Salsa El Mariachi Ti - stiffer than steel El Mariachi????- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Salsa El Mariachi Ti - stiffer than steel El Mariachi????

    I have owned a few El Mariachi frames, and currently own an El Mariachi Ti and an El Mariachi steel frame. Both are ridden rigid with similar components.

    It seems like everything I have read explains that Ti should be more forgiving than steel, noticably so... But to me, the ti el mariachi frame is noticably stiffer than the steel El Mariachi.....

    It is hard to tell exactly as I have to switch parts from one frame to the next to do rides or comparisons... But can anyone that currently rides a Ti El Mariachi comment on the stiffness of the frame / ride.

  2. #2
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    I ride a Lynskey built Ti El Mar.

    I think a lot of the answer for the stiffness of the Ti frame is in the oversized down tube and the ovalized connection at the bottom bracket shell - that connection is massive as frames go. Larger diameter seat and chain stays also play a role in limiting the twist of the entire frame. If all things are equal, yes, the Ti is more forgiving than steel - but it has a "more dampening" flex to it than steel does. We'll need a metallurgist to explain the whys of that.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolson72 View Post
    I have owned a few El Mariachi frames, and currently own an El Mariachi Ti and an El Mariachi steel frame. Both are ridden rigid with similar components.

    It seems like everything I have read explains that Ti should be more forgiving than steel, noticably so... But to me, the ti el mariachi frame is noticably stiffer than the steel El Mariachi.....

    It is hard to tell exactly as I have to switch parts from one frame to the next to do rides or comparisons... But can anyone that currently rides a Ti El Mariachi comment on the stiffness of the frame / ride.
    I can only comment on the difference between a Ti El Mariachi and the Niner MCR. I had both the gen1 and gen2 El Mariachi Ti frames and they were both stiff with the gen2 being even stiffer due to the 44mm headtube. I think the big key to the stiffness is the 2 inch downtube. This is significantly larger in diameter than most Ti frames I see including my Lynskey Ridgeline(1.75" downtube). Everything I have read says the downtube and bottom bracket create the stiffness and it makes sense based on how the frames rode for me. The Steel frame MCR was very compliant. While the newer El Mariachi in Kung Fu Steel is said to be stiffer than the old El Mariachi Steel frames I doubt it would be as stiff as that large diameter Ti El Mariachi.

    I hope this helps even though I do not have a direct comparison of the Steel El Mariachi and the Ti version.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the responses so far. I've had the ti el mariachi for a few years, and always *somewhat* wanted it to ride more like the steel el mariachi.

    I think the ti el mariachi is too stiff for the type of rigid riding I do, but it's hard to get rid of a ti frame when you own one.... Still trying to figure it out, but I think the answer is, likely, that Salsa designed the ti El Mariachi to be very stiff....

  5. #5
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    If it's an XL, I'll be glad to take it off your hands...

  6. #6
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    Late to the party but I have a Moto Fly Ti 29er with a 2" DT and find it to be quite compliant, certainly not harsh at all. I think what may also be affecting the ride is that Salsa specs straight gauge tubing as opposed to butted tubing. Again, it comes down to geometry and while I have no doubt the outer diameter plays the biggest role, the wall thickness does to a lesser degree.

    Update. I based the straight gauge tubing assumption on the 2012 Lynsky models and not their Taiwan produced models which likely have butted tubing.
    Last edited by xmessenger; 09-21-2015 at 04:31 AM. Reason: update.

  7. #7
    Ahhh the pain....
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    I had a Lynskey Pro29 with the 44mm HT and that huge twisted downtube. It was VERY stiff...as stiff as my Carbon Niner. I also have a 2010 Lynskey Ridgeline that truly rides like a Ti bike...compliant and comfortable during the long haul.

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