Mythos XC/Dyad EXPLOSION- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Mythos XC/Dyad EXPLOSION

    I finally finished my new 29er cruiser (pics to come), but wanted to report my experience with my Velocity Dyads, Stans tubeless kit, and Mythos XC II tires.

    I had received this wheelset and tire combo several weeks ago from my wheelbuilder. There was some initial trouble getting the tire to inflate, as the standard 23mm Stans strip apparently did not provide enough coverage for the rim. After some discussion with Stan, we switched to a special 25mm 29er strip. Fit like a glove. Tire inflated, no problem. However, the tire was not inflated to riding pressure.The tire fit on the rim exceptionally loose during installation, which made me worry about a potential blowout.

    Well, today I finished building my new Ti cruiser, just wiped it all down and gazed at that thing of beauty. I took it out to the garage, and proceeded to pump up the rear tire. Somewhere around 25 to 30 psi, the thing EXPLODED! Let me tell you, unless you are riding over a MINE, I can't imagine something any louder. The sound shocked my whole body. My heart felt like it was beating irregular for the next several seconds, the left side of my head went numb, and my left ear went totally deaf for about 15 seconds. My ear still hurts six hours later. I had no idea that 30 psi could cause that kind of raucous. One of my neighbors came out to see what the hell had just happened! The goop spray was also undesirable.

    I am very disappointed at the whole baggy pants 29er deal. Don't tiremakers try putting the tires on these rims? Could they just take two seconds to try these things out? These Mythos tires nearly fall on the rim! Well, I took off the Stans, put a regular tube in the tire, pumped it up to 30 psi, and stopped right there. Rode it around the street and seemed to be fine. But I intend to take that Stans stuff off the front as well. Now I have hardly any confidence at all that these tires will even stay on the bike. I guess I'll find out on a rocky descent.

    I heard here on this board that some of you have successfully used Mythos/Dyads/Stans. Well, its not for me. For now, my plan is to get on the trails very carefully. However, would like to switch to a TIGHT fitting 29er tire ASAP. I would sure appreciate any other recommendations. I don't want any tires that are questionable. I might go back to Stans, but I am never, EVER going to have that happen again. Looking for more of the tire fit I have had with just about every 26" MTB or 700c road bike tire that I have ever purchased.

  2. #2
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about your misfortune, though it doesn't surprise me.
    The Dyads are among the loosest fitting rims in the business. I only got tubeless to work with them, using thick trinned cork handlebar tape under Stan's strip. It gave the snug fit I needed.
    Also, I don't think it would hurt to very slowly increase pressure. I have never dared to inflate to riding pressures within the first quarter of an hour after sealing. The one time I did, I heard an unpleasant beep in my ears for at least an hour. All careful inflation were either uneventfully unsuccessful, or just successful.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  3. #3
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    I think with a tube you'll be OK, at least I am

    I've got a dyad rim with a front mythos II on the back of my SS bike and it's been fine for about 500 miles but this is with a tube. I agree the loose bead is freaky! I put a Big Apple on a mythos and it took a little "readjusting" at about 10-15psi to get the bead on right so it's not just a mythos thing. Maybe it's a dyad thing? Anyway, no problems with tube. I've used stans back in the day (26" wheels) but not dared with these. Funny how some people have reported no problems.

    If you haven't seen this, check it out

    http://www.yestubes.com/

  4. #4
    Just Ride!
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    Is the tire big, the rim small, or the combination of both?

  5. #5
    featherweight clydesdale
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    Thanks for the report. I'll continue to use my Dyad wheelset with tubes.

  6. #6
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    Several issues...

    Dyads are known for being loose (Mikesee has indicated this several times.)
    Secondly, the tire is not designed for tubeless (I would hesitate to use that tire again, unless you can confirm that you did NOT break the bead.) If you did, it's gonna blow all over again.
    Third, stans rim is the only truly confidence inspiring rim for tubeless setups. Yes, other rims will work, but they were NOT designed for tubeless use. Finally, we don't have a single tire that is "tubeless compatible," per the manufacturer's recommendation. Again, many tires will work, but if you use STANS on ANY 29er SETUP you are taking some risk. Don't blame anyone but the user if you are not using the products as they were intended.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    If you haven't seen this, check it out

    http://www.yestubes.com/
    LMFAO - I had not seen this one. That is too damn funny. - the yestubes site, not the tire explosion.
    Last edited by ssmike; 01-17-2005 at 09:30 AM.

  8. #8
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
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    Let everyone learn by your findings.
    Last summer my buddy went to the ER for skin grafts because he used stans on 29" wheelset. He asked me what I thought about stans before he installed it.


    "When it fails, it's catastrophic".
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    I've got a dyad rim with a front mythos II on the back of my SS bike and it's been fine for about 500 miles but this is with a tube. I agree the loose bead is freaky! I put a Big Apple on a mythos and it took a little "readjusting" at about 10-15psi to get the bead on right so it's not just a mythos thing. Maybe it's a dyad thing? Anyway, no problems with tube. I've used stans back in the day (26" wheels) but not dared with these. Funny how some people have reported no problems.

    If you haven't seen this, check it out

    http://www.yestubes.com/

  10. #10
    Witty McWitterson
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    I"m with nato and banks on this. Unless your terrain absolutely calls for it(desert, thorns, sharp rocsk), STAY AWAY from stans. Its most certainly NOT the products fault, be it tire, rim or Stans itself. There are just too many inconsistencies for this type of application to be successful. I'm getting to the point of blurting out "its your own damned fault" every time I see a post about this subject. Ineveitably this set up will fail on you and you will b!tch about blowing a bead and being out a new tire. Use a tube for gods sake. Its a system that's worked for decades, and the hassel that one goes through to set up a tubless system, IMO, far outwieghs the weight benefits one 'gains' from this system. Untill a true tubless arrives (ala UST) just please do us all a favor and go normal.

    YesTubes for ever!
    Just a regular guy.

  11. #11
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    Yes, dumping the Stans

    However, this recurring "loose fitting" theme pops up here again and again, even with plain 'ol tubes. And it's not just Dyads and not just Mythos tires.

    The BOOM was enough negative reinforcement that Stans is getting deinstalled. But mounting those tires with tubes was no easy chore. After installing the left side of the tire bead on the rim, the act of pushing in the right side bead pushed the left bead off the rim again. To successfully install the tire over the partially inflated tube, I had to push in both sides of tire bead simultaneously. Even then, it was eye opening loose. Seemed to me that the tire guys are not talking to the rim guys. I rarely had this problem with any 26" tire/rim combo in the last ten years.

    Now that I switched back to tubes, I guess I don't care how loose the tires are, as long as they stay on during the ride. I read here of one of the guys going to the hospital after his Notos came off during a race. How common is tire derailment on 29ers?

  12. #12
    Who turned out the lights
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    In defense of Rob going to the hospital after RIM due to blowing a tire off...he was going full bore (about 20mph) into a turn and hit a rock that bounced him pretty hard. He said he'd have gone down regardless of losing the tire. Not defending the tubeless setup, just clarifying.

    Probably the best part of it was this: I came up on him shortly after, asked if he had everything under control, and he said yes (not quite realizing how bad he'd hurt his shoulder). This was +/- 10 minutes into the lap. +/-10 miles later (with about 2 miles left in the lap), I started feeling pretty good, b/c he hadn't caught up to me, and I usually don't finish a lap faster than him. 30 seconds later, I hear someone taunting me from behind. Lo and behold, it's Rob. Riding with a separated shoulder, he caught me. We rode for about a mile together, when he stopped to talk to a mountain bike patroller friend of ours who suggested he quit at the end of the lap. I can't even beat a one-armed man. Man, I gotta ride more.

  13. #13
    Only dead people are old
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kansasflatlander
    However, this recurring "loose fitting" theme pops up here again and again, even with plain 'ol tubes. And it's not just Dyads and not just Mythos tires.

    The BOOM was enough negative reinforcement that Stans is getting deinstalled. But mounting those tires with tubes was no easy chore. After installing the left side of the tire bead on the rim, the act of pushing in the right side bead pushed the left bead off the rim again. To successfully install the tire over the partially inflated tube, I had to push in both sides of tire bead simultaneously. Even then, it was eye opening loose. Seemed to me that the tire guys are not talking to the rim guys. I rarely had this problem with any 26" tire/rim combo in the last ten years.

    Now that I switched back to tubes, I guess I don't care how loose the tires are, as long as they stay on during the ride. I read here of one of the guys going to the hospital after his Notos came off during a race. How common is tire derailment on 29ers?
    I have several thousand miles on 29" with Stans with IRC tires and have never had a problem, but I own tires that I just wouldn't use with Stans due to their loose fit. I also have several thousand miles on 26" IRC tires and Stans and I found the same to be true for the 26" scene - some tires just don't work. I started using Stans because I was more than irritated with goathead thorns giving me multiple flats on any ride. If I lived in an area where there was not such a high puncture threat then I would use tubes with no hesitation.

  14. #14
    Schipperkes are cool.
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    Right arm, M.
    These freaking tires are designed to be used with a Tube.
    A 29" wheel has more volume anyways.
    So, if you are tubeless with 26" wheels probably running about 32-35 psi.... I am
    On my 29" wheeled wonders I run tube'd @ the SAME PRESSURE!!!!!

    Over all it's Your fault for using equipment incorrectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  15. #15

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    OT: remonds me of a great story....

    about 5 years ago I worked in a local shop. The owner of a local Chevy dealership, who also happened to be good friends with the shop owner, came into purchase a couple bikes for his 2 daughters.

    They picked out the bikes, and asked that we add slime to the tubes when we preped them. We did so, and then loaded them into the back off his brand new suburban.

    About 20 minutes later, he came in, looking rather flustered, with some strange green stains along his left sleeve, and the back head/neck. Apparently, I didn't seat the tire properly when I reinflated it, and it came off in the back off the car, exploding, and coating the interior with slime. My boss had us go out and clean all of the slime out of the guys interior, it took almost an hour. His wife, who had obviously been crying, said she thought someone was shooting at there car. I thought for sure I was going to be fired, but I can laugh about it now.

  16. #16
    Witty McWitterson
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    Ha! I've been there with you on the Slime. When I worked in Denver at a shop, the slime 'conversion' was quite popular. The shop celing had this greenish hue from all the blown Slime tubes from ill fitting cheap rims and tires.
    Just a regular guy.

  17. #17
    Occasionally engaged…
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    Less whine, more cheese...

    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    Right arm, M.
    These freaking tires are designed to be used with a Tube.
    A 29" wheel has more volume anyways.
    So, if you are tubeless with 26" wheels probably running about 32-35 psi.... I am
    On my 29" wheeled wonders I run tube'd @ the SAME PRESSURE!!!!!

    Over all it's Your fault for using equipment incorrectly.
    While I agree one shouldn't whine when Stan's tubeless fails, it is appropriate to report such problems to the community, 'cause despite your protests to the contrary this methodology is here to stay because it works and offers real benefits. Some like it for running low pressure, some for low weight, and some for flat protection. If none of those reasons speak to you, by all means run tubes.

    I do Stan's for flat protection. When last dismantling my Stan's set-up to move around rim strips, I spent the better part of an hour pulling dozens of cactus spines and sagebrush shards out of my tires -- any of which would have flatted a latex or slimed tube. The fact that I can go an entire summer not fixing a flat gives Stan's real value to me. I suspect there's more market pressure on tire companies to come up with a Stan's compatible tire than there is to build 29er tires. My hope is that tire companies feel compelled to do both. Everyone on this forum is busy telling tire companies how they want fat/wide 29er tires, well I'm here to tell them I want Stan's compatible tires first and foremost.

  18. #18
    Just Ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT
    While I agree one shouldn't whine when Stan's tubeless fails, it is appropriate to report such problems to the community, 'cause despite your protests to the contrary this methodology is here to stay because it works and offers real benefits.
    Here is a copy from our local board this past week;

    stan·tag·o·nostic - Some one who opposes the use of NoTubes without
    really knowing for themself, in a contentious fashion.

    stan·tag·o·nist - Some one who proports trouble with the use of NoTubes
    in an effort to illicit a response from stan·tag·o·nostics. (See also
    cyclepink)

    Reference
    Stan's (as in NoTubes)

    an·tag·o·nist - One who opposes and contends against another; an
    adversary

    ag·nos·tic - One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

    All credits to Neale............ It brought quite a bit of laughter to my office.

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