Paying premium for mfg's like Orbea over Specialized, Trek, Giant?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Paying premium for mfg's like Orbea over Specialized, Trek, Giant?

    Looking at a few carbon HT 29ers.

    Without getting into a debate over brands or manufacturing processes, is there a significant price "premium" for the likes of an Orbea or even a Scott compared to a Specialized, Trek or Giant? IF specs were equal as possible and presuming the fit/feel are the same throughout for the individual rider. I'm asking about apples-to-apples pricing, customer service and warranty based on scale of economics and the delivered product.

    Not to pick on one brand, but as an example: I know Giant is renowned for packing a lot of quality into their bikes but from my experiences (owned 3 in the past 10 years) the wheelset is a heavy monstrosity and some items like the 330 gram seatpost must go.

    Will this be the same for the aforementioned brand's higher-end offerings in their 29er carbon HT lineup? Or do Orbea's and other mid-higher spec 29er carbon HT come with quality spec that doesn't need to be swapped out thus negating the initial higher cost? Or is the likes of a Giant XTC carbon or even a Superfly such a good offering at their respective pricepoint that a new wheelset can be factored in since the other brands will need a few things swapped out in the name of lighter weight.
    Last edited by danK; 08-07-2011 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK View Post
    Looking at a few carbon HT 29ers.

    Without getting into a debate over brands or manufacturing processes, is there a significant price "premium" for the likes of an Orbea or even a Scott compared to a Specialized, Trek or Giant? IF specs were equal as possible and presuming the fit/feel are the same throughout for the individual rider. I'm asking about apples-to-apples pricing, customer service and warranty based on scale of economics and the delivered product.

    Not to pick on one brand, but as an example: I know Giant is renowned for packing a lot of quality into their bikes but from my experiences (owned 3 in the past 10 years) the wheelset is a heavy monstrosity and some items like the 330 gram seatpost must go.

    Will this be the same for the aforementioned brand's higher-end offerings in their 29er carbon HT lineup? Or do Orbea's and other mid-higher spec 29er carbon HT come with quality spec that doesn't need to be swapped out thus negating the initial higher cost? Or is the likes of a Giant XTC carbon or even a Superfly such a good offering at their respective pricepoint that a new wheelset can be factored in since the other brands will need a few things swapped out in the name of lighter weight.



    It's all about economy of scale, the largest manufacturers can offer more value for the dollar because they sell so many more bikes. So in short many of the offerings from the largest makers are that good of a deal, that factoring in a new wheel set can still tip the balance towards them.

  3. #3
    You know my steez...
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    I think a little exclusivity is worth paying extra for, as long as one can afford it.

    All the big brands make great bikes, but you'll see those brands much more often on the trails than Orbea or something like that.

    (Actually Orbea IS a big manufacturer, they just don't have a big presence in the US Like Trek or Specialized etc).
    I'm unique, just like everyone else....

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    Orbea carbon hardtails are more $ than Spec'd?

  5. #5
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    im about to get an orbea alma, full xt...

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    Big mfg also put big money into advertising...

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    Another thing to think about is whether or not the small guy can afford to give the warranty and customer service of the bigger guys. I know Giant has gone above and beyond anything I could imagine with frame replacements. I dont understand people that want to be the only one riding x,y or z bike on the trail. There is no advantage to it.

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    Only 1 dealer in my entire state and they have a 20" aluminum. Need to search for an online dealer....if Orbea allows internet sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by security58 View Post
    im about to get an orbea alma, full xt...
    Last edited by danK; 08-08-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #9
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    Admittedly I used to be one of those guys. Great for parking lot discussions or when taking a break. But when I'm dry heaving or blowing up my heart rate or being passed by someone in much better shape, I don't think about "man, I haven't seen a (enter brand or model of bike) all day, sweet!"

    Quote Originally Posted by fordolet View Post
    I dont understand people that want to be the only one riding x,y or z bike on the trail. There is no advantage to it.

  10. #10
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    As far an I know, Orbea is owned by Trek.

    The price on any bike comes down to personal value. Is the bike a good deal to you?

    For me, I don't see any value in a Trek Sawyer. But there are plenty of other people that do, so the price is the price regardless of me thoughts. I see a lot of value in Specialized tires... they are a tad more expensive and I use them. But a lot of people think that is dumb. They don't see the value.

    ?? As long as your bike fits well, isn't broken all the time, and fits into your budget... who cares?
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHaq View Post
    As far an I know, Orbea is owned by Trek.
    Orbea is NOT owned by Trek. They are an approx 150 year old company (they used to be a tubing manufacturer before bikes were invented) and are a part of an employee owned cooperative in the Basque region of Spain. I have had the chance to be at their factory in Spain, it is pretty amazing and high-tech. There are 3 generations of Basque families working there. The cooperative owns a university, which has a composites engineering department. This school is constantly training young engineers who hope to get jobs at Orbea. In all, it is pretty freaking cool.

    You might like paying more to a business owned by the workers, if you are into that sort of thinking, maybe? I like it.

    Cheers,
    C
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  12. #12
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    CORRECT Orbea is NOT owned by Trek.

    Orbea is the third oldest cycling company in the world behind Bianchi and Fuji.

    They actually used to be a Gun manufacturer as well.

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    I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Is a $5,000 Rolex really better than a $100 Seiko watch? If having the Rolex makes you feel better it is.

    Technically speaking the more you pay for something the better you're likely to feel about. There was a study on behavioural economics done on season ticket holders at a musical venue with a control group and another group which paid twice as much. Guess which group attended the theater more often? The group that paid twice as much.

    Data suggests that the more we pay the better we feel about something.

    Of course with wine,unless you're specially trained, people often prefer the cheaper wines to the more expensive ones at least in the surveys that I've heard about.

  14. #14
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    Not to hijack my own thread but I wore my best friend's Rolex Oyster for a year (he didn't care for it) and did not get one comment or compliment. But my $55 Timex is like a kudo magnet. And as for wine, of course cheaper is better. A good friend is hardcore into wine and even buys futures, and when I bring over a $4.68 bottle of Barefoot he cringes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mefistofeles View Post
    I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Is a $5,000 Rolex really better than a $100 Seiko watch? If having the Rolex makes you feel better it is.

    Technically speaking the more you pay for something the better you're likely to feel about. There was a study on behavioural economics done on season ticket holders at a musical venue with a control group and another group which paid twice as much. Guess which group attended the theater more often? The group that paid twice as much.

    Data suggests that the more we pay the better we feel about something.

    Of course with wine,unless you're specially trained, people often prefer the cheaper wines to the more expensive ones at least in the surveys that I've heard about.

  15. #15
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    First of all, we are definitely not owned by Trek or any other cycling company.
    I would also add that we spend a considerable amount of time and energy making sure that we are competitive with other manufacturers when it comes to price and component spec. However, every manufacturer values different qualities when specifying which components will be on their bike models. Some will try to be the lightest, some the lowest price, and some try to achieve value through performance and quality. You can probably guess which one of those we strive for.
    Frank Webber | Orbea USA
    Customer Service | MTB Promotion

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mefistofeles View Post
    I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Is a $5,000 Rolex really better than a $100 Seiko watch? If having the Rolex makes you feel better it is.

    Technically speaking the more you pay for something the better you're likely to feel about. There was a study on behavioural economics done on season ticket holders at a musical venue with a control group and another group which paid twice as much. Guess which group attended the theater more often? The group that paid twice as much.

    Data suggests that the more we pay the better we feel about something.

    Of course with wine,unless you're specially trained, people often prefer the cheaper wines to the more expensive ones at least in the surveys that I've heard about.
    that is knowledge, agree in every aspect

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    It's all about economy of scale, the largest manufacturers can offer more value for the dollar because they sell so many more bikes. So in short many of the offerings from the largest makers are that good of a deal, that factoring in a new wheel set can still tip the balance towards them.
    This is rarely ever the case, maybe with some "smarter" larger brands. The reality is that the larger the company name the more they know they can overprice their bikes and people will still buy them because they are buying a brand. Again this isn't every brand but it is pretty common.

  18. #18
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    Orbea is listed as a ''business partner"on Pacific "Cycles' website. So i guess they are mostly made by Pacific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slurry View Post
    Orbea is listed as a ''business partner"on Pacific "Cycles' website. So i guess they are mostly made by Pacific.
    How do you get that Orbea is made by Pacific? Being a business partner with somebody doesn't mean you make their product. Please explain, with valid facts.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenke View Post
    How do you get that Orbea is made by Pacific? Being a business partner with somebody doesn't mean you make their product. Please explain, with valid facts.
    Because other listed "Business Partners" - Niner bikes, Banshee bikes, Canfield brothers, Diamondback - have some/all of their frames made by Pacific.

    I also said "I guess they are made by Pacific"

  21. #21
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    Where was my bike made? - The Bike Pedlar, Nashville, TN

    (cached page)

    This is an interesting list of who's bikes are made where. Most of the info seems to have come from the respective manufacturers' websites.

  22. #22
    errr...
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    I've had my 2011 Alma H50 for over 5 months now. Great bike!

  23. #23
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    From Orbea's site

    I ride a Spanish made alu Lanza that rocks. Best riding aluminum bike I've ever been on.

    The plant in China is owned and operated by Orbea.

    ORBEA
    INTERNATIONALIZATION
    Orbea manufactures a wide range of bicycles, from mountain and racing bikes to trekking and children’s models. The production system is based on specialist assembly lines for each product type, at different centers all over the world. This was necessary for the brand’s internationalization, and we are present in over 50 markets on all five continents.
    We have:
    Three production plants in:
    Spain, where we design all of our products. We then manufacture our products at different plants, supplying almost all of our European market needs.
    Portugal, where we manufacture children’s and entry-level mountain bikes
    and China, where we manufacture bicycles for supply to the Asian and American markets.
    Assembly plants in the USA and Australia,
    And different subsidiary companies in the UK, Belgium, Holland, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Russia, etc.
    Wherever you are, we're nearby.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuky View Post
    Orbea is NOT owned by Trek. They are an approx 150 year old company (they used to be a tubing manufacturer before bikes were invented) and are a part of an employee owned cooperative in the Basque region of Spain. I have had the chance to be at their factory in Spain, it is pretty amazing and high-tech. There are 3 generations of Basque families working there. The cooperative owns a university, which has a composites engineering department. This school is constantly training young engineers who hope to get jobs at Orbea. In all, it is pretty freaking cool.

    You might like paying more to a business owned by the workers, if you are into that sort of thinking, maybe? I like it.

    Cheers,
    C
    THANKYOU for clearing that up. Why is it that people think Trek owns everything? Oh, maybe because its in your face all the time with Lance, Le Tour, etc etc etc. I have an Orbea road bike and LOVE it. The quality is outstanding. I don't mind paying a premium for a bike frame that is made with passion and commitment vs marketing and gimicks! Its also why I own two Niners. I know I'm kicking an ant bed here, but so what.
    "...quit hitting me with your hammer"
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    Niner EMD 1x10 ~ Niner SIR9 SS ~ Cannondale Scalpel Si

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