Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87

    Tallboy feels slow. Tires??

    So riding a new Tallboy cc. Awesome bike but unfortunately feels slow to me. I am coming off a trek topfuel 9.8 which felt faster and noticeably better rolling resistance. Bikes are within 3.5 lbs or so total weight. That shouldn't be what I'm feeling. I question the tires on the tallboy that I know are heavier. Maxxis dhf in front. Ardent race rear. That minion front just feels slow! And is definitely more tire than I need for my Florida trails. So question is I assume going to a lighter tire would make bike quicker? Had barzos on my topfuel.

  2. #2
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,970
    Do you have data or are you just going by ďfeelingsĒ?
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smmokan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,738
    Quote Originally Posted by 1lawnman View Post
    So question is I assume going to a lighter tire would make bike quicker? Had barzos on my topfuel.
    A lighter tire might not make much of a difference... but a faster rolling tire will. The DHF is known for being grippy and aggressive. If it's too much, swap it out to something like a Nobby Nic, DHR or even a wider Ardent.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    396
    Front tire change will make little diff as the rear is more the cause----that ardent in the rear is pretty fast rolling---I doubt the tires are the issue.

  5. #5
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,497
    Yes tire make a huge difference in feel. DHF is slow stiff and grips better than anything else. Get some faster, lighter tires and the bike will come alive at the expense of DH grip.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  6. #6
    Rollin 29s
    Reputation: isleblue65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    715

    Tallboy feels slow. Tires??

    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Yes tire make a huge difference in feel. DHF is slow stiff and grips better than anything else. Get some faster, lighter tires and the bike will come alive at the expense of DH grip.
    Same observation on my new Ripmo with 2.5 DHF Front and 2.5 Aggressor rear.

    Pretty sure that the Aggressor is the main cause of the slow, sluggish, riding through sand feeling though. It hooks up on climbs and descending, but sometimes I find myself looking down to see if my air pressure is low or brakes are hanging up.

    My Forte Pisgah 2.35 tires on the last bike were fast fast fast in comparison, and still hooked up pretty well. The main advantage I see of the 2.5s (and 34mm inner rim width) Ibis 938s is air pressure can be run sub 20psi with low risk of rim hits or flatting out). My next tires may be something in the middle.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,372
    Slow tires make a bike slow for sure.

    I love the DHF/ Aggressor 2.5 combo but it's a bear to pedal. I think some of that slow feeling is just because they have mad traction and barely ever slip.

    The key is to try and find the best rolling tire, that still has just enough grip for ya.

    I'm always experimenting and definitely like my Butcher 2.6/ Hans Dampf combo i'm currently experimenting with, but I do struggle with traction quite a bit.

    That said, I don't Strava, but I guarantee i'm notably faster over the course of a ride on these tires.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,850
    Id get an Icon for the rear and put the Ardent Race up front.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,289
    3.5 does make a difference when almost a pound of it is a difference in tire weight most a front. 2.2 XR2s on the TF are 630g each with small low knobs. They roll like a Nobby Nic for speed. Just last longer and cost less. For FL terrain XR2 2.35s at 745g would be plenty on wider rims at lower pressures. You'd have plenty of footprint and traction.
    2.3 DHF EXO TR is 925g. Ardent 3C EXO TR is 745g. The knobs are larger and taller. Not needed in FL. And slower rolling than your old tires for sure.
    If your TB rims are 29 inside your old 2.2s will go right on them(perfect width) at 14psi front and 18 rear to start. Adjust for rim hits.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    226
    I felt the DHF 2.5 up front made for slower going for me. Running Ardent 2.4 fr 2.25 rr now, much better.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87
    Awesome thanks for advice and replies! Looks like a lot of u have the same impression for sure. I considered the weight of the minion but didn't think much about the rolling resistance of the grippy tall knobs. I think that's it and yeah too much tire for my riding. Local shop has some vittoria barzo in stock. My favorite for local trails. Only thing is the are the 2.25 width. It's what I used to run on topfuel and they were fantastic. To narrow for this bike and its design? I am tempted. I could always try and order the 2.35 version.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    129
    I need a dhf riding in western Canada, you don't in Florida. I'd like lighter faster tires but that is dumb when I need them for going down. In Florida grab a couple Reckons and lighten up. Throw a huck norris in the back if you are a bit worried.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,169
    You??
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,726
    Quote Originally Posted by 1lawnman View Post
    So riding a new Tallboy cc. Awesome bike but unfortunately feels slow to me. I am coming off a trek topfuel 9.8 which felt faster and noticeably better rolling resistance. Bikes are within 3.5 lbs or so total weight. That shouldn't be what I'm feeling. I question the tires on the tallboy that I know are heavier. Maxxis dhf in front. Ardent race rear. That minion front just feels slow! And is definitely more tire than I need for my Florida trails. So question is I assume going to a lighter tire would make bike quicker? Had barzos on my topfuel.
    Couple things.

    1) Tallboy vs Top Fuel. Tallboy is more "trail bike" and Top fuel is more "race bike" so I am not shocked on the feeling at all.

    2) 3.5lbs is actually alot of weight

    3) DHF are boat anchor slow. They very grippy, but slow rolling tires.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,491
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Couple things.

    1) Tallboy vs Top Fuel. Tallboy is more "trail bike" and Top fuel is more "race bike" so I am not shocked on the feeling at all.

    2) 3.5lbs is actually alot of weight

    3) DHF are boat anchor slow. They very grippy, but slow rolling tires.
    Actually a few things, but everything said in this quote is true. Heck I went from a Magic Mary 2.35 (29) front to a DHF in front and I could immediately tell the difference in climbing and descending. DHF is a really grippy front tire but weight is heavy even without DD casing. I would suggest you try out Schwalbe Hans in the front and Nobby Nic rear, all in 2.35. These are plenty grippy for FL and just as wide as the 2.5 Maxxis if not more. They are signicantly faster and you will notice the differnce. That Tallboy will come alive.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    4,029
    Have source for XR2 Team Issue in 29x2.35?

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,289
    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Have source for XR2 Team Issue in 29x2.35?
    You can buy direct off the Trek site.
    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...-tire/p/11866/

    Or have a shop that sells Trek order them if they don't have stock.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    286
    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Have source for XR2 Team Issue in 29x2.35?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-QTY-Bontr...2Ha8:rk:1:pf:0

    super deal

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,289
    Those are 4s. But a good deals for loamy terrain.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    4,029
    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    I have one of those XR4 on the front of a mid travel trail bike. Very good high volume round profile. A XR2 2.35 in back would be a good compliment for our local trails.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87
    Thx again for replies. Got some vittoria barzo 2.35s coming this week. That should work.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,289
    Quote Originally Posted by 1lawnman View Post
    Thx again for replies. Got some vittoria barzo 2.35s coming this week. That should work.
    Let us know.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,216
    Quote Originally Posted by 1lawnman View Post
    So riding a new Tallboy cc. Awesome bike but unfortunately feels slow to me. I am coming off a trek topfuel 9.8 which felt faster and noticeably better rolling resistance. Bikes are within 3.5 lbs or so total weight. That shouldn't be what I'm feeling. I question the tires on the tallboy that I know are heavier. Maxxis dhf in front. Ardent race rear. That minion front just feels slow! And is definitely more tire than I need for my Florida trails. So question is I assume going to a lighter tire would make bike quicker? Had barzos on my topfuel.
    when I switched from an ardent in the rear to an ikon I could ride two cogs higher, it made that much difference.

    I personally really dislike ardents, but havent ridden them in 4 years so they probably have changed some.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,229
    Ikon/ardent combo for fast riding in Florida. If you travel north to Appalachia, you might want more meat ... second wheelset with the current tires.
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  25. #25
    Rollin 29s
    Reputation: isleblue65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    715

    Tallboy feels slow. Tires??

    Everything Iíve read and experienced with the Minion DHF and Aggressor are that they are a compromise between grip and rolling resistance. While they are the slowest tire combination I have EVER ridden, they continue to blow me away with how they donít lose traction. This morning was the first ride with these tires in truly wet conditions along the same trails Iíve ridden for over 2 decades. I have never felt so in control over slippery rooted and rocky sections as I did today. In fact my brain told me to pop out of my clips on a particular climbing section that Is a real challenge to clear when wet. I pushed through it. These tires didnít miss a beat. They redefine what is rideable. Amazing.

    Iím on the fence about going to a narrower/ lighter/ faster roller because nothing is going to grip like these tires.

    It is a compromise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,372
    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65 View Post
    Everything Iíve read and experienced with the Minion DHF and Aggressor are that they are a compromise between grip and rolling resistance. While they are the slowest tire combination I have EVER ridden, they continue to blow me away with how they donít lose traction. This morning was the first ride with these tires in truly wet conditions along the same trails Iíve ridden for over 2 decades. I have never felt so in control over slippery rooted and rocky sections as I did today. In fact my brain told me to pop out of my clips on a particular climbing section that Is a real challenge to clear when wet. I pushed through it. These tires didnít miss a beat. They redefine what is rideable. Amazing.

    Iím on the fence about going to a narrower/ lighter/ faster roller because nothing is going to grip like these tires.

    It is a compromise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yep!

    They are amazing tires. However they really do drag the bike down.

    For me it's a constant battle between wanting the traction, and wanting to improve the rolling resistance. The lower RR really does result in a faster overall ride by a fair margin. However a couple of times per ride I can't clear climbs (or brake going downhill!) On things that I was previously able to conquer on the Minion combo.

    There is a very real difference.

    At this time i'm on a front Butcher 2.6 & a rear Hans Dampf 2.35 soft with a noodle. If I shredded both tires today I'd likely go Eliminator up front and either the same rear or maybe the new E13 with the fast rolling knobs in the center for the rear.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  27. #27
    Rollin 29s
    Reputation: isleblue65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    715

    Tallboy feels slow. Tires??

    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Yep!

    They are amazing tires. However they really do drag the bike down.

    For me it's a constant battle between wanting the traction, and wanting to improve the rolling resistance. The lower RR really does result in a faster overall ride by a fair margin. However a couple of times per ride I can't clear climbs (or brake going downhill!) On things that I was previously able to conquer on the Minion combo.

    There is a very real difference.

    At this time i'm on a front Butcher 2.6 & a rear Hans Dampf 2.35 soft with a noodle. If I shredded both tires today I'd likely go Eliminator up front and either the same rear or maybe the new E13 with the fast rolling knobs in the center for the rear.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Your observations are spot on! It probably makes sense to find that middle ground tire if you want something that is going to work for the greatest percentage of riding you do. The Minion tires drag you down on flat or slight declines or inclines the most. They are masters of steep climbs and descents, which for me are about 30% of my rides. Iím willing to give up something to get my ride times back to where they were with faster rr tire combos.

    I like the look of the Eliminator, as it seems like a good middle ground for faster rolling resistance and grip. The e-thirteen semi-slick looks fast, but my gut tells me that once those small center knobs started to round off on the braking side of the knobs after a few rides, theyíd start sliding all over the place. Iím not sure they would be able to hook up on out of the saddle climbs either around here (loose decomposed granite and gravel)with the rear tire unweighted.

    The 34mm inner width rims on my bike push the recommended specs of many tire manufacturers too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  28. #28
    Life Is Short
    Reputation: fatcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,567
    The Tallboy w/ carbon wheels may help unless thats what you have now.
    Cheap people buy things twice

  29. #29
    Rollin 29s
    Reputation: isleblue65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    The Tallboy w/ carbon wheels may help unless thats what you have now.
    I have the Ibis Ripmo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  30. #30
    Life Is Short
    Reputation: fatcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,567
    ok this thread is so long i read someone elses answer. As a 20 yr veteran of more than 25 mtn bikes that i have owned, yes, some bikes seem more sluggish than others despite design, tires or price. I had a intense spider that didnt climb as well as a single pivot santa cruz or diamondback that I owned despite the price or design. You may swap out some low resistance tread tires and feel some differences but in the end it may wont make much of a diff. if comparing it to a previous bike. However you already spent good money on an Ibis and may just have to live with it or sell it later. Good luck.

Similar Threads

  1. XT M785 Lever feels slow
    By chrispes in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-23-2016, 03:26 AM
  2. New Wheelset feels slow
    By GatorXman in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-06-2015, 11:59 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-17-2012, 11:35 PM
  4. Slow, slow, slow!
    By Rideon in forum Site Feedback/Issues
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-16-2011, 08:13 PM
  5. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-22-2004, 12:50 PM

Members who have read this thread: 257

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2018 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.