Pivot Mach 429 or Salsa Horsethief- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Pivot Mach 429 or Salsa Horsethief

    Let's assume the price doesn't matter, the 429 is a 2011 model and the Horsethief comes with a Kashima RP23 in this country.

    The terrain will be a bit of everything from smooth XC to rooty AM trails. It will be replacing my 11 Stumpjumper FSR, primarily for something different but better suspension and a stiffer frame would be good (not that the Stumpy is bad at all in those areas).

    I'm interested in reading some thoughts from other riders for a change.

  2. #2
    Missouri sucks...
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    Well, you're comparing apples to oranges. Mach is more of a fast, XC race bike and the Horsethief is more of a dedicated trail bike. If you're a balls to the wall speed demon, you'll LOVE the Mach! If you putt around and like to try stupid obstacles over and over until you conquer them, the Horsethief is your weapon. I've owned a Mach and really liked it. VERY efficient when pedaling and pretty plush for a 100mm travel bike. I wanted something with a bit more travel and slacker angles so went to a Turner Sultan and don't regret it one bit I have more fun on a Horsethief style, trail oriented bike. You may or may not. I will say, the Horsethief's suspension is not as engineered and being longer travel won't be nearly as efficient as the Mach unless you have the ProPedal on. Some people like high efficiency, some don't care. Be honest with yourself and pick the tool or the play thing

    All that being said, the Sultan is a hybrid of the two bikes you're asking about. The frame is actually lighter than the Mach with 125mm of rear travel. Maybe try to hunt one down if possible. Mine's an '11. For '12 they changed a few things, the big difference being the 142x12mm rear axle standard.

    One more last thing... The Kona Satori and Transition Bandit are very close cousins to the Horsethief. Maybe check them out if the Horsethief is more your speed or budget. Might be able to get a better deal on the Kona or Transition and essentially get about the same thing The Transition is getting rave reviews and is my favorite of the 3 cousins...

  3. #3
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    When I was in the market for my first 29 I was looking at a Mach 429. Very stiff and very nice ride. Price was the only thing holding me back. I never laid eyes on a horse thief. I did wind up going with a giant anthem 29 and it was a very comparible ride to the pivot, still very stiff and a few lbs lighter

  4. #4
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    All I can say is I friggin love my Horsethief. Screw all the classifications for XC and All Mountain and Trail blah blah blah...the Horsethief does it all well and so far has been absolutely amazing on any of the Boise, ID trails I've thrown at it.

  5. #5
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    Interesting comments. Iím starting to wonder whether the thru axle on the Horsethief matters much when the 429 is apparently so stiff anyway.

    There are some good deals on the Sultan but the sizing comes up too small for me, as it does on the Bandit too. The Satori looks good for sizing and has shorter chainstays but costs more and comes with a cheaper shock.

  6. #6
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    Sultan all the way- didn't realize they had gone to 142x12- that's a step forward

  7. #7
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    I think the thru axle will be standard in a couple of years, especially for 29ers. I'd seek one out...

  8. #8
    Missouri sucks...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2legit2quit View Post
    I think the thru axle will be standard in a couple of years, especially for 29ers. I'd seek one out...
    Agreed. Even some hardtails are starting to come with them!

  9. #9
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    i second the horsethief i love mine it does everyting great.

  10. #10
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    Yup two very different bikes. I think the 429 falls under an XC/trail bike; leaning more towards the XC side of things. The Horsethief is pure trail.

    I really like the 429, but I think it's way too much $$$ for what it is. About the same price as a carbon tallboy. Both are great picks for a XC/Trail bike. If I had 4-5k to drop and did more endurance, racing, and xc riding I'd look at these bikes.

    Plenty of trail 29ers out there, and the Horsethief is a great option. Check out the RIP9, Bandit 29, Satori, and Stumpjumper as well. I own a Horsethief, and I really enjoy it. I think I'd be happy on a Stumpy or RIP9 as well. If you're doing a fair amount of technical riding, go with the trail 29er. If your into the speed go XC.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168 View Post
    Let's assume the price doesn't matter, the 429 is a 2011 model and the Horsethief comes with a Kashima RP23 in this country.

    The terrain will be a bit of everything from smooth XC to rooty AM trails. It will be replacing my 11 Stumpjumper FSR, primarily for something different but better suspension and a stiffer frame would be good (not that the Stumpy is bad at all in those areas).

    I'm interested in reading some thoughts from other riders for a change.
    Just bought a Horsethief...First ride tomorrow...so cant tell you yet whether I like it...but just built it this evening and a quick spin up Pitch Hill put a very prmoising smile on the face...if you're about in the Surrey Hills tomorrow PM look out for me...!

  12. #12
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    That should float down Death Star very nicely! Looking forward to hearing what you think of it.

  13. #13
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    While the Pivot certainly has a slightly less relaxed geo than the Salsa, I think it is still a spectacular bike for just about anything. I ride mine with my fork set at 120mm almost always, even when racing at times and it has been excellent. I ride drops, jumps, and just about everything else.

    I dont have a lot of seat time on a slacker 26" bike, but from the way that some of the more freeridey trails around here are built, it seems that those bikes can handle much smaller launch transitions for jumps. I would assume though, that any 29er would have that awkward feeling when doing jumps that have a smaller than ideal lip transition which means I cant see the Salsa having an advantage in that category of riding.

    As far as plushness goes for the suspension, I havent noticed anything that is too much for my 120 in the front/100 in the rear. I think the biggest advantage to more travel is that you generally get some slacker angles to go along with it, which leads to more confidence to bomb through chunkier stuff at higher speeds - which is most certainly fun, but not overly necessary unless you are trying to be more optimized for lift serviced riding. Overall, I argue that the Pivot is a great balance of all riding characteristics.

  14. #14
    Cassoulet forever !
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    In a recent interview, pivot boss stated that a 120mm 29er is coming from pivot. Will be interesting.

    I loved the Sultan rear suspension, but not so much the geometry. It was a 2010 model, i would like to test the updated version.
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

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