School me on single pivots... please.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    School me on single pivots... please.

    I assume all single pivots are not created equal? Is the Occam 29 single pivot worth $600 more than the Superlight 29 single pivot? I've tested the Superlight. Liked it. Occam 29 doesn't come out till Sept. I'll test the occam when it come out. I wondering if I'm just being allured by the boutique-ish Orbea and should just grab a SL29. Both come with the CTD rear shock.
    Looking to build up a trail/endurance rig.

    Orbea Occam S10 29er - First Ride Review - BikeRadar

    Santa Cruz Superlight 29 Frame And Shock ? First Ride Review - BikeRadar
    Last edited by Lenny7; 08-29-2012 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #2
    WWJR
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    -Santa Cruz TBLTc
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullendersauce View Post
    Not one of the links that came up in your sarcastic google search explained the difference in these two bikes suspension. Thanks for trying.

  4. #4
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    Fairly sure the Orbea has a pivot at the rear axle, so it isn't a single pivot bike.

    Its more like a Trek with APB or a a DW split pivot
    Lapierre XR29ei, Chris King LB Carbon, XTR 1 X 10
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  5. #5
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    check out the salsa spearfish and horsethief. i'm pretty sure they're single pivot... all i know is that it's supposed to save weight and stiffen the rear suspension by eliminating a pivot. and IIRC it relies on the flex in the stays to allow the rear triangle to move enough. i'll see if i can find the link from salsa i read

  6. #6
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    "The EV6 aluminum frame uses our pivot-minimizing suspension design and a 142 x 12mm Maxle dropout to keep the rear end tight and tracking well. Removing the rear pivot also reduces chassis weight, and reduces complexity and maintenance. The anodized finish drops a bit of weight as well."

    taken from
    Salsa Cycles | Bikes | Spearfish 1 Frame

    Also

    "Pivot Minimizing Suspension
    80mm rear travel version of our link-actuated single pivot design. The Spearfish features our simplified one-piece rear triangle with shaped stays and a shared pivot link design that reduces pivot points and hardware. This creates a lighter and stiffer rear end with fewer wear and maintenance points
    Shaped Seatstays
    Used in favor of a rear pivot on the 1-piece rear triangle. A rear dropout pivot (if present) would only rotate 1-degree during full suspension compression. We eliminate this pivot point and instead transform the 1-degree of rotation into a slight 5.2mm deflection of the seat stays tubes. The seatstays are shaped and sized appropriately to safely handle this small amount of deflection far beyond the lifespan of the frame. The result is a lightweight, one-piece rear triangle with a single pair of bearings at the main pivot
    Extruded, CNC'd Shared-Pivot Link
    Short and compact, the dog-bone shaped link features a shared pivot where the shock and seatstays meet the link. This removes a shock pin from the system and keeps the link small and light"


    (*pats self on back*)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny View Post
    Fairly sure the Orbea has a pivot at the rear axle, so it isn't a single pivot bike.

    Its more like a Trek with APB or a a DW split pivot
    This will be my first FS so I don't know much about them. The orbea was refered to as a single pivot in a review I read, so I was going off of that. Thanks.

    I need more rear travel than the spearfish. I'm coming off two shoulder surgeries... and I'm old so after years of puting it off I have to ditch the HT. I'm looking for atleast 100mm of travel in the rear.

  8. #8
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    that's weird because they refer to my bike (spark) as a single pivot, yet there's a pivot where the other bikes mentioned don't have one.

  9. #9
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    To anyone that says the Spearfish doesnt have enough travel, make sure you actually go ride one before dismissing it. It really surprised me as to the feel of the rear travel.

    Tom

  10. #10
    Team Velveeta™
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    Not one of the links that came up in your sarcastic google search explained the difference in these two bikes suspension. Thanks for trying.
    I have found that this page is pretty good for understanding the basics of most of the alternative suspension designs. The differences between the various "single pivot" designs is probably relevant to what you're thinking about:

    Bicycle suspension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  11. #11
    WWJR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    Not one of the links that came up in your sarcastic google search explained the difference in these two bikes suspension. Thanks for trying.
    slow yur roll brah! I answered both your title and your 1st sentence. Excue me, that I dont know the answer to what makes one of those bikes $600 more/less. I didnt realize that I needed to know every answer to every question in your thread to respond.
    Dang... and I even posted a link. Im going back to just saying "SEARCH". Youre welcome!
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  12. #12
    Keep on Rockin...
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    There are volumes of posts and sites on this topic, but if you are relatively new to the suspension world all that info might be too hard to digest.

    Most suspension designs work well these days and if you are new to FS you'll likely not be able to differentiate out on the trail. Pick you bike based on other factors, like fit, price, durable design, customer support...

    With that said, I will say with confidence that the high single pivot is an outdated design, or at least my least favorite design. It does have its strong points, but overall, the feel of that design is not good on longer travel applications. Shorter travel frames, maybe ok, not sure though.

    Do a bit of homework so that you understand the difference between a high single pivot and a low single pivot/faux bar design. Worlds apart IMO. Low single pivot/faux bar will give you a much better feel.

    Others will likely disagree. I've owned owned 4 high single pivots, 2 low single pivots, 2 horst link bikes, a VPP, and a CVA design, and probably more that I can't recall right now. I like the CVA the best.

  13. #13
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    The idea that adding a pivot at the rear axle, doing nothing to change rear wheel path is 99% marketing hype. Good way to get yourself a patent and throw another acronym on your chainstay though.


    As for the original question... it really has nothing to do with suspension design. Every manufacturer sets their own prices and to assume that there's a tangible difference between them is the stuff of myth that keeps the magazine industry in business.

  14. #14
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    As i understand oreba had a pattent problem with trek and won so if you find info on the trek ( my friends say their rear suspension is junk) it should pertain to the oreba. I also understand that the pivot near the rear axle is to stop brake jack. The sl 29 i have ridden a bit and in fact just ordered a 2013 over the oreba because i have no dealers anywhere near me ( all over 200 miles away) to test ride 1 and i have a sc dealer in town. Price helped too!
    “An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo

  15. #15
    eci
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    The Wikipedia link Tom posted is spot on, def read it to better understand the if fervent versions of a single pivot.

    There is so much more to take in account tho
    A. Geometry
    B. suspension dynamics
    C. Riding style

    Good luck on your purchase

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