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  1. #401
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    I was following this thread for a while before I ordered my 29.4 frameset from BikeIsland (grey, no stickers). I just got it yesterday and thought I would throw it on the triple beam balance at school.

    19" Frame (with headset cups): 2012.86g = 4.44 lbs.

    RockShox Recon 29 Silver TK Solo Air Fork (with crown race): 2238.70g = 4.94 lbs.
    (SRAM lists the weight of this fork at 2069g)

    My box arrived in good condition. there is a tiny bit of paint rubbed at the outside of the dropouts. No big deal. There is a bit of a sloppy weld (in my opinion) where the left chain stay attaches to the BB. so a smaill portion of the bearing surface on the edge of the BB has a dip at the weld. The rear dropouts didn't quite fit the shipping spacer, so I measured them. they are about 137mm (2mm wide) I don't expect this will be too much of a problem.

    $349 shipped. The fork alone + shipping goes for that.

    I am currently considering getting the BB faced just make sure everything lines up just right. That will run me $40 at my LBS.

    So far, I am pleased. We'll see how it comes along.

    Since this is my 1st post, I expect that very soon I will accused of being a fanboi of Bikes Direct. I can hardly wait. (I got my via Bike Island, I could get just the frameset and NO DECALS)

  2. #402
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    Mike,
    Any news or photos of the new budget full suspension 29ers?

    "Several lower to medium level gravity and Dawes 29er FS coming this fall"

  3. #403
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    After reading discussion about the "Zilla", I have a little experience. Mine came a couple of days ago, pretty good bang for the buck. My purpose is to use as a winter bike here in the northeast (nasty salt). I've only ridden a few hours around the "hood", dirt road and just a bit of single/double track. A bit slower shifting than I'm used to. but it works. I fendered it for winter road riding. For me, it is well worth the $499. Just sayin.......

  4. #404
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    The guy at BD is very helpful, he has every right to advertise as much and where ever he wants including in a forum. I bought a Gravity 29er for my wife, she loves it

  5. #405
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    hmm i dont get the guy sayings the 40-60% off thing is bs. i compared 2 midrange? bikes a trek x-caliber and the fuji tahoe 29 pro. both seem pretty much the same to me though ill grant you the fork on the trek is better. reba rl vs tora 318 air but the rest are all sram x7 though im not sure if the juicy 5s are better/worse than elixir 1s. fuji sells for 799 xcal 1539. maybe thats why they post those msrp because those are the price points their name competitors sell their bikes for? myself im going with a lbs not because i dont like value but because for tuning/repairs im a total newbie. plus ill be getting free tuneups for life on the bike so that more than makes up for any savings. but if i was more confident and skilled i probably would go bd or some other online retailer for the value and the fact is where i live i have to travel hours to get to a good lbs which sucks.

  6. #406
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    gillotte is absolutely correct. Elsewhere (or perhaps even in this particular forum, can't be sure) I have posted that the bike I bought a few months ago (Motobecane Titanium Fly Team 29er) came with parts that, valued relatively conservatively, add up to more than the cost of the entire bike, which basically means I got a titanium frame for free. I would have expected some sloppy welds or even something broken out of the box for that price, but what I got was precision welds on a beautiful, lightweight frame that is both stiff and compliant, and has similar geometry to a lot of the top of the line 29er hardtails in existence. How one could argue to me that I didn't get an amazing deal is beyond me. The facts are clear, and at least in my experience, I can't imagine getting a better deal on such a fantastic machine.

  7. #407
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    Finished some upgrades on the 29point5, here's what I've added/swapped/changed:

    Time ATAC-S composite body clipless pedals
    Sunline XC-1 75mm stem (with an extra steerer spacer under the stem)
    RaceFace Deus riser bar, 680mm width
    Clarks lock on grips
    Origin8 non QR seat post clamp
    Seat post off my Giant OCR2 road bike
    WTB RocketV saddle with Ti rails
    LizardSkins Jumbo chainstay guard

    I've also got a Blackspire C4 ring god bash ring to replace the big ring (ground some teeth off today), but I haven't installed it yet. 2xBash is the perfect setup for CO, otherwise you'll end up using your big ring as a bash and ruin it inside of 5-10 rides.

    The parts I took off the bike (stem, handle bar, saddle, seat post & clamp) were all frickin' heavy! It was amazing how much even the seat post clamp weighed!

    Once I got all of the goodies installed, I went and cranked out 12-13 miles at JeffCo's Centennial Cone Open Space Park. Enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerdirragon View Post
    I'm curious on the weight of that build of yours. I know it won't be the lightest at all, but do you know what it weighs? Just wondering.
    Don't have a scale at home. Maybe I'll be able to wheel it in on the shipping scale at work one lunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerdirragon View Post
    Good riding, be safe, and have a blast on that bike!
    It's a blast riding a hard tail 29er... I'd forgotten how sloppy you can get on the up-hills... No rear suspension to bob or aborb the energy. Just stand and crank and the bike leaps forward. Yeah, it DOES beat the crap out of you on downhills though!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?-img_0086.jpg  

    New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?-img_0087.jpg  


  8. #408
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    Very nice looking!! Im interested in how much weight you have shaved off with the replacement of the no name parts. I would like to get a new wheelset for my 29.3 that would shed a ton of weight off the stock but im a poor college student.

  9. #409
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    Nice bike, hokiebrett.

    Please do tell us your new weight and previous weight, if possible. I've been wanting to upgrade my Point's handlebar, stem, and seatpost because I, too, have noticed they're heavy. I already changed out my seat with a seat from my road bike.

  10. #410
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    So i got bored and decided to do some weighing of stock components
    Stem (90mm) : 220g
    Bars: ? I didnt want to take the stock grips off which need to be off to get the brakes off
    Seatpost: 305g
    Seat: 420g (From wtb)

  11. #411
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    I bought a Gravity 29 point5 for my wife and we both love it. I use it for my HT 29er when I want a change up from my FSR 29 expert. I think it is an excellent value for the money

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by nateeprasan View Post
    3 years later, I wanted to change that 29er to rigid fork. They can remember me so I've got a friendly deal. My LBS figured out which rigid fork to fit my bike, I paid $130(fork)+$40(labor)+tax. This steel fork is $120 MSRP (I can get it online for $90) and 445mm-axle-to-crown (so it's not suspension corrected)
    So your LBS charged you $10 over MSRP for a fork, another $40 to install it (5 minute job), and you think that is a "friendly deal"??


  13. #413
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    Friendly overpriced deal

    Quote Originally Posted by krott5333 View Post
    So your LBS charged you $10 over MSRP for a fork, another $40 to install it (5 minute job), and you think that is a "friendly deal"??

    it's cutting and swapping the forks (I can do it in 15 minutes if I have those cheap specific tools).

    BTW, you noticed how dumb I was. I called it "friendly overpriced deal."
    I'll never buy anything from LBS again if they don't have a killer deal.
    Now I don't care about that "support your LBS" bullsh*t slogan.

  14. #414
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    Good job!

    i ordered a 29point1 last week, got it a couple days later. i did a 12 mile ride this weekend. this is my review.

    DISCLAIMER
    first of all, i acknowledge that this is a trek / fisher clone. i am comfortable with that. i am also comfortable with supporting a global marketplace through internet retail. lastly, i am not a racer. i do not take myself too seriously in regards to biking. i ride no more than once a week, and usually do between 8-16 miles a ride. i am not looking for a top of the line bike, and i know i did not buy one. and i am comfortable with that as well. so take any criticisms based on those points elsewhere. i think those were all beaten like a dead horse at the beginning of this thread

    BACKGROUND
    i was riding a dawes deadeye (from bikes direct) i bought as my first bike. it went from a SS rigid with rim brakes to it's final stage as a HT 1x8 with disc brakes. i decided to move over some of my upgraded components on the new bike since they were nicer than stock on the 29point1. i'm parting out the deadeye and new take offs from the 29point1 now.

    WHY I CHOSE THIS BIKE OVER OPTIONS
    1) i have a bikes direct bike already and have been satisfied with it. so i had no fear of quality.
    2) for the price, i got better components. i live in texas so i had to pay tax. my total was $487 or so. i saw a wahoo for $550 (plus tax) and a marlin for $600 (plus tax) or so at my LBS. but those are just 24 speeds and use cheaper derailleurs. they also had a specialized hardrock for $500 but that is just a 21 speed. performance has a GT on sale for $400 (plus tax) but that doesn't even come with disc brakes.
    3) i had settled on the trek frame because the geometry is so significantly different than every other entry level bike frame i could find. (specialized, GT, scott, raleigh, giant, etc...) however, the forks used on treks have an offset that is unique to trek. that means if i used my rockshox fork on the trek, i would lose some of their G2 geometry. bikes direct uses standard offset forks and adjusted the head tube angle to compensate for that. this means when i upgrade my fork, i am able to retain the designed geometry. that was huge to me.

    SETUP
    like i said, i removed the stock fork and wheelset and replace it with my tora solo air fork and velocity blunt wheels. i also removed the stock brakes and just reused my novela equivalent tektro IO brakes since the new calipers will sell for more than my used ones. my old platform pedals looked better than the stock platforms on this bike, so those also got moved over as well. finally, i decided to keep my old saddle as well. it's not upgraded but i was comfortable on it so i decided to just keep it and sell the new one.

    swapping parts added a little bit of extra time to my setup time so i won't complain about that. also, i'm slow when doing repairs, so take that into account as well. but the derailleurs were both in need of adjustments. it took me a good 20 minutes to get the rear dialed in. the front derailleur functioned enough to change gears but needed fine tuning. but i so tired of spinning gears after doing the rear i just left the front alone for the time.

    finally, my back tire is a karma 2.2. that is a tight fit on the back. on the deadeye, i had plenty of room, but this bike gives less space. it took some persuasion and adjusting to get it in there, but that was an aftermarket wheelset, so you can't hold that as a negative to the quality of the bike. however, note that the back wheels need skinny tires. also, i guess i should note that my blunts are 32mm wide, so that makes the tires sit wider as well.

    MAIDEN RIDE
    i took it to a local trail i have ridden before so i could compare. for handling, it is a little tough for me to say the exact source of the handling differences between the 29point1 and the deadeye. i do not know what proportion to attribute to geometry or the different handlebars. reason being, the handlebars on the 29point1 are significantly shorter than those on my deadeye. but on the deadeye, i would occasionally have to really fight with bike to corner. not on this bike. in fact, i had to really adjust to how quickly the bike reacted while steering. and it responded very differently to going over roots and off small drops. a couple times i got a little squirly from that but kept the bike upright. i did, however, go off course once and ended up wiping out. nothing more than a bruised ego, though. i decided to slow it down the rest of the ride.

    when i got to tighter quarters and had to navigate through trees and obstacles, the 29point1 was amazing. i was able to twist and turn in a way the deadeye never could. this is really why i wanted to the different geometry - improved 29er handling. and this bike delivered completely.

    going from a SS to a 1x8 to a 27 speed is quite a jump for me. i was able to do just about every climb i hit. i only had to stop if i came to a big root on the backside of a sharp turn. i just am not yet able to carry enough momentum through the turns to make it over those. but, i really like the extra gears. and i chuckle at that because it seems most people start with geared bikes and then move to SS for the simplicity. but i am going in the opposite direction there. anyway, i digress...

    other than handling, i am not sure exactly what else to comment on. i reused my old brakes, wheels, and fork, so i cannot comment on that. once i had the rear derailleur set up, it shifted great. the standover is lower on this bike than my deadeye (and most same sized 29ers from any other manufacturer) so i appreciate that. i have short legs and a long torso which is tough when most 29ers have unusually high standover heights. to get the long top tube, i need a bigger frame. bigger frame = higher standover. so, i am glad to get any extra space in that most sensitive of areas.

    on the way home from the trail, i did decide to drop off the bike at the shop to have the rear wheel adjusted. i don't have a truing stand and my "zip tie to the frame for a point of reference" method of wheel truing failed me here. so, i will let the professionals handle it from here. and while they're at it, i will let them adjust out the front derailleur as well. for what it's worth, this is just the second time i've had to take my bike to a shop for something i couldn't fix myself.

    SUMMARY
    overall, i am extremely satisfied with my purchase after one ride. look forward to getting back on the trails and getting to know the bike even more. i think as i get familiar with it, i will become even more pleased. it's good stuff and i rate the bikes direct 29point1 as a "buy".
    it's fun to do bad things

  15. #415
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    after a few more rides, i'm still adjusting to the narrow handlebars. with the riser bars, i'm unable to get the brake and shifter levers far enough inside for my liking. i might switch to a flat bar to see if that helps.

    other than that, i love it. the bike handles so much better than my old one. i can maneuver through tight spots like never before.
    it's fun to do bad things

  16. #416
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    I put a new wide easton bar on, made a big improvement. For my hardtail, it is plenty of fun. I still prefer to ride my 2011 Stumpjumper FSR 29er I9s..
    Narrow and rugged is the path that leads to life and few find it.

  17. #417
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    All built up

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.smith.pdx View Post
    there is a tiny bit of paint rubbed at the outside of the dropouts. No big deal. There is a bit of a sloppy weld (in my opinion) where the left chain stay attaches to the BB. so a smaill portion of the bearing surface on the edge of the BB has a dip at the weld. The rear dropouts didn't quite fit the shipping spacer, so I measured them. they are about 137mm (2mm wide) I don't expect this will be too much of a problem.
    The paint on this frame is ridiculous. If anything metal brushes the frame, it takes the paint off. Tools, the chain, anything. I now have several tiny dings all over the frame.

    In the grand scheme of things, its not that big a deal. The frame is aluminum. It's not like its going to rust. It's just annoying.

    As for the build, so far I don;t think the BB shell issue is a problem.

    I was initially pleased to see I wouldn't have to install the star nut as it was already in the fork. However, when you cut the steerer (you will need to do this it is VERY long), you have to put in a new star nut anyway. I would have preferred the star nut be in the bag with the rest of the headset when it arrived.

    The bike rides great. So far I am pleased.
    First MTB is not even put together yet.

    Crash-OW!-meter = 4 (on CX bike or borrowed 29er)

  18. #418
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    Thinking of getting a gravity "point" series in the next few weeks if I can. Just wondering how it fits other riders. Just did the book standover test and looks like I have a 29.5 inch inseam with out shoes on. I'm about 5'9 1/2" with out shoes on. So short legs and a longer torso and arms. Would the 15.5 frame work for me?

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbread View Post
    Thinking of getting a gravity "point" series in the next few weeks if I can. Just wondering how it fits other riders. Just did the book standover test and looks like I have a 29.5 inch inseam with out shoes on. I'm about 5'9 1/2" with out shoes on. So short legs and a longer torso and arms. Would the 15.5 frame work for me?


    Stand over is the least important criteria to use when sizing up your next ride, effective top tube length and reach to the bars would be much better dimensions to use to get a better fit. Do you have a bike that fits you well? If you do you could compare the various dimensions top find another frame that closely matches your current bike.

  20. #420
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    We're about the same. I'm 5'10, 29.5" SO. All torso! I'm thinking about a 17.5.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Finished some upgrades on the 29point5, here's what I've added/swapped/changed:

    Time ATAC-S composite body clipless pedals
    Sunline XC-1 75mm stem (with an extra steerer spacer under the stem)
    RaceFace Deus riser bar, 680mm width
    Clarks lock on grips
    Origin8 non QR seat post clamp
    Seat post off my Giant OCR2 road bike
    WTB RocketV saddle with Ti rails
    LizardSkins Jumbo chainstay guard

    I've also got a Blackspire C4 ring god bash ring to replace the big ring (ground some teeth off today), but I haven't installed it yet. 2xBash is the perfect setup for CO, otherwise you'll end up using your big ring as a bash and ruin it inside of 5-10 rides.

    The parts I took off the bike (stem, handle bar, saddle, seat post & clamp) were all frickin' heavy! It was amazing how much even the seat post clamp weighed!

    Once I got all of the goodies installed, I went and cranked out 12-13 miles at JeffCo's Centennial Cone Open Space Park. Enjoy.



    Don't have a scale at home. Maybe I'll be able to wheel it in on the shipping scale at work one lunch.



    It's a blast riding a hard tail 29er... I'd forgotten how sloppy you can get on the up-hills... No rear suspension to bob or aborb the energy. Just stand and crank and the bike leaps forward. Yeah, it DOES beat the crap out of you on downhills though!
    Where do you live? That looks like an awesome place to ride!

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Stand over is the least important criteria to use when sizing up your next ride, effective top tube length and reach to the bars would be much better dimensions to use to get a better fit. Do you have a bike that fits you well? If you do you could compare the various dimensions top find another frame that closely matches your current bike.
    Very true. I measured up my bike which is a 16.5 26er. It's about the same as the gravity 15.5 frame. The affective top tube is about an inch longer on the point which may be nice to have a little extra cockpit space without over-reaching.

  23. #423
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    Ok. So I got on a 17 inch frame with similar geometry(SO, TT) and while the top tube was a little high(it got to know my junk quite well), the reach and everything else felt so much better. It makes me feel like I've been scrunched up in my 16.5 26er. What a difference an inch or so of extra cockpit space will make. Besides that's why stems and bars come in different sizes, right?
    Last edited by Jonbread; 02-17-2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Forgot context

  24. #424
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    Ok, is it just me ... I mean am I missing something? I have skimmed a good bit of this thread and many other BD threads. Read the same ol' bashers bashing BD bikes over and over ... I get that, Really I do.

    BUT ... Seems to me at the price point for the specs the BD bikes are really hard to beat. I am seriously looking at a Point 5. Yes it is kinda plain. Geo is pretty decent, but the parts are on bikes that cost 1K + more. For $1099 I get a bike with very similar parts as a Stumpjumper Comp for $2200 (probably better wheels on the Stump).

    But here is the deal. So I ride the Gravity Point 5 for 6 months or a year. Decide I hate the frame. I can pick up a Niner EMD frame new for $329 at Jenson USA. So now i have a Niner EMD for $1,429 ... And I can probably sell the Point 5 for $50-$100. I go to Competitive cyclists site and build up an EMD with same fork and either same parts or cheapest offered and the cost is $2835 at 25.4 lbs.

    Maybe its me ... But I do not see a problem with this plan. How is this a bad deal?

  25. #425
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    It's not bad at all. Most bashers either had a bad experience or are brand snobs. The only two arguments against BD that I will acknowledge is that buying off the internet doesn't help the LBS, and there's no LBS back-up if/when you have problems with your bike. Most every other complaint is hooey (or what ever description you prefer). The only thing is if you buy from BD you gotta do your own wrenching, or pay a LBS for services most will give for free after buying a bike. That's why you get such a good deal is that you're not paying for overhead and such so for the same money you get more bike but no safety net. I bought my Motobecane since I wanted to learn my own maintenance and this way I'm forced to learn otherwise my laziness will cost me...literally. It doesn't mater what the haters say though cause my bike is MY BIKE and theirs is theirs. Mine gives me all the fun I can ask for, regardless of whose name is on the down tube.
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

  26. #426
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    I hear you Jr. I have been a BD follower for several years. Never bought a bike of theirs, but did buy an Ibex bike a few years ago for another rider. Good experience with that deal.

    As to wrenching ... I've always been my own wrench. Have no problem with that. My only draw back with personal wrenching is odd parts and tracking them down. I have no source for things like internal fork parts and odd things. But as far as an LBS is concerned. I bought my last 2 road bike there. Great deal, great relationship ... but every time they wrench for me I have to follow it up with my own tweaks. I find my own joy and pleasure in riding and wrenching.

  27. #427
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    29er which bike???

    Sup everyone! Im looking to get a new bike for about 600 bucks...
    I went to a local store today and road a raleigh talus 29er 18'' and it seemed okay $599, I am 240lbs i use to ride bmx, trails, parks exc, i looked on BD and they had some similar bikes like the gravity point 1234... 1 is 450 and they go up to 800 bucks. my question is which one should i get if any? and is the extra bucks for the points is it worth it.
    i plan on riding alot, im just gettin to old for the skate park falls thanks!

  28. #428
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    I bought a Gravity Point 3 for my wife for $750. I think it was well worth the extra money for the upgrade in Components and fork. I wanted to be around $700 so I couldn't find anything even close for the money. You do need to conpleatly assemble the bike when you get it so you need to know a little about bike maintenance. The wheels were a little out of true and the cables had a wierd bend to them, the pedal seamed to be bent possibly. But still all considering it is still a lot of bike for the money and a great value for a brand new bike. She loves it and I ride it when I want to ride HT and it works just fine for me (160lbs). The only thng is the fork on the point 3 is a bit weak for your size you may want to get a better fork, like spend just a little bit more and get something you will actualy have some fun on. Or go with a full rigid bike. In the $600 range you wont get a very trail worthy bike for your size and experiance level.. You need to have a buget of about $1K
    Narrow and rugged is the path that leads to life and few find it.

  29. #429
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    Just got my Gravity 29 629 SS rigid which cost $350 shipped. Have to say that I am pleasantly surprised.

    About 28 lbs and quite a few WTB parts. Went together well and looks almost too good. I bought it to replace my nice commuter bike that was stolen a week ago and wanted something with no bling and cheap so it won't hurt as bad if it goes missing. Definitely still have to lock it up.

    I would have never thought you could get something this nice for $350.

  30. #430
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    My GT Peace 9er where it should be
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?-imag0192.jpg  

    Narrow and rugged is the path that leads to life and few find it.

  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Just got my Gravity 29 629 SS rigid which cost $350 shipped. Have to say that I am pleasantly surprised.

    About 28 lbs and quite a few WTB parts.

    I would have never thought you could get something this nice for $350.
    How are the brakes and cranks? Any problems?

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDfromBR View Post
    How are the brakes and cranks? Any problems?

    Well I've only ridding it on the street for about an hour but so far no worries. The cranks are Truvativ.

    I had read really bad things about the brakes but I set them up and washed the rotors with soap before I road and they work fine. Not sure how they would be on a steep trail but for the street, which is predominantly where the bike will be, they are good. Rotors are straight, as are the wheels.

    The bike has WTB rims, saddle, tires and grips.

    The only thing that is wrong that I can find is the chain tensioners, nut tuggers. They work but just barely. They don't line up with the rear of the drop outs. The bolt has to bend to contact. They should spec a different tensioner and all would be good.

    The paint may be delicate. It's gloss black. Basically everything is black and looks good. Even black spokes.

    I found some $5 cogs today at Universal so I ordered some smaller ones for street 14 15 and a 20 for trials. It comes with 33 18 gearing.

    Also bought some $2 water bottle cages. This is so the opposite of what I usually shop for in bikes. It's fun seeing how cheap you can get it and still have it work just fine.

  33. #433
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    Does anyone have a picture of the Gravity 29 Point3 in the MatteGray color? I would like to check it out before I make a purchase.

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    I "love" how the first few posters rip the OP and this frame. Please ... This frame has the same geometry as the Trek Cobria and Superfly AL Elite except for a .2 degree diff in head angle. And it looks pretty slick too IMO. It may be a boat anchor with junk tubing and bad welds (I have no idea on that) ... but it looks as good as anything else out there minus the snappy paint jobs.

    I got to do a 10 mile / 30 + min test ride on a Superfly at a local weekend event on single track XC with some rock piles, logs and a few rock garden drops. Love the Geo. I had read some issues some riders have switching from a 26 to a 29er. I had none of those feelings. There was no learning curve in handling and cornering for me. Not to say it was the same ... it is different, But it gave me not trouble. Cant say I liked it any better than the ride of my 26" Spider - just different. But I could clear my one troublesome rock pile much easier. Definitely to me like a 29er has slower acceleration ... yet better sustained momentum. Felt overall faster than my 26 wheel on the same trails, but have not data to prove that. Also, it is a hard tail no matter what the big wheel fan boys say. I "felt" it ... but it is not bad.

    Still undecided on a 29er ... but I think if I get one it will be a BD Gravity Point??. The Geo Felt really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1 View Post
    I "love" how the first few posters rip the OP and this frame. Please ... This frame has the same geometry as the Trek Cobria and Superfly AL Elite except for a .2 degree diff in head angle. And it looks pretty slick too IMO. It may be a boat anchor with junk tubing and bad welds (I have no idea on that) ... but it looks as good as anything else out there minus the snappy paint jobs.



    As long as it looks good.

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    As long as it looks good.
    Read the start of this thread rocket scientist ... the first half a dozen posts were bagging on the looks. All I'm saying is it looks fine to me ... not that looks make a bike ... come on troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1 View Post
    Read the start of this thread rocket scientist ... the first half a dozen posts were bagging on the looks. All I'm saying is it looks fine to me ... not that looks make a bike ... come on troll.


    You also commented on the geo trying to allude to it being "the same as" . You are being disingenuous in your argument trying to candy coat this POS.

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    You also commented on the geo trying to allude to it being "the same as" . You are being disingenuous in your argument trying to candy coat this POS.
    I did indeed say "same ... except". Do a side by side of the 2 I listed and this bike my friend. The only diff is the .2 degree diff in HT angle ... everything else is the same. I like a steeper HT angle. So the .2 diff ... if you will even notice it, will only be more toward my liking.

  39. #439
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    Disingenuous ... yeah that's me and what I have been doing on this forum for the last 5 years. There is no similarity at all between the two bikes ... oh wait ...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by epg0 View Post
    Does anyone have a picture of the Gravity 29 Point3 in the MatteGray color? I would like to check it out before I make a purchase.
    Check out the 29Point4 - it shows a photo of the matte gray. AFAIK, the Gravity 29Point series all have the same frame (although diff colors), just different components.

    The Gravity frame is nearly identical to the Trek G2 29ers. I almost got a Point4 but ended up getting a close out 2011 Cobia.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1 View Post
    Disingenuous ... yeah that's me and what I have been doing on this forum for the last 5 years. There is no similarity at all between the two bikes ... oh wait ...


    If you are suggesting that they are the same or share anything other than a similarity in geo, then yes you are being disingenuous. Just because the numbers may be similar does not mean they are the same. There is much more to a frame than the simple numbers and attempting to draw parallels would be futile.

  42. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    If you are suggesting that they are the same or share anything other than a similarity in geo, then yes you are being disingenuous. Just because the numbers may be similar does not mean they are the same. There is much more to a frame than the simple numbers and attempting to draw parallels would be futile.
    Post #434 ... ". It may be a boat anchor with junk tubing and bad welds (I have no idea on that) " Nope no sugar coating there. Simply said the are nearly the same in Geo ... a key factor in handling.

  43. #443
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    I just purchased a point3...can someone please tell me this isn't a piece of junk

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1 View Post
    Simply said the are nearly the same in Geo ... a key factor in handling.


    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Agreed.
    You can't ride them ... so you have to find something close if you are even considering a BD Bike and want a "test ride" My logic goes back to post #424 ... any thoughts. Still seems like a decent plan to me.

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by epg0 View Post
    I just purchased a point3...can someone please tell me this isn't a piece of junk



    Its not junk, a suitable entry level mtb that with proper care and upkeep should serve you until you upgrade .

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1 View Post
    You can't ride them ... so you have to find something close if you are even considering a BD Bike and want a "test ride" My logic goes back to post #424 ... any thoughts. Still seems like a decent plan to me.




    Get someone to post a reliable frame weight, that would tell you a lot. Its not the whole story but its a start. Overweight frames tend to feel dead ime. If it comes in at a reasonable weight it could be a viable option. Ride reports would be nice but they tend to be unreliable because most owners are as noob as noob can be. Try to find a good ride report. Even as inexpensive as they are, its only a bargain if it suits your needs. Keep us posted.


    Edit: And all you noobs, please do not take offense, there is no elegant way to say your noobs.

  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by epg0 View Post
    I just purchased a point3...can someone please tell me this isn't a piece of junk
    You're fine ... unless you go huckin it off a house or something

    http://forums.mtbr.com/motobecane/de...to-745498.html

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Get someone to post a reliable frame weight, that would tell you a lot. Its not the whole story but its a start. Overweight frames tend to feel dead ime. If it comes in at a reasonable weight it could be a viable option. Ride reports would be nice but they tend to be unreliable because most owners are as noob as noob can be. Try to find a good ride report. Even as inexpensive as they are, its only a bargain if it suits your needs. Keep us posted.
    Weight .... good point. The Cobria I rode at the shop had SunTour on it. I am guessing around 5+ and entry level fork since the RS Recon on the Point 4 weighs about 4-5lbs. The Reba RL on the Pont5 weights about 3.5 lbs and that is why I would even go with the P5 over the P4 ... for the upgrades and price point of $1099. I had the shop weight the Cobria and it felt OK when I rode it at 30.5 lbs. I could not have the Superfly weighed as it was at an event on the trials. But I am sure it is lighter than either the P5 or the Cobria (and is should be at $2309 msrp). But with the parts on the P5 (except the heavy wheels and tires) it seems like a good deal ... even if I swap the frame later.

    If I ever get one ... I will break the whole thing down before I put it together and weigh every part. (see my page 2 sheet on my Spider )

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Edit: And all you noobs, please do not take offense, there is no elegant way to say your noobs.
    Blah ha ha ha ha ... LMAO

  50. #450
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    Wheels is probably where I would not be afraid to spend some money, big returns for the dollar. Tubeless Ready for sure.

  51. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Wheels is probably where I would not be afraid to spend some money, big returns for the dollar. Tubeless Ready for sure.
    But would a wheel upgrade pretty much cancel out any "deal" one is getting on a BD bike in the first place?

    The wheels on the Superfly AL Elite are

    Bontrager 28-hole FCC alloy front hub, Shimano M525 SL 32-hole alloy rear hub; Bontrager Mustang Disc 29 rims, Tubeless Ready
    Wondering if these wheels would be that much lighter and better than the BD Point 5 choice.

    WTB SPEED DISC 29x32H rims, Black anodized Aluminum with Gravity Hubs by Formula Sealed Ball Bearing Disc with Quick Release
    The Prowlers on the P5 are probably pretty heavy ... but would be tubeless not long after I took possession. (And would probably swap them early on too)

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1 View Post
    But would a wheel upgrade pretty much cancel out any "deal" one is getting on a BD bike in the first place?

    The wheels on the Superfly AL Elite are



    Wondering if these wheels would be that much lighter and better than the BD Point 5 choice.



    The Prowlers on the P5 are probably pretty heavy ... but would be tubeless not long after I took possession. (And would probably swap them early on too)



    Now you get into what many people have tried to point out in many of these threads. How much of a bargain is it when you start talking about upgrading a new bike? The same can be said for any new bike but most will agree the wheels on the moto are truly in need of an upgrade. Add the price of a wheel set and draw some some comparisons. The margin begins to narrow, making it more difficult to choose.

  53. #453
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    But wondering ... are the Bontrager's that much different in weights than the WTBs. ... Guessing so as one is a 28 and the other is a 32 spoke.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Now you get into what many people have tried to point out in many of these threads. How much of a bargain is it ...
    OK so been reviewing all the Gravity Point Models and searching the wheels on the web ... It would seem the Wheel Set is the same across the entire Point model line up. On the entry level models (1, 2 and maybe even the 3) not a bad choice for the price point. But if buying the bike for a parts hanger ... in the 4 and 5 the WTBs are a marginal choice for the price and at $1399 for the Point6 it does not seem like a good choice at all. The only real upgrade from the 5 to the 6 is going up to XTR and maybe cranks - for $300.

    So for the money, it would seem the Point 5 would probably be the best parts to price choice - and even at that with the WTB wheel set it is still marginal if you dont want entry level and dont want to repalce most parts with a frame upgrade. Going higher to the Point6 really starts cancelling out the "value". Would be nice if the 5 and 6 had a more competitive wheel set.

    But keep in mind ... a Reba RL by itself goes for $439 and maybe just under $400 on ebay.

  55. #455
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    Any criticism of a $350 no shipping serviceable 29er is shite.

    Until this point in time (thanks China) there is no way you could have every gotten this quality for that price.

    I bought one for commuting and after changing out the rear cog to a 15 tooth (33 front) the bike works great. Stamped steel $5ea at Universal btw. The cheapo brakes even work well, if you know how to set up brakes.

    I didn't weigh mine (19) but a friend weighed his 21 inch and it is 28.3 lbs. Not really that bad at all.

    They aren't bespoke art but there is nothing wrong with the welds and the frame is thin wall tubing and the frame is likely powder coated so no worries there either. The flared head tube with integrated headset is pretty trick. The fork is beefy and may translate into a stiffer ride but hey it's a rigid bike, no matter what people think rigid bikes are RIGID. I'm sure a custom $3000 steel frame would feel better, if you could find one for $3K, but that is a ridiculous comparison. Almost any aluminum rigid frame is going to be stiff.

    I don't need the bike to perform off road so I can't comment on that aspect. I have FS for that.

    The bike handles well and the components and wheels (WTB rims and tires) are fine.

    It's $350! bros.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Any criticism of a $350 no shipping serviceable 29er is shite.



    I don't need the bike to perform off road so I can't comment on that aspect



    It's $350! bros.




    Your joking right?

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    Your joking right?
    Try and think a little more abstractly. Just because I don't need it to perform off road doesn't mean that it won't. There is nothing odd or really crap about it or anything at all that makes it incapable off road. So I don't really understand your point.

    I have no vested interest. I don't sell bikes. I'm just saying there is no reason not to buy it if you are looking in that price range. There are lots of others too but I happen to buy this one.
    Last edited by modifier; 03-13-2012 at 10:06 AM.

  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Get someone to post a reliable frame weight, that would tell you a lot. Its not the whole story but its a start. Overweight frames tend to feel dead ime. If it comes in at a reasonable weight it could be a viable option.
    FWIW to anyone who may find this thread and wonder. Someone did weigh the bike and frame. Here is the findings for a 15.5. I would guess the 17.5 might be 100g more + or - But this weight is actually pretty on par with other frames in this size.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipsidem View Post
    I bought the Gravity 29point5 in size small from Bikes Direct last week. It arrived Monday. Out of the box it weighed 28.8 pounds without the pedals that came with it. I installed a Stan's No Tubes kit, swapped the entire cockpit, and put on my Crank Bros. Candy pedals. It weighs 26.6 now. The wheelset is heavy (~2260 grams). The tires are kinda heavy (725 grams each).This bike could weigh less than 25 pounds without going totally crazy on a new wheelset and tires.
    Quote Originally Posted by flipsidem View Post
    Just in case anybody is curious, the 15.5 inch Gravity frame weighs 1832 grams (4.04 lbs) one my digital scale. That is a shade over 4 pounds. That weight includes the derailleur hanger and maybe a few grams of dirt.

  59. #459
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    It's Mike!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect View Post
    Thank you
    I think you will find the gravity 29er line is most like the aluminum fisher 29er hardtails
    And that the point 2, point 3, point 4, and point 5 models will be up on BD site in a few days

    Once these bikes get in the hands of enough riders there will be little question that their quality, weight, and performance will equal bikes selling in bike shops all over the USA

    A point 6 model will be added for 2012 which will be even higher spec than the 2011 point 5 (which is X9 / Reba )

    It takes time for some to understand what new bikes like these are about
    But it will come around
    Hi Mike, tell me if I am wrong but here is what I see.

    I am a 6 week owner of a Trek Cobia. Two weeks ago I realized I have serious buyers remorse. While I love my bike, it cost me $1099.00 plus a couple of small additions. When I look over the Point 4 or Point 5, the components are 2-4 steps higher in quality, but right on par in price.

    Tale of 2 29er Hardtails

    Example 1: Deraileurs on my bike are SRAM X5- the Point 5 has SRAM X.9
    Example 2: Crankset is SRAM S800 ($78 retail)- the Point 5 has FSA V-Drive ($135)
    Example 3: RockShox Recon Silver TK- the Point 5 has Reba Fork ($200 difference)

    The Biggest Surprise
    Example 4: The frames have the same Geometry

    Now there are more differences, but all of them are an improvement in the Point 5 over my new Cobia...and the pricing is IDENTICAL.

    I could have bought a HECK of a lot more bike from you, then I did/could have from my LBS for a TON less money!

  60. #460
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    I also was considering several different 29er HTs from different LBS. Primarily considering Trek GF and Specialized. Finally decided on the Gravity 29point1. I might have purchased one of their "higher" models with better specs but none of those were available in my size, 21/large. Upon purchase and setup by my Cycle Spectrum store, I realized immediately that I would like to upgrade some of the key components.

    First up was the crank/bottom bracket. Upgraded to the Shimano SLX HollowTech II with external bearing bottom bracket, and WOW what an improvement, the new/better part combined with the adjustments that the install tech at my LBS did to the derauillers made it like a new bike. Pedals and shifts smooth as butter now.

    Next up was the brakes. Axed the Tektro Novellas and got Avid BB7s with 180mm G2 clean sweep rotors front and rear. Bike actually stops when I need it to now, and no fussing with finicky hydraulics.

    So I've upgraded the going and the stopping now to upgrade the handling. After much research I got the Manitou Tower Expert 100mm fork and upgraded the spring to the firm. VERY nice upgrade.

    Also have done some comfort upgrades. New pedals, stem and grips. The Ergon GP1 grips are outstanding. Totally solved my problem with hand numbness and turned my rides into 2 hours of fun, not suffering.

    I now have a crackin' ride that I am very happy with. Total amount of money spent including original bike/assembly, parts and installation of those parts - $1200. By the way the bike weighs just over 31 lbs in the 21" frame size, not too bad.

    Look around at the various offerings from Specialized, Trek, Fuji, and others and you will see that in the $1100 - $1350 price range NONE of those bikes surpass mine and many are inferior in their key components. Almost all those bikes come with low to middle components, most come with crappy Suntour forks. Great example the Specialized Rockhopper comp 29 comes with a Suntour fork, Shimano Acera and Deore ders and Avid Elixer 1 hydros for $1100. Really?

    One interesting bike in this class is the Jamis Dragon 29 Sport, chromoly frame, Manitou Tower Expert fork, SRAM X7 ders - NICE bike for $1350 but this bike is an exception not the rule in this price category.

    As far as my bike goes, yes it is a Gravity frame, but it is loaded with nice components and rides like a champ. The frame is supposedly very similar to the Gary Fisher G2, I don't know if that's true or not and frankly I don't care. The frame is probably made by the same company either in China or Taiwan using the same materials and technology. How much different could the two frames possibly be? And would those subtle differences even be noticeable?

    The great thing is the only person that has to be happy with my Gravity bike is ME!! And I am happy every time I ride it. Every time I go into my LBS and have them do work on my bike they are happy to see me and have my business. They have never looked down on me or my bike and have even commented on how nice it is now with all the upgrades I have done. If I had it to do over again I would probably do the same thing. The low initial cost of the Gravity 29point 1 gave me money in my pocket to spend on the parts I felt needed to be upgraded. I did a lot of research and shopping and got great parts for the money, which resulted in a much better bike.

    In the future, if the frame turns out to be inferior, (and that's a BIG IF) and breaks I can always replace it with something really nice like a Niner EMD frame for about $350. My total outlay on the bike would still be relatively low at $1600. BTW a new stock Niner EMD is $2300.

    That's my two cents on Gravity bikes, sermon over...

  61. #461
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    In the future, if the frame turns out to be inferior, (and that's a BIG IF) and breaks I can always replace it with something really nice like a Niner EMD frame for about $350. My total outlay on the bike would still be relatively low at $1600. BTW a new stock Niner EMD is $2300.
    Which is exactly what I did. After a couple rides I decided to build the Gravity frame into a cheap MTB nd sold it. Took the best parts off of the Gravity and built a Niner EMD.

    Love it

  62. #462
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    Ok, I am pretty sure I am going for the Gravity 29.1 but am going crazy trying to figure out what size to order, 17.5 or 19.

    I am 5'9-5'10 without shoes, 185lb, 31" inseam using the book method without shoes on.

    What do you guys suggest? My friend suggests the 19, I am thinking more of the 17.5.. ahhh! Help??

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmblalock View Post
    Ok, I am pretty sure I am going for the Gravity 29.1 but am going crazy trying to figure out what size to order, 17.5 or 19.

    I am 5'9-5'10 without shoes, 185lb, 31" inseam using the book method without shoes on.

    What do you guys suggest? My friend suggests the 19, I am thinking more of the 17.5.. ahhh! Help??
    17.5" Gravity has a SO of 30.51"/775mm
    19" Gravity has a SO of 31.3"/795mm

    other details on the bikes geometry are here:
    gravitybikes.com/mountain/29point1-29er-mtb.html (I can't post links yet )
    Hope this helps...

  64. #464
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    Ignore stand over, it is the most misused figure in fitting. 5'10" w/ a 31" inseam could comfortably ride a 19" frame Moto. Visit you're LBS and try out a few to get a feel for it.

  65. #465
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    I'm 5' 10" with a short (30") inseam and long arms/reach and I felt the 17.5 Gravity 29point5 was a bit too big for me. (I used to ride a 17.5" on 26er HT's)

    My Niner EMD is a 16.5-17" and the fit is perfect

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    I am 6' 2" and bought the 21 frame. I thought it was WAY too big for me at first but a lot of that was adjusting to the 29er. Now I love it and can't figure out how I ever rode the old 26 bike

    My suggestion is to find a LBS that has the Trek Gary Fisher bikes and test ride the various frame sizes of those. The geometry of the Gravity 29point series is supposedly very similar to the GF G2.

  67. #467
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    I am 6 feet tall and went with a 19 inch. I shortened the stem to 75mm (I dont like riding with long stems on mountain bikes) and went with a 710mm wide flatbar. I have a couple inches of drop between the seat and the bars. It fits great. The setup is very comfortable for me. I find the cornering excellent; due in large part to the wide bars and position I am placed. Great for climbing too. Pete

  68. #468
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    Thanks guys, I think I will try the 17.5!

  69. #469
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    This is an excellent resource to aid you in selecting the proper size frame geo.

    Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist

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    I'm close

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay5280 View Post
    Ok so is there on here who like my self is 6'1 and 280? and who rides a 29er since that's what I want to buy.
    I was 315 and 6 foot when I bought my first 29er. Gary Fisher Cobia. I love it. I have a short lower torso and long arms and uper torso so the G2 geometry fits my body well. The bike I have had for 2 years and it's still going strong.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

  71. #471
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    Ok.. had to throw in my 2-cents into this cheap bike discussion.

    I bought a Gravity 29Point1 from Bikes Direct.
    I was laid up with a broken collarbone and had time to assemble it properly.
    The shifting tweaked nicely (I'm used to making Target bikes behave).
    I loosened all the hardware for fastening the disc caliper to the mount and wrapped a rubber band around the pull and centered it by adjusting the static pad. Works great.

    I've put 300-400 miles on it and have a few things to say.

    It's heavy. What a truck !!
    But, it seems to cover ground faster than my old Novara 26".
    I am still using the WTB Prowlers that came with the bike they are superb but i'm shopping for a 700 x 38 to see what 80-psi will do :-)
    Cornering is very predictable and my toes never hit the tires.
    The 29" wheels really do make a difference in climbing curbs and softening the jar of bumps and once you get that milk truck up to speed the momentum really helps against the wind and inclines.
    I ride with the fork locked quite often and have grown to like it that way (I do rail trails).
    It shifts very smooth and dependable.
    You can panic stop it without doing an OTB header. The stock discs brakes are very good.
    They squeek now / then but i don't care.

    In short... all I've added is a bag for my phone and patch kit, a pump and that's it.
    All the stock components have served very well and I have no complaints at all.

    BTW the cheapest way to get a lighter bike is to lose a few pounds off the mid-section :P
    Gravity ... is a harsh mistress

  72. #472
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    I also got this bike and really like it. I've put some abuse on it and it takes it very well. I don't feel it's very heavy, I weighed mine today at roughly 31lb, the same as my friends 26" Garg Fisher.

  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmblalock View Post
    I also got this bike and really like it. I've put some abuse on it and it takes it very well. I don't feel it's very heavy, I weighed mine today at roughly 31lb, the same as my friends 26" Garg Fisher.
    I swear it seems to weigh a lot over my old 26er. Sooner or later i'll have to get my feet on a scale and hold the bike eh :-)
    Gravity ... is a harsh mistress

  74. #474
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    I'm looking at buying a Gravity 29er but I'm not sure about the frame size. It appears that the single speed Gravity G29 frame doesn't have the dimensions advertised on bikesdirect. Would any of you be willing to measure the Effective Top Tube length of your 29point1? I put a post up here: Anyone have any experience with the Gravity G29 SS? - Page 8 - Mtbr Forums explaining the issue and the following post is directions on how to measure it if you're not sure.

    I really like the feel of the Trek G2 bikes (same geometry) but want to make SURE that this is going to be the same... Thanks!

  75. #475
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    Hey everyone,

    I'm brand new to this forum and it was this long thread that brought me here. I had been researching the Gravity 29Point1 and wanted to find something about it, google lead me here. I read just about all of the 400+ posts and here I am 9 months from the last post. I'm half expecting to be called a shill but the latter set of replies seemed positive.

    Here's my deal, I presently own a Fuji Absolute 3.0, I've added a carbon fork and upgraded the wheel-set. It serves me well for road & path. I want to get into a solid entry level mountain bike so I impulsively bought a Specialized Hardrock (26er, no disc, low level components). I realized this was a little TOO entry level for me, other than the name Specialized, it's not much of a bike when you sum up the parts. I debated upgrading the bike but I don't know enough of cassette / component compatibility to do it right. Also, it's a 26er and I am now leaning towards the larger 29 wheel. I shouldn't have a problem getting what I paid for it, it's still 'like new'.

    This morning I purchased the Gravity 29Point1 and expect it mid next week. The components look to be mid-range, or at minimum above 'entry' level. It's got about the same component set that came on my original Trek FX 7.5. I realize the fork is probably junk, but I'm thinking for what I'm going to use it for, it should be fine. I don't plan on hopping over rocks, I'll be on the 'easy' trails for the first set of rides.

    I'll probably be back to post a review / pics but I don't have a mountain background so it will be more general, I won't be able to talk in depth about geometry or fork rebound.

    One argument that went back and forth on this thread was whether or not to purchase from your LBS or online. I have a great relationship with my LBS and expect to use it for accessories and service outside my skill-set. I bought my upgraded wheels there also. My LBS has a very limited stock of new bikes, in fact he's trying to go entirely resale. I almost hesitated to ask him if he could order me a bike because he's much more focused on the service & accessories side of the business. He does have a Trek OCLV Carbon Mtn bike for $600 but it's $600 and over 10 years old. I know Trek has some great mid/higher end bikes but the age & carbon scared me off.

    The next closest 'bike shop' is a national chain and it's almost like Best Buy for bikes. I got a great deal on my Fuji Absolute about 5 years ago then they closed the store and now the closest is about 30 min away.

    So that's my story, I'm hoping this bike meets my expectations and I can advise on the brand "Gravity". Thanks for all those who helped on this thread.

  76. #476
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    Bike Received / Put together / Tuned by LBS (PICTURES)

    Received the bike yesterday. I was able to put most of it together but brought it by my LBS to look everything over.

    • Bike came in a large brown box, see pics below.
    • The fork came backwards with the brake cable detached
    • The frame was covered in foam or cardboard wrapping of some kind, well protected
    • The box was in decent shape with one hole (seen in pics) but nothing that affected the bike
    • The LBS had to true the back wheel, not much but wasn't perfect
    • Bike Weight - With bar-ends & bottle holder = 34.5lbs


    <b>Impressions</b>
    I'm eager to get it on the trail later today. I am a 300lb+ rider so I am always concerned about how the wheels will hold up under my weight. The spokes look like a thinner gauge so I'm a little skeptical. They're inline with a $400 bike though, I just hope I'm not replacing them right away.

    <b>LBS Impressions</b>
    Sort of an eclectic LBS, has few <i>new</i> bikes and about as many used. While my bike was there, a gentleman tried to buy it and offered $500. Had I known this I would have sold it and bought another. My LBS owner is curious about the brand to the point we're looking into possibly stocking the Gravity brand. The tech/owner said the welds on the frame all looked good, the components and parts were all good, especially for the price. He was impressed with the build overall. We're both concerned about the wheels since he's been through this with me on my Fuji and the replacement wheels for that.

    Time to get out and ride, I'll post again later with an update.

    *I hope these pictures remain view-able, they're on pinterest

    Box Unopened


    Bike in Box


    Assembled (Fork not straightened yet)


    Back from LBS (My old bar-ends added & bottle holder)


    Cassette & Rear Derailleur


    Shifting Components Closeup

  77. #477
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    I am 5'11" 170lbs. and recently purchased a Gravity 29 Point 1 with a 19" frame, which seems to be just a tad big, but a 17.5" would probably be too small. I'm in my mid 20's and have used mostly department store bikes or "Frankenstein" type bikes my whole life. I used to do 20-25 mile treks regularly, and even did a 50 mile run in Natchez, in my teenage years, but took a hiatus from biking during college. After a bachelor party trip earlier this year where we did some trail riding in Oak Mtn State Park, I decided it was time to get back to riding. I rode some of my friends bikes out there - Trek, Specialized, Giant - and it convinced me that I needed to get a higher quality bicycle than I had been accustomed to. After unsuccessfully scouring craigslist for my ideal "quality" bike, I started doing some research for quality without the hefty price tag, and soon discovered Bikes Direct. After comparing nearly every accessory on their bikes with those of "quality" brands, I could not logically comprehend why I would pay so much more for my bike to have a "[insert name brand here]" sticker on it.

    After getting it tuned, I brought the bike out for a smooth 11.5 mile ride on a paved bike path along the lake and the bike performed wonderfully. Shifting is smooth and quiet and, although she feels a little heavier than she actually is upon startup as stated by a previous poster, she knows how to get up and go. There is a more aggressive trail by the spillway that I will be trying out next to really put the bike to the test, but I'm sure it'll do just fine. My only complaint is that the brakes aren't as strong as I'd like them to be, but I suppose that's a personal preference, and I could probably just tune them to my desired grip. But then again these are my first disc brakes on a bike, so maybe I just need to get accustomed to them?

  78. #478
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    Don't have much of a review, but I've been out on two rides. One was an intermediate / advanced trail. I didn't realize the trail was this level since I don't have any mtn experience. Keep in mind I don't know how the bike is supposed to handle in comparison to other bikes. The shock absorbed all the terrain the trail could offer, no jumps. I weigh over 300lbs so I was half expecting the fork to bottom out which didn't happen. I know it's an entry-level fork but I have no complaints.

    Shifting was clean but I was moderate and slow most of the ride so I only shifted a few times. No issues there, wouldn't expect them from a Deore derailleur.

    I was especially worried about handling with a bike this big. If I could buy it again, I'd get the 17.5 frame, I'm 6'1" and just feel like it's a very large bike. I saw BD has 27.5er coming out soon, that would probably be a happy medium between the bikes, but it sounds like that's going to be really niche and probably hard to get parts for.

    I still feel like the wheels are weak but that's more of a weight issue on my part. They held up fine on the trail under my weight. I've already got the replacement set of wheels picked out if these start blowing out spokes.

    The 2nd ride was on a paved trail around a lake. Shifting was fine, used the lockout on the fork which was nice. Nothing else really to report. Working on finding trails that fit my entry-level mountain bike riding. I'll keep riding and I'll find something.

  79. #479
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    I picked mine up from the LBS today. I am 6'2/33" inseam and went with the 17.5" frame. It feels great! I'm glad I went with this size.
    Picked it up in grey (which looks a whole lot better in person than in the BD pic). Almost went bronze, almost.
    Only had time for a 5 minute ride as a storm was rolling in but all seemed well during that time.

  80. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by domoMKIV View Post
    I picked mine up from the LBS today. I am 6'2/33" inseam and went with the 17.5" frame. It feels great! I'm glad I went with this size.


    ?????????????? Seriously? FWIW, I too am 6'2"/33" inseam and comfortably ride bike frames 4/5" larger.

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    ?????????????? Seriously? FWIW, I too am 6'2"/33" inseam and comfortably ride bike frames 4/5" larger.
    My last mtn bike had a 21" frame and was fine. I have a road bike with probably a 23" frame, it's an accident waiting to happen but it was free (dont ride it though, lol).
    I felt this bike was very comfortable in the 17.5 configuration, saw no reason to go any bigger.
    A couple others in this thread posted similar.

  82. #482
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    It's not a great looking bike, and that may be an understatement. Spray paint it black? And yes, the "compare at" prices need a bit of updating imo. I skulk around BD.. Almost bought a 12' fly team for 1,299.. They did not have any left. Was interested to see the price and look of the 27.5 Fly Team they said was coming. But most of their bikes look pretty bad at the lower ends imho.

  83. #483
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    I found this thread because of a search for the Point1. I was going to shell out $400 for a SS then saw the point1 for $420. I then saw a Point3 on The Island for $650 scuffs on cranks and drop outs. I mean it's a Mountain Bike it's going to have scuffs and lots of them if you ride it. $650 is way more than I want to spend. IMO it is worth the $650 for the X7, Juicy3, and TORA alone. Seeing how the Tora can be modified for Cheap.
    Good deals are not that good if you are $150 short.. those are the breaks I guess.

    That left Point2 as an option. and I was in limbo because Giants 17.5 Talon 5 is $500 (local) and Gravity 27five is $550. Gravity is good on components, not what I want for frame on a 27.5. Giant's Talon leave much to be desired on components. I just fail to see the Value outside the frame there.

    Anyways, three bikes for $500-$550.

    Today however the Point2 was on an Early BlackFriday sale for $399.95. Oh yeah I snagged that in Matte Black. $20 cheaper than the Point1. However I almost would have bought the Point1 just to have silver.

    My first Mountain Bike. There are many Mountain bikes in this $400-500 range and None of them have anything close to a Dart3, or Shimano Deore shifters, and this RD is SLX Shadow.

    I did my shopping, I did my size testing... the only thing I couldn't do was sit on a Gravity first. I am 5' 8 1/4" with a 30" inseam (book style measuring) I ordered the 15.5

    I suppose I can take that $100 saved and go buy a saddle and or BB7 or Hydraulics. Or some different tires.

    I know the Thread is old, but the bikes are not and the information here is very relative.

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post

    That left Point2 as an option. and I was in limbo because Giants 17.5 Talon 5 is $500 (local) and Gravity 27five is $550. Gravity is good on components, not what I want for frame on a 27.5. Giant's Talon leave much to be desired on components. I just fail to see the Value outside the frame there.

    Today however the Point2 was on an Early BlackFriday sale for $399.95. Oh yeah I snagged that in Matte Black. $20 cheaper than the Point1. However I almost would have bought the Point1 just to have silver.
    You made the right choice by going for the Point2 on Sale rather than downgrading to the Point1 for a paint color. I would have preferred the Matte Black but the silver looks fine. When I was buying earlier this summer, the Point2 was $130 more and I didn't think the component upgrades were worth it.

    I'm a heavy rider and have taken it out about 5x (I do most of my riding on my fitness bike). I'm getting more comfortable riding it. Still wish I sized down since the 29 weeks are so tall. Those 27.5's are tempting too.

  85. #485
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    my Only regret so far was PayPal.

    I wasn't paying attention to the options and the payment was e-check. So It's a 3-5 day wait before the bike will get shipped.

  86. #486
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    I figured I might want Ergon gp2 grips. Personal preference. Man this thing needs to show up.

    I could probably do some other upgrades, (wheels and brakes) but I'll probably go spend my spendable income on some better winter riding gear.

    Anyways about the wheels, supposedly these are 2260 grams. Is there any recommendations for inexpensive wheelsets?

  87. #487
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    I am confused Same tire do I want a 28x2.15 or a 29x2.0 ?

    I'd even do the 28x2.35 If I knew it would fit these WTB wheels and gravity frame without hitting the Front derailer or chain stays.

    Amazon.com: Schwalbe Big Apple HS 430 Performance RaceGuard Cruiser Bicycle Tire - Wire Bead: Sports & Outdoors

  88. #488
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    I am on the 29.2 bandwagon too. Hope to get it in this week so I can ride it on Friday. Price was just too good to pass up, although I'm already planning on selling the fork and the bb5. I have a recon and some bb7's that are begging to get on there.

    I don't know about the 28" tire. I don't even know if it's a standard tire size. Go with the 29" tire no mater what (700c tires work too and will come in smaller widths if you want to use the bike more for road/smooth trail use (ie rails-to-trails crushed gravel sort of stuff). I have a set of 700c x 40mm Kenda Happy Medium's that were great for asphalt and crushed gravel. Just not enough cushion for rocky technical trails. Also look for something with a kevlar or flexible bead. The wire bead will add unnecessary weight.

  89. #489
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    I just purchased the Gravity 29.2 for 399.95 from BD. Scared that I picked a size frame to small for me but I cant do anything about it now. got the 15.5 - my stats. 260 lb 5'8' short arms and 29.5 inseam (measured whilst straddling a book as per protocol. I am a 31 pant inseam). Please tell me I did the right thing or I have the cancel the order for the second time. First cancel was because I thought the deal was a scam. (its not) Also - should I expect the rims to break due to my weight?
    .

  90. #490
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    I am 5' 8" with a barefoot book inseam measurement of 30" arm length not real sure.

    My giant hybrid is a 19" frame at the time it was a straight up road bike, I like being stretched out, however after 20 miles that was a bad idea. It should be a 17" based on geometries of that 17 along with all of the bikes I was comfortable on Cannondale Trail, Giant talon, Haro.. I took bikes direct advice on height and ordered the 15.5
    I also cross referenced geo measurements. Between them all.
    Also,
    Based on post #398
    And also post #346 (states he is 5'10") and #348 (link to pictures of that 5'10" guy on a 17.5)
    I think I am confident the 15.5 Gravity 29.2 will be good for me. If I need more set back seat post plus a longer stem.

    Yes I had spent hours researching geometries and test riding bikes at local shops. I was only debating on if I wanted to pull the trigger on the 29.2 for $499 or call the shop and get the 8 speed x5 650b Giant Talon for $511 after tax. The $500 talon left a lot to be desired but so does the $1,300 and $1,700 650b talons. Thus I was going to just do the bottom and then upgrade it my way. X7 stuff! Which brings me to how tempting the point3 was on bike island for $650.

    Even at $400 for point2 the point3 size 15.5 for $650 was better buy. However I am still debating the 650b vs 29. I like the 650b better but needed a bike that could commute also. Thus the 29er wins. I may just upgrade brakes and put slicks on it call it a day. Depending on how I feel about it come spring time I'll upgrade or get a new 29 or 650b. In the mean time this makes a great inexpensive do it all bike for me. That is still more bike and $300 less than a component = Giant or Cannondale.


    Seeing it for $399 was the tipping point, it will also be my first bikes direct or mail order bike.

    The question is which shop do I take it to after the build to get it tried and tuned. All of them will be mad at me.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    The question is which shop do I take it to after the build to get it tried and tuned. All of them will be mad at me.
    Any respectable bike shop should do it without complaining. They'll of course tell you that you got ripped off, and the general quality of the bike is so much worse, the bearings are horrible, bla bla bla. In reality, they're comparable to the sub $700 bikes from your LBS. Not great, but good.

    If you're looking at a hassle free LBS experience, I'd recommend a larger chain store (REI or Sports Authority type store) that has a bike shop, or just look for the largest/cleanest bike shop in your area.

    However, I've bought some bikes online, and putting them together really isn't that hard. Much better to learn to do the initial set-up yourself. You'll be able to fix stuff on the trail, plus have more confidence in identifying what to do when something just doesn't feel right. Worst case scenario, you completely fudge it up. Just undo the bolts, look up videos on youtube, and start over again. It really is that easy.

  92. #492
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    On topic

    Watts, I saw your FB post on Bikesdirect, I really messed up using paypal and not catching that it was going to be an e-check payment.

    You get yours Tomorrow (Wednesday)? hahah Paypal sucks!
    Edit: !!!!!!
    eCheck estimated completion: Oct 17, 2013 - Oct 21, 2013. We advise merchants not to ship until they receive payment.
    That will be the last time that I make that mistake!

    I keep looking at BB7 or Elixer3 upgrade. Instead of that though I'll do the more important stuff Like Ergon grips (GP3), A Light (Mine is sort of Permantly fixed to my Road bike, well a bolt but still.
    Also probably flip flop/dual purpose SPD pedals, as I am guessing that half of this winter I'll be in my Wolverine boots instead of my SPD shoes.

    Nashbar Soho Pedals any good?

    or should I stick with Shimano Dual purpose?

    Off topic

    Actually my closest Local bike shop is a really good guy. He sold me my Synapse 105 at $1,250 instead of $1,550. I was just talking to him recently about the Cannondale Quick CX4 (rigid) or a Cannondale trail 29er. Outside of the Quick CX, I am pretty sure he knew ahead of time he'd lose out on a 29'er sale. I've been gripping about Cannondales idea of components on the Trails.
    I think he might give me some grief, however he understand my budget. Grief simply because he and I gripe about how stuff is cheaper on the net, and how people like Giro and Shimano etc.... are mostly to blame.
    My other favorite bike store.... meh they had a chance to sell me first on the Synapse 105. I really wanted a raw/black color with a splash of red. They and I both knew there wasn't anymore to order as they was sold out, so they wouldn't come down on the price on the one they had in stock. I simply went with a white one (for being anal about color, I am more anal about price) !! .
    They (Second shop) also sells the Giant 27.5 Talon..... however 8 speed x5?? with tektro mech disc brakes for $500 suntour XTC fork.

    I'll get BB5, Deore 9 speed, dart3 for $400

    Neither shop has anything to gripe about other than loyalty. And Loyalty be damned I'm on a budget.

    The guy that sold me the synapse.... I'll make it up to him and buy some more accessories.

    I doubt either will tell me I got ripped off, I only fear how I get treated after this. Example: the Trek/Raleigh shop because I ride Cannondale road. Or maybe because I've been in there 10 times and haven't bought anything other than a saddle bag.

  93. #493
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    I like paypal for online shopping. dual protection from them and the credit card company. Never give out a bank account number.

    BB7 are the way to go for mechanical (good hydro's are better, but more expensive). No problem locking up wheels with them. BB5 just doesn't have quite as much surface area. Still great brakes and they stomp tektro novelas, but not as good as their big brother.

    Nothing for or against the soho pedals. Stick with shimano if that's what you're other pedals are. Good quality. I have a dual purpose shimano pedal on one of my bikes. Great for road/light trail, but if I'm on a real trail where you don't have any time, I want to click in quick and not worry about which side is up. One of the reviews on the Soho say they rotate easily so the clip is always up, but I have a hard time believing that they're that smooth after a couple hundred hard miles.

  94. #494
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    Had my gravity 29.1 for about 9 month 1500 miles. Really good bike for the money. I'm 220lb and ride fairly aggressively, but my stock wheels are still mostly true and wheel bearings and bottom bracket are still solid to my surprise, I used to destroy this components in half the time on similarly priced brand name bikes. It has Reba rlt and XT/SLX ice tech brakes and some other upgrades now which will be transferred to my next frame, but I never regretted going with this bike instead of brand name bike.

  95. #495
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    I just bought a Gravity 29Point2 and it arrives tomorrow. Getting back into biking with my teenage son after a long hiatus; we'll see how it goes; both the bike and me that is.

  96. #496
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    Seriously....

    6 days just to clear funds? Anyways good news and hopefully BD ships tomorrow.
    I still have no idea what went wrong there.

    Hello Cyclinglymie,

    The $399.95 USD eCheck payment you made to [email protected] has cleared.

    Here are the details:

    Total amount $399.95 USD
    Transaction date October 11, 2013

  97. #497
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    Just to prove it really happened.
    New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?-my-gravity-29point2_1280.jpg

  98. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitey019 View Post
    Just to prove it really happened.
    That looks very nice! I went with black also.

    Mine shipped now. If it wasn't for PayPal I'd be riding it right now.

  99. #499
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    I got the same - black Grav 29.2. I ordered new brake levers and pedals as well. From what I have read, the rims and tires are not very good and should wear out quickly with frequent use. Looking at getting replacements asap. The Dart 3 fork is also low end so that will need to be replaced eventually. As far as the Avid BB5 brakes - I have the same on another bike and havent had any issues. They are easy to adjust and clean. Something to replace farther down the road but will work for a good long while.

  100. #500
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    Ordered it Sunday. Got mine in Wednesday night. Put it together (about 3 hours, but I was swapping parts and doing a pretty thorough build), but can't ride it because of rain. Curse you rain gods. Can already tell the wheels will need trued, but I'm going to do some casual road riding to get a feel for it before I true it up. I like the black much better than I thought I would. Was really afraid the lettering would be as blazing white as it looked on the BD website, but it's actually more of a metallic grey. The matt frame isn't my favorite though. Got some grease on my hands. Fingerprints and smears everywhere. If that's my only complaint, it's pretty good.

    Basic info:
    Gravity 29.2

    Bought the 21" and it does fit a bit large. I'm 6'5" with a 35" standover. It's got about 1.5" clearance when I stand over the bar. Very, very similar to my 23" motobecane elite hybrid.

    Weight: 33lb 7.8 oz based on a small kitchen scale measuring stuff individually. Not going to guarantee my math is good. Didn't go over it a second time.
    rear wheel w/ tire - 6lb 7.7oz,
    front wheel 5 lb 0oz
    seat & post 1lb 10.2oz
    pedals - 14.4 oz
    stem & spacers - 9oz
    fork (xc28 TK) and front bb5 w/ cable - 5 lb 7.5 oz
    handlebar & levers/shifters - 2lb 10oz
    frame and everything else already on the frame (crankset,BB derailures, cables) - 10 lb 10oz

    Parts:
    The bike comes with 180 rotors front and rear. Didn't notice that when I bought it. I like it.
    Handlebar has the large diameter almost to the levers. I swapped grips for some longer lock-ons grips that I have. Made moving the levers in impossible, and made mounting bike computer almost impossible. Had to jerry-rig something off the reflector mounting bracket. Probably going to replace it at some point. Heavy has heck too.
    I bought the 21" XL frame, but the fork came with the medium spring????

  101. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Taylor View Post
    As far as the Avid BB5 brakes - I have the same on another bike and havent had any issues. They are easy to adjust and clean. Something to replace farther down the road but will work for a good long while.
    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    The bike comes with 180 rotors front and rear. Didn't notice that when I bought it. I like it.
    Handlebar has the large diameter almost to the levers. I swapped grips for some longer lock-ons grips that I have. Made moving the levers in impossible, and made mounting bike computer almost impossible. Had to jerry-rig something off the reflector mounting bracket. Probably going to replace it at some point. Heavy has heck too.
    I bought the 21" XL frame, but the fork came with the medium spring????
    I didn't notice that either, but now I do thanks to you bring it up. For some reason I just assumed that the point2 has 160's like the Point1. I suppose this means, I do not really need bb7's or at least it is not a priority. The Short front brake cable is an eye sore though! imo




    My point2 gets delivered on Wednesday! *happy dance*

  102. #502
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    I don't plan to change much. As you can see, I've added a water bottle cage and a seat bag. The only other thing is the pedals and I have a set of MG-1's on the way.

  103. #503
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    Good deal for this point2? I think it would need cut down, easy enough though.

    Forté Team 720 Flat Handlebars - Mountain Handlebars

  104. #504
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    I saw that bar along with one on Nashbar that I'm considering, especially with their free shipping right now (want some new pedals too, don't need, just want) but I think I might wait a bit to see how the stock bar rides right now. Only downside was the imability to mount an old light and can't move the shifters in. Hopefully the wider grips will offset that some. Still haven't been able to get out to ride though. Spent all Sunday at the emergency room with my kid. Trying to ask a 2 year old where it hurts is impossible.

  105. #505
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    Whoops, I assumed it is a 31.8 mm stem clamp? I thought I read that, yet it doesn't say on the spec page.

    I bought the Forte 720 Flatbar ^ and Ergon GP1 grips. I'll just cut the bar down to what ever size I like.

    Hopefully you got it figured out where it hurts on the 2 year old!!

  106. #506
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    Let us know how that bar works out & post some pics. Just checked and it looks like they're all out of stock now.

    Still no idea what was wrong with my kid. Couple nights of her waking up and random total freakouts during the day screaming of stomach pains. Spent all day at the ER, x-rays, ultrasounds, cat-scan, etc... doctors couldn't find anything. She's still complaining sometimes, but it's better. At the end of the day, all that matters is she's healthy.

    I don't even want to know what this cost though. Could probably buy 3 or 4 more bikes. It was sorta interesting to see her on morphine though. 2 year olds say the strangest things when they're high.

  107. #507
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    Well I might have messed up, they had a Shorter 580 in store with a 5 degree sweep on clearance for $8. (I bought the display 720 forte, their last one). My Hybrid has the same sweep this 720 has but is probably more like 580 ish in length. So should have I bought the $8 one? yeah! I should have gotten both. Then took one back, Oh well.

    My bike shows up tomorrow, Worse case scenario I decide to make the drive and exchange it. I am guessing that I'll like the extra width though. Especially since trail riding will be the least this bike sees on usage, or simply the trails I'll be using mostly are 4 wheeler trails. so 3-4 foot wide.

    Yeah I know I could have saved 15% online but I drove to the store anyways.

    Pain, nothing on test.... freaking out child.... ouch!!

    I'll try to get some pictures up tomorrow of the bar and the Ergon grips, if not tomorrow. Then by Friday.
    I am actually still worried about it being a 15.5 all the numbers say it's right but... still worried.

  108. #508
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    I'll see how this one does after I get a couple rides on the stock bar. bought the chrome because, hey it's cheap at $7 and I wanted to see how I like flat bars. It's also the 7075 aluminum, which should make it stiffer and it looks to be super light. I will probably get a wider one with more rise down the road, but that'll be next year. Winter came up too fast, and way too many things planned for the next couple weekends.

    Amazon.com: Control Tech SUP MT 28A MTB Flat Handlebar, 600mm, High Polish Silver: Sports & Outdoors

  109. #509
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    no pictures as of yet. The flat black looks good in person!! really good. Meaning the Fork will get de-stickered along with the wheels.

    I had an old stem laying around 7 degree 100mm I took one look at the factory bars and stem and cringed. I jumped on it and was like no way. So yes it got the Forté Team 720 Flat Handlebars along with my old stem Plus the Ergon GP! grips. I also took 1 small steer tube spacer out. The sweep makes up for the extra 10mm on stem. I haven't rode it yet... However from sitting on it I am thinking I'll cut about an inch off each side. Making it about a 670 mm bar. I'll ride it first before cutting anything though. LBS has a Black/silver take off synapse seat $20. I like the seat on my road bike so it makes sense to just run the same seat on this.

    15.5 good choice!! this is a big FRAME!

    it is heavy but no more so than the $800-900 Cannondale trail 29er.
    Light wheels with Racing Ralphs would drop heaps of weight, as would seat/seatpost

    all the junk a guy changes on a $1,000 29er anyways.

  110. #510
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    I still need to de-sticker the wheels and fork.

    The Forté bar still isn't cut. I think it needs Racing Ralphs or Big apple/Big Bens upgrade. How ever the WTB Prowlers will do for now.

    Brakes are a bit weak but they'll get the job done. Over all I am impressed for $399.95 + $24.99 (bar) and
    $24.99 (grips) The stem I already had sitting here.
    I still need to put on my Shimano SPD pedals.
    So $450 bones.... as it is in the pictures. I'm happy!!

    Well okay I might have been happier with a 27.5... but that's another story.

    A link to more photos Gravity Point2 - a set on Flickr


    DSC00159 by CyclingLymie, on Flickr

    Closing argument.... This Gravity is Awesome!
    The cheap schtuff on it that people complain about.. we swap that on $1,000 bikes anyways. Bars/stems/seat post/saddles/pedals/wheel sets/tires So that can't be held against BD or this bike. The value for the Money! Very liveable. This attitude coming from a guy that wants stuff his way.

    I might eventually do the brakes, I might not. I might do seat post/saddle more than likely not. Wheels yeah but probably not.

    I'll probably ride it like it is and then replace the tires when needed. and the brakes when the pads wear out. A saddle only if I find a Really good deal on a take off or used Specialized Toupe, or something. this saddle Looks good... Amazon.com: Selle Italia Q-Bik SE Saddle - BLACK: Sports & Outdoors

    However.... I think I'll spend whats left of the bike budget on a pair of endura singletrack pants.

    Happy enough, still peeved at Paypal and the 7 day wait.. but Oh well. Thanks BD, and Thanks everyone for all the posts new/old. I am glad I suffered through the first 6 pages of BD bashing (shameful), because for the money this is the best purchase ever. No regrets.

    Bonus was the $100 off.... pre black Friday sale.

  111. #511
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    actually $200 off. they dropped it from $600 to $500 about a month ago. Almost worth it at $500. Definately was not worth it at $600.

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    what other options (other than used) are there at $600? actually that is a stupid question, Because I agree.... with you that at $600 it is not worth it.... and neither is anything else at $600.

    At $600 I might have been interested in a $600 Cannondale Trail 29er... but only because of the Save Chain stays.

    then again at $600 I probably wouldn't have bought either one, the Gravity point2 or the C'dale.

    Trek GF Marlin SS is $600. I wouldn't do that......

    After riding this today..... It suits my purpose as a can do trails, but its purpose being the average farm off road stuff / commuter, yet fully capable of zooming down the trails.

    If I was doing XC I'd want to spend the money... how ever this bike + wheels and other items is capable of that at the same price as others. If I decide I want a 29er dedicated trail bike then this will be powder coated and blinged w/ Reba X9 etc....

    I am guessing that for dedicated trail bike (for me). 650b

    This thing screams down the road at a good speed, As is... these tires are going to suck once the snow hits though. I bet I'll be buying Schwalbe semi-slick balloons.

  113. #513
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    Gravity 29er Point 2 - with new grips, pedals, and brake levers.

    New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?-gravity-29er-point-2-side-view.jpg

  114. #514
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    Those Ergon bar end grips look nice, and look useful.

    I had to put my Shimano SPD M505 pedals on, because the shimano dual purpose pedals wouldn't come off my hybrid. 6 years ago I ignorantly put them on without grease... which reminds me that I probably should take stuff off a re-grease it once a year, like pedals. lol

    The M505's might not be a bad thing though... It will keep people off my bike unless they have SPD shoes on and then I won't care if they ride it.

  115. #515
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    after 47 miles.... I think the seat needs changed. Not for sure where I want to go, with that. Other than that I have no real complaints.

  116. #516
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    I have a update on the Gravity 29er Point 2 pictured above. Took it on some trails last weekend and it was a solid performer. Handled the roots and rocks well (even with poor quality tires). I rode it for a solid hour on Intermediate level trails and my only complaint is a sore rear (the seat is a not as wide or soft as I prefer). The chain hits the frame often so I also recommend adding a chain guard to reduce noise and protect the metal. You can use electric tape or a old inner tube for a cheap solution (check YouTube for tutorial). Not all the bike parts are quality such as the pedals, tires, rims, and grips so be on the lookout for deals on amazon for upgrades. Overall this is the best deal for 29er that I could find. If you are in the market and remotely handy with tools (some assembly required) then buy this bike. Its a steal at the current price. Have fun on the trails!!

  117. #517
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    For sure, I agree with all of that. Brakes are weak but they do stop (if you use them).

    For a chainstay guard I picked up some flat black tennis racket grip $2.99 and then electrical taped the ends. I chose that over an old tube to be more uniform in color. however for noise I should have used a tube. Tennis racket grip isn't bad though, and also looks nice.

    The Seat is Ouch! Mondays ride was 26 miles 15 country roads, 6 urban, 5 offroad. I wore shorts under blackbottom tights. Maybe the seat just doesn't fit me. On the look out for a take off. how ever there are some $30 deals like Nashbars R1, Origin 8 Flyte and another for $31-32


    My other advice, take the tire half off the tube out and clean out the metal, i got a flat already from it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Taylor View Post
    I have a update on the Gravity 29er Point 2 pictured above. Took it on some trails last weekend and it was a solid performer. Handled the roots and rocks well (even with poor quality tires). I rode it for a solid hour on Intermediate level trails and my only complaint is a sore rear (the seat is a not as wide or soft as I prefer). The chain hits the frame often so I also recommend adding a chain guard to reduce noise and protect the metal. You can use electric tape or a old inner tube for a cheap solution (check YouTube for tutorial). Not all the bike parts are quality such as the pedals, tires, rims, and grips so be on the lookout for deals on amazon for upgrades. Overall this is the best deal for 29er that I could find. If you are in the market and remotely handy with tools (some assembly required) then buy this bike. Its a steal at the current price. Have fun on the trails!!

  118. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Taylor View Post
    ...(even with poor quality tires). ...tires, rims, and grips so be on the lookout for deals on amazon for upgrades. ...
    Why a lot of people call tires and rims poor quality? Im a newb and just curious. Wider tires are better but this tires work very well. Same with rims, after 8 month they are mostly true and I weight 210lb and anything but gentle with the bike. I upgraded brakes and fork, because they were really lacking and I could transfer it to my next bike but rims are OK for this level of a bike.

  119. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Zilcho View Post
    Why a lot of people call tires and rims poor quality? Im a newb and just curious.
    all depends on how you are riding. I am 180 lbs and I don't think the WTB wheels are stiff enough if ridden aggressively. However I don't think that matters much with the WTB Prowlers as a rider would be laying the bike down on its side riding that aggressively with them.


    I however am coming from road cycling and I ride very aggressively even at 180 I can feel wheels flex (Not my Mavic Kysirium elites though). Sprinting up shorter hills the Mavics zoom to the top, the Shimano RS10 wheelset are slugs and power drains.

    The 'Poor quality' used here with the WTB speed disc wheels is more than likely referring to performance, not quality or durability.

    I agree with you that for this bike (as it is set up), and for this price the rims are Okay. the tires are also okay for day to day riding street, gravel, or trail. (haven't had them in mud yet)

    Going down the same trails I've been riding on 700x28 slicks at 85 psi.. these Prowlers even at 35 psi have slipped on more roots than the 28's. The ramp up on the wooden bridge? same story they slip. Cornering on hard pack, I trusted the slicks better than the Prowlers there also.

    there is the weight issue also. changing the tires plus wheels could easy shave off a pound. But so could changing the fork out. Rockshok TK to a Reba... Feather vs rock. lol

    For day to day riding the wheelset/tires will work fine.

    There are the hubs to think about also.

    My mind works like this

    $400 this year for a bike, and then $400 next year for Stans Arch is $800. Still better than $1,000 bike. I'll also need tires eventually. When these wear out I can upgrade to something on sale/clearance/closeout.

    I can change the TK fork to a Reba. $400 and now I am at $1,200... WAY better than any $1,200 bike on the market.
    Add brakes,

    now I am at $1,400 If I want to spend that much.

    That is my argument for buying Gravity/Bikesdirect bikes. The stuff you upgrade, you'd probably be doing on any sub $1,600 name brand new bike anyways.

    My only irritation/annoyance so far was getting a flat while out to only find metal stuff from wheel production inside the wheel. Lucky I was in town next to a shop with big air lines a couple huge blast and the tire/wheel was clean. If this happened to other people I am sure they'll blame the Prowler for a flat.

  120. #520
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    Oh and the quip about using brakes..... I crashed over the bars already.

    I rear ended a friends truck. He stopped, I didn't thus I hit him with my bar turning my front wheel into his bed and over the bars I went. The bike came with as I was clipped in. So I now have a slightly scuffed grip, and a road rashed QR lever. A nice rash on my hip, and then a sore shoulder.

    Rumor in the neighbor hood is that I was ran over.... Works for me as it makes me sound less stupid. I suppose I need to get used to those new 720mm bars, or I'll be doing the same thing with trees.

  121. #521
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    It was used and $23. Ritchey WCS Contrail saddle sporting their vector technology. 142mm 250g
    I'd rather have a 130mm saddle I think, but all of my saddles have been in the 140 ish range.

    That puts me up to $475 with the stem, bar, grips, and (soon) saddle changed out. Also running my old SPD's.

    We'll see... Saddles are very personal though. I like the shape. Not many reviews to go on with the Ritchey contrail. Ritchey WCS Contrail Saddle Reviews - Mtbr.com

    I'm very happy with this bike! 95 miles and my only complaint is saddle. Which is hopefully fixed soon.

  122. #522
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    I also want to get this bike the p2. But they only have the 15" and 19". I am 5'9.5" and have 31" inseam doing the book measurement on my bare feet. I wanted the 17.5" but SOLD OUT! !. I don't wanna miss out on the deal. Should I just get the 19" one?

  123. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by zumogo View Post
    I also want to get this bike the p2. But they only have the 15" and 19". I am 5'9.5" and have 31" inseam doing the book measurement on my bare feet. I wanted the 17.5" but SOLD OUT! !. I don't wanna miss out on the deal. Should I just get the 19" one?
    My measurements are about the same as yours and I went with the 17.5 as you mentioned. The frame is pretty big in my opinion so if you choose to grab one you might want to go 15.5.

    Take a look at Post $510; it has a lot of pictures of the 15.5. My post #497 shows the 17.5.

  124. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by zumogo View Post
    I also want to get this bike the p2. But they only have the 15" and 19". I am 5'9.5" and have 31" inseam doing the book measurement on my bare feet. I wanted the 17.5" but SOLD OUT! !. I don't wanna miss out on the deal. Should I just get the 19" one?
    re-read the Geometry chart

    I have no idea if this is a typo'O or not, but other than stand over the 15.5 and 17.5 only have a 2 mm Effective top tube difference? Along with a 3mm wheelbase difference?

    I am 5' 8-1/4" with a (book) 30" inseam. I went with a 15.5 for stand over and have changed the stem to a 100mm 6° over the stock 90mm 10° I also put on flat 9° sweep 720mm bars cut down to 670mm bars. Edit: I may switch back to a 90mm 6° stem though so I can flip it down.
    I think I've long arms or something. As my road bike was a 56. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have bought a 54 and put on a longer stem.

    Look at the pictures linked by VTFargo in post #348 of him sitting on a 17.5 http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/ne...ml#post8280410
    VTFargo say in post #346 he is 5' 10" with a 30 inseam.

    Hard to tell you what to do here. A 15.5 is very close in size to a 17.5.
    a 19" is big difference. Re-read through this thread and see if there are other hints.

    And as always it is easier to do a set back seat post along with a longer stem/slammed stem than it is to push a seat forward and shorten a stem.

    Edit: I am super glad I went with the 15.5 on stand over because with the saddle nose hitting my back the top tube is cutting it close. Not sure where they got the Stand over measurements, as they are not that roomy IMO. This will get worse with a saddle swap, as I think the WTB speed V is a short.

    My road bike race geometery was too big, and my hybrid is too big. My new road bike is awesome, and this 15.5 Gravity is awesome.. I never want to be stretched out again! It's painful!

  125. #525
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    Re: New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?

    There are no 19" bikes available either, regardless of what's in the drop down menu. Sad I missed out on that deal.

  126. #526
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    Is this Bikes Direct?
    It is also white, but it might not hurt to Message and ask if you can get the sale price?

    Gravity 29 2 White 17 5" 29er Mountain Bike w Shimano RockShox | eBay

    I think there are 19" on ebay also... doesn't hurt to ask.

  127. #527
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    Re: New Bikesdirect Gravity 29Point1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    re-read the Geometry chart

    I have no idea if this is a typo'O or not, but other than stand over the 15.5 and 17.5 only have a 2 mm Effective top tube difference? Along with a 3mm wheelbase difference?

    I am 5' 8-1/4" with a (book) 30" inseam. I went with a 15.5 for stand over and have changed the stem to a 100mm 6° over the stock 90mm 10° I also put on flat 9° sweep 720mm bars cut down to 670mm bars. Edit: I may switch back to a 90mm 6° stem though so I can flip it down.
    I think I've long arms or something. As my road bike was a 56. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have bought a 54 and put on a longer stem.

    Look at the pictures linked by VTFargo in post #348 of him sitting on a 17.5 http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/ne...ml#post8280410
    VTFargo say in post #346 he is 5' 10" with a 30 inseam.

    Hard to tell you what to do here. A 15.5 is very close in size to a 17.5.
    a 19" is big difference. Re-read through this thread and see if there are other hints.

    And as always it is easier to do a set back seat post along with a longer stem/slammed stem than it is to push a seat forward and shorten a stem.

    Edit: I am super glad I went with the 15.5 on stand over because with the saddle nose hitting my back the top tube is cutting it close. Not sure where they got the Stand over measurements, as they are not that roomy IMO. This will get worse with a saddle swap, as I think the WTB speed V is a short.

    My road bike race geometery was too big, and my hybrid is too big. My new road bike is awesome, and this 15.5 Gravity is awesome.. I never want to be stretched out again! It's painful!
    Thanks for the input. I did read the other post and saw the picture but was like from 2011
    just thought bigger would be better. But it seems tha I can go bigger from smaller. Not the other way around. Still would prefer the 17.5 but u shime me in with the 2mm difference. I mean it's like a 1/8". And yes they have it on eBay but for 100 more.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

  128. #528
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    Sold out 15.5"

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

  129. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by zumogo View Post
    Sold out 15.5"

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
    That's a bummer!

  130. #530
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    The Ritchey WCS Contrail saddle showed up, it's nice! I'll have to get a Longer ride to know, however a quick 2 laps around the block says I am going to love it.

    On my small scale
    I got 252.2g for the Ritchey Contrail, the WTB speed V is 372.8g

    I also had my Cannondale carbon wrapped AL seat post here from my old CAAD road bike. It says I am at the maximum for out of the seat tube. Yet I still have 3" buried.

    247.1g vs the stock seat post at 362.3g

    My old seat post clamp 24.1g rather than the stock QR clamp at 58.7g

    So I shaved off 270.4g or 9.5 oz. 2/3 of a pound all for comfort. Have to love ebay!

    $23.69 for a great condition $90 saddle.

    Total spent
    $399.95 bike
    $53.36 after tax @ performance bike for Ergon grips and Forte Bar
    $23.69 saddle

    parts from home 100mm Cannondale 6° stem, seatpost, and seatpost clamp, Al. water bottle cage.

    $477

    It's an awesome bike IMO,

    10.9 miles @ 14.0 mph, Same 10.9 route on my Synpase AL 105 road bike 2 nights later, 17 mph. Average HR was the same, how ever the differences other than average speed and time was which zone my heart was in. Going up hills killed me on the Gravity. LOL Schwalbe Racing Ralphs would fix that along with Stans, Or SRAM Roam 50's

    I'm happy

  131. #531
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    224.3 miles in 20 days,

    only real complaint is a popping sound when I use the rear brake. No idea where it is coming from...

    Edit: I bet I have pads catching on the disc. I'll see if I can't get it adjusted to not do that.

  132. #532
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    Just got a Gravity 29Point2 and am really enjoying the bike except for the brakes. Came with BB5's with 180mm rotors. Shock on it is a RockShox XC which according to their website, says max rotor size is 160mm. Thinking of upgrading to BB7's. Is it OK to keep the 180mm? Can I switch to 160mm without to much brake loss?

    Thanks for the help.

  133. #533
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    Just got me a 17.5" point 2 they have some more in stock. If anyone is interested.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

  134. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFB View Post
    Just got a Gravity 29Point2 and am really enjoying the bike except for the brakes. Came with BB5's with 180mm rotors. Shock on it is a RockShox XC which according to their website, says max rotor size is 160mm. Thinking of upgrading to BB7's. Is it OK to keep the 180mm? Can I switch to 160mm without to much brake loss?

    Thanks for the help.
    Not positive about the max rotor size for the xc28 fork. I swapped my fork out for a recon silver immediately. However, I did swap over to bb7 brakes and used the adapters/mounts that came on the point2. Kept the 180 rotors, and they work great.

    What don't you like about the bb5's? Not enough braking force? I did notice my rotors had random turkey gobling until I got the alignment right. Took a couple tries though.

  135. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    only real complaint is a popping sound when I use the rear brake. No idea where it is coming from...

    Edit: I bet I have pads catching on the disc. I'll see if I can't get it adjusted to not do that.
    had someting similar on a gravity fsx wherethe spokes were loose. Tightened them up and it stopped. My 29.2 had a couple loose spokes when I first checked. Joys of machine built wheels.

  136. #536
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    My Topeak rocket hybrid only does presta.

    I've a few options here,
    1). get grommets and buy presta tubes.
    Or
    2). buy a pump that can do either valve also one that will pump up 29er volume topeak mountain morph. $30
    3). buy a Tubeless kit and also get tubeless tires.

    What happens to tire sealant in 0-30 F temps though?

    I am thinking a high volume pump is best option. Then going tubeless when I can afford stans, Especially considering I don't know what I want for a winter tire, knobs are going to suck on snowy roads I think.

  137. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFB View Post
    Just got a Gravity 29Point2 and am really enjoying the bike except for the brakes. Came with BB5's with 180mm rotors. Shock on it is a RockShox XC which according to their website, says max rotor size is 160mm. Thinking of upgrading to BB7's. Is it OK to keep the 180mm? Can I switch to 160mm without to much brake loss?.
    I would first put an SLX on the front. No cutting. Just slide it on the bars and bolt on the caliper. 4 years ahead with no bleeding and the best brake you can get. $60.
    BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano SLX M666 Disc Brake w/ Adapter
    Get an $11 Avid HS1 160mm rotor off ebay.

  138. #538
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    Not sure I want to go to hydraulics.

    I'm finding some great deals on Ebay for BB7's with 160mm rotors. Are the calibers the same size no matter what size rotor is used? Meaning can I keep my 180 rotors and get one of these deals and just swap out the caliber?

  139. #539
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    callipers are the same and will work with the 180 rotors on the bike. I have a brand new set of 160 cleansweeps at home just sitting on the shelf. Will eventually put them on a different bike.

    Just make sure you keep track of which post spacer goes on which post. I thought they were the same, they weren't. I put it all together and had to take them back off. Not a big problem, just be aware of it.

  140. #540
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    It took me a while to adjust the BB5, mostly due to me being a newbie at adjusting disc brakes. My pop pop clunk clunk clunk was a brake alignment issue.

    All that being said the rotors that come on this bike needs trued. OR just deal with it. After 200 miles the rub whisk whisk (from the rotors not being true) sound goes away.

    While I may not be able to pull an endo, I can grab a handful of both brakes on pavement and stop right now!

    with 160's I can see how the BB5 might be lacking, with the 180's they work.

    I am also only 180lbs so I have less mass to stop. Then again I ride like a maniac and the BB5's work effectively.

    on the weight thing, With my front light/rear light including batteries, my saddle bag, tools, patch kit, tire levers, garmin edge 500, Co2 pump w one 16g cartridge (1 is worthless on a 29er), water bottle cage. I am sitting at 34 lbs.

    Add my Nathan fire an ice reflective water bottle and I am 35+

    My 12.5 mile trip to town was 17 mph average. Return trip was brutal, and dropped me to 14.4 for entire trip.

    My bike needs a diet... In the meantime a heavier bike will result in a stronger slimmer me.

    My old stem that I had put on happened to be 110, pushing my seat too far forward. I couldn't bring myself to put that WTB stock stem back on. LBS had a Cannondale c3 90mm sitting there so I gave him $25. The 90mm stem allows me to push my seat back, While still being comfortable. My knee cap pain also went away.

    270 miles on this bike, now.

    It is a nice addition to my Giant 05 Cypress SX hybrid, and my Cannondale al. synapse 105

    As for upgrading brakes, wheelset.... maybe I shouldn't and instead set that $ aside for this.... OR what ever BD has in TI at that later date. Shimano DynaSys, 3x10 Speed 29er Titanium Front Suspension Mountain Bikes - MTB - 2013 Motobecane Fly Titanium 29er | Shimano DynaSys hardtail mountain bikes | Save up to 60% off list prices on new bicycles

    maybe $399 wasn't a good deal!! I am hooked on the 29er thing now.

  141. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFB View Post
    Not sure I want to go to hydraulics.

    I'm finding some great deals on Ebay for BB7's with 160mm rotors. Are the calibers the same size no matter what size rotor is used? Meaning can I keep my 180 rotors and get one of these deals and just swap out the caliber?
    BB7s are adequate but why buy twice? A SLX front is maintenance free and has power and modulation no BB7 can come close to. You can check out a component by doing a test ride on a bike model that has it at your lbs. XT or SLX are the same so find a new $4k bike with it as standard. Once you have the control you will get with a SLX on the front you don't need to worry about what is on the rear--it is a secondary brake. Unless you have a hydro Avid rear--you will need to change that for the noise problem.

  142. #542
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    dang you! On the nicely laid out argument.....

    however that is $60 away from ever getting a Ti. 29er.

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    BB7s are adequate but why buy twice? A SLX front is maintenance free and has power and modulation no BB7 can come close to. You can check out a component by doing a test ride on a bike model that has it at your lbs. XT or SLX are the same so find a new $4k bike with it as standard. Once you have the control you will get with a SLX on the front you don't need to worry about what is on the rear--it is a secondary brake. Unless you have a hydro Avid rear--you will need to change that for the noise problem.

  143. #543
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    I am absolutely torn between the Gravity 29point1 and the 2015 Motobecane Elite Adventure. I dont plan on doing anything really aggressive trail-wise and will probably stick to morning rides around my small town and dirt roads, but not ruling out hitting some trails in the woods someday. I'm 6'2, 195ibs and am a little concerned the unknown rims on the EA may not last long compared to the gravity's WTB rims. I also am curious about the higher gearing on the EA and the slightly more forward positioning. Is it safe to assume that the Gravity would be beefier all around except the derailleur, and in that last longer? Is there anything in particular I should be concerned about or reason to stay away from the EA? I've only ever owned department store MTBs and so this will be my 1st decent bike.

    EA:
    Save up to 60% off new Hybrid Bicycles | Adventure Hybrid 29er Bikes Elite Adventure Sport Trail

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    I threw on Clemets X'Plor MSO 700x40's on my point2. I am 5'8" 185 and with the 40's I bomb Ohio root covered dirt trails pretty hard no issues.

    As for tall gears, they are nice on slicks & lighter bikes. My Dawes SST AL. Singlespeed is 48/16. My point2 on the same roads with the MSO gravel grinder tires is a bear pushing the 44 ring.
    Btw the MSO's do just as well as the WTB prowlers if not better, On dirt. On gravel they are way better.

    My opinion, Buy the bike you think looks best. No real huge difference.

    For me, I'll probably dump the point2 and go with a trek crossrip, giant revolt, diamondback haanjo, Raleigh tamland. I don't hit the root covered trail enough to really need the mountain bike.

  145. #545
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    I have both. The gravity had a longer feel to it and allows a larger rear tire. Can always put smaller tires on the gravity, but you can't put big tires on the elite. Gearing on the gravity maxes out about 18mph. Fine for exercise on the road.

  146. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    I have both. The gravity had a longer feel to it and allows a larger rear tire. Can always put smaller tires on the gravity, but you can't put big tires on the elite. Gearing on the gravity maxes out about 18mph. Fine for exercise on the road.
    Well the 29point1 is a 27spd bike, so it's def not the same bike p2weber is speaking of. You can definately do 30mph.

    I personally like the Gravity over the Motobecane for one particular reason.... The cable guides are under the top tube on the Gravity!!!!! Certain Motobecane are along the top tube and just looks ugly. I definitely would not want to look at the cables while I'm riding. Just ewww. Pick one with guides along the bottom. I may just be a cable snob so I gues whatever floats your boat.
    That Motbecane you linked to is more for road with a 48T front outer chainring. Tires are more geared for road as well.
    The 29Point1 has the same derailures I thought? It also has much nicer rims! If your looking to do some trail riding, I would get the Gravity. Tires are more appropriate for mixed conditions as well.
    A co-worker just bought a 29point1 and I helped him put it together. Nice bike. He did have to cut the seatpost because it was unusually long. Nicely spec'd bike for the money.
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  147. #547
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    my gravity was the 2013 29.2. I thought it had a 42T ring up front, but the spec sheet says 44. Either way, you can go 30 on the gravity; but at 60 rpm in the 44/11 gears, speed is just under 20 (Sheldon Brown's gear calculator). I know this because I took it on a 20 mile road ride, and anything over 15mph started getting harder to pedal due to wind resistance. I spent most of the ride in 44/18 to keep the RPM up.

    The same ride with the elite seemed easier, but I did end up swapping the fork for a chromoly steel rigid fork. Dropped about 2 pounds, and it's a rigid, plus the Kenda tires on the elite are light compared to the WTB prowlers. Basically, if you see yourself on road/asphalt/gravel/semi-smooth dirt, the elite is fine. If you plan anything more difficult in the future(rocks/roots/jumps/drops), I'd go up to the gravity just for more tire options. Both bikes handle road about the same at anything under 12-15 mph.

    FYI, the rims on the elite are pretty strong, just a bit narrower than the 29.1 WTB rims. I bought a 1.9" Kenda tire to put on back (cleared the frame by 2mm and required a very true wheel) and rode some legitimate mountain trails. I had more problems with the hubs (mostly the freehub), and almost all of bikedirect's mid/lower end bikes use the same style of formula hubs. In fairness, almost all the big names use the same/similar hub, so maybe I just got a bad one.
    Last edited by watts888; 06-15-2014 at 03:57 AM.

  148. #548
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    Thanks for your all's input, it gave me some more insights/things to ponder. Now I'm kind of thinking the gravity with some semi-slick tires... Top out speed between the Elite & the Gravity would only probably vary by <5MPH(?) and at least if I planned a off road excursion up at the lake I could switch the tires back and not worry about "overdoing it" on the Elite. Thanks again, you guys are awesome!

  149. #549
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    Here is something interesting from Today's Giant Demo.

    I rode my BikeDirect 15.5 GravityPoint2 Pretty much stock minus the saddle (won in contest Ergon) and bars (cheap performance Fortebars Flat 6° sweep $20) and stem (parts bin Cannondale 110mm) and grips ($25 Ergon GP1).

    The following is all 8 rides, all the same Loop.

    1 BD Gravity Point2 $399 (Black Fri sale) (not recorded)
    2 Giant Anthem Advanced 27.5 1 $4,850 (not recorded)
    3 Giant XTC Advanced SL 27.5 1 $5,150 (not recorded)
    average speed
    4 BD Gravity Point2 $399 (Black Fri sale) 9.0mph
    5 Giant XTC Advanced SL 27.5 1 $5,150 8.7 mph
    6 Giant Trance Advanced 27.5 1 $5,575 7.6 mph
    7 Giant Stance 27.5 1 $1,905 7.6 mph
    8 BD Gravity Point2 $399 (Black Fri sale) 7.1 mph

    I feel sorry for anyone trashing name brand bikes at name brand pricing offroad!

    The worse bike to ride in that ^ bunch was the Stance!
    The most fun for me XTC, (hardtail 27.5) Upgrade my 29er point2 to a Gravity 27FIVE G2? I doubt it. My 29er is fun too and obviously just as fast. It just doesn't feel as fast when riding. So the 27.5 XTC wins today for fun, only due to tire size.

    the Trance was interesting and lively and smooth, but seriously sucked going uphill.

    My other gist here, I've beat the crap out of my Gravity Point2 since Thanksgiving 2013!! Maybe on a Pro level there may be differences in the above bikes as for performance . 90% of us will never be Pros though.

  150. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebikesdirect View Post
    PS - we tested a WTB TCS Trailblazer 27.5x2.8 with TCS rims that have Internal width of 25mm
    from the gravity bullseye thread. tell us more.

    How much frame and fork clearance was there? what frame and fork did you use? Does BD offer or plan on offering a 27+ wheelset for sale?

  151. #551
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    I am getting ready to pull the trigger on this:
    Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 29Point5 29er Mountain Bikes

    What do you guys think?

    BD lists 21" as the biggest size on the product page but on the geometry chart it lists 23". This is true for all Gravity 29ers. Is 21" or 23" the biggest? I am a big guy so I like to get the biggest frame I can.
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  152. #552
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    If you didn't like the 20" BEM, not sure you'll like the 21" 29.5. The 21" gravity 29.series is very similar to the 20" bullseye monster. What was it about your BEM that you thought made it too small? How tall are you too? I actually like the slightly smaller fit of my 21" because it allows me to put more body english into moving the bike around under me. Larger bikes (the XL specialized fatboy for example) didn't allow me to really shift it around as easy.

    For reference, here are the geo specs for these. The 20" BEM actually had a longer effective toptube.
    - - - - - - - - gravity 29er - - - gravity monster
    size - - - - - - 21" - - - - - - - - 20"
    eff toptube - - 600 - - - - - - - 623
    standover - - - 32.1" - - - - - - 31.4"
    wheelbase - - 1148 - - - - - - 1131
    chainstay - - - 445 - - - - - - - 460

  153. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    If you didn't like the 20" BEM, not sure you'll like the 21" 29.5. The 21" gravity 29.series is very similar to the 20" bullseye monster. What was it about your BEM that you thought made it too small? How tall are you too? I actually like the slightly smaller fit of my 21" because it allows me to put more body english into moving the bike around under me. Larger bikes (the XL specialized fatboy for example) didn't allow me to really shift it around as easy.

    For reference, here are the geo specs for these. The 20" BEM actually had a longer effective toptube.
    - - - - - - - - gravity 29er - - - gravity monster
    size - - - - - - 21" - - - - - - - - 20"
    eff toptube - - 600 - - - - - - - 623
    standover - - - 32.1" - - - - - - 31.4"
    wheelbase - - 1148 - - - - - - 1131
    chainstay - - - 445 - - - - - - - 460
    Watts! You're killing me man, I finally made a decision on the bike I don't think the geo chart is correct for the Gravity 29er. I think they mislabeled it and the 23" is really the 21".

    General Sizing Guide
    15.5" - 5'7" to 5'9"
    17.5" - 5'10 to 6'0"
    19" - 6'1" to 6'3"
    21" - 6'3 to 6'5"
    This is a general guide, please consult the geometry chart
    Sizing is a personal preference, the final choice is up to you

    If you can find any Gravity on the site that lists the 23" on the product page, not in the geo chart, let me know.
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  154. #554
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    I do what I can. I know the 21" fits me, so unless you're much taller than 6'5", you should be good. The difference between the 21" and the 23" in real bike dimensions (not counting how tall the seat tube and standover is) is only 1 cm difference in length. I doubt you'd notice at all.

    One thing I did do that made a diffeence was get a wider handlebar (760mm). Opened up my chest/shoulders and gave me more control. I ended up hitting a few more trees though. $30 off amazon or any of the other multitude of onine bike shops. I would advise getting one with a lot of rise, maybe 50mm if you can find one.

  155. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    If you didn't like the 20" BEM, not sure you'll like the 21" 29.5. The 21" gravity 29.series is very similar to the 20" bullseye monster. What was it about your BEM that you thought made it too small?
    I have a long torso, I need a large cockpit. The GBEM 20" was too small all around.
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  156. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    I ended up hitting a few more trees though.
    Watts watch out for those trees bro! I am learning not to look at obstacles, the more you look at them, the more tendency you have to steer towards them.

    I put another email into BD about this sizing thing. I don't feel like having another small bike, but I need a mountain bike. Which cockpit feels bigger to you, the 20" Monster or the 21" 29er, you have both right?
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  157. #557
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    Only have the 29.2 (with upgrades). I'm in the N+3 stage (3 more bikes than my wife thinks I need) where I need to sell a bike before I can get a bike. Real toss up between the GEM Pro or a Boris. The bluto would be fun, but not sure it's necessary while I have the 29er.

    The hitting the tree bit was more about actually fitting through trees. A lot of trails around me are heavily wooded and 750mm wide bars just don't fit.

    What size is your Trek, and does it feel right? Any aftermarket fit upgrades. Maybe the 22" BEM is the best route.

  158. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Only have the 29.2 (with upgrades). I'm in the N+3 stage (3 more bikes than my wife thinks I need) where I need to sell a bike before I can get a bike. Real toss up between the GEM Pro or a Boris. The bluto would be fun, but not sure it's necessary while I have the 29er.

    The hitting the tree bit was more about actually fitting through trees. A lot of trails around me are heavily wooded and 750mm wide bars just don't fit.

    What size is your Trek, and does it feel right? Any aftermarket fit upgrades. Maybe the 22" BEM is the best route.
    My Trek is 22.5" which is the second to biggest size. It feels right below the waist but I am still heavy over my hands. It's a road bike though so it is like comparing apples to oranges.

    I take bike sizing now with a grain of salt, especially BD. In terms of the 23" frames, I think they were considering them at one point, which is why they were in the Gravity 29er geo chart, but probably aborted due to market demand. On their bikeshopwarehouse dot com sister site there are some 23" SS Gravity 29ers but I think that is all that exists for 23".

    I am done with the fat bikes for the moment. I am going to get a 29er, and down the line maybe get another fat bike. I live in an 850 sq ft apartment so I just don't have room for bikes. I would love to have one of each.

    I am looking at a used 2013 Specialized Camber Comp 29, size XL, right now. Guy wants $1500 I offered him $1200. He said it was barely ridden. It is between that and the $900 Gravity HT you recommended.
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  159. #559
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    This is the bike that BD copied for the Gravity and Moto HTs:

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Fine by me.
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  160. #560
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    Watts, do you think this:

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    is a better bike than the Gravity you recommended:

    Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 29Point5 29er Mountain Bikes

    Thanks.
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  161. #561
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    The Specialized frame has a slightly better geometry than the Gravity. The Spesh has a longer reach for use with a shorter stem. The 23in Gravity comes with a road bike length 110mm stem and a narrow 610mm bar.

    The specs on the Gravity will be slightly better than the Spesh...mostly the fork (if you care about the 15mm axle on the Gravity), shifters, and possibly the wheels. The Spesh frame lets you run full cable housing from front to back. Much more cleaner look compared to the welded on cable stops. The Spesh frame may as well be lighter too. The medium comes in at just under 4lbs. The Spesh also has different shaped tubes in different parts of the frame. That will help with stiffness and compliance. With the exception of the headtube junction at the downtube...the Gravity's tubes look to be round everywhere else.

  162. #562
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    Thanks RS, very informative answer.

    The Spec unit I am looking at is also run tubeless and has a remote lockout for the Reba. And the head tube and fork are tapered as opposed to the Gravity.

    I think the Spec would have a better resale value too.

    It will probably come down to how much I can negotiate down the price of the Spec. The Gravity is $900.

    Choices, choices, sigh.
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  163. #563
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    The spec is a better bike, but it's hard to say how much better. I will say, the wheels on the gravity are the same from the 29.1 up to the 29.6 (except using a 15mm thru axle hub on the higher levels). It's a strong built wheel, but it's not a super light wheel. For anybody over 200lbs, great wheelset. For somebody under 140 lbs, you can get lighter.

    Spec definitely wins on resale value because of the name. Basically, when you buy a bikesdirect bike, you're buying the parts super cheap and getting a frame for free. You don't get much resale out of a bikesdirect bike unless you part it out.

  164. #564
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    Thanks Watts. I agree with everything you say. At 260lbs I need a solid rig. I haven't heard back from the Spec guy and I am dying to ride so if I don't hear back by Monday or Tuesday I will probably pull the trigger on the Gravity.
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  165. #565
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    Did you end up getting a 29er?

    On a related front, I think BD really messed up on their current run of Gravity 29.x series. The WTB I25 rim is a great upgrade, but almost everything else is a downgrade. On the 29.2 how do you go from a rockshox xc28 TK to a suntour XCT HLO, and still charge more? Even the 29.1 downgraded the drivetrain and still costs more.

  166. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Did you end up getting a 29er?

    On a related front, I think BD really messed up on their current run of Gravity 29.x series. The WTB I25 rim is a great upgrade, but almost everything else is a downgrade. On the 29.2 how do you go from a rockshox xc28 TK to a suntour XCT HLO, and still charge more? Even the 29.1 downgraded the drivetrain and still costs more.
    I got a 2014 Scott Scale 960. Great bike so far, can't complain. It is more of a XC bike and I may grow into needing a more AM bike but we will see.
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  167. #567
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    Just ordered a gravity point2, what's the widest tire you can get away with ?

  168. #568
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    I'm curious is I can run a 29x3.0 on my Gravity 29Point 1.

    -Garry
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  169. #569
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    New model year, or the older runs? On the old runs, you'd be pressed to get much over a 29" x 2.35" in there. The slightest wheel wobble or tire coming out of true would start eating into the frame. There is absolutely no way anything over 2.5" would fit. I've got a 2.2" and it's getting close. Could try the 27.5+ thing, probably be able to get up to a 2.8" in back, but not sure.
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  170. #570
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    I should have specified front tire on mine. I bought mine Sept 2014 and I think it's a "2015" model.

    I've seen a few local guys going to the 29x3.0 on the front of their bikes with barely enough clearance.

    -Garry
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  171. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    New model year, or the older runs? On the old runs, you'd be pressed to get much over a 29" x 2.35" in there. The slightest wheel wobble or tire coming out of true would start eating into the frame. There is absolutely no way anything over 2.5" would fit. I've got a 2.2" and it's getting close. Could try the 27.5+ thing, probably be able to get up to a 2.8" in back, but not sure.
    New model, brand new

    I'd like to use a 2.35 if it would fit

  172. #572
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    It probably would, but I'm not 100% sure. Since they're already using the i25 rims with a 2.2 tire, they might have designed the newer frame with a bit more clearance. You'll just have to see how much room you have to work with.

    And tire width on the fork is 100% dependent on the fork and tire. Either have to do research and ask around, or dive head first and check it out. rockshox says their recon fork is designed for a maximum tire width of 2.3, however, people have put larger tires into it. If you put in a big tire with almost no clearance, goes back to the slightest bit of tire wobble, and you'll start gouging the frame and fork though.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  173. #573
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    2016 frame is different then the 2015 ?

  174. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by weedsnager View Post
    2016 frame is different then the 2015 ?
    Since you asked- the 2015 frames are the same as 2016.
    Some customers have reported good results with 27.5+ tires up to 2.8 on front and rear.
    Not sure about 27.5x3.0 - might be oK on the front but tight. Rear probably not.

  175. #575
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    Assuming the 2016 picture gallery is correct, it looks like the same frame back to at least 2013 (or older) when I got mine. I'm building up some WTB asym wheels and I'll put some 2.3" tires on them. Once assembled, I'll measure and post some pictures.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  176. #576
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    Broke off my rear derailleur on my Gravity 29point1 last night (bent the derailleur to heck). Having a heck of a time deciding what to replace it with. I've noticed a lot of chain slapping and some gear jumping on it. Would like to jump up to at least an SLX with "Shadow+" clutch technology, but they are only available in 10 speed! Trying to stay away from spending a ton of money and get back on the trails soon. Any thoughts/suggestions? Others suggesting to get rid of the large chainring and add a bashguard shortening the chain to assist with greater chain tension.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  177. #577
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    I'd go with the 10-speed conversion (because that's what I did) when it gets to the point of needing to replace 2 or more items. If the chain is worn or you are getting any shark tooth of the cassette or chainrings, good time to upgrade. Otherwise, just go with the cheapest replacement part you need that'll work. I'd also try bending the stock derailure back so it's straight. It's metal after all, has a couple good bends in it. No harm in trying to get it working again.

    And a new derailure hanger.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  178. #578
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    Hmm . . . the chain does need replaced. It got twisted and bent up a bit. The stock cassette should be fine, but I better take a second good look.

    Just wondering how much money to put into this bike vs. waiting/saving for a better bike.

    Thanks for the input.
    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  179. #579
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    Well I think I've reached the end of this bike's worth and usability (Gravity 29.1 - 2015 model). I don't really regret buying this bike as an "entry level starter bike", as I think the expense was minimal compared to what I would have needed to jump up to (considering where I'm looking to jump now based on learning from experience). I sure have beaten this bike pretty hard with the riding I've done and it has handled everything I've thrown at it (as a beginning mountain biker). I've proved to the local club riders that you don't need to shell out $1000+ to get started on a bike that's able to handle our singletrack rides.

    Biggest issue I'm having now is the Suntour XCT fork feeling more like a pogo stick than a suspension fork. During my last big ride I paid particular attention to how the fork acted/performed and that's when I really noticed the constant bouncing instead of "bump absorption". I just don't think this bike is worth spending money on replacing the fork, not even if I found a good used one. I think this really should be near the top of priorities when mountain bike shopping - buy a bike with a good shock to begin with. Derailleurs (what I see a lot of people look at in comparing bikes to buy) can be upgraded rather easily and fairly cheap too (compared to the fork).

    The Shimano SLX Shadow+ derailleur was a huge upgrade over the stock Deore! That was worth it, although as seen above I wrecked the stock Deore and needed to replace it anyhow. (BTW - I ended up keeping it 9speed and doing the Shimano derailleur w/SRAM shifter "mod".)

    I was also looking into doing a 27.5 plus conversion on this bike, but again I just don't think this bike is worth the expense of a new wheelset & tires (even "budget" wheelsets). According to my measurements, the front would handle a 27.5 x 3.0, but on the rear even a 27.5 x 2.8 would be very tight!

    Budget is tight, so I won't be buying another bike anytime soon. When I do it will be another "best deal" / "bang for the buck". At least I didn't drop $1,500 to $2,000 on a bike just to find out I wanted something different!

    No regrets,
    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  180. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Well I think I've reached the end of this bike's worth and usability (Gravity 29.1 - 2015 model). I don't really regret buying this bike as an "entry level starter bike", as I think the expense was minimal compared to what I would have needed to jump up to (considering where I'm looking to jump now based on learning from experience). I sure have beaten this bike pretty hard with the riding I've done and it has handled everything I've thrown at it (as a beginning mountain biker). I've proved to the local club riders that you don't need to shell out $1000+ to get started on a bike that's able to handle our singletrack rides.

    Biggest issue I'm having now is the Suntour XCT fork feeling more like a pogo stick than a suspension fork. During my last big ride I paid particular attention to how the fork acted/performed and that's when I really noticed the constant bouncing instead of "bump absorption". I just don't think this bike is worth spending money on replacing the fork, not even if I found a good used one.

    The Shimano SLX Shadow+ derailleur was a huge upgrade over the stock Deore! That was worth it, although as seen above I wrecked the stock Deore and needed to replace it anyhow. (BTW - I ended up keeping it 9speed and doing the Shimano derailleur w/SRAM shifter "mod".)

    I was also looking into doing a 27.5 plus conversion on this bike, but again I just don't think this bike is worth the expense of a new wheelset & tires (even "budget" wheelsets). According to my measurements, the front would handle a 27.5 x 3.0, but on the rear even a 27.5 x 2.8 would be very tight!

    Budget is tight, so I won't be buying another bike anytime soon. When I do it will be another "best deal" / "bang for the buck". At least I didn't drop $1,500 to $2,000 on a bike just to find out I wanted something different!

    No regrets,
    -Garry
    I have no regrets buying a Gravity 29er. That being said I didn't upgrade it, I sold it, bought a used Giant 29er and then upgraded that. Which I don't regret buying, but I almost regret upgrading including powder coating the frame.

    Too many other options that look to be more fun than a (non race) 29er hardtail. Options coming in the flavor of 27.5 x 2.8-3. like Airborne Griffin, 2017 Raleigh Tokul 3 etc...........

  181. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Well I think I've reached the end of this bike's worth and usability
    But it's fun while it lasted. A junk fork will make a bike handle like junk, and you've ridden long enough to recognize the difference a better fork will make. Plus a years worth or actual riding with an XCT fork basically destroys that fork. Almost guarantee the bushiings are worn out. With the stock frame, you can easily do the $200 suntour raidon upgrade (if you're a normal weight) or the rockshox recon silver (if you're a clyde). Both are a huge upgrade and are the stock forks on $1k+ bikes. Unless you're needing to replace a lot of parts on the bike, I'd just get a new fork and ride it. And if you're still on the stock tires, get a 2.3 in back and 2.4 or 2.5 up front.

    Alternative is to buy a better mountain bike and grab a rigid carbon or steel fork for the gravity. Use the gravity as a super road/cyclocross/gravel/exercise bike. It's a good bike, and I'd rather use it for casual riding around than a dinky little road bike.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  182. #582
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    I did swap tires out. Right now I'm running a Continental Trail King 2.4 up front and a Panaracer 2.35 up front. Oh, and I converted them to tubeless (ghetto tubeless). Both tires I got great deals on. I would consider the fork if I could get one cheap enough, even used.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  183. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post

    Alternative is to buy a better mountain bike and grab a rigid carbon or steel fork for the gravity. Use the gravity as a super road/cyclocross/gravel/exercise bike. It's a good bike, and I'd rather use it for casual riding around than a dinky little road bike.
    that is where I screwed up (money wise) I should have threw on some Big Apples and rode it as a casual riding bike. However, I don't really consider it a screw up because I picked up a 91 Schwinn Crosscut for $75 that I will turn into a XT 1x10 casual flat bar. Most of my casual riding will be pavement. So a 35-40 slick works better for me.

    25 years later there is nothing to complain about on the Crosscut. The Cr-moly frame rocks. Cheapest route would have been to just street queen the Gravity. Oh well.

  184. #584
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    What is clearance for rear tire?
    Veni Vidi Biki

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  185. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    What is clearance for rear tire?
    Clearance which way? I have a bunch of photos of measurements taken. My bike is a 2015 model 29Point1. I'm running a Panaracer Rampage 29x2.35 which actually measures 2.23mm at widest and 1.96mm tall and it's a pretty tight fit. I was looking at going PLUS tires, but it's a no-go.

    Link to my photo gallery.

    Various photos (click to enlarge):



























    For photos with the tape measure, "0" is at center of the axle.

    Hope that helps,
    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  186. #586
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    Thanks. I have a bonty 2.35 on my rear wheel. How do you like the frame? Does it flex a lot? I an considering an unbranded one from bikeisland.. but have never done business with them.
    Veni Vidi Biki

    I came, I saw, I biked.

  187. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    How do you like the frame? Does it flex a lot? I an considering an unbranded one from bikeisland.. but have never done business with them.
    It's been fine for me. I'm only a beginner to intermediate MTB rider, but I've thrashed it around a good bit. I don't have much to compare it to though. The bike was an inexpensive entry into MTB riding, has served it's purpose, and I'm hoping to buy another bike in the future (when I can afford it). I do wish I would have shelled out more for some better components right off the bat though (mainly for a better fork).

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  188. #588
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    bikesdirect has a lot of garbage priced accordingly... but they also have some good deals on high end products... like the Kestrel Carbon Hardatails and their Ti framesets

  189. #589
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    I've had my 2013 in pretty constant use since I bought it. swapped parts like crazy as pieces wore out (a 120mm recon silver fork seemed the perfect length fork to me). I currently have it set up as a rigid trail/gravel bike with a steel fork. Under my 240lbs, still don't get a lot of flex. If you're getting one off bike island, and are interested in an 8-speed setup, I'd recommend looking for one of their bikes that is discounted without a fork or wheels. The discounted cost makes up the price difference to buy a decent fork. the junk XCT fork is the worst thing with these bikes. And when you compare the cost of the complete bike without fork vs. just the frame/fork, it is worth getting all the components included. Unless you have a stock pile of parts, all the little stuff adds up quick. If it doesn't come with wheels, you can easily get good wheels this time of year. Something with a shimano hub, or spend more for a really good wheelset.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

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