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  1. #1
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    Southern Comfort

    Rooty,rocky,steep east coast single track that beats up older riders like Gorilla Monsoon.
    What 29er would you go for ?
    steel, aluminum or carbon Hardtail with or without sus seatpost ?
    soft tail ?
    FS ?
    or FS 26" ?
    The catch is, it needs to be under 28lbs and be under $2500.
    Four bikes that intrigue me:
    Dos Niner
    *GF Super Caliber
    *Niner Zen
    *Orbea Alma
    *not yet released
    I am no longer considering rigid and realistically, aluminum hardtails are probably too harsh as well.
    Last edited by 1-track-mind; 02-10-2006 at 07:36 PM.
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  2. #2
    Squalor
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    My choice for your $$$

    Steel Waltworks built for Reba @ 100mm
    Moots ti Seatpost
    Brooks B-17
    Bonty XR / WTB Nano rear tire
    Exi front tire

    I bet you can do it for $2K and 26-27lbs if you try.

    LP

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanpope
    Steel Waltworks built for Reba @ 100mm
    Moots ti Seatpost
    Brooks B-17
    Bonty XR / WTB Nano rear tire
    Exi front tire

    I bet you can do it for $2K and 26-27lbs if you try.

    LP
    Thanks, I'll look into it. I wonder if one of these frames would be noticeably more comfortable than an Inbred ?
    Driving 2-4 hours and riding off-road 3 or more hours the same day is really starting to work on my lower back.
    Comfortable,light and affordable certainly narrows the field.
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  4. #4
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    I coulda bought an X-cal...

    For this type of rider/riding conditions, I'm now thinking that the minimum comfort level to consider is a softtail and the max to consider is FS with short travel. I'm wondering if the advantages of 29' wheels coupled with the relish shock give the Dos Niner enough in the comfort department, or do i need to move up to FS ?
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  5. #5
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    im older and from the east coast also...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    Rooty,rocky,steep east coast single track that beats up older riders like Gorilla Monsoon.
    What 29er would you go for ?
    steel, aluminum or carbon Hardtail with or without sus seatpost ?
    soft tail ?
    FS ?
    or FS 26" ?
    The catch is, it needs to be under 28lbs and be under $2500.
    Four bikes that intrigue me:
    Dos Niner
    *GF Super Caliber
    *Niner Zen
    *Orbea Alma
    *not yet released
    I am no longer considering rigid and realistically, aluminum hardtails are probably too harsh as well.
    so i know EXACTLY what you mean. infact this was a big reason why i went with a steel (soma juice) 29er. its a great value for money frame ($400), has excellent ride quality and came in at 26 lbs with pedals. i didnt spend anywhere near $2500 either. its very smooth, a ti post w/big tires (bonty xr's, exi's) would make it even smoother. the dos niner and alma will no doubt ride even smoother, but the soma will give you what your looking for at a much lower cost imho.
    by the way, im 41 yrs. old. not old, old, but older than most on this forum. im in the process of building a custom 29er designed SPECIFICALLY for our east coast terrain. Ted Wojcik is building the frame. hes definately worth looking into.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    Rooty,rocky,steep east coast single track that beats up older riders like Gorilla Monsoon.
    What 29er would you go for ?
    steel, aluminum or carbon Hardtail with or without sus seatpost ?
    soft tail ?
    FS ?
    or FS 26" ?
    The catch is, it needs to be under 28lbs and be under $2500.
    Four bikes that intrigue me:
    Dos Niner
    *GF Super Caliber
    *Niner Zen
    *Orbea Alma
    *not yet released
    I am no longer considering rigid and realistically, aluminum hardtails are probably too harsh as well.

    Sounds like you want some form of suspension the way you automatically cut the hardtails from your top 4 list. I've had a hardtail and an Asylum and live on the east coast. 41years old in May. Not old but yes it feels worse than it did at 31. The hardtail is a lot harder on the body than a FS bike. The FS bike is heavier thoguh. My Asylum equiped with pretty high end stuff was 28 lbs. It was way more than 2500. At this point I'm also intrigued by the Dos 9er and the GF SCaliber. The Dos seems like it would be light and more comfortable than a HT. The GF sounds like it would be pretty light, possibly lighter than the Asylum as well as a good bargain. From what fisher has posted about it, their tweaks to the tubing shapes will make it even stiffer and lighter. Leviathans are supposedly lighter than the Asylum and are going to be 4" travel in the spring but 2500 would be hard to accomplish with a 1675 frame only price. It's hard to know for sure without testing but with limited 29er testing resourses, places like this forum is the only means of info. for a lot of us. Most people with the Dos 9ers seem pretty happy. Some say they're flexy, others say it's not so.????

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    I've had a hardtail and an Asylum and live on the east coast. The hardtail is a lot harder on the body than a FS bike. My Asylum equiped with pretty high end stuff was 28 lbs.
    I put the Asylum and Leviathan at the very top of the full squish wish list !
    I can't imagine very many situations when you would opt for riding a hardtail over an Asylum unless you have something ultra-light.
    Is your hardtail steel or aluminum ?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    so i know EXACTLY what you mean. infact this was a big reason why i went with a steel (soma juice) 29er. its a great value for money frame ($400), has excellent ride quality and came in at 26 lbs with pedals. i didnt spend anywhere near $2500 either. its very smooth, a ti post w/big tires (bonty xr's, exi's) would make it even smoother. the dos niner and alma will no doubt ride even smoother, but the soma will give you what your looking for at a much lower cost imho.
    by the way, im 41 yrs. old. not old, old, but older than most on this forum. im in the process of building a custom 29er designed SPECIFICALLY for our east coast terrain. Ted Wojcik is building the frame. hes definately worth looking into.
    The Juice and Inbred are the only two hardtails left on my list. I think with a sus seatpost, they would do the job for the next five years or so. After that, I'm probably FS material.
    My biggest problem laying out 2-3k is knowing I have to drive at least an hour to get to a decent trail.

    Will the Wojcik frame be FS ?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    I put the Asylum and Leviathan at the very top of the full squish wish list !
    I can't imagine very many situations when you would opt for riding a hardtail over an Asylum unless you have something ultra-light.
    Is your hardtail steel or aluminum ?
    It's Ti. About 4 lbs. lighter than the Asylum. I'm just picky. It would be nice to have an ultra-light weight 29er FS. For every day trail riding the Asylum is hard to beat. I'm definately faster on the Asylum in most situations. It's just hard to ignore 4 extra lbs. on the hills though.

  10. #10
    No Justice = No Peace
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    Custom Steel

    My DeSalvo 29er was under 2500 and way under 28 pounds. If youre not big, check into a used Ti frame, but can't miss with some of these great custom steel builders. Endless bikes is in your neighborhood, right?
    "Welcome to my underground lair...."

  11. #11

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    Hey 1-track, you will be amazed at how well the 29" wheels roll and take a lot of the roughness associated w/ 26" hardtails away. Plus the hardtails are gonna get you in the low 20lbs region w/ a little tweaking, w/ a suss fork and suss seatpost it will be all you need. The Juice and KM are great because you can run the SS or geared so you can set up a 1x9 drivetrain then just remove the rear derailleur put a cog and spacers on and chain set for SS and you are off. That is what I am doing w/ my Paragon. Got a Surly tensioner, Endless cog and a shorter chain. I can have my Paragon in SS mode in 10 mins, but w/ the Juice and Karate Monkey you wouldn't have to have the tensioner etc.

  12. #12
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    Although it's well possible, aming a steel hardtail moticably more comfortable that the Inbred is going to take some real tricks, or risks. A good suspension seatpost runs a good $100 and adds much less weight than FS. Alu vs Alu, FS ads around $1200-1400 and over 2lb. Steel hardtail vs alu FS, well the weight gain is negligeble, but of course the cost increase is still there.
    IMO a suspension seatpost on my KM (Canecreek Thudbuster) made it stop being a hardtail. It's really an FS bike. Funny how much you can ride seated.
    If you follow all the weightweenie rules, you can build a Spicer/Walt/On-One to the weight you desire, with that suspension seatpost, and have cash left to put in the FS frame trust fund. Just spend your money wisely on parts. No XTR cranks for a couple grams, no full Deore kit to save cost.

  13. #13
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    no it wont...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    The Juice and Inbred are the only two hardtails left on my list. I think with a sus seatpost, they would do the job for the next five years or so. After that, I'm probably FS material.
    My biggest problem laying out 2-3k is knowing I have to drive at least an hour to get to a decent trail.

    Will the Wojcik frame be FS ?
    like you, i dont plan on riding fs until i feel like my body cant take riding a hardtail. i have zero interest in fs (unless your talking the yeti asr-sl !) just not my thing. the inbred weighs in at like 6.5 lbs for the 20in, the juice is 5.25 lbs for the 20in. both are well made so the biggest physical difference is weight. it that dosnt matter to you, then look at the differences in geometry. the soma is shorter, the on one more stretched out. hope this helps.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
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  14. #14
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    It's Ti. About 4 lbs. lighter than the Asylum. I'm just picky. It would be nice to have an ultra-light weight 29er FS.

    It's just hard to ignore 4 extra lbs. on the hills though.
    I'll take the Pepsi challenge on that anyday...

    If you build a Ti HT that's 4 pounds lighter than an equivalent sized Asylum, I'll be shocked. You'd have to build it so feather light that it would be a flex-o-matic supreme.

    I'd love to see/hear/etc you get one built. Smart money says any respectable HT 29er will be in the 4 pound range - at least. How much did that carbon lugged Dean weigh a few weeks ago (that the owner subsequently said was too flexy to ride?) It was what, 3.8 pounds?

    Just how much do you think an Asylum weighs? I've had more Ti 29ers than I can remember, several 26 RX's, 1 Asylum, and 1 Ti RX 9er. I didn't weigh a single one of them, but I'll eat a big ole crow-sandwhich if you can demonstrate a fully functional Ti HT that is 4lbs lighter than a Asylum frame. You'd have to get the lighter Alum or Scandium HT, both of which are probably lighter than a similarly stiff Ti HT frame.

  15. #15
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    wait just a second

    " Alu vs Alu, FS ads around $1200-1400 and over 2lb"

    Don't forget the 293 as a representative FS. Complete bike in '05 = $1600, frame weight (L) w/rear shock 5.5#. I don't know of many complete Al hardtails for $200-400 with frames less than 3.5#

    It'd actually be quite easy to crack 28# without breaking $2500 with the Sugar. (pardon the puns...)

    Hopefully the race day will come correct on all counts...

  16. #16
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    Correct heavyg, complete bikes sometimes can break with tradition, FS frames represent a smaller cost, but can often only be bought used like that. Like the Sugar, it'd be awesome if we could get it for $1000 new, but for that money you "only" get a more hefty Astrix.
    A lightly used sugar frame might be a good way to start a budgetlight bike.

  17. #17
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    Older guy

    I'm 49 and know the feeling. I really liked a Surly KM but went to a Dos Niner. Very light and enought travel to make a difference. Standover was the big problem with 2005 frames but have been lowered for the new year. Fisher is also coming out with another FS bike coming in the spring. I'll be looking hard at that one.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutarious
    My DeSalvo 29er was under 2500 and way under 28 pounds. If youre not big, check into a used Ti frame, but can't miss with some of these great custom steel builders. Endless bikes is in your neighborhood, right?
    Endless frames are actually made by Brew to the specifications of the Endless guys. Haven't heard much from that company in many many months now. Are they still doing those Lifetime 24/26 model hardtails? People are using their rear cogs right?

  19. #19
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    I'll take the Pepsi challenge on that anyday...

    If you build a Ti HT that's 4 pounds lighter than an equivalent sized Asylum, I'll be shocked. You'd have to build it so feather light that it would be a flex-o-matic supreme.

    I'd love to see/hear/etc you get one built. Smart money says any respectable HT 29er will be in the 4 pound range - at least. How much did that carbon lugged Dean weigh a few weeks ago (that the owner subsequently said was too flexy to ride?) It was what, 3.8 pounds?

    Just how much do you think an Asylum weighs? I've had more Ti 29ers than I can remember, several 26 RX's, 1 Asylum, and 1 Ti RX 9er. I didn't weigh a single one of them, but I'll eat a big ole crow-sandwhich if you can demonstrate a fully functional Ti HT that is 4lbs lighter than a Asylum frame. You'd have to get the lighter Alum or Scandium HT, both of which are probably lighter than a similarly stiff Ti HT frame.
    You're right to a degree. The HT frame was 3.8 lbs. and the Asylum was 6.3 lbs. The extra 1.5 lbs. was in the wheels/tires and brakes. Most everything else was the same. For me, I couldn't justify shelling out an extra $400.00 for brakes and $650.00 for wheels to loose a pound maybe. Especially when I had a King wheelset and decent Hayes brakes. I had gone through several tires by the time I bought my hardtail and and finally went with the Ignitors and some inner tubes that were lighter than the ones on the Asylum. Probably gained/lost almost another pound right there. So if I had the same exact build kit from my HT on my Asylum, I'm guessing it would have weighed more in the 26.5 -27 lb. range. So in all the Asylum is going to weigh roughly 2.5 lbs. more than the HT if the same exact same parts are used. Do you feel better now?

  20. #20
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    Do you feel better now?
    strangely i'm so removed from it these days that my satisfaction meter didn't budge either way...

    Keepin' the faith...to myself...

  21. #21
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    well said...

    "Just spend your money wisely on parts. No XTR cranks for a couple grams, no full Deore kit to save cost".
    this is how i build all my bikes which weigh from 24.5-26 lbs. im 250 lbs so for me my bikes are far from heavy, but dependable.
    EAST COAST
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    strangely i'm so removed from it these days that my satisfaction meter didn't budge either way...

    Keepin' the faith...to myself...
    Removed from it????

    You???!!!!!

    Are you still sporting that moto????
    Last edited by kbell; 02-14-2006 at 06:11 PM.

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