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  1. #1
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    Salsa Fargo?

    Anyone got one?

    Anyone built one up flat barred?

    Cheers!

    Paul

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  3. #3
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    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=523997 <===Has Flat bar Fargo pics.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=467422 <===Dedicated thread to Fargos
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    I just built up a flat-bar Fargo. I haven't had time to dial in the fit yet, but I'm already second-guessing myself on the use of flat bars.

    Two problems with flat-bars, that I have:

    1) I am running some zero-rise, Bontrager bars, and they still feel possibly too high relative to the seat. My position on the bike is more upright than I believe I want in the long term.

    2) The short top-tube forces me to run a long stem. I'm running a 90mm stem rather than the 60-80mm range that I prefer. And that is after "sizing up" to an 18" frame over Salsa's 16" recommendation.

    I'm still in the mode of experimenting. I have several bars that I'd like to try and buy. A set of mountain-drops and some bar-end shifters are on that list.

    FWIW, I at one time looked hard at a Karate Monkey as possibly a better choice for building a flat-bar bike, but I have issues with the KM frame design.

    So I have the Fargo. And experimenting is all part of the fun.

  5. #5
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick

    1) I am running some zero-rise, Bontrager bars, and they still feel possibly too high relative to the seat. My position on the bike is more upright than I believe I want in the long term.
    I have not tried flat bars on my Fargo, but you are the third person I have heard of that didn't really get on with the idea. Now I have seen a couple of H-Bar Fargo bikes and those riders love the set up.

    2) The short top-tube forces me to run a long stem. I'm running a 90mm stem rather than the 60-80mm range that I prefer. And that is after "sizing up" to an 18" frame over Salsa's 16" recommendation.
    Coming from the early 90's XC scene, you might understand why I find your asessment of what is "long" and what is "short" in stems a bit funny. I can show you a bin full of 135mm to 150mm stems from back then.

    But what is interesting is that many Fargo riders are sizing up one size from Salsa's recommended size. I did, a good friend of mine did, and several folks from the referenced thread in my other post here seemed to be leaning that way.

    I'm still in the mode of experimenting. I have several bars that I'd like to try and buy. A set of mountain-drops and some bar-end shifters are on that list.

    FWIW, I at one time looked hard at a Karate Monkey as possibly a better choice for building a flat-bar bike, but I have issues with the KM frame design.

    So I have the Fargo. And experimenting is all part of the fun.[/quote]
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Coming from the early 90's XC scene, you might understand why I find your asessment of what is "long" and what is "short" in stems a bit funny. I can show you a bin full of 135mm to 150mm stems from back then.
    LOL! Yeah, most people look at me like I'm daft when I talk about 90mm being long. But I've developed a liking for short stems on my mountain-bikes, and especially in combination with riser bars. Right now I'm running a 60mm on my Hifi 29er, a 70mm on my Stumpy FSR 29er, and I believe I have a 70mm on the Rockhopper that I have set up with rack and fenders for in town. That 90mm stem on the Fargo is by a wide margin the longest stem on any of my bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    But what is interesting is that many Fargo riders are sizing up one size from Salsa's recommended size. I did, a good friend of mine did, and several folks from the referenced thread in my other post here seemed to be leaning that way.
    Salsa's recommendation just didn't make sense to me. They would have me riding a 16-inch bike. I never ride anything that small. The seat-to-bar drop would probably be all wrong, especially with drop bars factored into the equation, because they'd have my hand position even lower than would flats. With the 18-inch frame, I believe I can mount drop bars with a short stem and relatively few spacers.

    OTOH, I've test-ridden a few Cyclocross bikes in the past (the Specialized Tricross), and I've always felt torn between 54cm and 56cm sizes on those. The 18-inch Fargo works out to 57mm. I'm not sure what to make of that discrepancy.

    Edit: I still might try H- and J-bars, but I fear they would leave me even more upright than I am now.

  7. #7
    just ride
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    Oh, the flat-bar Fargo question....

    In short, the Fargo was not designed for flat bars. When you approach frameset design and sizing, you must design for one or the other, as the top tube lengths vary widely depending on use.

    I know this is a hot topic, and many people are trying it. Ive tried it, and GNAT has tried it too. I will say that even after experimentation, we have both come back and say that the Fargo is designed for drop bars, and should be used as such.

    I typically ride a Large in Salsas (I have a Dos, El Mar and Big Mama), and I use a 110mm stem on both, I am 6' tall. My Fargo is also a Large, and my flat-bar experiment used a 135mm stem. Even with this behemoth of a stem, my overall bar-to-saddle measurement was still an inch shorter than my MTBs, and the handling was not very optimal.

    However, when you look at how the bike was designed, I am still definitely a Large, as we recommend. I typically ride a 58cm in a road bike, which corresponds to the same TT length as a Large Fargo. When built with Bell Lap bars and a 110 stem, my Fargo fits me very similar to my road bikes, albeit with a much higher bar height. This was the intent with the Fargo.

    So what does all this mean? While experimentations are fun, the Fargo is decidedly for drop bar use. Obviously you are free to set them up as you wish, but for the bike to work very well, and as intended, it should be set up as it was designed. We know drop bars are not for everyone, especially off-road, so this is just a caveat as to why flat-bar Fargo set ups may not feel optimal.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon
    I know this is a hot topic, and many people are trying it. Ive tried it, and GNAT has tried it too. I will say that even after experimentation, we have both come back and say that the Fargo is designed for drop bars, and should be used as such.
    And at this point, having also made the experiment, I would tend to agree with you. I'm just fighting against the fundamentals when I try to force a flat bar onto that frame.

    Perhaps someday you will make a flat-bar bike with all the same great features that attracted me to the Fargo frame: huge clearance for tires -- and fenders too(!), disk-specific frame and fork, non-suspension-corrected fork, braze-ons for everything I could possibly imagine, drop-dead easy fender mounting, drop-dead easy rack mounting. I was thrilled, for example, to see screws for mounting fenders already in place on the seat- and chainstay-braces.

    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon
    However, when you look at how the bike was designed, I am still definitely a Large, as we recommend. I typically ride a 58cm in a road bike, which corresponds to the same TT length as a Large Fargo. When built with Bell Lap bars and a 110 stem, my Fargo fits me very similar to my road bikes, albeit with a much higher bar height. This was the intent with the Fargo.
    I cannot even begin to imagine running such a long stem, much less that 135mm one you mentioned. When I go to try drops, I've been thinking that I'd probably back my stem down in size from its current 90mm to 70-80mm.

    FWIW, I am 5' 9 1/4" in my biking shoes. I typically ride medium mountain-bike frames. My current Fargo frame is the 18-inch version. Someone at Salsa had recommended that I buy a size small, the 16" frame. I just couldn't buy into that 16-inch recommendation.

    Edit: My mountain-bike background might be working against me when it comes to thinking about stems. Possibly a long makes more sense on a road bike. I have a hard time with the idea though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    Fargo frame: huge clearance for tires -- and fenders too(!), disk-specific frame and fork, non-suspension-corrected fork, braze-ons for everything I could possibly imagine, drop-dead easy fender mounting, drop-dead easy rack mounting. I was thrilled, for example, to see screws for mounting fenders already in place on the seat- and chainstay-braces.
    If only that were still the case. Through the years it has devolved into a full-on MTB machine. The carbon firestarter fork eschews rack and fender mounts - no mid-blade threaded bosses, no eyelets down at the fork drop-outs, and no hole in the crown of the fork. Now, it's supposed to cost an additional $60 (plus shippin/tax) for two little nubs with threaded eyelets in some Alternator Plates to run a (traditional) fender in the rear, but they're not available, so it's a pipe dream. You can only use their proprietary, over-priced, structurally weak rack on the rear now - which is also unavailable. Purposely planned for demand to exceed supply - such a shady way of playing games with their customers. They really messed up what used to be a great thing. Cost has risen and utility has fallen. For shame.
    Soma, Surly, Salsa, Schwalbe, SRAM, Sun-Ringlé

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritter View Post
    If only that were still the case. Through the years it has devolved into a full-on MTB machine. The carbon firestarter fork eschews rack and fender mounts - no mid-blade threaded bosses, no eyelets down at the fork drop-outs, and no hole in the crown of the fork. Now, it's supposed to cost an additional $60 (plus shippin/tax) for two little nubs with threaded eyelets in some Alternator Plates to run a (traditional) fender in the rear, but they're not available, so it's a pipe dream. You can only use their proprietary, over-priced, structurally weak rack on the rear now - which is also unavailable. Purposely planned for demand to exceed supply - such a shady way of playing games with their customers. They really messed up what used to be a great thing. Cost has risen and utility has fallen. For shame.
    Why is the alternator rack structurally weak?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzler View Post
    Why is the alternator rack structurally weak?
    Bad engineering?

    The equivalent Tubus weighs less and supports twice the load.

    I'm going custom on my rear rack just so I can get something that puts the bags lower, carries a decent load, and looks as good as a Tubus.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzler View Post
    Why is the alternator rack structurally weak?
    I know, right?!

    My RackTime has twice the load rating, less than half the cost, and 3x the functionality with the dual top rails and the "clip-it" system on the top platform. I think RackTime has something to do with Tubus, like they're owned by them or they're the same company, just aluminum and Taiwan origin, perhaps. I also prefer the rear LED tail-light mounting on the RT, where a Bush&Müller Permanent 4D TopLight (made in Germany) lives.

    (in my personal experience, flashing rear tail-lights at night messes with drivers' depth perceptions more than a solid light - more like what they're used to seeing on the roads like motorbikes.)
    Soma, Surly, Salsa, Schwalbe, SRAM, Sun-Ringlé

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    Quote Originally Posted by schnee View Post
    Bad engineering?

    The equivalent Tubus weighs less and supports twice the load.

    I'm going custom on my rear rack just so I can get something that puts the bags lower, carries a decent load, and looks as good as a Tubus.
    Interesting. I have one and it seems stout, I thought it was just cautiously rated. I've taken it mountain biking with fully loaded panniers without issue.

    I do wonder if you could simply use the longer alternator bolt kit that is available to setup a custom or different brand rack.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzler View Post
    Interesting. I have one and it seems stout, I thought it was just cautiously rated. I've taken it mountain biking with fully loaded panniers without issue.

    I do wonder if you could simply use the longer alternator bolt kit that is available to setup a custom or different brand rack.
    If you're within the rated weight, it's fine! I'm just a bit of a snob, I guess.

    I asked a couple of people about just budging together something with a standard rack, and there are a couple reasons why it isn't a good idea. First, I'll be spreading the struts under stress, which means more stress; Wayne at the Touring Store says he's had customers who've had their racks crack.

    Second, with the hooded dropouts, it also means the rack isn't directly bolted to the bike, but will have a 3/16" (or longer) spacer in between, so that means the bolt will be almost a cantilever. I think I need to have that spacer be an integral part of the rack to avoid that.

    I know someone who will give me a decent deal on a custom rack, and I need a relatively simple setup, so it's not as bad as it sounds.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnee View Post
    If you're within the rated weight, it's fine! I'm just a bit of a snob, I guess.

    I asked a couple of people about just budging together something with a standard rack, and there are a couple reasons why it isn't a good idea. First, I'll be spreading the struts under stress, which means more stress; Wayne at the Touring Store says he's had customers who've had their racks crack.

    Second, with the hooded dropouts, it also means the rack isn't directly bolted to the bike, but will have a 3/16" (or longer) spacer in between, so that means the bolt will be almost a cantilever. I think I need to have that spacer be an integral part of the rack to avoid that.

    I know someone who will give me a decent deal on a custom rack, and I need a relatively simple setup, so it's not as bad as it sounds.
    Makes sense. Post up your rack when you've got it!

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