you feel that bigger is always better, you could go Australian style. Great for getting around town, I'm sure The Smart should be pretty handy for parking in crowded streets.

    Horses for courses, I say.

    I don't think bigger is always better, in fact I prefer the smallest vehicle that will get the job done; we also use a Volvo V70 for smaller deliveries and a GMC van for when we can really pack them in. Sorry, I don't tow any sinks to the jobsite on my bike, but I do ride the 32 mile round trip commute at least 6 months a year.
    I do however feel while the much maligned US auto industry has it's problems (oh so very serious problems!), they still make some excellent and reliable vehicles...that are great for getting to the trail head with your 29'er when you can't ride there.

    But to the actually topic, who really cares what wheel size is popular in Europe? Are they enjoying their bikes any less? I doubt it. Looking at the World Cup, it sure isn't slowing them down. As long as you're riding and enjoying yourself, what else matters?

  64. #64
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    my bikeshop does support 29ers


    my personal bikes stand in the shop.... 5 or surly 6 ....salsa, surly, ventana, redline

    i was in italy a few times for singlespeed races, there are a few 29ers
    i don't know how people in this singlespeedscenes and in the netherlands are more open to stuff like this ...

    there is a shop in finale ligure where the owner rides a 29er where you can buy 29er stuff



    i don't really care what trek or other big companies do, i havent worket with them until now, my shop is small (one man show) and i've started it in august 2007.... i have no idea if it really makes sense for me and other small shops to have brands in the shop that everone else has and where you have to preorder that many bikes only to be also able to have cool and expensive mtb roadie and special products like 29ers

    dont really sell much 29er stuff but i hope that will come and most people who ride 29ers here know me and my shop

    i really don't know what is better for the 29er bike community , movement (whateve i ride the bikes i like no matter how they are called) , having bikes standing in the corner of big shops where nobody cares about them or having a few good oand highly motivated dealers who ride their bikes and are able to organize some stuff when somebody is asking

    i don't know how the situation with bikeshops and 29er friendly bikeshops really is in the states , the only thing we see from here is a big online community
    maybe things look far bigger than ther really are

    one other thing

    bike companies here in europe and importers of us brand have first sell enough "normal" bikes to make their producers and partners happy
    when there is some spare money they will maybe advertise also ther special stuff

    we have a lot of local deales or smaller companies who come to races and suport racers and racing but we don't have big us companies like specialized trek or kona comming to all the races and festivals (the same in cyclocross ...)

    maybe it is easier for small companies to move things here ..... as far as i know there are also a lot of small companies inn the us scene

    and there is a lot of custom built us.stuff comming to europe direct from the manufacturer.. and i dont know how many of those people have time to post here maybe because they ride their bikes ....


    maybe i should once come to america to see all these things ...

  65. #65
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB2
    who really cares what wheel size is popular in Europe? Are they enjoying their bikes any less? I doubt it.
    I do enjoy my bikes and I am still on 26ers.

    The pro-29ers thing , in my mind, is that they may make it less "painful" to go for a less-is-more solution: go back to rigid bikes. We are seeing more agile 29er designs that would probably work well on my local twisty, partly a bit technical, trails. Will they do better than my current hardtails? Don't know yet. But I am tempted to find out if my personal economy allows at some point.

  66. #66
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    maybe europians are right all along

    After riding both my 29 and 26 bikes with almost equal weight, i would feel embarrassed to admit that im faster on the 26 hands down. Maybe Europe had a point all this time.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by troll killer
    the troll killer has spent a lot of time in the us and europe. the troll killer is certain the euros and pommies have just been biding their time until 650b wheels came back into fashion (dominance?) before abandoning 26ers all together and exacting their revenge on the states for "inventing" the 29er by going full 650b.

    hell, most euros don't even know what an inch is; why would they want 29 of them? in fact the troll killer thinks the 29er may never be adopted in europe specifically because its so american. 650b on the other hand has a long established history in europe and they know what it is, no one there asks "what is 650b?".

    Un bacio,

    tk

    LOL.....Hopefully they catch on soon, but I have discovered the 29er for meself and it rocks! Why handicap yourself with 650b, go straight to the better solution = 29er.

    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    I do enjoy my bikes and I am still on 26ers.

    The pro-29ers thing , in my mind, is that they may make it less "painful" to go for a less-is-more solution: go back to rigid bikes. We are seeing more agile 29er designs that would probably work well on my local twisty, partly a bit technical, trails. Will they do better than my current hardtails? Don't know yet. But I am tempted to find out if my personal economy allows at some point.
    29er works great (even better where lots of rocks, roots or sand are concerned) for me even on the really techy trails that I sometimes ride and prolly will be selling my 26 and looking for more 29ers.

    Quote Originally Posted by enio
    i live in croatia(borders with italy), and only 29er i've seen are from kona.first was some scandium based one(expensive),now there are 3 hardtails and hei hei models.those ht kahunas are nicely priced(with 30% off) but u buy one of these and later worry about spare parts!i think not.i would really like to ride 29er rather than 26er but online ordering with bigger prices is out of the question and somewhat difficult....so, maybe ill buy caldera or other 26er for now
    Only parts that are different....frame and forks (obviously), tires, wheels and tubes.....so how often do you replace any of these parts....hopefully only tubes and tires. All of this is readily available online at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    Here's my part. Well over in central europe, almost no-one carries stuff for 29ers. Importers when challenged reply like
    "No sooner shall we start importing till our clients- shops start asking us for relevant parts"
    Clients, in turn, say that they'll not buy a 29er sisnce no part is at large, and buying overseas is cumbersome.
    A vivious circle
    Whos gonna make the first step? The frustrated customers collecting signatures on petition to the authorities to sanction 29ers or what- come on OR importrs wantng to promote something new.
    It seems that there are very few online stores carrying something 29erish.
    WTF??? There are plenty of 29er parts in online stores and in thier ads in biking mags.
    Last edited by Natedogz; 12-20-2008 at 01:38 PM.
    Get off the couch and ride!

  68. #68
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    All my 29`er related stuff has been bought through local dealers or european webshops.

    Some big german companies have accepted 29`ers, look at the leading tire brands.

    There arnt loads of 29`ers in Norway, but it isnt looked at as a quirky fad anymore either.
    Disclaimer. I now sell bicycles and bicycle tyres.

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  69. #69
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    Oh europe thanks so much for Iron Maiden. How will we ever repay you for that

    Ever hear of a thing called Jazz?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grande
    Oh europe thanks so much for Iron Maiden. How will we ever repay you for that

    Ever hear of a thing called Jazz?
    I love Iron Maiden and Jazz.....now back to 29ers!
    Get off the couch and ride!

  71. #71
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    29er's.... Hell the Britain's once conquered 1/2 the world but they still haven't figured out central air and heat.

  72. #72
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    Most euros will never see the light, on 29ers. A majority of European MTB riders ride XC- which translates to minimalist hardware, and ultra light weight. A 29er will not make much sense to a euro, because they are by and large.....hardcore weight weenies. Serious European XC riders and racers are so obsessed about trimming weight off their bike- they often will spend thousands just to lighten their bike, by a few grams. To a weight weenie- a 29" wheel is simply too much rotating mass......and that is where pedaling efficiency matters most. They could care less about whether a 29er can cover more distance on each rotation, than a 26" wheel. To make up for this rather slight discrepancy......they shed weight, which reduces rolling resistance, for the same amount of power expended. I would say this scenario makes the lighter 26" bike just as efficient(if not better) than a 29er.

    And finally, the world's fastest Mountain biker is European. France's Julien Absalon is not only a recent Beijing XC Gold Medalist- but also the reigning UCI XC World Cup rider. His ride of choice? A 17-lb Orbea 26" hardtail. On the world stage, nobody in any continent has been able to unseat this guy. In all fairness, the 29er phenomenon is mainly a North American thing, at best. I have NOTHING against them. In fact, I love the way they ride. To me, they feel very fast. But if I was challenged to a race either using a 22-lb Gary Fisher Superfly 29er, or my 19-lb Cannondale 26er........I would have to opt for my trusted C-dale'. Just my .02 cents....
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  73. #73
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    Poeple here often confuse 29ers with touring bikes or cross bikes. They believe that the first 29er produced by GF is the ultimate quintessence of 29ers. They reckon that the 622mm wheels are the only culprit for sluggishness then, they do not believe than wheels for 29er can be light, they repeat what was remarked in 2001, while kiddy wheel riders, not even having seen a single 29er, persist in recycling their thoughts and discourage others against even thinking about 29ers widely on-line and orally. There must be a huge investment put into this market to convince more people- that means to provide free demo bikes throughout the country.

    Those bicycle must be almost state-of-the-art to show them how nimble and light they are- they are expensive and summarizing there is no such a wealthy and risky company to provide and sponsor so many demo days every day

    In these countries you pay twice the US price and the income at the end of each month is one sixth of the US or western EU ones. Thus no justifiable sales volume involved.

    An average humanbeing can afford solely one cheap bicycle from 100-800$ and 29ers at those limit are crappy and weight a tone so what is the point in buying them. There are very few well-off guys who could afford a decent 29er like 3 thousand dollars. A 3 Thousand $ in us means almost 4,5 in those countries so imagine how many years one has to economize for a light 29er with all the benefits exposed and drawbacks muffled. Such bikes are sold each year in amount of 10 (ten) units!!!

    I contacted 700 shops and those who have something 29erish after selling it will not continue to stock anything more and most of them didn’t even know anything about 29ers their “knowledge” ended when they read in 2000 about GF releasing one or two models. They are dumb as a thumb.
    . We shall have to need a two deacades for eveyone to try a worthwhile 29er, which they will never be capable of affording.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukram
    we must not dream, thats fact

    you can hope 2009 that you will have a home and don´t must leave on the street


    and why are the best cars come from germany??? the american guys can not build great cars called porsche mercedes bmw. drive your big blocks
    Thank you Marshall Plan.

    Germany will embrace 29ers eventually...baby goosesteps.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadpack
    After riding both my 29 and 26 bikes with almost equal weight, i would feel embarrassed to admit that im faster on the 26 hands down. Maybe Europe had a point all this time.

    Equal weight does not mean equal handling. I have a Racer X 26er and a Racer X 29er, both at the top of their game in terms of handling and on most of course I'm faster on the 29er. Mainly because once it's rolling it just keeps momentum better. The 26er does win out on courses that require a lot of short accelerations, but we really have only one, and for the TX folks they'll know what I mean when I say Lake Bryan is it. The rest of courses, the 29er is bee's knees.....
    Draft College Republicans

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB2
    No fan of luxury SUV's, but let see how a Smart Car fares on the jobsite.

    I still have room for my 29'er in the backseat too.
    A Mercedes Sprinter will carry just as much, if not more, and get 2x the fuel economy. In Europe they have contractors and construction, they just don't need 7 liter pickups to move stuff around.. But I digress, let's stay on topic. 29er's own... and Europe manufacturers need to start making them. Come on Europe, if you build it, people will buy it. European folks, don't let another cool idea from the US pass you lot by, jump on the bandwagon now!
    Draft College Republicans

  77. #77
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    The true reason you want a light bike in Europe is UCI description of course design.

    "Cycling is only deemed cross country if the technical complexity of the trails is easy or moderate"

    Ummmm, I rode on the sidewalk with training wheels already when I was kid, if you cannot handle some techy mtb racing, hop back on the road.

    Why would you need anything that had weight or was for technical riding?

    I was in Pra Loup, France last year for UCI Masters worlds and to hear people crab about the course being technical was funny. It had two small sections that required true skill, the rest was a dirt road ride (typical modern mt bike racing).

    Wait a minute, does NORBA (National On Road Bicycle Association) follow those exact same rules? Most courses are great for quad and jeep races, so why do we have so many full suspension xc rides? Don't need any suspension on 3/4 of them.

    I never ask for mileage or hills to be removed when attending a road race so just learn to ride an mtb. Never get better riding easy crap.

  78. #78
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    Give the europeans a break, its really not their fault. The two major mtb rags in germany haven't yet embraced the big wheel revolution but when they do, look out!
    I think thats the problem.
    As far as cars go, the germans, make the best cars.Period.Trucks are another matter, not too practical here in germany, too big fot the streets and guzzle way too much petrol.
    A mercedes sprinter is better, not as cool but more practical.

  79. #79
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    aah Austria... as an american that only drove a car through Austria, I noted to myself as the landscape sped by "If God is a mountain biker, he would ride in Austria". the best terrain I have ever seen for mtn biking...

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil_rad
    Give the europeans a break, its really not their fault. The two major mtb rags in germany haven't yet embraced the big wheel revolution but when they do, look out!
    I think thats the problem.
    As far as cars go, the germans, make the best cars.Period.Trucks are another matter, not too practical here in germany, too big fot the streets and guzzle way too much petrol.
    A mercedes sprinter is better, not as cool but more practical.

    what kind of fuel consumption does the sprinter get? diesel and petrol? i tried looking it up. nothing on MB site that i could easily locate. i could be wrong, but i think you folks might be grossly overestimating the fuel consumption of american trucks.

    i'm not a huge fan of them for reliability reasons, but they aren't all that horrible for their intended purpose.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by aireguitar
    aah Austria... as an american that only drove a car through Austria, I noted to myself as the landscape sped by "If God is a mountain biker, he would ride in Austria". the best terrain I have ever seen for mtn biking...
    you may be right, the alps are spectacular...but nut just austria. switzerland, italy, slowenia, france tooo





  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by aireguitar
    aah Austria... "If God is a mountain biker, he would ride in Austria". the best terrain I have ever seen for mtn biking...

    Amen... Austria (Salzkammergut) was quite a carthartic and humbling experience on a single speed. The "berg" in Heidelberg where I usually ride did not prep me for the Höllengebirge. I did not bring any spare cogs to account for the vertical brutality.




  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rearviewmirror
    A Mercedes Sprinter will carry just as much, if not more, and get 2x the fuel economy. In Europe they have contractors and construction, they just don't need 7 liter pickups to move stuff around.. But I digress, let's stay on topic. 29er's own... and Europe manufacturers need to start making them. Come on Europe, if you build it, people will buy it. European folks, don't let another cool idea from the US pass you lot by, jump on the bandwagon now!
    4.6L, and it gets 18 mpg all around (it also seats 5 adults). Not as good as the Sprinter, which gets about 24 mpg highway IIRC, but gasoline is much cheaper than diesel here. The Sprinter can actually haul more than my GMC, so that might be an option if it ever dies, but it has 190,000 miles on it and is still going strong, so that might be a while.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah
    Most euros will never see the light, on 29ers. A majority of European MTB riders ride XC- which translates to minimalist hardware, and ultra light weight. A 29er will not make much sense to a euro, because they are by and large.....

    MANY WORDS

    .e either using a 22-lb Gary Fisher Superfly 29er, or my 19-lb Cannondale 26er........I would have to opt for my trusted C-dale'. Just my .02 cents....
    ....




    and i thought that most europeans where recreational riders, commuters, tourig with bags on their bikes in norway or on the panamericana .....road cyclists or downhill orientated freeriders with at least 5" travel on their bikes .....

    i have no idea , it depends of your point of view or the city you live in ...

    i think every cycling discipline is more or less insignificant if she has to stand allone

    soccer seems to a bigger and more sucessfuss sport in europe than cycling ever will be
    nobody talks about this 70over 80% people who have to stop their career because of injuries, before they ever get money with their sport ....

    but they seem to have a much better marketing, they have a president that tells everyone who wants to hear it that is not possible to use doping in soccer .....
    the press belives it and players and fans dont tell something else . everyone follows the president

    thats the big difference in cycling in europe (i don't know how it is in america)
    every discipline fights alone, officials and riders tell everyone who asks what they are thinking (also those who better not think ), they seem to use doping oder they let teirselves to be catched .....

    is this the fault of soccer maybe?

    as long as people here in europe where not able to be a bit more open minded nothing will change
    it should be more like (what i think happens in some places in america) the "everything what has to do with bicycles is cool" thing.


    the way this thread has gone is also not really helping

    it seems to me that some people here think this is something like : who is better USA or EU
    i don't know where you've learned to think like that (i could maybe get some ideas when it is necessairy, but it's boring me)

    i think Europe and America are only Different , not more
    the differences in cycling where maybe not as big as people think , but most people have much bigger blocades in ther minds

    - i have no idea what really happens in America - everything looks big here in the virtual world is it really like this?
    i dont know much about what is happening in france, italy, austria or germany too

    -are there so many expensive nice and custommade 29ers on the trails? as it seems in this forum? or are ther even more? because i dont think that jeff jones has only built 10 or 20 bikes until now?

    how is it with cycling in general in the US?

    we don't have enogh informations here i think
    because every country in europe is different and nobody is realy interrested what happens in his neighbour contry or in the next city?
    (maybe the number of sold bikes for every country or for whole europe, but what will that say to us?)
    - how many bikes have been sold in america last year? in europe? what kind of ? how many?
    - do people ride their bikes? where? how often?

    in america you have at least something like this I.M.B.A. but have you any idea what is happening in canada or mexico?
    there is something like this in germany (dimb) i am not sure what exactly they are doing and some things that the french cycling federation does in france but there is nothing that really works over in the whole european community

    here in europe you can ride your bike almost everwhere, we don't have to organize for that, that is cool but it doesent help to make cycling to a strong movement


    so i think there is a lot of Light(s) and Shadow in Europe but is almost impossible to compare that with what is maybe happening in america
    maybe there is also light and shadow in america,

    if we don't have people who know both worlds
    maybe a forum/thread like this can help to learn some little things from each other
    but only if most of the people here do want this

    what do all these things have to do with 29ers? not much, but dos that matter? as i said before i ride my 29ers because i like them, there where enough places in europe where i can buy my stuff .....if not i order the stuff in the us (like everyone else..)
    if 29er bikes should or could be a mass phenomen doesen't interesst me. and it is also far away of the things i can maybe change or influence, so i do those thing wo seem important for me and let others do what they think is important

    i hope the time i've spent for writing this was not for nothing
    Last edited by singlestoph; 12-21-2008 at 12:13 PM.

  85. #85
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    the photos of the alps are spectacular, im in nothern cal, the sierra nevada mtns are just as steep but maybe one notch down as far as scenery goes.

  86. #86
    Technical courses rule!
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlestoph
    ....

    here in europe you can ride your bike almost everwhere
    but we don't have any idea what is happening and we don't have any weight or force in political discusions
    maybe because of we don't have to organize for beeing able to ride on trails


    so i think there is a lot of Light(s) and Shadow in Europe but is allmost impossible to compare that whit what is maybe happening in america
    maybe there is also light and shadow in america,

    if we don't have people who know both worlds
    maybe a forum/thread like this can help to learn some little things from each other
    but only if most of the people her do want this

    i hope the time i've spent for writing this was not for nothing
    There is so much we can learn form each other in a positive way, thank you for pointing it out. Your'e right, 29'ers just are the best to ride whether others like them or not.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by aireguitar
    aah Austria... as an american that only drove a car through Austria, I noted to myself as the landscape sped by "If God is a mountain biker, he would ride in Austria". the best terrain I have ever seen for mtn biking...
    Yup. I lived and rode (and skied) in Austria for a decade. The entire country of Austria is worthy of being on a postcard - it's that beautiful. I miss it every day.

    BB

    P.S. I did a lot of mountain biking in Austria, but I never saw God....

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter
    We should have forced the inch, pound, dyne on them right after WWII when us and the Brits were running things
    3 countries in the world are not on the metric system: USA, Burma and Liberia. That's it.

    By the end of WWII, most of the world was already metric.

    Here's the metrication time line of the world:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  89. #89
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    not enough riding pics here
































  90. #90
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    singlestoph:...it seems to me that some people here think this is something like : who is better USA or EU
    i don't know where you've learned to think like that
    Yeah, I see that here too. Kinda arcane thinking. At least I think so.

    All I can say is I like seeing the action, the scene, and the bikes from around the world. It is encouraging to me, at least.

    By the way, great pictures in your latest post. Thanks!
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Yeah, I see that here too. Kinda arcane thinking. At least I think so.

    All I can say is I like seeing the action, the scene, and the bikes from around the world. It is encouraging to me, at least.

    By the way, great pictures in your latest post. Thanks!
    x2..................sweet pics!
    Get off the couch and ride!

  92. #92
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    Bugger that the French were first... :-)

    About 650B. I live in the one country that has more bicycles than citizen. I do not see 650B bikes here. Let alone a single MTB rider sitting out till those be come mainstream, for parts selection, etc. Anyway, if we want something bigger, we try to avoid the one unit increment. It took inline skaters a long time to "evolve" from 78 to 100mm. Or like that hot pole vault jumper, 25 world records, 1cm at a time. In engineering, just cut that corner please. Be it 6cm or 2.5", get over it, and get it over with.

    You US folk please keep expanding 29", till we have no choice but to bow.

  93. #93
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    I agree with Cloxxki, in Italy the average rider is very conditioned by the "racing traditions". Just to clarify this, in Tuscany where I live the word "cyclist" or "rider" is never used, a man on a bicycle is just a man going to work or a training racer (the exact word is "corridore", "one who race"). The racing scene is pervasive, so that even recreational riders consider only racing equipment even if they will never put a number on the handlebar. Obviously also the average LBS is sticking to this racing-modeled world, and its owner doesn't want to bother with different parts as long as its business is good. The introduction of the mtb was greeted by the majority of shop owners as "an american fad", the suspended forks were "useless weight", full suspended were "heavy and not rideable" and so on. In spite of this very conservative mentality all these piece of equipment have been accepted, mainly because were used by the WC racers. "If they use it, it means it is good".

    But top rank racers do not use 29ers, so the average joe see the biggers wheels at best as an eccentric rig. LBS owners at best do not know 29ers, and often denigrate them with the usual matters of wheels weight and poor handling. The big sellers (Specialized, Scott, Cannondale, Giant) keep selling, so why bother?

    However things are slowly changing, especially for the push by the importers of Niner and Gary Fisher, who got testrides in the magazines and sent testbikes to more open-minded shops. Smaller framebuilders, who target high-end riders, have understood that they can expand in this small niche: for big guns 50 more frames a year are nothing, for a small business it is a lot.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Bugger that the French were first... :-)
    We are always among the first for important things, you know , like it can be seen on the picture Singlestoph took of me leading the international pack at the 29er special WE organized by our nice swiss friends



    For the metric units, The Nederlands didn't took much to follow
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sembola
    in Italy the average rider is very conditioned by the "racing traditions".
    Here, at the other end of Europe, there are no racing traditions.

    Much of the time a cyclist is a foolish eco-maniac, poor student, or athlete who is taking space in "my" street, path or sidewalk. On forest trails, people are usually not in a rush to go anywhere, so meeting a cyclist is OK.

    A race goes unnoticed, unless it interferes with "my" plans to visit a cafe or walk in the woods. If it does interfere, it becomes the source of heated discussions on web forums and the readers' letters in the local newspaper.

    So, how do I pick a bike?
    I don't race. I am no Whippet and the trails are twisty. There's rocks and roots too. I get a bike that is strong enough to last a while. The steering lets me handle the corners and I have acceleration to get up the short steep spots. I can get parts when I wear out stuff. Parts selection is still better for 26ers (tyres and rims) but, as said already, you can get 29er stuff if you want it.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by sembola
    I agree with Cloxxki, in Italy the average rider is very conditioned by the "racing traditions". Just to clarify this, in Tuscany where I live the word "cyclist" or "rider" is never used, a man on a bicycle is just a man going to work or a training racer (the exact word is "corridore", "one who race"). The racing scene is pervasive, so that even recreational riders consider only racing equipment even if they will never put a number on the handlebar. Obviously also the average LBS is sticking to this racing-modeled world, and its owner doesn't want to bother with different parts as long as its business is good. The introduction of the mtb was greeted by the majority of shop owners as "an american fad", the suspended forks were "useless weight", full suspended were "heavy and not rideable" and so on. In spite of this very conservative mentality all these piece of equipment have been accepted, mainly because were used by the WC racers. "If they use it, it means it is good".

    But top rank racers do not use 29ers, so the average joe see the biggers wheels at best as an eccentric rig. LBS owners at best do not know 29ers, and often denigrate them with the usual matters of wheels weight and poor handling. The big sellers (Specialized, Scott, Cannondale, Giant) keep selling, so why bother?

    However things are slowly changing, especially for the push by the importers of Niner and Gary Fisher, who got testrides in the magazines and sent testbikes to more open-minded shops. Smaller framebuilders, who target high-end riders, have understood that they can expand in this small niche: for big guns 50 more frames a year are nothing, for a small business it is a lot.
    pretty much the same situation in Spain... and it is even much worse with road bikes. People just ride what the pros are riding even if it doesn´t make a lot of sense... and with Spanish riders winning the 2008 Giro, Tour, Vuelta and Olympic Games this doesn´t seem to change.
    If only Orbea convinced Julien Absalon to ride their Alma 29er...that would put a lot of 29ers in the trails... although he is only 176 cm

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by raposu
    pretty much the same situation in Spain... and it is even much worse with road bikes. People just ride what the pros are riding even if it doesn´t make a lot of sense... and with Spanish riders winning the 2008 Giro, Tour, Vuelta and Olympic Games this doesn´t seem to change.
    If only Orbea convinced Julien Absalon to ride their Alma 29er...that would put a lot of 29ers in the trails... although he is only 176 cm
    Hi,

    and perhaps some 29er stuff in the stores.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefoten
    terrengsykkel.no
    The name of that site looks and sounds so foreboding and intimidating; like some sort of twisted, bloody Norwegian/Viking heavy metal nightmare. I'm afraid to visit the site because of what it might do to my computer. I'm just glad the members of that site are on our side and ride 29ers. I wouldn't want to get on their bad viking side.
    "If I can't work to make it...I'll rob to take it..."

  99. #99
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    you mean like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ziggurat22
    The name of that site looks and sounds so foreboding and intimidating; like some sort of twisted, bloody Norwegian/Viking heavy metal nightmare. I'm afraid to visit the site because of what it might do to my computer. I'm just glad the members of that site are on our side and ride 29ers. I wouldn't want to get on their bad viking side.
    https://www.lordi.fi/gallery/-Band/L...08_1_large.jpg

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    Precisely! Only bloodier
    "If I can't work to make it...I'll rob to take it..."

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