Walmart to sell a fully rigid 29 steel singlespeed- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Walmart to sell a fully rigid 29 steel singlespeed

    Well, maybe not exactly true. But what if they did? What if walmart could sell a solid, affordable, 29er? How many people would get introduced to mountain biking?

    I talk to people about getting out to ride all the time. Every member of my family is an rabid cyclist -- I think it's the best sport, period. Most of the time when I try to get people introduced to the sport they refuse because "their bike sucks". I would love it if walmart would quit selling springy, shiny bikes... and start selling super simple bikes that would get everybody in the community rolling on two wheels!!!

    How about a $100 entry level bike that would be fine on most easy single track? I know it's not going to be the artistry of the 3/2.5 titanium welds or the engagement points of a hadley hub... but it might make someone fall in love in mountain biking. Isn't that what would be most beneficial for the sport?

  2. #2
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    I agree. Anything that can get the average obese Wal-mart consumer off the couch would be great.

  3. #3
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    This idea makes real sense. Henry Ford once did it with the assembly-line built Model T that quickly got the masses off their horses and into a relatively-rugged, simply-designed automobile that was reliable and affordable (as long as you liked the color black).

    Wallyworld would need to commission a truly basic bulletproof steel HT design that emphasizes durability, simplicity, and function over faux bling. Then build/sell a zillion of them in order to drop the retail price to the point that lots of non-mtbrs would be willing to buy for themselves or their kids. The scale would be bifg enough that even if only a quarter of this group stayed with the sport, it would represent a huge increase in interest that would help our cause in trail advocacy.

    The challenge would be finding the sweetspot in designing/building a reliable nonfussy short-travel fork, presumably a mech. disc brake, decent shifting, etc. The 's in the details on this one though.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDP77
    I would love it if walmart would quit selling springy, shiny bikes... and start selling super simple bikes...
    You are an educated cycling consumer. You understand that department store bikes offer inefficient suspension systems and bottom barrel shifting systems.

    The lumpen masses who would first think "Walmart" when considering buying a bike do not have this understanding.

    The person who goes into Walmart thinks a bike should cost $99.98 and that's it. For their $99.98 they know they want the most they can get for their money. And in their eyes they're getting the most when their bike is shiny with big knobby tires, buttons on the handlebars, disc brakes, a fork that goes up and down, and a spring in the back of the bike. They don't care a bit about suspension design or how efficient a bike pedals.

    If you place a rigid 29er single speed next to a full suspension Walmart bike and offered them at the same price, you can bet the buyer would choose the full suspension bike because they just don't understand. Walmart isn't going to convince them of this by offering an alternative. Walmart knows what sells, and what sells are crappy mountain bikes.

    You should start educating people. Make a website and spread the gospel.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre
    I agree. Anything that can get the average obese Wal-mart consumer off the couch would be great.
    It's more accurate to say the "average American consumer". Not to start another rant... but with the obesity rate at 33% and the over-weight rate at 67%... and mountain biking burning 800 - 1000 calories an hour. You would think the government would GIVE mountain bikes away for the health benefits!

  6. #6
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    I agree. It would take a massive education/marketing effort. But think how many bikes could be sold. Which would lead to towns providing infrastructure to support this mass of bikes.

  7. #7
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    Walmart relies on volume and volume requires bling.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDP77
    How about a $100 entry level bike that would be fine on most easy single track? ..... Isn't that what would be most beneficial for the sport?
    I'm sorry, but I can't begin to comprehend how the words "$100" and "entry level" can be used in the same sentence the way you are. Imho, totally unrealistic. I'd like to imagine that most enthusiasts, seemingly like yourself and many others on this board, would agree. I don't see how anyone/company can pull that off, not even Walmart.


    As for beneficial to the sport? Not sure, but i'm leaning on the side of no. I have yet to be in/hear about a "proper bicycle shop" (ie, one that typically has an "entry level" bike being sold at ~$800 CAD$ or ~$400) that would do any work on something that was originally purchased at Walmart (or Canadian Tire or whatever big box store). Most shops i've been to wouldn't give a customer like that the time of day and come up with plenty of "reasons" why they plain old won't work on a "bike like that". Speculative, but I imagine a scenario like that winding up with said customer NOT buying that ~$x00 "entry level" bike, maybe not riding their bike at all any more and the bike shop "losing" a sale. People buying the $100 bike think the rest of us are nuts, nothing new.


    Now, if you were talking about a $100 entry level pavement pumper bike, THEN i'd say it's possible ..... but an unholy waste of time for "the sport".
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies. :D

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDP77
    Well, maybe not exactly true. But what if they did? What if walmart could sell a solid, affordable, 29er? How many people would get introduced to mountain biking?

    I talk to people about getting out to ride all the time. Every member of my family is an rabid cyclist -- I think it's the best sport, period. Most of the time when I try to get people introduced to the sport they refuse because "their bike sucks". I would love it if walmart would quit selling springy, shiny bikes... and start selling super simple bikes that would get everybody in the community rolling on two wheels!!!

    How about a $100 entry level bike that would be fine on most easy single track? I know it's not going to be the artistry of the 3/2.5 titanium welds or the engagement points of a hadley hub... but it might make someone fall in love in mountain biking. Isn't that what would be most beneficial for the sport?
    Surely you've followed the other 29"er threads from the two bikes Wal-Mart sold out of this past year (Mongoose Impasse and Mongoose Deception). The Deception's $199 price didn't seem to be a barrier of Wally selling them all out of stock.

    Not sure $100 is going to be able to get a solid enough wheelset for the big wheels put together on a frame/fork combo that would roll out the front door and last more than a ride or two - plus a pair of tires - to make that kind of a selling price even remotely feasible. I fear it would simply end up with a description underlined above in your post that I quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by roxnroots
    This idea makes real sense. Henry Ford once did it with the assembly-line built Model T that quickly got the masses off their horses and into a relatively-rugged, simply-designed automobile that was reliable and affordable (as long as you liked the color black).
    The 29"er side of bikes had and still has the Model T available to the masses. We call it the Karate Monkey.

    BB

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Surely you've followed the other 29"er threads from the two bikes Wal-Mart sold out of this past year (Mongoose Impasse and Mongoose Deception). The Deception's $199 price didn't seem to be a barrier of Wally selling them all out of stock. ..... The 29"er side of bikes had and still has the Model T available to the masses. We call it the Karate Monkey.

    BB
    With Walmart selling out i'd think that tells them (Walmart) that they need to increase prices ..... along with produce more units.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies. :D

  11. #11
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    I wish the LBS could sell a SS 29er for under $500...
    Department stores should really have all their bikes inspected for safety. What good is a decent bike with a crap build, if I buy a new car or motorcycle I am pretty sure the brakes will work and it will not need a full tune up right out the door.

    I agree that the hundreds of thousands of crap bikes sold has done a great disservice to the sport but until the lack of care in assembly is addressed even a "good" bike will not be worth riding.
    The wheel is a extension of the foot

  12. #12
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    without the faux bling they won't sell very many. people think they need a bike that looks like the ones on the cover of Mountain Bike Action. That bling usually includes suspension even if it doesn't work worth a damn. Gears are another thing that people want even if they don't use them - or can't because the chain is stuck in one gear.
    Vecsus

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  13. #13
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    I disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by topmounter
    Walmart relies on volume and volume requires bling.
    I kinda disagree with this statement because I just bought a Mongoose Deception 29er just after Christmas and I didn't buy it because of the "Bling Factor." I bought mine because I liked the toned down color scheme and the big a$$ wheels.........LOL

    Seriously................the fact that the Deception is a hard tail also was a deciding factor. I was going to buy a Genesis 26" full suspension bike but decided on the Deception instead. Also, damn near every Walmart store is sold out of the Deception and it is "Out of Stock" online.

    Proves that you don't need bright colors or Chrome plated parts to sell a bike!

  14. #14
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    love the stickers that say shimano equipped powered by sram

  15. #15
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    Wouldn't work. My own brother thinks his $25 garage sale Pacific bike is better than my $3000 HT because it has front AND rear "suspension". I've talked multiple times with him about bikes and I consider him an intelligent, just not informed guy. If he can't grasp it then I guarantee a moronic WalMart devotee wouldn't get it. If a moron ready to put a $100 bike into layaway for 3 months is standing in front of a blinged out "FS" and a boring SS bike with no suspension... You get the point.

    It makes sense to us and that's about it

  16. #16
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    What if 29ers just fell from the sky? Well I know it probably wouldn't happen, but what would it do to the market? Would you ride it?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33
    What if 29ers just fell from the sky? Well I know it probably wouldn't happen, but what would it do to the market? Would you ride it?
    No. All the wheels would be tacoed

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDP77
    I would love it if walmart would quit selling springy, shiny bikes...


    My wife and I had this exact same discussion. She rides occassionally, but she's not hardcore into the industry or anything like that.

    I posed the same question and she basically said, "...because people perceive suspension and a bunch of gears as value..."

    I don't know if people "not in the know" understand rigid singlespeed as having more value than a purple/yellow/blue NEXT full suspension bike with 27 gears.

    It's like, "Why would I have something without suspension and only one gear when I can get something with front and back suspension with lots of gears?!"

    It's funny, because that scene in Napoleon Dynamite is actually very accurate and describes a lot of peoples perception of what is "good".

  19. #19
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    We tried to give away bikes to "people in need". They ended up in pawn shops or in the river. Ownership must be "earned" and anything free (low cost) has no (little) perceived value...as mentioned above perception IS Reality to most people...

    Alice B toe clips won races on an english 3 speed with a basket...who needs Bling...if people want to ride they will-if they get hooked they will want more and better bikes and components. $199 for a 29er at wally mart-I'll send everyone down for one...

  20. #20
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    https://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

    Hmmmm... sorry, had to do it.




  21. #21
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    The idea sounds good, but I have some reserves. The biggest being the $100 price mark. I think we've all been around bicycles long enough to understand the stretch there. I'm not going to say it's impossible because I have no solid knowledge of bulk raw materials. More importantly however, this would just confuse your average Wal-mart consumer. Large retail stores do not offer guidance to to buyer, and we have to refer to the above post about "Suspension" and "Gears". These are the obvious traits of what we perceive as "High-end" bicycles. Without someone to guide a consumer, it wouldn't sell on it's own. And you might be saying, "I'm going to be guiding he or she." You will be guiding them to Wal-Mart and they're going to miss the experience of many of the traits that keep us involved in the sport. Friendly, passionate owners, endless personalization options, rapidly advancing technology, and camaraderie.

  22. #22
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    dumpster diving just took a turn for the worse
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  23. #23
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    This dead horse has already been beaten

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...=walmart+rigid
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!! :cornut:

  24. #24
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    Consider these points:

    -Most of us came to riding rigid SS bikes onlly after years of riding bikes with gears and or suspension of one sort or another.

    -Even an inexpensive rigid SS 29er costs in the $400 range.

    -It would have to compete with bikes with gears/suspesion at nearly the same price point.

    -Most Walmart customers would not know what they are looking at.

    Be happy that they are actually selling bikes like the Mongoose mentioned above. Rigid front fork, hard tail geared 29er. Even with the crap wheelset and components, it should last a new rider long enough to get them a taste of the sport. Even better, because the frame & fork lack suspension, with a few upgrades, it could last a rider for years of happy (if not light weight) riding.
    "There are those who would say there's something pathological about the need to ride, and they're probably on to something. I'd wager though that most of the society-approved compulsions leave deeper scars in the psyche than a need to go and ride a bicycle on a mountain." Cam McRea

  25. #25
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    Looking at the big picture, Walmart isn't in the business of trying to get consumers involved in a specific sport/hobby, they're in the business of selling a lot of products cheap, usually at the expense of quality. I don't think anyone here will disagree that for most products, you should avoid Walmart if quality is a quality (yes, I did that on purpose, sorry) that is important to you. That's one of the reasons I don't shop there, among several other reasons.

    Now if you want to talk about hypothetical situations, fine, let's say, hypothetically, Walmart decided one day to try selling a $100 SS 29er. First problem, how in the world do you build a bike for that price point that isn't so low quality that it's actually dangerous on anything but pavement? I'd be willing to bet those wheels would taco real quick and the frame would be very prone to cracked welds. Second issue, the customer base. As has been said several times in this thread, the vast majority of Walmart customers aren't going to want a SS 29er, they'll choose the FS 21, 24 or 27 speed bike.

    Anyway, I think you get it. I would bet all my money it wouldn't work out.

  26. #26
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    cant forget about the stickers that say " this bike is not for off road use"...

  27. #27
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    I bought some bike locks I liked alot at Walmart. I go back several times over several months out of stock. I go to my LBS looking for something similar basically you set the combination. There they were in a catalog. Exactly the same price as Walmart. The 29er tubes I get at the LBS the same price as Jenson. All the bike shoppes order from the same one or two wholesalers. There is your volume discount with some money for the bike shoppe. The thing Ive learned about bike economics dont settle for anything less than what you want. There are bike shoppes that sell like Walmart especially at year end. Find the independent who will recognize you the next time you come in.

  28. #28
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    The main issue here isn't really the hypothetical quality, the price, etc. WalMart isn't in the game of setting trends, or being cutting edge - in the mountain biking community, singlespeeding, and even 29ers, are not the standard, and not so popular that it makes sense in such large scale planning(for them, that is). As such, WalMart isn't going to invest the time or energy in sourcing this sort of item for this segment of the cycling population because the margin on the product is so narrow.

    Instead, they will continue to build the 'Sledgehammer'.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33
    What if 29ers just fell from the sky? Well I know it probably wouldn't happen, but what would it do to the market? Would you ride it?
    Best post in the thread.

    What I don't understand is how your average Wal-Mart customer is supposed to embrace SS when the majority of the serious MTBRs on this site don't even ride one? I think most people would consider having gears as part of graduating from a kid bike to a grown-up bike. Not to mention that most out of shape folks won't respond well to to the idea that they either have to walk their bike up a hill or stand up and mash until they collapse. That's a tough sell.

    On a somewhat related note, didn't Specialized and Trek both try to bring affordable/quality bikes to the masses via big box stores and get their asses handed to them? If the industry pros with a vested interest in growing the cycling community couldn't do it, it's hard to imagine Wal-Mart doing it. Plus, they don't really gain anything if a customer buys a bike that's really durable and lasts for many years. The disposable bike model seems to be working quite well for them

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenspokes
    Consider these points:

    -Most of us came to riding rigid SS bikes onlly after years of riding bikes with gears and or suspension of one sort or another.
    I spent from 1950 to 1961 riding a rigid SS bike. I'm thinking I prefer gears.

    -Even an inexpensive rigid SS 29er costs in the $400 range.

    -It would have to compete with bikes with gears/suspesion at nearly the same price point.

    -Most Walmart customers would not know what they are looking at.
    All pretty much true.

    Be happy that they are actually selling bikes like the Mongoose mentioned above. Rigid front fork, hard tail geared 29er. Even with the crap wheelset and components, it should last a new rider long enough to get them a taste of the sport. Even better, because the frame & fork lack suspension, with a few upgrades, it could last a rider for years of happy (if not light weight) riding.
    Good points, I think. Although the Mongoose Deception (a geared 29er sold by WalMart) has a 4.5lb frame which isn't very heavy for a $199 bike - or even a $199 frame. Several of us on mtbr have bought them (I bought one just to try 29ers at a bargain price) and while some have upgraded the components entirely or in part, others have left them stock. The biggest issue seems to be the BB which is unsealed and often ungreased. There is also a problem with aluminum slag in the tubes which tends to collect around the BB. I switched to a sealed unit first thing.

    I actually like the bike a lot. Certainly well enough to put a 29er on my list for the next bike. Not as maneuverable as my 26ers but not a lot heavier either. The shocks are crude spring-only and I plan to replace those. Otherwise, the bike surpassed my expectations. Too bad WalMart isn't going to sell the Deceptions any more (there may be some around though).

    WDR

  31. #31
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    This thread got me thinking about the fact that I need new tires and the last time I bought new ones the best price I could find was $35 at my LBS. Just looked on line can't find anything much cheaper. At least not off the top of the google page maybe if you really shop around and wait for the biggest sale of the year. But I need new tires soon so I will likely go and support my LBS.

    For kicks I went to the Wallyworld site they didn't have any 29er tires listed. Imagine the shock of someone who paid $100 hell even the $200 bike and then finding out it's going to cost anywhere from $60-$100 for new tires. Of course there is the good old American way of just throwing out the old bike and buy a new one since that is the cheapest way to get new rubber.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  32. #32
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    I am positive Walmart can my a $100 SS 29er...

    I had an email over xmas about Stout SE for $289. Bikes Direct has done specials where total cost of a sold SS 29er was $239.

    That tells me that a company with the purchasing power and Asian connections of a Walmart can get a $100 29er done if they want.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by one incredible donkey
    The person who goes into Walmart thinks a bike should cost $99.98 and that's it.
    I think that's the crux of the problem. In 1980 an entry level bike at Montgomery Wards, Sears, or the local Schwinn dealer cost about $75-100. The equates to about $200-250 in today's dollars.

    The masses have been stuck on $100 as being the max price point for a bicycle for a long time. And so entry level bikes just keep getting crappier and crappier to meet that price. Until you change mass perceptions about the value of a bicycle, you're stuck.

  34. #34
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    As far as I know walmart doesnt sell 29er tires or tubes. So....what are these guys gonna do if they get a flat? Take it to their lbs where a tire is gonna cost about $50. thats 25% of what their entire bike costs!! Its gonna blow their minds!!!
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!! :cornut:

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05
    As far as I know walmart doesnt sell 29er tires or tubes. So....what are these guys gonna do if they get a flat? Take it to their lbs where a tire is gonna cost about $50. thats 25% of what their entire bike costs!! Its gonna blow their minds!!!
    Yep like I said above I needed a new tire yesterday I went to the LBS lowest priced tire in stock $42 for a Cross Mark. I mentioned this thread to the shop guy for a good laugh we both agreed that by the time the tires wear out on these bikes the owners would be better off buying a whole new bike. Best value in the end and the bike will likely be shot anyway that is assuming they actually used it much.

    As for the OP"s idea that a good cheap bike will get lazy Walmart shoppers to ride bikes I doubt it. Here in Tucson, AZ a perfect place to ride bikes, commuter, road, mtb anytime there is a newspaper story on bikes using the road most of comments on line are that bikes don't belong on roads. If it's an off road story then the cactus huggers say we don't belong off road.

    The average American wouldn't ride a bike if you gave it to them let alone pay $100. The way I see it here in Tucson commuters fall into two categories the guy who thinks he can save the world by not driving his car and the guy who is too poor to own a car. Well then there is the third group the DUI guy who isn't allowed to drive but most of them are on the POS motorized bikes.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    Yep like I said above I needed a new tire yesterday I went to the LBS lowest priced tire in stock $42 for a Cross Mark. I mentioned this thread to the shop guy for a good laugh we both agreed that by the time the tires wear out on these bikes the owners would be better off buying a whole new bike. Best value in the end and the bike will likely be shot anyway that is assuming they actually used it much.

    sorry, i didnt read every post. just the first few then i skip down. but you are exactly right.
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!! :cornut:

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy853
    I bought some bike locks I liked alot at Walmart. I go back several times over several months out of stock. I go to my LBS looking for something similar basically you set the combination. There they were in a catalog. Exactly the same price as Walmart. The 29er tubes I get at the LBS the same price as Jenson. All the bike shoppes order from the same one or two wholesalers. There is your volume discount with some money for the bike shoppe. The thing Ive learned about bike economics dont settle for anything less than what you want. There are bike shoppes that sell like Walmart especially at year end. Find the independent who will recognize you the next time you come in.
    3 Wholesalers
    Quality Bike Parts (QBP) (Who owns Surly/Salsa and a handful of other well known brands)
    Seattle Bike Supply (SBS) (Who owns Redline)
    J&B Importers (Who makes the Origin 8 products)

  38. #38
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    This thread reminds me of when Walmart started carrying fixies. The Hipsters thought the world would in, too.

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