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  1. #1

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    Wheel Input.

    I've been mulling over my wheel situation and can't come to a decision. For my singlespeed I have a pair of newish American Classic wheels and a pair of Paul hubs from my old 26er singlespeed. I'm not satisfied with the AC wheels. I can't decide if I should ditch just the AC wheels and build up the Pauls with the new Salsa rims, or ditch both and try to fund a Chris King build w/the Salsa rims.

    If I keep the Paul hubs I'd be stuck dealing with freewheels, and I'd want to order an axle to convert it to QR. But, I'm certain selling the AC wheels would cover the cost of new rims and spokes.

    If I sell the Pauls and the AC wheels I probably won't cover the price of King hubs and new rims/spokes, which would suck. But, with the Kings I'd have a cassette hub for the cogs I already have and a field serviceable (bearing adjustment w/allen keys vs cone wrenches) hub.

    So, I guess my question is 'Do you think one AC wheelset + one pair of Paul hubs = one pair of King/Salsa wheels dollar wise?' and 'What's up with those fancy white industries freewheels?' Just feeling indecisive and hoping somebody has input that might tip me one way or the other.

  2. #2
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    Doubt this will help.

    But I am getting a set of Industry nines, and the guys there have been very cool to deal with. I have heard good things about the wheels, but I guess only time will tell.

  3. #3
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    yep....one word; "Industry Nine wheels with custom colored spokes and hubs"

    and yep, the customer service is TOP NOTCH. They are phenomenal and if their product even holds up to half on par with their customer service i will be happy. Chris Kings are so 2005...

  4. #4
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    choicest choices!

    All very good suggestions.
    My wife has Paul hubs. I am extremely impressed with their quality. Spin on your freewheel of choice and grind.
    I have been running Kings laced with DT db spokes to WTB Dual Duty rims for a year now, and that seems to have a good sturdy wheelset for me (220lb with torque).
    Even thought they are SOOOO 2005, they are shinny, cooler that my friends' wheels and it's still a good way to go.
    But Fo is right.
    I9 would be my choice if I had to do it all again.
    By the way, I am doing it all again, and that's what I'm getting.
    One step ahead...

  5. #5
    Purveyor of Fine 29erness
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    rrrg

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    indeed......just ordered mine today
    make me jealous....

  6. #6
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    indeed......just ordered mine today

  7. #7
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    ha! what configuration did you decide on, or are you going to keep us in suspense?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    indeed......just ordered mine today
    Me too.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

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    O' my gawd

    I like so ordered mine last Wednesday.

    Of course, it doesn't really matter. I still have to wait 2 to 3 weeks for a set with the Salsa hoops. Its the only thing holding me back from having a complete 29er. My set is going to be all black. Oh the anticipation.

  10. #10

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    How much do replacement spokes cost? Is there any reason one wouldn"t be able to rebuild an i9 wheel if it gets totaled? What's the verdict on the freehub's reliability?

  11. #11
    Skotty1223
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    Why not try DT Swiss hubs,and Stans 29r Olympic rims. Lighter, cooler and tubeless. I have a pair and really dig them.







    Quote Originally Posted by evilbike
    I've been mulling over my wheel situation and can't come to a decision. For my singlespeed I have a pair of newish American Classic wheels and a pair of Paul hubs from my old 26er singlespeed. I'm not satisfied with the AC wheels. I can't decide if I should ditch just the AC wheels and build up the Pauls with the new Salsa rims, or ditch both and try to fund a Chris King build w/the Salsa rims.

    If I keep the Paul hubs I'd be stuck dealing with freewheels, and I'd want to order an axle to convert it to QR. But, I'm certain selling the AC wheels would cover the cost of new rims and spokes.

    If I sell the Pauls and the AC wheels I probably won't cover the price of King hubs and new rims/spokes, which would suck. But, with the Kings I'd have a cassette hub for the cogs I already have and a field serviceable (bearing adjustment w/allen keys vs cone wrenches) hub.

    So, I guess my question is 'Do you think one AC wheelset + one pair of Paul hubs = one pair of King/Salsa wheels dollar wise?' and 'What's up with those fancy white industries freewheels?' Just feeling indecisive and hoping somebody has input that might tip me one way or the other.

  12. #12
    Appalachian Singletrack'n
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    If I where you I’d sell the AC wheels and get the Pauls rebuilt and get a nice Eno freewheel. paul hubs are so nice. One thing to keep in mind on the kings, the SS hub isn’t easily field repairable/adjustable. The disc adapter has to be removed to get to the lockring etc…

    BTW….I ordered some I9 wheels 3 months ago and am still waiting on the new Salsa rims and for them to get their 24mm hub together. I saw an I9 SS hub Monday it was sweet. Before that one all I had seen where geared hubs.

  13. #13
    velocipede technician
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    pw

    phil wood hubs,get double butted spokes 10mm too long and get em cut so they have a shortter butt,alloy nipples,velocity rims w/velo plugs.my 2cents

  14. #14
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Rebuild on the Paul hubs add a ENO freewheel and be happy.
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  15. #15
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    Shiggy - have I ever told you how resourceful you are?

    I'd do the I9's too. Ever since playing with some at Interbike I have been trying to scam a pair...somehow. Just gotta pay this $1000 doctor bill for my son's broken leg first....stupid deductible...
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  16. #16
    Jackbooted Elitist Hipstr
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    Long(ish) Term I-9 Report

    I've been riding my I-9 wheels for close to a year now and thought I'd share my impressions after living with them for awhile. Seems like a lot of folks are on the fence so maybe I can push you over. Disclaimer- I am in no way affiliated with the guys at I-9 but do know them from the Asheville "scene".

    Setup- I have the hubs (red) laced up to the DT 29er rims with shiny silver spokes. My bike is a Wily singlespeed and most of my ride time was on a rigid fork until it lost a battle with my garage, but that's another story.

    Ride-
    The wheels pretty much live up to the hype. Super quick to accellerate thanks to the light weight and lack of nipples. They are also very stiff. The first 29er wheelset I rode was a Bonty Race setup and they flexed a good bit every time I stuffed the bike into a corner. The I-9' s on the other hand are stiffer than Ron Jeremy back in 1985. The wheels go exactly where I put em, and stay there.

    Another thing I dig about the wheels is the instant engagement. I am running the 6 pawl setup that gives something like 3 degree engagement. It is very noticable/helpful in technical sections where I need to ratchet back to clear a rock/root and then get on the gas to power over the next trail goodie.

    Durability- After nearly a year of riding in very rocky, rooty, mucky, wet western NC, the bearings and freehub are still smooth and precise. I have trued the wheels once in the time I have owned them, and it was simple. A standard spoke wrench does the job and I have had no problem with spoke wind up, stripped threads etc... I've had plenty of rocks and sticks thrown into the spokes while riding, but have not broken any spokes. They're all holding up just fine. I am not a big hucker, but like to ride pretty hard and fast and will generally try to ride anything I come across. So far the wheels are bombproof.

    Issues- If there are any problems with the wheels, they're very minor. The 6 pawl freehub setup was loud at first, but has gotten much quieter. That arrangement also creates a fair bit of drag, but that's reallyly the kind of thing I notice on the repair stand, but vanishes on the trail. And I could remove half of the pawls and still have 6 degree engagement.

    The price is steep, but I don't really spend much money on anything else. Besides, they're as good as it gets for wheels.

    Hope this helps folks make up their minds. I see so many posts about hypothetical "problems" with I-9's design I thought I'd give some real-world feedback.








    Dirtbag since '89

  17. #17
    Nat
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    I thought you lived in Idaho...

    Do you mean that the user is able to remove 3 of the 6 pawls in the home shop, or would you have to send the wheels back to I9 to do so? Also, is there a big drop in drag with only 3 pawls?

    Can you compare the loudness and quality of the freewheel sound to another hub? This is a tricky one, I know.

  18. #18
    Jackbooted Elitist Hipstr
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    Naw, I'm a hillbilly

    I lived in Flagstaff and Denver, but never Idaho. I did spend a great week riding Boise and Sun Valley/Ketchum a few years back though.

    I don't know for sure if removing the pawls is a DIY job, but I have seen the hubs taken apart and it looks pretty easy. The guys at I-9 could tell you.

    When I first got my set I told John they were louder than I liked and was concerned about the drag. He offered to take out some of the pawls and suggested that if he did, they'd be quieter and have less drag. Not sure how much quieter and how much less drag, but after riding the wheels a bit more I was happy with the stock setup.

    As I said, they are now much quieter than they were early on. Even then they weren't as objectionable sounding to me as the Kings are. They aren't as "whining" sounding to me as the CK and are now much quieter.

    One of my favorite things about riding a SS is how quiet the bike is. The I9 hubs don't take away from that experience for me.
    Dirtbag since '89

  19. #19
    Cold. Blue. Steel.
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    "Stiffer than Ron Jeremy in 1985..." LMFAO!!!!
    Hopefully not as hairy, though I have seen you rip some serious singletrack on the way down the mountain.

    Guys- STP wouldn't BS a horny conservative congressman and he rides the sh!t out of those wheels. They are his everyday wheels and have even seen duty pulling his little boy around in the trailer. I am sold, but need to come up with the cash.

    OGG
    Spinning and Grinning...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I thought you lived in Idaho...

    Do you mean that the user is able to remove 3 of the 6 pawls in the home shop, or would you have to send the wheels back to I9 to do so? Also, is there a big drop in drag with only 3 pawls?

    Can you compare the loudness and quality of the freewheel sound to another hub? This is a tricky one, I know.
    for Pete's sake.....would you sack up and order em already!?!?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilbike
    I've been mulling over my wheel situation and can't come to a decision. For my singlespeed I have a pair of newish American Classic wheels and a pair of Paul hubs from my old 26er singlespeed. I'm not satisfied with the AC wheels. I can't decide if I should ditch just the AC wheels and build up the Pauls with the new Salsa rims, or ditch both and try to fund a Chris King build w/the Salsa rims.

    If I keep the Paul hubs I'd be stuck dealing with freewheels, and I'd want to order an axle to convert it to QR. But, I'm certain selling the AC wheels would cover the cost of new rims and spokes.

    If I sell the Pauls and the AC wheels I probably won't cover the price of King hubs and new rims/spokes, which would suck. But, with the Kings I'd have a cassette hub for the cogs I already have and a field serviceable (bearing adjustment w/allen keys vs cone wrenches) hub.

    So, I guess my question is 'Do you think one AC wheelset + one pair of Paul hubs = one pair of King/Salsa wheels dollar wise?' and 'What's up with those fancy white industries freewheels?' Just feeling indecisive and hoping somebody has input that might tip me one way or the other.

    - I'd take Shig's rec. as being the best way for you to save loot and have a nice wheelset. Cut out those [email protected] Am. Classic hubs, use them as paper-weights or something and relace your Paul hubs to the Am. Classic rims and buy an ENO freewheel. Done.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I thought you lived in Idaho...

    Do you mean that the user is able to remove 3 of the 6 pawls in the home shop, or would you have to send the wheels back to I9 to do so? Also, is there a big drop in drag with only 3 pawls?

    Can you compare the loudness and quality of the freewheel sound to another hub? This is a tricky one, I know.
    I called I9 and asked about this because Boutique Bikes has a set in stock that are 3 pawl and was told it was user friendly upgradeable and could be done if you had a little mechanical ability.
    Nothing to see here.

  23. #23
    twinkie
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    Just to keep everyone up to date, STP has the earlier version of our rear hub. We currently have different bearings, a dustcover incorporated into the freehub body that covers the hub body bearing and slightly different hub internals that GREATLY reduce the amount of drag the 6 pawl system over STP's generation of hubs.

    Not trying to Spam, just updating.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    ....could be done if you had a little mechanical ability.
    so I guess I would be out of luck then....

    however, it appears the 6-pawl are the default so fortunately i will not have to attempt this.

    Felt good cancelling the order for King hubs which had me more than skeptical about the true wait time I would have had to suffer through given the color option I had selected.....and have I said how 2005 Kings are? Not that Hadley's estimates are any better and likely FAR worse.

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    Here's another dumb question/solicitation for opinions: Do you guys think I should auction my wheelset on Ebay with it's two non-fatal dents in the rear rim, and offer to have it rebuilt, if the seller wants, for winning bid plus $100 (which is what AC will charge me to have it rebuilt)? Would that seem sheisty?

    I have been using King hubs on my geared bikes for a long time and have a lot of confidence in their freehub mechanism. How have people fared with the DT 240S hubs w/r/t to the freehub? Bearing life? The DT price is looking good... would have to use one of these though:



    Opinions?

    And what's the deal with using alloy nipples in a disc wheelset? I thought that was verbotten, but witness the AC wheels...

    Fah.

  26. #26
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    Dang!!! For once I thought I was one step ahead of Foshizzle

    My I9s will have the new Stans Freeride rim and the freeride spokes.

  27. #27
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    ......and please dont tell me you got boring black

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilbike
    ...And what's the deal with using alloy nipples in a disc wheelset? I thought that was verbotten, but witness the AC wheels...

    Fah.
    I have used nothing but aluminum nipples in disc wheels for 6 years. Not a single problem.
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  29. #29
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    I went to I9's web site and the 29er and SS would not light up so I couldnt get any info. How are the price of I9's compared to DT240? Where do I get prices?

  30. #30
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    DT makes a great hub and no fiddling around like the king. I hate how you have to remove the disk to tighten the rear hub up, which happens weekly.

    I happen to know where someone can pic up a fantasic wheelset that also happens to use these great 240 hubs and they are practically new as well.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  31. #31
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtompilot
    I went to I9's web site and the 29er and SS would not light up so I couldnt get any info. How are the price of I9's compared to DT240? Where do I get prices?
    If ya gotta ask...

    They are way more expensive than DT's. I9 will email you a price list by request. Take your beta blockers and sit down first.

  32. #32
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    for Pete's sake.....would you sack up and order em already!?!?
    I am this -> <- close. Just need to yank a couple more toenails first (actually just waiting to hear back from Mettler about something). How soon do you expect yours?

    Hey, are the 24mm axles the default or an upgrade?

  33. #33
    change is good
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    Purple, purple, and more purple

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    ......and please dont tell me you got boring black
    My job is to win the tackiest looking bike award. All I need is a Superfly hat.
    Last edited by DrDon; 02-23-2006 at 05:59 PM. Reason: typo

  34. #34
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    not unfarily priced at all. take for example CrossMax SLs and you will quickly see what I mean.

  35. #35
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    not unfarily priced at all. take for example CrossMax SLs and you will quickly see what I mean.
    I guess those are highly affordable. Nice of Mavic to make a "wheel for the masses" hey?

  36. #36
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrack Pig
    I lived in Flagstaff and Denver, but never Idaho.
    Oops, it was Earth Pig of whom I was thinking.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilbike
    Here's another dumb question/solicitation for opinions: Do you guys think I should auction my wheelset on Ebay with it's two non-fatal dents in the rear rim, and offer to have it rebuilt, if the seller wants, for winning bid plus $100 (which is what AC will charge me to have it rebuilt)? Would that seem sheisty?

    I have been using King hubs on my geared bikes for a long time and have a lot of confidence in their freehub mechanism. How have people fared with the DT 240S hubs w/r/t to the freehub? Bearing life? The DT price is looking good... would have to use one of these though:



    Opinions?

    And what's the deal with using alloy nipples in a disc wheelset? I thought that was verbotten, but witness the AC wheels...

    Fah.
    nO no No! I speak from experience, Take them apart and sell the hubs and rims seperate. You will get more for them then you will as a complete wheel and way easier to box and ship.Trust me on this.

  38. #38
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilbike
    How have people fared with the DT 240S hubs w/r/t to the freehub? Bearing life?
    I have two sets of the DT240's without any problems ever. One set is about 4 years old.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I am this -> <- close. Just need to yank a couple more toenails first (actually just waiting to hear back from Mettler about something). How soon do you expect yours?

    Hey, are the 24mm axles the default or an upgrade?
    24mm certainly not standard and should be available for the masses shortly as I understand it. In terms of upgrade, actually not sure. I do know they are effectively a modified Enduro front hub.

    my wheelset will be ready shortly after the Delgado Disc rims arrive since as you may know, they are tough to obtain right now.

    now go yank another nail and just do it so you can sleep again at night

  40. #40

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    OK. I ruminated while I did plan-o-grams. I'm going with the DT 240 hubs, Salsa Delgado disc rims, DT 2.0/1.8 black spokes and red or gold alloy nipples. Built by me. Huzzah.

    Just have to sell some stuff. And wait for the rims to be in stock.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrack Pig
    I thought I'd give some real-world feedback

    Thanks singletrackpig for the update and the valuable real world info, I just placed an order for a set of Enduro wheels today... spoke to John and Fred both.. and set them up with my LBS to sell their wheels (I think he's eyeing a set for himself actually).

    I can't wait the week now for them to get here!

    Off topic..

    BTW.. do you burn biodiesel? I drive a diesel myself (CDI) and saw Willie Nelson converted his to a bio-diesel.. I'm waiting for the warranty period to end, and I think I'm gonna go for it.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    not unfarily priced at all. take for example CrossMax SLs and you will quickly see what I mean.
    That is exactly what I sold to replace with the I9's.... My Mavics were hardly a week old when I found them a new home, the retail is exactly the same price ($859), however the I9 hub is an order of magnitude better.. if not more. I'll only miss the Mavic's silver rims,. but I'll not miss them that much!

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    i was impressed that Industry Nine is even written on the spokes themselves.....pretty cool.
    Get outta here! For real??? Post some pics!!

  44. #44
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    cool.....got a sample spoke for my new I9 wheelset in the mail today.....soooohhhhweeeet. not sure what it will look like as a complete wheel but pretty sure i am gonna like it. i was impressed that Industry Nine is even written on the spokes themselves.....pretty cool.

    now off the spoke goes to sherwood so the frame paint can match the wheels of course

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    If ya gotta ask...

    They are way more expensive than DT's. I9 will email you a price list by request. Take your beta blockers and sit down first.
    Got I9's email. Approx $950 for 29er SS laced to Stans 355 rims.

  46. #46
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtompilot
    Got I9's email. Approx $950 for 29er SS laced to Stans 355 rims.
    The big question is are you ready to kick out a thou (don't forget shipping) for wheels? I think I am.

  47. #47
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    Quote I hate how you have to remove the disk to tighten the rear hub up, which happens weekly.

    Grind down a allen wrench so you don't have to take off the rotor.

  48. #48
    mcd
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    cool....

    now off the spoke goes to sherwood so the frame paint can match the wheels of course

    You're gonna end up in the smithsonian's new exhibit on Hip-Hop "bling category" if you keep this up!
    disclaimer: i (NO LONGER) live with my mom...

  49. #49
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    I'm down with Willie

    Yeah, I bought a 1987 Mercedes 190 Turbodiesel last year and have been filling it with biodiesel from the local co-op. I'm really happy with the performance- it't cleaner burning, doesn't stink like petro diesel, doesn't smoke, and has greatly reduced emissions.

    Best of all I only have to give 30% of my fuel money to the big oil companies in the winter and 1% to them in the summer! No modifications were necessary, though at some point I'll need to replace the fuel lines. Biodiesel breaks down in water within hours and becomes inert, but it does eat up rubber fuel lines.

    I say go for it , its been great for me.

    Oh yeah, enjoy the wheels.
    Dirtbag since '89

  50. #50
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    that is a bargain when you think of how much a bad cocaine habit costs

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrack Pig
    .

    Oh yeah, enjoy the wheels.
    Thanks.. and I just noticed you're in I9's backyard! I used to fly for ASA (Delta Connection) and Ashville was my favorite RON.. beautiful place.. I can see myself settling down there.

  52. #52
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    will do.....before i ship it tomorrow i will take a pic. yeah, they laser etch their name in each spoke! i just asked Jeff at I9 if he could laser etch FoShizzle in as well

    the color is pretty robust for the spoke.....looks great. suits my anti-conservative bike scheme i want

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