Light XC 29er and pedal strikes, Carbon Specialized Epic 29er?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Light XC 29er and pedal strikes, Carbon Specialized Epic 29er?

    I'm looking for a light full suspension 29er. One thing I hate though is a frame design where I get a lot of pedal strikes. Asked this about the Superfly 100 and it seems they get a lot so I ruled out a Superfly. What about you Carbon Epic 29er owners? Lots of pedal strikes? Anyone have any other bike recommendations?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    DG5
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    I think pedal strikes are more the fault of the rider,not the bike.FWIW.
    I love my bike.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG5
    I think pedal strikes are more the fault of the rider,not the bike.FWIW.
    This. I "trained" by purposely getting pedal strikes where ever there was risk and re-rode everything with that in mind and have dialed in my "internal pedal strike warning indicator" and have cut down on pedal strikes tremendously, but when I do pedal strike, I don't panic and instead plow-i-mean-flow through like it wasn't any big deal. Basically, I learned the limits of the bike and get to reap the benefits of a bike with a low CG.

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    Simply put, you need to look at bottom bracket height. Compare geometry on candidate bikes with those you have had or ridden in the past. Years after a race season on a Klein Adept with very aggressive handling and, yes, a very low bottom bracket, I still find myself soft-pedaling over rocks and such as I can recall over a handful of butt busting over the bar crashes from unanticipated pedal strikes.
    Do remember that is a variable sweet spot for bottom bracket height that is unique to the rider and terrain. For my type of east coast twisties, a low bottom bracket means a better handling bike. But, too low and... well, yes.
    Anyway, I've been riding big-S for years since my early Klein days and geometry has always been categorically neutral without any faults (several Epics, Stumpjumpers, carbon 29er hardtail, etc.). In short, bottom bracket is not too low.
    Good luck!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rixsurfer
    I'm looking for a light full suspension 29er. One thing I hate though is a frame design where I get a lot of pedal strikes. Asked this about the Superfly 100 and it seems they get a lot so I ruled out a Superfly. What about you Carbon Epic 29er owners? Lots of pedal strikes? Anyone have any other bike recommendations?

    Thanks!
    As a general (very general) rule the two things you are looking at mutually exclusive. Most light FS bikes are race bikes, and race bikes tend to have a lower BB to improve handling.

    That said, the Carbon Epic has a 331mm bottom bracket height (they don't publish BB Drop, which I find more helpful) vs., I think, 313mm for the Superfly. That is a very big difference, and will translate into fewer pedal strikes.

    My Canzo has a 338mm BB Height (32mm BB Drop) and I would want a lower BB on a race bike. Just remember to keep in mind that is is just as easy to have a BB that is too high as one that is too low.
    Voodoo Canzo 29er (sporting a Lefty) + Raleigh XXIX SS + Traitor Crusade SSCX + Lapierre Xelius XDJ

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbaylor
    That said, the Carbon Epic has a 331mm bottom bracket height (they don't publish BB Drop, which I find more helpful) vs., I think, 313mm for the Superfly. That is a very big difference, and will translate into fewer pedal strikes.
    Where did you get 313mm?

    Using 29" as the wheel diameter:
    axle height = 29"/2 = 14.5" = 368.3mm
    bb drop (link) = 32.5mm
    bb height = axle height - bb drop = 368.3 - 32.5 = 335.8mm (higher than the Epic)

    Sometimes it's better to not say anything or take two minutes to check than throw out a random number.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    Where did you get 313mm?

    Using 29" as the wheel diameter:
    axle height = 29"/2 = 14.5" = 368.3mm
    bb drop (link) = 32.5mm
    bb height = axle height - bb drop = 368.3 - 32.5 = 335.8mm (higher than the Epic)

    Sometimes it's better to not say anything or take two minutes to check than throw out a random number.
    I didn't throw out a random number so much as the wrong one, but thanks for the catch. I checked the geometry charts, but didn't have time to go back and check again after my browser freaked out. I should have been more careful. I really have no idea how I "remembered" 313.

    The 2010 Superfly 100 according to Gary Fisher's site is 325mm (45mm BB Drop), so if the OP is looking at the older model, in this case it would be slightly lower than the Epic.

    Again my bad.
    Voodoo Canzo 29er (sporting a Lefty) + Raleigh XXIX SS + Traitor Crusade SSCX + Lapierre Xelius XDJ

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbaylor
    I didn't throw out a random number so much as the wrong one, but thanks for the catch. I checked the geometry charts, but didn't have time to go back and check again after my browser freaked out. I should have been more careful. I really have no idea how I "remembered" 313.

    The 2010 Superfly 100 according to Gary Fisher's site is 325mm (45mm BB Drop), so if the OP is looking at the older model, in this case it would be slightly lower than the Epic.

    Again my bad.
    I wonder if they moved it up to help with the pedal strikes that the OP reported that others are reporting.
    No sweat, and you did say, "I think." I wasn't trying to admonish you so much as set the record straight.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  9. #9
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    To the OP. I spent a week on an epic and noticed a bunch more pedal strikes than with my 29 HT.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rixsurfer
    I'm looking for a light full suspension 29er. One thing I hate though is a frame design where I get a lot of pedal strikes. Asked this about the Superfly 100 and it seems they get a lot so I ruled out a Superfly. What about you Carbon Epic 29er owners? Lots of pedal strikes? Anyone have any other bike recommendations?

    Thanks!
    or get a rear hub with high points of engagement (like Hadley, King, I9) and "train" on how to adjust on the fly, as one of the other posters mentioned.
    Craig, Durango CO
    "Lighten up PAL" ... King Cage

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    I wonder if they moved it up to help with the pedal strikes that the OP reported that others are reporting.
    No sweat, and you did say, "I think." I wasn't trying to admonish you so much as set the record straight.
    I figured as much. You are a scientific minded person, things like that probably drive you crazy!
    Voodoo Canzo 29er (sporting a Lefty) + Raleigh XXIX SS + Traitor Crusade SSCX + Lapierre Xelius XDJ

  12. #12
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    Did Trek just correct their numbers on the SF100 '11? They don't match MF's numbers, 325 bb height without bb drop listed.

    Looks like this isn't some secret, because I have both i9 and king wheels which are great for clearing those slow jagged section which you can get hung up on but also have to watch out about pedal strikes.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 03-02-2011 at 06:04 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    Did Trek just correct their numbers on the SF100 '11? They don't match MF's numbers, 325 bb height without bb drop listed.
    How's about that. My mistake in interpreting the numbers. I've done a lot of hurried looking at bb numbers in the past couple of days and the 32.5 fit with millimeters and drop... didn't catch the units up top, which would have told me it's height.
    thanks for the catch.
    xjbaylor, feel free to rub my nose in it.
    *edit - actually, 32.5mm doesn't make sense for BB drop on a 29er... but i've been looking at bb drop for 26" vs 29er and 32.5mm is right there for a 26".
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    This. I "trained" by purposely getting pedal strikes where ever there was risk and re-rode everything with that in mind and have dialed in my "internal pedal strike warning indicator" and have cut down on pedal strikes tremendously, but when I do pedal strike, I don't panic and instead plow-i-mean-flow through like it wasn't any big deal. Basically, I learned the limits of the bike and get to reap the benefits of a bike with a low CG.
    Bah. I prefer a bike I don't have to constantly monitor for where my pedals are while riding. Especially when I'm tired. A low BB is a deal breaker for me.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightySchmoePong
    Bah. I prefer a bike I don't have to constantly monitor for where my pedals are while riding. Especially when I'm tired. A low BB is a deal breaker for me.
    michael mooney's set-up would be ideal for you.
    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yORN4uCkc_M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbrossman
    or get a rear hub with high points of engagement (like Hadley, King, I9) and "train" on how to adjust on the fly, as one of the other posters mentioned.
    This is very true. I find the lower engagement of my lightweight hub on my low BB race bike is a bad combo.
    To the OP, of all the lightweight FS race bikes I looked at, the Epic does have the highest BB height which I agreee is very important. If you are racing, momentum is your best friend and the easiest way to reduce your momentum is to stop pedalling so you don't crush your pedals. I think it is just as easy to train yourself to carve corners on a bike with 8mm higher BB that it is to stop pedalling or manuever the bike when you encounter rocks...but the former will get you through faster. This is my experience at least.

  17. #17
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    I'm somewhat suprised nobody has mentioned sag or soft air pressure could affect it too. You might have the highest BB available but if it drops 25mm when you sit on the bike... Also if you run a soft rear shock and drop off a root or hit the first rock, the BB drops even lower... Then how about crank length...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by qa_bugfinder
    I'm somewhat suprised nobody has mentioned sag or soft air pressure could affect it too. You might have the highest BB available but if it drops 25mm when you sit on the bike... Also if you run a soft rear shock and drop off a root or hit the first rock, the BB drops even lower... Then how about crank length...
    I believe that most FS bikes report BB height at design suspension sag. It would be ridiculous if they didn't. the point about travel is a good one, though. On most "XC" 29ers you're talking ~3" (76mm) of additional clearance loss. If you're fully compressing both ends into a rock garden, though, something tells me you're probably not pedaling.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by qa_bugfinder
    I'm somewhat suprised nobody has mentioned sag or soft air pressure could affect it too. You might have the highest BB available but if it drops 25mm when you sit on the bike... Also if you run a soft rear shock and drop off a root or hit the first rock, the BB drops even lower... Then how about crank length...
    I had this very issue. It caused a high speed over the bars moment and a trip to the ER for stitches. Check FS bikes for the appropriate amount of SAG.

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