OK gonna start some trouble here...Fisher v. Asylum- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Law
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    OK gonna start some trouble here...Fisher v. Asylum

    Ok so there is a guy here at the school that is looking at getting a new FS bike. We were talking about Asylum v. a Fisher 292 or the new one when it comes out. Since no one here has ridden much if at all on the new Fisher FS design I won't worry about it here. But seriously, folks why should he spend $1899 for a frame when the he can get the complete 293 for just a hundred buck more or so? OR the fairly well loaded 292 for about $800 more than the Asylum. There can't be a big weight difference is there? I know that the designs are different, horst link on the Asylum v. what is effectively a single pivot design with an extra link near the shock on the fisher. I have ridden the Fisher a bit, and think it is pretty decent overall. I prefer hardtail myself but this guy likes his full suspension and wants to keep it that way.

    I found this thread in regard to Titus v. Leviathan v. Fisher

    But this guy doesn't race, he just wants a great ride and might be willing to go the extra for the asylum if there was a good amount of difference. He rides a 2005 Giant FS model I forget which one, it has about 4 inches of travel.

    So why Asylum, because if it were me, I would do a Fisher I think. It would save quite a bit of coin. He could buy a Rig and a 293 and still come out ahead of the money to build up the Asylum. (I keep pushing the SS thing on him)
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  2. #2
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    How many broken Sugars have been on this board?
    How many broken Racer X frames have been on MTBR?

    I think the performance difference of the 2 new bikes would be pretty noticeable but, the real performance difference of the bikes would show up after a few years of use. I own a 26” Racer X (Hammerhead) that I road for 3 years then turned over to my wife and she is still giving it hell, few fs bikes can stand up to that much abuse without issues.

    IMHO I’d rather ride a 26” Trance than a 29” Sugar. If your friend likes to the pedaling performance of Giant’s Maestro system he will be very disappointed in the Fisher.

    hmmm, interesting....

    The broken frame issues I am familiar with. At least it seems Fisher takes care of the customer from what I have seen. It probably is Asylum is probably bomb proof for the most part. I doubt this guy will keep any bike more than a couple of years.

    I would hate to lead to the promised land of 29ers and have him hate the experience because of the suspension design. I liked the fisher, but I haven't tried the giant, because afterall it is only a 26"er. He hasn't ridden the fisher or the asylum yet.
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  3. #3
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    How many broken Sugars have been on this board?
    How many broken Racer X frames have been on MTBR?

    I think the performance difference of the 2 new bikes would be pretty noticeable but, the real performance difference of the bikes would show up after a few years of use. I own a 26” Racer X (Hammerhead) that I road for 3 years then turned over to my wife and she is still giving it hell, few fs bikes can stand up to that much abuse without issues.

    IMHO I’d rather ride a 26” Trance than a 29” Sugar. If your friend likes to the pedaling performance of Giant’s Maestro system he will be very disappointed in the Fisher.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    Ok so there is a guy here at the school that is looking at getting a new FS bike. We were talking about Asylum v. a Fisher 292... But seriously, folks why should he spend $1899 for a frame when the he can get the complete 293 for just a hundred buck more or so? He could buy a Rig and a 293 and still come out ahead of the money to build up the Asylum. (I keep pushing the SS thing on him)
    Sounds like to me that he will need two bikes if he gets a 293, so he'll have something to ride if/when his frame cracks.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law

    I doubt this guy will keep any bike more than a couple of years.
    If that's the case, then I'd also be looking at resale value, which I think would be much better on the Asylum. I don't want to be mean, but aren't 292/293's, 29ers version of the Edsel ?
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  6. #6
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    I don't want to be mean, but aren't 292/293's, 29ers version of the Edsel ?
    Ouch, that is kinda funny though. All single pivots were supposed to die out years ago right? yet they are still around....

    I take it that the vote tally stands at 2 votes (Endomaniac and 1-track-mind) for the Asylum and 0 for the Fisher.
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  7. #7
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    Why not a Fisher 292/293? Simple: they break a lot. I have broken two front frames and a swingarm.

    First front frame lasted 18 months and broke in the same shock plate/TT spot that most of them seem to fail at. The "new and improved version" (installed May '05) broke after 9 months. The latest attempt at fixing the TT problem came out recently. Possibly this latest version will last a reasonable while.

    The swingarm broke in the driveside dropout, no crunching of the carbon fiber seatstays with rocks was involved. The dropout is only 4mm thick at the point that it broke. Hmm..., possible stress riser?

    Sure I'm 215# and 6'3" but this is an XL frame, shouldn't Fisher have built this frame for a guy even bigger than myself? I'm an XC rider with 20+ years trailriding, so I'm fairly smooth. Very rarely do any drops. The biggest drop my bike sees is 18-24" and that is super rare.

    I'm a guy that likes to do very long loops out in the back country. I have almost no confidence anymore that I can depend on these frame components to get me back out of the woods. When the swingarm broke I had an 11 mile walk to get back to Downieville. I'm really glad that I started that ride early in the day.

    You get what you pay for. Sure, Fisher will keep sending you new frame components, but do you enjoy the downtime? Fisher took two months to come up with a new swingarm, if my LBS had not come thru with a loaner swingarm I'd have missed a big chunk of last year's prime riding season.

    29erchico

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29erchico
    Why not a Fisher 292/293? Simple: they break a lot. I have broken two front frames and a swingarm.

    First front frame lasted 18 months and broke in the same shock plate/TT spot that most of them seem to fail at. The "new and improved version" (installed May '05) broke after 9 months. The latest attempt at fixing the TT problem came out recently. Possibly this latest version will last a reasonable while.

    The swingarm broke in the driveside dropout, no crunching of the carbon fiber seatstays with rocks was involved. The dropout is only 4mm thick at the point that it broke. Hmm..., possible stress riser?

    Sure I'm 215# and 6'3" but this is an XL frame, shouldn't Fisher have built this frame for a guy even bigger than myself? I'm an XC rider with 20+ years trailriding, so I'm fairly smooth. Very rarely do any drops. The biggest drop my bike sees is 18-24" and that is super rare.

    I'm a guy that likes to do very long loops out in the back country. I have almost no confidence anymore that I can depend on these frame components to get me back out of the woods. When the swingarm broke I had an 11 mile walk to get back to Downieville. I'm really glad that I started that ride early in the day.

    You get what you pay for. Sure, Fisher will keep sending you new frame components, but do you enjoy the downtime? Fisher took two months to come up with a new swingarm, if my LBS had not come thru with a loaner swingarm I'd have missed a big chunk of last year's prime riding season.

    29erchico
    I don't want to bash,GF, but everyone talks about how great they are about replacing frames, but few mention the inconvience and lack of confidence issues. There's enough excitement in mountain biking for me without playing Russian Roulette with my bike choice.
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  9. #9
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    Sounds like the guy needs a sugar.

    For what it sounds like his purposes are, the Asylum would be too much of a race bike for him.

  10. #10
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    I don't want to bash,GF, but everyone talks about how great they are about replacing frames, but few mention the inconvience and lack of confidence issues. There's enough excitement in mountain biking for me without playing Russian Roulette with my bike choice.

    Quit it now, you want to bash fisher and you know it. You've posted 3 times already!

    I appreciate you opinion though, it is very true that no one wants to be without a bike. Maybe you guys are right....no one is sticking up for Fisher at all!!
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  11. #11
    AOK
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    My experience has been that "boutique" bikes just ride better. The boutique frames are generally A LOT stiffer and better handling. For me, that justifies the price.

    There was nothing really wrong with the Kona and Giants I owned over the years, but they are not even in the same league as bikes I have owned from Turner, Ventana, Moots, and Titus.

    I'm sure the Fisher will get the job done (broken frames aside.. ), but if your friend has the $$$ and is willing to spend it on a bike, he will probably be happier with the Asylum.

  12. #12
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK
    My experience has been that "boutique" bikes just ride better. The boutique frames are generally A LOT stiffer and better handling. For me, that justifies the price.

    There was nothing really wrong with the Kona and Giants I owned over the years, but they are not even in the same league as bikes I have owned from Turner, Ventana, Moots, and Titus.

    I'm sure the Fisher will get the job done (broken frames aside.. ), but if your friend has the $$$ and is willing to spend it on a bike, he will probably be happier with the Asylum.
    Asylum -- 4 votes

    Fisher -- 1 vote

    It is just that I didn't really consider it a true boutique frame. Aren't they made in Asia or am I mistaken? I know that Titus fabricated them, but for some reason I thought that they were made overseas. Anyway, I am still surprised by the one-sidedness here. Anyway, I will tell him to check out this thread. You guys make good arguments.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    Maybe you guys are right....no one is sticking up for Fisher at all!!
    How many broken frames of the 2006 Sugar 292/293's have been reported on this board compared to prior model years? We all know of prior model years having issues due to the welds, but what about the 2006 frames?

    That being said, I ride a 2004 Sugar 293, have weighed between 212 pounds and my current 182 pounds riding normal XC conditions and racing on an XL size and the frame (knock on aluminum) has been a champ. How aggressively does your friend ride?

    It's pretty hard to beat the price of the 293 for the components and stock version in terms of a FS.

    BB

  14. #14
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    Good job!

    Fisher is a good choice. There seems to be a few that don't think so but there are thousands of very satisfied owners of Fisher Sugar 29ers (most of which don't waste their time here). The Fisher is a great ride IMO.

  15. #15
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown

    How aggressively does your friend ride?

    It's pretty hard to beat the price of the 293 for the components and stock version in terms of a FS.

    BB

    Oh, hard to say, he doesn't race mountain bikes or anthing. He is probably sub 200 lbs, maybe 180-190 I would guess. The trails aren't nuts or anything, no big drops. Climbing is important, and probably stability at speed on downhills that aren't exactly flat either. I would say that he is hard on stuff. He just wants something that rides really well. The Giant Trance he has only ran about $1500 and he is used to a bike in the upper 20lbs area I would guess.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    Asylum -- 4 votes

    Fisher -- 1 vote

    It is just that I didn't really consider it a true boutique frame. Aren't they made in Asia or am I mistaken? I know that Titus fabricated them, but for some reason I thought that they were made overseas. Anyway, I am still surprised by the one-sidedness here. Anyway, I will tell him to check out this thread. You guys make good arguments.
    What's the MSRP on the Asylum? $1899. Is his size in stock at Speedgoat?

    At that price, why is your friend also not considering the Leviathan frame? It retails for $1675.

    Best thing to do is to simply share the prices with your friend. Full bike at $1900 - 2000 for the Sugar 293, or frame only for the Asylum at $1899 and $1675 for the Leviathan frame. Being realistic for fork, brakes, wheelset and all other components - the full build of both of these frames = easily $2500 - $3300+.

    Money talks, no matter what the votes say....

    BB

  17. #17
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    I wouldn’t say the Sugar is a bad bike at all. The Sugar hits a great balance of a cost to performance ratio. I just don’t think it’s in the same league regarding construction quality or performance as the Titus bike that likely cost twice as much. If someone is not accustomed to 29ers and is only planning on riding the bike a season the Sugar is probably the way to go.

    Law, change my Vote to Sugar for this guy.

    Their certainly are a lot of rumors as to where the Asylums are actually made. If they are still made with the same materials, design, spec and Q.C., I’m not sure how much difference it makes regarding product quality.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    If someone is not accustomed to 29ers and is only planning on riding the bike a season the Sugar is probably the way to go.
    Dang Endo, where did I go wrong? I was accustomed to 29ers thanks to a full year on a Monkey riding a miminum of 5x per week before I got a Sugar. This summer will mark 2 full years riding the Sugar.

    Sure glad I didn't know it was only designed to be ridden 1 season.

    BB

  19. #19
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    What's the MSRP on the Asylum? $1899. Is his size in stock at Speedgoat?

    At that price, why is your friend also not considering the Leviathan frame? It retails for $1675.

    Best thing to do is to simply share the prices with your friend. Full bike at $1900 - 2000 for the Sugar 293, or frame only for the Asylum at $1899 and $1675 for the Leviathan frame. Being realistic for fork, brakes, wheelset and all other components - the full build of both of these frames = easily $2500 - $3300+.

    Money talks, no matter what the votes say....

    BB
    There is no reason, it is just what he was looking at. I have no experience with Lenzsport other than meeting him back in like '97 or '98 when he was at his first Interbike and maybe at a Norba race or two back then I forget which. He is a great guy.

    He just wants a great bike, and I couldn't tell him why the Asylum was so much more, or if it was worth it.

    Aside from perhaps a lack of breakage, what else makes it worth it to go with the Asylum? is there a weight advantage? It seems like the folks are saying that the titus rear end would climb better (from the reference to being better for racing), but decending?
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  20. #20

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    Hey Guys,

    I have been researching the 29er options out there in FS and it is very limited at current. Lenz, Ventana (I am drooling!), Titus, Asylum, Dos Niner (softy) and of course Fisher. Bottom line is that you are looking at 3200-3500 minimum for a geared disc brake version with the exception being the 292/293 option of course. You can't touch the El Cap for under 4 large. I have a daughter and a college fund.

    Figure at least 1600 or more for the frame, XT build kit runs 1200+ for a 26 setup (surely 29er setup kicks the cost up several hundred), and 350+ for the fork. It adds up pretty quick and if you are like me you probably know that a head set is pretty important but don't have a clue how to go about shopping for one or installing it. Ever tried to bleed your hydraulic brakes? I found it challenging. Bottom line is that I don't have the time or the knowledge to build a bike.

    So then you have the GF 293 which I can go pick up at one of several LBS in Dallas on my way to the trail for half the price of the other options. If (when) I break something, I go back to my LBS, probably get a loaner piece from one of the many 293s on the floor, and go ride some more.

    Easy choice I think.

    Now if you are looking at rigid SS rigs (no pun), there is some real competition out there at affordable prices.

  21. #21
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    All frames break eventually and like the guy before said there are way more GF 292/293 out there and of course you will here more about it breaking.
    I ride a 293 and love the ride, for the price of that frame, you could buy a bike.
    you can call the other frame art or whatever and it is, but for that price hang it on the wall and get a bike to ride not something to brag about.
    Just my two cents worth

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Dang Endo, where did I go wrong? I was accustomed to 29ers thanks to a full year on a Monkey riding a miminum of 5x per week before I got a Sugar. This summer will mark 2 full years riding the Sugar.

    Sure glad I didn't know it was only designed to be ridden 1 season.

    BB
    Sorry Bruce, I didn’t mean that in a negative way, it just doesn’t make sense to me to drop four grand on a 29er if you have never ridden one before. Believe it or not some folks get 29ers and wind up not liking them. Also, Law indicated in another post that the guy may not be going into this frame with a long term commitment. I didn’t mean to imply the Sugar was a disposable commodity. I know some locals around me that have 5 year old 26” Sugar’s and are very happy with them. I apologize if my post wasn’t clear.

  23. #23
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    Buy a Paragon,

    and order an Asylum at the same time. Then He'll have something to ride while he waits for the FS frame. As soon as it arrives he can use the parts pkg. for a pretty nice build. Then he can scrounge for parts an build up the paragon frame as a SS. Just a thought.

  24. #24
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    Calculated risk

    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    Fisher is a good choice. There seems to be a few that don't think so but there are thousands of very satisfied owners of Fisher Sugar 29ers (most of which don't waste their time here). The Fisher is a great ride IMO.

    Over a year ago I sold my “boutique” bikes to purchase my first 29’er FS bike. At the time there were only a few choices. Titus /Asylum, Lenz or Fisher. It takes time for me to purchase most things because I analyze everything to death . After consulting with my LBS this board etc……my choice became clear. Fisher.

    Why?

    The Fisher had more travel at half the price. Sorry but $1,700 for a 4 bar 3” frame no thanks.

    I could see the 29’er market growing and knew there would be more choices in the future. As far as resale value the Fisher frame will not hold its value but neither will the current “boutique” bikes once Intense and Turner introduce their new frames.

  25. #25
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    this is very interesting

    I think this guy really can't go wrong.

    I doubt that thee 292 is the "edsel" of the 29er world...I thought it wasn't bad.

    If he ends up with a kicka$$ asylum or lenz or whatever than great. If he saves a COUPLE THOUSAND dollars and buys a 292 he still has a pretty great bike and can pay off his truck early, or buy a Niner or Wily SS or go to Moab for 2 weeks and still have money in the bank...(you know what I am saying) .

    $$$$ makes a big difference.

    and for all the problems that 29er chico has had, what do you really think the failure rate of 292's are. I mean I mean they have made thousands of them...and some of them broke.

    We just had a post earlier where someone talked about a moots breaking...a freakin' titanium moots...at the head tube. Bikes break sometimes. I have to believe that the amount of engineering that go into a mass produced bike is pretty immense. (I have met some of those nerds...whew...those are some smart dudes). But sometimes things break.

    I'll bet when one of the boutique bikes break it is pretty great because they actually are able to talk to someone at the factory who they talked to when they originally purchased the bike...it is like calling an old friend. But when a mass produced bike breaks, you drop by the shop, they all take a look at it...maybe someone has a bad attitude...maybe not...But they probably have to call the Rep....maybe he is on his way in this afternoon...maybe he is on vacation...maybe there are new bikes in stock...maybe they aren't making any more in that size for 3 more weeks...maybe you get to pick out what color you want right now and you will see the new one in a couple days.

    You know I *****ed when my fisher hardtail cracked too...but I had a bit of an epiphany when the new frame showed up...

    ...We are mostly between 175 and 250 lbs and we ride 25-30 pound bikes over rocks and roots and drops and logs and up and down drainage ditches and most of us ride thousand of miles a year AS FAST AS WE CAN and sometimes they break.

    sorry...I didn't start this as a rant
    Don't get stuck on stupid!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    Asylum -- 4 votes

    Fisher -- 1 vote

    It is just that I didn't really consider it a true boutique frame. Aren't they made in Asia or am I mistaken? I know that Titus fabricated them, but for some reason I thought that they were made overseas. Anyway, I am still surprised by the one-sidedness here. Anyway, I will tell him to check out this thread. You guys make good arguments.
    Asylum's are made in the USA. A quote from a letter sent to me from Speedgoat last year:

    "Why the delay? As most of you know, Asylum was born of a partnership between the 29er fanatics at Speedgoat Bicycles and Titus Cycles in Tempe, Arizona, and Titus currently oversees fabrication of all Asylum frames. Titus is undergoing serious system revamping, and several larger projects, including Asylum, are now being reorganized. Asylum frames will continue to be manufactured in the United States. This is something we feel strongly about--though not for the reasons you may suspect. The welding coming out of Taiwan right now is outstanding. The problem, particularly for a small company like Asylum, is communication. Keeping our production stateside means that once we begin production, we should not experience any of the crushing year-long communication delays inherent to doing business overseas. In short, keeping production in the U.S. means better oversight and more control, and anyone who's ridden our bikes knows we're total control freaks."

    The delay they're referring to has been over the last few months (the letter is from Sept.). They are expecting their '06 stock to be in by the end of this month.

    Discloser: I don't work for Speedgoat or Titus but have had an Asylum on order since last August. Not sure I'm willing to wait any longer though.

    I'll put in my vote for the Fisher on price (as I haven't ridden either ).

    Cheers!
    -Ian

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    Fisher is a good choice. There seems to be a few that don't think so but there are thousands of very satisfied owners of Fisher Sugar 29ers (most of which don't waste their time here). The Fisher is a great ride IMO.
    Agreed.

    My 2005 293, which cost me $1300 including tax brand new (gotta love end of the year closeouts), rides great. And for those who think the sugar doesn't climb well, they obviously haven't ridden one. My sugar has less bob with a simple Fox Float R than any of my fs 26" bikes, 2 of which are horst link and have platform shocks. The beauty of the pivotless carbon rear stays is that they serve as a built-in platform, since the carbon has to flex for the swingarm to move.

    The parts build on the 293 is also very good, better than most comparably prices 26" bikes. Other than swapping out the stem and saddle, and playing with some tire options, I haven't changed anything.

    For the money, you just can't beat it.

  28. #28
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    Thumbs up on '06 293

    I have not ridden an Asylum, but my '06 293 is a sweet ride. The shock mount under the top tube is way beefy. If the '06 changes do not fix the frame breakage issues, nothing will.

    I continue to be amazed at the basic 29er goodness in the bike. Traction is vastly improved in all situations compared to my recent 26ers. The suspension design is a good one, but was never copied by anyone and never a big commercial success. It is not like a URT design, for example, which everyone seems to have agreed is a design with a lot of disadvantages, at best.
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  29. #29
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    The comment about Racer-X's not breaking is just flat-out wrong. I've seen them destroyed by local racers. One semi-pro sheared his in half when he hit a tree during a race. Both the 29x and Racer-X/Asylum are lightweight frames which are not going to be terribly crash-worthy. Crash a 29x and Fisher might take 2 months to get you a replacement. Crash an Asylum, and Speedgoat may have to wait until their next production run to get you a replacement, and how long could that take? The net on crash-replacement is about the same.

    Having said that, I'd wait for the new Fisher race day. Good price (complete bike for $300 more than an Asylum frame?), no chain-suck issues, and no carbon-fiber chainstays.

  30. #30
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    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by sirkrameroy
    Agreed.

    My 2005 293, which cost me $1300 including tax brand new (gotta love end of the year closeouts), rides great. And for those who think the sugar doesn't climb well, they obviously haven't ridden one. My sugar has less bob with a simple Fox Float R than any of my fs 26" bikes, 2 of which are horst link and have platform shocks. The beauty of the pivotless carbon rear stays is that they serve as a built-in platform, since the carbon has to flex for the swingarm to move.

    The parts build on the 293 is also very good, better than most comparably prices 26" bikes. Other than swapping out the stem and saddle, and playing with some tire options, I haven't changed anything.

    For the money, you just can't beat it.
    "My sugar has less bob with a simple Fox Float R than any of my fs 26" bikes, 2 of which are horst link and have platform shocks."

    Just an FYI the 05 Fox shock has Pro Pedal. Got'a love it!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    Sorry Bruce, I didn’t mean that in a negative way, it just doesn’t make sense to me to drop four grand on a 29er if you have never ridden one before. Believe it or not some folks get 29ers and wind up not liking them. Also, Law indicated in another post that the guy may not be going into this frame with a long term commitment. I didn’t mean to imply the Sugar was a disposable commodity. I know some locals around me that have 5 year old 26” Sugar’s and are very happy with them. I apologize if my post wasn’t clear.
    No problem. If this "guy" that Law knows is a college student - I think our "financial" suggestions of a bike around $1800 - $2000 over whether or not he can put up the $4K spend for a bike is wise advice. Unless he is flush with parental support and they are okay with such a purchase.

    Realistically though, I am expecting my 2004 Sugar 293's frame to wear out at some point in time. And, in the greater scheme of life, it will be no big deal. I will replace with another product which will be determined on what is available at the time. But I didn't buy the frame from Nate with the expectation of only getting one season out of it. And luckily, my expectations have been correct as I approach the end of year 2 of riding about 44-48 weeks out of the year on it.

    BB

  32. #32
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbogner
    The comment about Racer-X's not breaking is just flat-out wrong.

    I've seen them destroyed by local racers. One semi-pro sheared his in half when he hit a tree during a race.

    Both the 29x and Racer-X/Asylum are lightweight frames which are not going to be terribly crash-worthy.
    I'd love to see pictures and a full description of what happened.

    Personally, in all my time of being a Titus fan (since Y2K or so), I've not even HEARD OF a RX breaking. I remember they went through a phase where the Loco Moto's where breaking a lot, but they identified thier co-manufacturing partner Annodizing Inc. as having a flaw, which they corrected. But I've NEVER heard of any breakage on a RX, ever. Until now, and it sounds like you said they guy hit a tree during a crash?? I suppose if you hit a tree hard enough going fast enough, or maybe drove a bike into a garage while attached to your roof rack, maybe you could get one to break.

    None the less, I would love to see pictures and a full accounting of what actually happened.

    re: Asylum manufacturing - I beleive they are being made by Annodizing Inc in the USA, which has a fairly good reputation. I beleive they also make the Ibis Ripley/aka Castellano Fango. Speaking of which, when is going to release the Fango 29? I'm ready to place my pre-order.

    on-topic: The Sugar is a great bike, just recommend you are the original owner to preserve the frame warranty.....Bruce, you're the man for not having broken that 293 yet...

  33. #33
    jrm
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    i was drawn to the 293

    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    Fisher is a good choice. There seems to be a few that don't think so but there are thousands of very satisfied owners of Fisher Sugar 29ers (most of which don't waste their time here). The Fisher is a great ride IMO.
    because of the price. Ive only got about 4 rides on it but its real comfortable and i like the geometry and parts that ive ended up with given the swaping of parts and such. My gripe if there needs to be one is thats its spec'd with a 28 H wheelset. I figure im going to ride the crap out of it and if it breaks i get it warrentied. But im not going to worry about..

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01



    re: Asylum manufacturing - I beleive they are being made by Annodizing Inc in the USA,
    Then why can you only get one powdercoated?

  35. #35
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisty


    Then why can you only get one powdercoated?
    no idea...heck man, it's the internet, i just make sh!t up as I go along and pass it off as actual knowledge!! I thought everyone did that...!!!....???... My official answer is that Annodizing Inc probably WELDS the frames, and they either offer the powerdercoating themselves, or they go to a 3rd (4th) party for the ho-hum powerdercoating.

    I think thier move to powdercoat ONLY, and ONLY in GREY or BLACK was a bad move. Choices are boring or bland for colors. I know some people like the stealth look, and I can dig on that, but seriously, if they would have offered Titus's Anno GOLD finish, I'd have one either in the garage or on order...

    This was my first RX, and you can get a sense of how nice that finish was:

    <img border=2 src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/782106824-Pictures511.jpg">

    <img border=2 src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/9108831044-Pictures527.jpg">

    <img border=2 src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/1098683105-Pictures544.jpg">

    <img border=2 src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/687015109-GOLDRX.jpg">

  36. #36
    Is it play time yet?
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    FWIW, I've been riding/racing a GF 292 since May 2005. I'm 6'5", 195lbs. No frame or other structural issues to date.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark67

    If he ends up with a kicka$$ asylum or lenz or whatever than great. If he saves a COUPLE THOUSAND dollars and buys a 292 he still has a pretty great bike and can pay off his truck early, or buy a Niner or Wily SS or go to Moab for 2 weeks and still have money in the bank...(you know what I am saying) .
    I agree. I look at this as the difference between a WRX and like...hmmm...say an Audi S4. Both AWD, have turbos, very capable vehicles. You can buy a WRX for $25K or the S4 for $40K. Which one would I want to race? The S4. Which one would I buy if I wanted to race but was on a budget 30K budget? The WRX. I could spend a little money on the wrx to make it tighter, stiffer, etc. Same goes for the 293...spend a little to upgrade the parts needed and put the rest into your Schwab account to buy more google stock *doh!

    The 292/293 isn't nearly as stiff as the Asylum/Racer X in the rear. It is more plush, has more travel, and would be my pick if this guy doesn't race it every weekend. There are probably thousands of 29" sugars out there and maybe 50-100 titus/asylums? So factor in a 1% - heck even 5 % breakage rate and then you'll see why we see more Fishers on here.

  38. #38
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    .
    For the record, I summarily agree with anything and everything 2melow says. Period.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    For the record, I summarily agree with anything and everything 2melow says. Period.
    Me too.

    Except the part about getting an S4 for only $40K! Hah! Try more like $50K plus (unless you're shopping used of course!).

    OK, back on topic.

    -Ian

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    no idea...heck man, it's the internet, i just make sh!t up as I go along and pass it off as actual knowledge!! I thought everyone did that...!!!....???...
    I think thier move to powdercoat ONLY, and ONLY in GREY or BLACK was a bad move. Choices are boring or bland for colors.
    Umm....have you checked the available color options lately there Nate?

    They offer it in BLUE as well.

    Cheers!
    -Ian

  41. #41
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    I have seen many Fishers break. No Titus's. Get an Asylum.

  42. #42
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneskiian
    Umm....have you checked the available color options lately there Nate?

    They offer it in BLUE as well.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
    ha.ha.ha.a..man, I told ya, I don't check facts or mess with reality when runnin' my mouth on the net...I just talk like I know everything, toss out random "facts" like candy...

  43. #43
    Law
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    pretty sure he is going with the fisher. It is much easier to get ahold of and cheaper and he has never broken a frame in his life so, I guess he is not worried. Thanks everyone!
    my builder: Neil at Cernitz Bike

  44. #44
    This place needs an enema
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark67
    We just had a post earlier where someone talked about a moots breaking...a freakin' titanium moots...at the head tube. Bikes break sometimes.
    Chris-

    You make a great point but I thought I'd remind you (and all whom are reading) that the Moots in question was over 10 years old and had been ridden as a daily driver/training bike/race bike all rolled into one. That's quite a difference from the Sugar's that have broken in a few months time.

    MC

  45. #45
    Don't be a sheep
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    I agree. I look at this as the difference between a WRX and like...hmmm...say an Audi S4. Both AWD, have turbos, very capable vehicles. You can buy a WRX for $25K or the S4 for $40K. Which one would I want to race? The S4. Which one would I buy if I wanted to race but was on a budget 30K budget? The WRX. I could spend a little money on the wrx to make it tighter, stiffer, etc. Same goes for the 293...spend a little to upgrade the parts needed and put the rest into your Schwab account to buy more google stock *doh!

    The 292/293 isn't nearly as stiff as the Asylum/Racer X in the rear. It is more plush, has more travel, and would be my pick if this guy doesn't race it every weekend. There are probably thousands of 29" sugars out there and maybe 50-100 titus/asylums? So factor in a 1% - heck even 5 % breakage rate and then you'll see why we see more Fishers on here.
    Actually S4's are mediocre track cars at best. At a curb weight approaching 2 tons they are more of an interstate Luxo-cruiser. A Suburu WRX STi (600 lbs lighter) would eat one for lunch on a track at $20,000 less.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  46. #46
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Actually S4's are mediocre track cars at best. At a curb weight approaching 2 tons they are more of an interstate Luxo-cruiser. A Suburu WRX STi (600 lbs lighter) would eat one for lunch on a track at $20,000 less.

    true. I have driven both. I worked at a Subaru dealership several years ago, and the STI would kick the older version S4's butt. Don't know about the newest one. The S4 is nicer to drive in daily life because of comfort and amenities.
    my builder: Neil at Cernitz Bike

  47. #47
    Always Learning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    pretty sure he is going with the fisher. It is much easier to get ahold of and cheaper and he has never broken a frame in his life so, I guess he is not worried. Thanks everyone!
    Ah....money talks. And the availabilty issue speaks.

    Tell your "guy" all the best with his new ride. He should really enjoy it.

    BB

  48. #48
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    Did Fisher change the carbon stays at some point during the decade? It seems that the newer ones dont appear as stocky as the earlier ones. Ive beat the piss outta my 02 Sugar and the stays were so beat up that I had to use epoxy fill in the stays when I just did a complete refinish/rebuild.

    [/URL]

  49. #49
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    Zen 9...

    Another tact might be to build up an inexpensive ride in the short term and consider the zen 9 in late spring.

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