New Trends: Mini-Velo, Retro City, Monster Cross, Monster Tires?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New Trends: Mini-Velo, Retro City, Monster Cross, Monster Tires?

    As SS/FG and 29er become much more mainstream, there are several other trends that seem to be coming along. I would love to hear comments on these

    Mini-Velo - very popular in Asia and growing in Europe. These bikes sit like a road bike; but have 20" wheels. Geo is very interesting and they are not folders.
    See the general style here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-gi9_OMKs4

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? bike polo? a spare fun bike?
    At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?



    Retro City Bikes - these seem to be growing but still not readily available. Public anf Linus have interesting versions; they ride very comfy and upright; seem functional and nice for short casual rides; some are very attractive [I think] See the general style here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERBfFx1VW1Q

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? family rides? a spare fun bike? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?


    Monster Cross - a mix of 29er and CX bike - drop bars with super wide tires. I am unsure if this is a trend; but it might be. See a good example gere -> http://www.voodoocycles.net/nakisi.htm

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? off-road racer? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?


    Monster Tire Bikes - I have seen no real trend here; but they are interesting. The Surly Pugsley is an axample -> http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pugsley_complete/ BUT I have seen an riden a street bike and a beach cruiser with super big high air volume tires [like 4.0 or 4.5]. Super comfy ride; like floating on air, and lots of work.

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? beach or dirt rides? Just for the heck of it? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?


    Noone really knows where the industry is headed in terms of new designs and comsumers demands; but it is fun to think & talk about.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Mini-Velo - very popular in Asia and growing in Europe. These bikes sit like a road bike; but have 20" wheels. Geo is very interesting and they are not folders.
    ...
    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? bike polo? a spare fun bike? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?
    This is absolutely ridiculous and I don't see it going anywhere fast (literally). I wouldn't pay anything for this. This looks like something somebody would build up when they're bored for a laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Retro City Bikes - ...
    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? family rides? a spare fun bike? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?
    Bikes like this are everywhere on Craigslist. Only they're actually old and I would imagine most people buy them because they tend to be really inexpensive, even in a price-inflated market like the DC area where I live. As long as they're priced in line with what's on CL and Ebay I see no reason why they wouldn't sell for city folk. If I saw a bike like this for sale as a new bike I would expect it to have a $200 price tag.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Monster Cross -
    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? off-road racer? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?
    An affordable monster cross bike would be cool. Most of the time I see them, they are done with very high end builds. Priced maybe in the $500 to $800 range?

    But then again, all I'd have to do is buy some dropbars and I'd have one of my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Monster Tire Bikes -
    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? beach or dirt rides? Just for the heck of it? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?
    I have no use for a bike like this but if I lived somewhere that was flat and got a buttload of snow each year I might be tempted. I have no idea of a cost associated with such a bike.
    Last edited by one incredible donkey; 12-03-2010 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #3
    YB1
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    Catagorize this one.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Trends: Mini-Velo, Retro City, Monster Cross, Monster Tires?-kruiser-1-1.jpg  

    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  4. #4
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    Monster Tire Bikes - I have seen no real trend here; but they are interesting. The Surly Pugsley is an axample -> http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pugsley_complete/ BUT I have seen an riden a street bike and a beach cruiser with super big high air volume tires [like 4.0 or 4.5]. Super comfy ride; like floating on air, and lots of work.

    No trend? Have you seen the Fat Bike Forum? I for one would love to see what you can offer in the fat bike category.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Catagorize this one.
    this is a sick bike. dang love that look

  6. #6
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    Mini-Velo - Not interested.

    Retro City Bikes - Not Interested.

    Monster Cross - Yes, I'd use it for rides that cover both pavement and dirt roads.

    Monster Tire Bikes - Maybe. It would help if I could also fit regular 29" wheels and tires on it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Catagorize this one.
    File under WQ for WTF, Quasimodo!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Catagorize this one.
    Yeah. Here's a freak of nature I built for a specific "Beers not Gears" ride. Coaster Brake required.

    New Trends: Mini-Velo, Retro City, Monster Cross, Monster Tires?-cimg0642.jpg


    Here's another coaster brake thing I built with 700c wheels.

    New Trends: Mini-Velo, Retro City, Monster Cross, Monster Tires?-cimg0351.jpg

    I can't wrap my head around the Mini-Velo. It takes so much energy to get anywhere fast on those 20". Believe me, I ride a BMX bike.

    Monster Cross? Yup.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Catagorize this one.
    Very cool bike. That would be a great city bike.
    I thought of that while riding my bicycle. ~ Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Catagorize this one.
    Simple, circa 1980 Bassett Racing Cruiser look a like. Very popular 26" BMX bike back then, at least in So. Cal.

  11. #11
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    Mini velo if they were folders. I suppose in the city on the sidewalk they might be useful.

  12. #12
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    Well first off "monstercross" is often misdiagnoised as a dropped bar'ed 29er....which it isn't. Changing the handlebar alone of a bike doesn't make it a whole brand new bike.

    A monstercross bike is actually defined as such (Matt Chester/Vulture guys started this BTW) is a dirt dropped bike with tires typically in the 40-50mm tire range.. More angile than a mountain bike, little more cush than a cross bike. little more burly. Hence "monstercross"

    A 29er with dirt drops is just a 29er with dirt drops.

    Monster Tire Bikes-Once again, little clarification here. They are actually consider fat bikes (yes there is a brand called fat bikes, but then there is a brand called Niner). There is a reasonable trend thanks to Surly with Fat bikes becoming more well known. More rims. More frames (Fat Bikes, Salsa, Form, etc..) and retro fit for just the front thanks to Jeff Jones/Vicscous Cycles and Salsa (Enabler fork)

    Retro City bikes-This isn't really a "new" trend at all....only "trend" is framebuilders exploring it for shows such as NAHBS and other handbuilt shows. But they didn't go away. Just go to Europe or any relatively major US city...or hell...Lincoln, NE.

    I think there really is no "trends" here other than monster cross and fat bikes. These are two categories that are quite legit and well established. I personally know of a new monster cross website launching (monstercrosser.com...their is a Facebook page already with almost 200 people) and I know of a company launching this summer that among other things will offer frames at the vary $800-$900 price range someone already mentioned.

    There are always other micro niches such as pixies (20" bikes with long post and apehangers...popular here in Colorado for 8+ years now), Gravity bikes (Something we came up with back home...no cranks and low to ground), and more. But in the end i hardly call this "trends" as just people having fun tinkering with bikes. Nothing more.
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  13. #13
    YB1
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    Quote Originally Posted by S:Drive
    Simple, circa 1980 Bassett Racing Cruiser look a like. Very popular 26" BMX bike back then, at least in So. Cal.

    Except mines a 29'er and those Bassett bikes are fugly.
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Catagorize this one.

    Interesting bike
    I did a run of bikes like that about 6 or 8 years ago
    They were called the Mango SNAKE EYES

    sold OK, but not like crazy
    Kinda a BMX Crusier thing

    fun bikes, but not wide market

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Interesting bike
    I did a run of bikes like that about 6 or 8 years ago
    They were called the Mango SNAKE EYES

    sold OK, but not like crazy
    Kinda a BMX Crusier thing

    fun bikes, but not wide market

    Do you have any pictures of the Snake Eyes? I think a steel 29" Klunker would be a GREAT option

  16. #16
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    +1 for an (more) affordable Fat bike as well as a proper Monstercross. However, to do so would require the proper tire size to return to the market.
    "Those are some good humans."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordecai
    +1 for an (more) affordable Fat bike as well as a proper Monstercross. However, to do so would require the proper tire size to return to the market.

    I have been sold on MonsterCross over the past two days
    posts here
    posts on BF.net
    and now my wife saying 'hey, I would like a mountain bike with dropbars'

    So I am sending a factory request for frame drawing in 4130 right now; I think the geo I sent will work well and I will use dropout that can go SS or Der; I like the idea of this type bike

  18. #18
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    Do you think that you can do it with sliding dropouts with built in tensioners? That would be rad. And do us all a solid and make sure it has post's for v brakes?
    "Those are some good humans."

  19. #19
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    ^^^ Greedy, i know right?
    "Those are some good humans."

  20. #20
    YB1
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    Quote Originally Posted by biss-ness
    Do you have any pictures of the Snake Eyes? I think a steel 29" Klunker would be a GREAT option
    Me too, I'd like to see some photo's.
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  21. #21
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    The problem with both the mini velo and the retro city bikes are that you have to wear flip-flops and go without a helmet (according to the video). Seriously, monster-crossers are a super niche market- I have a custom made one (Quiring), because neither a CX bike nor a 29er converted very well. It gets ridden a little bit, but it is a compromise by design. If you look at the Fat Forum, you will see the need for more of these bikes, and more affordable as well. I think a SS version that allows for geared upgrades would sell well, provided it had a decent parts spec. If Salsa and Surly can sell decent spec'd bikes for $1500, I would think a $1000 version would do well. At least I would buy one. The problem will be rims and tires- they aren't cheap.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Mini-Velo
    Yes, these are going to be all the rage soon. Everyone I know is asking about where to get one (I know I am). You would do well to stock as many of these as you can.

    Retro City Bikes
    These are already everywhere, as common as dirt. But hey, people pay for bottled water and air, so why not dirt?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  23. #23
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    Hey Mike,

    Ever think about going down the Swobo Folsom route?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by one incredible donkey
    .......

    I have no use for a bike like this but if I lived somewhere that was flat and got a buttload of snow each year I might be tempted. I have no idea of a cost associated with such a bike.

    What does flat have to do with it? They were made for Alaska, which is pretty far from flat..... They go uphill just fine. The tires aren't as heavy as they look.

  25. #25
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    what you call "mini-velo" is actually called Formula 1 bmx, and it got started in the 80's.
    had one, weighed a ton, sprinted and cornered like a crack weasel.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

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    I wish you guys sold a SS 29er that came with a rockshox reba level fork.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordecai
    Do you think that you can do it with sliding dropouts with built in tensioners? That would be rad. And do us all a solid and make sure it has post's for v brakes?
    Yes,
    one I decided to work on first will be 4130 steel with sliding dropout for SS / Multi Speed use. I am thinking Apex type shifting with real wide 20-speed gearing as stock
    but coming with SS conversion

    will come with disc brakess; with no v-brake set up [sorry]
    I think this type bike will be demanded in disc brakes
    [may do a cheaper v-brake version later; may do an aluminum one later; may do a Ti one later -- just need to see now monstrer cross goes over]

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    Yes, these are going to be all the rage soon. Everyone I know is asking about where to get one (I know I am). You would do well to stock as many of these as you can.


    These are already everywhere, as common as dirt. But hey, people pay for bottled water and air, so why not dirt?

    #1 [min velo] HaHa; I MIGHT do a smal number and see if the market follows

    #2 [retro City] Public & Linus doing good selling new ones; I do not think typical people want old ones to fix up; and the city bikes by some companies do not match the 'style' factor some buyers want on these.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion
    Hey Mike,

    Ever think about going down the Swobo Folsom route?

    This would be easy to do; and not too dfferent than some cruisers we do now
    I just do not know what the market is for this type bike

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by o0obruceleeo0o
    I wish you guys sold a SS 29er that came with a rockshox reba level fork.

    That is another interesting bike to consider
    new Bullseye is rigid; but many will add nice fork to it

    Strangerly enough; I had a Cliff 29.1 DLX specd with Tora and ordered
    and somehow the factory lost the order
    so I am starting over on that

  31. #31
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    I posted this in a similar thread on RBR, but I see the discussion here is a lot more productive, so I thought I'd re-post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect

    Monster Cross - a mix of 29er and CX bike - drop bars with super wide tires. I am unsure if this is a trend; but it might be. See a good example gere -> http://www.voodoocycles.net/nakisi.htm

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? off-road racer? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?
    I don't know if I'd call monstercross a "trend" or not, but there is a lot of interest in these bikes, and it would be a worthwhile market to serve. Go to the 29er forum of MTBR (particularly, the thread "I beg you, more MONSTERCROSS"). Cyclocross Magazine recently did an article on monstercross as well.

    I think there are enough monstercross bikes on the market with super-upright touring geometry and clearance for ridiculously wide tires (Voodo Nakisi, Salsa Fargo and Vaya, etc.). What is missing from the market is an affordable CX race worthy monstercross bike. i.e. shoulderable conventional semi-compact CX geometry, all cables on top of the top tube, but clearance for up to a 1.9" 29er tire. (IMHO 2.3" tires on a monstercross bike are too big, if you need that big of a tire, you might as well be on a 29er mountain bike)

    To my knowledge, there are only two bikes that fit into the "raceable monstercross" category, the Rock Lobster Cyclocross Tig Team S.L. and the Soulcraft Dirtbomb Both are pricey custom bikes. Both of these bikes have clearance for up to a 45c tire.

    The market could definitely use a "raceable monstercross" bike in aluminum (and/or Ti). I would suggest giving it a little more clearance than the Tig Team Sl and Dirtbomb for up to a 1.9" 29er tire. The only CX worthy 45c tire that exists is the Panaracer Fire Cross, but if you can clear a 1.9" 29er tire, that opens up a lot more tire choices. My wish list would also include disc tabs and same pricepoints as the Fantom Cross bikes.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Mini-Velo
    After watching the youtube video and seeing the Mercier logo, i grabbed my wallet and surfed over to the bikesdirect site..... WHY CAN'T I BUY THIS YET?

    Airwalk is doing two mini-velo's for $440, but they're fixed gears.
    http://airwalkfixed.blogspot.com/200...sales-now.html


    DO A RUN OF MINI-VELO'S! I'll take one with a 3-spd hub, v-brakes, flat bars and room for 2.1" tires, similar to the cannondale hooligan...

    http://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaeng...BBQ-Hooligan-3

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryJerry
    Airwalk is doing two mini-velo's for $440, but they're fixed gears.
    http://airwalkfixed.blogspot.com/200...sales-now.html
    [/url]
    Quote Originally Posted by onlycrimson
    Mini velo if they were folders. I suppose in the city on the sidewalk they might be useful.
    I have a Xootr/Swift Folder set up as a fixed gear. I love it. I will say this about 20" FG bikes: they do not handle AT ALL like 700c FG bikes. Especially when it comes to skidding and such - I miss mass and stabilizing effect of the big wheels, strangely enough. I imagine 20" FG bikes will not catch on for this reason. For bombing around the urban environment, 26" tires are about as small as I would go. For squeezing onto a crowded subway car or into a tight apartment, 20" has the edge.
    Responds to gravity

  34. #34
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    Rather than jumping on some new trends, I think I'd rather see some better decals and maybe a couple higher quality steel frames and forks offered just as frame and/or fork.

    I like the idea of getting a monstercross bike with only disc brake tabs. Only issue is that I'd want to be able to use dirt drops comfortably, have room for 2.1 tires and not have toe overlap and still be in the realm of road geometry. My guess is that ain't happening (especially on smaller frames).

    The only other bike that I think would be fun is something like the Bridgestone XO-1. Decent steel, road geometry and a 26" wheel.

  35. #35
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    Thanks for all the comments. VERY HELPFUIL! Every comment I learned something from and I hope that benefits our customers and cycling in general. {I even learn from those that slam me or our concept}

    Mini Velo: I learned that some wanted these; some did not want them and that many were generally confused by the entire category. And importantly I found that unlike the standard in Asia & Europe, customers here would like 406 BMX type rims with room for more rubber.

    I am still unsure if these bikes will sell well. When I made the post I really had not decided to order any. Now I have decided’ what the heck?’; and ordered the Mercier Nano as a test. I will do a ‘group buy’ for forum members on these in the spring sometime at a special price. There may be many who decide this type of bike is worth a try if they are under $300.

    I sold our four samples to forum members who posted that they would like one. Those have shipped and I hope those forum members will post on RBR, MTBR, and Bikeforums their honest opinion on these bikes. [my opinion is not too meaningfully as I love to ride about any bike and see the positive aspects of all].

    I know I will not be the only one watching this experiment as there are several other brands/importers with this type bike ready to go and are just waiting to see if anyone thinks they will sell.

    Retro City Bike: I had already decided to try this out [2 models - one SS and one 3-spd]. I knew this would work in my shops. But after reading the comments I think this may be an expanding area and I will spec more models. The customers and ideas on this remind me of SS/FG in that some people would think to get old bikes and modify; but that most will get new bikes if they can find the correct style at a good price.

    These bikes are great for function; and new ones need to have that style / look that customers like. We cannot just take a hybrid and slap on fenders and call it a city bike. There are a couple of brands doing a good job right now. Also I agree with many comments that to reach most buyers the price needs to be low. I expect if price is good enough that even hardcore road or mountain riders would get one as a ‘sport / commute’ extra bike.

    Monster Cross: I had no idea about the chance of us doing this type bike. In fact, I still find the ‘ideas’ on what this type bike should be as unfocused [to say the least]. And I really had no intention of doing one of these but wanted to learn what others thought.

    After reading all the comments; I sent in specs for a 4130 ss/multi-speed version and I am waiting for drawings and quotes; then samples etc. I thought why not try a few at higher level.

    Then after reading the comments and looking around net about these bikes, I decided what the heck, I should also try an Aluminum one at lower price. Working on frame design now; probably will do with mountain double and with cyclo-cross double [so now that is 3 models!]

    Anyway, I can see how can see how a bike like this can be a super versatile bike for all types of uses. Change your tires and get new use like a CX bike; but even more so with more tire choices. {and the 4130 model will come with SS & multiple setups; and maybe two sets of tires}

    Once this process of development is over; I may do a group buy if there is interest from forum members on one of the Monster Cross bikes.

    Monster Tire Bikes: OMG, I feel like a drunk with a 20 page drink menu at the Tiki bar. What kind of bikes can I just skip? I had no clue this type bike would really be interesting. I am still unsure; but I am starting to see how in some special situations that some cyclists would need or want a bike like this. Of course, it is very different for those by beach than those who have snow.

    Rims, Tires, Tubes, Forks are all special challenges on these. Plus a real commitment as I will not do a bike like this without stocking wheels, tires, tubes and forks for customer backup. Let’s face it, not easy to get replacement parts on these special items. Designing a frame is no big deal and easy. But other items on this type bike are really difficult.

    I have no idea if I will ever do a monster tire bike; but if I do it has to be priced at a very reasonable price. I do not see this type bike as anyone’s only bike. Of course, I am dedicated to the idea that if you are spending $5000 on bikes you are better off with 5 really nice bikes than with one $5000 prestige bike that you are afraid to ride or transport or leave parked in the garage. And I agree that #bikes.you.need = #bikes.you.have + 1.


    I love the forums! I used to get all types of ideas from standing on the floor in my shops and talking to customers. Now it is much easier and better [forums cover a wide area as shop customers are limited to a small area]. With so many types of cyclists and so many possible designs out there it is a never ending moving target when buying or designing bikes; but exciting and fun. Thanks again for your posts.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Yes,
    one I decided to work on first will be 4130 steel with sliding dropout for SS / Multi Speed use. I am thinking Apex type shifting with real wide 20-speed gearing as stock
    but coming with SS conversion

    will come with disc brakess; with no v-brake set up [sorry]
    I think this type bike will be demanded in disc brakes
    [may do a cheaper v-brake version later; may do an aluminum one later; may do a Ti one later -- just need to see now monstrer cross goes over]
    What spacing are you using on the rear?

  37. #37
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    I am not up on the rest, but I have been on Fat bikes for almost 5 years now. First thing you have to realize is that they are not just for snow and sand. They rock on the single track. Yes you can run 29er wheels on them because the 3.7 is just as big as a 29er wheel.
    The tires last a very long time. I have 3 years on one. In my 5 years on them I have had only one flat. The tubes are big and thick so they don't flat easily.
    Sunn is going to be bringing one in that will be a budget build. So if you use J&b you can get it from them.

    Hope this helps dispel some of the mystery of fat bikes. Most people who have one find themselves selling their other bikes.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  38. #38
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    I'm not sure about monstercross. I think just having a proper drop bar single speed mtb that's ready to go would be nice.

  39. #39
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    I would be all about a BD fat bike!

  40. #40
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    Make a cheap fatbike - you'll sell them.

  41. #41
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    Second for the bd fat bike! The surly complete isn't too bad price wise, but seems like a lot when considering it's kind of a novelty. I've always wanted a cheap-ish in to a fat bike ride. Bb7 and deore group would be sweet

  42. #42
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    I would love to see more fat-bikes out there in order to bring the prices down. The Salsa Mukluk is a great start, but if I could get the package under $1k or the hard to find components (frame, fork, rims, tires) for under $500 that would be fantastic.

  43. #43
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    Just make Sure you make it a "mountain bike" not a snow touring bike. That's where companies like Speedway have the advantage over Surly.

    I rode a pug for 3 years and it was ok. It didn't wake up until I put the maverick SC32 on it. Most pug owners who have done this will confirm huge gains in performance.

    My fatback feels like a mountain bike with really big tires. My pug just felt like a long touring bike.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  44. #44
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    just with regards to the mini-velo...
    I've owned one, would not buy another.
    While fun and quick handling, they are uncomfortable as can be.
    The combination of tiny wheels with very high psi tires makes for a horrible ride. Think of it this way, all the comfort of a bmx bike but in a bike with none of the stunting capabilities.
    These things were designed for parking lot races that lasted 30 minutes at a time.
    Flat out sucked the moment you tried to take them anywhere more than a couple hundred meters away.

    And that was my opinion back 13 years ago when I was flexible and willing to deal with uncomfy bikes for the heck of it.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  45. #45
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    Well I just ordered up the Mercier Nano, so that's my level of interest!

    Can't wait to see what it's like. I'll do an exhaustive review on my blog.

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