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  1. #1
    typer1
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    Nuke proof

    Hi All 29ers' Bros,

    Any feedback on ths fork?thinking of mounting it on my KM.Many thanks in advance.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nuke proof-nuke-proof.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Is that the right fork? Nuke Proof makes a 29er version, but that looks like the 26" version.
    26" http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=38424
    29" http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=33927

  3. #3
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    nuke proof

    Hi Alex,

    I was looking at the 29ers' fork,i guess the only one with the canti boss n disc for our 29s'.

  4. #4
    the mountian is within
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    Origin 8 has the 29er size with brake bosses-removable as well. Prob. same fork.
    Bz
    i own a bikeshop in WV thetruewheelwv.com

  5. #5
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    fork

    29Buzz,

    Many thanks for the advices,will look for for org8,anyway same factory perhaps.
    Cheers.

  6. #6
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    Just make sure you keep an eye on the A-C measurement, so you don't end up with a fork throwing your geometry way off.

  7. #7
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    I have no experience with this fork, but plenty with the company.

    From my experiences with their hubs I would not use another of their products ever, even for free.

    Their hubs look and ride like cheap copycats reverse engineered by morons.

    They look the part, but are made badly with cheap metal, I blew 3 hubs in weeks.

    Worst customer support ever, rude liars who made up bull **** excuses for the faliures.

    There are many makers of carbon forks out there, get one from a company that tests products before they release to market.

    Any sale I can lose Nukeproof is a win by me.

    Niner makes a good carbon fork

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I have no experience with this fork, but plenty with the company.

    From my experiences with their hubs I would not use another of their products ever, even for free.

    Their hubs look and ride like cheap copycats reverse engineered by morons.

    They look the part, but are made badly with cheap metal, I blew 3 hubs in weeks.

    Worst customer support ever, rude liars who made up bull **** excuses for the faliures.

    There are many makers of carbon forks out there, get one from a company that tests products before they release to market.

    Any sale I can lose Nukeproof is a win by me.

    Niner makes a good carbon fork
    not at all the same company anymore, probably a good thing. They went out of business ~10 yrs ago, someone else acquired the name.


  9. #9
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    I know,

    This is the new company I am pissed with.

    I bought products expecting quality of the old make, didn't get it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I know,

    This is the new company I am pissed with.

    I bought products expecting quality of the old make, didn't get it.
    CaveGiant.

    I am overseeing design of new Nukeproof products (though the hubs existed before I came to the company).

    Always interested to hear feedback. If you want to drop me a line - [email protected]

    I've been running the hubs on my bike for a year or so with no drama, though it's not a low geared 29er (a known case that gives more torque, hence Shimano's 29er hubset).

  11. #11
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    I have had some problems with a nuke proof generator rear hub, it would either skip or turn the bike into a fixie. I thought that when i would open it up i'd definitely find something broken inside.

    I think i even posted about it around here, i was pretty bummed out that it kinda messed up a long weekend group ride. I got the same kind of pissed off replies from quite a few people, including Cave giant iirc.

    Turns out nothing was broken, although some of the skipping under hard torque managed to partly file down some of the engagement points. The only problem was that the pawls were getting trapped in a very thick gunk made out of the original grease and dust from the trail, and remained either closed or fully open. Washed everything out and oiled with a very thin lubricant, it now seems to work fine, although i didn't get a chance to test it since i had already bought a set of kings.

    I'll prolly use the wheel on a new ss build next week, so i'll report back. I am very happy with the new sound though, i saw a vid on youtube comparing loudness and the order was king < hope < nuke proof. My hub now is a LOT louder than the factory greased nuke prrof from that vid, so you can imagine it beats the hope by quite a lot more than it did before.

  12. #12
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    looks just like my Origin 8 fork. I've been running it on my KM for almost 2 years. Really like it. Much more forgiving ride than the stock fork, and more than 1/2 pound lighter.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I know,

    This is the new company I am pissed with.

    I bought products expecting quality of the old make, didn't get it.
    sorry, didn't realize that!


  14. #14
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    One of the NukeProof guys has been having a chat since about 5pm!

    I will feed back anything critical.

  15. #15
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    I had a nice long chat with the guy, wishfully thinking that my feedback might be used to fix the flaws on this hub.

    Turns out in fact all this time I was wrong, the hub is perfect, I am just a fat bastard!!!

    Sly3 you are obviously incorrect, apparently these hubs don't have issues, so you are therefore incorrect.

    For the best quote/paraphrase

    "It is a shame about you not grassing up the customer service guy, that needs fixing more than the hub"

    Sorry, the fact that the product fails and could cause serious injury is not as important as a guy to say 'sorry' afterwards. You have to be kidding me.

    I then nicely explained that it is important to have both a good product AND customer service.

    first line of response

    "I can understand how it would seem that way to you"

    FFS where do they get these people.


    So for the record, from my continued experience in addition to making **** products, they don't care if the customer service is correct.

    Although a rather harsh opinion, the sooner this company goes under the better.
    Misrepresenting products for a quick buck is immoral.

    Have to admit, the logo is cool though.

  16. #16
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    This is important info so BUMP

  17. #17
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    CaveGiant.

    Indeed, I (for it is I you were talking to) do take customer service very seriously, and am still very puzzled as to why you will not "name names" of the specific members of staff at Hotlines who you had issues with.

    But not - you replied:-
    I am afraid I conveniently forget info that will get someone in trouble, sorry.
    I asked, quite specifically
    It would be great to use your experiences with NukeProof hubs to make a tougher product, which we could either sell alongside our standard model, or incorporate into it.
    and finally I closed with:-
    However, I hear few problems about Nukeproof hubs - probably because not many of our riders are 6'7" 217lb 29er FS riders.

    I hear things about Hotlines QC sometimes too.

    I am actually resonably unfamiliar with the Nukeproof hub internals, but we're always looking at improving product, and we'll discuss a tougher version with the factory when we're next over there.
    I don't consider that a 6'7" 217lb 29in FS rider is a typical rider to baseline your component durability on. I would fully expect such a rider to of course have more issues with a whole host of components.

    I am extremely excited to work with our factory on a tougher version of our rear hub which we'll be discussing with them over the next few months.

    You seem to have a real vendetta against us, which puzzles me a little, and your very overtly aggressive attitude could well cause some customer service staff to become rather agitated.

    I wish you well with your non-Nukeproof equipped bike, and happy riding.

  18. #18
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    ps: bump. Where's that great pic of your niner with the plastic bag fork protectors on.

  19. #19
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    in case i need to replace that cassette, which other hubs use this same body?


  20. #20
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    217 is not very heavy. There are very few mountain bike products I sell that would not withstand a rider that size. Even American Classic rates their light wheels to 240 lbs.

    I am disappointed that the company rep would respond in this way. I actually recommended a product last night that was designed by Brant, but this makes me question things. It is really irritating when a customer has a bad experience like this, and the manufacturer is rude to him.

    Cave Giant, I recommend the guys at Hope, I9, Chris King or Hadley for you hub needs. They care about their customers and reputations.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusSommers
    I actually recommended a product last night that was designed by Brant, but this makes me question things. It is really irritating when a customer has a bad experience like this, and the manufacturer is rude to him.
    How am I being rude to him?

    To reiterate (and I am going to have to stop work soon as it's my sons 11th birthday today, and it's 18:50pm in the evening)...

    1) I asked "cavegiant" if he could let me know which specific members of Hotlines staff he'd had issues with so I could discuss with them.
    2) I've said I'm going to look at a tougher version in the next few months.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusSommers
    217 is not very heavy. There are very few mountain bike products I sell that would not withstand a rider that size. Even American Classic rates their light wheels to 240 lbs.
    217 lbs is heavy. I know I am close to it. Just because a company rates the product to a certain weight doesn't mean that the product will withstand the abuse.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusSommers
    I am disappointed that the company rep would respond in this way. I actually recommended a product last night that was designed by Brant, but this makes me question things. It is really irritating when a customer has a bad experience like this, and the manufacturer is rude to him.

    Cave Giant, I recommend the guys at Hope, I9, Chris King or Hadley for you hub needs. They care about their customers and reputations.
    I actually think Caveman is the rude one here. So far I have only read rude rants about the company and their products. Nothing of any substance.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minimalist
    217 lbs is heavy. I know I am close to it.
    Not really. I'm 6'7" and 250 lbs and haven't had any problems with kit regarding my weight (I'd be V skinny at 217). It is a coincidence that for 3 years I've ridden, pretty hard, a lightweight frame designed by Brant with no issues at all.

    Mr Giant seems to want to vent his spleen, despite Brant coming on here with a desire to resolve. Shame really.

  24. #24
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    I think Brandt designed a great bike in the inbred but if this is any indication of the kind of work he is involved in now, I will steer clear.

  25. #25
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    At least people can now see why I got irritated, main issue is still the members of staff at Hotlines, not the fact that NP sell a product that in my opinion and experience is dangerous and fails with little notice.



    You seem to have a real vendetta against us, which puzzles me a little, and your very overtly aggressive attitude could well cause some customer service staff to become rather agitated.

    Good drawing of conclusions with half the info.

    In fact you were spot on.
    I intentionally bought a product that I knew would fail, just so I could have a go at customer service.

    . I am quite open on the fact I break more than normal components.
    That is why I bought a 'Nuke Proof' hub rated for DH, when ride agressive XC.

    I had in fact tried this with a few manufacturers.
    I have ridden Hope Pro 2 hubs - but couldn't break them
    I have had a couple of sets of Shimano LX, one for over a decade - no problems
    I now ride Chris King - Havn't broken that
    I have also ridden Halo Spin Doctor - didn't break that.

    However when I ride the VERY expensive, downhill hub designed by a company that says their products are Nuke proof, 3 break in weeks.

    So compared to 10 year old and heavily abused, never maintained or serviced shimano LX hub which still runs fine, I have 3 dead NukeProofs.

    Aparently, due to my weight, it is fine the products break.


    Starting to ramble now,

    So does everyone understand my problems with this company or should I keep ranting?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusSommers
    217 is not very heavy. There are very few mountain bike products I sell that would not withstand a rider that size. Even American Classic rates their light wheels to 240 lbs.

    I am disappointed that the company rep would respond in this way. I actually recommended a product last night that was designed by Brant, but this makes me question things. It is really irritating when a customer has a bad experience like this, and the manufacturer is rude to him.

    Cave Giant, I recommend the guys at Hope, I9, Chris King or Hadley for you hub needs. They care about their customers and reputations.
    Hi,

    Thanks for the tips, I have personal experience with both Hope and CK, they are great.
    Hadley seems nice for my next set of hubs if the CK ever wear out.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    At least people can now see why I got irritated, main issue is still the members of staff at Hotlines, not the fact that NP sell a product that in my opinion and experience is dangerous and fails with little notice.
    So please, email or post here staff names so I can discuss with them!

    I am already in discussion with the factory about a tougher model.

    My hard riding friend recommends DT Swiss hubs. But he's a skinny lad, and just rides mega miles on a singlespeed (13,000 miles a year sort of distance).

    Anyhow.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    ps: bump. Where's that great pic of your niner with the plastic bag fork protectors on.


    That one?

    It is a nice bike that, really good rear hub on it, made by Chris King.

    The fork boots actually work really well, bit of a story behind that.

    I bought a set of WB 135 forks that started having issues quite fast.
    I phoned up WB and got put through to the guy who designed the fork.
    We worked together to pin down the problem.
    The Enduro wipers do not work on our local mud.

    Darek at WB then gave loads of good tips getting the fork to run how I like. Low stiction, fast action, strong return.
    After sending me out 3 sets of new seals and wipers, I got the idea that the Enduro product could just not do the job.
    WB then sent me out a whole new fork to see if that fixed it, nope.

    We then worked together to design oil proof boots and removed the wipers.

    My boots hold oil onto the stancs keeping it fully lubed and mud free.



    I can see why some people would not like this, if you rate aesthetics more than performance I could see there being an issue.

    Actually if you look at nukeproof products, they are marketed well.
    I would say the main competitor for the generator is Hope Pro 2 in the UKmarket.
    Nukeproof has 1 more pawl, a few more engagement points, is a few grams lighter and a few quid less. It also looks very pretty.

    So on paper, and in marketing looks very good, shame the product is ****, but you only find out that after you have given them your money.

    So White Brothers, knowing that I was slightly overweight and riding in caustic mud gave hours of their time, tons of spare parts and a new fork to make sure their customer was happy.

    Nukeproof found out I was riding a FS (blamed that), then 29er (blamed that), then eventually found out I was above average weight. Apparently that is fine though, as I weigh more I should expect their Downhill rated product to fail riding fire roads.


    Does anyone in the UK know who to complain to about business practice?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant


    That one?
    I was thinking of this one - https://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php...69&postcount=1

    I love the way you write
    Nukeproof found out I was riding a FS (blamed that), then 29er (blamed that), then eventually found out I was above average weight.
    When "Nukeproof" (me) got this information from your DM to me last night which said
    You guessed well from the name that I am a larger rider.
    6'7", 214lb and I ride a FS 29er.
    You've still not named any Hotlines staff members you have problems with, inspite of you saying that's the major problem.

  30. #30
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    We tend not to get involved with this type of thread - BUT, got to say as a supplier/disto we cannot fault Brant or the boys and girls at Hotlines.

    There are not many companies who are so active in resolving problems and really care about dealing with stuff promptly. That's why we like selling Brant's Ragleys - the back up to our customers is excellent.

    A step back and some perspective may be a good idea.

  31. #31
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    Sorry when using the word 'Nukeproof' I was referring to the company, its reps and distys.

    So that above statement should actually have been Hotlines,

    I was quite open to the fact I was a bigger rider, so you just jumped straight on that.

    p.s. I like the way I write too, thanks.

  32. #32
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    Also for the record, Brant said he did not design this hub, just inherited the design.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Also for the record, Brant said he did not design this hub, just inherited the design.
    Bravo - we're moving forward! Thanks for the acknowledgement.

    My wife says I've got to stop posting on this thread as I have a headache already and am meant to be spending time with our (many) children today.

    She also wants to see of pic of someone who's 6'7" in a Ford Ka. :-)

    CaveGiant - my email again (I hate DM's and I'm going to turn them off), [email protected]

    Still keen to hear actual names of staff at Hotlines, and would be delighted to send you a tougher sample for evaluation when we get one nailed (built, into a wheel, no drama).

    Lots of BIG things from Nukeproof coming in the next few days - (they're on Facebook) - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nuke-Proof/153078113326 (not 29er, but if Jeff Steber is thinking about things, we might too). Can't say any more.

    Over and out.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    So please, email or post here staff names so I can discuss with them!
    It is not my responsibility to handle any staff issues that Hotlines may have. I am an end user and consumer, one that has been badly treated.

    Why would you expect me to assist in causing discomfort to another person?

    I owe you nothing, but believe that NP/HL owes me a lot of money for multiple wheel builds I have had to do.

    I offered fair feedback to assist the redesign, that was me doing you a favour.

    Don't assume that because I am nice enough to give my time to give feedback, means I am willing to incriminate an individual (or two).

    p.s. I like that picture, what was the reason you linked it?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minimalist
    217 lbs is heavy. I know I am close to it. Just because a company rates the product to a certain weight doesn't mean that the product will withstand the abuse.




    I actually think Caveman is the rude one here. So far I have only read rude rants about the company and their products. Nothing of any substance.
    I am just a wheel builder who gets lots of clydes for customers, but I have not built a nuke proof hubset since the mid nineties. There were lots of crummy and expensive hubs back then.

    I can not really speak for current Nuke Proof stuff, but the name seems to imply it can handle more than a 217 lb rider.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusSommers
    I am just a wheel builder who gets lots of clydes for customers, but I have not built a nuke proof hubset since the mid nineties. There were lots of crummy and expensive hubs back then.

    I can not really speak for current Nuke Proof stuff, but the name seems to imply it can handle more than a 217 lb rider.
    That is also the reason I bought it, I wanted something tough.

    We are also not talking about an extra light XC hub here, I went for the DH version!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Why would you expect me to assist in causing discomfort to another person?
    If Hotlines treated you that badly then aren't you causing discomfort to your fellow customers that will get the same service in the future?

    I don't personally see anything wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions (what your posts are actually about aren't they?). Employers can't know 100% of the time what their employees are doing so you aren't really doing their job for them. Customer satisfaction rates are an important thing for any tech support center, and that info comes... from the customers

  38. #38
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    Nicely put, buying a product because the company name sounds tough is naive. If your improvement ideas are as brilliant, I am surprised that nay company has even listened. Have you actually mentioned what went wrong with the hubs or is that also a secret?

    I don't get why you are now so insisting on protecting somebody that was so rude to you? If you don't give a CS manager the names of the bad apples he won't be able to sort them out. Has nothing to do with throwing somebody under the bus.

    Judging by the pictures of your bikes, where would you put your "taking care of equipment skill" on a rate from 1-10 (1 being the worst)?

    Anyway, have fun with your vendetta. I'm out of here.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    If Hotlines treated you that badly then aren't you causing discomfort to your fellow customers that will get the same service in the future?

    I don't personally see anything wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions (what your posts are actually about aren't they?). Employers can't know 100% of the time what their employees are doing so you aren't really doing their job for them. Customer satisfaction rates are an important thing for any tech support center, and that info comes... from the customers
    Agreed. And what is more, you do not have to make that public, (the names). It seems you could simply e-mail Brant and tell him what he needs to know. He can see to it that things are represented properly, and customers in the future can benefit from it.

    I see no issue with a company calling out an employee(s) for poor customer service so it doesn't happen in the future. It is the company's responsibility to do that.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    Bravo - we're moving forward! Thanks for the acknowledgement.

    My wife says I've got to stop posting on this thread as I have a headache already and am meant to be spending time with our (many) children today.

    She also wants to see of pic of someone who's 6'7" in a Ford Ka. :-)

    CaveGiant - my email again (I hate DM's and I'm going to turn them off), [email protected]

    Still keen to hear actual names of staff at Hotlines, and would be delighted to send you a tougher sample for evaluation when we get one nailed (built, into a wheel, no drama).

    Lots of BIG things from Nukeproof coming in the next few days - (they're on Facebook) - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nuke-Proof/153078113326 (not 29er, but if Jeff Steber is thinking about things, we might too). Can't say any more.

    Over and out.
    Hi,

    Missed this post earlier.

    OK happy to e-mail, but for obvious reasons reluctant to give out my name.
    So just to confirm, if I e-mail you it will be about the resolution of this issue, I won't suddenly get a threat about posting info about NP online once you know who I am?

    paranoia I know, but never hurts to be over careful.

    p.s. I still will not give the names of the members of staff on principle.
    p.p.s. It was ~1 year ago, I can only remember one name and people change.

  41. #41
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    holy crap - you do give 6'7" mountain bikers a bad name. Your vendetta is pretty intense. I hope you find inner peace at some point. A year with a grudge like that must be shortening your life.

    Brant - a 6'7" man in a Ka isn't pretty. It is possible, it is even fun to drive, but it isn't nice to see.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Hi,
    p.s. I still will not give the names of the members of staff on principle.
    Why not? Unless they start putting in creepy surveillance practices, there's no way to know if a front-line customer service rep is doing their job well without customer feedback.

    You'd be doing them (and everyone else that has to deal with a person who's under-trained or in the wrong job) a favor.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK
    holy crap - you do give 6'7" mountain bikers a bad name. Your vendetta is pretty intense. I hope you find inner peace at some point. A year with a grudge like that must be shortening your life.

    Brant - a 6'7" man in a Ka isn't pretty. It is possible, it is even fun to drive, but it isn't nice to see.
    Worry not TallMan, the internet gives a distorted image of everyones personality.

    This Giant not only caves, but eats sweetcorn, so is jolly and green.

    If you think seeing a giant in a Ford Ka is tough, try seeing me get out of one.
    I was prone to falling over the first few times.

    Am I right in assuming TooTall that you have a Ka too?

    Two giant UK riders in tiny cars!

  44. #44
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    getting back on track for the OP

    I have this fork. Bought it from CR cycles last summer. I also have the WB version. They are EXACTLY the same. Good product, good price depending on the exchange rate.

    Sorry you thread was hi-jacked by a rider that can't move on.

    Happy riding.




    Quote Originally Posted by Rasta Monkey
    Hi All 29ers' Bros,

    Any feedback on ths fork?thinking of mounting it on my KM.Many thanks in advance.

  45. #45
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    Nuke proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexkraemer
    Is that the right fork? Nuke Proof makes a 29er version, but that looks like the 26" version.
    26" http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=38424
    29" http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=33927
    Thanks Alex ,

    You are right,that is 26er'.The 29ers' doesn't have the canti boss Maybe should look into the orgin8 29ers'.Sorry for all the starting subject for the NUKE PROOF.

  46. #46
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    np - it's funny how after staring at 29er stuff for years you eventually get a sense for what's 26" and what's 29" just by looking. Probably means I've spent too much time on the web...

  47. #47
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    How many are on your staff?

    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    How am I being rude to him?

    To reiterate (and I am going to have to stop work soon as it's my sons 11th birthday today, and it's 18:50pm in the evening)...

    1) I asked "cavegiant" if he could let me know which specific members of Hotlines staff he'd had issues with so I could discuss with them.
    2) I've said I'm going to look at a tougher version in the next few months.
    I mean, seems to me NukeProof can't be THAT big a company. How many support techs do you have? 2? 3? 4? Can't you ask them if they talked to CaveGiant? How many customers blew out 3 hubs? Shouldn't be that hard to narrow down. When on a TS call, we all don't write the names down. Please don't turn this into 'blame the customer'. No good can come of that.

    Yeah, and 217 lbs is not that heavy. I fluctuate between 200 and 220 over the last 8 years or so, and I only broke one Shimano freehub in my lifetime... and that hub was already 10 years old.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    I mean, seems to me NukeProof can't be THAT big a company. How many support techs do you have? 2? 3? 4? Can't you ask them if they talked to CaveGiant? How many customers blew out 3 hubs? Shouldn't be that hard to narrow down. When on a TS call, we all don't write the names down. Please don't turn this into 'blame the customer'. No good can come of that.

    Yeah, and 217 lbs is not that heavy. I fluctuate between 200 and 220 over the last 8 years or so, and I only broke one Shimano freehub in my lifetime... and that hub was already 10 years old.
    The "Hotlines" that brant mentioned is a much larger distributor (link) that also handles support for many of the brands they carry, so there are probably many tech support staffers

  49. #49
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    I've been investigating.

    Mr Cave Giant had failed to point out to me that he'd been fitting an 150mm hub to a 135mm spaced frame, which caused ludicrous amounts of stress to the axle, causing freehub binding/wear issue and axle snappage.

    He didn't specifically point this out to staff responsible, but they figured it out as the Niner RIP9 doesn't come with 150mm rear spacing.

    We're still investigating a tougher freehub because it's nice to have tough stuff.

  50. #50
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    Ahh, see that would explain the problem then.

    I suspect and apology may be forthcoming...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    I've been investigating.

    Mr Cave Giant had failed to point out to me that he'd been fitting an 150mm hub to a 135mm spaced frame, which caused ludicrous amounts of stress to the axle, causing freehub binding/wear issue and axle snappage.

    He didn't specifically point this out to staff responsible, but they figured it out as the Niner RIP9 doesn't come with 150mm rear spacing.

    We're still investigating a tougher freehub because it's nice to have tough stuff.
    Holy **** that is hilarious. It must have been a pain in the ass to spread that frame open 15mm to fit that hub in there.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    Mr Cave Giant had failed to point out to me that he'd been fitting an 150mm hub to a 135mm spaced frame, which caused ludicrous amounts of stress to the axle, causing freehub binding/wear issue and axle snappage.

    He didn't specifically point this out to staff responsible, but they figured it out as the Niner RIP9 doesn't come with 150mm rear spacing.
    He's got a WFO with a 150 rear end though!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by collideous
    He's got a WFO with a 150 rear end though!

    ...now....
    Ride.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by collideous
    He's got a WFO with a 150 rear end though!
    Good catch, I did not even notice that, my bad.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by collideous
    He's got a WFO with a 150 rear end though!
    Sounds like he should put a 135mm hub on there to get a better chainline ;-)

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bike Chain
    Ahh, see that would explain the problem then.

    I suspect and apology may be forthcoming...
    I doubt it!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    I've been investigating.

    Mr Cave Giant had failed to point out to me that he'd been fitting an 150mm hub to a 135mm spaced frame, (LIE)


    which caused ludicrous amounts of stress to the axle, causing freehub binding/wear issue and axle snappage. (Speculation with marketing twist)

    He didn't specifically point this out to staff responsible, but they figured it out as the Niner RIP9 doesn't come with 150mm rear spacing. (I was originally running a 135 hub)

    We're still investigating a tougher freehub because it's nice to have tough stuff.
    (Probably the truth)

    This is why I had issues with Hotlines, they make up stuff.

    The fact is most of the above is complete marketing BS to deflect from the reason that the hub was ****.

    So sorry guys, Brant has decieved you, probably to discredit a customer who had issues with their product.

    It is weird, but the 135mm nukeproof hub I had fitted to my RIP9 failed.

    So Brant, if you are trying to discredit someone, if you stick to the facts you might have more credibility.

    that was a low blow dude.
    Basically my word against yours on this, I can produce a reciept for a 135 hub can you?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    The fact is most of the above is complete marketing BS to deflect from the reason that the hub was ****
    It's simple. Did you, or did you not, fit a 150mm hub to a 135mm frame and have a failure?

    I know the answer, you know the answer.

    Infact you emailed me this morning "Not for the first hub, but the second/third, yes."

  59. #59
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    Begin forwarded message:

    From: "Peter S######" <peters#####[email protected]>
    Date: 18 February 2010 08:04:23 GMT
    To: "'brant'" <[email protected]>
    Subject: RE: Cave Giant

    Hi Brant,

    Not for the first hub, but the second/third, yes.

    I would be interested in knowing how that would cause additional stress to the hub, the other guys just made up pseudo science.

    Where do CRC come into the mix?

    Thanks

    P


    -----Original Message-----
    From: brant [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: 18 February 2010 07:53
    To: Peter Sc########
    Subject: Re: Cave Giant

    Hi Peter.

    Was discussing your issues with Dale at Chain Reaction the other day. He's the head mechanic there.

    His eyes sort of lit up when I mentioned your problem. This is because he's had so few problems with the hubs, but yours was a particularly stand out case.

    He seemed to remember that you were running a 150mm hub in a bike designed for 135mm wheels? Is that the case?

  60. #60
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    Oh so now you admit that a 135 hub failed in a 135 frame. Conveniently forgot to mention that earlier.

    Yes, after the 135 hub failed in the 135 frame, I fitted a 150, which failed IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, followed with replaced internals that failed in exactly the same way.

    So basically the hub failed the same way completely independant of the size.


    So think up another excuse.

    I would also appreciate private e-mails not being posted in the open. Anything you have said in e-mail I have kept private I would appreciate the same courtesy.


    p.s. thanks for masking my name.

  61. #61
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    "Conveniently forgot to mention that earlier."

    Like you conveniently forgot to mention that you suffered these repeated failures with a shoe-horned hub in a too narrow frame? Peter, I'm over this. Done.

    I don't see that your subsequent failures are related to your initial failure at all. As I said this morning in my email to you:-

    "Number one reason for broken axles on any hub is misaligned dropouts. If you splay a rear triangle to fit a bigger hub than is intended, those dropouts are going to be considerably misaligned. This flexes the hub axle, which then massively increases the loads on it. "

  62. #62
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    Well as you were only giving part information and putting a marketing style twist on it, seems fair that I should be allowed.

    As I am the one who has seen the insides of my hubs, you havn't I would love to know how you manage to draw your magic conclusions with half the information.

    If you had given me time to respond to your earlier e-mail without spouting half truths and marketing BS online, maybe this would have saved a bit of embarasment for both of us?

    If anyone else is still reading, the pawls in the hub snapped in both the 135 and the 150. The axle was unharmed.
    The RIP9 rear triangle is very flexy and the drop outs lined up parralel perfectly and I tightened up the axle.
    If the rear triangle was stiff, it would not have lined up and would have caused issues. It wasn't so no issues.

    I talked this issue over with a few engineers and they said the above excuse is BS. It would stress the frame heavily, not the hub.

    Notice how the key reason for faliure was the 150 frame breaking the axle.
    No mention of the fact the axles were fine, it was the pawls that broke and the 135 hub.

    p.s. try to be a bit less grumpy

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    As I am the one who has seen the insides of my hubs, you havn't I would love to know how you manage to draw your magic conclusions with half the information.
    Peter - my sincere apologies. I was sure I'd seen a picture from you of a broken rear axle. A this wasnt the case, then I'm clearly in the wrong, and more than happy to acknowledge that.

    My point regarding axle stress, bending, flexing axles, and what have you still stand - the way the bearings run on the freehub body/axle, a shoe-horned hub would stress the pawls in a way they weren't intended. It would have been interesting to see how you would have got on with a hub the right size, with a fresh set of parts in there.

    But I think we're all past this, and hoping you'll accept my apology over my mistake regarding axle snappage, I'll bow out.

  64. #64
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    No apology needed, but thanks any way.

    The hub really wasn't shoehorned in.
    The rear triangle on the RIP was obscenely flexible, the rear dropouts lined up almost perfectly flat with the bigger hub. It required only a few lbs of force to flatten it completely, a fraction of the full tightening force.

    I am under the impression that the fractional difference caused by the frame change IN THIS EXAMPLE ONLY would be neglegable compared to the additional forces from the movement of the frame while riding.

    It is only due the rear end being so floppy that it fitted fiine. If I squeezed a 165 hub into my WFO it would not fit or come close to lining up.

    I should also add that this was not what was told to be when I spoke to hotlines.
    What I was told by the guy there (not Brant), the forces of the frame squeezing the hub would crush the hub. Those few ounces of force would crush a solid steel axle and Al sub axle. yeah right!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    It is not my responsibility to handle any staff issues that Hotlines may have. I am an end user and consumer, one that has been badly treated.
    You come across as someone that is willing to bad mouth a company and do your best to degrade their image, but you're not willing to provide any helpful feedback? I agree with Brant, you do seem rather abrasive (at least on line).

    At first I was tending to agree with your opinion, but the more I read the more I tend to regard it as the rants of a lunatic. Brant seems to be willing to work with you, and all you can say, "it sucks, but I'm not going to lift a finger to help."
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  66. #66
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    Actually most of the private e-mails have been discussing the mechanical faliures of the hub, my observations and discussing ideas to improve it.

    I am giving my time for that and hoping to make a difference to the future design.
    If the pawls/ratchet hold together it would be great hub, however it currently, in my opinion, is dangerous.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Actually most of the private e-mails have been discussing the mechanical faliures of the hub, my observations and discussing ideas to improve it.

    I am giving my time for that and hoping to make a difference to the future design.
    If the pawls/ratchet hold together it would be great hub, however it currently, in my opinion, is dangerous.
    You use a product in a way it was not designed for, are not an engineer, start a vendetta against the manufacturer in a public forum and expect the engineers of the manufacturer to value your opinion. That sums it about up, doesn't it?

  68. #68
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    Yep that would be the narrow minded way to look at it.

    A reasonable person would take more information into account before making a decision, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    You just seem to waste yours, shame.

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