The ultimate belt drive 29er- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    The ultimate belt drive 29er

    I have been working with Strong bicycles over the last few months to create the ultimate belt drive 29er.

    Here are the components being used
    Edge 29er XC rims
    Sapim Cxrays on DS
    WS 2.0-1.7 on NDS
    Custom 80mm Phil wood disc hubs with a thru axle front

    Custom belt drive cogs
    Custom belt drive front cog that fits a White Industries ENO 180mm crank

    Edge stem/bars/seatpost
    Hope disc brakes

    These will be shipped to Strong this week for final assembly.

    The fork will be a Fox and the frame will be made of Ti.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/zencycl...7623374552958/
    enjoy!
    Last edited by Zen Cyclery; 02-07-2010 at 05:53 PM.
    Check out www.zencyclery.com for fully customizable, handbuilt wheels.

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  2. #2
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    Mikesee is the only one who blatantly spams this forum. Please drop him a line telling him the monopoly is over, and proceed with some big and colorful SPAM signatures as well. Thanks!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Mikesee is the only one who blatantly spams this forum. Please drop him a line telling him the monopoly is over, and proceed with some big and colorful SPAM signatures as well. Thanks!
    will do
    Check out www.zencyclery.com for fully customizable, handbuilt wheels.

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  4. #4
    Cassoulet forever !
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    This is some very intereting mods.
    Could you tell us more about the custom pulleys ? Were they made by Gates ? Seems to me that they were machined, may be by P.W.
    What ratio are you going to use ?

    And what about the hubs, why didn(t you go with the 110mm as used by jones ?
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  5. #5
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    Holy crap. I can't wait to see the frame these cherries are being bolted to. Phil Wood is doing some nice custom work in support of this belt drive stuff. I intend to pay them a visit to look into a Speedhub setup.
    speedub.nate
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  6. #6
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    That thing is going to be Gorgeous!!! Can't wait to see it built up.
    My Bikes Kick Ass!!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20.100 FR
    This is some very intereting mods.
    Could you tell us more about the custom pulleys ? Were they made by Gates ? Seems to me that they were machined, may be by P.W.
    What ratio are you going to use ?

    And what about the hubs, why didn(t you go with the 110mm as used by jones ?
    The drive rings are custom made by Phil Wood. Pictured is a 46 front with a 27, 28, and 29 rear. They are CNC aluminum 6061... I think
    Check out www.zencyclery.com for fully customizable, handbuilt wheels.

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  8. #8
    is buachail foighneach me
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    With a 46t belt drive front sprocket, how long are those chainstays going to be?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    With a 46t belt drive front sprocket, how long are those chainstays going to be?
    Im not really sure that is up to Carl Strong.
    Check out www.zencyclery.com for fully customizable, handbuilt wheels.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery
    will do
    Hah, too funny.

    Looks like money. I'm sure all but one of my last several cars were cheaper than that bike (and some cheaper than just the wheelset). I'd love to thrash it.
    This computer system is not intended for use in the operation of nuclear facilities. -Mac

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach

    With a 46t belt drive front sprocket, how long are those chainstays going to be?
    I don't know if this addresses your question in any way, but a 46T belt drive sprocket is approximately equivalent in diameter to a 40t chainring.
    speedub.nate
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery
    Im not really sure that is up to Carl Strong.
    Nothing like building up a 10k mountain bike and not knowing the frame measurements.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusSommers
    Nothing like building up a 10k mountain bike and not knowing the frame measurements.
    The fabrication of the frame will start when the wheels arrive to the frame builder. Because of the very custom nature of the bike Carl wanted to have the wheels as well as the drivetrain in front of him before he began building,.
    Check out www.zencyclery.com for fully customizable, handbuilt wheels.

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  14. #14
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    Tough crowd in here. I'm going to take off my sunglasses and be dazzled by another hit of the gorgeous bling.
    speedub.nate
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  15. #15
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    I don't know if this addresses your question in any way, but a 46T belt drive sprocket is approximately equivalent in diameter to a 40t chainring.

    But much thicker, right? Requiring the chainstays to be narrower at that point. Ti builders don't seem to like dimpling their stays, so I would assume that means longer stays to get some tire clearance. Whatever though. I'm just speculating.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach

    But much thicker, right? Requiring the chainstays to be narrower at that point...
    Thicker, yes, for sure. But where it fits? A big "Idunno" from me.

    You could place the ring outboard of where a normal chainring would sit, clearing the stays at the crank but requiring more clearance near the dropouts. Or you could take the opposite approach. Or you could split the difference. I'm just not sure how it all works out.

    But you're dealing with a 10mm wide belt here. A chain is ~7mm in width, so it's a matter of splitting 3mm extra width where that counts, or up to 7mm extra width where it's just a matter of drive ring to stay clearance (vs. a 1/8" chainring).
    speedub.nate
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery
    Im not really sure that is up to Carl Strong.
    Carl Strong oughta check the Gates site, as the tail (limited belt length availability) wags the dog (chainstay length) in the case of belt drive applications.

  18. #18
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    To clarify...

    Hey Nate -

    It's the ring that matters. It's ~10mm thick, as opposed to maybe 2mm for a normal chainring. The chain/belt actually never comes near the BB/chainstay (picture it in your head, you'll see what I mean) so the width of the chain isn't what we're worried about here.

    Second, the drive ring/cog HAS to run on the middle position on the crank, and will only tolerate a pretty limited chainline width (50mm is probably the max) before the rear cog can't be moved out far enough to keep the belt from falling off.

    So long story short, the belt drives do make tire clearance/chainstay length issues considerably more problematic for a framebuilder. Having done this myself, I found that to run the belt setup, you basically have to accept a ~15mm reduction in tire clearance or ~15mm longer chainstays (or some of each). That's one of the reasons I don't ride a belt myself.

    -Walt


    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Thicker, yes, for sure. But where it fits? A big "Idunno" from me.

    You could place the ring outboard of where a normal chainring would sit, clearing the stays at the crank but requiring more clearance near the dropouts. Or you could take the opposite approach. Or you could split the difference. I'm just not sure how it all works out.

    But you're dealing with a 10mm wide belt here. A chain is ~7mm in width, so it's a matter of splitting 3mm extra width where that counts, or up to 7mm extra width where it's just a matter of drive ring to stay clearance (vs. a 1/8" chainring).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2xPneu

    Carl Strong oughta check the Gates site, as the tail (limited belt length availability) wags the dog (chainstay length) in the case of belt drive applications.

    ...except that the 3 (or whatever it is now) belt lengths they sell cover a whole range of chainstay lengths once the variability of the EBB or slider is factored in, so there's really just one minimum length and one maximum length for any given rig/cog size. That's assuming the sliders or EBB have something shy of an inch of fore-aft adjustability.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt

    ...the drive ring/cog HAS to run on the middle position on the crank, and will only tolerate a pretty limited chainline width (50mm is probably the max) before the rear cog can't be moved out far enough to keep the belt from falling off.
    Ah! So that right there seems to be the limiting factor as far as a frame builder is concerned? Sounds like you're not given any flexibility in being able to bump the chainline out away from the frame.
    speedub.nate
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  21. #21
    Schipperkes are cool.
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    If the cogs are not coated, like the real CDS stuff, they are going to wear out quite fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery
    WTF exactly how did you manage to get an edge seatpost and handlebar?

    i ordered a seatpost and handlebar from edge back in early december when i was told in mid-january they would not be avaliable till end of february or early march i canceled my order.

    now i'm seeing an edge post and bar

    i guess it's not what you know but who you know...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL 9000
    WTF exactly how did you manage to get an edge seatpost and handlebar?

    i ordered a seatpost and handlebar from edge back in early december when i was told in mid-january they would not be avaliable till end of february or early march i canceled my order.

    now i'm seeing an edge post and bar

    i guess it's not what you know but who you know...
    If I had to guess I'd say that Zen Cyclery is an Edge wheelbuilder/dealer, and gets first dibs on the other stuff.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by playpunk
    Edge wheelbuilder/dealer, and gets first dibs on the other stuff.
    We get special treatment? I was one of the top ten Edge dealers in the country last year and I have to wait in line just like everyone else to get stuff.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ligero
    We get special treatment? I was one of the top ten Edge dealers in the country last year and I have to wait in line just like everyone else to get stuff.
    I said it was a guess. Looks like I was wrong.

    Where's your steel helix sweetness?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by playpunk
    Where's your steel helix sweetness?
    Soon! I will post it up here when it is finished. The weather has been so nasty this winter that I haven't really cared about building a new bike just to have it sit.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by playpunk
    If I had to guess I'd say that Zen Cyclery is an Edge wheelbuilder/dealer, and gets first dibs on the other stuff.
    when i was having my issue with edge and i was trying to find a dealer that had a seatpost and sweeper bars in stock they (edge) said that my direct order through them would be first in line over dealers and that no dealer had a offset 27.2 post and sweeper bars yet.

    i ended up with a ritchey superlogic bar and a thompson masterpiece post instead.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt
    Hey Nate -

    It's the ring that matters. It's ~10mm thick, as opposed to maybe 2mm for a normal chainring. The chain/belt actually never comes near the BB/chainstay (picture it in your head, you'll see what I mean) so the width of the chain isn't what we're worried about here.

    Second, the drive ring/cog HAS to run on the middle position on the crank, and will only tolerate a pretty limited chainline width (50mm is probably the max) before the rear cog can't be moved out far enough to keep the belt from falling off.

    So long story short, the belt drives do make tire clearance/chainstay length issues considerably more problematic for a framebuilder. Having done this myself, I found that to run the belt setup, you basically have to accept a ~15mm reduction in tire clearance or ~15mm longer chainstays (or some of each). That's one of the reasons I don't ride a belt myself.

    -Walt
    i remember that you prefer relatively narrow tires. this is even more of a worry since i am considering a custom made belt driven 29er ...

    i would imagine that a lot depends on the size of the belt drive front ring. i can see that a 50t ring would limit the frame design (size like 46 tooth chain ring). A 39 front belt ring would be more comparable to a 35 tooth chain ring and should not be much of a concern.

  29. #29
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    Smaller ring=more clearance

    As I said, I wouldn't ride the setup personally because of that tradeoff. But with a smaller drive ring/cog, yes, you'll have more space and/or be able to run a bit shorter in the rear. The 39t ring is better than the 46 or the 50 in terms of frame clearance, but it still leaves a lot less room than a traditional chainring (not to mention the fact that you can run as small as a 32t traditional ring with no problems).

    If max tire clearance/stay shortness is on your laundry list of needs, I'd forget the belt drive. If, on the other hand, the belt drive is the main purpose for building the bike, you'll have to make some (relatively minor, IMO) compromises.

    -W

    Quote Originally Posted by hellocook
    i remember that you prefer relatively narrow tires. this is even more of a worry since i am considering a custom made belt driven 29er ...

    i would imagine that a lot depends on the size of the belt drive front ring. i can see that a 50t ring would limit the frame design (size like 46 tooth chain ring). A 39 front belt ring would be more comparable to a 35 tooth chain ring and should not be much of a concern.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt
    As I said, I wouldn't ride the setup personally because of that tradeoff. But with a smaller drive ring/cog, yes, you'll have more space and/or be able to run a bit shorter in the rear. The 39t ring is better than the 46 or the 50 in terms of frame clearance, but it still leaves a lot less room than a traditional chainring (not to mention the fact that you can run as small as a 32t traditional ring with no problems).

    If max tire clearance/stay shortness is on your laundry list of needs, I'd forget the belt drive. If, on the other hand, the belt drive is the main purpose for building the bike, you'll have to make some (relatively minor, IMO) compromises.

    -W
    i am running my spot SS with belt drive and can fit a racing ralph 2.25 (BIG tire for a 2.25). not bad, but i can see that it is a tight fit. chainstay length is min. 445mm on the spot if i remember correctly and i have it at about 460mm. i am running a 46 front ring but i assume a 50 works as well.

    isn't it possible to move the belt ring a little to the outside, there should be plenty space to position the rear cog accordingly?
    Last edited by hellocook; 02-10-2010 at 02:19 PM.

  31. #31
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    Email me.

    I wasn't trying to get into an in-depth discussion of this, but keep in mind that a singlespeed 29er with a conventional chain drivetrain can pretty easily be built with 430mm chainstays without even doing anything very funky. If you get silly, you can go quite a bit shorter than that. So it's a matter of degree. Can a belt drive system be built with <450mm stays? Sure. But no matter how short you get 'em, a chain drive can always go significantly shorter, at least with the parts available right now.

    That said, "shorter" isn't always the same as "better", so as usual it's a matter of individual preference, fit, and riding style.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by hellocook
    i am running my spot SS with belt drive and can fit a racing ralph 2.25 (BIG tire for a 2.25). not bad, but i can see that it is a tight fit. chainstay length is min. 445mm on the spot if i remember correctly and i have it at about 460mm. i am running a 46 front ring but i assume a 50 works as well.

    isn't it possible to move the belt ring a little to the outside, there should be plenty space to position the rear cog accordingly?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery

    ...Custom 80mm Phil wood disc hubs with a thru axle front...
    So, I understand the rest of your build, but not these. Those hubs look to be QR15, but what exactly is 80mm? Flange-flange?



    Sounds like one sweet build!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckc1971

    ...what exactly is 80mm? Flange-flange?
    I'd guess that's an 80mm flange.
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  34. #34
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    I'm sorry, but the ultimate belt driven bike has already been built.

    Walt: The chainstays on the linked bike look to be around 17.4" not too shabby for 2.5 " of suspension added.

    OP: Good luck with your project. Looks bling.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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