Some thoughts after building first 29er- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Some thoughts after building first 29er

    Just to share my experience.

    (1) WB bw1.0 is NOT a good combination with king ISO disks - my rotor rubs the inside of the fork's leg. I had problems before with king ISO/fox forks but never like that.

    (2) WB bw1.0 does not clear the bottom tube of my size 18 bike - I had to shave some metal from the lockout lever.

    (3) You need 116mm spindle on your xtr bb if you want to use xtr/spiderless setup. I ended up using both fit rings on the drive side.

    (4) It is hard to find proper chain length - I ended up using 34X16 combo (I use 35X17 on the 26er). Rollenlager did not help much. I still was able to clear all the climbs but I felt like I could not accelerate quickly if I wanted to.

    Overall, the ride is very much different from its 26er brother. It is stable and surefooted, but bike could not be sprinted in quick bursts. 100mm fork upfron did not slow the steering, bike was as nimble on turns as its 26er brother custom built for 100mm fork. Overall, I am not ready to hang my 26er on the wall. Cheers.
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  2. #2
    Your bike sucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by poff
    (1) WB bw1.0 is NOT a good combination with king ISO disks - my rotor rubs the inside of the fork's leg. I had problems before with king ISO/fox forks but never like that.
    Egads that rotor is close to the leg. Wow.

    Rest of the bike looks sweet tho. Pretty dam(n) bling.

    I hear you on the 26 vs 29. I really like my new KM. Thus far (and I have lots more riding to do) the 29er wheel thing hasn't been too drastic for me. I rode my cross bike a lot this season and this feels like a monster truck version of that. Incidently, that's exactly what I was seeking. Despite my short time with the KM, I can recognize it's versatility; if I was forced to have just one bike - it'd probably be this one. I think it's going to be perfect for the long distance stuff I have planned. That said, I doubt I'm selling my 26'' stuff just yet.

    It is super exciting to be on something new and different again.

  3. #3

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    Hey Poff, any leads on getting some NOS XTR crank arms? I am dying trying to find a set. IMO (and, yours too I spose) they are the best looking crank for ti frames...

    And, whered you pick up your spiderless?

    TIA>

  4. #4
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    WB Forks. Is this Opportunity for design improvement?

    While they are obviously good forks there are some obvious problems with the WB design. First the dropouts need to be moved towards the inside of the leg effectively making the overall width of the fork wider. Second, WB needs to adopt a crown design similar to that of other companies so the fork can clear under a traditional diamond frame in the event of a crash. Who wants a dented downtube? Finally, the reason that you did not experience major handling differences on the 100mm fork is most likely the axle to crown race height on these forks. Compared to that of Marzocchi and Rock Shox it is close to 20mm less. Effectively making a 100mm WB handle like a Marzocchi would on the same bicycle. When I looked into purchasing a WB fork I noticed the axle to crown discrepancy and was planning on getting a 100mm, so you walked into a good situation by purchasing that 100mm fork.

    This is in no means meant to be an attack on WB, they do a fantastic job. Hopefully this will be passed on to them and they will recognize these as opportunities. I would be extremely suprised if King's Hubs were off on the spacing of the rotor.

    Kudos on the new Moots though. Very hot! I loved my 26" Rigormootis and agree with you on the quick sprinting capabilities, but it felt to small everytime I would get on it, so now someone else can ride it.

  5. #5
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    In the beginning, my Fisher was not a real big shock to me. I was running Nanoraptor tires only, and took time trusting them. Once I got Bonty AcX Jones', I was finally able to corner harder than before, and by a huge difference, even over the very best softcompound 26" tires.
    29" bikes thamselves are not faster. Way easier to ride, though. It takes a bit of pushing to brake through old 26" habits and explore those last 3 inches.

    I wonder where the Marz 80-WB100 fork length comparison comes from. My Marathon is 487mm, a .8 is 485mm and a 1.0 505mm. Please correct me, I'm obviously wrong.

    I agree that tolerances on WB forks, especially regarding rotors, need to be improved. While they're at it, I'd be interested to see what 43mm would do to a bike's handling. 48mm the same. I'd love to have that as an option.
    Still, I have suspicion towards King. They always do theings their way.

    Fork-downtube clearance is for a large part responsibility of the frame builder. 29"er have much steeper downtubes. Gusset or bend the downtube at the headtube. I wonder if a Reba or Marz or Winwood would have so much clearance on the same bike.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  6. #6
    try driving your car less
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    Quote Originally Posted by poff
    Just to share my experience.


    Overall, the ride is very much different from its 26er brother. It is stable and surefooted, but bike could not be sprinted in quick bursts. 100mm fork upfron did not slow the steering, bike was as nimble on turns as its 26er brother custom built for 100mm fork. Overall, I am not ready to hang my 26er on the wall. Cheers.
    wow! very nice.... very nice.
    you should consider an ENO eccentric disc (when they come out) with an ENO freewheel. That should take care of the gearing problem. Or perhaps build an ENO with V brakes in the back in the meantime. I would be curious as to the comparison once you get the same gearing, since acceleration seems to be an issue, but tough to compare with different gearing.
    I would love to try those bikes back to back on local trails to really get a feel for things.
    I have a 26er YBB with an ENO. Never ridden a 29er and sort of curious about all the hoopla.
    Only boring people get bored.

  7. #7
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    Hi, Great looking bike!!! I'm also very curious about the 29ers as well. I'm right on th edge of trying one. I'll probably end up doing it anyway. The parking lot test I did on a Fisher left me a little underwelmed. The bike seemed a little slow and sluggish and as you said, harder to accellerate. People who have the sware by them and I am more curious to see if a 29er would help me with certain "fit" issues. I think I would like the bigger proportionally bike. Back in 1979 Honda experimented with a 23" front tire on there CR-125 moto cross bikes. The standard was 21". They had the same angle of attack concept going on. The idea flopped, but many of those who had them swore by them. I'm just curious of more detail from you on the ride characteristics 26 vs. 29 since you are a new 29er rider. Thanks.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by poff
    (4) It is hard to find proper chain length - I ended up using 34X16 combo (I use 35X17 on the 26er). Rollenlager did not help much. I still was able to clear all the climbs but I felt like I could not accelerate quickly if I wanted to.
    Curious to hear your comments on the Rollenlager and it's effectiveness? I installed one this last week and was a little unimpressed with the fastner quality. They list "- Stainless steel hardware used throughout" but it's not! Some aluminum, a little stainless, and one BIG tank of a steel bolt on the hanger pivot instead of the stud and flanged nut pictured on the website. In the end, it seems once it is set properly it should work well.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkekus
    Hey Poff, any leads on getting some NOS XTR crank arms? I am dying trying to find a set. IMO (and, yours too I spose) they are the best looking crank for ti frames...

    And, whered you pick up your spiderless?

    TIA>
    Check with your LBS--if they can order from Quality, they can get the cranks (just got my set that way last week). As for the spiderless--my setup came from Bruce Bell, drop him a line at [email protected]. He does very nice work, basically a variation on the Spot design I believe. And yes, you'll need to add a spacer on the drive side. Whichever spiderless setup you go with on a bike with S shaped chainstays make sure you get a "dished" ring or you'll have even more issues. I know people have made Boone Ti stuff work on the Mooto, but given thats a flat ring the offset is going to be even bigger.

    As for the rotor/fork issue, indeed, see the other thread going on this right now. My setup with Avid mechanicals leaves much to be desired--about 1, maybe 2mm of clearance tops it seems. Not sure whether I will stick with this setup or try something new as I'm not crazy about it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKM
    While they are obviously good forks there are some obvious problems with the WB design. First the dropouts need to be moved towards the inside of the leg effectively making the overall width of the fork wider. Second, WB needs to adopt a crown design similar to that of other companies so the fork can clear under a traditional diamond frame in the event of a crash. Who wants a dented downtube? Finally, the reason that you did not experience major handling differences on the 100mm fork is most likely the axle to crown race height on these forks. Compared to that of Marzocchi and Rock Shox it is close to 20mm less. Effectively making a 100mm WB handle like a Marzocchi would on the same bicycle. When I looked into purchasing a WB fork I noticed the axle to crown discrepancy and was planning on getting a 100mm, so you walked into a good situation by purchasing that 100mm fork.

    This is in no means meant to be an attack on WB, they do a fantastic job. Hopefully this will be passed on to them and they will recognize these as opportunities. I would be extremely suprised if King's Hubs were off on the spacing of the rotor.

    Kudos on the new Moots though. Very hot! I loved my 26" Rigormootis and agree with you on the quick sprinting capabilities, but it felt to small everytime I would get on it, so now someone else can ride it.
    What's interesting is that all of your dimension issues are interrelated. The low axle/crown race height is related to the crown design that interferes with the the down tube. And.. if the legs were farther apart the problem would be exacerbated.

    It seems that for WB to solve this King clearance problem it would require a redesign of the lower caps (dropouts) on the fork legs as well as the crown and you would end up with a longer axle/crown race height.

    Mike

  11. #11
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    More thoughts...

    (1) Whasher fixed rubbing rotor. Good advice. Also, do not go for 1mm washer, Iam using 2 mm one and it made things great - lot of clearance.

    (2) I put pc-99 chain on it and already snapped it twice. Granted, my 34X16 gearing may look insane, but I never snapped that many chaines on two rides. I switched to pc-1, lets see how it will hold up.

    (3) I really, really like wb fork. If they will make terra logic version I will only buy from them both for 29er and 26er.

    (4) I still cannot figure out how to accelerate in bursts on it. I now believe that 29er is perfect for epic rides - very comfy stable and surefooted. Handles as fast as any 26er. However, if you want/need to change pace fast, 26er is the way to go.

    (5) Its a myth that you need different SS gearing for 29er, 34X16 is taller than 35X17 I use on my 26er and I manage just fine, which makes me think that if I put 35X17 on the 29er I would see alomost no difference.

    (6) Finally for SSders. IT IS WAY EASIER TO STAND AND PEDAL ON 29ER! In fact, I keep standing most of the time on it - my legs feel so fresh, I cannot believe it. I tend to stand only on climbs when I ride my 26er on the same trail and my front muscles do feel it. Nothing like that on 29er.

    For those who asked about xtr/spot combo, I got several xtr arms a while ago from ebay - I have 2 175mm sets, 177.5 set and 180mm set. spot rings I got on sale from spot couple of years ago ($50) just got lucky I guess. Cheers.

  12. #12
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    For those who asked about xtr/spot combo, I got several xtr arms a while ago from ebay - I have 2 175mm sets, 177.5 set and 180mm set. spot rings I got on sale from spot couple of years ago ($50) just got lucky I guess. Cheers.
    What bottom bracket do you run with those xtr arms? Any recomendations?
    thanks
    P

  13. #13
    used to be uno-speedo....
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    Very very nice Dmitry.

    I'm NOT jealous in the slightest sense

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