Okay so I'm a bit pissed........thought I had it, but not quite!

[Elonheater]

Okay this guy at the LBS (actually not quite local, but 1 hour away since it was the closest Fisher dealer), promised me a price on the Gary Fisher X-Caliber. He had promised me he'd sell it to me for $1,250.

So I was totally sold on the X-Caliber until I went up there yesterday to order it. The guy was not working that day, but the manager was there..... well to keep it short the guy told me that no way he was going to give it to me for $1,250 even though I had brought with me a written quote from the other guy for $1,250. Needless to say I was quite pissed since I drove all the way there to order it PLUS I had a written quote from the guy for $1,250.

So since I was mad and did not want to give them business I called the other Fisher dealers and one shop was sympathetic and said he'd sell it to me for $1,400 plus tax. So now I'm forced to go back to my second choice which was the GT Zaskar Elite 9r Mountain Bike - which was made exclusively for Performance Bike. It's last year's model and it was $1,999 but is on sale for $1,119.

So now I'm trying to decide between the $1,400 Fisher X-Caliber or the $1,119 GT Zaskar. The Gary Fisher in my opinion has far superior components even though the Zaskar is discounted by almost $900, but I think the GT frame is lighter. But, then again I dont think anybody has Fisher beat as far as 29ers go as far as the bang for the buck!

So guys I am going to ask you a favor.... help me decide between these two.

Gary Fisher X-Caliber ---- Shimano M525 hubs, Bontrager Duster Disc 29 rims, Bontrager XDX tires, SRAM X.9 front derailleur, SRAM X.7 rear derailleur, SRAM X.7 shifters, Shimano FC-M521 crank, Avid Juicy 3 hydraulic disc brakes, Fox F80 RL 29, 80mm travel

<a href="https://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/Elonheater32/?action=view&current=XCaliber.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/Elonheater32/XCaliber.jpg" border="0" alt="Gary Fisher X-Caliber"></a>

GT Zaskar Elite 9r Mountain Bike - U.S. Exclusive ---- Rock Shox Tora Race 29 front suspension with 100mm of travel, himano Deore 27-speed drivetrain with SLX rear derailleur and triple cranks, Avid Juicy 3, Kenda Nevegal tires combined with WTB SpeedDisc XC wheels

<a href="https://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/Elonheater32/?action=view&current=GTZaskar.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/Elonheater32/GTZaskar.jpg" border="0" alt="GT Zaskar Elite 9r"></a>

I think its totally cool that the Fisher has a Fox fork on it, but the Tora has 100mm of travel while the Fox only has 80mm..... not sure if thats something I need to consider.

[knottshore]

I am not digging too much deeper than your specs- but the Fisher looks like a better deal overall-

[richwolf]

Call the guy back that you got the quote from and make sure the grim reaper is not there, then try to close the sale. If that doesn't work, tell them you talked to your high powered attorney and he said you could take them to small claims court and win.

[richwolf]

Not sure of your size but Jenson has a 17.5 inch on sale for under $1200
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...9.aspx?sc=FRGL

[AZ]

Not sure of your size but Jenson has a 17.5 inch on sale for under $1200
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...9.aspx?sc=FRGL

No mail order sales on Fishers , in store sales only .

[richwolf]

No mail order sales on Fishers , in store sales only .

Oh my reading comprehension skills have never been my strong point!

How is this for mail order? http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...om29pro_SL.htm

[DG5]

I'm not really a Fisher fan, but that is a LOT more bike for not much more money. I would go with the fisher for sure.IMHO. good luck.

[CDtofer]

The Fisher looks like the better bike - find the second closest Fisher dealer and see if they would meet/beat either quote and give them your business.

(I would then fax a copy of the sale to the 1st shop, thats just me though)

[richwolf]

The Fisher looks like the better bike - find the second closest Fisher dealer and see if they would meet/beat either quote and give them your business.

(I would then fax a copy of the sale to the 1st shop, thats just me though)

I think on this board that would be the norm!

[Natedogz]

Call the guy back that you got the quote from and make sure the grim reaper is not there, then try to close the sale. If that doesn't work, tell them you talked to your high powered attorney and he said you could take them to small claims court and win.

X2 and it that doesn't work find the next closest GF dealer.

[jeffw-13]

When comparing price consider the lifetime warranty on the Fisher frame.

[knottshore]

When comparing price consider the lifetime warranty on the Fisher frame.

Also consider how often you may need to use it...

[cruso414]

not a big fisher fan but with those two choices, the fisher is by far the better bike.

[adman_1]

If I were you, I would leap frog the manager and send a personal email to the owner expressing how unsatisfied you are with the experience. I'm a shop sales manager myself and if one of my employees mis quoted a bike price, that's our problem not the customers. Don't get mad and don't threaten, but be constructive. Customers whom offer constructive observations of your business are the most valuable of all.

[adman_1]

P.S. Go with the Fisher.

[boomn]

I think its totally cool that the Fisher has a Fox fork on it, but the Tora has 100mm of travel while the Fox only has 80mm..... not sure if thats something I need to consider.

btw the FOX can be converted to 100mm

[moschika]

If I were you, I would leap frog the manager and send a personal email to the owner expressing how unsatisfied you are with the experience. I'm a shop sales manager myself and if one of my employees mis quoted a bike price, that's our problem not the customers. Don't get mad and don't threaten, but be constructive. Customers whom offer constructive observations of your business are the most valuable of all.

sounds like a reasonable approach, in addition to talking to the guy who gave you the quote. let them know that you were willing to drive an hour to be a customer, and not just order one online.

as which one, i'ld say the fisher too, even at $1400. collect some cans or something. other then it being a better build, it sounds like you're already "sold" on it and you'll always feel like you "settled" for the GT.

[LyNx]

I'd say go with the Fisher, components aren't that much different, Fisher actually wins by a bit. I'd also say as others, contact the sales guy who quoted you and see if he won't stick by it, if he won't talk to the owner, if that solves nothing go to the BBB with the quote. BTW A written quote is a legal contract, unless there was a "if purchased by XX date/ good for XX days" etc. on it.

[Eric Z]

If I were you, I would leap frog the manager and send a personal email to the owner expressing how unsatisfied you are with the experience. I'm a shop sales manager myself and if one of my employees mis quoted a bike price, that's our problem not the customers. Don't get mad and don't threaten, but be constructive. Customers whom offer constructive observations of your business are the most valuable of all.

good points! nothing may come out of going to the owner, but it's worth a shot- especially if you are constructive and not a jerk about it. maybe they won't give you the bike for $1250, but hopefully they can work with you. maybe could get a deal on some upgrades or something that doesn't cost the shop much.

i like the gf better as well. save up the extra cash if you want it that badly.

the lbs is in a tough spot. i agree it's something they have to deal with and caused their own issue, but hopefully the employee now knows what he can/can't promise. he made a mistake- that's it. what was the best price they would give you? was the manager apologetic?

same thing happened to me when buying a bed (i know it's a bed, but still pricey). got quoted for $800 with free frame and delivery by an employee in writing; came back the next day and the manager was there and said they would no way be able to do that price. i knew it was too good to be true. still bought the bed but was for $950 instead.

may sound bad, but your deal was too good to be true- that's over $500 under msrp.

funny when people mention getting a lawyer- hopefully they weren't serious.

good luck and keep us updated!

[A1an]

The fork alone is almost worth the extra money for the Xcaliber.

I'd still work on getting that quoted price from the original shop. Try talking to the guy who gave you the quote. As someone said before you may want to bypass the manager and get in contact with the owner.

[bcaronongan]

go with the bike you wanted. as someone else mentioned...you might regret it during very ride.

[Blatant]

Assuming it's a '10 GF, $1250 is very, very low. I don't really know bike industry markup, but I'd say it's not possible. How do you have that quote in writing? You drove an hour just to get a quote? The $1,400 price from the other shop is still a good price for that bike.

[zerocool33]

go with the Fisher and ignore the wah-wah-meow-meow-frames-crack-all-the-time people. I'm 300lbs and have a Fisher Rig with no problems. And I ride my bike just as hard as anyone else. For every 1 Fisher frame that is supposedly cracked, there is probably 100 that aren't. If you want to avoid all problems just ride steel.

[Mr. Doom]

may sound bad, but your deal was too good to be true- that's over $500 under msrp.

funny when people mention getting a lawyer- hopefully they weren't serious.

good luck and keep us updated!

True that $1589.99 is the advertised retail, you will get get a lifetime warranty on the frame and 5 year warranty on all the but-ranger parts also. Factor in the labor costs to assemble and free service and tuneups you usually get and the LBS will be lucky to break even after all is said and done.

It sucks that your buddy could not swing you that deal but remember bikes are nowhere near marked up as much as anything else in retail and when you look at all the labor that goes into pre-assembly, boxing, shipping, unpacking, final assembly, test-ride, hours with customers on the sales floor you are getting a pretty good deal even at full retail.

[Elonheater]

I did not drive an hour to get a quote. I had gone to the shop a couple weeks ago and spoke to one of their employees. That is when quoted me $1250 for the Fisher X-Caliber and wrote the price down in the cataloge that he gave me. A couple weeks later, I was ready to make the purchase so I went up there and you guys know the rest of the story!!

I think I will swallow my pride and go ahead and get the X-Caliber!!!

[richwolf]

I did not drive an hour to get a quote. I had gone to the shop a couple weeks ago and spoke to one of their employees. That is when quoted me $1250 for the Fisher X-Caliber and wrote the price down in the cataloge that he gave me. A couple weeks later, I was ready to make the purchase so I went up there and you guys know the rest of the story!!

I think I will swallow my pride and go ahead and get the X-Caliber!!!

Swallow your pride? Never! Bring Clint Eastwood, Perry Mason, Mr. T and the rest of the super heroes with you. If that doesn't work, set the place on fire.

But seriously, get the bike you want and be done with it. I hope you enjoy it. BTW see it they can adjust the travel up to 100mm for you.

[A1an]

The other option is to get Gary Fisher involved. They can get you in touch with your local rep. They may press on that shop pretty hard to get them to honor that written quote.

[DSFA]

I really hope the folks who are saying to get a lawyer are not serious. That would be a ridiculous lawsuit and waste of our court system. You would end up spending more on lawyer fees and court costs than buying the bike at a higher price. It boils down to if you don't like the price of something, go to a different place to get it.

As for a price being written down in a catalog....yes, it's a written quote but unless signed and dated by the sales guy and verbage of "we will sell you the bike at this price" type thing, well, I don't see that being very legally binding for a shop.

[Ligero]

I did not drive an hour to get a quote. I had gone to the shop a couple weeks ago and spoke to one of their employees. That is when quoted me $1250 for the Fisher X-Caliber and wrote the price down in the cataloge that he gave me. A couple weeks later, I was ready to make the purchase so I went up there and you guys know the rest of the story!!

Although it sucks you drove a hour to get to that shop it sounds like the employee just made a mistake. It sounds like he looked up the wholesale price of the bike and wrote that down instead of the retail price. Also writing a price in a catalogue is not really a quote on a bike, I seriously doubt it would hold up in court if you took it that far.

[HAL 9000]

save your money for a few more weeks till you can get the bike you really want.

[GFAthens]

I can't imagine what that guy was thinking when he quoted you that price, It'd be hard to get a price like that if the bike were last year's model.

Get the Fisher, it's a better bike. Fork and Shifters are huge difference in these two bikes. Also, Fisher 29er Geometry is good. I would also follow up with the LBS and maybe with Fisher's Customer Service too. No company would want to hear about this kind of dealer rep. Try out the Fox at 80mm, it's usually enough travel for a 29er, but if you don't like the feel, the conversion is simple

[CB2]

The other option is to get Gary Fisher involved. They can get you in touch with your local rep. They may press on that shop pretty hard to get them to honor that written quote.

That could very well be why the shop can't do anything about the price. Just like dealers can't sell certain bikes online, they can't price bikes below a certain point. Sort of a way to keep an even playing field for all their dealers.
If you want the Fisher, pay the price and see if they can show you some accessory love.

[jacques_anquetil]

yes, go with the fisher. i had one of the X-Cal's from 2008 and it was a great bike. sold it to a friend who did crack the seattube (he's a big guy) and they replaced the frame for shipping and handling only, even though it was second sale.

the fox 80mm fork is plenty for that bike. you will dig it.

[bikesdirect]

That could very well be why the shop can't do anything about the price. Just like dealers can't sell certain bikes online, they can't price bikes below a certain point. Sort of a way to keep an even playing field for all their dealers.
If you want the Fisher, pay the price and see if they can show you some accessory love.

Actually, I have never seen that.
There are restrictions on how to sell [like online, unbuilt, etc]
and many brands have a MAP price [min adverstised price]
but I do not think a brand can stop a dealer from selling a given customer a given product at any given price [including selling at under cost if desired]

[RomJan27]

The other option is to get Gary Fisher involved. They can get you in touch with your local rep. They may press on that shop pretty hard to get them to honor that written quote.

GF will not do anything if the price they quoted was below MAP price. MAP price is set by the manufacturer and they will not force anyone sell anything below MAP.

[boomn]

Actually, I have never seen that.
There are restrictions on how to sell [like online, unbuilt, etc]
and many brands have a MAP price [min adverstised price]
but I do not think a brand can stop a dealer from selling a given customer a given product at any given price [including selling at under cost if desired]

They do seem to be able to threaten with not being a dealer anymore though (not talking about GF specifically). I remember one well liked online shop was sanctioned in this way by a major manufacturer and was not able to sell their products for a while.

[BigWheeler]

It sounds like the salesman made a mistake. Probably an honest mistake, one for which he'll get in trouble with his boss over, and one that wasn't in any way meant to defraud you. It's frustrating, I'm sure, and you're right that you did nothing wrong, but remember that this guy made the mistake because he wanted to help you out.

The goal now is to make them want to make it right for you -- flies with honey and all that nonsense. Bikes have a relatively low markup, so dealers don't have as much leeway on giving you a break. Tell the salesman or manager that you totally understand about the mistake and that you know they didn't do it maliciously, and that you still want to do business with them and buy the bike. (Smile a lot, be friendly, and you're in!)

Now, ask them if they can help you out a little bit on accessories. The markup on accessories is higher, so most shops are willing to cut you a deal here. 10% with a bike purchase is normal, so see if you can't get them to go higher than that. Tell them that you really want the bike, etc., etc., and give them a list of things that you need. You might even as them to switch out the seat or grips (or some other such personal preference item) for no charge, just because now they feel indebted to you.

Really, the Fisher is the nicer bike, and as long as you play your cards right (that is, talk about how much you understand, and how much you want this bike, but...) you'll have them working hard to make you a deal. Good luck!

[Dial Tone]

Hands down, Fisher.

As stated earlier, maybe the salesperson was wrong. Maybe he was referring to an '09 model and that one has been sold and byt the time you spoke to the other guy, he's now pointing to a '10 model.

Good luck!

[canuckjgc]

That $1250 price is so unbelievably low you should have suspected something or just bought the bike right then and there, why wait a few weeks?

For $150 extra it is still a good price.

Just because someone wrote a figure in a catalogue, does not mean they are legally bound to sell it to you for that price weeks later.

[bikesdirect]

That $1250 price is so unbelievably low you should have suspected something or just bought the bike right then and there, why wait a few weeks?

.

$1250 is an OK price for an X7, Juicy 3 level AL 29er hardtail
but certainly not unbelievably low - IMHO

$700 for spec like this would be 'unbelievably low'

[Blazerwolf]

Elon, I suggested a month ago that you compare the d660 with your other choices and I guess you didn't like my suggestion and that's OK but a couple of people sneered at the Redline bikes so I thought I would compare your choices with the d660 and see how they stacked up! I know everyone thinks that sun shines on Gary Fisher, I don't know about GT Zasker, but I would put that d660 up against that Fisher rig and I would bet that a good rider could smoke that Fisher rig! I'm a little biased but it seems quite a few others on here a pretty biased as well! BTW I think the d660 is a hell of a lot better looking than either of those others! IMHO!

Gary Fisher X-Caliber MSRP $1400.00

Frameset
Sizes SM (15.5") | MD (17.5") | LG (19") | XL (21")
Frame Platinum Series 6066 butted & hydroformed aluminum, cold-forged dropouts, G2 29" Geometry
Front Shock Fox F80 RL 29, 80mm travel, custom G2 Geometry 51mm offset crown, open bath damper
Drivetrain
Shifters SRAM X.7
Front Derailleur SRAM X.9
Rear Derailleur SRAM X.7
Cassette SRAM PG950 11-34 9spd
Bottom Bracket Shimano BB ES25 Octalink
Wheels
Wheels Shimano M525 hubs, Bontrager Duster Disc 29 rims, tubeless ready, 32h
Tires Bontrager XDX 29x2.1, 120 TPI, aramid bead, tubeless ready
Components
Crank Set Shimano FC-M521 44/23/22 Octalink
Saddle Bontrager Race
Seatpost Bontrager SSR, micro adjust, 27.2
Handlebar Bontrager Race Big Sweep, 620mm width, 12d backsweep, 31.8mm
Grips Bontrager Race Lite
Stem Bontrager SSR OS
Pedals N/A
Headset 1-1/8" threadless, semi-integrated, semi-cartridge bearings
Brakeset Avid Juicy 3 hydraulic disc, 185mm front / 160mm rear rotors

GT Zaskar Elite 9r Sale Price $1119.00
Features Specs Customer Reviews
BOTTOM BRACKET: NA
BRAKES: Avid Juicy 3
CASSETTE: SRAM 11-32T
CHAIN: NA
CRANKSET: Shimano Octalink
FORK: Rock Shox Tora Race 29
FRAME: GT Hydroformed Kinesis Superlight custom tube-set
FRONT DERAILLEUR: Shimano Deore
GRIPS/TAPE: NA
HANDLEBAR: Ritchey Pro Lo Rizer butted aluminum, 31.8mm clamp
HEADSET: NA
LEVERS: NA
PEDALS: NA
REAR DERAILLEUR: Shimano Deore
REAR SHOCK: NA
SADDLE: WTB Rocket V Comp
SEATPOST: Ritchey Comp 31.6mm, 3D forged
SHIFTERS: Shimano Deore
STEM: Ritchey Pro cold forged with 6 degree rise
TIRES: 29 x 2.35" Kenda Nevegal
WHEELSET: WTB SpeedDisc XC


Redline D660 MSRP $1400.00

Sizes SM (15") | MD (17") | LG (19") | XL (21")
Frame R6 Alloy DB Forged Dropouts-Chainstay Yoke.135mm spacing
Fork Rock Shox Reba SL 100 mm
Headset Threadless 28.6mm
Frt Der N/A (31.8mm)
Rear Der SRAM X .9
Shifter SRAM X .9
Crank Truvative Stylo w Guard 34T
BB Set ISIS alloy cups 68 x 108mm
Cogs PG 950 12-32 9 sp
Pedals N/A
Rim WTB Laser Disc 32H
Hub RL SB QR DISC
Spoke 13/14 Stainless DB
Tire Maxis Ignitor 29 X 2.1
Bar Ritchey Riser Pro 31.8mm center
Stem Ritchey Pro
Saddle WTB Rocket V
Seat Post Ritchey Pro 27.2 x 400mm
Brake Avid BB 7 Disc
Brake Lever Avid FR 5

[Mr. Doom]

$1250 is an OK price for an X7, Juicy 3 level AL 29er hardtail
but certainly not unbelievably low - IMHO

$700 for spec like this would be 'unbelievably low'

Mike when are you going to give us a FOX equipped 29er for under a grand?

You have done a ton with your brand but there is huge % of the population that should stick to the LBS so they don't kill themselves by wrenching on their own rigs.

By the way, even though I wrench at a shop I have suggested your bikes to people looking for deals when we can't get something the the same $

[racerrrrx]

$1250 is an OK price for an X7, Juicy 3 level AL 29er hardtail
but certainly not unbelievably low - IMHO

$700 for spec like this would be 'unbelievably low'

SUBTLE!!!

[Minimalist]

Even if the sales guy made a mistake the shop should still honor it. If they can't sell the bike that cheap, they should suggest other ways to make good. I would take it to the owner and see what he says. If they are a shop with some ethics they will work with you, if not buy the bike somewhere else (I believe the $1,400 was from a different bike shop, wasn't it?).

[alexkraemer]

Perhaps a minor nitpick, but $1400 for a bike that still has an Octalink bottom bracket? I don't want to ignite a bottom bracket war here, but for that money I would expect more recent and up to date componentry.

[Blazerwolf]

Now here is a deal!

New Gary Fisher 2009 White Utopia 29er Lockout, Sram! $799.99

Description: For sale is New Gary Fisher 2009 White Utopia 29er! This bike is loaded with amazing Sram components and a sweet lockout fork. The 29er wheels roll fast like a road bike and the ability to run over anything x2 of a 26inch mountain bike. Not to mention that this bike is stunning in person. The tires are meant for fast rolling, but the frame can easily fit some beefier tires if you want to take this off-roading. The disc brakes make this bike an all weather stopping beast. Please feel free to ask questions.

Size 21"
Colors Pearl White

Frame Construction TIG-welded
Frame Tubing Material Gold Series Butted Aluminum
Fork Brand & Model SR Suntour SF8-NRX, 63mm travel
Fork Lockout Yes


Brakeset Avid BB 5 Mechanical brakes, Avid FR-5 levers
Shift Levers SRAM X.5
Front Derailleur Shimano Deore
Rear Derailleur SRAM X.7
Crankset Shimano M443, 26/36/48 teeth
Pedals Alloy Platform
Rear Cogs 9-speed, 11 - 32 teeth
Seatpost Bontrager Nebula Elite
Saddle Bontrager Race Lux
Handlebar Bontrager SSR
Handlebar Stem Bontrager SSR

Wheels
Hubs Shimano M-475 Disc
Rims Bontrager Ranger Disc
Tires 700 x 38c WTB Interwolf

[bikesdirect]

Mike when are you going to give us a FOX equipped 29er for under a grand?

You have done a ton with your brand but there is huge % of the population that should stick to the LBS so they don't kill themselves by wrenching on their own rigs.

By the way, even though I wrench at a shop I have suggested your bikes to people looking for deals when we can't get something the the same $

Looking into FOX now
they have great forks
but Sram has great forks too

I think either can be rather good; and BTW I think Suntour & RST are often under-rated - both make very good forks at nice price levels

[polish coyote]

Get Fisher involved? Contact the owner? You've got to be kidding right?

Sometimes employees make mistakes and quote the wrong price. **** happens. If you don't like it don't go back. If it was such good deal, why not buy it on the spot when you were quoted that price.

[adman_1]

Get Fisher involved? Contact the owner? You've got to be kidding right?

Sometimes employees make mistakes and quote the wrong price. **** happens. If you don't like it don't go back. If it was such good deal, why not buy it on the spot when you were quoted that price.

You're write **** does happen, but I also know people like to do their research before throwing down large sums of money. Bottom line is the shop can sell that bike for what ever price it wants too. They may not advertise a price below the minimum set by Trek. It doesn't stop a lot of poorly run bike shops for selling bike at pennies above cost, an attempt to gain market share. If it were my shop, I would have honored the price and made a life long customer. I'm sure the sales guy feels horrible about the mistake, I know I would. I bet he takes a closer look at the price next time. Looks like he's learned his first lesson in retail. Although Trek is concerned about how their dealers are treating customers, they also understand **** happens. Don't think they would do too much. Again, be understanding and constructive and talk with the owner. It's a hard business, I'm sure they don't want people on the internet cursing their shop. BTW, I think it was very nice of you not to use the shop name. If I were going to get a pissed off customer, I'd hope he would be kind as yourself. P.S. If I had a pissed off customer, I would want to know as well.

[Soupboy]

No brainer. Get the Fisher.

[Blazerwolf]

No brainer. Get the Fisher.

How do you figure it's a no brainer? There a lot of bikes that as good if not better than that GF rig!

My opinion it is highly overrated compared to some of the bikes that I have reviewed! I'm no expert by any means but I can certianly read and compare componets and price!

[Jukebox]

Based on the price of a rig, the employee probably read the wrong line on the price sheet and quoted you the 'good deal' price on a rig.

The fisher looks like a nicer bike either way.

[FisherXCal]

If it was such good deal, why not buy it on the spot when you were quoted that price.

If the sales person really had no authority to give a great deal like that, which it sounds like he didn't, I'm sure the error would have come to light at the checkout counter. So it may not have mattered if the bike was bought on the spot or not. But anyway while the shop doesn't have to sell the bike for just anything some sales guy mistakenly says, they should as least do something in response to the obvious and documented miscommunication. If they're not even understanding about it, then what'll happen down the road when you own the bike and need something. If shops don't go the extra mile then they lose out on loyalty and then customers will just to go to whoever quotes the lowest ball price, not who gives the best service.

[deuxdiesel]

I had an '04 Paragon, nice, but nothing special. My '09 X-Cal is so much nicer- quicker steering, better fit for me with G2. Really fun play-bike. I did pull the anchor-link BB and crank right away and replaced it, but everything else is just fine for the price.

[Borison]

"then customers will just to go to whoever quotes the lowest ball price" Is that the price they have written on their lowest hanging ball?