Salsa Gordo Tubeless

Printable View

  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Salsa Gordo Tubeless
    Is anyone sucessfully running their Gordo's tubeless?


    What kind of bike are you using: rigid-singlespeed, full-suspension gearie?


    What is your conversion method: ghetto, Stan's?


    Which tires are you using, have you tried?


    What pressure are you running?


    What sort of riding conditions are they setup for, how is it?


    Much thanks!
  • 08-28-2009
    sean salach
    i remember a thread where it was described by mikesee. a search might reel the info in.
  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sean salach
    i remember a thread where it was described by mikesee. a search might reel the info in.

    Yes, I've read Mike Curiak's unsuccessful tubeless attempt, but that was quite a time ago. I suspect American ingenuity and tenacity may have overcome his initial difficulties since then. It also seems that Mark Stevenson is indifferent, choosing to only use tubes in his "extensive" review of the Salsa Gordos, but really, that's just lazy or politics or both, him being a so-called Review Guru and all.

    Anyways, I figured I'll draw on the MTBR knowledge pool and not just the Gods of MTBR, for shame, of gleaning helpful tips and experiences with running Gordo's tubeless.
  • 08-28-2009
    GreenLightGo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    Yes, I've read Mike Curiak's unsuccessful tubeless attempt, but that was quite a time ago. I suspect American ingenuity and tenacity may have overcome his initial difficulties since then. It also seems that Mark Stevenson is indifferent, choosing to only use tubes in his "extensive" review of the Salsa Gordos, but really, that's just lazy or politics or both, him being a so-called Review Guru and all.

    Anyways, I figured I'll draw on the MTBR knowledge pool and not just the Gods of MTBR, for shame, of gleaning helpful tips and experiences with running Gordo's tubeless.

    I don't think GT is indifferent, he's just a realist. You don't need tubeless with the Gordo. I run Flows w/ Stans'ed tires on my Sultan. Good ole tubies on my Gordos/KM rigid. I did put some Caffe Latex in the tubes for some insurance against road debris - but 20 psi on big fat 2.4 Ardent/Gordo is bliss. No need for tubeless w/ the Gordos.
  • 08-28-2009
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    Is anyone sucessfully running their Gordo's tubeless?


    What kind of bike are you using: rigid-singlespeed, full-suspension gearie?


    What is your conversion method: ghetto, Stan's?


    Which tires are you using, have you tried?


    What pressure are you running?


    What sort of riding conditions are they setup for, how is it?


    Much thanks!

    Yes

    FS Geary

    Stans tape plus goop

    Nevegal and Rampage

    30psi or so

    Big slow rocks, little fast rocks.

    Works fine. Occasional burp/sidewall tear.
  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Thanks!
  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GreenLightGo
    I don't think GT is indifferent, he's just a realist. You don't need tubeless with the Gordo. I run Flows w/ Stans'ed tires on my Sultan. Good ole tubies on my Gordos/KM rigid. I did put some Caffe Latex in the tubes for some insurance against road debris - but 20 psi on big fat 2.4 Ardent/Gordo is bliss. No need for tubeless w/ the Gordos.

    I stand corrected, perhaps he's not indifferent, merely biased!!$!

    And why don't you "need" tubeless with Gordos?

    And why do you "need" tubeless with Flows?

    The reason for the potential "need" of tubeless in the Gordos is weight. Gordos on paper are 700 grams whereas Flows are 525 grams. So yeah, there might be a "need" for those who don't want to push any more extra rotational weight than they "need" to.

    I'm not fighting, just want facts over feelings, that's all.
  • 08-28-2009
    Enel
    I need tubeless because I have pinch flatted many times with Gordos/tubes, even with relatively highish pressures. I also live where thorn punctures are a daily occurrence.

    I will soon try a Stout and Bontrager FR3 tubeless.

    Flows are way better for running stuff tubeless, so if tubeless is your first priority I would not get the Gordos.
    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel
    Flows are way better for running stuff tubeless, so if tubeless is your first priority I would not get the Gordos.

    So you're saying it's been more difficult setting up the Gordos tubeless than the Flows? I tend to lean towards the ghetto method, which Guitar Ted also hints to for the Gordos.

    Tubeless reliability seems to me the biggest factor, with the Flows having an exceptional tubeless track record, and the Gordos well, not having much history yet, but reports like yours are good feedback, and something I'm certain Salsa would also be curious to read, considering other competitors are catching up with similar products.

    I'm considering the Gordo's for a rigid-singlespeed trail bike with lots of potential puncture situations. Flows or Gordos, that's tough.
  • 08-28-2009
    GreenLightGo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    I stand corrected, perhaps he's not indifferent, merely biased!!$!

    And why don't you "need" tubeless with Gordos?

    And why do you "need" tubeless with Flows?

    The reason for the potential "need" of tubeless in the Gordos is weight. Gordos on paper are 700 grams whereas Flows are 525 grams. So yeah, there might be a "need" for those who don't want to push any more extra rotational weight than they "need" to.

    I'm not fighting, just want facts over feelings, that's all.

    It seems counter intuitive to get a big fat (aka Gordo) heavy duty rim only to turn around and run a tire tubeless to reduce weight. If you live in goat head nirvana or near thorn city - meh, tubeless has merit. Caffe Latex in the tube is certainly a viable option. To me, that's kind of like that fat guy at Burger King ordering a double Whopper, with the 'go large' option, then choosing "diet coke" at the soda fountain. :skep:

    If you're looking for tubeless - the Flow works very well. I run those on my Sultan because I wanted the lighter weight and the pluses that come from tubelessness (my own word). I run the Gordo's on my KM to make good use of the big fat rubber and uber-low pressure.

    BTW - you don't need tubeless with Flows. It's an option, not a requirement.;)
  • 08-28-2009
    GreenLightGo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    I'm considering the Gordo's for a rigid-singlespeed trail bike with lots of potential puncture situations. Flows or Gordos, that's tough.

    36 hole Flows - will get you some added durability and tubelessness ability.
  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Much appreciated, thank you!
  • 08-28-2009
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    So you're saying it's been more difficult setting up the Gordos tubeless than the Flows?

    Slightly. They don't air up quite as brainlessly and have the occasional burp as noted.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    I'm considering the Gordo's for a rigid-singlespeed trail bike with lots of potential puncture situations. Flows or Gordos, that's tough.

    I would personally lean toward Flows for this application.

    I run the same front tire on three bikes (two have Flows) and I must say that it seems to hook up much better and track better on the Gordo. Don't know if it is the width, the stiffness, or what, but I feel significantly more in control.

    At the speeds I ride a rigid bike, I would be unlikely to burp a Gordo ever. It has only happened to me at high speeds in rock gardens on the 6" bike where I am not particularly choosing a line, just bashing through. The other place I have burped them is on small 2-3 foot drops when my pressures were below 30 psi.

    I don't think tubeless with low pressures (20 psi range) would work as well with Gordos as with Flows, and of course, that is just the pressure you want when riding rigid.

    Anyway, just thoughts. I weigh 190lbs geared/watered up if that helps.<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  • 08-28-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Great insight, it's all helpful.

    The significant in-control feeling you express is kind of a theme with the Gordos. Of course, who wouldn't like that idea? Yeah, burping, that's trouble, but I'm no heavyweight and not know for being a destroyer of parts no matter how I try!
  • 08-28-2009
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    Great insight, it's all helpful.

    The significant in-control feeling you express is kind of a theme with the Gordos. Of course, who wouldn't like that idea? Yeah, burping, that's trouble, but I'm no heavyweight and not know for being a destroyer of parts no matter how I try!

    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

    You are rather petite, and I'm a big fan:)
  • 08-29-2009
    cruzthepug
    If wide and tubeless is what your after the new Velocity P35 is what you want. 35mm wide, under 600 grams and ready for tubeless.

    Velocity P35
  • 08-29-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cruzthepug
    If wide and tubeless is what your after the new Velocity P35 is what you want. 35mm wide, under 600 grams and ready for tubeless.

    Velocity P35

    Have you converted and ridden this wheel tubeless? How long? What terrain? Thoughts?
  • 08-29-2009
    cruzthepug
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    Have you converted and ridden this wheel tubeless? How long? What terrain? Thoughts?

    I don't think it's actually out yet. I'm guessing after I-bike, but I will give them a try as soon as I can my hands on some.
  • 08-29-2009
    YoungerNow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    Is anyone sucessfully running their Gordo's tubeless?

    What kind of bike are you using: rigid-singlespeed, full-suspension gearie?

    What is your conversion method: ghetto, Stan's?

    Which tires are you using, have you tried?

    What pressure are you running?

    What sort of riding conditions are they setup for, how is it?

    Much thanks!


    Yes.

    Rigid 6-speed Karate Monkey.

    Stan's yellow tape & solution.

    Racing Ralph 2.4s

    20-25psi

    Slowish techy crawling over New England rocks and roots

    The rocks here tend to not have sharp edges, so no tears of the thin Ralph sidewalls. No burps, either. But I'm not generally hard on wheels, especially when I'm riding rigid.

    I've got Flows on my long-travel 26er FS bike. I had an easier time getting the beads to seal on the Gordos, using only a floor pump.
  • 08-29-2009
    Enel
    I should add that I finally got an accurate gauge on the tires, and I am actually running 25 psi.
  • 08-30-2009
    virtueminehonour
    Built up one of my new Gordos last night onto a hope pro2 front.

    I cleaned the rim with IPA and stuck some of this tape (25mm, or 1 inch for you backwards folks across the pond;) )

    on it like this


    Cut a slit in the tape, push in the valve


    I think this is a Stans valve.
    Tyre on, gloop in, pump up. It actually inflated easier than on my Flows and snaps into the bead nicely.
    Still holding air fine this morning so I went out for a 2.5 hour blast on local trails. Had it at below 20psi but this was a bit too soft for my weight(215) and I was getting rim strikes. On any other rim, if it is soft enough to strike it usually feels like it wants to fold off the rim under hard cornering but the Gordo doesnt do this.
    I think just over 20psi is the sweet spot for me with Nevegals on.
    No burps. It just feels really good. Riding today on a mix of muddy, rooty woody singletrack and loose, sharp rocks on man made stuff.

    So far so good.
  • 08-30-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Awesome Thanks!
  • 08-30-2009
    Natalie Portman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by virtueminehonour
    Cut a slit in the tape, push in the valve

    Interesting, but in this last photo, is looks like tape over tape, then the valve, what's going on there?

    None the less, I dig it, and believe I could substitute Gorilla Tape for the Pressure Sensitive tape to do the trick.

    Thanks!
  • 08-30-2009
    virtueminehonour
    At first I cut the tape either side of the valve but then realised that the valve gets a better seal with the tape in place so I put tape over the hole and cut a slit in it.
    The hole is a bit bigger than on stans rims hence the rubber bung bit of the valve only just covers it.
    With the tape in place it is that bit more snug.
  • 08-30-2009
    GreenLightGo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by virtueminehonour
    I think this is a Stans valve.
    Tyre on, gloop in, pump up. It actually inflated easier than on my Flows and snaps into the bead nicely.
    Still holding air fine this morning so I went out for a 2.5 hour blast on local trails. Had it at below 20psi but this was a bit too soft for my weight(215) and I was getting rim strikes. On any other rim, if it is soft enough to strike it usually feels like it wants to fold off the rim under hard cornering but the Gordo doesnt do this.
    I think just over 20psi is the sweet spot for me with Nevegals on.
    No burps. It just feels really good. Riding today on a mix of muddy, rooty woody singletrack and loose, sharp rocks on man made stuff.

    So far so good.

    Looks like a Mavic valve to me. Stans valves have a round base. Still - it works for you.

    Try 26 psi out back, I can get away with 25 psi and weigh 210. No rim strikes at that pressure. Can safely run 20 psi up front with no rim strikes - on the 2.4 Ardent. 21 psi w/ the 2.55 WeirWolf.

    Still liking tubes in my Gordos :D
  • 08-30-2009
    Enel
    Warning.

    Do Not Attempt to mount WTB Stout Tires on this rim tubeless.

    It initially mounts fine, then blows completely off the rim in dramatic fashion as the pressure approaches 25 psi. Extra points if the wheel is in your hand near your face when this occurs:)

    I wish Stan's would make a rim like this.
  • 08-30-2009
    boomn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel
    Warning.

    Do Not Attempt to mount WTB Stout Tires on this rim tubeless.

    It initially mounts fine, then blows completely off the rim in dramatic fashion as the pressure approaches 25 psi. Extra points if the wheel is in your hand near your face when this occurs:)

    I wish Stan's would make a rim like this.

    A video of this would help people remember. Would you mind repeating the experiment with the cameras rolling?
  • 08-31-2009
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boomn
    A video of this would help people remember. Would you mind repeating the experiment with the cameras rolling?

    Might end up on world's dumbest tubeless experiments videos. One instant happily spinning tire, sealing around the edge, the next covered in liquid latex, reflexively throwing the wheel that attacked me across the garage.
  • 08-31-2009
    sennaster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel
    Might end up on world's dumbest tubeless experiments videos. One instant happily spinning tire, sealing around the edge, the next covered in liquid latex, reflexively throwing the wheel that attacked me across the garage.

    bonus points if the garage door is down ... my ears rang for 3 hours when i had a rampage blow off a tk rim while in my hand.
  • 08-31-2009
    Guitar Ted
    Late to the party.............
    Well, I thought I'd chime in since my name was brought up and all...;)

    I didn't review the Gordos as tubeless because #1- they were not designed to be a tubeless rim, and this was explicitly pointed out to me, and #2- I had it on good authority that it didn't work well, and wasn't necessary.

    Since that time I have done some private investigating amongst Gordo users. I have found that Gordos are hit and miss tubeless. I am not interested in that, nor especially in putting out specifics in that regard. I think Enel's experiences and Mike C's speak to the "average" experience with Gordos well without any more additional verbiage from me. ;)

    In light of where we are at with 29"er technology and riders needs/wants, it is my humble opinion that the Gordo and Semi missed the mark in terms of the tubeless factor. I do not see the Velocity P35 being anything near the kind of rim a Gordo is, so I do not believe, (based on years of past experience with Velocity products) that the P35 will be near as stiff or burly as a Gordo. The projected weights for the P35 are a good indication of this, I think. So, this Velocity rim won't be the one to knock the Gordo off as a great choice for all mountain use, but somebody is going to do that, and it will be a tubeless ready, or UST rim. (And the Flow isn't that rim now)

    Oh, and by the way, to my knowledge Velocity hasn't even decided which system they are going to endorse as a tubeless method yet, although my money is on a Stan's strip, ala Giant's new rim that is "tubeless ready".
  • 08-31-2009
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    In light of where we are at with 29"er technology and riders needs/wants, it is my humble opinion that the Gordo and Semi missed the mark in terms of the tubeless factor.....but somebody is going to do that, and it will be a tubeless ready, or UST rim. (And the Flow isn't that rim now)

    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

    I second this heartily.

    I want a rim like the Gordo in terms of stiffness/profile/width, and like the Flow in tubelessnessability.

    It would be like a Liger:) Seriously, that rim would rule the roost.<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  • 08-31-2009
    Natalie Portman
    So what you're saying is, I'm right where I should be...

    ...confused???

    It's funny, just like cars and computers. If I wait for the next best thing I'd never have a car or a computer. I'm finding myself in this kind of indecision with rims. I mean, I can point to every other component and say, "yeah that's the one," no questions.

    Flow (Tubeless) ------- M:confused:E ------- Gordo (Width)

    Thanks G-Ted, I appreciate your thoughtful insight.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Well, I thought I'd chime in since my name was brought up and all...;)

    I didn't review the Gordos as tubeless because #1- they were not designed to be a tubeless rim, and this was explicitly pointed out to me, and #2- I had it on good authority that it didn't work well, and wasn't necessary.

    Since that time I have done some private investigating amongst Gordo users. I have found that Gordos are hit and miss tubeless. I am not interested in that, nor especially in putting out specifics in that regard. I think Enel's experiences and Mike C's speak to the "average" experience with Gordos well without any more additional verbiage from me. ;)

    In light of where we are at with 29"er technology and riders needs/wants, it is my humble opinion that the Gordo and Semi missed the mark in terms of the tubeless factor. I do not see the Velocity P35 being anything near the kind of rim a Gordo is, so I do not believe, (based on years of past experience with Velocity products) that the P35 will be near as stiff or burly as a Gordo. The projected weights for the P35 are a good indication of this, I think. So, this Velocity rim won't be the one to knock the Gordo off as a great choice for all mountain use, but somebody is going to do that, and it will be a tubeless ready, or UST rim. (And the Flow isn't that rim now)

    Oh, and by the way, to my knowledge Velocity hasn't even decided which system they are going to endorse as a tubeless method yet, although my money is on a Stan's strip, ala Giant's new rim that is "tubeless ready".

  • 09-01-2009
    Guitar Ted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel
    <INPUT id=gwProxy type=hidden><!--Session data--><INPUT id=jsProxy onclick=jsCall(); type=hidden>
    ..........I want a rim like the Gordo in terms of stiffness/profile/width, and like the Flow in tubelessnessability.

    It would be like a Liger:) Seriously, that rim would rule the roost.<INPUT id=gwProxy type=hidden><!--Session data--><INPUT id=jsProxy onclick=jsCall(); type=hidden>

    Liger......exactly! :)

    If Stan's would figure out a 35mm rim that worked as well as a Flow, but stiffer, well......

    Everybody else would be playing catch up.
  • 09-01-2009
    mikesee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    Yes, I've read Mike Curiak's unsuccessful tubeless attempt, but that was quite a time ago. I suspect American ingenuity and tenacity may have overcome his initial difficulties since then.

    Just wanted to clarify something here--I had no trouble getting them 'set up': They held air just fine when static or hanging from the rafters.

    I just couldn't get them to hold when riding. Massive burpage and peelage, which are fine at the corner bar or if Natalie's over for supper, not so good with tires on trails.

    MC