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  1. #1
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    Tantrum Shinning makes Best of Test'18

    Not a bad mention from the year long test of the Shinning, 170 fr/165 rr 29er.

    Best of Test '18
    Tantrum Shinning makes Best of Test'18-2019-shinning-lizard-s.jpg

    The article itself is fairly light, as they did a more comprehensive review of the bike early this year.

    The challenge was that they were to use this bike as a test bed for everything else they were testing, droppers, forks, etc. So it was horsewhipped, flogged and parts swapped over and over in the course of the year.

    "Tantrum Cycles and the Missing Link are a huge success, standing their ground and proving its worth against the big ones in a full season of hard charging and being used as official testing platform by TNI-de" "the result is something very innovative and a great bike....from a one man show truly challenging the big player's bikes"

    Ya, it's an obscure German website....I'll take it. I'll ****in take it. They had the bike all year without me baby sitting. Nervous as hell.

    "it was a real pleasure to ride this bike over the course of the year"

    I let just a hint of a tear roll as I quietly sipped a fine glass of tequila in celebration

    BEST of* TEST’18 – 5. Teil (Innovative Bikes)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    [FONT="]Not a bad mention from the year long test of the Shinning, 170 fr/165 rr 29er. [/FONT]

    [FONT="]Best of Test '18
    [/FONT]
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2019 shinning lizard s.jpg 
Views:	143 
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    [FONT="]The article itself is fairly light, as they did a more comprehensive review of the bike early this year.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]The challenge was that they were to use this bike as a test bed for everything else they were testing, droppers, forks, etc. So it was horsewhipped, flogged and parts swapped over and over in the course of the year.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]"Tantrum Cycles and the Missing Link are a huge success, standing their ground and proving its worth against the big ones in a full season of hard charging and being used as official testing platform by TNI-de" "the result is something very innovative and a great bike....from a one man show truly challenging the big player's bikes"[/FONT]

    [FONT="]Ya, it's an obscure German website....I'll take it. I'll ****in take it. They had the bike all year without me baby sitting. Nervous as hell.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]"it was a real pleasure to ride this bike over the course of the year"[/FONT]

    I let just a hint of a tear roll as I quietly sipped a fine glass of tequila in celebration

    BEST of* TEST’18 – 5. Teil (Innovative Bikes)
    Is the Shinning a new model?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Is the Shinning a new model?
    more like a late development. I started floating the idea when I built one to test before the Kickstarter was over. A few people definitely wanted it so I have been testing some different geo options looking at full production model next year.

    62 degree HTA, 75.5 STA, 348 BB, 440 CS

    180 mm fr/165 rr

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    more like a late development. I started floating the idea when I built one to test before the Kickstarter was over. A few people definitely wanted it so I have been testing some different geo options looking at full production model next year.

    62 degree HTA, 75.5 STA, 348 BB, 440 CS

    180 mm fr/165 rr
    Wait... did you say 62 degree HTA?
    =sParty
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    more like a late development. I started floating the idea when I built one to test before the Kickstarter was over. A few people definitely wanted it so I have been testing some different geo options looking at full production model next year.

    62 degree HTA, 75.5 STA, 348 BB, 440 CS

    180 mm fr/165 rr
    Shining or Shinning?

  6. #6
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    Congratulations Brian! I'm in the market for a new bike right now, and the Shinning would be in the running if there were any available. Hopefully, an angel will drop off a big bag of cash for you at Christmas so you can get production up to a steady stream.

  7. #7
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    Any idea when the Outburst will be available?Also,if I ordered one could I get the XC version right out of the box or would I have to by the parts to make it an XC version?

  8. #8
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    Im going to catch hell for this, but I am getting quite tired of you trying to up sell your product on these forums. How would these forums look if specialized, or yeti or any of the other bike companies did this every time they got a "best of". If it was a MTBR test then they can post their findings and announce a winner. But please in the meantime, please stop spamming the forums with your products. If the other bike companies are unable to do it then you need to stop. I have seen clothing companies start up and others get told to stop before. So how you get a pass from the MTBR admins is beyond me. But please stop with the spam post. At the very least, get one of your shrills to do it.

  9. #9
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    You will not catch hell but I suspect a bit of heat! Its your opinion and that's fine. It's an open forum to read or not read about any given topic. Merry Christmas!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Im going to catch hell for this, but I am getting quite tired of you trying to up sell your product on these forums. How would these forums look if specialized, or yeti or any of the other bike companies did this every time they got a "best of". If it was a MTBR test then they can post their findings and announce a winner. But please in the meantime, please stop spamming the forums with your products. If the other bike companies are unable to do it then you need to stop. I have seen clothing companies start up and others get told to stop before. So how you get a pass from the MTBR admins is beyond me. But please stop with the spam post. At the very least, get one of your shrills to do it.
    It's a very fine line. I'm often the one that catches people who do this and tell them if for it. I haven't done it to tantrum because at the beginning at least it was pretty informative, and as it's a different design than everyone else is doing it was interesting. There are some guys in the light forum that do this too, but they always also are there to provide information, so they net positive.

    Tantrum may be on the other side of the line by now though. Bikes are shipped. Bikes are getting reviewed. Maybe it's time to let organic marketing take over.

    Your post is not unreasonable, though.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Im going to catch hell for this, but I am getting quite tired of you trying to up sell your product on these forums. How would these forums look if specialized, or yeti or any of the other bike companies did this every time they got a "best of". If it was a MTBR test then they can post their findings and announce a winner. But please in the meantime, please stop spamming the forums with your products. If the other bike companies are unable to do it then you need to stop. I have seen clothing companies start up and others get told to stop before. So how you get a pass from the MTBR admins is beyond me. But please stop with the spam post. At the very least, get one of your shrills to do it.
    maybe trying to turn the tables a bit ? lay down some truth to undo some damage a lot of clowns have done to BB ?...when BB first announced his design all the entrenched 'experts' in this and other forums chimed in and ragged on the design it'll never work, ride like garbage, kinematics all wrong, look at the charts. a total fight. BB pressed on, and others (like me for example) picked up pretty early that the design was sound and worth a look.

    still one guy with his own loot trying to build bikes. no support from the experts that other lemmings here worship their every word on kinematics.

    ok so now reality. kickstarter funded and produced about 60 bikes.... the bike is, and I am not afraid to say it, better climbing and descending than any other bike you can buy today with the same travel. maybe too much flag waving now and maybe you are right, but I sorta like that all the douche experts standing firmly on trying to point out why the bike will suck are now eating crow, and -silent- about it. it's sorta funny in that way
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  12. #12
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    To be fair smaller companies are more engaged on the forums and the bigger ones are more hands off. In the former case they are still working on getting to a sustainable size and establishing themselves and in the later case they have a big enough following some member will post anything relevant for them without them having to.

    If Brian is keeping his keeping his posts contained to a few well defined threads he started I don't have an issue since you or I can avoid the content easily if we want to. If he was popping up in a bunch of unrelated threads and posting about his bikes I'd say ya that's over the line in terms of SPAM.

    MTBR can shut him down anytime they like if they feel he's over stepped.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  13. #13
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    I cringe at the mere mention of getting shinned.

  14. #14
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    I enjoy the guys enthusiasm. Id rather read his posts than most of what gets posted on MTBR.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Im going to catch hell for this, but I am getting quite tired of you trying to up sell your product on these forums. How would these forums look if specialized, or yeti or any of the other bike companies did this every time they got a "best of". If it was a MTBR test then they can post their findings and announce a winner. But please in the meantime, please stop spamming the forums with your products. If the other bike companies are unable to do it then you need to stop. I have seen clothing companies start up and others get told to stop before. So how you get a pass from the MTBR admins is beyond me. But please stop with the spam post. At the very least, get one of your shrills to do it.
    I rarely start a thread. In fact, I hadn't been on MTBR for some time until somebody told me that a thread had caught fire (in 2016) on the All Mountain forum and I might want to check it out as bad things were being said.

    So ya, after slogging thru pages of outright BS, lies and insults, I've paid my dues on this forum. In a much more personal way than most....

    That thread now has the highest number of replies and 3rd highest number of views of any non-sticky, in the history of the All Mountain forum.

    Why? If you ask me, it's because people like the story. this isn't Specialized. It's me. It's you. It's one guy, a die hard mountain biker that left his high paying race car engineering world to be more immersed in what he loves. and dammit, it just might be working. At 61, I am a Professional Mountain Biker. and I have the privilege of being allowed to share my art (bikes) with others.

    If I were reading this story about anyone else, I would be cheering. I would be saying, "go man, the world needs more of this". Because it does.

    It needs people to be creative, take chances AND be able to get it out there.

    It's true, mtbr has probably accounted for a few sales, more in the future. Partly because I met a lot of mtbr members and rode with them. On their trails. Like Mr Harryman above and many others here.

    I consider these people my friends and part of the story.

    Just to flip it a bit, wouldn't it be fun if Mike Synyard, Rob Roscop and those guys popped in once in awhile? It might be fun to hear from them instead of marketing staff. But then, why the hell would they? Masochistic?

    I enjoy posting here. I enjoy the conversations and discussions. I do try to limit my postings, even though I may want to comment on another thread, I realize my "signature" will be taken by some as spam, so for the most part, I keep my mouth shut unless it pertains to me.

    I'm grateful for the existence of forums and social media. I don't have a marketing budget, or anybody to do it. My money is going into the next batch of bikes. And my time....

    If it wasn't for mtbr, pinkbike, kickstarter and others, I'm not sure I could pull this off

    I promise, once more tests get published and I start winning them all and it becomes boring and routine and I have paid marketing staff....well, then you can rant at my stupid banner ads that keep coming across your screen. And maybe my "press releases" that seem to announce a lot of nothing every week.

    I'm having fun.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Wait... did you say 62 degree HTA?
    =sParty
    back to the fun.....you read that right. This is a monster truck, steep chute,freight train speed demon.

    Laughable roll over ability.

    And the Missing Link keeps the back from sagging in corners, so it turns amazingly well for 62 HTA. and will still climb anything

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Shining or Shinning?
    It started as the Shining. But an early customer reminded me of Groundskeeper Willy's Oscar winning performance as Jack Nicholson in the Simpsons remake.

    So it became the Shinning. Yes, it creates confusion. Oh well.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    Congratulations Brian! I'm in the market for a new bike right now, and the Shinning would be in the running if there were any available. Hopefully, an angel will drop off a big bag of cash for you at Christmas so you can get production up to a steady stream.
    Thanks Harryman. Especially thanks as you WERE there at the beginning. That seems like a looooooong time ago, doesn't it?

    I've squirreled away my kickstarter profits to make sure I can get the next batch done. Working hard. Spring. There, I said it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    I enjoy the guys enthusiasm. Id rather read his posts than most of what gets posted on MTBR.
    thanks

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Im going to catch hell for this, but I am getting quite tired of you trying to up sell your product on these forums. How would these forums look if specialized, or yeti or any of the other bike companies did this every time they got a "best of". If it was a MTBR test then they can post their findings and announce a winner. But please in the meantime, please stop spamming the forums with your products. If the other bike companies are unable to do it then you need to stop. I have seen clothing companies start up and others get told to stop before. So how you get a pass from the MTBR admins is beyond me. But please stop with the spam post. At the very least, get one of your shrills to do it.
    I get your point, but as long as he keeps to his own threads and don't invade others I don't see the problem. All you have to do is not click the threads, they're clearly labeled.

    (I'm not a Tantrum owner, but I would like him to succeed)

  21. #21
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    I get it, I am not saying that I do not want him to succeed but I am a "lets keep it the same for everyone" kind of guy. If you scroll down in the main forum section there is a BIG section for builders and manufactures to get there is own section and push their stuff in, Im thinking it is time for him to get his own. There is ALSO a frame building section in the forums for builders to talk about building bikes and pimp their stuff. This thread is nothing more than trying to sell a bike and to market a new bike that he is showing off. Again I bring up that Yeti and the other guys are not allowed to do this, so why is he. If you are making money off bike sales and it is past the level of trying to get a kick starter going then you are now advertising in sections that are not for advertisement. This would not be a issue if someone said "what should my next bike be" and him answer with a "I have this product". Nope starts up his own thread to advertise a bike he is hoping to sell and profit off of. If the rules do not let clothing start ups or other bike companies do this, why are we allowing him to? Get a spot in the manufactures section and start your own threads in there JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. We already have enough adds on this forum we do not need every marketing guy in the industry coming in here and pimping their own stuff. The standard was set that was not allowed for others, so MTBR admins stick to it others wise you do not have a leg to stand on when the next guy comes along to sell stickers, or wheel builder, or anodize guy, or the guy building up his steel frames in his garage. Tantrum is now a manufacture since he has made a production run and is now coming out with more and his own products. I am not saying he is a bad guy, or that I dislike his product, I just dont want to start the landslide of people marketing their stuff all over the place and us having to sift through it. If you want to be thought of as a serious bike builder, act like one. You do not see Knolly, or Canfield BOTH of which owners are on this board. Or any of the other smaller companies doing this. You wanted to swim in the deep end of the pool, and this is part of it.

  22. #22
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    You bring up some good discussion points. Intense has a company rep who posts almost daily on their forum. Very helpful and professional and relatively objective.

  23. #23
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    ......
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I get it, I am not saying that I do not want him to succeed but I am a "lets keep it the same for everyone" kind of guy. If you scroll down in the main forum section there is a BIG section for builders and manufactures to get there is own section and push their stuff in, Im thinking it is time for him to get his own. There is ALSO a frame building section in the forums for builders to talk about building bikes and pimp their stuff. This thread is nothing more than trying to sell a bike and to market a new bike that he is showing off. Again I bring up that Yeti and the other guys are not allowed to do this, so why is he. If you are making money off bike sales and it is past the level of trying to get a kick starter going then you are now advertising in sections that are not for advertisement. This would not be a issue if someone said "what should my next bike be" and him answer with a "I have this product". Nope starts up his own thread to advertise a bike he is hoping to sell and profit off of. If the rules do not let clothing start ups or other bike companies do this, why are we allowing him to? Get a spot in the manufactures section and start your own threads in there JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. We already have enough adds on this forum we do not need every marketing guy in the industry coming in here and pimping their own stuff. The standard was set that was not allowed for others, so MTBR admins stick to it others wise you do not have a leg to stand on when the next guy comes along to sell stickers, or wheel builder, or anodize guy, or the guy building up his steel frames in his garage. Tantrum is now a manufacture since he has made a production run and is now coming out with more and his own products. I am not saying he is a bad guy, or that I dislike his product, I just dont want to start the landslide of people marketing their stuff all over the place and us having to sift through it. If you want to be thought of as a serious bike builder, act like one. You do not see Knolly, or Canfield BOTH of which owners are on this board. Or any of the other smaller companies doing this. You wanted to swim in the deep end of the pool, and this is part of it.
    Did you notice how long it took GG to get their own manufacturers sub-forum? How big the trail pistol thread got before that happened and it got moved there? Cut Brian some slack. You seem to be confusing his huge success with the limited number of bikes produced with the word of mouth weight other companies have due to thousands of rider/owners. Wait til my tantrum arrives. Ill plaster this whole dusty corner of the interwebs with pictures of that thing being thrashed. It almost sounds like you have something to lose if Brian posts around here.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Did you notice how long it took GG to get their own manufacturers sub-forum?
    And Matt from GG posted regularly in those days. Now they've got momentum going it's not that frequently that someone from GG chimes in. OTOH if they won an award or their bikes are featured in a video some owner is posting it the same day so they don't have to.

    Anytime they want to MTBR can tell Brian to do something differently. If they don't and folks want to see his posts then it's up to the few [one?] people that are not interested to not click on those threads.
    Safe riding,

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  26. #26
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    When you say it wont sag in the corners, is that only when you are pedaling? Just curious how it all works.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I rarely start a thread. In fact, I hadn't been on MTBR for some time until somebody told me that a thread had caught fire (in 2016) on the All Mountain forum and I might want to check it out as bad things were being said.

    So ya, after slogging thru pages of outright BS, lies and insults, I've paid my dues on this forum. In a much more personal way than most....

    That thread now has the highest number of replies and 3rd highest number of views of any non-sticky, in the history of the All Mountain forum.

    Why? If you ask me, it's because people like the story. this isn't Specialized. It's me. It's you. It's one guy, a die hard mountain biker that left his high paying race car engineering world to be more immersed in what he loves. and dammit, it just might be working. At 61, I am a Professional Mountain Biker. and I have the privilege of being allowed to share my art (bikes) with others.

    If I were reading this story about anyone else, I would be cheering. I would be saying, "go man, the world needs more of this". Because it does.

    It needs people to be creative, take chances AND be able to get it out there.

    It's true, mtbr has probably accounted for a few sales, more in the future. Partly because I met a lot of mtbr members and rode with them. On their trails. Like Mr Harryman above and many others here.

    I consider these people my friends and part of the story.

    Just to flip it a bit, wouldn't it be fun if Mike Synyard, Rob Roscop and those guys popped in once in awhile? It might be fun to hear from them instead of marketing staff. But then, why the hell would they? Masochistic?

    I enjoy posting here. I enjoy the conversations and discussions. I do try to limit my postings, even though I may want to comment on another thread, I realize my "signature" will be taken by some as spam, so for the most part, I keep my mouth shut unless it pertains to me.

    I'm grateful for the existence of forums and social media. I don't have a marketing budget, or anybody to do it. My money is going into the next batch of bikes. And my time....

    If it wasn't for mtbr, pinkbike, kickstarter and others, I'm not sure I could pull this off

    I promise, once more tests get published and I start winning them all and it becomes boring and routine and I have paid marketing staff....well, then you can rant at my stupid banner ads that keep coming across your screen. And maybe my "press releases" that seem to announce a lot of nothing every week.

    I'm having fun.
    Keep having fun, Brian, & keep sharing your information. Coverage of Tantrum in the trade rags is too rare - glad you're pointing it out. I don't see this as self promotion; rather it's providing a useful service in an industry that is selectively tone-deaf to true innovation (feel free to use that phrase).

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Im going to catch hell for this, but I am getting quite tired of you trying to up sell your product on these forums. How would these forums look if specialized, or yeti or any of the other bike companies did this every time they got a "best of". If it was a MTBR test then they can post their findings and announce a winner. But please in the meantime, please stop spamming the forums with your products. If the other bike companies are unable to do it then you need to stop. I have seen clothing companies start up and others get told to stop before. So how you get a pass from the MTBR admins is beyond me. But please stop with the spam post. At the very least, get one of your shrills to do it.
    Brain is one man that hasn't even delivered 100 bikes total. Those other huge bike companies get mentions just based on the fact that they can afford to send Superbikes, 1 to every online tester out there.

    If Tantrum ever makes it past garage build status, I'd agree with you, but at this time, no way.

    We all need to fully support and embrace the one man show that is truly bringing innovation to the market.

    PS. And I don't own nor have a I ever ridden a Tantrum, I just like to support the underdog. But if the fit of the Tantrums, and final finish ever gets closer to what I'm looking for, I just might.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    This would not be a issue if someone said "what should my next bike be" and him answer with a "I have this product".
    Even though I have unlimited opportunities to do that, the very approach you suggest seems horribly wrong and spammy.

    I say "unlimited opportunity", because those people are SCREAMING for my bike...."long travel 29er", "trail bike that pedals well" "efficient pedaling long travel bike" "long travel and climbs well" "aggressive geo, long travel, good climbing trail bike".

    My presence would be a bit much...and it would seem like "ambulance chasing" in a way, stalking around the corner waiting for somebody to ask what bike. That's where I think my thousands of customers will start to chime in (like every other brand)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    There is ALSO a frame building section in the forums for builders to talk about building bikes and pimp their stuff.
    I don't think I belong in that league. These are artists in metal that can actually make their stuff themselves

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    You wanted to swim in the deep end of the pool, and this is part of it.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA

    It's a good thing I don't worry about being in over my head. Plus I'm pretty good at holding my breath.

    Because it's DEEP

  32. #32
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    Good discussion.

    After some thought, I have to agree with hitechredneck. This is a thread started by a company to boast about its product in the generic 29er forum. If that's not advertising, I don't know what is.

    If you allow this, you have to allow everyone else in the industry the same freedom. Even if you shrink it down to "small" companies (whatever that might mean), there's still going to be a lot more self promotion (read: advertising) in all these various forums.

    If it's responding to a thread started by a forum member, that would seem an entirely different situation.

    I'm not saying I'm for or against what is happening in this instance. But you gotta' be fair and let everyone else do the same thing.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by burtronix View Post
    Keep having fun, Brian, & keep sharing your information. Coverage of Tantrum in the trade rags is too rare - glad you're pointing it out. I don't see this as self promotion; rather it's providing a useful service in an industry that is selectively tone-deaf to true innovation (feel free to use that phrase).

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    thanks @burtronix, I appreciate your appreciation.

    As far as the trade rags, while not 100%, it still is a pay to play arena.

    Even PB, who I am eternally grateful for doing the initial review and article (which was mostly due to my relationship with RC). After that initial review, they seem to have lost interest. Same with Vital.

    Why? The conversations go something like this...

    (popular website):"hey Tantrum, your threads and reviews are breaking all our records for hits and comments, if you ran banner ads you would sell millions"

    (me):" cool, glad I could help drive traffic with new and cool stuff that's relevant and interesting to your readers. BUT, I don't really have any money to spend on ads (have you seen my website!!!) and furthermore, I don't even have any bikes to sell, so ads might be a bit premature"

    (me);" in the meantime, do you mind if I hang out and post stuff from time to time?"

    (popular website); "no problem. It's only helping us bring readers in and doesn't piss off our paying customers like doing articles and press releases on you would""

    (me):" cool, when i have some bikes and money, I'll run an ad"

    (pw); "cool, we'll even review your bikes and print some of your press releases that you keep sending about your new stuff and cool developments since the kickstarter of which we've printed zero"

    (me): "cool"

    I don't blame them. Yes, there certainly is "tone deafness to innovation" (might be an ad line in there), but I think most of the editors would swing a leg over just out of curiosity, but there are paying customers that keep them riding free bikes, and only so much space available. It's just reality.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post

    But you gotta' be fair and let everyone else do the same thing.
    BTW, after this whole thing lit up a couple years ago (with a thread I didn't start), I looked and watched at what seemed acceptable. As mentioned GG seemed to do a great job of growing grass roots support without drawing much ire.

    And I really doubt if they would by posting something new and cool here. They are an American and bicycle world success story. They deserve all the free press and exposure they can get.

    On the other hand, they weren't introducing a controversial new suspension that disobeyed the sacred linkage program, which is really the root of the problem.

    There are also a few other small start ups/entities that post their bikes here. Some of them even went out of their way to criticize my bikes (which I find a little distasteful, just from one builder to another)

    but they will post an article or review or production of a new model for sale.

    They should. To do this is IMPOSSIBLE. We NEED the grassroots support.

    It's not happening otherwise.

    I'm hoping when I get rich and famous I'll have the time to pop in now and again....and be welcomed...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    If Tantrum ever makes it past garage build status,

    We all need to fully support and embrace the one man show that is truly bringing innovation to the market.
    I wanted to object to the first line, but it's actually true. While my frames were machined and welded in Taiwan, I actually hand assembled every single frame and complete bike my own personal self.

    In my garage.

    while I need to divest myself of the hand assembling, I want to continue to have them shipped here unassembled and have them put together here. It was nice to see how each part came out and consistency, etc.

    But the second line is the thing. Really.

    None of this is easy. Yes, we do it for our art and our love, but man, it can be a lonely endeavor. And hateful. People don't fvckin like change or boat rockers. I have a tendency to sink the boat at times.......just to shake things up

    But my point is..the grassroots support. It means everything. This is like the home team cheering you on but in the visitor's court you're dog meat.

    I appreciate the hometeam.

    Sometimes, just every once in awhile, knowing that people are out there hoping I can keep going/ Keep shaking it up.

    thanks

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpkin411 View Post
    When you say it wont sag in the corners, is that only when you are pedaling? Just curious how it all works.
    and....back to the fun stuff.

    It is difficult to accurately, fully describe all of the interactions. But

    It's kind of like riding another bike with the lockout always on...until you hit a bump and activate the linkage.

    Except that is an over simplified on/off, binary situation. The Missing Link is a continuously fluid variable between those extremes and even beyond.

    But it's still useful to think of those extremes. When riding the Missing Link on smooth, level ground, it doesn't want to move. It has a tendency to stay at sag.

    Climbing, the chain force and linkage effect are much higher, to the point of extending the rear shock and steepening geo. On level ground, this doesn't happen, it stays firmly at sag. Pedaling makes it firmer, but doesn't change geo...in either direction..

    The Missing Link can be firmer in ALL non bump situations, because of its ability to react instantly and be SOFTER at, and only at the moment of bump impact.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Good discussion.

    After some thought, I have to agree with hitechredneck. This is a thread started by a company to boast about its product in the generic 29er forum. If that's not advertising, I don't know what is.

    If you allow this, you have to allow everyone else in the industry the same freedom. Even if you shrink it down to "small" companies (whatever that might mean), there's still going to be a lot more self promotion (read: advertising) in all these various forums.

    If it's responding to a thread started by a forum member, that would seem an entirely different situation.

    I'm not saying I'm for or against what is happening in this instance. But you gotta' be fair and let everyone else do the same thing.
    Thank you for the support. I am glad someone agrees. Now should I quote every line in a separate reply every hour or so to keep it at the top of the page...aka free advertising, adding to post count? Who has the 50% of the total post in this thread?

    To be honest, I really could care less about this bike, or company. I am more interest in what is fair for everyone else in the future and to keep this type of stuff from happening with every single start up that comes along.

    Few things that have kinda bothered me so far in this thread. Seems like quite a bit of bike press bashing, then wondering why they loose interest. Then making it sound like you are only being held down by the man because you are so much smarter and better than everyone else so they must oppress you ( playing the victim), maybe you are good at rubbing people the wrong way? Then 1 second it is "he has not even made a bike yet" to " then my thousands of customers" so which is it you are sending very mixed signals to anyone that might want to send money ( almost loose cannon feeling if I am honet) I don't know anything about the bikes, have done nothing more than watch the video of it going over a log so I really do not have a stake in the game as someone tried to make it seem like. Im just going by what could be a potential customer reading threads. If it was a billion bikes sold tomorrow it would not hurt my feelings, hell to be 100% honest I would be VERY happy for you. But what I do have a stake in, is how I feel advertising should go on this forum it is not MTBA (adds). Have you honestly even PMed the admins and asked if they would make you a marketplace section, or just looking for free press? If so, did they say no or did you say no but still want to use this site as free advertisement? I get the underdog story here and everyone wants to route for them but even a puppy needs to learn not to shit in the house. Consider me just trying to help with said potty training.

    I also noticed there is not a thread of self advertisement on pinkbike, vital, nsmb, or ridemonkey or single tracks. So either you are not as proud of your product to share the same thread on their sites. Or you know what you are doing is not allowed over there.

  38. #38
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    P.S. so I can help add to post count ( no charge of course)

    I would REALLY like to hear a admins thoughts on this topic and thread. I know they read these. If I am out of line in my thinking and this is acceptable behavior from a company. Please tell me and I will cease talking about the subject. You can do it in this forum for all to see or PM me. Either way I would really like the thoughts of the admins on this one.

  39. #39
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    Tantrum, just do as other manufacturers do, give away free or discounted product to shills that clog the forums with gushing reviews. Problem solved.

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    Hey. I was just curious about the name..I guess it really is the 'Shinning'?.. not the Shining correct? Not trying to be a downer, but have you considered going with something completely different since your original plan for a name couldn't be used. The Shinning just sounds a bit weird.. almost like a misspelled bike.. or laziness. Anyway, just my two cents. My apologies if I'm mistaken. Good luck with everything..

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Now should I quote every line in a separate reply every hour or so to keep it at the top of the page...aka free advertising, adding to post count?
    It's a lot easier to keep track and respond to salient points this way. At least for me.

    Rather than parse massive tldr run on paragraphs

    You worried about my freakin post count now?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post

    Seems like quite a bit of bike press bashing,
    Press bashing? Quite the contrary. I love the press and the job they do. I appreciate the hell out of RC at PB, BT at Vital and ZO at Bike Rumor for doing some initial tests....yes...for FREE

    They did it because they are interested and progressive and were allowed the freedom to do so by their respective sites.

    But reality is reality. If you were Fox, paying lots of money to promote live valve and PB gives equal airtime to somebody that sold 50 bikes.......you might be irritated.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    almost loose cannon feeling :
    oh no, my cannon is firmly anchored in string theory. Loose strings

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I also noticed there is not a thread of self advertisement on pinkbike, vital, nsmb, or ridemonkey or single tracks. So either you are not as proud of your product to share the same thread on their sites. Or you know what you are doing is not allowed over there.
    You aren't looking very close. Go to the DH forum on RM.

    GG has the longest thread there, still active and very well received by the monkeys. GG started it and has the highest post count by far. I watch it regularly to see what's up.

    There are a couple other small "start up" bike companies as well that post there, myself included. And not only do they not seem to mind, they actually seem to welcome it.

    this is actually ironic, because while the threads on MTBR and RM started out equally evil, the MTBR thread settled down quicker and became more productive, while the haters persisted longer on RM.

    Once I got a couple monkeys on bikes and they heard it from their own, they realized I'm just a rider making better bikes and became quite a bit more receptive.

    Why MTBR and RM?? Because this is where, almost simultaneously after the initial PB review, the forums erupted. With that many viewers, I had to go defend myself against the BS being posted.

    PB and the rest? For whatever reason, nobody ever started a controversial thread, so I never got engaged. I have posted demo info on pinkbike (and here and RM) and will continue to do so.

    I'm not really worried about whether what I'm doing is "allowed" or not. I'm sure there's a cop waiting to tell me........................in the meantime WFO

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    oh no, my cannon is firmly anchored in string theory. Loose strings
    This needs to be upvoted or some such thing.

    Cool concept. Best wishes! IMO, as Liz Phair once sang: They'd which success for themselves and their friends, and that would include lots of money....

    And no, I don't know Brian.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Thank you for the support. I am glad someone agrees. Now should I quote every line in a separate reply every hour or so to keep it at the top of the page...aka free advertising, adding to post count? Who has the 50% of the total post in this thread?

    To be honest, I really could care less about this bike, or company. I am more interest in what is fair for everyone else in the future and to keep this type of stuff from happening with every single start up that comes along.

    Few things that have kinda bothered me so far in this thread. Seems like quite a bit of bike press bashing, then wondering why they loose interest. Then making it sound like you are only being held down by the man because you are so much smarter and better than everyone else so they must oppress you ( playing the victim), maybe you are good at rubbing people the wrong way? Then 1 second it is "he has not even made a bike yet" to " then my thousands of customers" so which is it you are sending very mixed signals to anyone that might want to send money ( almost loose cannon feeling if I am honet) I don't know anything about the bikes, have done nothing more than watch the video of it going over a log so I really do not have a stake in the game as someone tried to make it seem like. Im just going by what could be a potential customer reading threads. If it was a billion bikes sold tomorrow it would not hurt my feelings, hell to be 100% honest I would be VERY happy for you. But what I do have a stake in, is how I feel advertising should go on this forum it is not MTBA (adds). Have you honestly even PMed the admins and asked if they would make you a marketplace section, or just looking for free press? If so, did they say no or did you say no but still want to use this site as free advertisement? I get the underdog story here and everyone wants to route for them but even a puppy needs to learn not to shit in the house. Consider me just trying to help with said potty training.

    I also noticed there is not a thread of self advertisement on pinkbike, vital, nsmb, or ridemonkey or single tracks. So either you are not as proud of your product to share the same thread on their sites. Or you know what you are doing is not allowed over there.
    I'll take credit for the press bashing, & offer a partial apology. I apologize for accusing the industry press for being biased. As Brian pointed out, they're doing the best they can with limited resources & funds. There's a reason they follow a pay-to-play coverage for new tech. They're in a tough business & advertising comes from established players, not startups.

    I don't apologize for my frustration with the uneven coverage of new tech. That's why I think it's important that startups be given a voice on MTBR. I don't think Brian is remiss in calling attention to a rare instance of industry coverage. You disagree, as is your right. Now let the mods do their job, or not, as they see fit.

    I'm not associated with Tantrum & I don't know Brian outside of MTBR. I'm just a fan of tech, especially mountain bike tech. 0

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might.... (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

  47. #47
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    I never heard from a Admin, so I am going with the "if they dont care, I dont care" approach. You will not get any more grief from me.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Tantrum, just do as other manufacturers do, give away free or discounted product to shills that clog the forums with gushing reviews. Problem solved.
    No need for him to give away free or discounted bikes to shills. I've talked about his demo bike on my podcast, and answered plenty of questions about it around here. I've been waiting for a production run that included a frame size large enough for me. Now that that's in the works, I'm buying one. Yes, paying my own hard earned money for a bike. Know what? My listeners will appreciate that as a statement more than anything I could say about a bike that was given to me. But, you know that, or you wouldn't have worded your post the way you did.


    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I never heard from a Admin, so I am going with the "if they dont care, I dont care" approach. You will not get any more grief from me.
    If you'd take that approach in life more often, it would be easier for you. Take care of your business, and let everyone else take care of theirs. When you have skin in the game, you can worry about someone else's business. Until then it's just a bunch of crap you don't need in your life, so ignore it.

  49. #49
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    the 'missing link' system is beyond legit

    I have one


    I'd shill the crap out of it 10x what I've done already... but don't, because bike is not exactly widely available yet and in threads such as 'what bike do I get that does XYZ?' I bite my lip and don't really want to point to this 'unobtainium' at this time...once production ramps up or some company licenses it and sticks it in it's own frame u bet I'll be an unpaid shill. super plush bike with climbing/sprinting chops better than 'all previous bikes here'

    of course it won't be for everyone, and there are fabulous other bikes out there yes, of course.

    but a) stupid simple and obvious linkage, maintenance a breeze and b) does what is says on the tin c) damn solid build, those links have no lateral play


    overbuilt
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    This needs to be upvoted or some such thing.

    Cool concept. Best wishes! IMO, as Liz Phair once sang: They'd which success for themselves and their friends, and that would include lots of money....

    And no, I don't know Brian.
    thanks Kosmo.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Tantrum, just do as other manufacturers do, give away free or discounted product to shills that clog the forums with gushing reviews. Problem solved.
    which of course would be easy if I had any. Or any to sell.

    But I will. And I will.

    I learned a new term, since I've become a bike company owner...Brand Advocate.

    As in, can I be a Brand Advocate for you? Wherein you give me a free bike and I plaster the intra web with cool content because I'm really cool.

    It's valid, it's why we sponsor racers and athletes. But one of the main reasons there hasn't been more press is the simple fact that I didn't have spare bikes to send them.

    The german journalist that did the test had followed me since the beginning. He asked for the bike to use for the year to do all the product testing, explaining that it would get great publicity since it would be shown in every test case, handlebars, dropper, forks, etc.

    I STUPIDLY said no, I didn't have any press bikes. So he bought one. He doesn't exactly want this wide spread, but probably doesn't have many readers here. and for me, it's a hell ya. Press believes in bikes, has to buy bike to test. Loves it.

    He is fair and reminds me of the flaws whenever we communicate....

  52. #52
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    Personally, so long as you don't start like a million new threads on your products and are just keeping the conversation going - I like it. mtbr ain't like it was in the heyday and it needs enthusiastic people/mfgrs just to keep the content interesting. The published content (and quality) between PB and mtbr is dramatic and this place basically survives on user content alone - be it end-users or small mfgrs we need to welcome ethos where we can find it.

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