My long wait is over. It's finally here <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5629688429/" title="Jones Frame and Truss Fork by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5629688429_cd4cb42ba3_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones Frame and Truss Fork"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5630273756/" title="Jones H Bar by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5022/5630273756_a1862c87e2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones H Bar"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5629689085/" title="Jones Steel Spaceframe by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5065/5629689085_b697287351_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones Steel Spaceframe"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5630273298/" title="P35 Laced to Paul Hubs by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/5630273298_3a8cb1b088_b.jpg" width="680" height="1024" alt="P35 Laced to Paul Hubs"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5629689663/" title="Jones Steel Spaceframe by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/5629689663_f7c87e4632_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones Steel Spaceframe"></a>
Thank you rjedoaks I am very happy how everything turned out. It took several pictures from Jeff before I made the decision. It is actually tricky depending on how the light struck the picture. But all in all, very satisfied!
@THreeD : Choice of Cobalt Blue or Black only for now.
@Wally : It is a Cane creek 100 special for Jones spaceframe. New style no more 2 top cup style headset. Very sleek and nice.
@Top : as soon as I get some mileage I will certainly give my report. I have an access on a Ti version as well so hopefully I can come up with good review. One thing very obvious now is the weight.
I bought the frame fork headset front wheel setup and I built the rest. I am very satisfied with the service I got from Jeff and Sheila. Truly wonderful people to work with.
Interesting these only come in one size though. And seems a rather small one at that. Will these frames fit a 6'2" rider? I'm used to a much longer ETT but would love to try a SF. Especially at $1500.
Beautiful bike there. You going to angle those bars down? It looks like mostly everyone angles them down a little. It looks like you'd get some wrist pain with them like that. Just curious.
Its a 50mm Speedway Rim laced to The Jones 135-F front hub and a Larry Tire....Jeff built the wheel.... He also carries the rims 50mm and 70mm and Hubs.
Beautiful bike there. You going to angle those bars down? It looks like mostly everyone angles them down a little. It looks like you'd get some wrist pain with them like that. Just curious.
I took the picture before I had a chance to make all of the adjustments. The bars are angled down now. The Jones loop bars are very comfortable.
I have put around 100 miles on the fat front, after using the standard 29er front for 200mi. So after 5 weeks of riding the SF, I thought I would post a quick summary.
Great handling bike, quick but stable. It;s also a rigid bike, so it has to be ridden accordingly. I'm 6' 240lbs , the fit is very good, relaxed and upright. The J Bar seems to fit my hands naturally after the right tilt is found. I use Ergons w/ a flat bar normally. No wrist issues w/ the J bar. The 29er front is nice but the Fat front is very nice. The extra 2.5 lbs up front is really a non issue as far as I am concerned. This big tire with 12lbs pressure smoothes out trail debris and rolls over most anything, instead of being deflected. Much easier to hold your line on a rocky rutty uphill/downhill. I pump the tires up for the 6 mi road ride to the trail.
Nothing you haven't heard already, just another happy customer. I'll post again once I get more time on the bike. Rich
rjedoaks: Nice! I felt the same the first time I got on mine on a downhill. It handles better and quite stable on roots and rocks. With all this rain. Sadly I have only put about 90 miles on mine. I will be trying the fat front this week and see the comparison. I will be giving my input once I ride both.
Hobbyfreak, when jeff stated he runs 9 lbs in the tire, and that 12 feels like basket ball, I still said to myself, there is no way I'm running 12 lbs at my weight. He shipped the wheel w/ 10.5, I aired it up to 20. Bad idea, bounces off everything, and stops you cold if you loose momentum. Let the pressure down, the tire starts to roll over everything. 11.5 felt good today. I don't really see any drawbacks with the big front, I mean unless you were climbing all day. I think you are going to enjoy it.
As Ashley from the UK said to me, it's like having two bikes. Rich
FuelBelt Aero FuelBox/ from Amazon. 15 bucks. I was tired of having to reach in my pack for my camera. This makes it super easy and quick. The frame pack comes w/ a plastic liner to hold it's shape, which can be removed. With the liner, there is only enough room for my digicam.If you remove the liner, a cell phone or a couple energy bars can be added.
Carousel makes a very nice one that is a touch larger and bombproof, but it is 80.00 shipped.I originally ordered the Carousel, thinking this one would be cheap and wouldn't fit the TT well. Then I canceled the Carousel order, because this works perfect. Rich
Staz: Are you running 6 speed? What kind of cranks are you using?
Nice Ride!
I have a 9 speed XT cassette 11-34 , 9 speed chain and Sram X7 10speed cranks.
I took the large ring off and to the grinder..... making it into a bash and use the 28T inside ring.
Been looking into the SRAM cranks because the spider can be removed to run a HomeBrewed spriderless chainring ( which I'm waiting on). http://www.homebrewedcomponents.com/...ess-chainrings
I have a 9 speed XT cassette 11-34 , 9 speed chain and Sram X7 10speed cranks.
I took the large ring off and to the grinder..... making it into a bash and use the 28T inside ring.
Been looking into the SRAM cranks because the spider can be removed to run a HomeBrewed spriderless chainring ( which I'm waiting on). http://www.homebrewedcomponents.com/...ess-chainrings
Nice I am thinking of running mine geared for the winter. still looking around for the best option.
rjedoaks: I rode the fat larry (borrowed) on 9lbs and it rode great for me. I was rolling over everything nicely. As I start to lower it down to 7lbs it becomes squirmy on turns. 8lbs would do but 9lbs seems to be the magic number for me. I will post as soon as I get mine.
Wow thats low.
I put the 29er front back on yesterday after riding the Fat for over 100 mi. Felt more precise, but more care needed to be taken, especially through rocky turns and downhill sections. It is difficult to wash out the Fat front wheel. Again, super plush. For myself, I think the Fat front is going to be used the majority of the time.
Totally agree! Jeff is building mine as we speak. I should have listen to him from the start. But now I have something to choose from depending on the trail.thumbsup: :
Anyone think that a 650B x 3" would be the ideal front wheel, if the tyre was available? Thinking that the OD would be similar but overall it'd be lighter.
I have a Ti-wan Jones on order and haven't built the wheels yet. For the wooded singletrack here (hardpack and minor roots) the fat front looks a bit ott, but the reports from everyone who rides fat anywhere a bit rockier have got me thinking.
...with a Fat wheel, that is. It rolls surpisingly fast, we'll see how it works on the trail. 47mm Trialtech 630g rim, Jones front hub, DT Comp spokes. Steering seems to be a tad quicker.
Anyone think that a 650B x 3" would be the ideal front wheel, if the tyre was available? Thinking that the OD would be similar but overall it'd be lighter.
I have a Ti-wan Jones on order and haven't built the wheels yet. For the wooded singletrack here (hardpack and minor roots) the fat front looks a bit ott, but the reports from everyone who rides fat anywhere a bit rockier have got me thinking.
I'll say it will probably never happen. It might be lighter, but it would probably sacrifice the extra air suspension too much. I'd be willing to try it, but I doubt you will get both a good rim and the big 650B tire made to be able to try it. Luckily, I really like the Larry.
I'll say it will probably never happen. It might be lighter, but it would probably sacrifice the extra air suspension too much. I'd be willing to try it, but I doubt you will get both a good rim and the big 650B tire made to be able to try it. Luckily, I really like the Larry.
Aside from the fact that fat 650B rims and tires don't seem to be readily available, I'd expect that if you want something "less fat", then you'd be better of keeping the geometry intact and going with a big 29" tire like the 2.55 Weirwolf or 2.4 Ardent.
Agreed, highly unlikely. I have Ardent 2.4s for the front already and it'll probably end up on a Flow for the new bike. But I'm watching the 650B news sites in case the boom in fat bikes brings a 650B version, ever hopeful..
650b is underused in my opinion. agreed a 3" 650b would be wild, as are 29 front/650b rear combos to utilise the easier-to-be-shorter stays. i'm surprised we aren't seeing more mixed wheel bikes....ah well!
650b is underused in my opinion. agreed a 3" 650b would be wild, as are 29 front/650b rear combos to utilise the easier-to-be-shorter stays. i'm surprised we aren't seeing more mixed wheel bikes....ah well!
I like the look of the YiPsan fat front/650b rear. Made me wish for flat black on my steel Jones...
...with a Fat wheel, that is. It rolls surpisingly fast, we'll see how it works on the trail. 47mm Trialtech 630g rim, Jones front hub, DT Comp spokes. Steering seems to be a tad quicker.
Nice setup! What made you decide on the 47mm trailtech rim rather than the single wall 50mm Jeff sells?
Hey all,
very excited looking at these bikes. I'm currently in the market and have spoken to Jeff about building a steel spaceframe.
Those without the fat front and geared drive train...what weights are you seeing on the complete bikes?
Are we up to the 30lbs range?
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
-D
Hey all,
very excited looking at these bikes. I'm currently in the market and have spoken to Jeff about building a steel spaceframe.
Those without the fat front and geared drive train...what weights are you seeing on the complete bikes?
Are we up to the 30lbs range?
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
-D
My SS is probably 27lbs, so I bet you are in the ball park at 30 lbs.
Just buy it, it's a great bike.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
I didn't go too bling on my build.
Mostly with the stock components on Jeff's build sheet.
I'll post once I get the quote from Jeff.
This is a totally new experience for me having to trust Jeff with the build.
I was totally AR with my current bike wanting to fuss over every component.
My current SS bike is 21~22lbs so the 8lbs+ is quite a shocker.
I'm not a racer but I do like to climb so we'll see.
I'm holding off on the fat front at the moment. (the skeptic in me)
I'm thinking I have to change my mentality and buy into Jeff's system, based on what I'm reading here.
The only trick thing I'm doing is a 2x6 setup. I'm looking forward to that.
Here it is Full XTR with fat tire. Weight around 24lbs <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5562351716/" title="Spaceframe 3d by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5150/5562351716_50c6e75ce3_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Spaceframe 3d"></a><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5562350644/" title="The Bare bone by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5562350644_833ed5e05b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="The Bare bone"></a>
Mine came out around 26lbs with the normal weirwolf 2.55 front tire. SS. Not too bad. I notice when my fat tire is on, it handles very well on steep or any descent. BUt slightly hard on climbs. Overall if im on a rocky trail and alot of root descents etc. The fat tire is on! Have fun on yours
PS, how do the P35s feel for climbing? I appreciate the wider rim's benefits but 600g is getting heavy.. mind you compared to a fat front.. I'm still tempted to go for Flows for all-round use (2.2 RaceKings for road/gravel/summer hardpack tours, 2.4 Ardents for dirt) but the P35s come well-recommended. It's just the weight that bothers me, I want a fast-rolling bike and it's not going off any big drops. Some average ones, a few local DH runs maybe.
james-o, the taiwanese ti frames are due with jeff very soon, i'm expecting to get my shipment details in the next week or two,very exciting.
will post shots after i've got it caked in some gold old scottish muck...
My SS is probably 27lbs, so I bet you are in the ball park at 30 lbs.
Just buy it, it's a great bike.
I agree-I'd say my steel Spaceframe is the best bike I've ever had as far as being fun to ride goes. I have the fat front wheel on mine, and though it's not light (about 31 lbs), it feels a lot lighter than it is to ride. Power transfer feels to be a lot more direct than on my full suspension bike, which is nice for technical riding and climbing.
james-o, the taiwanese ti frames are due with jeff very soon, i'm expecting to get my shipment details in the next week or two,very exciting.
will post shots after i've got it caked in some gold old scottish muck...
Does anyone race one of these bikes? Really, not to be a jerk.
I want a rigid 29er. I love my current bikes that are all below 26lbs, without anything crazy... The rigid forks that I have ridden are rather flimsy, which I hate.
Sell me on the steel space frame. I love the look of the bike and the way everyone says it rides... I just cant get on board with a 30+lb 1x10 bike even with really expensive parts.
Like I said, I don't mean to offend anyone, I want one myself!!! I just need some reason to go this route and not some other way.
PS
I race and ride the mid Atlantic region, everything from fast flowy to fast and slow tech...
to be fair, i generally race 10-12 hr races on it...so the fun of the handling keeps me from falling off and going to sleep under a bush out of pure boredom for doing 12 hrs of laps :-)
ive also done xc races on it, and of course several sswc type races...
i should qualify, mine is ti, and well, is 20lb on the nose....but its the way they ride that keeps you happy, and after a few hrs riding hard, smiles are worth more than 2;b of weight...
Yes, people do race 40lb bikes... I don't. Really my build would look to be in the 30lb range. not a 20lb ss with super bling parts... I could deal with a 25-27lb bike but just cant seem to get behind the weight, I know there are a ton of other options, just not that many that hold my attention as much as this. I was just looking for a good review or testimonial that moves me to pull the trigger...
Here it is Full XTR with fat tire. Weight around 24lbs <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5562351716/" title="Spaceframe 3d by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5150/5562351716_50c6e75ce3_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Spaceframe 3d"></a><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5562350644/" title="The Bare bone by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5562350644_833ed5e05b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="The Bare bone"></a>
OMFG that is stunning.
I spoke with Jeff yesterday (ordered a loop H-bar), and I have to say he is a fantastic human being. I called to order a bar, and began asking some questions regarding stems and setup.
I am in the market to replace the frame on my commuter/fire road bike, and want to get a bike that can do it all - paved commutes, touring, fire roads, single track. I'm running an Alfine and would like to stick with the IGH drive train, and can take or leave my current belt drive (which I really like, but can easily go with a chain).
I've been considering a number of options, including the Van Dessel WTF , a Surly Crosscheck with the H-bar, '11 Salsa El Mariachi with rigid fork, Vassago Fisticuff, Surly KM, and the like.
Anyway, Jeff and I ended up talking (more Jeff than me - I was all ears on his philosophy) for over an hour. I was spellbound. Plus, Jeff is only a few years younger than I am, so we both share similar experience with cycling and the perspective/ethos that accompanies it.
Right now the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on the Diamond Frame (I need to be able to use racks) is the 135mm front hub. I run an Alfine dynamo with Supernova E3 Pro lighting (excellent system, BTW) and am looking into the option of rebuilding the hub with a long axle and extra spacers. I don't do any big drops or huge technical stuff, so I don't think I have to worry too much about that, it's just a matter of me checking to see if I can actually do an axle swap on that hub.
If I can, he he he he he he
Anyway, OT Tangent over. Hobbyfreak and other posters are only consolidating my opinion that a Jones is in my future.
Last edited by canyoneagle; 07-16-2011 at 11:25 AM.
Does anyone race one of these bikes? Really, not to be a jerk.
I want a rigid 29er. I love my current bikes that are all below 26lbs, without anything crazy... The rigid forks that I have ridden are rather flimsy, which I hate.
My bud here has a ~28lb SS Jones steel diamond frame, and a ~19lb Specialized SS set up rigid for racing. Given a choice on any particular day for a bike to ride for fun and competency, the Jones wins every time. On race day it is the Specialized though.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
What is your Out the Door expense into the black steel space Frame? TI groovy but out of reach.
I am really wanting to build Jones - but I need to budget accordingly.
You have it EXACTLY how I would have it... maybe custom neon orange paint to bother the bike snobs in the area...
(I know asking how much is horrible when dream bikes are involved.. but my wife and I are teachers in California... Funds are limited)
Thanks
My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!
What is your Out the Door expense into the black steel space Frame? TI groovy but out of reach.
I am really wanting to build Jones - but I need to budget accordingly.
You have it EXACTLY how I would have it... maybe custom neon orange paint to bother the bike snobs in the area...
(I know asking how much is horrible when dream bikes are involved.. but my wife and I are teachers in California... Funds are limited)
Thanks
I know this ain't (because you are a teacher ) addressed to me, but the frame/fork/headset/fat front combo is probably like this: $1500/$100/$600= $2200. From there you need to add your other bits (like rear wheel, brakes, drivetrain, etc. Hopefully that helps.
What is your Out the Door expense into the black steel space Frame? TI groovy but out of reach.
I am really wanting to build Jones - but I need to budget accordingly.
You have it EXACTLY how I would have it... maybe custom neon orange paint to bother the bike snobs in the area...
(I know asking how much is horrible when dream bikes are involved.. but my wife and I are teachers in California... Funds are limited)
Thanks
Since you're budget minded, I built my steel diamond (I know, it's not a spaceframe) Jones for $2100. This includes frame/fork/fat front/tire/headset/seatpost from Jones (with shipping), and all new components (mostly sale items). The only things not included in the price are the rear wheel and saddle, because I reused what I had. Not a top shelf build by any means, but it's a nice solid bike for me.
Adjust the price accordingly to build a similar spaceframe.
Enel, you just look huge on that bike. I'm sure you hear it all the time. Most the vids and pics you post show you standing on the pedals to pull a stunt or leaning back off the saddle on a steep. Question: is the bike comfortable for you just spinning and covering miles? Another question: do you still stand by your statement that it's tough to tell the difference between the two-bladed fork and the one on your bike?
Last edited by Slow Danger; 08-25-2011 at 03:13 PM.
Enel, you just look huge on that bike. I'm sure you hear it all the time. Most the vids and pics you post show you standing on the pedals to pull a stunt or leaning back off the saddle on a steep. Question: is the bike comfortable for you just spinning and covering miles? Another question: do you still stand by your statement that it's tought to tell the difference between the two-bladed fork and the one on your bike?
Funny because I thought the same thing when I saw the video. The bike looks two sizes too small, or I appear to be 6'5" when I am just a hair over 6 ft.
I find the bike comfortable for rides in the 3-4 hour range. For us 2/3 of that time is climbing, and a significant amount of that is out of the saddle effort. Descending for me is out of the saddle for the most part as well. Like any SS bike cruising the flats is painfully slow, but I don't find it uncomfortable.
I really like the fancy fork, but if I am honest, the difference in my short time on the two blade was not dramatic. I have only ridden the two blade less than 5 minutes of XC riding, so take it with a grain of salt. Dan did not feel the strut was tons different from the two blade in his 5 minutes on my bike as well. The strut has less fore-aft flex which I appreciate when pointed straight down.
Dan and I both feel the Jones is by far the best rigid bike we have owned and that is a cumulative 30 or more years mountain biking experience speaking. They tend to favor a more aggressive rider IMO. Dan has a 19 lb race SS that is reserved for racing. The rest of the time, he would much rather be on the 25 lb Jones.
Here is a video I made of a more typical riding day: Dan is riding his two blade. The bike rips this terrain as well.
Funny because I thought the same thing when I saw the video. The bike looks two sizes too small, or I appear to be 6'5" when I am just a hair over 6 ft.
I find the bike comfortable for rides in the 3-4 hour range. For us 2/3 of that time is climbing, and a significant amount of that is out of the saddle effort. Descending for me is out of the saddle for the most part as well. Like any SS bike cruising the flats is painfully slow, but I don't find it uncomfortable.
I really like the fancy fork, but if I am honest, the difference in my short time on the two blade was not dramatic. I have only ridden the two blade less than 5 minutes of XC riding, so take it with a grain of salt. Dan did not feel the strut was tons different from the two blade in his 5 minutes on my bike as well. The strut has less fore-aft flex which I appreciate when pointed straight down.
Dan and I both feel the Jones is by far the best rigid bike we have owned and that is a cumulative 30 or more years mountain biking experience speaking. They tend to favor a more aggressive rider IMO. Dan has a 19 lb race SS that is reserved for racing. The rest of the time, he would much rather be on the 25 lb Jones.
Here is a video I made of a more typical riding day: Dan is riding his two blade. The bike rips this terrain as well.
Funny because I thought the same thing when I saw the video. The bike looks two sizes too small, or I appear to be 6'5" when I am just a hair over 6 ft.
I find the bike comfortable for rides in the 3-4 hour range. For us 2/3 of that time is climbing, and a significant amount of that is out of the saddle effort. Descending for me is out of the saddle for the most part as well. Like any SS bike cruising the flats is painfully slow, but I don't find it uncomfortable.
I really like the fancy fork, but if I am honest, the difference in my short time on the two blade was not dramatic. I have only ridden the two blade less than 5 minutes of XC riding, so take it with a grain of salt. Dan did not feel the strut was tons different from the two blade in his 5 minutes on my bike as well. The strut has less fore-aft flex which I appreciate when pointed straight down.
Dan and I both feel the Jones is by far the best rigid bike we have owned and that is a cumulative 30 or more years mountain biking experience speaking. They tend to favor a more aggressive rider IMO. Dan has a 19 lb race SS that is reserved for racing. The rest of the time, he would much rather be on the 25 lb Jones.
Here is a video I made of a more typical riding day: Dan is riding his two blade. The bike rips this terrain as well.
Really good 'balance' to your more usual and more out there vids, which I so like. This one is really good though. Cool
I'm 6'3", 220 lbs (191cm, 99.2kg this morning).
Riding the 23" Jones steel SpaceFrame with steel Truss Fork, in Christchurch New Zealand.
My first entry here, after months of lurking... Thanks for all the great entries everybody. Very helpful and enlightening. I apologise right upfront that this entry is so long. There's just so much to say about the Jones, but I'll try to keep future entries shorter.
The Jones SpaceFrame & Truss Fork has been at the top of my dreambike list since 2003, when I first read about it. But the price.... So last October when I discovered the steel SpaceFrame with its way lower price, I ordered it without hesitation. A dream held that long - when the door swings open you have to leap through. Actually, I did hesitate - really I wanted the Titanium version, but economics still won out. I still wish for the Ti. The dream continues.
I received my black steel SpaceFrame in March this year, and it's time to say something...
I LOVE THIS BIKE. And if you're thinking about getting one, then you already believe in Jeff Jones' philosophy and resulting ride, and... you should just get it. Anything flowing, technical, up, down, or along, at any speed, fast or slow - this bike is fantastic at it it.
Yes, I love this bike and it's the best riding trail bike I've had in 22 years. But it's been a long journey, these last 6 months with my Jones.
Right from the start, I loved the ride. Unlike anything I have ridden, and better. (My mountain bike history, starting in 1990, is: Shogun Prairie Breaker Pro, three Rocky Mountain Blizzards, Specialized Stumpjumper M2 Pro, Santa Cruz Heckler, Niner Sir 9, and now Jones SpaceFrame. All of them steel, a couple of them Reynolds 853, a couple of them Tange Prestige, 2 aluminium. All the good stuff. No titanium...still wondering.)
At my height, it took me a long time to sort out the fit/reach, what with the short 23"/585mm (for me) top tube and the Loop Bars bringing my hands back so close to me. I also struggled with the weight of the bike, especially given that most of my rides here start with 1000'+ of fairly steep climbing. I was having a lot of doubts about the heavy looking 35mm wide P35 rims and the perceived burliness of the frame with all those solid looking black tubes. A lot of this struggle was mental: being unfit, and mentally wrestling with the numbers of weight. 22 sounds amazing, 24 sounds light, 26 sounds ok, 28 sounds heavy, 30 sounds borderline too heavy, and anything over 32 sounds crazy, like a freeride bike. All that is mental, and emotional. And it was all going on in my head! I weighed it on my cheap airline baggage scales.... 32lbs. Ouch. Crazy.
Note that despite that weight, the bike still rode superbly, especially on flowing singletrack. Fantastic! Solid, stable, accurate, swift, safe, dependable. Best bike ever, for me. But when the trail suddenly went up, all momentum would cease.
But the bike WAS heavy, due in part to my component choices. Jones Loop Bar. 3x9 SLX drivetrain. Avid BB7 mechanicals. Straitline platform pedals. The 35mm wide Velocity P35 rims (I love 28mm wide rims on my trail bikes, but 35mm?). Phil Wood rear hub, which'll go forever but weighs 550g! WTB Stout 2.3 tyres - avoid these - 950g each with not much volume (not 2.3)... insane! I only used them because a friend lent them to me. With these tyres, even at pinch-flat-risking low pressures, the bike felt harsh. Not what I was expecting from a Jones! Where was all that promised compliance?!! My Niner Sir9 is incredibly smooth, and I expected even more from the Jones.
I also felt the front end was wandering on really steep low-traction uphills, and*I had problems holding the bars on those steep uphills because the Loop Bars get narrow at the place I wanted to hold them (where the crossbar meets).*
I was loving the ride most of the time, but it just wasn't living up to its potential for me.
So, what do I attribute the turn around to….? In short, a lot of tweaks, quite a few conversations with Jeff, and taking his advice on adopting some changes to my riding style while climbing.
The key changes have been tyres and stem/bars.
TYRES... Lighter, more volume, lower pressure. I replaced the Stouts (950g) with a Racing Ralph 2.4 (550g) on the front and at the back a Specialized Purgatory (695g & much tougher than the Racing Ralph). That made the back wheel feel lighter to the extent that I stopped being concerned about the weight of the Phil Wood rear hub completely. And it took away the harshness. Amazing what different tyres can do. Suddenly I''m completely happy with the 35mm wide P35 rims. I also tried a WTB Laserdisc wheel + Crossmark 2.1 at the rear, but it didn't add much to the experience.*The P35 + Purgatory at low pressure is awesome. Great traction and super smooth.
A note for those thinking the P35 rims are too heavy... On recent rides on flat, pine forest singletrack where it's really all about speed, the Jones has been fast! You stand up and wind it quickly up to speed (with no suspension bobbing), then fly. I often coast while following other riders pedalling hard on their 26ers (but I do that on my Niner Sir9 too). Very grin-inducing.
STEM / BARS... There's no question the Loop Bars are really good, but there's also no question they were causing problems for me. Main problem was that they really need to be further away from me, but there's only so long a stem you want to add. They really need thumb-shifters mounted on the forward section of the loop, because the XTR trigger shifters I'm using sit right where I need to grip the bars when I'm climbing steeply. It doesn't help that at that point the bars are getting too narrow for me to stably hold when standing up climbing steep stuff. So the answer there was a 110mm stem at first, then a 100mm stem and simply replacing the Loop Bars with my FSA Gravity 777 flat bars (cut down to 71cm wide), robbed from the* Sir 9. Those 777's have more give to them too, so that made the front end a bit less harsh. And suddenly the front end felt good. I still believe in the Loop Bars and I know I like them for touring. 25mm longer on the frame would allow me to go back to the Loop Bars I think. The flat bars lost another 100g or so off the bike too.
JEFF'S ADVICE... He's great to talk to on the phone, and I believe what he says. Jeff said I need to stand up more while climbing steep stuff, and not mind my hands being on the back end of the Loop Bars close to my body. We all know you lose traction if you stand up to pedal on really steep uphills. But...not on Jeff's bikes! He explained why - it all made sense - I did it - and it worked! So I'm trying to undo 20 years of learned instinct and stand up more on steep climbs. He also encouraged me to stick with the wide rims, load up fatter and lighter tyres, and to "just ride it and ride it and ride it".
SO…. those changes did it. They conspired to make the bike more controllable on steep uphills, less harsh, and lighter. Now just under 30lbs I think. That still sounds heavy to me, but it actually doesn't feel so heavy now. And running the high volume tyres really soft makes it roll really "lightly" and softly too.
Testament to the light, high volume tyres... I recently rode the Heaphy Track here in New Zealand. It's all fantastic riding singletrack, and we enjoyed riding it over three days, carrying sleeping and cooking gear, spending 3-5 hours a day in the saddle. I rode the Jones with a 5kg load on a rear rack, and to the Jones' credit, never noticed the load back there! Which means for me the heavy Phil Wood hub and P35 rims are not an issue. The bike was a dream. For me, the perfect bike for such a trip.
The Jones is still harsh on fast rock-studded descents. That seems to be suspension territory. Or perhaps the Fat Front, which I'm seriously considering.
I'd still like the Jones to be lighter, and longer in the top tube, not black, and of course titanium….but let's see how I feel about that in a year or two. Perhaps I could get a 24" Ti by then. I'm very curious to hear the comparisons by those who have both the Steel and the Ti SpaceFrames. Hobbyfreak, you appear to have both. What have you found?
Again, sorry about the long entry. If you're on the fence about a Jones, I hope it helps in some way. You've all helped me. Thanks.
I've had mine since around March, same bike with both front wheel setups. It definitely keeps getting better. I'm 6' and the fit is great, very comfortable position. I love the aluminum Titec J bar. Another item that really works well are the Dual control Shimano levers. The cable operated ones are still easy to find and they free up bar space.
With the P35/Ardent 2.4, 30lbs. The Fat front adds 2.5 lbs, but that sucker will amaze you.
Nice bike Rich
I have been riding my 24 diamond ti jones for a few years now and love it. I will echo that it is the best rigid bike I have thrown a leg over. It is a blast. I find it amazing how hard I can rail on that thing.
I have it set up with GORDOS, which have been bullit proof (especially for my 220lb frame). Was thinking of swapping them out for Stans Flows to add a little zoom and allow for tubeless. Anybody have any thoughts? I'm a little apprehensive that I will miss the crazy/supportive stiffness of the GORDOS, especially when blasting into rock gardens. Enel....I think you went this direction on one of your bikes, was there much of a noticeable difference. Thanks for any input.
Enel....I think you went this direction on one of your bikes, was there much of a noticeable difference. Thanks for any input.
Gordos are stiffer, but heavier. For me, Flows are the perfect compromise. Anything lighter is too flexy. Anything heavier....well, I am enough of a weenie to notice and dislike. I was pleased to lose the Gordos for Flows.
However, you are 40-50lbs heavier than I am, and I find I beat up wheelsets more on the rigid than I do on a suspension frame.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
I'm 6'3", 220 lbs (191cm, 99.2kg this morning).
Riding the 23" Jones steel SpaceFrame with steel Truss Fork, in Christchurch New Zealand......
Great first post!
Originally Posted by mbudd
Yes, I love this bike and it's the best riding trail bike I've had in 22 years. But it's been a long journey, these last 6 months with my Jones.....
I really think, deep down in my heart that so many mountain bikers are simply riding bikes that are too large. The limited sizing of the Jones has forced larger riders onto a smaller frame and behold, they love it.
Originally Posted by mbudd
.........So the answer there was a 110mm stem at first, then a 100mm stem and simply replacing the Loop Bars with my FSA Gravity 777 flat bars (cut down to 71cm wide)
I completely disagree with Jones on his bar thingy and am glad to see you have given in to reason
Originally Posted by mbudd
JEFF'S ADVICE... ...I need to stand up more while climbing steep stuff
Absolutely, positively, this bike is a stand to climb sort of vehicle. Gear up. Stand.
Originally Posted by mbudd
The Jones is still harsh on fast rock-studded descents. That seems to be suspension territory. Or perhaps the Fat Front, which I'm seriously considering..
Suspension.
I just completed testing back to back a fat front versus regular 29" set up and I will take the 29" set up any day. Fat Front is good at high speeds in rough stuff and pretty much sucked everywhere else. I. M . O.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
Gordos are stiffer, but heavier. For me, Flows are the perfect compromise. Anything lighter is too flexy. Anything heavier....well, I am enough of a weenie to notice and dislike. I was pleased to lose the Gordos for Flows.
However, you are 40-50lbs heavier than I am, and I find I beat up wheelsets more on the rigid than I do on a suspension frame.
Thanks for the input Enel. The Gordos have been virtually bullit proof, and I have just been pounding on them, part of me is of the mind that if it ain't broke don't fix it, but they are heavy!
For various reasons I havent been on my jones in about 3 weeks.I road it today just aquick little ride and one more time I get off this bike just blown away! I wish I could afford to build one in the 20lb rangefor racing .The handling is just so perfect!
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the encouragement.
bluestatevirgin: Glad you liked the post. Nice to find someone who appreciates my verbosity! The Purgatory I'm running at the rear is a 2.4. I measured the carcass width and it's exactly the same as the Racing Ralph 2.4. The Purgatory is half the price of an RR and seems to be a lot tougher on the sidewalls without much sacrifice in weight. So once my front RR gets torn like the back one did, I'll replace it with another Purgatory.
rjedoaks: Thanks Rich. I'm very curious to try the Fat Front. Hoping it will smooth out those rock-studded trails that aren't much fun. I saw some of those Dual control Shimano levers at a great price and considered them, but Jeff told me they wouldn't work on the Loop Bars cos they'd place the levers too far forward for you to use on really steep descents when you want your hands right a the rear of the Loop Bars (I know they do work on the J and H bars).
enel: Thanks for the encouragement! I too feel that many riders could benefit from smaller frames. But I sure did kick and squirm being forced into one! I'm loving the bike with my flat bars on it. Perhaps I started out with just too many new-to-me variables? I do like the Loop Bars in many other ways. In fact, I did find the Loop Bars fantastic most of the time, especially down unexpected nasty steep rolling dropoffs - I'd just scoot back on the grips and trust the front end to stay stable and go where I wanted it to and not jack-knife. The Loop Bars (and the whole bike) were brilliant in those instances, as well as for many more. I just couldn't enjoy steep climbing with them. I think an extra inch of top tube length would get me back onto the Loop Bars.
morandi: I am now vouching for the P35's. I think they're lighter than the Gordos? I was actually contemplating the Flows myself, but Jeff convinced me to head in the direction of low pressure higher volume tyres rather than narrower rims for rolling speed and low rolling resistance. "The wider the rim, the more it opens up the tyre tread", effectively making the tyre fatter. For me the result has been, dare I say, a magic carpet ride (almost literally!) - super smooth. And for rock gardens I would have thought higher tyre volume is your friend because it allows you to run lower pressures, which in a rock garden would give you more comfort and traction as the soft tyres somewhat mould themselves over the rocks.
It's refreshing to hear that not everyone 100% 'clicks' with the Jones design immediately. If we all said we did, there would be something wrong! ) there's nothing better than a bike that you've worked with a little to get really comfy with.
I noted your point about the loop bar. I went for a s/h set of the older style ti H bars as the cross-piece join is wider and I like that grip position for SS climbing. I was concerned that the Loop would feel too narrow in that area. I ride on the road a fair bit (50-50 with MTB) so i love the H bar as it lets me use the same climbing style as a big-ring grinder.
Maybe try the H-bar (titec?) i/o the flat bar? I do think the H-/ Loop bar position really helps you handle a rigid bike better. I wouldn't use the H on my hardtail or FS bike, but I'm now interested to try a flat bar onthe Jones...
When i get it built that is. Hopefully this weekend. Getting those P35s here has been difficult, then the right spokes.. It's a leap of faith in Jeff's experience that made me go for P35s, they feel heavy and I was going to go for Flows as a compromise. Jeff seems to be a big fan of the P35 so, well everything else he recommends seems to work well. Ahh it's only 75g a rim over a Flow.. inner tubes weigh more than that.
Interested in trying the Purgatory tyres, what are they like in the wet?
I've been using the Mary bars on mine. Threw them on cause the sweep was similar to the Jones but at a lower weight because they are one tube and don't have the forward extensions. That and they were laying around in the garage when I ordered the frame. Gonna pick up the real deal eventually. I'm 6'2" and didn't have to do any tweaking. Jeff recommended the stem length and post size perfectly.
I took my Jones to a slightly more technical trail. Lots of rocks, roots, I was happy I had Larry in front. Grip is just fantastic, can't wait to try Nate or Big fat Larry for even better performance. Now if only photographer wasn't that scarred...
I really think, deep down in my heart that so many mountain bikers are simply riding bikes that are too large. The limited sizing of the Jones has forced larger riders onto a smaller frame and behold, they love it.
If you're tall, you've been forced to use longer, larger frames to keep from endo-ing all the time. 29ers change all that.
I'm 6'-2", and rode a Mojo. Loved the bike, but endo'd more than anyone else around me. I attributed it to my clumsiness. When I went to a Rip9, even though the top tube is identical, and the wheelbase is less than 1/2" longer, it was night and day. I felt so incredibly stable and sure-footed.
The only endo I've done was when I tried to loft the front over a big log and failed, and hit it dead on. Most people clumsy enough to do that one in the first place won't really be able to recover.
So, I think what you say has some truth, especially for tall people.
If you like the steel version of the Jones Spaceframe, you will love the titanium version. I have both and the Ti rides completely different. Different in good ways. It handles the bumps so well. I am running a Larry up front on the steel Jones and a Big Fat Larry on the Ti paired with a Racing Ralph in the rear. I do not even ride my FS anymore.
I rode my steel frame / ti forked Jones with Larry up front this weekend in Lake Tahoe on some pretty tough rides. It rips! I am only 5'9" tall and I'm using a 70mm stem, but that seems to work for me. I have recently been using a new Answer Carbon riser bar 720mm wide. I'm really liking it. I was faster this weekend than my friends on a Rip9 and Lenz Leviathon. I too wish the bike was lighter, but it doesn't bother me when riding. Mine is about 28lbs.
Enel
I just completed testing back to back a fat front versus regular 29" set up and I will take the 29" set up any day. Fat Front is good at high speeds in rough stuff and pretty much sucked everywhere else. I. M . O. Quote
That is why I like the Fat so much. Plush and stable at speed. I need all the help i can get. For me as a trail bike , the Fat works really well, but it does make the front end feel heavier. My skill level is not anywhere near yours, and I haven't done any super technical routes.
Why does it suck? Steering too slow? That nice vid you posted seems like a good candidate for Larry, no? thanks Rich
I asked on an older Jones thread, but will post here as it is more current...
Anyone 5'4" have any experience on a spaceframe? The Jones website says 5'4' and above...just curious as I thought 29ers were pretty much not for me given my height. I love the look of the bike, and the ride sounds amazing....
James-O: Thanks for the encouragement :-)
The Purgatory tyres seem to be great in the wet. Although I've only had them for 3 weeks, I've ridden them on mud, wet gravel, wet rock, hard snow, slushy snow, soaking wet grass, and wet boardwalks covered in chicken wire, and they've been great! I haven't ridden them on slippery wet tree roots yet, so can't vouch for that.
The P35's… Keep your faith alive with the P35's (hey - I should sell that catchy marketing phrase to Velocity!). I think the P35's will reward you. I was tempted by Flows too, even after I'd got my P35 wheels built. That was when I was running the low volume 950g WTB Stouts. But now that I've ridden the P35's more and sorted out other issues, I'm really glad I have the P35's.
To anyone thinking about running the P35's on their SpaceFrame, I'd say get them! But then make sure you follow through by mounting them with high volume tyres. It's a great combination.
Thanks for the H/J/Loop bar suggestions. I'm still keen on them, so I'll keep working on a solution. I did a big ride today (2,500' of climbing) and my right side neck/shoulder muscles ended up burning, which is the one problem I seem to have these days with flat bars. (I think it's related to how I hold a computer mouse.) The Loop Bars didn't do that.
bluestatevirgin: you're right - the Specialized Purgatory is 780g on the Specialized site. My el-cheapo scale was malfunctioning when I got that tyre so I just mounted it on the rim without weighing it.
Have you read the review of the Purgatory at twentynineinches.com
Look up 2010/09/16 specialized-purgatory. I can't put the link in for you as I haven't logged 10 posts yet!
Tripower: lucky you to have both the Steel and the Ti SpaceFrames! Can you tell us more about the ride comparisons between the Steel and the Ti SpaceFrames? Is there anything you prefer to use the steel SpaceFrame for? (To let us steel SpaceFrame owners sleep at night!) Thanks.
Hi t.h., I'm 6'3" so obviously I can't advise you on a 29er working for you. But... have you tried a 29er? because I can say this: 29ers ride differently to 26ers, and there are a lot of riders your height riding and loving 29ers. It's all about:
A. the bottom bracket being lower relative to the hubs - that changes the way the bike rides, particularly cornering, and you sit more "in" the bike than "on" it.
B. the tyre's contact patch with the ground is larger - this gives you more traction, which you'll notice climbing and cornering.
C. the larger wheel gives you more stability - which you'll notice cornering, and "flowing" down trails.
I'm doing this in a hurry, so I've probably missed some other key things, but these elements make a 29er significantly different to a 26er. Worth a test ride of any 29er!
TH, the idea that 29ers are only for tall riders has no logic. It's easier for bike designers to make a large-frame 29er, but 5'4" should be possible, with a custom if not with a stock design. I don't count the Jones as a stock design really, but it's not custom either. Now that designers have realised that 72 degree headangles aren't a good idea the top tube - front centre balance can be a lot better for small-frame 29ers.
Call Jeff, he'll know. I honestly believe if he doesn't think it's for you he'll say so, he's a bike designer not a salesman.
mbudd, thanks looks like I'll try out the Purgatory then, it's geting wet here and by the time i get this bike built and get time for a long ride it'll be wetter...
(Anyone have any idea what it's like having a new spaceframe sitting here part-built with no wheels, for 3 weeks?? : ) It's lovely to look at, but I just want to get it dirty!)
I have to say, as shallow as it may be, I don't like the looks of most small 29ers. I tested a Giant at my LBS and it was fun. It just looked funny. The spaceframe is a totally different beast. I love the way it looks, and if the ride quality is as people describe here, it would be a great option for me both aesthetically and performance-wise.
Thanks for the advice. I will give Jeff a call and let you know what he says!
Tripower: lucky you to have both the Steel and the Ti SpaceFrames! Can you tell us more about the ride comparisons between the Steel and the Ti SpaceFrames? Is there anything you prefer to use the steel SpaceFrame for? (To let us steel SpaceFrame owners sleep at night!) Thanks.
The ti is much lighter and responsive. It doesn't "ring" like steel does when you are going over bumps. The ti seems to absorb the bumps much like a shock.
Since I signed up here mainly to get more info on the Jones frame last year, lurked for a while soaking up info, I'm posting a couple of images of things I've doen to my as-yet-uncomplete build that may be of interest.
Some of the new frames seem to not have crud-catcher mounts, I use these things pretty much year-round so when my frame didn't have them initially I was disappointed. For about 5 minutes. I went out riding that day in some really wet conditions and the fender I had on the downtube did a poor job of keeping the mud out of my eyes, most of it was flicked forward of the fork crown and up in my face.
I went back home and was looking at the fork.. dug up an unfitted Cycra fender and with a zip-tie, a Leffe beer cork and a self-tapping screw did this -
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6133476188/" title="IMAG0752 by james-o, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6205/6133476188_96fa5805d4.jpg" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0752"></a>
Pretty pleased... looks like it was made for the job! : )
Here's Cycra's page - CycraGuard - Rear Mud Guard
I rate these as the best guards out there. Really nice design.
A few weeks ago I polished up some disc mounts as my frame's got mainly silver parts -
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6133475722/" title="IMAG0751 by james-o, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6063/6133475722_669ea4db5f.jpg" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0751"></a>
And I flipped my thumbie mount - a SJS Cycles UK version - and popped it onto my current rigid SS to see how it interfered with my hand positions. It doesn't, I hardly notice it here. The mount is quite high when on top of the bar, so ideal under the bar. I rotated the mount base 90 degrees and the lever throw is perfect for a 6-7spd range, really ergonomic. This is great as I prefer the older H-bar shape but it's not as flexible in shifter mount options. I'm using a cut cassette on a Hope SS if I gear it, but the initial build will be SS.
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6132929099/" title="IMAG0753 by james-o, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6194/6132929099_9e415eb5ae.jpg" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0753"></a>
Otherwise it's looking like a pretty standard build, WHub + Hope SS on P35s, Ardents or Rubber Queens, Thomson kit once I have my position worked out. 980 XTR crank with a Goldtec ring, 18T at the rear. XT 1st gen servowave brakes, since the new style XTR + XT levers are too short to really work with the grip range of H-bars. A shame.. but the old XTs are awesome brakes.
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6133534702/" title="IMAG0575 by james-o, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6182/6133534702_e2fcbcfa4d.jpg" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0575"></a>
Just killing time before the actual build-up..
(killing time with multiple edits and a crash-course in html image posting too!)
James-O, yes I do know what it feels like to have a new spaceframe sitting here part-built with no wheels, for 3 weeks! I received mine 1 week before heading off on 2 weeks of rail trail touring and mountain biking with a school group. All I had to do in that 1 week was get the front wheel built. I sent the hub off, made all the phonecalls, pulled out all the stops... It didn't happen. What made it worse was that I had a week off between the trips - what better than to do the trip once on my Niner Sir 9, then do the identical trip a week later on the Jones? What a great comparison. And surely that wheel would be ready for the 2nd trip, what with having 2 weeks to have it built? It didn't happen. I think it was 5 weeks from my receipt of the Jones until I got that wheel and could actually ride it. I'm getting depressed thinking back to it! Yes - I feel your pain!
But.... man you are making me jealous with all those gorgeous parts you're showing us. Can't wait to see the bike!
James-O, did your Crud Catcher / down tube mudguard come with rubber rings to attach it without the DT mounting bosses? Mine (from Jeff) did, even though my SpaceFrame actually does have the bosses.
I haven't had any mud come up in my face at all, but I also zip-tied some stretched inner tube to the underside of the Truss Fork's "horizontal stabilisers" at the fork crown area, like downhillers do between their fork brace and fork crown. I did it mainly to keep mud off my Nokon cables, so they don't wear on each other too much. It seems to work really well. I'll get you a photo.
^
: ) there's something nice about the anticipation of the build but enough's enough!
I saw your mud flap on the fork, it was the neoprene sus fork flap (like the DH guards) a friend had that wet day last weekend that got me thinking on those same lines. Does the same job I expect. It was really wet, not muddy, spray was the problem as I was braking on descents just to lower the amount coming off the wheel.
I didn't order a Crud Catcher from Jeff as I have a collection of Crud's and Cycra's front fenders in the garage already. It was the unused rear sat in a box that just looked spot on for the job when I started looking for the straps.
Gonna make a light bracket next i think, I have a bit of Alu the right size and a round file the size of the truss supports.. and another few days to kill.. !
this is a great bike. i had the diamond version first, but i knew i had to have the spaceframe. i had the 29er wheel first, but knew i wanted the fat front. now i know i need to have the Ti version, we will see what happens there
it really is a bike you have to ride to understand. i was wondering about the 23" frame as i ride a large in most bikes. it took a bit to get it figured out, i'm using a 110mm stem with a 15 degree rise with the loop bars. with the Luv Bars i was using a 90mm stem. still trying to figure out the bars. i like the loop bars but climbing at times it seems odd and other times they seem like the best bar's ever. gonna try my Surly Torsion bars as soon as the trails dry out from all the hurricane's that have come thru here.
the fat front is all i can ride now. switched bikes on the trail the other day with someone who has a full tilt carbon race bike as he wanted to see what it was about. 1st turn in the trail with his 2.0 tires and i was on my ass. getting ready to put a Surly Nate that i just got on the front and see how that goes.
if anybody is in the Maryland/Delaware area and rides Fairhill and wants to take a spin let me know. your more then welcome to try it out.
James-O, well spotted. I'm attaching a photo for anyone else who's interested of the stretched inner tube zip-tied to the underside of the Truss Fork's "horizontal stabilisers" at the fork crown area. It does seem to work in keeping mud off the Nokon cables. Makes a good spot to park a cup of coffee if nothing else
Also attaching a sunny photo for you... there's sunshine out there somewhere! Have hope! And from my position now after 5 months riding the bike, those suffering initial weeks of waiting are long forgotten. Almost.
this is a great bike. i had the diamond version first, but i knew i had to have the spaceframe. i had the 29er wheel first, but knew i wanted the fat front. now i know i need to have the Ti version, we will see what happens there
it really is a bike you have to ride to understand. i was wondering about the 23" frame as i ride a large in most bikes. it took a bit to get it figured out, i'm using a 110mm stem with a 15 degree rise with the loop bars. with the Luv Bars i was using a 90mm stem. still trying to figure out the bars. i like the loop bars but climbing at times it seems odd and other times they seem like the best bar's ever. gonna try my Surly Torsion bars as soon as the trails dry out from all the hurricane's that have come thru here.
the fat front is all i can ride now. switched bikes on the trail the other day with someone who has a full tilt carbon race bike as he wanted to see what it was about. 1st turn in the trail with his 2.0 tires and i was on my ass. getting ready to put a Surly Nate that i just got on the front and see how that goes.
if anybody is in the Maryland/Delaware area and rides Fairhill and wants to take a spin let me know. your more then welcome to try it out.
I just put the Nate on my steel spaceframe. Gnarly traction even on decomposed granite trails. Can't wait for the first rain to try it out in the mud.
Tripower: So when do you ride the Steel SF and when do you ride the Ti SF? Interesting to hear you talk about the smoothness of the Ti on bumps. Really fast bumpy/lumpy stuff is where I'm really being punished on my Steel SpaceFrame, especially following friends on full suss bikes. I'm certainly not new to riding rigid bikes, but when my arms are being shaken to jelly like this and my wrists are being pounded into powder, it really makes me wonder if I need to have a full susser in the stable after all. Will the Fat Front solve this? I'd appreciate your experience and thoughts. Thanks.
davefj40: I love Brooks saddles, and have been riding them since the late 90's. Especially touring. I have often considered using them mountain biking but haven't because I find they cut into my thighs when riding off the saddle. And I'd hate to hit the Brooks with my chest if I crashed on it. What kind of trails do you ride?
I mostly ride the Ti. I use the steel as a backup and a bike for my friends to use when we go riding together. I just put a Big Fat Larry on the Ti and running it at about 8-9 psi. It really absorbs the bumps and the increased rolling resistance is negligible. It also weighs less than the Larry. It is really hard to put into words how the Ti rides differently. Everyone that has riden my steel and the Ti just have big smiles when they return after the Ti ride. If you are out my way, you are more than welcome to try it out.
mbudd,
The fat front smoothes everything, but it is not a fully. If all your friends have full suspension, you will always feel battered, that is unless you have a higher skill level then your buds. You still need to choose your lines.
Yeah the Jones style is slower, more methodical. Full sus style is more about holding on and bashing over obstacles. They might be faster, but you'll be using far more skill. Agreed, the two styles don't always mix.
That is why I like the Fat so much. Plush and stable at speed. I need all the help i can get. For me as a trail bike , the Fat works really well, but it does make the front end feel heavier. My skill level is not anywhere near yours, and I haven't done any super technical routes.
Why does it suck? Steering too slow? That nice vid you posted seems like a good candidate for Larry, no? thanks Rich
It sucks on the trail because it is heavy and I spend 2/3 of any particular ride climbing. 80% of the remaining third is at moderate speeds or smoother terrain where the benefit of the fat wheel is not particularly pronounced, and the bike feels lifeless and slow to respond. It does not have more traction than a typical 29" tire although the fatty drifts more easily. The fat is dreamy during the 5% of the time where I am hauling through small chop. Oh well, so I have to go a bit slower or take more of a beating for a minute or two out of every hour of riding.
In rocky chunk, the fat sucks on the ups because it is heavy and most of the moves involve burst type sprinting. On the down moves it sucks because it dives into its "travel". On the flat it sucks because it has less circumference and falls into cracks a 29" wheel will not. Larry does not have any more grip on rock than a properly set up 29" wheel in my experience. It is slightly more cushy than a 29" wheel in rough chunk at slow speeds, but that is not worth the other trade offs to me. If I need that cush I will just ride suspended.
Fat tires rule when flotation is required and are a less than ideal set up otherwise in my experience. Now ask JNCarpenter what he thinks!!
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
Steve Worland is a very well respected guy in the UK bike industry. He seemed to like the fat front and rated the steel diamond frame highly. But I can imagine the tyre not being so good for the riding I've seen in Enel's videos.
I need to get some photos up from the Wanaka Trails and Otago Rail Trail trips I told you about. If you dig around the Blog, you'll find other good stuff too. (I write/shoot the Blog with a fellow cyclist/photographer/coffee drinker friend. I'm The Old Man, he's The Grouch - an old East Coast mountain bike racer from the early 90's. Says he'd have killed for a Jones back in those days.)
davefj40: I love Brooks saddles, and have been riding them since the late 90's. Especially touring. I have often considered using them mountain biking but haven't because I find they cut into my thighs when riding off the saddle. And I'd hate to hit the Brooks with my chest if I crashed on it. What kind of trails do you ride?[/QUOTE]
i ride mostly singletrack with rocks and roots. god knows what it's like now, haven't been out in 2 weeks since all the hurricanes and rain that has come thru the northeast.
no problems with the brooks at all. i have the regular B17 on my geared bike and the narrow one on the singlespeed. always wanted to try the one with the springs.
just got the Nate mounted today with a 2.4 ardent on a Hope singlespeed with a Flow on the back. but they are calling for rain today also.
I just received my Jones steel Diamond frame with the fat fork. Yeh, it's not the spaceframe but, I too have found it difficult at best dealing with the anticipation of the finished product. I immediately ordered the steel truss fork and a front wheel. The wait is gonna be stressful as I need to get more parts to complete the build.
I would like to hear more about your experience with the Groovycycleworks Luv Bar? I was definately considering that bar as an option even though it will not be until March 2012 before I can pre-order one.
Just finished up a two hour ride in intensely technical slow chunk and all I can say is that this bike delivers. Very confidence inspiring in every way.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
But I can imagine the tyre not being so good for the riding I've seen in Enel's videos.
It absolutely works for the type of riding I like. You just need to be a stronger, more skilled rider than me.
See this thread for pics of a fat front Jones ridden skillfully in my terrain.
In my opinion, it takes more skill and power to ride the fat front versus a 29" front. Either way, I really appreciate the stiffness of the truss fork and a symmetric 135mm front wheel.
Riding the fat to me is like intentionally handicapping oneself which is not a big deal if you are into it. I have even heard of people who ride unsuspended bikes for fun!
E
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
@MBUDD: Wow thats long. BUt its good because I can relate on some of your issue's. Now comparing the Ti (Brother in law) and my Steel.
First both bikes are great. My quickest interpretation on riding the ti compare to the steel. Ti : my whole body feels numb, i dont feel the trail as much. BIke feels definitely lighter to pedal.
The Steel on the other hand, your riding the trail! you feel every bit of it. In a good way, you know how to react. It does not beat you up. It has a very unique flex around the seat tube that it almost feels like a full suspension frame (extreme comparison). Sometimes I feel like its too much.
So in short it is a completely different animal to be comparing to. It really depends on what type of rider you are. I would definitely invest on the Ti if you have the cash flow, but the steel is not too far behind.
The geometry of both SF are exactly the same. Hands down the best rigid and the most sexiest frame one can ride. What can I do, Im a believer!
I hope this clarifies some questions. If not lets keep this going!
Thanks
I would like to hear more about your experience with the Groovycycleworks Luv Bar? I was definately considering that bar as an option even though it will not be until March 2012 before I can pre-order one.
i like it alot. i think i like it more then the loop bar but i'm still sorting that out. i would love to try the Ti version as it would help dampen things a little i think. i might have a friend selling a steel one, i'll check. that is a crazy backlog Rody has now.
i also really like the Surly Torsion bar, they are cheap but they have a great feel to them.
Thanks, I always wondered why you never used the Fat front. The weight can definitely be felt when climbing. I'm used to it now though. Rich
Originally Posted by Enel
It sucks on the trail because it is heavy and I spend 2/3 of any particular ride climbing. 80% of the remaining third is at moderate speeds or smoother terrain where the benefit of the fat wheel is not particularly pronounced, and the bike feels lifeless and slow to respond. It does not have more traction than a typical 29" tire although the fatty drifts more easily. The fat is dreamy during the 5% of the time where I am hauling through small chop. Oh well, so I have to go a bit slower or take more of a beating for a minute or two out of every hour of riding.
In rocky chunk, the fat sucks on the ups because it is heavy and most of the moves involve burst type sprinting. On the down moves it sucks because it dives into its "travel". On the flat it sucks because it has less circumference and falls into cracks a 29" wheel will not. Larry does not have any more grip on rock than a properly set up 29" wheel in my experience. It is slightly more cushy than a 29" wheel in rough chunk at slow speeds, but that is not worth the other trade offs to me. If I need that cush I will just ride suspended.
Fat tires rule when flotation is required and are a less than ideal set up otherwise in my experience. Now ask JNCarpenter what he thinks!!
Thanks for the feedback to my post earlier on this thread regarding smaller riders and the Spaceframe...
I did speak to Jeff today. He has riders that are 5'4'' and smaller (his daughter rides a Spaceframe to school!) and it works well. Lowering the seatpost effectively shortens the top-tube. With a shorter stem and Jones bars it sounds like a go! Jeff was great on the phone, and sent me a bunch of "fit pictures" via email after we spoke to help me see the look of the bike for a shorter rider.
Now, the dough...Thanks to everyone for your input. The bike sounds fantastic...I can get on a 29er after all....
It's such a great ride. Very unique, and in so many great ways. It's almost, for me, been like beginning a new cycling journey. I hope you'll share with us your own journey with it.
Stryker - Good luck waiting! It's worth it of course, but there are quite a few Jones-specific parts that make it even harder. The front wheel build being the obvious one.
Pounded while following friends on full sussers down some fast lines…
Regarding what you've all said about my feeling somewhat pounded while following friends on full sussers down some fast lines…. thanks. You're right. The Jones has a different riding style to a full susser, and going down rough bumpy lines is a real strength of the Jones, but needs to be taken slower for full enjoyment! I have to remember it's a very small sacrifice given that those occasions make up 5% of my riding.
Comparisons of the Steel SF to the Ti SF...
Hobbyfreak and Tripower - Your comparisons of the Steel SpaceFrame to the Ti SpaceFrame are really helpful.
Hobbyfreak, you made a lightbulb go off for me: I've been thinking of the Steel SF as the poor man's Titanium SF (it certainly is for me!), but you made me realise that the Steel SF has it's own place alongside the Ti, with its own strengths over the Ti. Am I reading correctly? Can you expand on that? Tripower, thanks for the invitation to try your bike. I'm in New Zealand, and I assume you're not…?!
Fat Front vs regular 29" front…
Thanks Enel for all your very thoughtful and helpful comments. I'm hoping to try a Surly Pugsley on the trails here. While obviously being a completely different type of bike, it'll give me some idea of the Larry-type fat tyres.
Enel - I loved those photos and videos of your chunk riding by the way. Incredible! I used to try stuff like that, but I'm hesitant to risk it nowadays… Would you say your and Steve's Joneses are the pick of the bunch for riding like that? You may have already said this, but what difference do you feel between the Fat Fork and the Truss Fork?
Davefj40 - Your'e inspiring me to try my Brooks B.17 saddle offroad. I already have a B.17 mounted on a 27.2 Thudbuster LT post, so I'll try that and test 2 birds with 1 stone. (I've used the B.17 with springs while touring. It was really great. Send me an off-thread message or email if you'd like to know more about that.)
Thanks mbudd...talked to Jeff again today. Talking about parts and getting a quote for a build!
think I am going to go with the fat front, and a single speed on a steel frame. Will let you know what happens.
Mbudd, if yousearch under 'jones' and look up Aquaholic and Enels posts, there's some in-depth stuff about the Jones vs other rigids, the forks etc - I had to dig around to find them when I joined up but lost many hours reading about the bike - really good stuff to read and it all backed up what I felt after a long test-ride locally.
All the ride feel comments aside, I have to say the steel space frame is the best looking Jones ever... Ti's nice, but skinny steel in gloss black is my all-time favourite look for any bike.. the black steel Jones looks like something dreamed up in a collaboration between HR Giger and Alex Moulton.. (I mean that as a compliment!)
Thanks James-O, I've been digging around those, and will keep doing so. Yes, many hours get lost! Or perhaps my soul grows by many hours?
I really liked your comment on the look of the skinny steel in gloss black, and that it's your favourite for any bike. Because I just don't like my Jones being so black! But you're giving me a new appreciation of it, and I'm looking at it through new eyes. Celebrate the blackness. Thank you! (I'm being serious. Call me shallow, but I love the aesthetics of bikes, so the look of my bikes matters a lot to me.)
Anyone got any photos of their black Jones with silver parts on it?
Anyone got any photos of their black Jones with silver parts on it?
Here is mine all blacked, I've ridden this bike everyday since the day I got it, just can't ride anything else now.
Jeff if your listening, thanks for the bike I've always wanted but couldn't find anywhere else!
Thanks guys. Sweet looking bikes, no question! I gotta get a silver post and stem...
Am I the only Jones rider around not running singlespeed? I'm attracted to getting rid of the gears for lightness' sake, but.... if I use a gear my rickety knees can sustain up the 1000' climbs that all these local rides begin with, I'll just spin out on the traverses at the top....
My wheels are ready!! ROCK N ROLL!!! Going to pick them up in an hour or so. If the tubeless thing goes ok I'll be riding this afternoon after a 10 month wait : )
Mbudd, try the SS thing if you can, 32/19 or 32/20 is ok for climbing and you get used to it. The Jones is a great design for SS and the lack of chain bounce is great on a rigid. It suits the slower, flow-er way of riding it and I love how a rigid SS always responds exactly the same to pedal input, for wheelie-drops or getting over logs etc. I'll use mine geared at times though, some places suit gears - I guess NZ may be one of them.
So after a long wait I got my bike built and ridden.. There's going to be a period of adjustment from my other bikes, but it's great. A knee-to-stem clout calmed my initial enthusiasm and it does feel a bit 'sit up and cruise' at first which I knew from the test ride, but had forgotten just how upright it is. On the other hand, it has me looking for the fun lines like no other rigid bike. I was going at a few sections like I was on a slack, wide barred longer travel hardtail. It's a real schitzo bike, I love it. ..Even if it did chuck me off when I leant it right over on a fast, hard-packed chalky corner! 2 lovely tyre scrape marks left on the ground. To be fair, it let go with plenty of manners and I came to a nice slide/stop on the floor. A lot of fun.
Feel like I want to lower the bar a bit but it's already without spacers (90mm x 8 degree rise). May help the cornering weight, but I love the way it hops and jumps. Hopped a log I always seem to clip (only 18" or so), cleared it with ease first time on the Jones.
I guess you get used to the higher bar? Just feels like I'm a bit too far away from the tyre's contact patch when I'm cornering, but that's only after a 2 hour shake-down ride.
James-O - I'm confused. Is this your first Jones bike and ride?
Just going out for a 3 hour hilly ride on my mine. I'll be interested to comment on fit when I return. Man, it took me ages to sort out my fit on my Jones. How tall are you?
I rode a Jones Ti spaceframe last November locally, a day ride just long enought to get to grips with it. It was a 2009 custom so not excatly the same as the current design but still a 'Jones' ride. Since then I've got used to my ti SS with steel fork and H-bars, so going back to a Jones today was like that first ride but with a bit more personal set up. Riding like I knew it did, but able to really see how different the ride is.
I've really been thinking about picking up either a space frame or a diamond frame with a truss fork. Leaning towards the space frame though.
If and when I buy it I'm going to be broke for a while afterwards. Would like to have Jeff build a front wheel but thats definitely not going to be in the cards for a while. Can anyone tell me, what are my options for a front hub? Are his hubs the only game in town?
The Surly hub has a 10mm axle. Not Jones compatible. The Surly hub is meant for forks that take a rear hub like Salsa and Surly. Jones and Fatback take a 9mm axle.
The Surly hub has a 10mm axle. Not Jones compatible. The Surly hub is meant for forks that take a rear hub like Salsa and Surly. Jones and Fatback take a 9mm axle.
I almost bought a used Fat wheel built around a Surly hub from Mike C when I was in the market. The only reason I did not was because the wheel was built for his wife, so the spokes would of have to have been changed out, which killed the deal. But he assured me of compatibility.
I almost bought a used Fat wheel built around a Surly hub from Mike C when I was in the market. The only reason I did not was because the wheel was built for his wife, so the spokes would of have to have been changed out, which killed the deal. But he assured me of compatibility.
Can't keep on everything when you're taking sweeet trips to Alaska.
i have that front wheel and it will not work. it's on my Mariachi with the Enabler fork. i'm 210lbs and that spokes haven't gave me trouble yet.
you need a Paul or Jones hub, other stuff will not work.
So why won't it fit? is it offset to fit the Pug.
Interesting, Mike flat out guaranteed it would fit. Again, the price was right w/ the Larry included. I'm 250 so he offered to change out the spokes for an up charge, then it just wasn't worth it. now I have the Jones built. Thanks for clarifying that. Rich
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<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5629688429/" title="Jones Frame and Truss Fork by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5629688429_cd4cb42ba3_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones Frame and Truss Fork"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5630273756/" title="Jones H Bar by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5022/5630273756_a1862c87e2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones H Bar"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5629689085/" title="Jones Steel Spaceframe by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5065/5629689085_b697287351_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones Steel Spaceframe"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5630273298/" title="P35 Laced to Paul Hubs by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/5630273298_3a8cb1b088_b.jpg" width="680" height="1024" alt="P35 Laced to Paul Hubs"></a<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipoy/5629689663/" title="Jones Steel Spaceframe by Lucky&Pipay, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/5629689663_f7c87e4632_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="Jones Steel Spaceframe"></a>
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Originally Posted by buddhak
) addressed to me, but the frame/fork/headset/fat front combo is probably like this: $1500/$100/$600= $2200. From there you need to add your other bits (like rear wheel, brakes, drivetrain, etc. Hopefully that helps.
