Stans Arch + Stans rim strip = Tape or no tape- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    The Top Cap Guy
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    Stans Arch + Stans rim strip = Tape or no tape

    OK - I finally got my Stan's Arch 29er wheels done... I also bought the matching Stan's rubber rim strips (only to make the tubeless conversion of some tires easier) - my question -do I put any rim tape down under the rim strip? I have some of the yellow rim tape left from before but I wanted to use the rubber rim strips this go around... do I need any tape under there, can I get by without? Or should I put the yellow tape on there then the rim strip also? I've searched the No Tubes board but cant find this answer... so I come to the Holy Grail of 29er riders....

    Thanks in advanced!
    Fred
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  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    NO RIM STRIP.

    Don't use the rim strip, it's not necessary once you're using the Stans rims, just use the yellow tape - Seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  3. #3
    The Top Cap Guy
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    A previous set of Arch's I ran just the yellow tape/valves and had such bad luck I sold the wheelset - they would burp... randomly go flat overnight after weeks of holding air fine (and I ended up trying 8 different brand/style tires - yeah the wife loved that credit card bill...lol).. it drove me so nuts I sold the wheelset and went with some Velocity Blunts and tubes... well I'm giving them another try and I dont care that the rubber strip weighs more - I just want them to seal and hold air. Its frustrating when I had 26" wheels back in the day they were 'easy' tubless... the 29ers I've tried drive me nuts... so I'm thinking I may go ahead and put the yellow tape down as a precaution... unless I'm wasting it....

    Let me know.
    Fred
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  4. #4
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    A previous set of Arch's I ran just the yellow tape/valves and had such bad luck I sold the wheelset - they would burp... randomly go flat overnight after weeks of holding air fine (and I ended up trying 8 different brand/style tires - yeah the wife loved that credit card bill...lol).. it drove me so nuts I sold the wheelset and went with some Velocity Blunts and tubes... well I'm giving them another try and I dont care that the rubber strip weighs more - I just want them to seal and hold air. Its frustrating when I had 26" wheels back in the day they were 'easy' tubless... the 29ers I've tried drive me nuts... so I'm thinking I may go ahead and put the yellow tape down as a precaution... unless I'm wasting it....
    There was something going wrong with that last set up. Were you running a crazy low pressure? Letting the tires seat properly? Enough sealant?

    You really should not have to use the rubber strip. I know dozens of guys (including myself) that ride very hard with just yellow tape, and have no problems. The rubber strip is best used as a last resort on non -stans rims imo.
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  5. #5
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    no rim strip

    +1 on no rimstrip, tape only!

  6. #6
    The Top Cap Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by the munts
    There was something going wrong with that last set up. Were you running a crazy low pressure? Letting the tires seat properly? Enough sealant?

    You really should not have to use the rubber strip. I know dozens of guys (including myself) that ride very hard with just yellow tape, and have no problems. The rubber strip is best used as a last resort on non -stans rims imo.

    The set up was all new... I never went below 30psi... unless it burped on me during a ride (and for what its worth - Stans and leg hair sucks). I would put a new tire on - seat it with the air compressor - remove the valve core - add 2 scoops of sealant with the injector - re-air it up - shake it for 10 minutes - then put it on the bike and ride for atleast an hour... when it would randomly go flat I would add atleast another scoop to make sure it had enough...

    I've just had such bad luck - I only want to use these with the stans strip for now... maybe downthe road I will be adventurous again - but for now I want the best sealed possibility....
    "If I'm leading, I'm bleeding."

  7. #7
    Rohloff
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    Fat man on Flows + yellow tape - rim strip x3 wheels = No problems ever

  8. #8
    Stayin' Puft
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    Do yourself a favor, return the rubber strips and start with some real tubeless tires. If you use Specialized 2Bliss tires with stan's rims and yellow tape you will see just how easy and reliable tubeless can be for 29er tires. My favorite heavier-duty combo I'm running right now are the Captain Control front and Purgatory Control rear, both in 2.20. Great in light snow and rocks. For summer, the Captain Control 2.0 front and Fast Trak rear is a nice combo for faster dry trails. Stay away from the "S-works" casings, make sure you buy the "control" versions.

    On the Arch you have to use either the 25mm tape, or two layers of the 21mm tape staggered to ensure the additional small holes in the rim cavity are covered. Use a 3m abrasive pad on the rim surface first and clean with rubbing alchohol to make sure the tape sticks well. Stretch the tape to get it really, really tight, ensuring you are not leaving air bubbles. It's a pretty simple setup to do and it works like a charm. I inflate mine with a floor pump easily.

    I can't imagine putting the rubber rimstrips on an Arch rim.

  9. #9
    And He was Not
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    Freddy,

    I have a couple of sets of wheels set up each way.

    I have had some luck with just tape and stems, but if you want a more bomb proof set up, the rim strips will be the way to go. Make sure you lube up the tire with soapy water when seating it on the rim strip...
    The Truth is out there. Here it isThe TRUTH

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Freddy
    The set up was all new... I never went below 30psi... unless it burped on me during a ride (and for what its worth - Stans and leg hair sucks). I would put a new tire on - seat it with the air compressor - remove the valve core - add 2 scoops of sealant with the injector - re-air it up - shake it for 10 minutes - then put it on the bike and ride for atleast an hour... when it would randomly go flat I would add atleast another scoop to make sure it had enough...

    I've just had such bad luck - I only want to use these with the stans strip for now... maybe downthe road I will be adventurous again - but for now I want the best sealed possibility....
    What tire were you running, how much do you weigh, and did you try soaping up the bead prior to install?
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  11. #11
    Only dead people are old
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    Use both - put the yellow tape down first, then the rim stip. I am with you that many 29er tires just don't work very well with the yellow tape alone...there's nothing like railing a corner only to have your tire dissengage from the rim or burp in the middle of it.

    If you decided to run only the yellow tape, use tubeless ready tires. I use Bontrager Tubeless Ready and have never had an issue with just tape, otherwise I have had to use rim strips just to keep the tire safely on (exceptions were Maxxis tires). One other consideration is that with rim strips you have to drill the rim so going back to just rim tape is more difficult, but I have found ways around that also.

  12. #12
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    Hey Freddy, as with others, curious what tyres you were running? The current crop of Tubeless ready tyres available really do work fantastic, maybe consider trying one from any of the manufacturers who offer them - Bontrager, Hutchinson, Geax, SpecialED. Personally I like the Bonti's, the sidewalls are so beefy I've even been able to not add sealant and have the tyre hold air + they have a load of different treads paterns to suit your terrain.

    If you go with the rim strip still, I'd go yellow tape then the strips.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  13. #13
    mtbr member
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    The set up was all new... I never went below 30psi... unless it burped on me during a ride (and for what its worth - Stans and leg hair sucks). I would put a new tire on - seat it with the air compressor - remove the valve core - add 2 scoops of sealant with the injector - re-air it up - shake it for 10 minutes - then put it on the bike and ride for atleast an hour... when it would randomly go flat I would add atleast another scoop to make sure it had enough...
    You need to let the wheel sit on its side for a while (an hour or so per side doesn't hurt with a new tire) so that the sealant can work its way into the bead. Then flip the wheel over and do the same to the other side. Shaking it is a start, but you have to let the goo work its way around the edge of the rim. Riding it will not do that.

    This is especially important with a new tire, because they don't start out air tight.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by the munts
    You need to let the wheel sit on its side for a while (an hour or so per side doesn't hurt with a new tire) so that the sealant can work its way into the bead. Then flip the wheel over and do the same to the other side. Shaking it is a start, but you have to let the goo work its way around the edge of the rim. Riding it will not do that.

    This is especially important with a new tire, because they don't start out air tight.
    this is great advice. i usually would let it sit for about an hour or two flipping the wheel over every 15-20 minutes. set the timer on your cell phone as an easy reminder when to flip. with your method plus this extra step i have had no issued with ingnitors, nevegals, exiwolves, rampages, and mountain king. i burped a mountain king once because i was running psi way too low for my weight (20psi with 230lbs).

  15. #15
    Ride 'Til Your Knees Hurt
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    +1 for just tape, no rim strip!

    Rampage, Ignitor, Exi, WW, Ardent, Captain, Fast Trak, Saguaro, Jones, Nano...

    None of them had issues (no strip needed).

  16. #16
    wawe member
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    Yes on the yellow tape whether you decide to use a rim strip or not. In the event you cut a sidewall or have some other malady out on the trail which causes you to resort to using a tube you'll need the rim taped.

  17. #17
    The Top Cap Guy
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    ok - at the time I ran the Arch's the first go around - I ran these tires... all would seal up and be fine for days but randomly coming out to get the bike to go ride they would be dead flat.... Panaracer Ramapge, Kenda Karma, Schwalbe Racing Ralphs (which suprisingly I had the least trouble with), Maxxis Ardent, Hutchinson Python Tubeless Ready, Toro Tubeless Ready, Continental Mountain Kings, some Michelin XC-AT (or something like that) - thats all I can remember tire wise - there were quite a few and they drove me nuts. The only ones I used that were actually Tubeless Ready were the Hutchinsons and I didnt like the tread pattern....

    I'm right at 205lbs so I'm a Clydesdale - but I ride light... never have wheel issues... never do any big drops (no more than 2 footers - and rarely that high - usually by accident).

    I've run other wheelsets that were converted to tubeless with strips of some kind (American Classic's - and Bontrager Race Xlites)- and they all worked really well. So I figured for me I must need something with a rim strip... as I've tried the yellow tape over 4 months with bunches of tires combos... and had lack luster performance.

    Putting the tape down first with the strip on top makes sense if I have to tube it... so I'll go that route for now and hope I get no headaches....

    Thanks everyone for the input!
    Fred
    "If I'm leading, I'm bleeding."

  18. #18
    Addicted to Dirt
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    I had trouble with a wheel once and traced the problem to a bad yellow tape install, I replaced the tape and 2 years later it is still perfect... in fact my tires have not gone flat after a 6 month hiatus due to an injury...

  19. #19
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Freddy
    ok - at the time I ran the Arch's the first go around - I ran these tires... all would seal up and be fine for days but randomly coming out to get the bike to go ride they would be dead flat.... blah blah blah... and they drove me nuts.

    Fred
    thats part of the initial headache. random flats in the beginning. Just re-air it up, and ride it some more. Usually the leak is slow enough that you can last an all day ride, and will re-seal up in doing so.

    But after a while it stays, and is golden.

    Follow some of the advice above, and skip the rubber strips. If it wasn't sealing before, you will likely have the same issues. You need patience and persistance.

  20. #20
    Rider and Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    If you decided to run only the yellow tape, use tubeless ready tires.
    Really just curious but how does using tubeless ready tires have an affect on tape vs rimstrip on stans rims? From my relatively finite understanding most tubeless ready tires simply lack the airtight membrane/layer and require sealant compared to most UST tires, but compared to std tube type tires they have a beefier bead so "should" be less prone to burping etc...
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  21. #21
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    Tapes and Tapes

    Gorilla Tape was suggested once, instead of the pricey Stans yellow and Specs blue roval stuff, and like the homemade sealants, you can buy the tape many places.

    I recently converted my daughters wheels to tubeless using two rounds of Gorilla, a set of the most basic of Specs Fastrack LKs, (not 2bliss ready). One key characteristic I noticed, was that I had to use a tire tool to get the tire on, and this is always a plus in a 2bliss setup. At least in my amateur experience.

    Moo

  22. #22
    This place needs an enema
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    FWIW, I've had good luck solving the burping-when-ridden-by-heavy-guys issue by using 3 layers of yellow tape. No rim strip. After wrapping the yellow tape tight I stick a tube/tire on and inflate it for a ~2 mile ride at ~30psi to make sure the tape is stuck down well and there are no air bubbles under it. Then come home and set up untubed as normal.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    I read this advice somewhere on here before from Mike and I think it's damn good. The tape installed on my rear Flow somehow got F*cked so I have to get some and redo it, here's hoping for no stress since my trusty wheel builder did the original tape job 1.5 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    FWIW, I've had good luck solving the burping-when-ridden-by-heavy-guys issue by using 3 layers of yellow tape. No rim strip. After wrapping the yellow tape tight I stick a tube/tire on and inflate it for a ~2 mile ride at ~30psi to make sure the tape is stuck down well and there are no air bubbles under it. Then come home and set up untubed as normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  24. #24
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    +1 on Gorilla Tape. Seals well and acts as a rim strip if you manage to flat your tubeless tire and need a tube to get home.

  25. #25
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    Electrical Tape

    Hi Fast Freddy - love your caps.

    I have Arch's with non-tubeless tyres and you don't need rim strips.
    Instead of the yellow tape (which I never did like because it is inelastic) try electrical tape - put one loop in the centre, one to the left and one to the right but don't stretch the tape too much. Slice a neat hole for the valve (trimming the excess tape away) - position the tyre, soapy water the rim and inflate it with a track pump. Once the tyre is seated add the latex and reinflate making sure the latex fills all holes and check it occassionally over the next 24 hours and top up the air as necessary.

    I'm running crossmarks and Ignitors without a problem for 6 months (I'm overdue to top up the latex).

    Good luck
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  26. #26
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    I'm using the ztr 355s and after I put them together I

    fill the sink with water and go around the wheel and get all those little small leaks and that way I don't have the tire losing air right away. I am running some RRs, Kenda Karmas on the 29er and some continental supersonics on the 26er without leaks, or flats over the last year or so. Yellow rim tape only.

  27. #27
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    I use stems and yellow tape.

    If the tire is leaking air after I first put it on, reseating bead with sudsy water as a lubricant seems to help.

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