Question about G2 forks.....- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Question about G2 forks.....

    What will be the effects if I were to put a Fox 29er "G2" fork on a regular 29er frame?

    Currently, I have a RS Tora race (100mm travel) with a 46mm offset....

    Thanks in advance everyone....

    Items in question are:

    ** FOX F29 F100 RL G2 FORK (100mm travel) ---> (I believe it is a 52mm offset)


    ** 2009 Voodoo Canzo (large frame 20")


  2. #2
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    Answer : Needlessly quick handling.

    I suggested the 72d STA/47mm offset for the On-One 29" geometry. TO overwhelm the nahsayers: "it will enver turn in", and "big wheels will get stuck on tight singletrack".

    The On-One's just rip up tight singletrack, but can be a handfull when it gets bumpy, IMO.

    Quicker handling does NOT equal better handling, does NOT equal faster laptimes.

    G2 is where a desirable hed tube angle (for stability) and larger offset (responsive handling) come together. A plus and a minus do not nett a "mediocre" total. A plus and a plus do not add up to "a better bike yet". Life is not so simple, even if bikes are the simplest of designs, already figured out in the 1800's, still being re-invented by our generation. We forget faster than we learn, when it comes to bikes.

    Super-quick handling bikes will make you feel "oh so fast" and very much "alive", but they will not be better than a well-balanced bike.

    Fisher didn't just dream up some numbers (like I did for a few 29" brands), they actually had frames and forks custom made to a variety of angles and offsets, and wen matching them. Test riders, of international calibre, pretty much had to agree on what is now sold as G2 as being the "best" combination.
    Your preferences may well be different based on your "riding style" or "competence", and "riding enjoyment". You will however not round a corner, let alone a lap, quicker on a quicker-handling bike.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Answer : Needlessly quick handling...

    Fisher didn't just dream up some numbers (like I did for a few 29" brands), they actually had frames and forks custom made to a variety of angles and offsets, and wen matching them. Test riders, of international calibre, pretty much had to agree on what is now sold as G2 as being the "best" combination.
    Your preferences may well be different based on your "riding style" or "competence", and "riding enjoyment". You will however not round a corner, let alone a lap, quicker on a quicker-handling bike.
    Ha! Good one cloxxki.

    The Fisher HiFi's use the same G2 fork and they have a 71deg head angle just like the (edit: small) Canzo. I guess their testing showed that it worked too and that people liked the handling

    EDIT: I missed that the larger frames have a steeper hand angle by 1 deg. That would make the handling quicker. Maybe a G2 120mm fork would be a better choice

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    Ha! Good one cloxxki.

    The Fisher HiFi's use the same G2 fork and they have a 71deg head angle just like the (edit: small) Canzo. I guess their testing showed that it worked too and that people liked the handling

    EDIT: I missed that the larger frames have a steeper hand angle by 1 deg. That would make the handling quicker. Maybe a G2 120mm fork would be a better choice
    Does the HiFi not also sag in the back, or was that taken into account? It may well target a different crowd, newer to 29".
    Longer forks can be a trick yes. It's not for everyone, as 20mm longer a fork also reduces reach by ~12mm, more than have a frame size's increment. BB is raised 8mm. Some bikes can use that, some don't.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  5. #5
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    Yup...

    Be careful when comparing a hardtail's geometry to a full susser's geometry: note that a HT will sag only at the fork, this inceases the effective head angle and seat angle. A FS bike will sag about equally front and rear, and the frame angles will remain constant. As an example, a 100 mm fork on a hardtail frame, with about 25 mm of sag, will result in about half a degree steeper head and seat angle than nominal.
    The G2 offset forks were designed to allow a 29er frame to have a shallower head angle, while maintaining precise handling (by reducing trail). If one puts a G2 fork on a frame with a typical (71-72 degree) 29er head angle, one will have a bike with very quick steering, and the bike may be prone to tucking the front wheel and endoing in steep descending. Of course, if you have a bike that handles too slow for you, then using a G2 fork might be just what you need, I prefer a stable, balanced bike, and know that a G2 fork would not work for me on a steep head angle bike. Note that JHK rides a 46 mm offset Reba on his Superfly instead of a 52 mm G2, apparently he prefers a very stable and "slow" steering bike.

  6. #6
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    I always used the rule of thumb that 20mm fork sag is actually a full degree. Who can check our math here?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  7. #7
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    With the 72 degree HTA on a hard tail, the G2 likely has more offset taht you'd care to have. However...

    I have a full-suspension with a 71 degree HTA that I've installed a G2 fork on about 1.5 years ago, and I'm happy with it. I'd been running a 38mm offset Reba (older model) and didn't like the handling, so I switched to the Fox to get the greater offset when it first came out.

    Pros: On steeper climbs, I didn't like the Reba, especially when out of the saddle. There were times where a rock was in my path and I'd want to go around it. I kept thinking I want to go left (or right) by a few inches, but the bike never seemed to want to go there. There was very little subtle input that I could give the bike to make it not go straight. With the G2 fork, I have much better control, and I can put the front wheel exactly where I want it to be without much input. I think, "I want to be two inches to the right" and the bike goes there. It takes just a little input to make the bike move at slower speeds.

    Cons: The only place where i notice an negative traits is on steep, fast and loose sections of trail. When going through a fast downhill turn, if the trail is hard-packed or sandy the bike does great. If the trail has lots of loose rock and the front end is moving around, I find that the front wheel wants to turn a sharper angle that I want it to. i.e. The handlebars have a tendency to spin around toward the frame, and I have to fight to keep it straight. It definitely slows me down in these sections, as I need to really control the bike. Other than that, I don't notice any drawbacks. Where I live most of the trails are hardpack, so it's not a big deal.

    With a steeper HTA, you'll notice these traits even more. At slow speeds you'll have a quick front end that is easy to control. At higher speeds your front end will also be quicker, which makes controlling it more difficult. I like quicker handling bikes, but in your case I would go with a 46mm offset fork.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  8. #8
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    well...

    How much change there will be will depend on: the wheelbase of the bike, head angle, and fork offset. I think you are right that 20 mm is closer to one degree on most bikes, I suspect that it is safe to say the difference will be .5-1 degree depending on these factors.

  9. #9
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    OK.... I don't want to sound like a dumb-arse here, but I'm getting lost with a few of the responses....

    My Canzo is a full suspension (4" rear / 4" front travel)....

    Currently set-up with a 46mm offset RS fork.... I'm looking to get a take-off Fox G2 with 52mm offset....

    Question is ----> Will my steering become faster/steeper...... Or, will it get a little slower/slacker with the addition of the G2 fork???

    Thanks for all the input fellas....

  10. #10
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    yes...

    All other things remaining equal, more offset=less trail=faster steering response. On your canzo, going from a 46 mm offset Reba to a 51 mm offset (G2) Fox will result in quicker steering and less stability.

  11. #11
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    What about wheel flop? When my Fisher 292 frame broke, I got a HiFi frame as a replacement but used my old Reba fork. Maybe it's just in my head, but the front end seems to wander more on slow, steep climbs.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    All other things remaining equal, more offset=less trail=faster steering response. On your canzo, going from a 46 mm offset Reba to a 51 mm offset (G2) Fox will result in quicker steering and less stability.
    Thanks!!!

    That's what I was asking.... I saw a pretty good deal, but didn't want to jump on it since I knew the G2 stuff was a little different, but I wasn't quite sure how it would affect my ride...

    My Canzo steers quick enough right now... I don't think I want it to steer any quicker....

    Ride safe all.........

  13. #13
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    Hey guys,
    Hate to raise this thread from the dead, but I just purchased one of these G2 shocks on ebay. Frankly, I did not pay much attention to the "G2" part until I came across this thread.

    It is still enroute, but it is a 2007 Tora 318 Solo Air G2 and it will replacing the Dart 3 on my 2008 Specialized RH Disc. Geometry is like this;

    Seat tube length = 533mm
    Top tube length = 640mm
    Chainstay lngth = 615mm
    BB height = 426mm
    Seat tube angle = 73 deg
    Head tube angle= 70 deg
    Wheel base = 1127mm
    Head tube hgt = 140mm

    I do very little steep downhilling on this bike and very little technical stuff.
    Mostly this is just a trail and XC bike.

    Am I going to have problems with this fork with the G2 aspect?

    Thanks in advance, and sorry, once again for dragging this up from two weeks back.

    D

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drum
    Am I going to have problems with this fork with the G2 aspect?
    Nope. Go bang on it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drum
    It is still enroute, but it is a 2007 Tora 318 Solo Air G2
    I saw that very fork on ebay. Let me put you at ease. There was no G2 offset in 2007. The G2 Tora's that came on the 2008 bikes have a G2 decal on the fork also (which this fork doesn't have).
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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