V's: Motolite vs Cane Creek vs Avid Ultimate- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 35 of 35
  1. #1
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941

    V's: Motolite vs Cane Creek vs Avid Ultimate

    So going to go back to V's for my custom monstercross. I know some will say "go disc" but I object to ruining the lines with such. Keep 'em on mtb's and commuters. Anyway, it's been probably 8-9 years since I sized up v-brakes but the following 3 have always been a favorite eye candy wise...question is how do they all stop? 8 years ago I couldn't afford any of them so now I can so figuring out which. The 3 I've narrowed it down to and only these 3 are:

    -Paul's Motolite (winning from a shear classic look standpoint I'll admit)
    -Cane Creek Direct Curve 5's (Had more than one say these were the best)
    -Avid Ultimate's (I had a set then had to sell them so part of the interest)

    Paul's I hear are solid stoppers. Like the looks, like American made, and like Paul's outlook so want to support. That's what I'm leaning towards. Will run Cane Creek's V-levers as they are the only all black ones out there.

    Also considering Tektro Mini-V's. Really pretty cheap for what they are, but heard you have to run 'em close to the rim. Pretty dry here so debating, but may just wait for when I build a geared custom monstercross.

    Currently using Avid Shorty's on my current monstercross and Magura Marta SL's on the Ragley.
    Thanks in advance.
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  2. #2
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
    Reputation: Drevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,907
    I've had all three. My order of preference is Avid, Paul, then Cane Creek. I still have the first two.

    I like the Avid for two reasons over the Paul: it has a rubber boot at the end which prevents the noodle from getting crap inside, and it doesn't require an open end wrench like the Paul does to set the tension.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  3. #3
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I've had all three. My order of preference is Avid, Paul, then Cane Creek. I still have the first two.

    I like the Avid for two reasons over the Paul: it has a rubber boot at the end which prevents the noodle from getting crap inside, and it doesn't require an open end wrench like the Paul does to set the tension.
    So let's say I just take some rubber boots laying around and put them on the Paul's. And that I'm a set and forget kind of guy. How do they stack up side by side for feel? I'm guessing they'd be pretty close.
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  4. #4
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I've had all three. My order of preference is Avid, Paul, then Cane Creek. I still have the first two.

    I like the Avid for two reasons over the Paul: it has a rubber boot at the end which prevents the noodle from getting crap inside, and it doesn't require an open end wrench like the Paul does to set the tension.
    Also curious....what did you not like about the Cane Creek's? And did you have the 3's or the 5's?
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mudge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,447
    I've got a set of the TRP mini-Vs. If you want 'normal' lever feel, you have to set them up pretty close to the rim. But, you can set them up with a bit more clearance and they'll still stop like crazy, just with the lever a little closer to the bar than you're probably used to. It took me awhile to get used to it, it feels almost as if they aren't going to work. Just as you're about to bottom out the lever, BAM, they stop. Not panicky, grabby... normal-like, but near the end of the lever pull, yet still not bottoming out.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    109
    I haven't used Pauls or Cane Creeks but really love my Avid Ultimates. They have plenty of stopping power! I'm about 230# and have never had a set of V-brakes stop me so quickly and with so much control. In addition they are simple and easy to set up/adjust.

    Happy trails,
    Winky

  7. #7
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
    Reputation: Drevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,907
    On the Pauls, look at the amount of space between the end of the noodle and the anchor point. It's short, so a standard boot won't fit. What I ended up doing is swapping the Paul noodle for an Avid noodle, along with its short boot.

    Another thing I didn't like about the Paul is how long and straight they were, meaning the ends stuck out more. I ended up dragging the inside of my leg on them a few/several times. The Avid curve inwards at the top of the arms, providing more clearance.

    If you are looking purely for the performance, they both work fine. Actually, solid stoppers all three. For East Coast dirt/mud riding, the Avids were better designed than the Paul, IMHO.

    It's been so long that I had the Cane Creeks. I'm not sure why I got rid of them. Maybe I just liked the other two better?
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    986
    I have been checking out the new Avid Ultimate cantilevers. I know the ultimates on your choice list are V's, but the new Ultimate cantis are pretty cool looking brakes too and perhaps not a bad choice for a commuter type bike.
    http://www.cxmagazine.com/avid-short...locross-review

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    70
    I put the Avid Ultimate canty's on my cx bike this fall. They do look great and work well.

  10. #10
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by N10S
    I have been checking out the new Avid Ultimate cantilevers. I know the ultimates on your choice list are V's, but the new Ultimate cantis are pretty cool looking brakes too and perhaps not a bad choice for a commuter type bike.
    http://www.cxmagazine.com/avid-short...locross-review
    I looked at them but they still wont be quite the power I'm looking for on this monster cross project. They do look nice though.
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    121
    I'm running cane creek direct curve levers with Avid ults on my touring/cross bike. I couldn't be happier. Fantastic combo. That being said, I had motolites on my previous bike, and they were just as good. No experience with the Cane Creek V's.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTscoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,337
    I think you'd be better off wondering what pads to run than which rim brake works the best. I've only run Avid Single Digit 7s and they'll slow me down (260lbs with gear) in a hurry on my XC bike when paired with Kool Stop salmon pads.

    Pauls look really fancy and are super adjustable.
    Cane Creek direct curve looks nice but also looks like you'll have fat tire clearance issues
    Avids very solid and easy to set up. SD7s are so nice compared to SD5s I have set up on my old bike. I really cant imagine that the Ultimates are any nicer functionally, they're just a few grams lighter at 2x to 3x the price.

    The biggest issue with mechanical brakes is not the brand but the quality of brake housing, prep of that housing (filed housing ends, sealing housing as much as possible) and the pads themselves (highly recommend Kool Stop Salmons).

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,064
    Properly set up a good set of Cantilever like shown above will work as well as any V-Brake. They are also lighter and you can use just about any road lever. I would go with cantis unless you don't like the look.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: grouan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    258
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil

    I like the Avid for two reasons over the Paul: it has a rubber boot at the end which prevents the noodle from getting crap inside, and it doesn't require an open end wrench like the Paul does to set the tension.
    Right on target.

    Plus one on the Avids- I have had both Paul and Avids on XC bikes of yore. I found that the Avids are easier to set up and thus, in general, more powerful. I also like the low profile of the Avid brakes vs Paul...they Avids also look cooler IMHO.

    Now Paul levers....those are my all time favorite.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mudge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,447
    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp
    Properly set up a good set of Cantilever like shown above will work as well as any V-Brake. They are also lighter and you can use just about any road lever. I would go with cantis unless you don't like the look.
    The best cantilevers, set up perfectly, will not exhibit the same braking force as a good set of V brakes. Hell, the general feeling among cross racers that the best thing that cantilevers do for you is squeal alot so that the rider you're about to run into knows you're coming. The only reason to run cantilevers is for mud clearance.

  16. #16
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,820
    I prefer Vs, mostly for the reason Drevil states about the ends not sticking out. Having them tucked in close and narrow is nice. I have Shimano Deore Vs with Dia-Compe 287v levers on my Rock Lobster mofocross. I have used Tektro and Avid cantis in the past (and Mafac cantis in the early days of mountain bikes in the 1970s), and really prefer a V brake for clearance. Especially handy if you want to add racks and fenders; canti straddle cables can be a major PITA.

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gvxQgdNPZ8ETqQnEdWyxEQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_rrYqLPGLdY4/S-nqUeU4sPI/AAAAAAAAHgs/Bi4XoWgVYps/s640/P5111361.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/f3igyB00hHq-PhmefI6L1Q?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.ggpht.com/_rrYqLPGLdY4/S-nqVO0u9gI/AAAAAAAAHgw/1PDrZro83iQ/s640/P5111362.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by mudge
    The best cantilevers, set up perfectly, will not exhibit the same braking force as a good set of V brakes. Hell, the general feeling among cross racers that the best thing that cantilevers do for you is squeal alot so that the rider you're about to run into knows you're coming. The only reason to run cantilevers is for mud clearance.

    I don't think this is the case at all. I have ridden plenty of bikes with lots of different brakes and canti's can work very very well, as well as V's. Now I will agree that they do stick out an aweful lot and are not as clean as V's but to say they do not work well is simply wrong.

  18. #18
    the air is thin up here..
    Reputation: noot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp
    I don't think this is the case at all. I have ridden plenty of bikes with lots of different brakes and canti's can work very very well, as well as V's. Now I will agree that they do stick out an aweful lot and are not as clean as V's but to say they do not work well is simply wrong.
    I've fixed thousands of bikes. In my experience, only the best cantilevers can come close to the performance of even the cheapest v-brakes.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wabiker3576's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    94
    Avid still makes the Speed Dial Ultimate lever in black , it is my favorite lever for V-Brakes,smooth and adjustable. and I also suggest the Avid Ultimate brakes. Great combo Ultimate levers and brakes.

  20. #20
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,820
    I have Speed Dial Ultimate levers on an SS. They don't work on the bars on my mofo cross.

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xUTdSyDRYAd3eb02h0BDoA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_rrYqLPGLdY4/S-nqfj6iM3I/AAAAAAAAHhU/wK1fiQZVw30/s640/P5111370.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>

    I'm guessing @juansevo might be doing a drop bar and not a flat too.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  21. #21
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp
    Properly set up a good set of Cantilever like shown above will work as well as any V-Brake. They are also lighter and you can use just about any road lever. I would go with cantis unless you don't like the look.
    Yep I'll disagree with this one and think someone said it best when it was said "The best canti's can't match the performance of the cheapest v's"

    Also on the lever issue....that's easy. Both Cane Creek and Tektro make Road V levers that have nothing short of great reviews. And being this is a single speed monstercross....problem solved

    After talking to others, seems like the Avid Ultimate's are the ultimate V brake really out there so think that's what I'm going to go with. Really dig the Paul's, but I do have big ass calves and they don't like brakes that stick out. Nor do they like bleeding
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  22. #22
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by noot
    I've fixed thousands of bikes. In my experience, only the best cantilevers can come close to the performance of even the cheapest v-brakes.

    Well said
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by noot
    I've fixed thousands of bikes. In my experience, only the best cantilevers can come close to the performance of even the cheapest v-brakes.

    I wrenched on bikes from 88-97, pretty much the hey day of cantis and v-brakes. While I agree that V-Brakes work great there are many cantis that work exceptional as well. The problem was when Cantis tried to get all low profile, they lost the leverage that they needed for both power and modulation, but the majority of non-low profile canties worked great. Old Mafacs and their many clones are plenty strong for just about any riding where you may use V-Brakes. Now if you want some really nice brakes to work with road levers track down some IRD Widgets or some of their clones like Pauls or Strange and you will have a brake that works better than either, although a little more difficult to set up than either as well.

  24. #24
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob
    I think you'd be better off wondering what pads to run than which rim brake works the best. I've only run Avid Single Digit 7s and they'll slow me down (260lbs with gear) in a hurry on my XC bike when paired with Kool Stop salmon pads.

    The biggest issue with mechanical brakes is not the brand but the quality of brake housing, prep of that housing (filed housing ends, sealing housing as much as possible) and the pads themselves (highly recommend Kool Stop Salmons).
    I already have brake pads figured out. Someone is making the Scott-Matheurer pads again. Hands down the best. So that's easy.

    Cables/housing-Yokozuna has best reviews by those I know who wrench professionally and also hardly any real negatives online. Score. Will be trying those because I do agree with you there, proper setup lever to rim is important.

    Will disagree on brand, some are simply better than others in my experience. I've got 20 years shop experience and was using the original V-Brake, Marinovative (RIP), before Shimano came out with theirs.

    And yes sure not a huge difference between SD 7's and Ultimate's....but a difference nonetheless. These aren't going on a grocery getter but kind of a dream build for this rig, so neccesary? No? Set of brakes I've always wanted...yes. Came down to those 3 I careful choose as the best known V's out there...not neccesarily the cheapest, but the best.

    Def some great suggestions for cheaper brakes, I appreciate the thought and may slap some on the grocery getter/bar bike/beater the Surly Crosscheck will be turning into. But this will be a prize bike in my stable Everything else I read is pretty utilitarian.
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    541
    I vote for XTR brakes. I've had XTR V brakes on all my 29ers and I have had one set of ULtimates. The Ultimates have caused me nothing but problems including self destructing during a ride to Park City. Plus they are harder to adjust. I've never had to do anything to the Shimanos.

    jv
    MIA FL

  26. #26
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
    Reputation: Drevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,907
    Quote Originally Posted by jvossman
    I vote for XTR brakes. I've had XTR V brakes on all my 29ers and I have had one set of ULtimates. The Ultimates have caused me nothing but problems including self destructing during a ride to Park City. Plus they are harder to adjust. I've never had to do anything to the Shimanos.

    jv
    MIA FL
    Ha! He didn't ask about the XTRs, but it's what I use on my Mutinyman. I like them even betterer than the other 3 because they're relatively cheaper, easiest to set up, work well, and, er, match the titanium frame better Of course, I always use the salmon Kool Stops.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  27. #27
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,606
    I doubt you will be able to get the TRP shorty V's to clear a mountain tire. Those brakes are pretty much designed to be a CX brake that actually works.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    Ha! He didn't ask about the XTRs, but it's what I use on my Mutinyman. I like them even betterer than the other 3 because they're relatively cheaper, easiest to set up, work well, and, er, match the titanium frame better Of course, I always use the salmon Kool Stops.
    I am in total agreement with the XTR V's. The best V-Brake I have used especially when matched to the XTR brake levers. I have used the green pads on ceramic sidewall crossmax wheels and the stopping power is pretty significant. I have always liked the ultimate V's and levers, but for me personally they are overpriced (even used) especially when you compare against XTR.

  29. #29
    Squalor
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,573
    I've used Avid Ultimates, Avid Single Digits, Paul Moto-lites, XTs and XTRs. Mostly with Paul Love and Avid SD-Ti levers.

    Hands down my favorite is the Avid Ultimate with Kool Stop Salmon pads. Using that exact setup right now on my Kelly RoShamBo SS.

    The Pauls are a close 2nd but I found them "fiddly".

    XTRs are nice, but they look complicated to me and I just like the feel of Avid Ultimates better. I could tell no difference in stopping power.

    Good luck. V-brakes still rock!

    LP

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,064
    Well I think I am going to lose this battle (even though I am right ) If you have to have V's I will have to put in for XTR's also. Have them on a couple of bikes and my tandem. But they sure aren't the prettiest brake out there.

  31. #31
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,606
    do the shimano brakes still cause the pad to dive into the tire once the parallel push mechanism is worn?. I remember this being a problem back in the day when everybody rode V's, not sure there has been much motivation to fix it either.

  32. #32
    Dual Squishy...
    Reputation: Jeepnut22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    650
    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob
    I think you'd be better off wondering what pads to run than which rim brake works the best. I've only run Avid Single Digit 7s and they'll slow me down (260lbs with gear) in a hurry on my XC bike when paired with Kool Stop salmon pads.
    I have the same V-Brake set up and they stop incredibly well. New brakes and levers front and rear were like $60 total from Price Point. Then add the Salmon Kool Stops. Cheap, and great, even in wet conditions since the Kool Stops work so well in all conditions. Rivaled my 2007 Juicy 7s in stopping power IMHO in dry conditions easily...

  33. #33
    jrm
    jrm is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,274

    Tektro Mini-V's

    ran these on a cross check a while back. B/c you have to run them so close to the rim, it makes wheel removal tough. The arms dont retract outward far enough so the pads will hang up on the sidewall of the tires. If you use a tire bigger then say a 32c youll have to deflate the tire to get the wheel out.

    I use Deore full sized Vs on my CX bike combined with the CC V levers. Great modulation, feel and cheap. Also the CC v levers are a it more comfortable then the 287s IMO.

    Why wont someone make a STI shifter thats V brake compatible w/o using a crutch.

  34. #34
    251
    251 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 251's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    544
    I have some Pauls Motolites, Neo-Retro and Touring brakes. All are great brakes, though I think the Neo-Retro and Touring are better than the Motolites.

    The Neo-Retro and Touring brakes have been working for several years trouble free. The Motolites have had some minor issues and one serious problem. I imagine my situation was isolated, though I don't know for sure. I contacted Pauls about the problem and I did not receive a response. Shortly after this incident I switched to discs and haven't used the Motolites since.

    Anyway, here are some photos for you:

    Motolite


    Neo-Retro


    Touring
    Dave

  35. #35
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by jvossman
    I vote for XTR brakes. I've had XTR V brakes on all my 29ers and I have had one set of ULtimates. The Ultimates have caused me nothing but problems including self destructing during a ride to Park City. Plus they are harder to adjust. I've never had to do anything to the Shimanos.

    jv
    MIA FL
    You know didn't even cross my mind because I didn't know they still even made a v-brake. I did always like how they worked.

    Still....I may go Ultimates. Part of the fun of this build is it will be new from the ground up, and I'm going to use Thomson post/stem as well as the Hive/e.thirteen cranks most likely so the Avid's would fit the "look" just about perfect
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

Members who have read this thread: 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.