Niner official - Jet 9 safety recall- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Niner official - Jet 9 safety recall

    First, we sincerely apologize for how long you have waited for this response. Please understand it has nothing to do with Niner ignoring or not caring about these concerns.

    The fact is we have been very hard at work analyzing the issues with the Jet 9 so that we could fully understand the warranty cases we received and provide a definitive solution. This analysis included destructive testing, metallurgical study and FEA computer modeling. Using these methods we examined the quality of the base metal, filler material, heat affected zone of the weld, structural design and finish quality of the frames. We built over 20 new prototypes and tested them in every way imaginable.

    In light of test results and after many hours of discussion on how best to serve our loyal customers, we decided to voluntarily recall Jet 9 frames with serial numbers from P8001682 to P9400454.. These frames risk welding defects in the front and rear triangles that may lead to a premature failure of the frame. Unfortunately, there is no way to visually check for these weld defects. We must require that you stop riding the frame immediately because a failure could occur at any time.

    Instead of continuing work on an interim solution using the current Jet 9 frame, we decided to move ahead with a complete redesign. We developed many new features for the R.I.P. 9 and W.F.O. 9 frames that will greatly enhance the new Jet 9:

    Tapered head tube to accept new 80-100mm tapered forks
    Hydro-formed tubes for added stiffness without increasing weight
    Forged frame pieces for added stiffness
    Same great geometry and travel as the previous Jet 9

    The bottom line: Every current owner of a Jet 9 under the voluntary recall will have the option of receiving a replacement frame (front and rear triangle). Your new frame will be reassembled with your current linkages and shock before we ship it to you.

    We are already in the prototyping process for the new Jet 9, but delivering the redesigned model will take some time to accomplish. We hope to start shipping new frames to customers in late Winter or early Spring 2010. This could be at long as 6 months from now. We understand this is simply not a viable option for many of you. In effort to accommodate varying customer needs, we offer several options detailed below.

    Option 1 (Available until October 31st)

    I want to keep riding and use this opportunity to grow the quiver - Purchase a different NINER frame at an extreme discount. Ride your new bike while you wait to receive your free replacement Jet 9 frame. In the long run, you end up with two bikes at a really good price.

    Special Discount Pricing:

    R.I.P. 9 $800 (discount of $999)
    ONE 9/S.I.R. 9 $300 (discount of $549)
    AIR 9/ M.C.R. 9 $300 (discount of $499)
    E.M.D. 9 $150 (discount of $349)

    Option 2
    I would rather own a R.I.P. 9 - Make the permanent switch to a R.I.P. 9 at no charge. No replacement Jet 9 frame will be shipped.

    Option 3
    I have the patience of a saint. I can wait. - Receive a $150 gift certificate towards Niner gear while you wait to receive your free replacement Jet 9 frame.

    Our website will have all this information as well as a link to help get your case started. Visit http://www.ninerbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=recall

    We cannot overstate our concern in regards to these issues, and are investing significant portion of company resources into correcting the issue in the most expedited manner. Niner puts a lot of care into producing bikes that we are proud to put our name on. Our goal is to provide excellent customer service and we realize that ths recall is a huge inconvenience. The amount of time we have put into this testing process has caused production delays, leaving orders unfilled. We know that customers spent hard earned money on a Niner and now we are asking that you to send the frame back for replacement. For some people this is a second time. We cannot begin to explain how sorry we feel about this, but we promise we will make things right and thank you for your purchase, understanding and support.


    Niner Bikes
    Last edited by Niner Bikes; 09-14-2009 at 02:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Seeeriously easy Livin
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    Wow nice job taking care of the customers, and stepping up to do the right thing, it speaks volumes about your business.

  3. #3
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    BRAVO!!!! I can't say enough about the service of NINER. You guys ROCK. This just locked in my purchase for a Carbon Air 9.
    Got LEFTY?
    -2019 C'dale SuperSlateX
    -2017 C’dale Scalpel Carbon 3
    -2014 C’dale Bad Boy 1

  4. #4
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    There will certainly be someone who will try to buy a new frame at the replacement cost offered, yet they do not currently own a Jet9.

    Can I be that someone?!!! Just a hardtail, that's all. I love my RIP9.

  5. #5
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    Good job on handling this guys. Two suggestions for the mods:
    1. Sticky this, please.
    2. Lock this thread. If someone else wants to start a thread bashing/praising Niner for doing a recall, feel free. I just think this should be treated as an announcement. Save the commentary for another thread.

  6. #6
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    Strong work Niner. Very well done.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  7. #7
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    That's amazing CS.
    I'm stunned.

  8. #8
    Chronic 1st-timer
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    Wow!
    Way to take care of your supporters Niner!



    I want one of those deep-discount frames
    Trailwrecker at large

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubes17319
    Wow!
    Way to take care of your supporters Niner!



    I want one of those deep-discount frames

    NO, they are MINE! I called it first. Gimme.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
    Good job on handling this guys. Two suggestions for the mods:
    1. Sticky this, please.
    2. Lock this thread. If someone else wants to start a thread bashing/praising Niner for doing a recall, feel free. I just think this should be treated as an announcement. Save the commentary for another thread.
    I would like to comment on your commentary on not to have commentary although I have no comment other than to agree 2TNE's comment.

    Mods, please delete my comment if you sticky and lock this thread so as to prevent comments.

    (Way to be Niner )
    Thank you,

    Chris in Spring Valley, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  11. #11
    Beware the Blackbuck!
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    I don't own a Jet9, but wow, those are the best recall options I've ever seen.

  12. #12
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    Kudo's to Niner for doing the right thing, especially during these financial times. Sometimes it's expensive to do the right thing, but actions like these are why I now own 2 Niner bikes, and will continue to support companies like these that take care of business when QC or design issues need fixing.

    I've no doubt that the hydro formed version will solve any front triangle problems.

  13. #13
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    Good job!

    Way to go Niner Bikes!!!
    Customer service like this is very rare these days, in any industry.

    4 years on my SIR9 and loving every minute. When I'm ready for a FS again, I'll be buying a JET
    "Veni, vedi, pulsus" "I came, I saw, I pushed"

  14. #14
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    P8071989 - BINGO!
    My local kick ass shop put me on an Air 9 during the rocker arm recall and man do I miss that bike. Or it would be a great time to add a SS to the barn...... Crap, now I'll never get to sleep.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29WI
    P8071989 - BINGO!
    That's funny in a sad way eh? I hope you make great soup outa bad poop!
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  16. #16
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    Way to go Niner. That's why my family now own 6 Niners. 2 EMD, 2 Air9, 1MCR, and 1 '09 RIP9.

  17. #17
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    WTB broken Jet 9.
    All problems in mountain biking can be solved by going faster, except the ones that are caused by going too fast.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug
    WTB broken Jet 9.
    Hey...it's customary to pay your $2 for an add
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  19. #19
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    I'll add to the 'wows' for niner CS. Don't own one, but this is certainly grounds for considering one when the time's right.

  20. #20
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    The wanted ads are free

  21. #21
    Live Life, Ride a Bike!
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    Man I have never even considered a Niner bike, but now you guys are at the top of the list for my FS. That is what CS should be like, PERIOD! Good Job Niner, and now to save for a R.I.P 9! Are you guys allowing shipment to APO's from your vendors for Military personnel?

  22. #22
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    Awesome CS.

    Niner was high on my list for the next 29'er and CS like this has pushed them even higher.

  23. #23
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    I thought this might happen. Now... what to do???
    Studies show 100% of people die. Might as well have some fun.

  24. #24
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    Good job!

    Excellent Niner,

    Well done making lemonade out of lemons is how to show the competition how to fix an issue. Any manufacturer that has a warranty issue after this will have to step up or look like last week's baloney sandwich.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug
    WTB broken Jet 9.
    Me Too
    "Veni, vedi, pulsus" "I came, I saw, I pushed"

  26. #26

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    Outstanding CS.

  27. #27
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    So how much time do i have to return my frame? I have a 24 hour race on oct 17-18. I see that option 1 is valid to oct 31st. Just wondering if i can still race my jet then the following week get it shipped out and exchange for another frame, i'm thinking sir9 but that's another thread.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortechcoupe
    So how much time do i have to return my frame? I have a 24 hour race on oct 17-18. I see that option 1 is valid to oct 31st. Just wondering if i can still race my jet then the following week get it shipped out and exchange for another frame, i'm thinking sir9 but that's another thread.
    By my calculation, October 18th is 13 days before October 31st. And 10 of those days are normal weekday business hours for shipping companies.

    BB

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortechcoupe
    So how much time do i have to return my frame? I have a 24 hour race on oct 17-18. I see that option 1 is valid to oct 31st. Just wondering if i can still race my jet then the following week get it shipped out and exchange for another frame, i'm thinking sir9 but that's another thread.

    Reread the thread, Cease and desist riding the Jet, immediately. Get something else to race before Oct 17th or 18th, maybe an AIR 9 or a RIP.

    "We must require that you stop riding the frame immediately because a failure could occur at any time."

  30. #30
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    You may also want to consider this quote from the notice: " We must require that you stop riding the frame immediately because a failure could occur at any time. "

  31. #31
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    I can say that I have never seen CS this good, I have never felt the need to post on this type of thread but after reading Niner's post there is no way I could not.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes
    Special Discount Pricing:

    R.I.P. 9 $800 (discount of $999)
    The first opportunist has surfaced:
    http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...?product=39686

    Trying to make a quick $600.00
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  33. #33
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    That is just fricken sad.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Beater
    That is just fricken sad.
    I kinda agree.. Also, buyer beware you may not have such great support on that "nib" rip frame as you would if you bought it from a authorized dealer???
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  35. #35
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    Can we turn in a Jet 9 for a W.F.O. at the same -$999 from MSRP ($900 end cost)? They are currently available.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Beater
    That is just fricken sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duzitall
    I kinda agree.. Also, buyer beware you may not have such great support on that "nib" rip frame as you would if you bought it from a authorized dealer???
    Well, I am disappointed by these comments but I expected some to come. For my defense, I will say the following:

    1. I have been a strong advocate of Niner and I have built an expensive show case bike that I have promoted quite a bit. I am still a strong advocate of Niner, for their bikes and customer support.
    2. Niner must have expected some of these discounted frames to be resold. If they thought this was unacceptable, I would expect some small prints to that effect.
    3. Of the various generous offers, none of them suit me very well for my case. The option of getting a RIP and reselling it is the most appealing for my personal case. (And then get a Carbon Air SS later to join my Jet).
    4. I have already suffered multiple frame issues, and will now be without my Jet for many months. I think it is normal to be somewhat compensated for that.
    5. I don't feel Niner gets hurt by people reselling these frames on the used market. Some shops will miss out on some sales, but I feel most people shopping on the used market won't buy new bikes from shops anyway. And I don't think Niner is losing money on the discounted frames.
    6. Reselling new warrantied frame is a common practice.


    I am sorry to see people feel I am abusing the system here. It was not my intention.

  37. #37
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    Second that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flystagg
    Wow nice job taking care of the customers, and stepping up to do the right thing, it speaks volumes about your business.

    Good customer service!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duzitall
    I kinda agree.. Also, buyer beware you may not have such great support on that "nib" rip frame as you would if you bought it from a authorized dealer???
    My dealer has called all the owners they sold, offered to tear down the bike for shipping, offered to help get the RIP for me through the program and any other assistance. A bike frame is only the beginning of the relationship with a LBS; service, parts, upgrades, accessories, why would a dealer not look forward to that?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FASTK
    My dealer has called all the owners they sold, offered to tear down the bike for shipping, offered to help get the RIP for me through the program and any other assistance. A bike frame is only the beginning of the relationship with a LBS; service, parts, upgrades, accessories, why would a dealer not look forward to that?
    Perhaps you are misunderstanding my comments. We are talking about a "new in box" rip frame purchased from an individual via internet, not from a LBS. I was asking would this rip frame receive the same support from Niner as a frame purchased at a authorized vendor?

    I don't know the answer but I suspect warranty issues would be harder to resolve. I do know if I had a problem with a Niner frame purchased at my local vendor here in San Diego it would be resolved ASAP by the LBS and Niner.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  40. #40
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    Flafonta I can understand the recomp part but saying "let me know what frame size and color you want and i will get it for 800 and sell it to you for 1400." is more then compensation. They are letting you get a frame to ride in the mean time so you are not missing out on riding. They could have said send your bike in we will change the frame throw you some garb ect and called it even however they are doing somthing beyond most bike companies (if not all) and trying to make things right for their clients.

    It would be different if the person was buying the frame to use in the mean time and then selling it after for the price but they are basically takeing the deal with no desire to use the bike in the mean time and only for profit.

    It is no wonder bike companies these days have worse and worse customer service.

    I still think Niner is doing something great for the people who ride their bikes ( and ones who will ride them in the future.) Yes they may expect that some will take advantage of it, but it still does not make it right.

    Anyway Flafonta I think it is great that you provided your reasons and I am not trying to flame you, I just would hate to see Niner say tuff luck in the future if something like this happened to another frame, since they seem to be the best for CS.

  41. #41
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    I just had my friend pay me the $300 for the air9 replacement. I am going to ride it untill the winter when the Jet comes in and then he will take the frame. I made no profit and I am riding it untill the new jet is available. I will also help create another niner fanatic who will buy niner frames at full price in the future. Share the love......

  42. #42
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    we decided to voluntarily recall Jet 9 frames with serial numbers from P8071682 to P8400454.
    Question to Niner : First and foremost this is excellent customer service but as mentioned in the quote, does that mean all the Jet built with serial numbers above P8400454 are safe and they won't break ? If yes, I would be glad to get of one these P840045? frame right now instead of waiting six months to get a 2010 redesigned version. Is that possible ?

  43. #43
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    I own a Jet that experienced a broken rear triangle. Niner sent me a replacement rear triangle (different color) when I needed to get my rig back up and running and then replaced the entire frame with a RIP.
    Stuff happens and they are trying hard to make it right. I enjoyed my Jet and look forward to my RIP. Niner has earned my respect and loyalty.

  44. #44
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    Wow stellar customer service!
    Other bike mfgs with their own well known problems would do well to emulate the stellar example shown by Niner.

    Kudos Way to take the high road!!! Very rare to see nowadays.

  45. #45
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    FWIW, I was thinking along the same lines about which replacement frame to get. Right now, I've decided that I'm gonna ride an SIR 9 until the JET shows up next year. I haven't really ridden an HT 29er before, so that will be a nice change. By the time the new frame gets here, I should have collected enough parts to turn the SIR into a single speed.

  46. #46
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    wish all companys were like this.

  47. #47
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    VERY impressive customer service!! I'll be looking hard at the niners during future purchases now. I wish I had a jet and could pick up a SIR9 for that price!

    Great Job NINER!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  48. #48
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    Yeah, that is just wrong...you haven't even gotten the frame yet, hopefully Niner only allows a same size/color replacement as your Jet to help limit your profitabilty in this venture. Speaking of profitabilty, bike shops don't even make that kind of margin on those frames
    Now I hope other people end up selling theirs just so they can undercut your price and create a new "market" price
    also, better let everyone know that is looking at buying from you that the manufacturer's warranty will not transfer to them

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenai
    Yeah, that is just wrong...you haven't even gotten the frame yet, hopefully Niner only allows a same size/color replacement as your Jet to help limit your profitabilty in this venture. Speaking of profitabilty, bike shops don't even make that kind of margin on those frames
    Now I hope other people end up selling theirs just so they can undercut your price and create a new "market" price
    also, better let everyone know that is looking at buying from you that the manufacturer's warranty will not transfer to them
    I find it "odd" as well. There are already a couple of Niner 'yet to be obtained', but already up for auction on eBay frames which I am sure are on the other end of the stick of this safety recall.

    BB

  50. #50
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    good CS + good CYA

    Looks like Niner is trying to keep people happy and they should be commended.

    That being said, I am surprised a recall took this long--a tort lawyer could have taken them to the cleaners with all the frame breakages over time if someone became paralyzed, etc.

    The recall is good business practice, all the extra measures where they go above and beyond are good CS

  51. #51
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    Maybe I missed something, but when my new Jet 9 arrives I'm going to need:

    New 100mm fork with tapered steerer tube
    New headset

    OK, the headset is no big deal, but the fork is major $$. I know there are tapered tubes for longer travel bikes (like the RIP), but what fork options exist at 100mm? I'm sure there are reducer headsets that will allow you to run a non-tapered tube, but why have the technology if you can't use it?

    I love my Jet 9, it's the best mountain bike I've owned in 20 years of riding, but between the hours I spent building it and now will spend tearing it down and building up a new one, plus the $$ for a new fork, I can't help but feel disappointed. It really hit home when I pulled my old Blur down from the garage ceiling and started going over it to get it in shape to ride... I went from disappointed to sad

    I'm impressed with how Niner is handling this, but I'd really like to see them use their growing industry power to pass along some savings on some new taper forks to those of us impacted by this recall.

  52. #52
    Beware the Blackbuck!
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    So, just for clarification, you're disappointed, no, sad that they're incorporating new technology into a frame that you have the option to use at your leisure, or not use it all...

    I mean, we all hate it when we get paid 150 dollars (at the minimum) for an updated frame, but what can you do, right?

  53. #53
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    Yes you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by damagr
    Maybe I missed something, but when my new Jet 9 arrives I'm going to need:

    New 100mm fork with tapered steerer tube
    New headset

    OK, the headset is no big deal, but the fork is major $$. I know there are tapered tubes for longer travel bikes (like the RIP), but what fork options exist at 100mm? I'm sure there are reducer headsets that will allow you to run a non-tapered tube, but why have the technology if you can't use it?

    I love my Jet 9, it's the best mountain bike I've owned in 20 years of riding, but between the hours I spent building it and now will spend tearing it down and building up a new one, plus the $$ for a new fork, I can't help but feel disappointed. It really hit home when I pulled my old Blur down from the garage ceiling and started going over it to get it in shape to ride... I went from disappointed to sad

    I'm impressed with how Niner is handling this, but I'd really like to see them use their growing industry power to pass along some savings on some new taper forks to those of us impacted by this recall.
    Yes you did miss something.
    You can run your same fork on the new frame. You will just need to use the lower reducer cup, THAT COMES WITH THE NEW AND IMPROVED FRAME, for your fork.

    All clear now?
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by damagr
    Maybe I missed something, but when my new Jet 9 arrives I'm going to need:

    New 100mm fork with tapered steerer tube
    New headset
    You missed something. The new frames will come with a headset that includes an adapter to use a standard 1-1/8" steerer fork.

    See post here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...21#post6100621

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    I find it "odd" as well. There are already a couple of Niner 'yet to be obtained', but already up for auction on eBay frames which I am sure are on the other end of the stick of this safety recall.

    BB
    The only "odd" thing is listing the replacement frame for sale prior to receiving it in person. You see endless "new - warranty replacement" frames on ebay from all makes (GF Superfly to Cannondale SuperSix). People decide that the recalled or warrantied frames are not for them, and the best time to sell your frame is right when you receive the new replacement. Ebay IS the market, and people will determine for what new but without warranty frames should sell.

  56. #56
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    Just to be clear.

    The new Jet 9 will include a new headset. You will be able to use your current 1 /18 fork (adpter will be included) or you can use a tapered fork (bearings and race included).

    Most major fork makers will be offering 2010 29er forks in the 80-100mm travel range in a tapered version. The new Jet 9 will take advantage of this and will be forward compatable.

    Our main concern is to keep you riding. In a perfect world we would like to offer these forks to customers at a discount but we believe we are being fair with the current offers.

    We have been getting a few requests from customers to get an Air 9 Carbon. Again our main concern is to keep you riding and the Air 9 Carbon will not be ready for delivery for a while, so this will not be an option.

    Thanks for all your support during this time. It is nice for all of us a Niner Bikes to read the positive comments posted. It make what we do here real.



    Chris & Steve
    Niner Bikes

  57. #57
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    Niner

    A few of us have asked about the cutoff point of frame numbers Please let us people who have frames with numbers above the recall point know where we stand. Why are our frames Ok. Would be great for our piece of mind.

    Thank you

    Craig

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiktm
    A few of us have asked about the cutoff point of frame numbers Please let us people who have frames with numbers above the recall point know where we stand. Why are our frames Ok. Would be great for our piece of mind.

    Thank you

    Craig
    Dear Craig,

    We did spend the whole morning again going over our production notes and relazed we made an error with the batch numbers. The correct numbers are P8001682 to P9400454. We will be correcting our website and this site to reflect this.

    Chris
    Niner Bikes

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    Niner

    That is great . But my question is : I have frame #P 8400467 Not part of the recall. 13 frames after Why are these frames Ok? Different welder, different aluminum,
    Not worried just interested.

    Thanks love my Niner

    Craig

    Sorry, just realized I am part of the recall the 8 changed to a 9

    Next Question : I live in Los Angeles ,can I come to your warehouse and pick up a frame since I brought the bike from Bike 29 on the east coast. Save time and shipping ??
    Last edited by kiwiktm; 09-14-2009 at 02:51 PM.

  60. #60
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    Going by the numbers that CHris just posted you are now well within the cut off.

  61. #61
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    Just saw an update to the recall extending the S/Ns to 9400454:

    Jet 9 Safety Recall Update: The previously indicated serial number range was incorrect. The corrected range is: P8001682 to P9400454. Please refer to this link with questions.

  62. #62
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    Amazing!!

    I've been around the bicycle industry for over 25 years and can't remember such a small company stepping up to handle a problem in such a big way. Hats off to Niner.

    I own a Jet 9. Decisions, decisions, decisions.................................
    “It's only death defying if you survive!"

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by damagr
    Maybe I missed something, but when my new Jet 9 arrives I'm going to need:

    New 100mm fork with tapered steerer tube
    New headset

    I love my Jet 9, it's the best mountain bike I've owned in 20 years of riding, but between the hours I spent building it and now will spend tearing it down and building up a new one, plus the $$ for a new fork, I can't help but feel disappointed. It really hit home when I pulled my old Blur down from the garage ceiling and started going over it to get it in shape to ride... I went from disappointed to sad
    Others have answered with regard to the fork and HS - you'll be fine in both departments.

    As to the "hours" required. Buy a 6 pack, turn on the tunes and have fun taking the old JET 9 apart and repeat the process with a new 6 pack next spring when the replacement arrives. Tear down should take you less than an hour, and the rebuild should be a nice afternoon or evening project.

    BB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52
    I just had my friend pay me the $300 for the air9 replacement. I am going to ride it untill the winter when the Jet comes in and then he will take the frame. I made no profit and I am riding it untill the new jet is available. I will also help create another niner fanatic who will buy niner frames at full price in the future. Share the love......

    I could not think of a better example on doing the right thing.... use it, ride it, but take the $300 in full from your friend only when you are ready to sell it, maybe a 20% deposit to hold it until Spring, say $60 from your buddy as consideration, and put it all in writing first, with dates, $, and signatures.

  65. #65
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    While I am not part of the recall, I do own a RIP, great riding bike, no issues ever with it so far, and in August I built up an XL AIR 9.

    IMHO.. If you bought your Jet to race, I think you'd be very, very happy with losing 2.5 to 3 pounds from your Jet and going racing on an AIR 9. You will certainly be competitive on this bike while it's temporarily in your quiver of weapons to chose from, until your Jet is replaced.

    I've not heard or read of a single failure on the AIR 9, it's solid. Perhaps Niner can comment about the durability of Scandium?

  66. #66
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    WOW great job niner - after riding the Jet at interbike last year i had to have one, it was that much better than all the other stuff i rode. i'm glad that i'm supporting a company with CS that is second to none. looking forward to riding / buying a carbon niner to compliment my jet nine (and now one 9) next season.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    The only "odd" thing is listing the replacement frame for sale prior to receiving it in person.
    Exactly my point. That is indeed the thing I find odd. Opening up an auction without the product even in hand and no date of arrival of the frame. You'd think that one would wait to list the frame until they actually had it to sell...

  68. #68
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    You'll have to pry my jet from my aching fingers. I too claim this to be the best ride I've ever had. Can't wait for it to improve! Looking forward to a winter on an MCR.

    Niner is clearly different from the rest.
    The Domesticated SSer

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    Well, I am disappointed by these comments but I expected some to come. For my defense, I will say the following:

    1. I have been a strong advocate of Niner and I have built an expensive show case bike that I have promoted quite a bit. I am still a strong advocate of Niner, for their bikes and customer support.
    2. Niner must have expected some of these discounted frames to be resold. If they thought this was unacceptable, I would expect some small prints to that effect.
    3. Of the various generous offers, none of them suit me very well for my case. The option of getting a RIP and reselling it is the most appealing for my personal case. (And then get a Carbon Air SS later to join my Jet).
    4. I have already suffered multiple frame issues, and will now be without my Jet for many months. I think it is normal to be somewhat compensated for that.
    5. I don't feel Niner gets hurt by people reselling these frames on the used market. Some shops will miss out on some sales, but I feel most people shopping on the used market won't buy new bikes from shops anyway. And I don't think Niner is losing money on the discounted frames.
    6. Reselling new warrantied frame is a common practice.


    I am sorry to see people feel I am abusing the system here. It was not my intention.
    You are a Scum Bag, taking advantage of the situation!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug
    WTB broken Jet 9.
    totally agreed.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by S:Drive
    You are a Scum Bag, taking advantage of the situation!
    Taking advantage of a situation where the buyer originally paid $1800 for a frame that has now had two recalls and as a result multiple months out of the saddle? The guy wants out; that is understandable, and this is the best chance to cut his losses.

    Take it easy with the name calling, S-Dive.

  72. #72
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    WTB a non-recalled Jet 9 :-) Is there any available ?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menzo
    WTB a non-recalled Jet 9 :-) Is there any available ?
    Yes, my LBS has several that are outside the recall range. If you are serious PM me, I will pass the info on to you.

  74. #74
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    All you guys that are so happy about not being able to ride crack me up.
    Even funnier to me are you guys that have already been through this twice and seem to like the idea of yet another recall.
    I must be missing something...do you ride your bike or just wax it?
    I just bought my Jet (37 miles ago) and it appears my riding is done until next year.
    I know...everyone will say this is great...you can buy another frame and have two.
    I just spent every penny I had on this bike (which of course can't be riden) and now I get to buy another?? Oh lucky me!!
    Maybe my pockets just aren't deep enough to own a Niner. I mistakenly thought I could get by with one mountain bike and sold my old ride to help pay for this boat anchor.
    Anyone need an Iceman entry? My riding days are over until whenever these guys get the replacement out.

  75. #75
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    jack, i take your frameset. how much have you paid for it?

  76. #76
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    yukonjack63,

    i'm not happy about it either, i'd rather just keep riding my jet too. but the way niner is handling it is great. I don't have the money really either. Well, i though i had money for a cross bike but now i'd rather spend 300 on an air 9 frame. again i'd rather get a cross bike not deal with waiting etc...

    do you have any friends that would let you ride their bike or close shop that has demo/rentals? i'm in a similar boat, wish it were iceman, but i've got a big race coming up too. i'm hoping my air gets here in time to get at least a week on it before the race.

  77. #77
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    Niner, for those interested in a hardtail, any chance that we can get a rigid carbon fork at a discount as well?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    All you guys that are so happy about not being able to ride crack me up...
    Anyone need an Iceman entry? My riding days are over until whenever these guys get the replacement out.
    So lets see... You bought a $1700 frame with a track record of breaking, and are disappointed that they're having a voluntary recall, through which you can gain a bike at a ridiculous discount, up your travel for $0, get $150 in free stuff, or do nothing at all.

    Also, you have a $1700 frame set and don't have $150 (minimum) to gain a new frame? Unless mommy and daddy bought it for you, I fail to see that math, especially when you've got 6 weeks to make your decision.

    To trump all this misfortune that just seems to be voluntarily raining down on you, I would bet that if you were to call Niner up, explain that your 37 mile old frame is slated for Iceman the week after the end of their deadline, they would probably work something out.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowsCast
    So lets see...
    Easy there, Shadow. If you read the recall, Niner of course wants you to cease and desist all riding NOW. There is no way that they will work out an agreement where they state that you may continue to ride the bike; they are already in CYA mode in an attempt to avoid legal and/or CSPC action with the the Jet 9. That being said, the OP can submit a claim 10/30 and ship post race. In no way would/could Niner endorse that, but based on the timeline it is plausible.

    As for your argument about receiving something ($150) for nothing (waiting 6+ months), that period may be nothing for your time or your riding, but for many others that is not the case. How about you give me $1700 now, and in 6 months I will give you $1700 + a gift certificate that is valid to shop only with the items that I will offer you for sale at full MSRP.

  80. #80
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    It's a voluntary recall. I'm not sure what about that is confusing The italicized doing nothing was indicative of the choice to ignore the three choices presented. While you're probably right, "go ride your recalled frame on an endurance race a week after we should be getting it back," is probably not an option, I can't imagine with extenuating circumstances like yukonjack has, a simple phone call would be out of the question.

    If you don't like any of the options, then don't take any of them? It's not like the frames breaking was a big secret until this recall came out. He bought the frame 37 miles ago, and sold all his worldly possessions to afford it, so clearly he thought he was making the right choice. Why that would suddenly change (for the worst) when the manufacturer decides to offer you 3 easy ways to increase the amount of travel/frames/gear on your bike is beyond me.

    I'm not insinuating that 6 months is "nothing" or that $150 is gained with nothing given on the rider's end. I'm simply saying that if you don't want to get a new frame for cheap, increase your travel for free, or wait around, there is a clear fourth option that involve none of those things.

  81. #81
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    Ok, that makes for sense now, Shadow. Sorry for being defensive, but this situation is not as lovely for some vs. others. I am fortunate to be able to take the RIP + Jet option.

  82. #82
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    It's all good, clarity is important. I can completely understand a recall being more like a recall than a give away for some people, but when it's voluntary I can't really understand being upset that it's happening.

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    What a shock. Someone isn't fond of not riding and the loyalists come out flaming.
    Let me clear a few thing up.
    First: I didn't buy a frame. I bought a complete bike. This bike came with a 80mm travel fork. This rules out a RIP.
    Second:A hard tail is out as I have had too much work done on the ankle. This is why I ride full-suspension.
    Third: No, I don't know anyone that would give me a ride to beat daily until mid-November. Even if I did,then what? Back to the couch until next year.
    Fourth: Yes, one LBS told me to stay away from Niner in early summer because of the frame failure problem. I wrote this off as an attempt to sell me a bike they had in stock. After all, why would Jets still be sold if they break?
    After this, I tried to find a Jet at other shops but none were available. I even called Niner a few times to check on availabilty. Nope, none available and the only frame issue (the rockers) had been corrected.( since the recall I've learned of the rear triangle failure)
    Then one day while riding a trail over an hour from home I visited a small shop which had a built Jet for sale. Like an idiot I jumped on it. Now we're up to date.
    Yes, I have called and emailed Niner. No, they don't want these riden. And no, there are no special curcumstances for new bikes.
    The most interesting part of this mess was my call Monday to Niner. I was told that they knew for "quite some time of the problem" but were troubleshooting the cause before the recall. After spending a day getting pissed I emailed Niner and asked why they allowed the dealers to continue selling bikes if they knew they had a problem. Just to be fair, Niner stated in an email response they only knew of the problem for a few weeks.
    Ok,I'm ready, flame away. I must be an idiot but this is worst purchase I've ever made.
    I'm just not willing to step up and drink the koolaid.

  84. #84
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    To be fair, HOW LONG did it take Niner to say that you shouldn't be riding these bikes that may fail? This has been a known problem for a while, yet Niner has just recently said to stop riding them. That concerns me from a safety perspective and what if you ended up seriously injured due to it breaking on a ride? I'll never consider a Niner, not because they won't warrenty the bike, but because they didn't address the problem until just now. At the very least, Niner should be prepared to take a lot of flak on this.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  85. #85
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    O.K to be fair....How many companies have problems with a product and address the issues on an individual basis, as they occur? The old saying " If it ain't broke don't fix it" applies to MOST companies. Then there are the "silent recalls" where the companies never admit there is a problem, but fix things quietly as the customers complain. If they have taken the steps to fix the problems and they continue to occur, than ultimately MOST companies stick it to the customer, never admitting fault. I don't think this is the case with Niner. This is not a perfect world and when a mistake is made, the end result should be customer satisfaction. Now you and I know that you can't please everyone, and some folks will not be happy no matter what is done to rectify the problem. For a company or individuals to step up and take responsibility for their mistakes is a dying trend in the market today. I think we need to give them credit for trying to make the best of a bad situation. My Jet 9 never broke.....but it could have. I knew about the problems that were happening and still rode it. They are at the very least, making the attempt to fix the issue and not sweep it under the rug. For that I commend them. You may or may not agree, just my 2 cents worth.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    What a shock. Someone isn't fond of not riding and the loyalists come out flaming.
    Fourth: Yes, one LBS told me to stay away from Niner in early summer because of the frame failure problem. I wrote this off as an attempt to sell me a bike they had in stock.
    Ok,I'm ready, flame away. I must be an idiot but this is worst purchase I've ever made.
    I'm just not willing to step up and drink the koolaid.
    I'm not sure why you're unable to understand what the word voluntary in voluntary recall means. The clear and easy solution for you is to just ride your bike. An LBS even told you about the issues with Niner beforehand. I'm no Niner fanboy; I just can't believe how much you're e-raging over being in the exact same place you were prior to the recall.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowsCast
    I'm not sure why you're unable to understand what the word voluntary in voluntary recall means. The clear and easy solution for you is to just ride your bike. An LBS even told you about the issues with Niner beforehand. I'm no Niner fanboy; I just can't believe how much you're e-raging over being in the exact same place you were prior to the recall.
    Like I said...let the flaming begin.
    I do agree Niner is calling this recall voluntary.
    I just wish the Niner ads would have included "You should stop riding the frame immediately because a failure could occur at any time."
    That my friend is a deal breaker.
    When the guys that made the bikes say they're unsafe to ride, I listen.
    I guess maybe you have some conflicting data that disputes Niner unsafe claim?
    As far as the e-rage goes...I'm just stating in an online blog of all the crazy places a difference of opinion. How dare me???
    As I said before, I bought what I had been sold about the Jet being a great bike.
    I believed Niner and their dealers claim that the problems had been corrected.
    This of course now leaves me shocked that as soon as my hard earned money was collected, I was told not to ride it.
    I fail to see why I should be delighted by this.

  88. #88
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    I thought I had stated the following in a prior post. It must have been in one of my many emails to Niner.

    I talked to Niner before my purchase about the comment from the former Niner dealer involving the frame problem.
    I was told there had been a problem with the rocker arms and it had been corrected.
    I had the same conversation with the LBS where I purchased. Same comment involving the rocker arms.
    This is part of why I was caught off guard by the recall.

  89. #89
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    Despite the hundreds of things you're trying to say are stacked up against you, it's still a choice to ride, buy, trade up, or wait. No need to spin this "I can't ride anymore!" sob story.

  90. #90
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    You keep insisting it's my option to quit riding my Jet.
    According to Niner:
    'You should stop riding the frame immediately because a failure could occur at any time."
    Seems pretty straight forward to me.
    You seem to be hung up on the word voluntary. To me, this simply means they had not yet been ordered by the courts or the government to issue a recall.
    Do you have some source at Niner telling you these are safe to ride?
    I've had several phone calls as well as emails with Niner and they have not said anything that has lead me to believe these bikes are safe to ride.
    For some reason you seem to feel Niner is just offering us all a great deal out of the kindness of their hearts.
    I believe the more likely reason is they have a huge problem with the Jet.
    Do I believe they sold me a bike knowing the were about to launch a recall? Nope.
    More likely to me, they had been out of inventory all summer and it just didn't occur to them a few frames were still for sale at their dealers.
    Do I believe the shop I purchased at sold me a bike knowing there a recall coming? Nope.
    Infact, they claim the calls they placed to Niner in regard to the frame problem rumors were shot down as false.
    Do I think the LBS should have taken back the bike considering the unusual circumstances? Yep.
    Does any of this change the fact that I just spent 4400.00 on a bike that Niner says DON'T RIDE. Nope.
    I'm curious what your interest is in all this. I think it's obvious what mine is.
    I think anyone that reads what I've posted would get where I'm coming from.
    You've put some effort into straightening me out. Why?
    Are you affiliated somehow with Niner?

  91. #91
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    It sounds like your LBS should give you credit for the Jet9 frame they sold and profited off of, allowing you to purchase a frame that is available now. Your LBS can then take your warranty 2010 Jet9 frame. I think Niner is doing all they can here and it is really up to your LBS to resolve this if you can't wait for the new Jet. Just my .02.
    Last edited by 1-bar; 09-19-2009 at 05:26 PM.
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    I see Niner watches this forum.
    Maybe they would be willing to set the record staighter then they already have.
    How about it Niner? I keep getting told to just keep riding my Jet. And that I'm whining instead of just riding my Jet.
    Although I feel the recall notice spelled this out clearly enough, are these Jets safe to continue riding????
    Is this just some minor little non issue and you guys just wanna give everyone a great deal on a new ride???
    Say the word and I'll gladly shut up and get back on my Jet.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    It sounds like your LBS should give you credit for the Jet9 frame they sold an profited off of and allow you to purchase a frame that is available now. Your LBS can then take your warranty 2010 Jet9 frame. I think Niner is doing all they can here and it is really up to your LBS to resolve this if you can't wait for the new Jet. Just my .02.
    Yep.
    Agreed.
    Take it to the bike shop and request a refund.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    I do agree Niner is calling this recall voluntary.
    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    You keep insisting it's my option to quit riding my Jet.
    These posts are like an hour apart...

  95. #95
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    Check local laws. Most states require the seller to refund your money within 30 days of purchase with no reason at all for the return.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    Yep.
    Agreed.
    Take it to the bike shop and request a refund.
    I did that first.
    Not gonna happen.

    I went to a larger LBS today to inquire about a demo. This is were I normally shop.(they were unable to get a Jet). The guys asked a few questions about my new ride. Knowing the timing of my purchase as well as the recall timing, they said they would have taken it back.

  97. #97
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    [QUOTE=ShadowsCast] I'm Niner fanboy


    Hey this taking things out of context is fun!!

  98. #98
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    If the consumer rules are in your favour, don't request.
    Demand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    If the consumer rules are in your favour, don't request.
    Demand.
    I believe Michigan is 3 days.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    I believe Michigan is 3 days.
    For change of mind maybe.
    Although I am in Australia, I would think that the rules for defect would be far more generous.

  101. #101
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    [QUOTE=yukonjack63]
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowsCast
    I'm Niner fanboy


    Hey this taking things out of context is fun!!
    Sorry Shadow.
    That was childish.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    You keep insisting it's my option to quit riding my Jet.
    According to Niner:
    'You should stop riding the frame immediately because a failure could occur at any time."
    Seems pretty straight forward to me.
    You seem to be hung up on the word voluntary. To me, this simply means they had not yet been ordered by the courts or the government to issue a recall.
    This is correct. A voluntary recall means that the company has voluntarily recalled the product. As opposed to being mandated by a government entity to issue a mandatory recall.

    With that said, you could choose to keep your bike. But, if it breaks after the recall deadline: they won't warrantee it. If it breaks and you are injured, they will not be liable. They are voluntarily recalling the frame because they have found something they believe to be unsafe with the frame. I would like to believe that they are less worried about getting sued, and more worried about their customers being injured. But who can say.

    For me, if they say it could break at any time.... that's enough warning for me.

    Yukonjack63, I agree with you. Your situation sucks, & I would raise hell with the shop that sold you the bike. They don't lose anything by taking back the frame. They can just send it in and sell the new one when they get it.
    My LBS has a vast fleet of jet9's that they rent out. They have all been recalled. I already know they are going to send them in and sell the replacements. They have unfortunately lost alot of faith win Niner's products. I however am a Niner fanboy!

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    For change of mind maybe.
    Although I am in Australia, I would think that the rules for defect would be far more generous.
    Hey TR, is your Jet9 in the recall range. If not do you feel safe riding it. Not that I'm trying to put doubt in your mind, but I'd probably have a small amount or concern about it in certain circumstances. In saying that I often look down at my fork while belting rocks at 40km/hr & wonder just how much stress it can take.

    Note:- We are big Niner fans having 6 Niner hardtails in the family--2 with the rigid carbon fork. Great bikes !!
    Tastes like carbon

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zepinator
    Hey TR, is your Jet9 in the recall range. If not do you feel safe riding it. Not that I'm trying to put doubt in your mind, but I'd probably have a small amount or concern about it in certain circumstances. In saying that I often look down at my fork while belting rocks at 40km/hr & wonder just how much stress it can take.

    Note:- We are big Niner fans having 6 Niner hardtails in the family--2 with the rigid carbon fork. Great bikes !!

    Yep.
    And I pulled mine apart and hung up the frame the day after.
    Pick up a discount Sir from Pete this week then have to wait for a matching gold carbon fork.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zepinator
    Hey TR, is your Jet9 in the recall range. If not do you feel safe riding it. Not that I'm trying to put doubt in your mind, but I'd probably have a small amount or concern about it in certain circumstances. In saying that I often look down at my fork while belting rocks at 40km/hr & wonder just how much stress it can take.

    Note:- We are big Niner fans having 6 Niner hardtails in the family--2 with the rigid carbon fork. Great bikes !!

    I may be mistaken but, one of my calls with Niner left me with the impression that all Jets are in the recall.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by crapscoop

    For me, if they say it could break at any time.... that's enough warning for me.

    Yukonjack63, I agree with you. Your situation sucks, & I would raise hell with the shop that sold you the bike. They don't lose anything by taking back the frame. They can just send it in and sell the new one when they get it.
    My LBS has a vast fleet of jet9's that they rent out. They have all been recalled. I already know they are going to send them in and sell the replacements. They have unfortunately lost alot of faith win Niner's products. I however am a Niner fanboy!

    I agree, due to the unusual circumstances and timing of my purchase ,the LBS or maybe even Niner should have been willing to take back either the frame or, as it's all still new, the entire bike. Believe me, I've asked both parties involved.
    As it stands, the LBS currently has my ride and awaits some sellable frame from Niner
    to build up with my components and sell in an effort to recover some of my investment and allow me to purchase another bike.
    Will this happen this year or next ? Who knows.
    I'm more than will to admit this story like any other, has more too it then included in my posts here. I've tried to limit my comments to the position the recall has placed me in.
    That said, I've held nothing back from Niner or the LBS. I share your LBS's position.

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    Hijack

    although I support your opinion, I think there's no perfect world, so we have to deal with it.

    My frame is in the range. Yesterday my team had a 100 mile epic ride with 10.000 feet altimeter change on plan - and I take part - with my Jet, because it was the perfect bike for this kind of riding. I'm at 185 lbs and beat the hell out of my Jet on rock gardens and 3 feet jumps. It's still fine. So I think, the frame can brake under extreme circumstances and very heavy rider, but it is not easy to failure.

    So if I were in your position, I would ride my Jet until a replacement frame is available.

    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    --8<--
    First: I didn't buy a frame. I bought a complete bike. This bike came with a 80mm travel fork. This rules out a RIP.
    Assuming your fork is a RS or a Fox, you can convert it easily to 100 or 120 mm, depending on model. This rules in the rip, although it is another bike category.
    happy trails
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  108. #108
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    Well I am a happy camper. When I saw the new Niner Jet and all the improvements, I was wishing there was some cheap easy way to upgrade my frame to the new one. 2 weeks later, I can do it for free and on top of that get a smokin' deal on a Sir 9 to ride in the meantime. I have most of the parts I need to build up the Sir9 and save all the Jet 9 parts for the new bike.

    I need:
    fork (thinking rigid and might even spring for the Niner Carbon one)
    crank (already have bb if crank is Shimano)
    thumb shifters
    front der
    rear der

    I have everything else on the shelf. I am already crusing ebay for used parts.

  109. #109
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    Hi Red,

    I understand 100 percent where you're coming from. Your ride yesterday alone,however, was triple the saddle time I've had on my Jet. Time builds confidence and I'm not there yet.
    Between the posts in this forum telling me this is a known frame problem and Niner saying don't ride these bikes, I'm not gonna get there. I"m a little jealous of your confidence. I had that feeling in my old ride.
    Thx for the advice.

  110. #110
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    Funny, just FYI, I had just built up another replacement Jet 9 frame (2nd warranty) , and had one ride on it... To make a long story short, had a friend coming into town to do some rides....And got the recall notice the night before he was coming up....Did three rides and saw a crack develop slowly over those three rides at the upper rear suspension pivot area... IT was slow and I just stopped riding the bike and packed it up after seeing the crack get bigger..... I guess I am sayng, the failure wasn't anyting catastrophic.....Just developed slowy, but I was paying attention to that area of the bike.. I honestly wouldnt be afraid and have not heard of anyone having any crashes, etc. as a resut.....

    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    Hi Red,

    I understand 100 percent where you're coming from. Your ride yesterday alone,however, was triple the saddle time I've had on my Jet. Time builds confidence and I'm not there yet.
    Between the posts in this forum telling me this is a known frame problem and Niner saying don't ride these bikes, I'm not gonna get there. I"m a little jealous of your confidence. I had that feeling in my old ride.
    Thx for the advice.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    It sounds like your LBS should give you credit for the Jet9 frame they sold and profited off of, allowing you to purchase a frame that is available now. Your LBS can then take your warranty 2010 Jet9 frame. I think Niner is doing all they can here and it is really up to your LBS to resolve this if you can't wait for the new Jet. Just my .02.
    The obligation for warranty is solely the responsability of the manufacturer (Niner) and the LBS has zero (legal) obligation to take a used frame back.

    With this said, the LBS is in a bad spot here. Niner screwed THEM not the end user as the end used was not Niners customer, the shop was/is. Sucks to be the customer and put in this situation. Was th ecustomer not aware of the trend of failures? I was and I did not buy a Niner because of this... also, was the LBS not aware of this as well?

    The Bike shop is going into the slow season and they most likely don't have the cash to tie up for six+ months while Niner gets new frames made either.

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    STT Guy just hit the nail on the head. I guess I've just become used to LBSs and manufacturers acting as one entity. Truefully, the LBS is in a tight spot over this. I'm sure I'm not the only Jet sale they have to deal with. If you switch sides and look at it from the shops perspective, how many future hard tail sales did they just get screwed out of by Niner with this direct to the consumer sale? I'll bet there's quite a few pissed of dealers right now. I also agree about the slow season comment. Here in Michigan bike sales are about to fall way off until spring.

    And no, obviously I didn't know these were prone to failure. The only info I had involved the corrected rocker issue. As far as the LBS goes, their calls to Niner in regard to the rumors were dismissed as baseless.

  113. #113
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    Some friends own a shop which is a niner dealer, they were the first authorized niner dealer in canada as it happens. They're very big believers in the 29 inch format. All the other brands they carry for mountain bikes have 29er models. Both owners have had Niner models specifically as their own personal bikes. Their staff all have Niner's and their race team is all on Niners. And now both have had their frames recalled after multiple problems and both experienced them firsthand. One went thru the RIP nonsense, the other is now a victim of the JET nonsense. Not to mention all the customers they've sold on these things who have also been victims of Niner's lack of R&D. It seems that Niner uses the customer base to find out they're under-designing the frames given the almost annual problems. Its not unusual for a brand to have the odd design glitch now and then (Rocky Mountain's ETSX for example, 3 redesigns, finally they admitted to themselves it was just a bad design and they replaced it outright with a new model, the Altitude) which just never should have gone from paper drawing to production in the first place. But other than Ellsworth, I can't think of any brand that has had as many design problems affecting as many models they produce in as short a period of time in the past twenty years.

    I feel bad for them, they have to always explain to their clients what is up with their niner models being recalled. They also have to stop riding their own bikes themselves. This is probably a common theme at every Niner dealer where the staff/owners of the dealership themselves are also on Niners. I suspect quite a few will be dropping the brand soon. Its the old axiom... fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me. I do know that when I get my ownl store open in the next year or so, I'm not even going to visit the Niner booth at the tradeshows when I go shopping for brands to carry. I'd just rather not deal with a brand who's reputation is already essentially mud.

    Edit: PS... I was considering a Niner up until the RIP failures but I figured maybe a hardtail... then Jet linkage failures cinched it as not a brand to bother with. Not to mention I've seen thanks to the friends with the niner dealership, several cracked niner hardtail frames in rather unusual places (the middle of the dropout, and the seattube above/around the top of the weld at the toptube juncture, so the tube section where the clamp goes is going to totally shear off). I'm used to seeing cracks near pivot point welds from years of Rocky Mountain ETSX returns at a shop I wrenched at, and the elements/slayers with the design flaw of the chainstay assembly (they crack forwards of the weld at the dropout... it was a poorly supported zone).
    Last edited by DeeEight; 09-21-2009 at 02:13 PM.
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  114. #114
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    It seems that when folks are finished "blowing Niner" here for the great customer service maybe they should ask "why is Niner a brand that has so many QC problems?"

    Niner seems to be living on the edge of the weight/strength/druability threshold and it seems that they go over too often for whatever reason.. (engineering/materials/manufacturing process). In the last year I have personally seen more cracked Niner frames than all other brands of frames combined. I'lll say that again... In the last year I have seen more cracked Niner frames than all other brands combined. My stomping grounds is SW Utah and my LBS's sell Trek, Turner, Kona, Intense, Pivot. Specialized, Ibis and a couple of others.. none sell Niner so there is not a disproportionalte amount of Niners on our trails..

    Niner has screwed their dealer network in this fiasco (lets see how this turns out for them.. I bet the Niner booth at Interbike is at the very least "interesting" if not openly hostile at times), majorly inconvieneced the owners of more than one model via manufacturing and design defects and everyone is "Yea Team.. way to step up!!!"

    How about a call on the clue phone for Niner....

    Ring....Ring....... Hello Niner.....? How about making bikes right the first time and stop allowing your customers to be the beta test mules.

    This "awesome customer service" in a response to a very seriouse failure problem that has been known to everyone (except Niner they claim) for quite some time.

    I have no horse in this race other than I was strongly considering a Niner about six months ago.
    Last edited by STT GUY; 09-21-2009 at 07:23 AM.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrinln
    Check local laws. Most states require the seller to refund your money within 30 days of purchase with no reason at all for the return.
    Where do you live? I know of no state that requires a retailer to take a used bike back? Seriously, I'm a retailer (not bikes) and have never heard of such laws.

  116. #116
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    In defense of the pro-Niner crowd, STT's first sentence 2 posts up is a little harsh. I'm not willing to fault anyone for liking their bike. We're all in this to have fun and enjoy the outdoors.
    That said, there have been alot of posts from both sides of the fence mentioning this "known frame problem". Some of the pro-Niner posters also mention Niners great CS. Again, I'm delighted you guys love your bike. I do ,however,wonder what you guys think of the claim by Niner that they didn't know about this "known frame problem". I emailed Niner asking about this "known problem" thinking if anyone knew about it the guys replacing broken frames would. The response was "There was only about 2 weeks between the time we became aware of the issue and the beginning of the recall. This time was spent getting ready for the recall, building the website to handle all the returns." Either they knew and allowed the frames to still be sold or this"known frame problem" you guys have mentioned somehow went completely unnoticed by Niner. I fail to see how the latter is possible.
    Last edited by yukonjack63; 09-21-2009 at 09:50 AM.

  117. #117
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    As I have asked previously in this thread, two months ago in the cracked Jet thread, and 12 months ago in the RIP v1.0 thread:

    NINER, HAVE YOU INVOLVED THE CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION?

    You have now had one significant design flaw that was not recalled but was addressed in subsequent models (RIP v1.0), and two recalls related to once again poor design/materials/production with the Jet. It is my understanding that the CPSC should be involved in all such recall matters, and I have seen no evidence of this. The transparency is lacking. Look at Salsa (stem) and Cannondale (lefty, Scalpel); they have gone through the CPSC for their recent recalls, and consumers are now able to search the online database to better understand these recalls and the procedures done to correct these problems.. YOUR RECALL IS NOT EVEN LISTED ON THE FRONT PAGE OF NINERBIKES.COM, but we do get pretty pictures of your new carbon hardtail.

    Look at how Cannondale has recalled the Scalpel and the resultant information that consumers can obtain:

    http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml08/08534.html

    We demand to know how many units are involved, who manufactured the units, what the specific hazards are, how many incidents and/or injuries you have had, location of manufacturing, remedy, and consumer contact information.

    You have great customer service for poor quality frames. Yes, fanboys, the hardtails are fine. Apparently anyone can design a hardtail, but it takes a bit more knowledge and R&D for suspension frames.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    In defense of the pro-Niner crowd, STT's first sentence 2 posts up is a little harsh. I'm not willing to fault anyone for liking their bike. We're all in this to have fun and enjoy the outdoors.
    That said, there have been alot of posts from both sides of the fence mentioning this "known frame problem". Some of the pro-Niner posters also mention Niners great CS. Again, I'm delighted you guys love your bike. I do ,however,wonder what you guys think of the claim by Niner that they didn't know about this "known frame problem". I emailed Niner asking about this "known problem" thinking if anyone knew about it the guys replacing broken frames would. The response was "There was only about 2 weeks between the time we became aware of the issue and the beginning of the recall. This time was spent getting ready for the recall, building the website to handle all the returns." Either they knew and allowed the frames to still be sold or this"known frame problem" you guys have mentioned somehow went completely unnoticed by Niner. I fail to see how the latter is possible.
    That was an attention grabber and meant to be as outragous as some of the mindless cheerleading here.

    Basically riders get to

    A) Get another Niner model (well common sense would hint that if they wanted a different model..... that's right, they would have bought that model in the first place,

    B) A guy/gal without a quiver with an affected frame who still wants to ride his/her original model of choice (which I can only think they bought for a reason, not just randomly) has to go bikeless for a period (six plus mnths) that Niner will not commit too... How good customer service?

    C) Buy another Niner at a deeply discounted rate, sell it into the (most likely flooded) secondary market and take the proceeds and buy a different brand and end thier Niner experience once and for all.

    BTW the comment about Niner hardtails being great..... In one week last spring, I saw two broken Niner HT's on Gooseberry. One was that of a guide from a certain (very) prominant guide company. They both broke right in front of the drop outs in the heat affected zone(s).

    Niner monitors these forums... and tracks warranty claims submissions/calls from dealers. For them to say they had no idea about this is insulting to thier customer base and dealer network.

    Who here has an affected frame, no back up bike and thinks that Niners customer service rocks?????? (and you'll have plenty of time to ponder this as ypu take up hiking as your new hobby)

    Who here would rather have had a frame that didn't break or need to be recalled?????

    I think hamburger B is gonna win this one big.

  119. #119
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    Why don't you guys go whine somewhere else. Niner doesn't have to involve the CPSC because probably nobody has been injured. You guys don't know much about the biking industry. Trek (the road bike part) has had so many frame failures in the early years of carbon it is mind boggling. 3 out of the first 4 Trek Madons sold by our dealer cracked within 6 months and had to be replaced by Trek. Did Trek do a voluntary recall? No. Instead they made you wait until your bike cracked (usually at the beginning of riding season for most) and then they made you wait 6 months for the replacement frame with no bike to ride in the meantime. They even made next years models ahead of the replacement frames in their factory production runs to further insult the customer. These were road bikes that cost around $6000.

    That is the general level of customer service in the bike industry. Wait for a failure and then make the customer wait months for a replacement. Frame failures almost never result in injuries because they are usually discovered before complete mayhem occurs.

    My guess is that all these failures were un-catastrophic due to the nature of the failure mode of aluminum. The CPSC won't get involved in these kind of problems and didn't get involved in Treks case. It would be far cheaper and easier for Niner to go the Trek route and wait until a customer had a failure and then make the customer wait for a replacement frame. Instead Niner is going to all this unprecedented trouble to serve their customers as well as they can under the circumstances.

    Frame cracking has been a problem for all bike manufacturers over the years in the road world and is probably worse in the MTB world. Lightspeed has had many problems with Ti bikes, Many besides Trek have had many problems with CF bikes and many aluminum and steel bikes have cracked over the years. Niner also tends to have some of the most enthusiastic customers so they are probably harder on bikes. The reason Niner is telling you to quit riding is purely a liability problem, but I have not stopped riding mine but I do check for cracks after every ride. But from a legal point of view, they have to tell you to quit riding them.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    We demand to know how many units are involved,blah blah blah
    You're kidding right?
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  121. #121
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    My info is that Niner does have to involve the CPSC.
    It also my understanding the the CPSC is now involved.
    As far as the cost goes,I've been told the manufacurer not Niner is on the hook for the costs. The reduced price frame offer,however, may be Niners problem. Of course, it could also be a quick was to raise cash for the redesigned Jet.

  122. #122
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    People who claim not to have known of the issues with the Jet have obviously never gotten over to the Niner forum on this very website.
    Plenty of info there.
    I am still happy with the offer of a heavily discounted hartail and my 2010 Jet.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    People who claim not to have known of the issues with the Jet have obviously never gotten over to the Niner forum on this very website.
    Plenty of info there.
    I am still happy with the offer of a heavily discounted hartail and my 2010 Jet.

    Seems that the management at Niner would have the public and thier dealer network beleive that they knew nothing of it... Ya.. ya.. that's the story.

  124. #124
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    Seems weird

    I'm not an engineer but the Jet 9 frame just looks underbuilt to me, but regardless Niner is doing the right thing to save their brand. You lose your brand and people quit buying your product and you are sunk as a company. It is all about damage control at this point. I bet they R&D these products more extensively in the future.

    Jaybo

  125. #125
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    Something just came to mind....

    I wonder if Niner is giving these dealers a cut of the kick ass deal? Niner is diluting the dealers market. Going manufacturer direct on current product and circumventing the dealer network is not something that motivates dealers.

    Any dealers want to chime in?

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    People who claim not to have known of the issues with the Jet have obviously never gotten over to the Niner forum on this very website.
    Plenty of info there.
    I am still happy with the offer of a heavily discounted hartail and my 2010 Jet.

    Just curious....by people, do you mean Niner? Or at least include Niner? Because thats exactly what they claim.
    That said, I'm glad you're happy. Enjoy your ride.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    People who claim not to have known of the issues with the Jet have obviously never gotten over to the Niner forum on this very website. Plenty of info there. I am still happy with the offer of a heavily discounted hartail and my 2010 Jet.
    Like Yukon just said, not even NINER claims to have known about this problem when people were inquiring about these issues 2-3 weeks ago. How can we, the consumer, be expected to know more about the produce than the company? Was Niner not telling the whole truth? They sure were silent on the "broken Jet" threads, yet were quite forthcoming with their new carbon beauty.

  128. #128
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    Testing...Testing...Hello

    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    Like Yukon just said, not even NINER claims to have known about this problem when people were inquiring about these issues 2-3 weeks ago. How can we, the consumer, be expected to know more about the produce than the company? Was Niner not telling the whole truth? They sure were silent on the "broken Jet" threads, yet were quite forthcoming with their new carbon beauty.
    Niner basically stated they were waiting for the results from their testing. Once these came back, they sent out the recall information.

    I saw many instances when Niner posted on broken frame threads....that isn't being silent.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  129. #129
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    And I am saying that buyers who who post on MTBR claiming that they did not know about the issues are kidding themselves.
    Whether Niner chimed in agreeing that there was a problem or not is irrelevant.
    Circumstantial evidence would easily say that there had been an issue.
    There is a whole thread dedicated to it.

  130. #130
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    TR,
    No, I'm not kidding myself. As you can see,I just joined this forum after finding it last week when I googled Niner Jet 9 recall.
    After looking at the broken frame forum I see this looks like it was a known issue to most. Not just to the customers that went there but, Niner as well. You seem really worried about what I knew but oddly enough completely unconcerned about what Niner knew and how long they knew it. It is ,however,your right to remain a satisfied customer and I'll honor that. As I've already stated in an earlier post, for many Niner customers this is a blessing. Most seem to be very happy at the recall options. In my case however, I just bought my ride. 37 miles ago to be exact. This recall is not a great opportunity for the few in my position. I thought I saw a few posts made by you in the broken Jet forum in which you sounded a little unhappy. Based on those posts I wonder how delighted you or anyone else for that matter in this forum would feel to be in my position. Remember, I haven't even had the chance to bond with my Jet.
    As I said before, I'm happy your content. Have a good ride.

  131. #131
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    Okay...I think we get it

    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    TR,
    No, I'm not kidding myself. As you can see,I just joined this forum after finding it last week when I googled Niner Jet 9 recall.
    After looking at the broken frame forum I see this looks like it was a known issue to most. Not just to the customers that went there but, Niner as well. You seem really worried about what I knew but oddly enough completely unconcerned about what Niner knew and how long they knew it. It is ,however,your right to remain a satisfied customer and I'll honor that. As I've already stated in an earlier post, for many Niner customers this is a blessing. Most seem to be very happy at the recall options. In my case however, I just bought my ride. 37 miles ago to be exact. This recall is not a great opportunity for the few in my position. I thought I saw a few posts made by you in the broken Jet forum in which you sounded a little unhappy. Based on those posts I wonder how delighted you or anyone else for that matter in this forum would feel to be in my position. Remember, I haven't even had the chance to bond with my Jet.
    As I said before, I'm happy your content. Have a good ride.
    I guess you are one of those folks who ALWAYS follows the speed limit. You ALWAYS change your car oil at 3000 miles. You ALWAYS follow the maintenance schedule for your car. You ALWAYS do things to the 'nth degree. I respect it.

    Move on though. Niner could have done like Fisher and handle one frame at a time, look up Fissure failures...see how many of those there are. Or like Ellsworth and redesigned the rear end and not honor the warranty because it was the old design. Or perhaps like Inbred on their steel frames and change to a beefiier toptube because it was buckling on some of the older frames. Yet not one of these companies has made a recall.

    Only company that made a remote attempt like this was U-Lock when they replaced their old locks with pen-proof locks. They replaced my 10+ year ld locks with new ones.

    Niner is doing the same thing now. GREAT! I will ride my bike until the shipping label arrives in my inbox. Just because Niner's metal testing confirmed this problem does not suddenly mean all these frames will break within the next hour, week, or month.

    Ride your frame if you want to. We all know your regrettable situation. You have made us all painfully aware of it. Go buy a Fisher....see how they handle frame issues. It will shed light on what a tremondous customer service act Niner is doing.

    Nothing is perfect, but daNG this must be close to it.

    I too am upset because I will not have my Jet 9 frame when it is gone. I will be upset because one of the best frames I've ridden since my Turner Burner will not be in my hands for a few months. Still, I know I will get something improved in the long run.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

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    Interestingly enough, my old ride was a GF. I rode it for 7 years and guess what? You're right. No recall. Someone else is riding it now and most like will for a very long time. It just didn't work the same with me and my new Niner. Honestly though,we're getting off this forums subject. If I remember correctly this is about the Niner Jet 9 recall. This topic is exactly the topic I've posted about. I feel I've been polite and direct.Not all in this forum can say this. Am I looking to sway the loyals? Nope. Will my problem change with these posts? Nope.Am I pissed about buying a new ride that has to to broken down and returned for something else right after being paid for? Hell yes. Is this the correct forum to post issues with the recall? Seems like it to me considering the topic title. Maybe you guys should see if you could get the thread name changed to "All praise to Niner Amen". As I said before, anyone wanna jump into my shoes, mail me a check and I'll ship this great situation your way.

  133. #133
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    Yes it is about the recall.....

    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    Interestingly enough, my old ride was a GF. I rode it for 7 years and guess what? You're right. No recall. Someone else is riding it now and most like will for a very long time. It just didn't work the same with me and my new Niner. Honestly though,we're getting off this forums subject. If I remember correctly this is about the Niner Jet 9 recall. This topic is exactly the topic I've posted about. I feel I've been polite and direct.Not all in this forum can say this. Am I looking to sway the loyals? Nope. Will my problem change with these posts? Nope.Am I pissed about buying a new ride that has to to broken down and returned for something else right after being paid for? Hell yes. Is this the correct forum to post issues with the recall? Seems like it to me considering the topic title. Maybe you guys should see if you could get the thread name changed to "All praise to Niner Amen". As I said before, anyone wanna jump into my shoes, mail me a check and I'll ship this great situation your way.
    Yes, this thread is about the recall. How is your repeated regrettable situation postings dealing with that? Call Niner, that might be more productive.

    I,nor anyone that I remember, has called yours a "great situation". So this "polite" condescending tone you are using is not appropriate on your part, also.

    I am happy to read your GF rode great, but use Google and see how the Fissure name came to be.

    Yes, in an ideal situation everyone would have a new frame built up before the old frame had to go back. I am confident you know this is not an ideal world.

    Niner is trying to rectify this. I am giving them credit for this. No cheerleading.

    Your LBS seems to not care one bit. How have they offered to help? I don't like to pay LBS prices, so I do most of my bike shopping online. Yet, I keep pretty close contact with my LBS owner. The last race we did together as a team. He explained to me between laps that all bike shops have a line of credit with their distributor. Usually they have items up to 30 days interest free. Some shops, having a good relationship that has been long established, can go 6 months or longer. I am imagine your LBS can work something out while everyone figures this out.

    Again, look for a solution.

    Best wishes
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni
    Only company that made a remote attempt like this was U-Lock when they replaced their old locks with pen-proof locks. They replaced my 10+ year ld locks with new ones.
    You mean kryptonite who even though they'd known that cylinder locks could be defeated by a simple plastic pen for a LONG time, got caught with their pants down basically when a video of that method went viral online? That's nothing though in the world of locks. There was a lock expert at the canadian bike tradeshow last week in montreal who just by tapping a small hammer onto the cylinder bar of a OnGuard brand's U-locks, was knocking the pins inside out of place and dropping the lock bars onto the counter top. In about 10 seconds he could defeat pretty much every U-lock on the market. I'm sure he'll be doing the same demo at Interbike. I didn't go to the tradeshow but I bet it was probably Marc Weber Tobias. He's the guy who revealed the kryptonite secret flaw. He has also popped a medeco high security lock (the kind used by FBI/CIA/NSA/Embassies etc, the kind that supposedly can't be picked in less than 15 mins, the GOLD standard of locks) in as little as 7 seconds.

    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/...urrentPage=all

    And a quote from that article related to this Niner business....

    <i>"Do I like to make trouble? Of course, I'm a lawyer!" Tobias says. "Ask yourself, why does a lawyer pick locks? The answer is liability. A lot of companies are arrogant and greedy and stupid bullies who put people at risk. They deserve to have a Marc Weber Tobias problem!" </i>

    Niner is one of those companies... they're arrogant and greedy and putting people at risk selling these flawed frame designs year after year and its simply blind luck that there hasn't been a serious injury yet reported to the CPSC.
    Last edited by DeeEight; 09-21-2009 at 10:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni
    Yes, this thread is about the recall. How is your repeated regrettable situation postings dealing with that? Call Niner, that might be more productive.

    I,nor anyone that I remember, has called yours a "great situation". So this "polite" condescending tone you are using is not appropriate on your part, also.

    I am happy to read your GF rode great, but use Google and see how the Fissure name came to be.

    Yes, in an ideal situation everyone would have a new frame built up before the old frame had to go back. I am confident you know this is not an ideal world.

    Niner is trying to rectify this. I am giving them credit for this. No cheerleading.

    Your LBS seems to not care one bit. How have they offered to help? I don't like to pay LBS prices, so I do most of my bike shopping online. Yet, I keep pretty close contact with my LBS owner. The last race we did together as a team. He explained to me between laps that all bike shops have a line of credit with their distributor. Usually they have items up to 30 days interest free. Some shops, having a good relationship that has been long established, can go 6 months or longer. I am imagine your LBS can work something out while everyone figures this out.

    Again, look for a solution.

    Best wishes
    The "polite" condescending tone comment may be viewed as hypocritical considering your prior post.
    That said, I have contacted Niner. Obviously, that hasn't gotten anywhere. As far as the LBS goes, they don't have the funds to do anything other than one of the recall options. As far as this interest free line of credit goes, that would be something between Niner and the LBS to workout and it doesn't appear to be something under consideration..
    I've believe I've also given Niner credit for their recall options. As I've repeatly stated,this is a win-win for most. The timing of it all just sucked, however, for me. I believe there were a couple of quick solutions for my situation but here we still are.
    The only recourse I have is to build this up as a RIP. Someday it will be built with a goal of selling unriden to recoupe some of my cash. I'm going option 2. I kicked around option 1 but considering the position this recall has already placed me as well as Niner in, I'm not sure I wanna gamble that Niner will still be around next year. I don't envy Niners position of starting 2010 owing so many frames that are not going to generate any revenue.
    Have a good ride.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni
    Yes, this thread is about the recall. How is your repeated regrettable situation postings dealing with that? Call Niner, that might be more productive.

    I,nor anyone that I remember, has called yours a "great situation". So this "polite" condescending tone you are using is not appropriate on your part, also.

    I am happy to read your GF rode great, but use Google and see how the Fissure name came to be.

    Yes, in an ideal situation everyone would have a new frame built up before the old frame had to go back. I am confident you know this is not an ideal world.

    Niner is trying to rectify this. I am giving them credit for this. No cheerleading.

    Your LBS seems to not care one bit. How have they offered to help? I don't like to pay LBS prices, so I do most of my bike shopping online. Yet, I keep pretty close contact with my LBS owner. The last race we did together as a team. He explained to me between laps that all bike shops have a line of credit with their distributor. Usually they have items up to 30 days interest free. Some shops, having a good relationship that has been long established, can go 6 months or longer. I am imagine your LBS can work something out while everyone figures this out.

    Again, look for a solution.

    Best wishes
    Most small frame/bike makers do not offer terms except on demo product and then it might be 60 days and a demo discount for dealers in good standing. Simply put, their cashflow does not allow it. Remember, the frame fab shop in China or Taiwan gets paid CIF when the frames ship.

    I doubt Niner can afford free flooring for thier dealer network and distributors abroad. That's a lot of credit in a (still) very tight credit market, I mean hell, Harley Davidson just paid 15% for money.

    Most multi-line LBS's I know (and I know three very well) pay for bikes when they are shipped from the distributor/manufacturer or might get net-30.

    I know one who have a line of credit with a local bank or credit union but "floorplans" are rare. Trek and Specialized offer it TTBOMK and maybe one or two others but it is offered through someone like GE Capital, BCG, Dutche Bank.. etc...

    From a businessmans perspective Niner is trying like hell to work this out and the deck is not stacked in their favor.

    They are a small business with a history of product defects/flaws/excess warranty claims
    They are ging to experience a cash-flow problem. They have to pay for the replacement frames... hence the killer deals on other frames (in-stock and paid for..) to free up working capital to pay for the replacements.
    I can only imagine that they will suffer a net loss of dealers... The reality is that some are tired of dealing with th customer service issues and the advantages of the brand are overshadowed by the liability.

    I hope thay make it, I hate to see folks lose jobs. However ultimately it will be the public and thier dealer network (and maybe a friendly banker or angel investor) who dictate if they survive or not.

    I wish them luck.

  137. #137
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    It is the Distributor.....

    I imagine most bike shops deal with distributors....BTI and Hawely are two larger ones that come to mind. I am not certain who Niner uses, but a LBS, or an online retailer, would acquire most all merchandise through the distributor. Can you imagine Niner dealing with 5000 LBS...makes no sense.

    That is who the LBS deals with. I am certain in this age of credit, even with the crunch, they have a line of credit with that distributor. That was what I was referring to when I mentioned the zero interest for 3-6 months or more that shops use. It just seems from an outsiders view that this LBS is not helpful.

    Again, best wishes.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni
    I imagine most bike shops deal with distributors....BTI and Hawely are two larger ones that come to mind. I am not certain who Niner uses, but a LBS, or an online retailer, would acquire most all merchandise through the distributor. Can you imagine Niner dealing with 5000 LBS...makes no sense.
    A few bikes are sold through distributor networks (i.e. Salsa, Surly, BMC = QBP; Cinelli, Pake, Soma, Commencal = BTI; Redline = Seattle Bike; Origin 8 = J&B); however, a vast majority of the bikes out there at real LBS are through direct LBS - Manufacturer dealer agreements: Cannondale, Specialized, Trek/GF, Giant, NINER, Moots, Indy Fab... That being said, lines of credit still exist between the Manufacturer and the LBS, but not to the degree to which credit exists between the LBS and the large distributors.

  139. #139
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    In canada, pretty much every LBS deals with a distributor if its not a canadian brand (LBS's get Norco direct from Norco, Rocky Mountain direct from procycle, but GT even though they're canadian owned, has a distributor in canada for their bikes). In the usa it might be different in that most american brands deal LBS direct unless they happen to be owned by a distributor (as QBP owns both Salsa and Surly for example) or their is some sort of exclusive distribution agreement. European brands however are dealt thru distributors (hence QBP carrying BMC, which is a swiss brand). Niner as I understand it deals direct to the dealers. I laughed at the 5000 dealers comment. It would be a miracle if Niner ever even made it to 500 dealers worldwide. Hell I doubt Specialized, Trek, or Giant have 5000 dealers apiece. Maybe 5000 combined...

    But regardless of the channel the LBS gets the product from, whether or not they get credit terms from distributors or manufacturers... most aren't going to want to have money tied up in inventory they cannot possibly sell to go around accepting niner frame returns from customers who cannot ride their bikes due to the recall.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    Has anyone moved beyond the 1st step of this recall? If so, how far along are you? I've entered my info and have yet to hear anything back from Niner. Just trying to get a feel for how long of a process this is going to be. My sales window is rapidly closing here in Michigan.
    I just went through a recall on my comps graphics card. They took my mastercard number as backup and my new video card arrived 3 days later. I had 15 days to return the old card or my mastercard would have been billed. Nice and simple.

  141. #141
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    Someone over on the Niner bikes forum said that he has had confirmation of shipping for his discount frame.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    Has anyone moved beyond the 1st step of this recall? If so, how far along are you? I've entered my info and have yet to hear anything back from Niner. Just trying to get a feel for how long of a process this is going to be. My sales window is rapidly closing here in Michigan.
    I just went through a recall on my comps graphics card. They took my mastercard number as backup and my new video card arrived 3 days later. I had 15 days to return the old card or my mastercard would have been billed. Nice and simple.
    My Jet was picked up by UPS yesterday.

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    Thx unsub1. Can I ask when you filed your claim? Did they have you remove your rockers and shock or just ship intact? So you send back ship your Jet, they receive it, then they ship whatever option you picked?
    Thx for the help

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    ... In my case however, I just bought my ride. 37 miles ago to be exact. This recall is not a great opportunity for the few in my position.
    Sounds just like bad timing on your part. Relax.

    Like others said before, frames from other manufacturers have had trouble as well. The Fisher carbon frames for example. Or how about Scott, or Felt. It is not just Niner.
    Actually I think, Niner handles the whole thing very professional and I've no problem buying another frame from them.

    The fact is stuff like this happens, that's why most of us have more than one bike in the garage.
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  145. #145
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    I got my Air 9 today, from the Norwegian Distributor as he had my size in stock. Case 1390.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiderInTraining
    Sounds just like bad timing on your part. Relax.

    Like others said before, frames from other manufacturers have had trouble as well. The Fisher carbon frames for example. Or how about Scott, or Felt. It is not just Niner.
    Actually I think, Niner handles the whole thing very professional and I've no problem buying another frame from them.

    The fact is stuff like this happens, that's why most of us have more than one bike in the garage.
    I agree 100%. I do need to relax. I usually work crap out in the woods. Oh, well, nothin another 4 grand wont cure.
    You're also right about everyones bikes breaking. You gotta admit though, 6 month minimum for the new Jet is quite a wait. Expecially when you look at how quickly they got the Air 9 Carbon to market. I would think because the geometry is a given, a redesigned Jet could be done quicker then a new design.
    Oh almost forgot, I'll give you more like 200% right on my timing.

  147. #147
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    Just a FYI. Just got my card charged and new Large Ano Licorice Rip9 being shipped today per phone conversation with Frank in warranty dept. Very nice and informative. Told me that the Fox forks with tapered steer tubes were sold to dealers only per some agreement with Fox. I would guess your LBS will be able to get one for you.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    Thx unsub1. Can I ask when you filed your claim? Did they have you remove your rockers and shock or just ship intact? So you send back ship your Jet, they receive it, then they ship whatever option you picked?
    Thx for the help
    Filed mine a week ago. Boxed it intact in original Niner packaging and they'll ship my Rip whenever they get mine. Can't wait.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsub1
    Filed mine a week ago. Boxed it intact in original Niner packaging and they'll ship my Rip whenever they get mine. Can't wait.

    Thx man. Sounds like I better get off my arse and get get this process started.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    Thx man. Sounds like I better get off my arse and get get this process started.
    Yeah, I keep thinking that Interbike can't be helping but they're moving along pretty quickly.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukonjack63
    You gotta admit though, 6 month minimum for the new Jet is quite a wait. Expecially when you look at how quickly they got the Air 9 Carbon to market. I would think because the geometry is a given, a redesigned Jet could be done quicker then a new design.
    Yep, I agree 6 month seems awfully long. Then again, I've no idea how long something like this usually takes. You would think, that they were working on an update for the Jet anyway and that the recall just made things move a little faster than planned. But as for the production time, I've no clue.

    Same with the Air 9 Carbon... I've no idea how long they actually worked on the design and it's not on the market yet. As far as I know, they haven't even announced a price yet. It's also possible that it will be released a little later than planned to make sure the design is right to avoid another recall.

    So many questions... I just hope you have another bike that you can ride before the replacement arrives. One thing is sure though, you can bet your behind on it that they want to make sure that the next edition of the Jet is solid.
    I'm Confused . . . Wait a Minute, No I'm Not . . .

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    Taiwan on for size....


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  153. #153
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    hmm?

    Yeh yeh yeh...my avatar says it all right? Well hopefully after all the dust settles, I will still be a loyal NINER bike co. fan. I made a list yesterday and I have owned 22 bikes since I began mtb in the 80s...never a single recall. It sounds like I have been lucky, as I hear so many stories about recalls.

    Regarding these 2 particular Jet9 recalls/issues, I do know this:
    1. I was without a bike during the 1st linkage Jet 9 recall until I spent money on a temporary ride....which I lost money on because I rode it for the months that I waited for NINER to rectify the linkage issue. = LOSS OF MONEY

    2. I am lucky because I DO have the ability to break-down and build-up bikes...good thing I have purchased all of the necessary tools to do it myself over the years. It WOULD HAVE cost me quite a bit of money to hire a qualified mechanic to transfer parts over to 2 different replacement bikes while I wait for NINER to sort things out. = POTENTIAL LOSS OF MONEY Anyone lose out in this category??

    3. I convinced a close friend of mine to purchase a Jet9....he did...now I look like an ass. He is cool about it, but I still feel bad that he is now a part of this....

    I am not really sure what to make of all this....pretty frustrating for BOTH sides I imagine...

    And please...folks...don't respond: "New RIP 9 = GAIN OF MONEY" or anything similar....not original...not appreciated... It seems like there are a lot of members that don't own Jet 9s that are bitter about not having this option themselves...get over it.. I think the exchange/purchase option is simply NINER's way of compensating their buyers (many of us have owned a number of NINERs already...that is me racing Sea Otter on a SIR9 in the avatar) for some of their time/patience and money during these 2 recalls on the same frame... I can respect that if that is their intention...

    It sounds like the new Jet9 is going to be amazing....hope so!
    Last edited by jet9n8; 09-23-2009 at 04:36 PM.

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    I'm interested to see some real numbers as far as breaks goes. I know last year Cannondale recalled approx. 150 Scalpels because of 6 breaks. Based on what I just saw in the broken Jet forum, this could be larger. As I said before, and please I don't mean this as a slam on Niner, I think this recall is more about necessity than anything else. I think anyone here would have a hard time getting Niner to state this broken frame issue fits their goals for the Jet. Expecially if you add the redesigned rockers and rear triangle.
    My own issue aside, I'm truly hopeful this all works out great for everyone waiting anxiously for the new Jet.

  155. #155
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    Got an email from Niner tonight, the Rip9 is on it's way.......

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    GrgX - Do you know when Niner received your Jet? I'm just trying to gauge turn around time. They already have mine, but I've heard nothing.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnieA
    GrgX - Do you know when Niner received your Jet? I'm just trying to gauge turn around time. They already have mine, but I've heard nothing.
    Check the Niner forum: Recall info.
    There's several posts near the end that give case #'s, when they shipped their Jet, & expected delivery dates on new frames.

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    My original frame was purchased on 5/30/08. The frame I have now will have been the third front triangle frame that has had issues with cracks along the wealds. I also had one with rear triangle issue. o yea I also had to wait thru the rocker issue. The last frame I had was serial # P8400478. I have had a jet9 bike for 1 year and three months I have only ridden it 7 of those months. The frames are cracking after an average of 25 rides (not all races). Every time it broke they said getting my money back was not an option.

    Luckily??? My last frame broke a week before the recall. Frank offered me the EMD for the discounted price. and got it right out to me (three days). It really was good to great CS. but good CS can only go so far.

    I hope they fix these issues with the 2010. If the 2010 breaks I will go to court to get my money back. Even if it cost me twice as much.

  159. #159
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    If the 2010 go through these same issues, I do not think that you will have a defendant in your case. I predict that Niner must now walk a fine line to survive.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnieA
    GrgX - Do you know when Niner received your Jet? I'm just trying to gauge turn around time. They already have mine, but I've heard nothing.
    9.10.09 - Signed up for the recall.
    9.11.09 - Got an email stating a case notification was made for the recall.
    9.15.09 - Received the UPS shipping label.
    9.18.09 - Sent the Jet back to Niner.
    9.23.09 - Got an email from Niner that the Rip is on it's way. Can't wait to have it.

    It should be here by Monday ,just to let you know that I am located here in the Santa Clara area.

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    Good job!

    Thanks GrgX - I just got my invoice from Niner about an hour ago. No shipping date yet, but I assume it'll be tomorrow.

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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Hey Guys
    Can Anybody Tell Me If This Jet Recall Cover Also A Second Hand Jet 9 Owner (like Me...)my Frame Which I Bought From Original Owner For A Lot Of Money Based On The Fact That Niner Have A Good Products Is Now Not Usefull??sould I Just Trash It And Buy A New Frame: Or Do Niner Cover My Case Also??
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by asafbaldav
    Hey Guys
    Can Anybody Tell Me If This Jet Recall Cover Also A Second Hand Jet 9 Owner (like Me...)my Frame Which I Bought From Original Owner For A Lot Of Money Based On The Fact That Niner Have A Good Products Is Now Not Usefull??sould I Just Trash It And Buy A New Frame: Or Do Niner Cover My Case Also??
    Thanks!
    1. Contact the seller..work out a deal and have them send it back. If they are a good person, they should understand and want to help out

    2. Contact NINER and ask...

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by asafbaldav
    Hey Guys
    Can Anybody Tell Me If This Jet Recall Cover Also A Second Hand Jet 9 Owner (like Me...)my Frame Which I Bought From Original Owner For A Lot Of Money Based On The Fact That Niner Have A Good Products Is Now Not Usefull??sould I Just Trash It And Buy A New Frame: Or Do Niner Cover My Case Also??
    Thanks!
    Check with Niner but I believe you're golden. I spoke with Niner a few times last week and I believe they said all Jets are recalled.

  165. #165
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    I agree with Yukon; ALL Jets are recalled regardless of whether you are the 1st or 27th owner. That is how recalls vs. warranty work.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    I agree with Yukon; ALL Jets are recalled regardless of whether you are the 1st or 27th owner. That is how recalls vs. warranty work.
    They at no point have asked for any proof-o-purchase, dealer info, receipt or anything like that. If you send the frame in intact, then I think you've fulfilled your end.

  167. #167
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    All you need to do is send the BB shell with the serial # in the recalled range. Cheaper to ship a small box with the BB shell cut out from the frame, than the whole frame.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    All you need to do is send the BB shell with the serial # in the recalled range. Cheaper to ship a small box with the BB shell cut out from the frame, than the whole frame.
    Is this for international owners (ie: outside US)? This is how I thought it was supposed to be handled:
    1. NINER sends an electronic form that you are to print and attach to shipping box per their very clear instructions...aka NINER pays for return shipping....already did this myself..

    2. NINER needs the expensive fox rear shock to re-attach to the new Jet 9 replacement frames...they will not ship the replacement Jet, as the shock acts as support for the rear triangle..

    3. Did someone at NINER actually tell you to take a saw to the frame and cut the bottom bracket shell off...wow.
    Last edited by jet9n8; 09-25-2009 at 04:00 PM.

  169. #169
    TR
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    He is correct for international owners, but not for US owners.

  170. #170
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    Filed claim day of recall, Case very very low 1100's
    They received Jet 9 on the 23rd
    Shipped my Rip9 on the 24th
    Fed Ex delivery supposed to arrive on the 30th according to the tracking #
    I'm in Michigan

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet9n8
    Is this for international owners (ie: outside US)? This is how I thought it was supposed to be handled:
    1. NINER sends an electronic form that you are to print and attach to shipping box per their very clear instructions...aka NINER pays for return shipping....already did this myself..

    2. NINER needs the expensive fox rear shock to re-attach to the new Jet 9 replacement frames...they will not ship the replacement Jet, as the shock acts as support for the rear triangle..

    3. Did someone at NINER actually tell you to take a saw to the frame and cut the bottom bracket shell off...wow.
    Uhm....I think that was a joke. No?

  172. #172
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    Thanks for the update, that is good turnaround once they got your bike... They just got myne yesterday afternoon, hope it goes as smoothly.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsub1
    Uhm....I think that was a joke. No?
    If you look at the Niner forum, you can see this post from Niner. So, in short, no joke.

    ************************************************** *

    Hi Guys,

    Swamped is an understatement. To make it even more crazy we're trying to pack everything up for Interbike!

    If you are outside the USA please cut out the bottom bracket and send it to your local distributor. You will hold onto the linkages, hardware and shock unless you have worked something out with your shop/distributor.

    OK, this is where it starts to get more complicated for International JET9 owners. Every company has issues with consumers either visiting USA and going home with a frame or consumers who has a distributor but wants to "save a few hundred dollars" and go around the distribution channel set up in place in the country. If you purchased your bike through the appropriate distribution channel in your country, then your JET9 recall will be handled through them. If you purchased the bike from a USA bike shop, you are responsible for getting the bottom bracket with serial number back to us. You keep your linkages, hardware, and shock. What I would suggest is cutting out your bottom bracket and mailing it to us as pictured below. We can ship your replacement front and rear triangle to you, or we can ship it to our distributor closest to you. An Example: You live in Finland and bought your frame from "Bike Shop USA." We do have a distributor in Norway, and they will be getting a shipment of replacement frames all at the same time when production is finished. We can ship it free to Norway, however, Norway distributor will require payment from you to ship your frame to you from there.

    If you purchased the bike from USA and live in a country where we have a distributor, it is not up to our distributor to ship the bike to you for free. They will charge you some freight, sorry guys this is just how it works and probably is the ideal example of why saving a couple hundred bucks sometimes doesn't work. They are not obligated to service what they did not import and sell. We will need to chat about the logistics of getting the replacement frame to you, but still in these cases you should send us your cut out bottom bracket (see pic below) ASAP as we will be doing one lump shipment into each country.

    If you are purchasing a placeholder frame (option 1) and live outside the USA, you will have pay whatever actual costs and VAT/customs/import - USA guys are paying for freight to them with these frames and we simply can't absorb free freight for everyone. Hope you understand. We priced these frames low enough as it is - and asking us to pay your freight/import/etc. just isn't possible.

    If you are going for option 2 and purchased through your local distributor/importer, then we will cover freight in of your RIP9 frame. Choose this option if you want to be out of pocket zero dollars and riding ASAP. These frames will be shipped shortly after our option 1 October 31 deadline so we can again make one shipment into each country. Note, some of our local distributors have all frames and serial numbers already entered and will be getting option 1 and 2 frames on the way soon so please do not delay on this.

    The new JET9 replacement frames will have a zero dollar/warranty notation coming into your country on the commercial invoice so there will be no charges to you guys.

    If you have any international questions and we have not responded to your notes on the cases you submitted, please email me [email protected] and I can help with the logisitics. Please note I will be attending Interbike all of next week so my email time will be very limited starting Monday morning 9/21 when my flight leaves for the entire week. I will respond to emails this weekend. If you are in the USA, the best way to reach us is 877-646-3792. Outside USA is 818-286-0092. For USA JET9 owners: Frank, Lou, and Paula will be in the office all next week working on the warranty cases and shipping out return labels as they come in. Calling in will get you an immediate response and we do answer the phone.

    Thanks,

    Brett
    Niner Bikes

  174. #174
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    Ah, that definitely makes more sense for out of the US.

  175. #175
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    new niner purchase

    just bought a new niner based on the service post here. this looks like a guarentee for greatness vs. what some of the other manumfactures may or may not offer. i love the new niner!!!!!
    women and bikes are my heaven

  176. #176
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    Filled claim on the day of the recall, after thinking about 5 seconds on what frame to get.
    Received my return label on the 16th.
    Niner received my Jet on the 21st.
    FedEx dropped of my new Air 9 on the 28th.
    Pretty darn fast I think. I don't know how they do it.
    Gone start building it up in a minute...
    I'm Confused . . . Wait a Minute, No I'm Not . . .

  177. #177
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    I contacted Niner and got my UPS label on 9/15. Niner received my JET (according to UPS tracking) on 9/23. Frank from Niner called me today to take care of the payment for option 1 that I selected (I'm buying a RIP at the discount while waiting for the new JET next year) and the RIP will ship tomorrow, 9/30. I should have it some time next week for about a 2 1/2 - 3 week total turnaround which isn't bad at all in my estimation. And of course, shipping was $29 and change which is a fitting price for a new 29"er.....

    Hats off to everyone at Niner for the way the recall has been handled and the options we had to choose between. I'm sure they are all exhausted from the extra work of taking care of the customers over and above the usual work load - so I tip my hat to them for it.

    BB

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiderInTraining
    --8<--
    Pretty darn fast I think. I don't know how they do it.
    Gone start building it up in a minute...
    #1345, filed two weeks ago - still no reaction. Pretty slow.
    happy trails
    @realredbyte
    www.mtb-siegerland.de

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbyte
    #1345, filed two weeks ago - still no reaction. Pretty slow.
    You should call. I'm claim #1385, and according to UPS tracking, Niner will receive my frame tomorrow.

  180. #180
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    1598 filed today.

  181. #181
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    Received my UPS label in under 23 hours. Impressive, but I suppose that it helps that I am near last in line.

  182. #182
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    Got my replacement Rip built up today. It looks great. I made it rain.

  183. #183
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    Still waiting for my RIP. They got my frame on 9/29, told them last week frame color was not important just send me a frame. Still nothing. Guess they are out of X-Large frames?

    I appreciate the options they gave but being without a bike (and largely in the dark) for a month is a bit frustrating at this point.

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