"OLD SKOOL" meets "NEW SKOOL" 29ER- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    "OLD SKOOL" meets "NEW SKOOL" 29ER

    after much though and research, ive decided that the way to go forward is to first go back.
    to do this i plan to build a 29er with a mix of old and new skool design philosophies.
    im basically building a replica of my 19.5in voodoo bizango with a 72 deg ha and 73.5 deg sa. the tt will be 23.5in which will require me to run a 135mm stem, just like on the voodoo.
    the cs will be 17.5 in, and the the wheelbase will be kept short, great for the tight, twisty singletrack found here on the east coast. i know many of you will think "man that stem is long" and by todays standards it is. however, my bizango rips through tight trails with quicker steering than any long tt short stem 26er ive ever ridden. it does get a little nervous on steep downhills, but those are few and far between where i live and ride. plus ive NEVER gone over the bars on a steep downhill so im not too worried.
    its definately going to be different from the majority of 29ers, and hopefully that difference will serve my performance goals.
    feel free to give me your input. any advice or recommendations will be greatly appreciated, after all thats how i built my first 29er (soma juice) which i love.
    almost forgot, its being built by the master of the east coast ht, Ted Wojcik !. man, oh man, i cant wait !.
    Last edited by edouble; 02-10-2006 at 06:33 PM. Reason: add
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  2. #2
    (was) Big in Japan
    Reputation: TheSingleGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,008
    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    almost forgot, its being built by the master of the east coast ht, Ted Wojcik !. man, oh man, i cant wait !.
    What does Ted say?
    Ride.

  3. #3
    Squalor
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,573
    Sounds like a cool build.

    You might want to also consider trail and not just HTA to get a similar steering feeling on the big wheel bike.

    To get the same trail you had on the 72deg HTA 26er, you need to go about 1.5 degrees steeper in the HTA on the 29er (assuming you are using a fork with the same rake - NOTE: this is a big assumption)

    So for example:

    26"er
    72* HTA
    38mm Fork Rake
    Trail = ~67mm

    29"er
    72* HTA
    38mm Fork Rake
    Trail = ~78mm

    29"er
    73.5 HTA
    38mm Fork Rake
    Trail = ~68mm

    Just something to consider. Ted CLEARLY knows what he is doing, so he may do this on his own, but since you asked...

    Post pics when you get the bike!

    LP
    Last edited by lanpope; 02-10-2006 at 07:32 PM.

  4. #4
    ( )
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    754
    Man that's a long stem.
    I'm diggin the shorter top tube/longer stem combo that my medium KM gives me. It definitely handles faster, and my weight feels more centered over the front wheel, which would make some people recoil in horror, but the big wheels eliminate any potential-endo sensation. Ironically, the only times i've gone over the handlebars is on flat ground doing something stupid, or going *uphill* if I'm grinding out a tough climb and my wheel gets stuck on a rock or hole.

    Yours sounds like a solid plan. I read the writeup on Ted in one of the recent Dirt Rags. i'm sure the finished product will be beautiful. Good luck with everything!

  5. #5
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    Sounds pretty good to me though rather than dictating the geometry you want I would just tell TW you want the bike to fit and handle like your Voodoo and let him tweak the numbers. He certainly knows his stuff.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    my bad...

    Quote Originally Posted by lanpope
    Sounds like a cool build.

    You might want to also consider trail and not just HTA to get a similar steering feeling on the big wheel bike.

    To get the same trail you had on the 72deg HTA 26er, you need to go about 1.5 degrees steeper in the HTA on the 29er (assuming you are using a fork with the same rake - NOTE: this is a big assumption)

    So for example:

    26"er
    72* HTA
    38mm Fork Rake
    Trail = ~67mm

    29"er
    72* HTA
    38mm Fork Rake
    Trail = ~78mm

    29"er
    73.5 HTA
    38mm Fork Rake
    Trail = ~68mm

    Just something to consider. Ted CLEARLY knows what he is doing, so he may do this on his own, but since you asked...

    Post pics when you get the bike!

    LP
    my voodoo has a 71 deg ha. the 72 deg ha is for the new bike. ill try to post, no success yet w/ my other bike. i think need to reformat my pics.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    so far...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSingleGuy
    What does Ted say?
    he's kool with it. ive been giving my input but basically letting him decide if it will work or not. so far so good.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    heeeeey....

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Sounds pretty good to me though rather than dictating the geometry you want I would just tell TW you want the bike to fit and handle like your Voodoo and let him tweak the numbers. He certainly knows his stuff.
    why didny i thinka that lol!
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  9. #9
    Witty McWitterson
    Reputation: ~martini~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,023
    130mm stem? That's not so bad. I had my Hunter built your way(the Old Way) back in 2001. I'm running a 24" TT and a 140mm stem. Other wise, its the same numbers as yours. And man does it love single track! Handles great on my tight midwest trails. You'll love it!
    Just a regular guy.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    man, that is ....

    Quote Originally Posted by ~martini~
    130mm stem? That's not so bad. I had my Hunter built your way(the Old Way) back in 2001. I'm running a 24" TT and a 140mm stem. Other wise, its the same numbers as yours. And man does it love single track! Handles great on my tight midwest trails. You'll love it!
    music to my ears!, sweet, sweet music !.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  11. #11
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    My BigShot is in that "style", too. "19-inch" frame, 17.25" chainstays, 23" ETT and a 150mm stem.

    Tight trails, open descents, steeps, it just flys!
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    wow!,,,

    150mm stem , should i have "stem envy"? lol. all jokes aside it just proves there's more than one way to make it happen. uh...whats a "big shot?".
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  13. #13
    WAWE
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    ive NEVER gone over the bars on a steep downhill so im not too worried.
    Is that really valid if you walk the difficult steep sections?!



  14. #14
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    Holy Mackeral Batman...

    Quote Originally Posted by aosty
    Is that really valid if you walk the difficult steep sections?!



    IVE BEEN EXPOSED !, LOL. now whatch me go flying over the bars on my next steep downhill .
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,063
    sounds awesome to me. tight east coast ripper! i often thought a 29er could easily have a longer stem. mine is a 110 and i swear i am more confident on steeps with that bike as i used to be on my freeride pig.

    we are gonna NEED some pictures!

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    Kool Bike...

    VERY KOOL BIKE !.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    Yeah Man...

    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill
    sounds awesome to me. tight east coast ripper! i often thought a 29er could easily have a longer stem. mine is a 110 and i swear i am more confident on steeps with that bike as i used to be on my freeride pig.

    we are gonna NEED some pictures!
    i spoke to Ted this morning and he feels the design is spot on for my needs. im looking forward to shredding the tight twisty east coast trails from NC to MA this spring and summer . Ted also told me the frame would weigh 3.7-3.8 lbs !. thats hard to believe, my custom curtlo 26er weighs 4.7 lbs. i dont care about weight (to a point) my soma weighs 5.25 lbs and im more than fine with it. he says heavier does not mean stronger, so in 4-6 weeks we will see wha-da dilly-yo !.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,592
    If you were running straight bars or riser bars would you use that length of stem though?

    Cool bike and cool set up nonetheless!

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,592
    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    i spoke to Ted this morning and he feels the design is spot on for my needs. im looking forward to shredding the tight twisty east coast trails from NC to MA this spring and summer . Ted also told me the frame would weigh 3.7-3.8 lbs !. thats hard to believe, my custom curtlo 26er weighs 4.7 lbs. i dont care about weight (to a point) my soma weighs 5.25 lbs and im more than fine with it. he says heavier does not mean stronger, so in 4-6 weeks we will see wha-da dilly-yo !.
    Looking forward to seeing the photos. What type of steel is Ted building your frame with?? Did he say?? Did you pick out a paint color/scheme yet? His frames get painted across the street don't they?

    How are you going to deck this frame out? Already have the parts or are you acquiring them now?

    Rumor has it that there is only one NEMBA deal frame left - perhaps it is already spoken for as well.

    I wonder if mcd gave Ted a call? hmmmmmmm.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    ok, here we go...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Looking forward to seeing the photos. What type of steel is Ted building your frame with?? Did he say?? Did you pick out a paint color/scheme yet? His frames get painted across the street don't they?

    How are you going to deck this frame out? Already have the parts or are you acquiring them now?

    Rumor has it that there is only one NEMBA deal frame left - perhaps it is already spoken for as well.

    I wonder if mcd gave Ted a call? hmmmmmmm.
    im using a white bros bw.8 fork
    bonty mustangs w/xtr hubs
    bonty xr's w/ stans
    avid single digit ti's w/ sram 9.0sl levers
    sram 9.0sl shifters and derailleurs
    salsa 135mmx10deg rise stem
    salsa carbon flat bar 26in
    salsa shaft or race face next post
    truvativ stylo 180mm cranks
    time atac pedals
    bonty racelite saddle

    THANK YOU, EBAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    i already have everything except the raceface next post. my bike will be pearl white w/ red lettering, and yes, they do get painted across the street. i got the nemba deal, dont know how many are left. Ted is using columbus foco, life and spirit to build my frame. he sayS he's had better result's with this stuff than 853 as far as durability of the stays goes.
    IM SO EXCITED!!!, ive only seen one Wojcik before, it was unlike any other bike ive seen. the paint and welds (back then i knew nothing about weld quality) were amazing. i didnt think the bike had been welded. it looked like one forged or cast structure. hope mines is as nice.
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  22. #22
    Cold. Blue. Steel.
    Reputation: OneGearGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,709
    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    If you were running straight bars or riser bars would you use that length of stem though?

    Cool bike and cool set up nonetheless!
    My thoughts exactly.
    Spinning and Grinning...

  23. #23
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    If you were running straight bars or riser bars would you use that length of stem though?

    Cool bike and cool set up nonetheless!
    Yes...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,592
    edouble - should be a fantastic looking bike!

    shiggy - thanks for the reply and photo!

  25. #25

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Rumor has it that there is only one NEMBA deal frame left - perhaps it is already spoken for as well. I wonder if mcd gave Ted a call? hmmmmmmm.


    Not sure if I got the last one.... but I just got one!

    I'll be building it up with Paragon sliders to use primarily as a SS. Trying to decide on a color now...... been thinking about a shiny pea green, a medium blue, or maybe a deep red, like a candy apple red..... can't wait to get out on it. I'll post pics when it's together.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,592
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesRfun
    Not sure if I got the last one.... but I just got one!

    I'll be building it up with Paragon sliders to use primarily as a SS. Trying to decide on a color now...... been thinking about a shiny pea green, a medium blue, or maybe a deep red, like a candy apple red..... can't wait to get out on it. I'll post pics when it's together.
    Congrats!

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    whats your...

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesRfun
    Not sure if I got the last one.... but I just got one!

    I'll be building it up with Paragon sliders to use primarily as a SS. Trying to decide on a color now...... been thinking about a shiny pea green, a medium blue, or maybe a deep red, like a candy apple red..... can't wait to get out on it. I'll post pics when it's together.
    geometry look like?, its so kool that someone else is going with Ted. he deserves a lot more love than he's show on this forum. how many builders have his experience and skill level?, not many. i admit i didnt know how awesome he was until i researched him. after doing so, im honored to have him building my 29er .
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  28. #28

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    28
    I've been riding for many years here on the (north) east coast with lots of people who have/had Ted's frames. The welds are really incredible. A true perfectionist who knows how to do it right, from start to finish. Truthfully, I didn't know about the "deal" Ted had put in place until I saw the thread here on MTBR. I was planning this new build and it just came together perfectly, like Ted's frames. I don't have geometry #'s yet - I just sent a check to Ted and told him I'd call him sometime this coming week to go over a few things. As it unfolds, I'll post some details and pics. Now, if I could just pic the darn color.....

  29. #29
    try driving your car less
    Reputation: jh_on_the_cape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,097
    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    so in 4-6 weeks we will see wha-da dilly-yo !.
    dilly dilly?
    Only boring people get bored.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    a blast from the recent past!...

    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    dilly dilly?
    ted told me some time in april, middle to end. so i'll just have to wait. funny, i was just thinking of calling him as i logged on and then i saw this thread resurrected .
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  31. #31
    R I D E S T E E L
    Reputation: one1spede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    646
    I agree with those that say you should have Ted dictate your geometry. I guess, from my experience, a bike that needs a super long stem doesn't fit. I've ridden both ways and a slightly longer HT is much more stable, even if the HA is steep. This really helps keep the front end on the ground. I'd think on twisty, rocky single track, you'd want a bike that is both stable and quick.

    I love the Bizangos, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather see you get a bike that fits and still does what you want it to. I'm sure Ted will do whatever you'd like, but hopefully he'll lead the process. Just be sure to leave room for that.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: edouble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,672

    point taken...

    Quote Originally Posted by one1spede
    I agree with those that say you should have Ted dictate your geometry. I guess, from my experience, a bike that needs a super long stem doesn't fit. I've ridden both ways and a slightly longer HT is much more stable, even if the HA is steep. This really helps keep the front end on the ground. I'd think on twisty, rocky single track, you'd want a bike that is both stable and quick.

    I love the Bizangos, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather see you get a bike that fits and still does what you want it to. I'm sure Ted will do whatever you'd like, but hopefully he'll lead the process. Just be sure to leave room for that.
    but Ted initially came up with a shorter tt than one might think. i made the HA .5 degree's steeper and the TT about .3in longer, other than that i left his numbers alone. i would have needed a longer stem, not a shorter one. my HT is approx. 5in long, longer than most 29ers for sure. Ted, his son and wife all run 130-135mm stems on their own bikes, he really likes shorter, steeper bikes than what most are riding nowadays, due to his local where such a bike works really, really well.
    your right, i do want a quick but stable bike, for me there's no other kind .
    EAST COAST
    CLYDESDALE
    DREADLOCKED
    STEEL RIDER

  33. #33
    R I D E S T E E L
    Reputation: one1spede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    646
    well, enjoy. and do post once it arrives! cheers!

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.