Need help with homemade 29" studded tires/wide rims- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Need help with homemade 29" studded tires/wide rims

    I'm desperate to get some studs on my 29er, and the thought of the 45mm Nokias does not appeal to me, so it looks like I'll be doing it the hard way. Here is what I gathered from searching the old forum:
    -Tubeless (ie Stans) is the way to go, so you do not have to worry about "double tubing" or anything, and can use flat head instead of pan head screws
    -Run two front Kenda Klaws, which is a convenient choice since the Kendas are supposed to be one of the more tubeless-friendly 29" tires.
    -Drill the hole (smaller than the screw, but how much smaller?) from the outside of the lug.

    Please correct me if I am wrong on the above, and I specifically need help with these questions:
    -What kind of screws? 1/2" flat head stainless roofing screws?
    -How to best cut down the screws to an acceptable stud length?
    -Should the screws be affixed/sealed to the inside of the tire beyond what the tubeless latex solution will accomplish?
    -As far as wider rims, will they actually change the footprint of your tire? It seems to me that pressure and wheelsize (ie 26" or 29") will be what determines the footprint, and a wider rim would be most useful for running tubed tires at extremely low pressures, so as to minimize the "distortion" of the sidewalls and reduce pinch flats. Am I totally off base here or what? If there is a distinct advantage to running wide rims for a given tubeless tire size, and if so is there much difference in running a slightly wider rim (say 28mm) vs. a significantly wider rim (say 44mm)?

    Any input is greatly appreciated; I'd like to soon cut the 26" cord permanently, but I want to make sure I can still ride on snow/ice before I take that leap!

  2. #2
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    You better stick a 26x2.8" tread you took from a discounted DH tire on a Big Apple 29x2.35" casing you filed naked and screw it together with screws you were going to use on it anyway. That's already 57mm of casing on a 23mm rim, now try that tire on a 44mm rim! Do keep us posted! Even though I don't see much snow here, I'd love to see it!

  3. #3
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    Ummm...

    ...not sure I wanted to take the homemade idea that far, but the end product would almost make it worth it. If I can make this idea work at all, I'll probably just bide my time until WTB or someone releases a ~2.4" tire.

  4. #4
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    WTB is talking 2005 right now. You could be riding your own biggest ridable volume tire in the world a matter of days from now, if you've got the spare time to put it all together.
    Tip : don't bother try and take off all of the carcass from the 26" tread. Most tires at some point rupture while trying. A DH tire may be tougher, though. For pure tire suptleness, just filing (breaking) the carcass wires already does the better pert of the job. An extra carcass does add weight, but if you manage to inflate it tubeless, you win that all back again. No FrankenTire is ever going to be light, but wow a homemade studded 29x2.4" tire sure would work for some extreme circumstances!
    Good luck!

  5. #5
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    Studs

    Here is what I did to a set of NOTOs. Use small wood screws for the studs. the size of the drill bit dosen't matter, you want it as small as possible, but the main reason for drilling the holes from the outside is as a guide so you know where to put the screws when the tire is inside out. Drill the holes from the outside of the tire through the thickest part of the knob. Then turn the tire inside out and put the screws in from the inside of the tire. I sealed the screws in with goop silicone, partially to hold them in place but mainly to help smooth out the inside surface of the tire so as not to puncture the tube. Then coat the inside of the tire w/duct tape, then cut up an old tube and put it over the new tube, then sprinkle the entire assembly (between the tubes and between the outer tube and the tire) with talc. Assemble and inflate the tire. Then take a park tool cable cutter and cut off the points of the screws down by the knobs. Then go ride. Depending on your conditions you may not need studs for all winter riding. I only use them in the early and late season when things are icy and for street riding/commuting. Also I've ridden homeade studs without cutting the screws down to the knobs, they look cool but catch and tear your clothes.
    Good luck
    Adam


    QUOTE=miles e]I'm desperate to get some studs on my 29er, and the thought of the 45mm Nokias does not appeal to me, so it looks like I'll be doing it the hard way. Here is what I gathered from searching the old forum:
    -Tubeless (ie Stans) is the way to go, so you do not have to worry about "double tubing" or anything, and can use flat head instead of pan head screws
    -Run two front Kenda Klaws, which is a convenient choice since the Kendas are supposed to be one of the more tubeless-friendly 29" tires.
    -Drill the hole (smaller than the screw, but how much smaller?) from the outside of the lug.

    Please correct me if I am wrong on the above, and I specifically need help with these questions:
    -What kind of screws? 1/2" flat head stainless roofing screws?
    -How to best cut down the screws to an acceptable stud length?
    -Should the screws be affixed/sealed to the inside of the tire beyond what the tubeless latex solution will accomplish?
    -As far as wider rims, will they actually change the footprint of your tire? It seems to me that pressure and wheelsize (ie 26" or 29") will be what determines the footprint, and a wider rim would be most useful for running tubed tires at extremely low pressures, so as to minimize the "distortion" of the sidewalls and reduce pinch flats. Am I totally off base here or what? If there is a distinct advantage to running wide rims for a given tubeless tire size, and if so is there much difference in running a slightly wider rim (say 28mm) vs. a significantly wider rim (say 44mm)?

    Any input is greatly appreciated; I'd like to soon cut the 26" cord permanently, but I want to make sure I can still ride on snow/ice before I take that leap![/QUOTE]

  6. #6
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    What size screws, and has anyone actually run homemade studded tubeless?

    Is 1/2" about the right size for the wood screws?

    And now that I'm thinking about it, will the screws have enough grip as they are drilled in the rubber to keep them from being poked back into the tire (when riding) without a tube to keep them in place? Maybe a coat of superglue or something similar on the screw would help lock it in place?

  7. #7

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    Just a tiny pilot hole is all you need, a one sixteenth inch bit should be fine. Length of screw depends on depth of lug, but a half inch will likely be plenty. You want almost NO screw sticking out. If they're too long they'll tend to fold over on really hard ice and have less grip than if they barely penetrate the knob.

    Ken

  8. #8
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    1/2" screws are good, KM clearance for Frankentire?

    I have made a few studded 26" tires with 1/2" pan head screws that work very well without any trimming. I have only tried running tubes with a duct tape lining inside the tire. I have used a 3/32" drill bit with good success.

    I'm interested in hearing how the tubeless works, but have some doubts. When the studs engage, they bend the knobs and could cause leaks. I run around 10 psi and would be surprised if a tubeless tire would hold a seal on the bead without some serious glue. Go for it though if you can solve these problems!

    Cloxxki, do you know if the Franentire we discussed will fit in a Karate Monkey? I'm thinking about buying one, but want to be sure there is clearance for the Schwalbe Big apple with a Michelin 2.8 DH tread. The width is right around 62mm. I don't know what the height (wheel radius) will be once it's on a snowcat. I'm also going to run the Rohloff hub so I could slide the hub back a ways to fit a taller tire.

    Once my Snowcats arrive from Alaska I'll get on the Frankentire project and post an update.

    Ride the Snow!
    Brooke

  9. #9
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    Ouch, that's a good one. The most tire size limiting measurement of the KM is the height of the rear bridge between the seat stays. My Big Apples I seem to remeber fit easily, but we'll have to add a full cm to that for knob and stud. On a stiff wheel, I'm sure the width would be fine.
    Perhaps the 10% stretched narrower tread of the Michelin won't even stick out that much from 55-58mm Big Apple on a 23mm rim. A 44mm wide would solve at least the biggest part of the height problem (wide rims make tires lower and more square, right?), not sure how it would affect required tire room in frame.
    Someone ought to make a tire/rim size simulator program (only Clary could do it, and even in Excel) to show what a given flat width tire would end up like on various rims.

  10. #10
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    Frankly Scarlet

    A few thoughts on this whole frankentire thing:

    If you are not getting the ride quality you need from the currently available 29" tires that you got or are getting from the larger volume 26" tires, why switch?

    Won't you need three 26" tires to make two 29" tires as the 29" tires are larger in circumference? One to make up the splice?

    How do you propose to graft one section to the other, to the other? Stitching them together sounds like fun.

    A few thoughts on winter biking in relation to tires versus conditions:

    I live in a winter spot and we have snow here, and ice. The ice is mainly on the traveled sections of road that are packed down by vehicles. The center sections of such are slippery as heck and the only way to go is with studded tires. The narrow Nokians and Innova 700c work fine for this. In fact really well and keeping a Scorcher set up with them is a great winter way to get around town.

    The edges of these traveled sections in and onto the outskirts of town to the trailheads where you can get on a packed snowmobile trail or poach the nordic tracks are less icy and thus you don't need studs. Here I find that a set of Nano's mounted on regular old rims run at winter pressure of 15 psi or so travel just fine. Once you get to the trailhead the conditions have to be pretty good to get going well, too soft and you sink and struggle. Nice and hard and you could even run the narrow studded tires too. But you can tell before you start out pretty much how you will fare and can head where you know the going will be best. Sometimes it even makes sense to just get out the boards and do some kick and glide.

    For people like Mikesee and the other whackos (not that Mike is a whacko, he is a pretty solid person actually) that don't care what conditions they are going to run into as you are prepared for any and all of them I don't see them working the studded thing much. Mostly just wanting the most extra volume they can get, thus the wide rims and wide tires. This leads back to if you aren't getting the amount of volume out of the currently available tires that you are from the smaller diameter larger volume tires, then why switch? if you ride mostly on packed snow conditions with a bit of slickness here and there, why stud? If you ride mostly icy conditions why not use the narrower tires? For the mixture of both I get the most out of the Nanos or their equivalant personally. I've gone down only twice in my life on this type of setup.

    If I head down to the rez and it is all slick Ice, won't I want my speedskates anyway? If there is a skiff of snow on the ice you can time trial for miles flat out on a non-studded tire or the narrow studded one and it is fun. If there is 6" of fresh or more, time for a lift pass or a turn in the backcountry.

    This is not meant to poke fun at folks like AK Ken and his north country brethren that don't have any choice but to go out and ride in godawful temps because that is what they have there for 6+ months of the year to deal with. And if we were really smart we would be biking here with the likes of her in the winter anyway and only worry about ice in our planters punch.....
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  11. #11
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    Ditto Bigwheel - Although we don't get nearly as much snow as you guys...we do have snowpacked trails for 3+ weeks somethimes if it stays cold - especially at 7,500+ up just west of us. I'm simply using the nano's aired down when it is soft, anf those Innova 700x45's when it is a little more crunchy and don't see the need for anything else.

    I guess if you are really bored then you could break out the dremel too, drill holes in your tires, buy a ton of stainless steel screws and deal with the hassle.

    Or, if you really have a lot of time and money on your hands & don't think any of the current offerings are adequate you can buy a pair of the slick Schwalbe slicks mentioned above - then three downhill tires and cut off the casing - then break out the screws, dremel tool, and rubber cement for a long evening. Just remember to keep that garage door cracked when playing with the glue!

    I guess i'm like you - buy a pair of 700x45's for $50for the ice and keep the regular tires on but aired down for the softer stuff.
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  12. #12
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    @Bigwheel :

    2 memebrs from the used tire pile suffice, the 3rd will be able to stay intact, or as a reaserve.

    Bram on here has already done it. Trick is, you keep the 26" tread INTACT although cutting it loose from the beads, and STRETCH it to 29", which it actually will, being rubber and all. Al there's left to do, is glue it together. So simple, a Dutchman could come up with it ;-)

    In the case of a snow tire, you don't even have to depend on glue durability and suptleness, you simply screw the 2 components together with the studs you were going to use all along.

    The stretching does mean that to make a 29x2.4", ou need a 10% wider 26" tire as a tread donor.
    Looking at big tire stats on Shiggy's www.themudzone.com , is appears to me that casing width for 2.4-2.5" tires is all that huge. The 29x2.35" Big Apple though, is a true 57mm already on a 23mm rim. Imagine some knobs on that, and people would call it a 2.5". To make a 29x2.5", You'll need a 26x2.8 for a matching thread. If you don't mind missing side knobs, perhaps because you only ride pretty much straight out through deep snow, you might suffice with less than a 26x2.8" tread (could save a pound), the volume won'y be affected after all.
    I'm too lazy to do it, especially as the "snow" season here means rain, rain, rain. I got in 2 snow rides on 1st and 2nd January, that'll be it for this winter.

    The gluing technique could be very usefull for XC type of tires, to create a Python or Racing Ralph for instance (Bram's made an 29x1.9 Maxxis Larsen TT). The glue choice part needs to be perfectionized some more, and screws won't work all too well I'm affraid, if they can't protrude the tread because of UCI laws.

    When done properly, the glued Frankentire won't be much worse riding than the real thing. If you manage to take off the complete carcass from the donor 26" tread, and carefully shave the 29" tire bold just to the carcass, only added weight is the glue. When the glue is sufficiently suptle when dried up, a 10/10 29" carcass with 10/10 tread should ride at least like a 9/10 puposely made 29" tire. For professionals like team mechanics and tire manufacturers, this might be a nice chance to test a 29" tread using an existing 26" one, without investing in an expensive mold first. If rider feedback is already good on the frankentire (Bram liked his 29" Larsen quite a bit), the manufacturer would have less of an investment risc building that mold.

  13. #13
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    Down to the brass tacks

    To each their own, but I personally find it easier to have one pair of tires that can handle a variety of conditions, rather than switching based on the conditions/trail to be ridden on a particular day. Moreover, and I cannot imagine that Western MA is unique in this regard, I find many trails this time of year to be a combination of sheer ice and loose snow, so if you had to pick a tire for just one of those conditions you would be SOL for the other half of your ride. I'm with you on the Frankentire idea though, I can live with a 2.1 for now.

    And speaking of going to the hardware store and picking up all those screws, I found some 1/2" wood screws in brass (and aluminum as well, but those were pretty expensive). The brass ones cost and weigh (yeah, I'm a geek- bought 15 of each to test) the same as the nickel coated steel ones, so I'm wondering which would be more durable? It seems the steel ones might rust pretty easily once you cut off the tip, since they are only nickel plated, but I know brass has a reputation for being soft and might not hold up too well in this application. Any thoughts?

  14. #14
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    Miles, you should get ahold of a pair of the Innovas and at least try them, I think you would be surprised how versatile they could be in your conditions. I am familiar btw with your area's conditions as I did a good amount of winter biking a bit north of you in So. Vt. years back and that was where I first did a screw job on a set of tires....The really good riding there is when a good crust forms and you can go anywhere! The only problem is when you have to get off and start sliding around on your feet. Found that a set of under the arch creepers worked really well for that though.

    BTW the brass screws may wear faster than steel ones? The way I made mine years ago was using the shortest hex head screws I could find and screwing them into the knobs helter skelter, turned the tire inside out and ground off the bit of tip poking through and installed a tire liner. Worked pretty good. The ACX would be the best bet for this method?

    And to the Frankentire fans out there, go for it. It doesn't have to make sense to everbody does it?
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  15. #15
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    Most important is that it has to make sense still, to the guy that's just finished hours of work grinding, filing, cutting, gluing and screwing.
    One day all of us will encounter conditions where 26" rider have an edge, due to wider tire selection. I'm especially looking at making a narrow mud tire, it's won me races in 26" before and might now lose me races to not have it. One for the back always sufficed for me, my high weight asks for brutal traction in extreme considtion. Perhaps a 2.1" mud tread on a Mutanoraptor 44 (40mm real) carcass. Or even the 1.5" Schwalbe Black Shark Mud tread on a Schwalbe 40c Kevlar carcass.

    In sloppy conditions that ask for such narrow (clay) or wide (snow) tires, IMO knob shape and spacing is key, not carcass suptleness (Frankentire's main disadvantage). It will be much harder to make a Franktire that out-rolls a Maxxis Highroller or WTB Nanoraptor knobby, even it it's with a Bontrager carcass and Fast Fred or Racing Ralph tread. I'm going to try it anyway, through, if only it were to raise some eyebrows from the German tire masters.

  16. #16
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    More info on studs...

    Hi Miles,

    Instead of screws, you could take a look at the Innova replacement studs or see if you can buy replacement Nokian studs from your LBS. Even car studs work well. You can go to http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2fweb.ask.com%2fweb%3fq%3dwhe re%2bcan%2bi%2bbuy%2bwinter%2btire%2bstuds%26o%3d0 %26page%3d1&q=where+can+i+buy+winter+tire+studs&u= http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fr%3ft%3dan%26s%3da%26 uid%3d2188045b5188045b5%26sid%3d3188045b5188045b5% 26qid%3d52FEA03B61A92F408EEC29D7873335BC%26io%3d7% 26sv%3dza5cb0db6%26o%3d0%26ask%3dwhere%2bcan%2bi%2 bbuy%2bwinter%2btire%2bstuds%26uip%3d188045b5%26en %3dte%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3dBIKEMAN's%2bOn-Line%2bStore%253a%2bSTUDDED%2bSNOW%2b%252f%2bICE%2 bTIRES%26ac%3d4%26qs%3d0%26pg%3d1%26ep%3d1%26te_pa r%3d155%26te_id%3d%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.bikeman. com%2fcatalog%2ftiresstudded.htm&s=a&bu=http%3a%2f %2fwww.bikeman.com%2fcatalog%2ftiresstudded.htm&qt e=0&o=0 to take a look at buying the Innova studs from Bikeman. This will get you to the Bikeman site and then you will need to search on 'studs' go get to the catalog page.

    Good Luck,
    Tom

  17. #17
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    I made some sweet 29er studs

    Hi e-miles,
    Sorry for the late reply.
    I'm one of the guys that posted on the old forum my success with Kenda Klaw fronts and Stans tire spooge.
    I used #4, stainless steel, 3/8", flat headed machine screws (bolts).
    (hard to find, check out a good fastener warehouse)
    That avoided any sanding although depending on the terrain one still might want to trim further.
    As far as the size holes to drill I went with the smallest holes I could drill that would still be visible and then using a p-head screw driver I found I could actually "pop" them in about one thread so they would stand up nice and true and await the screwing they got from my drill.
    I also put some thought into the stud pattern. It turns out I hit pay dirt cause you really need them on every one of the two inside lug lines but staggering them on the outside still was plenty for great cornering.
    These tires out-performed my buddies which were made with #6 1/2" flat head SS screws and required extensive sanding and weighd considerably more.
    He didn't go the stans route and had alot of flatting problems even though he lined the tires.
    The stans on mine worked well abd the screws seem to stay in place even though they don't have the mechanical support of a tube/liner pushing back.
    There is one major caveat though, if you're out on the trail and blow a STANed tire off the rim or it otherwise fails you better have a pre-lined tube for emergency because a plain tube will last all of about 5 minutes! So I cut up some old 26 tube sections and lined the out side of a new wtb 29 tube holding the liner in place with duct tape strips.
    And yeah it may be heavy in the back pack but it keeps the rotational weight low and that's what's important.
    I'll post some pics and hopefully they'll come through!
    good luck,
    Feel free to write me at steveATmtanembaDOTorg for more info and bigger pics.
    Ride On
    Steve
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  18. #18
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    No pics I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat29Tire
    Hi e-miles,
    I'll post some pics and hopefully they'll come through!
    Feel free to write me at steveATmtanembaDOTorg for more info and bigger pics.
    Why don't these f-ing images ever post?
    I went back twice to modify the size <180k and no greater then 800x800 and atleast on my machine I just see the little image icon!

    Sorry, write me and I'll e-mail, they're worth a look if your thinking on doing this.

  19. #19
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    Awesome!

    Steve,
    thanks for the info, exactly what I was looking for. Good advice too about carrying the extra pre-lined tube. I dread the thought of getting a flat on the trail in zero degree weather, and while I've never had a flat with Stans on 26" wheels they are a mess to change, and I know 29" tubeless can be more challenging/problematic.

    A couple further questions:
    -How many studs are there in the tire as you have them arranged? You seem pretty comfortable with not having more on the cornering knobs, what about the center knobs? Is there an advantage to not putting studs in all the knobs other than time/weight?
    -From what I've gathered at boltdepot.com, flat head screws include the head in the measurement, but pan head does not. Do you think 1/4" of thread on a pan head bolt would suffice? I'm thinking about using the pan head to maximize the length of the threads embedded in the knob (the flat head screw of course not having any threads on the head portion of the screw that is in the knob), and since the head protruding from the inside of the tire should not matter with tubeless (and would hopefully not be too big of a problem for the ride home after a flat).

    Thanks again,
    Miles

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    A couple further questions:
    -How many studs are there in the tire as you have them arranged?
    Each lug-line in the front klaw has 85 lugs, so the two lines each side of center =2x85 or 170, and every other lug (or 50%) in 2 out side lines = another 85 so the total is 255.
    Now while that might not sound impressive compared to the current 300+ on the nokian 26ers let me assure you these tires ROCK on the ice!
    I really think the small diameter of the #4 and the sharp end of the bolt where the threads end is why. Course the mega protrusion compared to factory studs helps too.
    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    You seem pretty comfortable with not having more on the cornering knobs, what about the center knobs?
    I just thought the pattern I started with would be enough which it is.
    And I wanted to stay away from the very center thinking it might lead to undesired handling issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Is there an advantage to not putting studs in all the knobs other than time/weight?
    Dude, those are big advantages. Wait till you're through building those puppies, it's a pain in the arse!
    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    -From what I've gathered at boltdepot.com, flat head screws include the head in the measurement, but pan head does not. Do you think 1/4" of thread on a pan head bolt would suffice? I'm thinking about using the pan head to maximize the length of the threads embedded in the knob (the flat head screw of course not having any threads on the head portion of the screw that is in the knob), and since the head protruding from the inside of the tire should not matter with tubeless (and would hopefully not be too big of a problem for the ride home after a flat).
    I went with the flat heads because the weigh about 30% less!

    Good luck and ride on,
    Steve

  21. #21

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    Steves tires are good & light

    Steves studded tires hook up well on glare ice and are still fairly light for a studed tire.

    Much better than mine. I think he had 240 some odd screws per tire. I had 360 and used #6 sheet metal screws. Kind of like a small stainless steel sheet rock screw.

    I believe he used #4 machine screws but you'll have to ask him.

    His front wheel weighed in at 4# 13oz with skewer, wheras mine was 5# 3oz with skewer. Same tire, a bit different rim and hub.

    The other %$*&ing problem I have is insulating the tube from the screw heads. Tried everything including Stan's but couldnt get it to blow up. The Klaws are really loose on a Bontrager Race rim. Maybe better with the Delgatos like Steve had.

    The last thing I'd try is a glued in road tire. That should offer enough strength. You will need to glue in a 4" patch because the standard road tire is not long enough. Make sure you glue it as if you just lay it in, it will bulge out the tire. Believe me, it happened to me.

    Next year I'll build a new set just like Steves with the stans.








    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Steve,
    thanks for the info, exactly what I was looking for. Good advice too about carrying the extra pre-lined tube. I dread the thought of getting a flat on the trail in zero degree weather, and while I've never had a flat with Stans on 26" wheels they are a mess to change, and I know 29" tubeless can be more challenging/problematic.

    A couple further questions:
    -How many studs are there in the tire as you have them arranged? You seem pretty comfortable with not having more on the cornering knobs, what about the center knobs? Is there an advantage to not putting studs in all the knobs other than time/weight?
    -From what I've gathered at boltdepot.com, flat head screws include the head in the measurement, but pan head does not. Do you think 1/4" of thread on a pan head bolt would suffice? I'm thinking about using the pan head to maximize the length of the threads embedded in the knob (the flat head screw of course not having any threads on the head portion of the screw that is in the knob), and since the head protruding from the inside of the tire should not matter with tubeless (and would hopefully not be too big of a problem for the ride home after a flat).

    Thanks again,
    Miles

  22. #22
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    Wow, those look awesome.
    Have you ridden 26" tires with Nokkians?
    How do your 29" home jobs compare?
    I'm dreaming of building up a K Monkey with Snowcat rims and studded tires for frozen lake riding in Wisconsin.

  23. #23
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    HM stans studded 29er tires

    Quote Originally Posted by dyg2001
    Wow, those look awesome.
    Have you ridden 26" tires with Nokkians?
    How do your 29" home jobs compare?
    I'm dreaming of building up a K Monkey with Snowcat rims and studded tires for frozen lake riding in Wisconsin.
    These are every bit as good as Nokians.
    I'm ready to mount them up for this year again.

  24. #24
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    I wonder if rivnuts would work?

    Alum rivnuts with something hard threaded into it. Then if you used a rivnut, there would be a shoulder on both the inside of the tire and ouside of the lug. And a threaded portion inside that some kind of thing could go - Like carbide? Just an idea. I don't have a solution for the inside.

    I do like the lug profile of the kenda klaw. They look like nice and substantial blocks.

  25. #25
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    Studed 29 Tyres

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat29Tire
    Hi e-miles,
    Sorry for the late reply.
    I'm one of the guys that posted on the old forum my success with Kenda Klaw fronts and Stans tire spooge.
    I used #4, stainless steel, 3/8", flat headed machine screws (bolts).
    (hard to find, check out a good fastener warehouse)
    That avoided any sanding although depending on the terrain one still might want to trim further.
    As far as the size holes to drill I went with the smallest holes I could drill that would still be visible and then using a p-head screw driver I found I could actually "pop" them in about one thread so they would stand up nice and true and await the screwing they got from my drill.
    I also put some thought into the stud pattern. It turns out I hit pay dirt cause you really need them on every one of the two inside lug lines but staggering them on the outside still was plenty for great cornering.
    These tires out-performed my buddies which were made with #6 1/2" flat head SS screws and required extensive sanding and weighd considerably more.
    He didn't go the stans route and had alot of flatting problems even though he lined the tires.
    The stans on mine worked well abd the screws seem to stay in place even though they don't have the mechanical support of a tube/liner pushing back.
    There is one major caveat though, if you're out on the trail and blow a STANed tire off the rim or it otherwise fails you better have a pre-lined tube for emergency because a plain tube will last all of about 5 minutes! So I cut up some old 26 tube sections and lined the out side of a new wtb 29 tube holding the liner in place with duct tape strips.
    And yeah it may be heavy in the back pack but it keeps the rotational weight low and that's what's important.
    I'll post some pics and hopefully they'll come through!
    good luck,
    Feel free to write me at steveATmtanembaDOTorg for more info and bigger pics.
    Ride On
    Steve
    I ordered the #4, stainless steel, 3/8", flat headed machine screws (bolts). Went to pick them up and got #4, staineless steel, philips pan head (round head), B-point, sheet metal screws instead because they didn't understand what I asked for. I was horney to ride the ice so I took them home and followed your instructions for instalation using the tyre you recommended.

    The front tyre is studed exactly as you discribed - on every one of the two inside lug lines but staggering them on the outside - 252 screws. However I studed the rear tyre, which I'm running in reverse direction, staggering them on both the inner ond outer lug lines - 168 screws. This works well but it's a little "loose" in the rear but I feel safe and in control. Obviously 252 screws in the rear would give one more traction but I wanted to experiment in attempt to lower weight. I feel a really good cat like rider could get away with 168 screws front and rear. I'm a clod.

    I'm using a 700 x 40c tube liner with a standard 29 tube. I had a snake bite running them with 28-29 psi, another at 31-32 psi (remember, I'm a clod) and so far so good not at 35psi. I weigh 185lbs. There was no wear on the liner tube but there was a difinitive imprint of the round heads.

    I have over fifty hours on these screwed tyres over rocks, roots, mud, snow and ice (it's been a wierd winter in Maine and we should be xc skiing) and they look almost new, wearing well both stainless steel screw and rubber. None have torn out or pushed in. They do pick up an incredible amount of leafs.

    The #4, staineless steel, philips pan head (round head), B-point, sheet metal screws can be purchased for $30/1000 plus shipping (an awsome price) at Fastener Warehouse, 603-431-0077. Ask for Russ Johnson. Part number 440375.

  26. #26
    MaineMud
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    My favorite 29er studded tire

    I've had pretty good luck with the Bontrager Jones 29. Big square blocky treads. I've been running them on my 96er (when there's snow, dammit). I use stainless #7 x 3/8 panheads. What I do is this. I have an el cheapo drill press with a magnetized #2 phillips bit. You could do it with a drill, but the press just makes it faster.
    I turn the tire completely inside out and lay it in the drill press table. If you look at the pattern on the inside of the tire you can (after a few embarrassing misses) see where the square blocks are. I put all of the screws I'm giong to use in a shallow tray filled with rubber cement I don't even pre-drill them. I just put the screw on the bit (magnetism rocks!!) and screw it in from the inside. I can do a tire in about 10 minutes this way.
    Next step is to "paint the inside of the tire with a thin layer of rubber cement. I use a Stans NoTubes 29" kit and away I go....

    Running about 20 psi works fine. I've had the tire fart itself flat just once, and that was from a nasty pungee stick I didn't see. Seems like when I used to use tubes, I'd pinch flat about every other ride. The rubber cement /stans combo works great.

    The tube/liner idea works well too, especially if you don't want to invest in NoTubes.

    And Cloxxki, yes, snow riding IS one of the times when a full 29er rocks....

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