So are there any high volume fast rolling tires..- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    So are there any high volume fast rolling tires..

    similar in weight to a Schwalbe RR 2.25 but without their tendency to slice the casing on rocks?

    I just sliced thru my second one, after yet again only maybe 10 rides... did it within a mile of where I did the first one last fall, this time the slash started in the tread zone and went up the sidewall (which means even if I'd gone with the snakeskin version it still would have failed) and this makes it a bit more problematic to sew the slice shut.

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    i need to get out of toronto and come play chez vous!
    i'd suggest the weirwolf lt, schwalbes are so hit and miss (for some models) it's weird...
    or cope with the heavy-casing versions like the dissent and kodiak and whathaveyou.

    could always try the glued-tube method of doubling up the sidewalls... 'at least you keep the tread pattern you love (but gain the weight you may hate)
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  3. #3
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    ^^ Agreed.

    The Weirwolf has a thicker casing than the Schwalbe Racing Ralph. I can't give an exact number, but I can take a micrometer to the WWs tomorrow if you so wish.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    similar in weight to a Schwalbe RR 2.25 but without their tendency to slice the casing on rocks?

    I just sliced thru my second one, after yet again only maybe 10 rides... did it within a mile of where I did the first one last fall, this time the slash started in the tread zone and went up the sidewall (which means even if I'd gone with the snakeskin version it still would have failed) and this makes it a bit more problematic to sew the slice shut.
    the thin sidewalls are one reason they do weigh so little. Anything durable will be at least some weight penalty.

    Are you currently using the SnakeSkin version of that tire?

  5. #5
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    Conti Race King?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Live
    Conti Race King?
    It has a large volume casing but is not very wide especially compared to a Weirwolf.

    The 29-3 "front" tire seems like it would be a faster roller.
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    Specialized Captain 2.2 in a control casing?

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    Geax Saguaro 2.2. I was running weirwolf 2.55 LTs on my hard tail single speed (I weight 150lbs) and they felt quite fast and comfortable but 1) mine weighed in at 770 gms 2) the two times I ran them at 20lbs I dented the rear 355 rim 3) on trails running along hill sides they tended to want to slide towards the downhill side. The Saguaro is a very fast tire...faster then the LT and it grips better on off camber or sloping trails. My Saguaros weighed in at 660gms. Have run them at 20lbs several times on rocky trails to include one race and have not dinged the rim. The casing seems more stiff than the LT so it is more bouncy at equal pressures but the stiff sidewall or the tall nature of the tire allows it to be run at 20lbs without bottoming. I have run both tires over very sharp limestone trails and shelves without tears. In fact I have never had a flat on either in 6 months of use.

  9. #9
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    Ok let me add it can't be any bigger than a 2.3, it has to fit my Dos Niner (the RR 2.4 rubbed the paint off the inside of the chainstays).

    No I'm not using the snakeskins, as I said, the slice started in the tread, the SS protection is only on the sidewall. Its not going to do anything for a slashed tread.

  10. #10
    agu
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    +1 on the Geax Saguaros!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Ok let me add it can't be any bigger than a 2.3, it has to fit my Dos Niner (the RR 2.4 rubbed the paint off the inside of the chainstays).
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  12. #12
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    Good ol' Karma 2.2s

    They roll pretty fast, and weigh ~800g, so it's safe to say that the sidewalls are fairly thick. Can find 'em pretty cheap at times too -- $25 or so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Wilderness Trail Bikes Nanoraptor
    After reading the recommendations on the Nano in various other threads, particularly wrt rocks I tried them on my ht and the rear only lasted part-way thru the second ride :-(
    I guess the shale-based rocks here are sharper than most.

    +1 for the Saguaros as a good balance between weight, grip and durability

  14. #14
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    Conti Race King. Very fast. Easiest tire I have ever sealed up with Stan's. Beads snapped right into place and there were minimal leakers that sealed quickly. Casing runs very true (no worm effect). Plenty of volume and a fast tread. BTW - early version of the Race Kings were narrow - about 1.9 even though they read 2.2. Conti has updated and the 2.2 now measures about 2.2. Know before you go.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure26
    Conti Race King. Very fast. Easiest tire I have ever sealed up with Stan's. Beads snapped right into place and there were minimal leakers that sealed quickly. Casing runs very true (no worm effect). Plenty of volume and a fast tread. BTW - early version of the Race Kings were narrow - about 1.9 even though they read 2.2. Conti has updated and the 2.2 now measures about 2.2. Know before you go.
    Ditto.
    Fast rolling and surprisingly good in just about everything.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Ok let me add it can't be any bigger than a 2.3, it has to fit my Dos Niner (the RR 2.4 rubbed the paint off the inside of the chainstays).

    No I'm not using the snakeskins, as I said, the slice started in the tread, the SS protection is only on the sidewall. Its not going to do anything for a slashed tread.
    DeeEight, I don't have a long term report for you with regard to Race King 2.2's, but I am pleasantly surprised with these tires on my Dos Niner over the past few weeks - including on the rocks. Their volume mainly comes in the height of the tire (52.9mm using Shiggy's measurement) as opposed to their width. Volume Index on Shiggy's scale is 29.1. That compares to a Racing Ralph 2.25 (52.8mm height/29.8 volume index). Like the Ralph, they are a really tall tire which gives some nice cushion to the Dos. The Ralph 2.25 is about 1mm wider in casing width. The Race King's weigh a bit more than the Snakeskins (25-50g). Not sure that is enough additional rubber to prevent your slashing worries.

    I rum them tubeless on the Blunts and the bead was so tight, they aired up on the 1st attempt with no problems. Good traction front and rear (sort of reminds me of a Nano being run tubeless in terms of traction) and they are fast. As I said, a big heavier than the SS Ralphs, but fast. I'm not sure about the slash worthiness of them, but I'm sure searching some threads you will find more reports on that. At least they are less expensive than the Ralphs. I've seen them from time to time priced at US $35.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4641326511/" title="Summerset Shootout by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4641326511_f7fe557de6_o.jpg" width="641" height="960" alt="Summerset Shootout" /></a>

    Due to the rub on the chainstays in the rear of the Dos, I would be careful going to anything that gets wider than a 56-57mm casing/tread width in the rear. You would be good with a Race King 2.2, Karma 2.2, Geax Saguaro, Ardent 2.25, etc... . You start getting in the 58mm+ width and with the advent of any mud - you will get rub in the rear.

  17. #17
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    I am going to chime in here with the barro Race TNT. The sidewalls rock. They weigh around 650 grams a tire. They are not as big as the 2.2 stuff everyone else is talking about but because of the stiff sidewalls but they ride bigger than they are. I easily run them at down to 22psi (I weigh 190) with no issues on rocks and roots at all. They roll stupid fast as well and are the best cornering tire I have ever ridden.

    Just be prepared for poor wet weather traction, I have tried them rolling the opposite direction (they are bi-directional) and the traction on the wet stuff improved quite alot.

    They are also a challenge to get on certain rims.

  18. #18
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    I have been running the Maxxis Aspen. I know they are a little smaller than a RR but I really like them. Super easy to setup tubeless, very light weight, and they roll incredibly well. I have them on a set of Arches.

  19. #19
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    The only other tire I know of that has both similar weight, volume, and rolling speed to the RR would be the Stan's Raven 2.2. Not sure about durability on those though.

  20. #20
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    similar in weight to a Schwalbe RR 2.25 but without their tendency to slice the casing on rocks?

    I just sliced thru my second one, after yet again only maybe 10 rides... did it within a mile of where I did the first one last fall, this time the slash started in the tread zone and went up the sidewall (which means even if I'd gone with the snakeskin version it still would have failed) and this makes it a bit more problematic to sew the slice shut.

    the problem isn't the casing, the problem is you needing to pick a better line bud

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  21. #21
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    Problem with Race King 29ers... NOT Black Chili. I don't care what anyone says. That is a problem.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    similar in weight to a Schwalbe RR 2.25 but without their tendency to slice the casing on rocks?

    I just sliced thru my second one, after yet again only maybe 10 rides... did it within a mile of where I did the first one last fall, this time the slash started in the tread zone and went up the sidewall (which means even if I'd gone with the snakeskin version it still would have failed) and this makes it a bit more problematic to sew the slice shut.
    I ran 26er Ralphs for the last half of last season... never any issues... but now riding a 29er with Ralph 2.25 (front and rear) which I love... good volume, awesome traction - both climbing and cornering, super fast rolling and low rolling resistance... the only thing they don't do well is mud...

    but your experience isn't inspiring much confidence, although based on my 26er experience, it might not be an issue here on my trails... we have the odd rock gardens, but nothing super severe where the rocks are extremely sharp... not that i've seen anyways... I've heard of guy here slicing Rons left and right, but not Ralphs...

    there's talk of a new Conti tire... the X-King... that i'm extremely interested in.... although realistically, i'll want to wear out my Ralphs before spending any more on tires... if one fails, a change will be a no brainer, but I hope it doesn't come to that...

    Before you commit to the RK (which, keep in mind, not Black Chili in the 29er size, there's a big difference, especially on rocks. Black Chili just works much better), maybe find out when the X-King in 29er will be available....

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  23. #23
    LCW
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    Hope about Nobby Nic? They are a bit heavier, but supposed to roll quite well... they only seem to come in Protection version in 29er size, but at least 2.25 width...

    https://www.schwalbetires.com/nobby_nic_hs411


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure26
    Conti Race King. Very fast. Easiest tire I have ever sealed up with Stan's. Beads snapped right into place and there were minimal leakers that sealed quickly. Casing runs very true (no worm effect). Plenty of volume and a fast tread. BTW - early version of the Race Kings were narrow - about 1.9 even though they read 2.2. Conti has updated and the 2.2 now measures about 2.2. Know before you go.
    Opposite experience. Conti Race kings took me 20 minutes to seat the bead, had to turn up the pressure in the compressor to get it seated, then took another week or so for the bead to seal up. I was using a DT rim.

    Conti Race Kings are quite voluminous for a 2.2 and traction is pretty good for such small knobs.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure26
    Conti Race King. Very fast. Easiest tire I have ever sealed up with Stan's. Beads snapped right into place and there were minimal leakers that sealed quickly. Casing runs very true (no worm effect). Plenty of volume and a fast tread. BTW - early version of the Race Kings were narrow - about 1.9 even though they read 2.2. Conti has updated and the 2.2 now measures about 2.2. Know before you go.
    My experience is the same, this is an amazing tire with far more traction even in loose over hard pack than one would think, just looking at the tread.

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  26. #26
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    I'm running two tires talked about in this thread right now.

    Race King:

    My initial saying on this tire was slighted by the fact that the last time I used it I was on a 19mm internal width rim and using tubes. The tire is definately nicer tubeless on a wider rim. I think it offers a lot more then the Nano especially when things are loomy and in corners. The tire was a bit tough to seal up at first but after doing what is instructed in Stans video it aired up and finally sealed after about 2hrs of flipping and shaking. I do think the tire will "grow" a bit more and am really hoping so as it looks like a pizza cutter out back compared to the WWLT. I currently run this tire between 30 and 33psi.

    WWLT

    Once again the last time I put this tire on I was on the 19mm rim and a tube and now on a Flow this tire is much nicer. This tire is a boss in rock gardens, it just forms around the rocks and gives tremendous grip. All my rocks in MN are dry so nothing slippery like you East coast guys get but nontheless a nice tire for rocks. Was a little caucious if I caught some grease in a corner but finally I just took a corner like any other and the tire seems to hold up fine. Overally one of my favorite tires. I run this tire at about 20 to 22psi.

    FInal thoughts:
    Overally I really like this combo in the dry season and maybe early to mid fall. I think I will try a WWLT in the rear next year though for some shock absorption in the rear. I think a rigid rider could get away with dual WWLT dry and Ardent 2.4 rest of the year.

    On a side note I think anyone could get away with just dropping a MK 2.4 up front for the rest of the year with a RK out back.
    Last edited by Mr Pink57; 06-02-2010 at 12:18 AM.
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  27. #27
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    Flow Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by bonbonan
    Weight?
    I find it interesting that you use Flow rims on a fast XC bike. I have 2 wheelsets Flow and Arch and always considered my Flows for trail all mountain only. You have me thinking of the Flows with light tires.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    the problem isn't the casing, the problem is you needing to pick a better line bud

    Was going to say the same thing

    I have sliced a 26" nobby nic going uphill right in the center of the tread and cut a 1.5 inch hole in it deflating with a whoosh of 100ml of stans. I also have 3x 29er racing ralphs here in 2.25 with sidewall cuts .... im on my 3rd ride with my new found snakeskins , i absolutely love the tyres, the weight and the volume of them but the back 2.25 has been a PITA , the front 2.4 RR is still the same tyre, it looks like it will wear out
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  29. #29
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Yeah the rock that killed my back tire... well the front RR 2.4 went over it also without slicing. It just seems to be the 2.25s that are dying fast deaths. Anyway i'll try seeing if the first one i sewed and patched the sidewall of inflates tubeless or not. The rock that killed that one's sidewall... the same front 2.4 went right beside it also without slicing.

  30. #30
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    I used to be a 26" x 6" plow .... im now a semi careful HT 29er and a FS 429 rider . The front tyre is rarely damaged coz we can see where its going , the back gets rooted though .
    Bottom line is if we want to ride Hi Volume Light 29er tyres .... the sidewalls are going to be shite !!

    The 29er is twice as fast as the 26er was ..... now do the maths
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

    I'm running two tires talked about in this thread right now.

    Race King:

    My initial saying on this tire was slighted by the fact that the last time I used it I was on a 19mm internal width rim and using tubes. The tire is definately nicer tubeless on a wider rim. I think it offers a lot more then the Nano especially when things are loomy and in corners. The tire was a bit tough to seal up at first but after doing what is instructed in Stans video it aired up and finally sealed after about 2hrs of flipping and shaking. I do think the tire will "grow" a bit more and am really hoping so as it looks like a pizza cutter out back compared to the WWLT. I currently run this tire between 30 and 33psi.

    WWLT

    Once again the last time I put this tire on I was on the 19mm rim and a tube and now on a Flow this tire is much nicer. This tire is a boss in rock gardens, it just forms around the rocks and gives tremendous grip. All my rocks in MN are dry so nothing slippery like you East coast guys get but nontheless a nice tire for rocks. Was a little caucious if I caught some grease in a corner but finally I just took a corner like any other and the tire seems to hold up fine. Overally one of my favorite tires. I run this tire at about 20 to 22psi.

    FInal thoughts:
    Overally I really like this combo in the dry season and maybe early to mid fall. I think I will try a WWLT in the rear next year though for some shock absorption in the rear. I think a rigid rider could get away with dual WWLT dry and Ardent 2.4 rest of the year.

    On a side note I think anyone could get away with just dropping a MK 2.4 up front for the rest of the year with a RK out back.

    Nice ass rig man!!!

    Is that the old style WWLT up front? I thought it got redesigned a bit for 2010 (or 2011?)...

    Weight on the WWLT?

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Nice ass rig man!!!

    Is that the old style WWLT up front? I thought it got redesigned a bit for 2010 (or 2011?)...

    Weight on the WWLT?
    I have no idea on the weight.

    The redesign was only for the 26er model so all is the same on the 29er. I do hope they do a TCS option for the 29er it would really make an all condition tire.
    Review of new Weirwolf non 29er.
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