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  1. #1
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    Jeffsy, La Sal Peak, Ripmo or SB130?

    since Geo is nearly identical in the following scenarios...

    Horst link (yt jeffsy, fezzari la sal peak)
    Dw-link (Ibis Ripmo)
    Switch Infinity (Yeti sb130)

    Horst link bikes are direct to consumer and best value.
    Are patented weagle designs worth the extra cost given similar geo?


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  2. #2
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    All good bikes.

    Go ride as many as you can to see what bike is the best fit for you, your riding style and types of trails you'll be riding. Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExhaustPipe View Post
    All good bikes.

    Go ride as many as you can to see what bike is the best fit for you, your riding style and types of trails you'll be riding. Good luck!
    Already did demo of ripmo and sb130.
    Fezzari has 30 day period to return if i donít like it which is nice option...

    Wish YT had something similar as unlikely to be able to demo it. Do i rely on the fact that YT has similar geo numbers to the sb130. Ripmo has roughly 20mm shorter reach numbers at each size.

    Pricing on YT CF Pro so good for what you get it is making me wish i could demo against the others to see if the extra $$$ really worth it.

    Decisions! Decisions!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    Already did demo of ripmo and sb130.
    Fezzari has 30 day period to return if i donít like it which is nice option...

    Wish YT had something similar as unlikely to be able to demo it. Do i rely on the fact that YT has similar geo numbers to the sb130. Ripmo has roughly 20mm shorter reach numbers at each size.

    Pricing on YT CF Pro so good for what you get it is making me wish i could demo against the others to see if the extra $$$ really worth it.

    Decisions! Decisions!

    The price on the CF Pro is awesome!

  5. #5
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    Just demoíed a Ripmo today. Iím coming from a Pivot Mach 429, and am a big fan of DW-link. Was really impressed with the Ripmo; rear suspension is amazing. Pedals incredibly well, but much more supple than my Pivot on small bumps. traction on climbs was incredible. The steep seat angle definitely makes steep technical climbs MUCH easier to clean. The downside of the new geometry (steep seat angles) is that cockpit can feel cramped when youíre seated. My demo has a 50mm stem, but iíd probably end up running a 60 or even 70mm. With the GX build and an upgrade to carbon wheels, itís only a couple hundred bucks more than the Jeffsy top end build, and probably weighs within a half pound (My demo is an XT build and alloy wheels, weighs 30.2 lbs with pedals).

  6. #6
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    I've not owned or ridden a full suspension bike in close to ten years( Turner Sultan Banshee Prime) love hardtails. Had a Banshee Paradox and now on a Trek Stache 7 that I just absolutely love. But I gotta say this Ripmo is hot, first fully to truly grab my attention in years. I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

  7. #7
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    I just got my La Sal Peak 2 days ago. Rode it for the first time today and I'm really happy with it. I really like the shorter top tube with the steeper seat tube. I'm 6'3" and the 650mm plus top tubes of most XL bikes make me lean forward to the point it starts to bother my lower back on long rides. The 622mm top tube on my XL La Sal is a welcome change. The more upright position and being over the cranks is something else for climbing, even with a 40mm stem. Put the seat down for the descents and let it rip. For me the seated position is for climbing and flat ground cruising which it does both well and comfortably. Once the seat is down or you're standing the STA doesn't matter. Being farther forward on the bike helps on climbs too as there is more weight on the front tire. It stays planted and tracks really well on uphill switchback's.

    For a bigger bike with 29's it is pretty agile. Easy to change directions and lines. Feels poppy and playful for a longer travel 29er. The suspension probably needs some time to break in. I can feel the progressiveness in the rear. It has good midstroke support and doesn't wallow in it's travel. It is supple on the climbs and soaks up rocks and roots, but doesn't bob even fully open. On the descents it is supple and supportive.

    Overall I think it is awesome so far. I can't wait to get more time on it.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzman View Post
    Just demoíed a Ripmo today. Iím coming from a Pivot Mach 429, and am a big fan of DW-link. Was really impressed with the Ripmo; rear suspension is amazing. Pedals incredibly well, but much more supple than my Pivot on small bumps. traction on climbs was incredible. The steep seat angle definitely makes steep technical climbs MUCH easier to clean. The downside of the new geometry (steep seat angles) is that cockpit can feel cramped when youíre seated. My demo has a 50mm stem, but iíd probably end up running a 60 or even 70mm. With the GX build and an upgrade to carbon wheels, itís only a couple hundred bucks more than the Jeffsy top end build, and probably weighs within a half pound (My demo is an XT build and alloy wheels, weighs 30.2 lbs with pedals).
    What size did you demo?
    In ripmo may be worth moving up a size which would put it on par with competition...
    Reach numbers on large ripmo compare to medium sb130...

  9. #9
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    That La Sal Peak got really favorable reviews in the new 2019 Bike Mag Bible of Bikes test. I'm a hardtail guy, but this bike got my attention. Worth a look...
    "Caught my first tube this morning....sir!"

  10. #10
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    Can't go wrong with a Horst link I reckon

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05stroker View Post
    I just got my La Sal Peak 2 days ago. Rode it for the first time today and I'm really happy with it. I really like the shorter top tube with the steeper seat tube. I'm 6'3" and the 650mm plus top tubes of most XL bikes make me lean forward to the point it starts to bother my lower back on long rides. The 622mm top tube on my XL La Sal is a welcome change. The more upright position and being over the cranks is something else for climbing, even with a 40mm stem. Put the seat down for the descents and let it rip. For me the seated position is for climbing and flat ground cruising which it does both well and comfortably. Once the seat is down or you're standing the STA doesn't matter. Being farther forward on the bike helps on climbs too as there is more weight on the front tire. It stays planted and tracks really well on uphill switchback's.

    For a bigger bike with 29's it is pretty agile. Easy to change directions and lines. Feels poppy and playful for a longer travel 29er. The suspension probably needs some time to break in. I can feel the progressiveness in the rear. It has good midstroke support and doesn't wallow in it's travel. It is supple on the climbs and soaks up rocks and roots, but doesn't bob even fully open. On the descents it is supple and supportive.

    Overall I think it is awesome so far. I can't wait to get more time on it.

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    Did you get yours with the super delux or x2?

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmo View Post
    Did you get yours with the super delux or x2?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I got the Elite build with the super delux.

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  13. #13
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    Fwiw I have a Jeffsy and while it's a great bike for the price, dealing with YT for any issues has been terrible. I wouldn't buy from them again.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    Fwiw I have a Jeffsy and while it's a great bike for the price, dealing with YT for any issues has been terrible. I wouldn't buy from them again.
    Interesting. Always important part of equation. What kind of issues?

  15. #15
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    Yeti SB130 apparently climbs like a goat ^^

    ...and descends like a demon =)

    That combo is enough to make me wish I had and extra kidney ;-P

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    From minor to most significant.

    Shipped w/ wrong length stem, wouldn't correct. Not a huge deal for me, just worth noting if you're particular about stem length.

    Guide brakes needed warranty, not their fault, but when YT re-bled ("professionally re-bled" in their words) w/ the replacement levers they did a horrible job. Front kinda worked but needed help, back was unusable (basically no fluid in there). I passed on having them re-bleed (which to their credit they offered to do) since shipping was 5 biz days both ways and I didn't trust them.

    Turbine dropper had issues, RF told me to talk with YT, who told me to talk with RF. I didn't have the patient to deal with that nonsense so I just have to pump it up every week in cold weather until a buy a new one.

    Now the kicker. Picked up a stick in my RD, partially jammed but nothing that isn't pretty common in woods. Hanger and mech appeared totally fine, but shifting was a little funny, so I went to replace the hanger just to eliminate a variable and noticed the hanger had rotated in the frame because the carbon had cracked on the bottom of the stay where the hanger presses against the frame. So basically, the two cheap parts that were supposed to fail when this stuff happens were both stronger than the frame. Filed a claim, YT had me send about a dozen pictures before claiming it was due to the improper derailleur adjustment and the chain had jumped off the bottom cog, causing the damage. Crash replacement part was $500+ and 8 week wait. I pushed back a bit since there's no way the chain could get to that part of the frame. They admitted to thinking that they had been looking at the top of the frame and would take it up with headquarters in Germany. That was many weeks ago, I'm pretty sure I'm SOL.

    I know some folks have gotten great luck with replacement parts, one guy cracked his downtube on a rock strike and they goodwilled it, but that hasn't been my, and other folks', experience. It's a total crapshoot. They guys there are nice enough, but it doesn't feel like a terribly well run operation and their hands seem to be tied due to HQ. They can't make the stuff as fast as they sell it which is certainly part of the reason they don't seem to care much about devoting resources to supporting warranty issues.

  17. #17
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    Buy the best bike you can afford without giving up a kidney. Can you afford an Ibis or a Yeti? Do you think they are worth it?

    All of the bikes you listed are going to ride great, the Bible didnít seem to think more money equals better bike...

    The Fezzari La Sal has had great reviews, has a warranty second to none, has a solid presence in the states, and itís one if the most budget friendly.

    Iím building a Signal Peak as a budget 29er trail bike. If it rides as well as the reviews suggest, I might just get me a La Sal frame-set.

    YT has it going on in many ways, but their CS is not so great and that could matter if you break your bike.

    I ride an aluminum framed GG Smash, I like that itís homegrown and that the guys building the bikes are riders like me, but itís also not an expensive bike (2k for an FS frameset). My wife rides a full carbon Pivot, her bike costs twice as much as mine. Iíd never spend that kind of money on myself, Iím just to hard on gear and trade up too often.

    So thereís a question for ya: how long will you keep it and do you break shite?
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    Now the kicker. Picked up a stick in my RD, partially jammed but nothing that isn't pretty common in woods. Hanger and mech appeared totally fine, but shifting was a little funny, so I went to replace the hanger just to eliminate a variable and noticed the hanger had rotated in the frame because the carbon had cracked on the bottom of the stay where the hanger presses against the frame. So basically, the two cheap parts that were supposed to fail when this stuff happens were both stronger than the frame. Filed a claim, YT had me send about a dozen pictures before claiming it was due to the improper derailleur adjustment and the chain had jumped off the bottom cog, causing the damage. Crash replacement part was $500+ and 8 week wait. I pushed back a bit since there's no way the chain could get to that part of the frame. They admitted to thinking that they had been looking at the top of the frame and would take it up with headquarters in Germany. That was many weeks ago, I'm pretty sure I'm SOL.
    That sucks - I hope it gets resolved in a reasonably acceptable fashion for you. I bent a derailleur hanger on my Hightower from a random stick jamming into the RD mech as well. When I got home and went to straighten it I was somewhat shocked at how hard it was to bend the hanger with a hanger alignment tool. Back in the day hangers were stupid soft - it seemed like they bent on a windy day. Now, they have swung the total opposite direction. I'm surprised (and thankful!) that the hanger bent before the frame got damaged....

  19. #19
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    to each his, own but after riding bikes pretty much my whole life i dont want to ride any shite bikes which is hard to do these days. out of those bikes i like the yeti then ibis, then who cares. yt sounds like a nightmare. good luck
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    From minor to most significant.

    Shipped w/ wrong length stem, wouldn't correct. Not a huge deal for me, just worth noting if you're particular about stem length.

    Guide brakes needed warranty, not their fault, but when YT re-bled ("professionally re-bled" in their words) w/ the replacement levers they did a horrible job. Front kinda worked but needed help, back was unusable (basically no fluid in there). I passed on having them re-bleed (which to their credit they offered to do) since shipping was 5 biz days both ways and I didn't trust them.

    Turbine dropper had issues, RF told me to talk with YT, who told me to talk with RF. I didn't have the patient to deal with that nonsense so I just have to pump it up every week in cold weather until a buy a new one.

    Now the kicker. Picked up a stick in my RD, partially jammed but nothing that isn't pretty common in woods. Hanger and mech appeared totally fine, but shifting was a little funny, so I went to replace the hanger just to eliminate a variable and noticed the hanger had rotated in the frame because the carbon had cracked on the bottom of the stay where the hanger presses against the frame. So basically, the two cheap parts that were supposed to fail when this stuff happens were both stronger than the frame. Filed a claim, YT had me send about a dozen pictures before claiming it was due to the improper derailleur adjustment and the chain had jumped off the bottom cog, causing the damage. Crash replacement part was $500+ and 8 week wait. I pushed back a bit since there's no way the chain could get to that part of the frame. They admitted to thinking that they had been looking at the top of the frame and would take it up with headquarters in Germany. That was many weeks ago, I'm pretty sure I'm SOL.

    I know some folks have gotten great luck with replacement parts, one guy cracked his downtube on a rock strike and they goodwilled it, but that hasn't been my, and other folks', experience. It's a total crapshoot. They guys there are nice enough, but it doesn't feel like a terribly well run operation and their hands seem to be tied due to HQ. They can't make the stuff as fast as they sell it which is certainly part of the reason they don't seem to care much about devoting resources to supporting warranty issues.
    Ugh!

    That is one of the main reasons I am staying away from direct to consumer bikes. Any money saved is quickly eaten up with time and frustration. Grateful to have some kick ass bike shops near me.

    Good luck brother!!

  21. #21
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    Since you're not against Horst or buyer direct...why not Canyon Neuron?

  22. #22
    Jim Dunks
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    I have about 3 weeks on the La Sal Peak. You cannot go wrong with this bike. The Bible of Bike Tests nailed the decryption in my opinion. I still have a perma grin when I ride it. I am using the Lyrik and Super Deluxe. I have a friend on the Ripmo and he loves it. I don't think you would go wrong with either of these two bikes.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    since Geo is nearly identical in the following scenarios...

    Horst link (yt jeffsy, fezzari la sal peak)
    Dw-link (Ibis Ripmo)
    Switch Infinity (Yeti sb130)

    Horst link bikes are direct to consumer and best value.
    Are patented weagle designs worth the extra cost given similar geo?
    I would say whether they are worth it or not depends on your type of riding. In my area we have a lot of chunk, but not much elevation, so you are quickly transitioning from down to up and having to use a climb switch isn't really an option. Because of the chunk though, you still need a supple enough suspension to deal with it when not climbing. Weagle suspensions seem the best at this to me. Yeti SI would be my next choice on this list. Horst link means you either deal with more inefficiency on our trails or use the shock to provide pedaling support.

    Now, if you live in an area where you are primarily doing sustained climbs up to sustained downhills, I can see Horst link being a good option. It is a very active suspension and can be great on the downs.

    So, to answer your question, a Weagle suspension is worth it to me in my area. Others with different terrain may have a different opinion.

  24. #24
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    I do love me a Weagle suspended bike, BUT, it's not my first choice for the kind of riding I do; read as steep climbs, tech, rocky, ledges.

    I rode my wife's Pivot last night and it was such a smooth ride compared to my Smash, but it's not quite as supportive, more "spongy" in rocky conditions so I end up with more pedal strikes and it felt little less responsive when I had to get active and mash through junk; but it sure rode nice

    I've been riding firmer platforms lately, and though I sometimes complain about the suspension not being soft enough on little hits, the upside is I have no complaints on big hits and when riding through tech.

    So maybe choosing a suspension type/bike based on where you ride is the best choice.

    In another thread there was a group epiphany that regional bike mfgs like (Fezzari, GG, Knolly, Transition, Kona, Devinci) tend to design their bikes for uses local to them; I know, this seems like a no brainer, but ...

    So if you ride in the West where tech and big climbs are the norm, pick a bike from an mfg that is local to that region. So to the OP, where do live and what kind of riding do like?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrallen View Post
    I would say whether they are worth it or not depends on your type of riding. In my area we have a lot of chunk, but not much elevation, so you are quickly transitioning from down to up and having to use a climb switch isn't really an option. Because of the chunk though, you still need a supple enough suspension to deal with it when not climbing. Weagle suspensions seem the best at this to me. Yeti SI would be my next choice on this list. Horst link means you either deal with more inefficiency on our trails or use the shock to provide pedaling support.

    Now, if you live in an area where you are primarily doing sustained climbs up to sustained downhills, I can see Horst link being a good option. It is a very active suspension and can be great on the downs.

    So, to answer your question, a Weagle suspension is worth it to me in my area. Others with different terrain may have a different opinion.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    From minor to most significant.

    It's a total crapshoot. They guys there are nice enough, but it doesn't feel like a terribly well run operation and their hands seem to be tied due to HQ. They can't make the stuff as fast as they sell it which is certainly part of the reason they don't seem to care much about devoting resources to supporting warranty issues.
    They're also still paying for Gwin's salary and bonuses...they could have hired at least 10 customer service reps instead, but they won't have sold as many bikes.

  26. #26
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    Can't speak to Fezarri as a company but the La Sal Peak is a home run imo. Especially considering builds to price point and the fact that they're based stateside. Trying to convince my buddy to buy the comp. Is there a better deal on a progressive/capable 29'r in all of mountain biking right now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I do love me a Weagle suspended bike, BUT, it's not my first choice for the kind of riding I do; read as steep climbs, tech, rocky, ledges.

    I rode my wife's Pivot last night and it was such a smooth ride compared to my Smash, but it's not quite as supportive, more "spongy" in rocky conditions so I end up with more pedal strikes and it felt little less responsive when I had to get active and mash through junk; but it sure rode nice

    I've been riding firmer platforms lately, and though I sometimes complain about the suspension not being soft enough on little hits, the upside is I have no complaints on big hits and when riding through tech.

    So maybe choosing a suspension type/bike based on where you ride is the best choice.

    In another thread there was a group epiphany that regional bike mfgs like (Fezzari, GG, Knolly, Transition, Kona, Devinci) tend to design their bikes for uses local to them; I know, this seems like a no brainer, but ...

    So if you ride in the West where tech and big climbs are the norm, pick a bike from an mfg that is local to that region. So to the OP, where do live and what kind of riding do like?
    You hit on another point - each manufacturer tunes the suspension differently and even some models within a manufacturers line can be different. My Pivot Mach6 is surprisingly one of my best climbers on the type of terrain you describe. Does just fine on steep, rocky and ledgy. However, I did have to dial in some LSC to get it where I wanted. Thankfully, it didn't affect any of the downhill feeling though.

    Ibis has tuned their DW link differently and they feel relatively hardtail-like. It's a bit eerie how efficient their rear end is while still being good in the chunk. You can ride an Ibis wide open and never think about it.

    My favorite Weagle suspension though is DELTA. I don't think the Calling is quite as efficient, but it's super supportive and ramps nicely on big hits without bottoming harshly. The couple of rides I've had the Offering seemed to have a firmer tune and it was easily as efficient as my old Yeti 5.5 which I found hard to believe. However, it's possible the Offering was set up a bit firm in the rear shock.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    What size did you demo?
    I demo'ed a Medium. Compared to my Medium 429Trail, reach increased by 1.5" (17.6" vs 16.1"). TT is supposedly the same (23.8") but it's not according to tape measure. It's shorter on the Ripmo. On second demo ride I lowered the handlebars (there was a huge stack of spacers underneath the stem) and that helped a lot.

  29. #29
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    This is from tcwashers. It's on the "Fezzari?" Thread in the all mountain section.

    "The La Sal Peak has a pretty aggressive leverage ratio (23.7% change, 2.91 at sag and 2.22 at bottom out). It has a little bit of a regressive loop the last few mm of travel to help with the shock blowback on rebound. This leverage ratio make the bike really supple off the top and then give really good support thought the mid-stroke and bottom out. This also allowed us to tune the anti squat at just above 100% in all gears with a pretty flat curve to help the pedaling."

    I haven't ridden the other bikes you've listed, but the La Sal Peak isn't like the other Horst Link bikes that I've ridden. I've ridden it wide open only so far, haven't felt the need to switch to even the middle position. First day on it I went up a 3 mile climb with 1,100 ft elevation gain. I never felt it bob under power. It was a slow seated grind though. The pedaling platform is nice and firm yet allows the suspension to move over roots and rocks. Traction is great as well. Second ride was more cross country up and down with twisting corners. The kind where you don't want to be switching the lever constantly. There's also technical sections and fast flowing sections. No issues here either, even standing and smashing up these shorter hills was good. The power goes to the ground and the rear suspension has really good support. It doesn't sag way into it's travel and wallow around.

    This bike is not the cliche, "feels like it has more travel." Not the complete opposite either, but it is more on the progressive side.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Buy the best bike you can afford without giving up a kidney. Can you afford an Ibis or a Yeti? Do you think they are worth it?

    All of the bikes you listed are going to ride great, the Bible didnít seem to think more money equals better bike...

    The Fezzari La Sal has had great reviews, has a warranty second to none, has a solid presence in the states, and itís one if the most budget friendly.

    Iím building a Signal Peak as a budget 29er trail bike. If it rides as well as the reviews suggest, I might just get me a La Sal frame-set.

    YT has it going on in many ways, but their CS is not so great and that could matter if you break your bike.

    I ride an aluminum framed GG Smash, I like that itís homegrown and that the guys building the bikes are riders like me, but itís also not an expensive bike (2k for an FS frameset). My wife rides a full carbon Pivot, her bike costs twice as much as mine. Iíd never spend that kind of money on myself, Iím just to hard on gear and trade up too often.

    So thereís a question for ya: how long will you keep it and do you break shite?
    i'm lightweight rider so breaking stuff is usually not an issue...

    GG Smash has popped up on my radar as well...it may be heavier than carbon but i do like the the fact it is manufactured here...i grew up on practically everything being made here besides the shimano stuff i would typically run for drivetrain...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Since you're not against Horst or buyer direct...why not Canyon Neuron?
    looking to stick with geo closer to ones i mentioned...really like the steep seat tube longer reach stuff that i've demo'd lately...

  32. #32
    dmo
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05stroker View Post
    This is from tcwashers. It's on the "Fezzari?" Thread in the all mountain section.

    "The La Sal Peak has a pretty aggressive leverage ratio (23.7% change, 2.91 at sag and 2.22 at bottom out). It has a little bit of a regressive loop the last few mm of travel to help with the shock blowback on rebound. This leverage ratio make the bike really supple off the top and then give really good support thought the mid-stroke and bottom out. This also allowed us to tune the anti squat at just above 100% in all gears with a pretty flat curve to help the pedaling."

    I haven't ridden the other bikes you've listed, but the La Sal Peak isn't like the other Horst Link bikes that I've ridden. I've ridden it wide open only so far, haven't felt the need to switch to even the middle position. First day on it I went up a 3 mile climb with 1,100 ft elevation gain. I never felt it bob under power. It was a slow seated grind though. The pedaling platform is nice and firm yet allows the suspension to move over roots and rocks. Traction is great as well. Second ride was more cross country up and down with twisting corners. The kind where you don't want to be switching the lever constantly. There's also technical sections and fast flowing sections. No issues here either, even standing and smashing up these shorter hills was good. The power goes to the ground and the rear suspension has really good support. It doesn't sag way into it's travel and wallow around.

    This bike is not the cliche, "feels like it has more travel." Not the complete opposite either, but it is more on the progressive side.

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    How is standing and smashing on flat ground? I have alot around me that you would sprint for a bit on flat ground before hitting the chunk either up or down. Will it pogo if you ride that way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I do love me a Weagle suspended bike, BUT, it's not my first choice for the kind of riding I do; read as steep climbs, tech, rocky, ledges.

    I rode my wife's Pivot last night and it was such a smooth ride compared to my Smash, but it's not quite as supportive, more "spongy" in rocky conditions so I end up with more pedal strikes and it felt little less responsive when I had to get active and mash through junk; but it sure rode nice

    I've been riding firmer platforms lately, and though I sometimes complain about the suspension not being soft enough on little hits, the upside is I have no complaints on big hits and when riding through tech.

    So maybe choosing a suspension type/bike based on where you ride is the best choice.

    In another thread there was a group epiphany that regional bike mfgs like (Fezzari, GG, Knolly, Transition, Kona, Devinci) tend to design their bikes for uses local to them; I know, this seems like a no brainer, but ...

    So if you ride in the West where tech and big climbs are the norm, pick a bike from an mfg that is local to that region. So to the OP, where do live and what kind of riding do like?
    i'm east coast currently...NJ, i do travel to ride but stick to mostly east coast...from NY down to NC... east coast riding by me locally does not have much of that flow stuff...personal preference is really techy singletrack and historically liked to pick my lines to find my way through stuff ..had to develop that style before being able to have the benefit of just being able to smash through everything which all the new bikes seem to be able to do...lol

    my brother just got an evil offering which is alot of fun to ride but i can't have the same bike he has (just a brother thing) so i'm looking for my next rig. I could go the easy route and pull a trigger on a Ripmo but don't want to overlook anything either...

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    i'm lightweight rider so breaking stuff is usually not an issue...

    GG Smash has popped up on my radar as well...it may be heavier than carbon but i do like the the fact it is manufactured here...i grew up on practically everything being made here besides the shimano stuff i would typically run for drivetrain...
    That's what I thought as a fellow lightweight, but then I ended up with a broken carbon frame. I decided that less downtime and being able to ride like a chucklehead was worth extra weight. My replacement is a Knolly Fugitive that's exactly 2lbs heavier. While there's not denying that 2lbs makes it slower, it sure isn't by much and I don't notice it one bit. Other aspects of the bike more than make up for it and I'm just as fast on the climbs.

    My suggestion, pick a weight you think is desirable for your performance needs and then be flexible w/in a few lbs. After a ride or two you won't feel it one bit and unless you're racing, the clock likely won't show it either. A bike that's perfect for you in every other way but is a couple lbs heavier will be the better choice every time.

    I was torn between the Smash and Fugitive, by all accounts I've heard the Smash is a great bike. Personally, I'd pick it over any of the bikes you mentioned initially.

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    If I were in Jersey I'd want a very active sus, and maybe not such an aggressive STį as the terrain is more rolling vs sustained climbs. I'd also want a slightly higher BB. Not sure what falls in that category anymore. Fugitive maybe?
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    So I'd say get a Fugitive over a Smash

    Just kidding, though the Fugitive certainly looks fun. I think demos are the way to go, though I've only demoed one of my last three bikes and the one I demoed was mostly a parking lot ride.

    I tend to play with a bike until I either get the bike or the bike gets me. In the end, nearly every bike out there is really good, getting to the point that picking a bad bike is hard.

    I do wish Knolly would have put the Fugitive on a diet, that frame is a pig at 8# and I don't know where they put all that weight! My Smash is 6# and it's certainly no lightweight XC bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    That's what I thought as a fellow lightweight, but then I ended up with a broken carbon frame. I decided that less downtime and being able to ride like a chucklehead was worth extra weight. My replacement is a Knolly Fugitive that's exactly 2lbs heavier. While there's not denying that 2lbs makes it slower, it sure isn't by much and I don't notice it one bit. Other aspects of the bike more than make up for it and I'm just as fast on the climbs.

    My suggestion, pick a weight you think is desirable for your performance needs and then be flexible w/in a few lbs. After a ride or two you won't feel it one bit and unless you're racing, the clock likely won't show it either. A bike that's perfect for you in every other way but is a couple lbs heavier will be the better choice every time.

    I was torn between the Smash and Fugitive, by all accounts I've heard the Smash is a great bike. Personally, I'd pick it over any of the bikes you mentioned initially.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    That's what I thought as a fellow lightweight, but then I ended up with a broken carbon frame. I decided that less downtime and being able to ride like a chucklehead was worth extra weight. My replacement is a Knolly Fugitive that's exactly 2lbs heavier. While there's not denying that 2lbs makes it slower, it sure isn't by much and I don't notice it one bit. Other aspects of the bike more than make up for it and I'm just as fast on the climbs.

    My suggestion, pick a weight you think is desirable for your performance needs and then be flexible w/in a few lbs. After a ride or two you won't feel it one bit and unless you're racing, the clock likely won't show it either. A bike that's perfect for you in every other way but is a couple lbs heavier will be the better choice every time.

    I was torn between the Smash and Fugitive, by all accounts I've heard the Smash is a great bike. Personally, I'd pick it over any of the bikes you mentioned initially.
    Smash is definitely on the list, have to see if there is a way to demo one locally...

    My brother and I demo'd alot of stuff last year and evil offering was one of the last ones he had done and after that demo he just knew it was the bike for him.

    I tend to be able to adapt to different bikes, so in a weird way choosing one has become tougher as they all feel good in some way to me..I haven't been on anything that I all of a sudden i am...wow..this bike is amazing and i don't want to ride anything else...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I do wish Knolly would have put the Fugitive on a diet, that frame is a pig at 8# and I don't know where they put all that weight! My Smash is 6# and it's certainly no lightweight XC bike.
    It is a solid fellow for sure. I'm sure they'd sell more if it dropped a lb or two. There were enough small differences between the two that all were pluses on the Knolly that I took my own advice and got the heavier bike that was otherwise a better fit for me. I'd have been happy with either though.

    GG has a good demo hook up program where they try to pair you with a local rider who has a bike and is willing to let you try it out. Give them a shout, it'll be worth your time.

    OP - I'm in western VA, so similar terrain to what you have it sounds like, maybe just a bit longer climbs. If you're interested in hearing more thoughts on the Fugitive, let me know, but otherwise I don't want to clog your thread with info about a bike you have no interest in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    It is a solid fellow for sure. I'm sure they'd sell more if it dropped a lb or two. There were enough small differences between the two that all were pluses on the Knolly that I took my own advice and got the heavier bike that was otherwise a better fit for me. I'd have been happy with either though.

    GG has a good demo hook up program where they try to pair you with a local rider who has a bike and is willing to let you try it out. Give them a shout, it'll be worth your time.

    OP - I'm in western VA, so similar terrain to what you have it sounds like, maybe just a bit longer climbs. If you're interested in hearing more thoughts on the Fugitive, let me know, but otherwise I don't want to clog your thread with info about a bike you have no interest in.
    Im open to all advice and thoughts. What was the carbon frame you broke btw?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ExhaustPipe View Post
    Ugh!

    That is one of the main reasons I am staying away from direct to consumer bikes. Any money saved is quickly eaten up with time and frustration. Grateful to have some kick ass bike shops near me.

    Good luck brother!!
    It varies... I had positive results with direct to consumer: Commencal and Morpheus. I have purchase 4 bikes with Commencal USA with excellent customer services. Bent hanger damaged in shipping, overnighted without any questions. Shipping company lost one bike, commencal shipped out another with no hesitation. Also, Morpheus has some of the best customer services too.

    I plan on purchasing a Fezzari Signal Peak this spring, I don't expect any issues with their customer service too... from what I have heard on the forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    i'm east coast currently...NJ, i do travel to ride but stick to mostly east coast...from NY down to NC... east coast riding by me locally does not have much of that flow stuff...personal preference is really techy singletrack and historically liked to pick my lines to find my way through stuff ..had to develop that style before being able to have the benefit of just being able to smash through everything which all the new bikes seem to be able to do...lol

    my brother just got an evil offering which is alot of fun to ride but i can't have the same bike he has (just a brother thing) so i'm looking for my next rig. I could go the easy route and pull a trigger on a Ripmo but don't want to overlook anything either...
    How tall are you? Some of these bikes get a little long for twisty singletrack. I ride East Coast chunk PA-WNC i personally think the Ripmo is a bit too low and DW link tends to sink more in its travel. Making it worse. The Smash,Offering and Fugitive are all on my short list. But im still looking. The Offering with 150mm fork in the high setting would be a fun bike. The Smash will peddle better than the Knolly but you can't beat Knolly traction. I personally prefer coil, but wouldn't run the Smash without one. But those 3 have sub 17" chainstays which are great for doing drops at slow speeds.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc40 View Post
    It varies... I had positive results with direct to consumer: Commencal and Morpheus. I have purchase 4 bikes with Commencal USA with excellent customer services. Bent hanger damaged in shipping, overnighted without any questions. Shipping company lost one bike, commencal shipped out another with no hesitation. Also, Morpheus has some of the best customer services too.

    I plan on purchasing a Fezzari Signal Peak this spring, I don't expect any issues with their customer service too... from what I have heard on the forums.
    Ive bought a Spot Mayhem with out issue. Super cool supportive company. Theyre not all bad

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    Jeffsy, detailed in my long post higher up. Frame cracked when either the derailleur or hanger should of failed first, YT wouldn't warranty. Replacement frame part was an 8 week wait.

    I'd suggest taking a look at a Fugitive. It's very close to the Ripmo in geometry, but will be a much more active suspension design in rough stuff. Pedals great for me, only bobs significantly if I'm hammering out of the saddle with horrible form. Traction is unreal. All I ride is steep roots/rocks and it eats that stuff up.

    Bike reviewed it recently (only review out there atm I think), https://www.bikemag.com/gear/mountai...ugitive-lt-sl/

    Don't worry about the super boost rear end, you can get a $20 adapter and redish a boost wheel, which will end up with super even spoke tension ds/nds. Even spoke tension makes me happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmo View Post
    How is standing and smashing on flat ground? I have alot around me that you would sprint for a bit on flat ground before hitting the chunk either up or down. Will it pogo if you ride that way?

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    Standing and smashing is good. I'm sure the suspension is moving under power, but it does not have a noticable bob or pogo feel. If you're in a higher gear (smaller cog) and start hammering before you're up to speed it will compressor the first couple cranks, but once up to speed it firms up and just accelerates forward. That's with the shock full open. I haven't changed the lever as I haven't felt I needed to.

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    Yup, DW does ride soft for a reason...

    In the GG biked, go with a medium if you normally ride a large, the Smash rides long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    How tall are you? Some of these bikes get a little long for twisty singletrack. I ride East Coast chunk PA-WNC i personally think the Ripmo is a bit too low and DW link tends to sink more in its travel. Making it worse. The Smash,Offering and Fugitive are all on my short list. But im still looking. The Offering with 150mm fork in the high setting would be a fun bike. The Smash will peddle better than the Knolly but you can't beat Knolly traction. I personally prefer coil, but wouldn't run the Smash without one. But those 3 have sub 17" chainstays which are great for doing drops at slow speeds.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    How tall are you? Some of these bikes get a little long for twisty singletrack. I ride East Coast chunk PA-WNC i personally think the Ripmo is a bit too low and DW link tends to sink more in its travel. Making it worse. The Smash,Offering and Fugitive are all on my short list. But im still looking. The Offering with 150mm fork in the high setting would be a fun bike. The Smash will peddle better than the Knolly but you can't beat Knolly traction. I personally prefer coil, but wouldn't run the Smash without one. But those 3 have sub 17" chainstays which are great for doing drops at slow speeds.
    Fugitive sits pretty high in it's travel so the bb doesn't ride as low as it looks on paper. I've found it to handle the tight twisty stuff with no problems at all despite the length. It's something like 30mm longer WB than my Jeffsy and with a slacker HT but I can clear switchbacks that bothered me on the Jeffsy and the front end wanders less on the climbs.

    If you find your way to the kinematics page for the Fugitive on linkage design, ignore the anti-squat numbers. They're simply not representative of how the bike actually pedals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    Fugitive sits pretty high in it's travel so the bb doesn't ride as low as it looks on paper. I've found it to handle the tight twisty stuff with no problems at all despite the length. It's something like 30mm longer WB than my Jeffsy and with a slacker HT but I can clear switchbacks that bothered me on the Jeffsy and the front end wanders less on the climbs.

    If you find your way to the kinematics page for the Fugitive on linkage design, ignore the anti-squat numbers. They're simply not representative of how the bike actually pedals.
    Ive ridden a few Knolly bikes, yes you can get away with a lower BB with them vs most bikes. A short chainstay bike will turn tighter so Noel knew what he was doing.

    Could you compare it with the Warden? Great bike but a little to soft trying to pedal out the hole from one turn to the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yup, DW does ride soft for a reason...

    In the GG biked, go with a medium if you normally ride a large, the Smash rides long.
    I normally ride medium...so maybe small for GG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Ive ridden a few Knolly bikes, yes you can get away with a lower BB with them vs most bikes. A short chainstay bike will turn tighter so Noel knew what he was doing.

    Could you compare it with the Warden? Great bike but a little to soft trying to pedal out the hole from one turn to the other.
    I'm afraid I haven't ridden a Warden, but Knolly says it pedals better. My comparisons are limited. Snappier than a Jeffsy or Stumpjumper, less so than an Ibis Ripley (duh). I wouldn't describe it as sluggish or slow by any means, but it's certainly not the best for sprinting out of corners. I can carry more speed into and through corners though, so having to accelerate hard out is less important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    I normally ride medium...so maybe small for GG.
    GG and Evil both size Small is like a medium elsewhere. This is the trend though. I just bought a medium Riot frame to see if I can adjust to it since i ride a small. The Riot is a great East Coast bike (nothing i have ridden rides like it. Efficient and active). But flexy if you're heavy. Its a 9lbs frame and at the moment, maybe forever can only get one used.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Ive ridden a few Knolly bikes, yes you can get away with a lower BB with them vs most bikes. A short chainstay bike will turn tighter so Noel knew what he was doing.

    Could you compare it with the Warden? Great bike but a little to soft trying to pedal out the hole from one turn to the other.
    I rode my Warden over 5000km, and was one of the first to get a Fugitive late last summer. The Fugitive pedals much better than a Warden and is just as capable going down until the hits get big. On big hits the Warden's extra 15mm of travel git it a slight edge, but I'm descending faster and with more confidence on the Fugitive. The Fugitive has the Fox X2, 160mm Grip 2 36, and the Warden had the CCDBA with CS, and a 2016 Fox 36 RC2 that was great. The Fugitive pops easier IME. Knolly really worked some magic with the Fugitive's suspension because it pedals very well, has incredible traction, and feels like more than 135 going down.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    I've personally ridden a couple of those...and have you thought about an Alchemy Arktos 29? Certainly should be in the conversation with those.

    Not as "poppy" as a DW bike....but better pedaling platform than all those other than the SB130...and the arktos is a much more fun bike than the SB130, which seems to only like to go straight and is raked out.

    Just my two cents, having ridden some of the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man View Post
    I've personally ridden a couple of those...and have you thought about an Alchemy Arktos 29? Certainly should be in the conversation with those.

    Not as "poppy" as a DW bike....but better pedaling platform than all those other than the SB130...and the arktos is a much more fun bike than the SB130, which seems to only like to go straight and is raked out.

    Just my two cents, having ridden some of the above.
    Thanks for the suggestion. Keep the comments coming. Definitely some useful things brought up in this thread for me and widening my options.




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    Im torn between a La Sal or Knolly fugitive. I would just a frame as i have all the parts. I ride in new england so short rocky rooty ups and downs. Id be looking at a small frame as well. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

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    The Knolly looks pretty sweet if you donít mind the weight and youíre cool with building up a super boost wheel. If youíre swinging that way, you might also look at the Transition Smuggler, 2k aluminum3k Carbon.

    The La Sal gets great reviews, good geo, good price, 30 day love it or return it warranty, and lifetime frame warranty. I just ordered a Signal Peak, if I like the way it rides, the La Sal may be on my list.

    Where in the East do you ride? I lived twenty years in E TN, similar trails as New England, rode 29er SS out there, now that Iím riding fs in 27.5 and 29, Iím not sure Iíd stay with 29.

    Nice thing about Fezzari is all their bikes can be set up for up to 27.5 x2.8 and 29 x 2.6, so a two wheelset option is kinda cool.

    What hooked me is warranty and 30 day trial, really canít go wrong if youíre doing a frame up build anyhow. Comes with a headset too.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Knolly looks pretty sweet if you donít mind the weight and youíre cool with building up a super boost wheel. If youíre swinging that way, you might also look at the Transition Smuggler, 2k aluminum3k Carbon.

    The La Sal gets great reviews, good geo, good price, 30 day live or return it warranty, and lifetime frame warranty. I just ordered a Signal Peak, if I like the way it rides, the La Sal may be on my list.

    Where in the East do you ride? I lived twenty years in E TN, similar trails as New England, rode 29er SS out there, now that Iím riding fs in 27.5 and 29, Iím not sure Iíd stay with 29.

    Nice thing about Fezzari is all their bikes can be set up fot up to 27.5 x2.8 and 29 x 2.6.
    I live in mass. I already have a Lyrik 160 and a set of wheels. I was going to use it for a different build but then changed my mind. I dont mind the extra weight. I have another more xc type of bike i can ride. I like the short wb on the la sal 1169mm and fugitive 1160mm

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    You don't have to build a super boost wheel, you can use a $20 adapter and re-dish, get even spoke tension to boot. The Fugitive can take up to 27.5x3.2 and 29.2.6 (probably bigger if you want).

    You know my opinion otherwise.

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    Itís not just a little extra weight, the Fugitive is a 9# frame, whereas the La Sal is 6#; most carbon frames in this category are 6-7#. The Fugitive frame weighs as much as a DH frame, kinda crazy really. My Smash frame is aluminum and it weighs 6#. If youíre building a 30# bike, the Fugitive frame adds 10%, that ainít small potatoes. At that rate you could get a steel frame thatís lighter

    That said, probably every bike mentioned on this thread is drool worthy, such a great time to be a biker!

    Iíd like to do some demos, dead if winter, dumping rain, dreaming if Moab...

    Quote Originally Posted by dmo View Post
    I live in mass. I already have a Lyrik 160 and a set of wheels. I was going to use it for a different build but then changed my mind. I dont mind the extra weight. I have another more xc type of bike i can ride. I like the short wb on the la sal 1169mm and fugitive 1160mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Itís not just a little extra weight, the Fugitive is a 9# frame, whereas the La Sal is 6#; most carbon frames in this category are 6-7#. The Fugitive frame weighs as much as a DH frame, kinda crazy really. My Smash frame is aluminum and it weighs 6#. If youíre building a 30# bike, the Fugitive frame adds 10%, that ainít small potatoes. At that rate you could get a steel frame thatís lighter

    That said, probably every bike mentioned on this thread is drool worthy, such a great time to be a biker!

    Iíd like to do some demos, dead if winter, dumping rain, dreaming if Moab...
    You're skewing some numbers here. Don't get me wrong, the Fugitive is heavy but the above isn't accurate.

    The Fugitive with all hardware and RS Super Deluxe RT3 is 8.75 in a Large and 8.25 in small. Heavy, but not 9lbs. The Smuggler is even heavier from what I've heard.

    The Smash in medium is 6.75 in Medium w/o shock and and 7.5 with. This is according to GG themselves when I was cross shopping the two. According to their site, it's 7.3 in small w/ shock. RS deluxe RT used for both weights.

    The real difference between the two is about a pound. Two pounds (maybe slightly more, we don't know the Fez weight for sure) between the Fezzari and the Fugitive.

    Using percentage difference when comparing bike weights misrepresents the performance impact. If the rider/bike system is #180 lbs (150 rider, 30 bike), a 2lb weight difference is just over 1%. It just doesn't matter much when it's all frame weight.

    Anyway, my point is that there are far more important factors than a couple pounds of frame weight. Many of these have already been mentioned. Fit, suspension characteristics, warranty, durability, etc.

    These are all great bikes. I was a click away from a Smash, opted for the Fugitive mostly for fit reasons. There's probably not a bad choice, but the best choice will likely come down to something other than weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiotae View Post
    You're skewing some numbers here. Don't get me wrong, the Fugitive is heavy but the above isn't accurate.

    The Fugitive with all hardware and RS Super Deluxe RT3 is 8.75 in a Large and 8.25 in small. Heavy, but not 9lbs. The Smuggler is even heavier from what I've heard.

    The Smash in medium is 6.75 in Medium w/o shock and and 7.5 with. This is according to GG themselves when I was cross shopping the two. According to their site, it's 7.3 in small w/ shock. RS deluxe RT used for both weights.

    The real difference between the two is about a pound. Two pounds (maybe slightly more, we don't know the Fez weight for sure) between the Fezzari and the Fugitive.

    Using percentage difference when comparing bike weights misrepresents the performance impact. If the rider/bike system is #180 lbs (150 rider, 30 bike), a 2lb weight difference is just over 1%. It just doesn't matter much when it's all frame weight.

    Anyway, my point is that there are far more important factors than a couple pounds of frame weight. Many of these have already been mentioned. Fit, suspension characteristics, warranty, durability, etc.

    These are all great bikes. I was a click away from a Smash, opted for the Fugitive mostly for fit reasons. There's probably not a bad choice, but the best choice will likely come down to something other than weight.
    I agree with all this. Weight aside though, i wonder how they ride through chunk, down steep root covered rock slabs, off of drops, in the air, weight changes, manualling etc?

    Without spending time on either any guesses as to which might be better? I know there are lots of good bikes out there and i could flip a coin and be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmo View Post
    I agree with all this. Weight aside though, i wonder how they ride through chunk, down steep root covered rock slabs, off of drops, in the air, weight changes, manualling etc?

    Without spending time on either any guesses as to which might be better? I know there are lots of good bikes out there and i could flip a coin and be happy.

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    If you're looking at a size small the 5mm shorter chainstay on the Knolly can be felt for us short guys in a positive way. And no one with a brain will say a Knolly is harsh in rough terrain.

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    I'd look between the Smash and Fugitive (LT?) if I was you. I think the La Sal is geared more toward big mountain stuff and wouldn't be as enjoyable for what you describe. My concerns:

    The spec sheet reads like they picked the most common critiques of bikes on PB and turned it up to 11 (for better or worse). Yeti does 77 SA? We do 78! You want bottle cage mounts? We have 3! A lifetime warranty is great, but getting a class leading frame weight at that price point means something had to give, it's not magic. A broken frame still sucks and means no riding for a while, even if they replace it for free. We just don't know how these hold up under hard use. Hopefully they rock, competition is good for consumers, but I wouldn't want to be the one to test it.

    I'd imagine the Smash and Fugitive have somewhat similar handling feel but very different suspension feel. Can't comment on jumps/air but I've found the Fugitive fantastic in the rough of any sort. I'm on the 120mm version and it's better than my Jeffsy was in the rough. On bigger hits it ramps up fine and performs equally there despite less travel. Pedals way better. Handles tight stuff with no issues and I'm on a Large.

    From the folks I spoke with, the Smash is a firmer ride for sure, even in plush mode. Needs to be ridden harder/faster to really come into it's own. If you go that route, you may want to consider a coil if max traction and chunky stuff is your game. I can't manual for crap, but shorter stays will always help.

    Smash has a higher bb as well, but I haven't had trouble with strikes on my Fugitive in rocky sections.

    If you ride hard all the time and don't mind a firmer ride, I'd go with the Smash. If you want a smoother ride when you're not going all out but will still keep up when you are, the Fugitive will likely be better. This of course assumes all you can get a good fit on both. I spoke with a lot of people before buying and this was the gist that I got.

    It seems like there are quite a few of us who have cross shopped them, but no one who's ridden both so it's a lot of guesswork/opinion.

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    Yes, the Smash is good bike, but it rides firm, not supple, not comfortable. I like the Smash for what it does well, stable at speed, competent climber, excellent for Moab styled riding, but it ainít light and poppy by a long stretch.

    If I still lived in TN, Iíd pick a more compact bike that was light and flickable. Unlike out west, the eastern lines are short, you want a bike you can throw around fast and easy cuz you donít have the time to wait for a bike to respond.

    Out east Iíd want the shortest stays possible, 420mm if I could get them... though in a 29er thatíll be tough to find unless the brothers start selling bikes again. The limiting factor in shortening chainstays is wheel diameter and travel.

    And I know Iím gonna get shite for saying it, but I donít think a long travel 29er is a good choice for east coast riding. 29Ē wheels might be fine in a short travel or SS bike, but a long travel bike sits higher, suggests a more aggressive use, and in tight terrain Iíd pick a 27.5 without a second thought.

    My current quiver is a Smash, 140/160, running 27.5 x 2.8, itís my big bike for tech and going fast. Iím building a Signal Peak 120/140, running 29 x 2.6 for long days and for non tech.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yes, the Smash is good bike, but it rides firm, not supple, not comfortable. I like the Smash for what it does well, stable at speed, competent climber, excellent for Moab styled riding, but it ainít light and poppy by a long stretch.

    If I still lived in TN, Iíd pick a more compact bike that was light and flickable. Unlike out west, the eastern lines are short, you want a bike you can throw around fast and easy cuz you donít have the time to wait for a bike to respond.

    Out east Iíd want the shortest stays possible, 420mm if I could get them... though in a 29er thatíll be tough to find unless the brothers start selling bikes again. The limiting factor in shortening chainstays is wheel diameter and travel.

    And I know Iím gonna get shite for saying it, but I donít think a long travel 29er is a good choice for east coast riding. 29Ē wheels might be fine in a short travel or SS bike, but a long travel bike sits higher, suggests a more aggressive use, and in tight terrain Iíd pick a 27.5 without a second thought.

    My current quiver is a Smash, 140/160, running 27.5 x 2.8, itís my big bike for tech and going fast. Iím building a Signal Peak 120/140, running 29 x 2.6 for long days and for non tech.
    I hear ya.

    My everyday bike is a Spot Mayhem 130/140. I havea Evil Insurgent with 27.5x2.6 tires thats fun for more tech. Plenty playful. I just have a box full of parts and thought a LT29 would be different. I think knolly is probably best for what i ride

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    Price aside, which one do you like better and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by gryeti View Post
    I have about 3 weeks on the La Sal Peak. You cannot go wrong with this bike. The Bible of Bike Tests nailed the decryption in my opinion. I still have a perma grin when I ride it. I am using the Lyrik and Super Deluxe. I have a friend on the Ripmo and he loves it. I don't think you would go wrong with either of these two bikes.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Itís not just a little extra weight, the Fugitive is a 9# frame, whereas the La Sal is 6#; most carbon frames in this category are 6-7#. The Fugitive frame weighs as much as a DH frame, kinda crazy really. My Smash frame is aluminum and it weighs 6#. If youíre building a 30# bike, the Fugitive frame adds 10%, that ainít small potatoes. At that rate you could get a steel frame thatís lighter

    That said, probably every bike mentioned on this thread is drool worthy, such a great time to be a biker!

    Iíd like to do some demos, dead if winter, dumping rain, dreaming if Moab...
    I wonder at what point does the extra weight matter? My Rallon was a 33-36lb (depending on suspension/cushcore etc)build and I beat every time both up and down on my previous bike that was 4-5lb lighter (same year model and in theory the lighter bike should have been quicker up hill)and I never once wished for a lighter bike at anytime, I just got on with it and rode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    I wonder at what point does the extra weight matter? My Rallon was a 33-36lb (depending on suspension/cushcore etc)build and I beat every time both up and down on my previous bike that was 4-5lb lighter (same year model and in theory the lighter bike should have been quicker up hill)and I never once wished for a lighter bike at anytime, I just got on with it and rode.
    It always matters, it's just that there are clearly other aspects that matter a whole lot more.

    The are various examples out there, mostly for road, but the idea is the same. Of course, this assumes all else being equal: conditions, comfort, position, etc.

    It should be noted, the steeper the climb, the more the weight matters.

    14k @8% (Alpe d'Huez), 1 kilo added 24 seconds over a 50ish minute ride. Performed at 275 watts.

    2 mile climb @10%, 200watts. 5lbs adds 38 seconds

  68. #68
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    Weight always matters, no one is going to turn down the option of having a lighter weight bike, that would be silly. If all these bikes are ďgood enoughĒ, then things like weight, cost, the finer aspects of geometry are going to be the variables that shortage the bikes.

    My Smash is in the 35# range, I ride it.

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    I wonder at what point does the extra weight matter? My Rallon was a 33-36lb (depending on suspension/cushcore etc)build and I beat every time both up and down on my previous bike that was 4-5lb lighter (same year model and in theory the lighter bike should have been quicker up hill)and I never once wished for a lighter bike at anytime, I just got on with it and rode.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

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    I think I should have made this an east coast vs west coast bike thread

    Nurse Ben: you have the GG Smash? Thoughts on east coast riding that bike?

    As I mentioned earlier in the thread I ride NJ/NY trails as my homebase but I am thinking of moving down to NC probably in the next year or two if everything works out...

    If i had been making a decision even a year or two ago i probably would have done a 27.5 bike...but this new crop of 29'ers in the 130-150mm range have really peaked my interest BUT something in the back of my head draws me back to 27.5. Popular consensus is that the 29er ability to just roll over everything seems to outweigh the superiority the 27.5 may have in slow speed and tight technical trails...

    I got to ride an Esker Elkat (150mm rear) at Outerbike Bentonville which was one of the few 27.5 bikes I rode and it did stand out as the most playful of the group i rode (rest were 29ers) Has Weagle new Orion suspension system...Medium Elkat has similiar numbers (425mm CS, 440 Reach, 345mm BB) to a size small GG Smash but with 27.5 wheels...

    If the weather would just cooperate with me I want to get back on a Ripmo again and of course take my brother's Offering out on the trail.
    GG and Knolly on the list cause I always like a nice aluminum frame and if I can build it up at 30lbs or under I'd be happy with it...I think I could get a demo on a GG, but Knolly is probably not happening...

    Any other suggestions for a great east coast bike let me know...

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    The Smash is a long and tall bike, esp running 29" wheels. Now I'm not complaining, it's never prevented me from doing anything I wanted to do, BUT, it is more bike to throw around than a comparable 27.5. That said, even with 27.5 wheels, it's still not as agile and playful as I'd like.

    If I was out your way, I'd have two bikes: a short travel 29er for long days and a mid travel 27.5 with aggressive geo for everything else.

    In a mid travel 27.5 there are tons of great bikes to choose from, my lean would be toward a bike like the Transition Scout, Ibis Mojo 3, Norco Sight, Devinci Troy, Fezzari La Sal. I prefer to run a fatter tire, 2.6-2.8, which knocks out the the Troy.

    Edit: Just looked up that Eskat, very nice bike, that one goes on my list! For sure, if you wanna save some money and don't mind a heavier frame, check out the Scout, though it's 130mm travel, it'd be an awesome east coast bike. They have in the past, so will probably in the future, make this frame in Carbon.

    I rode a ton in the NC mountains, Pisgah is a lot like the stuff you have up north, rocks and roots, rugged stuff, short and steep, so having the ability to manual and throw a biek around in very tight conditions is essential. The only 29er that can do that is a Riot and they are no longer being made.

    Folks talk about how agile the new geo 29ers are, but let's face it, those big wheels can never be as agile as a smaller wheel due to size and suspension limitations. If you ride really big and long lines, west coast riding, sure, a long 29er would be fine, but even in Moab, a 29er is not always your friend.

    I don't think there is as big of an east vs west coast difference as you think. Riding PNW is very similar to riding in the East, out west we just have more public lands to build trails, so the trails are longer.

    I've been playing with 29ers for a long long time, muni, tandem, trail, but as much as I want the big wheels to be my everything, they are just too big when the travel goes over ~130mm. So I'm limiting myself to 29ers for all around use, short travel. For my big hit, go crazy bike I'm currently looking at swapping out my Smash frame for a 27.5 frame, probably wait until Spring, my focus is shortest chainstays possible (425-430), ~140-150 travel, plus compatible, decent climber.

    So, since you're thinking about moving south, why not move west? I spent my first thirty years in the west, my next twenty years in the east, now I've been back out west five years and I'm loving every minute. Not once do I miss the east, not for a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    I think I should have made this an east coast vs west coast bike thread

    Nurse Ben: you have the GG Smash? Thoughts on east coast riding that bike?

    As I mentioned earlier in the thread I ride NJ/NY trails as my homebase but I am thinking of moving down to NC probably in the next year or two if everything works out...

    If i had been making a decision even a year or two ago i probably would have done a 27.5 bike...but this new crop of 29'ers in the 130-150mm range have really peaked my interest BUT something in the back of my head draws me back to 27.5. Popular consensus is that the 29er ability to just roll over everything seems to outweigh the superiority the 27.5 may have in slow speed and tight technical trails...

    I got to ride an Esker Elkat (150mm rear) at Outerbike Bentonville which was one of the few 27.5 bikes I rode and it did stand out as the most playful of the group i rode (rest were 29ers) Has Weagle new Orion suspension system...Medium Elkat has similiar numbers (425mm CS, 440 Reach, 345mm BB) to a size small GG Smash but with 27.5 wheels...

    If the weather would just cooperate with me I want to get back on a Ripmo again and of course take my brother's Offering out on the trail.
    GG and Knolly on the list cause I always like a nice aluminum frame and if I can build it up at 30lbs or under I'd be happy with it...I think I could get a demo on a GG, but Knolly is probably not happening...

    Another Edit: I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Scout frame ...

    Any other suggestions for a great east coast bike let me know...
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:50 PM.
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  71. #71
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    Jeffsy, La Sal Peak, Ripmo or SB130?

    too many rad bikes, too many choices. it's nice to read the bike 2019 Bible of Bike Tests to get some media feedback, read forum opinions, geek out, compare, have decision fatigue etc. probably gonna come down to your budget. depending on who works on your bike might play a role in your decision in terms of maintenance. if you have multiple bikes and wheelsets (I'm sure most on here do) just choose what you like, it's pretty cool to be able to swap to 27.5+ wheels I guess, but I guess most here have migrated to the 29" wheel for a reason.

    have a mk1 jeffsy29 that's totally different than the new version, rode it over the summer really liked it, and just picked up a lsp. just a handful of rides on the lsp on some local Santa Cruz mountain trails, even some xc loops at a more mellow Fort Ord (sea otter classic). like most, I tend to look for quiver killers because in the summer's we travel to bigger mountain rides in the Sierra, OR, etc., or at least bigger mountain for me. having a longer travel bike that feels like a trail bike, soaks up terrain, balanced wheelbase for extended downhills/even tighter singletrack, climbs sustained lengths/punchy sections, is reliable/fixable, makes everything more comfortable especially as I get older. bike's pretty sick and it's out performed my skills/expectations after a few rides but will really have to wait till the end of summer to really see, I guess.

    the steep seat angle really works, not totally my 1st choice to ride more xc style trails but definitely works and does an excellent job. that might totally depend on my mood that day too, or and if I'm riding with someone(s). definitely liking all the reviews of the signal peak and will probably go that direction for a more pedally trail bike.

    lsp w/carbon wheelset is under 30#, haven't officially weighed it but that's what they told me. light af. I like the ibis and if I could afford it I would, for me that extra $$'s just more trips an other bike, moto, fish, snow, ______ expensive hobby related junk. never ridden a yeti but that suspension design looks like hella effort to clean/maintain, ymmv. digging the underdog brand and love the concept. one of the main reasons I bought a lsp was to get heckled (I'm a 44 year old dude foo). living in norcal's a definite brand whore fest on the daily so take that for what it's worth. On my 2nd ride on the lsp I saw some buddies getting a lap in during a lunch break (Kona dealer), when they saw the bike they were like "is that a Ferrari?"

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    I think I should have made this an east coast vs west coast bike thread

    Nurse Ben: you have the GG Smash? Thoughts on east coast riding that bike?

    As I mentioned earlier in the thread I ride NJ/NY trails as my homebase but I am thinking of moving down to NC probably in the next year or two if everything works out...

    If i had been making a decision even a year or two ago i probably would have done a 27.5 bike...but this new crop of 29'ers in the 130-150mm range have really peaked my interest BUT something in the back of my head draws me back to 27.5. Popular consensus is that the 29er ability to just roll over everything seems to outweigh the superiority the 27.5 may have in slow speed and tight technical trails...

    I got to ride an Esker Elkat (150mm rear) at Outerbike Bentonville which was one of the few 27.5 bikes I rode and it did stand out as the most playful of the group i rode (rest were 29ers) Has Weagle new Orion suspension system...Medium Elkat has similiar numbers (425mm CS, 440 Reach, 345mm BB) to a size small GG Smash but with 27.5 wheels...

    If the weather would just cooperate with me I want to get back on a Ripmo again and of course take my brother's Offering out on the trail.
    GG and Knolly on the list cause I always like a nice aluminum frame and if I can build it up at 30lbs or under I'd be happy with it...I think I could get a demo on a GG, but Knolly is probably not happening...

    Any other suggestions for a great east coast bike let me know...
    I think Nurse Ben is correct about the Riot being the best East Coast bike 29er. To get close you'll have to size down with the Smash or Offering, higher BB helps with "playfulness" as well as short chainstays.Their size small is close to a medium Riot. I just bought a medium Riot frame to size up to to see if I can get along with the bike since this is how the trends go.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    I think Nurse Ben is correct about the Riot being the best East Coast bike 29er. To get close you'll have to size down with the Smash or Offering, higher BB helps with "playfulness" as well as short chainstays.Their size small is close to a medium Riot. I just bought a medium Riot frame to size up to to see if I can get along with the bike since this is how the trends go.
    I think ill get a small Fugitive. The small Smash and even offering i think are too long for me.

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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmo View Post
    I think ill get a small Fugitive. The small Smash and even offering i think are too long for me.

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    This is the direction that I'll go unless the longer bike is magic lol. In WNC the Knolly makes sence with its short travel for Dupont and long travel in Pisgah. The Fugitive is still a bike that a 5'6" can toss around. On paper at least.

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    So what happened with the Canfield Riot/Tior anyway? Dated website, and seems like incommunicado?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsklrdr View Post
    So what happened with the Canfield Riot/Tior anyway? Dated website, and seems like incommunicado?
    Gen 1 is flexy and heavy, Canfield went into building a carbon Riot, after dumping a bunch of money into it. And sold off remaining inventory. The frames were out of spec. What happens next is unknown. Some say this year they'll pull through some say they're done. Canfield hasn't said anything yet.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yes, the Smash is good bike, but it rides firm, not supple, not comfortable. I like the Smash for what it does well, stable at speed, competent climber, excellent for Moab styled riding, but it ainít light and poppy by a long stretch.

    If I still lived in TN, Iíd pick a more compact bike that was light and flickable. Unlike out west, the eastern lines are short, you want a bike you can throw around fast and easy cuz you donít have the time to wait for a bike to respond.

    Out east Iíd want the shortest stays possible, 420mm if I could get them... though in a 29er thatíll be tough to find unless the brothers start selling bikes again. The limiting factor in shortening chainstays is wheel diameter and travel.

    And I know Iím gonna get shite for saying it, but I donít think a long travel 29er is a good choice for east coast riding. 29Ē wheels might be fine in a short travel or SS bike, but a long travel bike sits higher, suggests a more aggressive use, and in tight terrain Iíd pick a 27.5 without a second thought.



    My current quiver is a Smash, 140/160, running 27.5 x 2.8, itís my big bike for tech and going fast. Iím building a Signal Peak 120/140, running 29 x 2.6 for long days and for non tech.
    I've been riding a Troy for the last 4 years, and now a Ripmo since September in classic VT tight technical trails and I can say definitely that the Ripmo is more agile and able to navigate tight switchbacks better.

    XL Troy and a Large Ripmo might have something to do with it, but the Troy was a lot more like a traditional large in reach.

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    Could be wheelbase, could be geo, similar suspension so it's hard to say.

    I'm not a huge Troy fan, for some reason it never rode well for me, but I like Devinci quite a lot, rode an Atlas x 2 and a Hendrix.

    I consider a Django, but tire clearance is not great, geo is not progressive enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    I've been riding a Troy for the last 4 years, and now a Ripmo since September in classic VT tight technical trails and I can say definitely that the Ripmo is more agile and able to navigate tight switchbacks better.

    XL Troy and a Large Ripmo might have something to do with it, but the Troy was a lot more like a traditional large in reach.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    I think Nurse Ben is correct about the Riot being the best East Coast bike 29er.
    V1 Evil Following???

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    Quote Originally Posted by BossLog View Post
    V1 Evil Following???
    For the less technical stuff yes. Especially for peddly trails. 120mm is a bit short on travel and it had some pedal kick i didn't like, but it could be ignored except in chunky stuff.

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    I went from a V1 Following to a Rallon. The only scenario I feel the Rallon is more bike to maneuver is steep mid speed tightish turns going down. Going up they feel MUCH easier though. Going down I've adopted this wrestle it from kinda behind the back of the bike technique to initiate the turn. There probably is room for improvement here but this is what find myself doing to get the bike to do what I want in this particular situation. I kinda throw the bike out in front of me and pivot on the rear wheel then regain center. Everywhere else the Rallon smokes the following for my riding.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Another log to throw on the fire Devinchi Troy 29er

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    If you haven't thrown a leg over a short chainstay bike, ie 420mm or less, then it's hard to convey the feeling of freedom and potential that such geometry allows, esp in a 29" wheel.

    It's like going from a typical mountain bike to a trials bike. Sure, there are some great riders who can do anything with a bike, trials riders routinely show us what is possible on bikes like Ripmo, BUT, those folks got skills we can only dream of ... when was the last time you nose wheelied into a ten drop to flat?

    So yeah, there's the Canfield Riot and pretty much everything else, though there is the Lenzsport bikes, they certainly have the short chainstay thing down, suspension is a tad firm, but can be customized...

    I admit it, I miss the the short chainstays of my Fatillac and Wozo.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yes, the Smash is good bike, but it rides firm, not supple, not comfortable.
    I've got a Smash as well and while I'd agree its suspension is not soft it's definitely comfortable and controlled. 5hrs+ into a rocky rooty BC tech ride or Moab chunkfest and I am feeling great. Not beat up at all.

    I suspect NB and I have our Smash's setup quite differently. I'm on a dual coil suspension front and back...MRP Coil Ribbon + RS Super Deluxe Coil.

    Of the various suspension designs I've tried VPP, DWlink & Knolly 4x4 it's my favourite with a really nice mix of traction, support and impact absorption. No need to flip climb switches. No need to pay any attention your bike's back end it just works.

    I don't think worrying about a few grams matters, but if I can save 1.5lbs+ on a frame without giving up anything is durability or performance or spending a fortune I'll take it. That just means I can throw dual coils on the bike without the overall weight getting silly.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  85. #85
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    I'd like to see the Evil Offering thrown in the mix as well.

  86. #86
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    Not so different, we run the same shock, I'm running in plush, only difference is the fork; I don't think a coil fork is softer which is why I gave mine up

    The firmness I speak of is not related to front end feel. I'm talking about the backend. I'm running a really light coil (400#) and it's still not cushy. It's a sentiment that is common among GG bike owners, some care more than others, but if you're an older guy and you want a flying sofa feel as you pedal through junk, it's probably not the best choice.

    That said, if you do buy a "sofa bike", it won't climb as well and it won't be ideal for tech, so it's a compromise. Some bike suspensions seem tobe more advanced, better able to manage the varied conditions we ride in, but it's really one of those things that you have try for yourself.

    The suspension feel on the Smash is comparable to the Fatillac.

    After all this discussion, and the OP's comment on liking how the Ripmo rides, I suspect that would be a solid choice. Perhaps there are too many solid choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've got a Smash as well and while I'd agree its suspension is not soft it's definitely comfortable and controlled. 5hrs+ into a rocky rooty BC tech ride or Moab chunkfest and I am feeling great. Not beat up at all.

    I suspect NB and I have our Smash's setup quite differently. I'm on a dual coil suspension front and back...MRP Coil Ribbon + RS Super Deluxe Coil.

    Of the various suspension designs I've tried VPP, DWlink & Knolly 4x4 it's my favourite with a really nice mix of traction, support and impact absorption. No need to flip climb switches. No need to pay any attention your bike's back end it just works.

    I don't think worrying about a few grams matters, but if I can save 1.5lbs+ on a frame without giving up anything is durability or performance or spending a fortune I'll take it. That just means I can throw dual coils on the bike without the overall weight getting silly.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I'm talking about the backend. I'm running a really light coil (400#) and it's still not cushy.
    I'm talking about the backend as well. Listening to you talk about your bike since you got it makes me scratch my head at times since it doesn't sound like the one I am riding. I'm just pointing that out for folks who might otherwise only have the one data point.

    On the same note back when I owned a Pivot Mach 6 [which I loved] I rode a demo Mach 6 and hated the suspension. If that was my only data point for that bike I would have told you it was pretty awful. I jumped back on my own Mach 6 and was back in love.

    All that to say setup has a ton of impact on the experience you end up with.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  88. #88
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    The only thing I can think of is having a longer bike could change the feel, it's a possibility, but I don't have a medium-medium to compare.

    I don't want anyone reading this to think I don't like my bike, in fact I just got off it after an early morning pre-work ride; gotta love having trails out your backyard.

    My favorite suspension "feel" as of late is Devinci DW and Trek Fuel/Full Stache. Though they ride very different, they feel nice riding through junk and on long days. The DW suspension is pretty nice riding overall, though I don't think it's the best for out of the saddle tech climbs and muscle moves. The Full Stache/Fuel EX suspension rides really well, but the low BB and stoopid headset lock are annoying; it's also a Trek.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm talking about the backend as well. Listening to you talk about your bike since you got it makes me scratch my head at times since it doesn't sound like the one I am riding. I'm just pointing that out for folks who might otherwise only have the one data point.

    On the same note back when I owned a Pivot Mach 6 [which I loved] I rode a demo Mach 6 and hated the suspension. If that was my only data point for that bike I would have told you it was pretty awful. I jumped back on my own Mach 6 and was back in love.

    All that to say setup has a ton of impact on the experience you end up with.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

  89. #89
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    I borrowed a shockwhiz when I setup my Fugitive's X2. Way less compression changed it from firm to bump eating and efficient. The differences may due to shock settings.

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I borrowed a shockwhiz when I setup my Fugitive's X2. Way less compression changed it from firm to bump eating and efficient. The differences may due to shock settings.
    For sure...there are all sorts of ways to make a shock perform differently...damper settings, pre-load, spring rate, etc... Sometimes they are counter-intuitive...like too light a spring feeling harsh because you end up too deep in the shock stroke too easily.

    Without riding someone else's bike there is no way to be sure...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  91. #91
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    Two shocks, air and coil, two coils, preload on the coil until till it's not rattling, though I did add more preload just to see what that feels like; not any better, just engages sooner.

    Honestly, there's only so much that can be adjusted. It's optimized now, it rides fine, just not as soft as I'd like. It is the suspension design that makes it feel the way it feels.

    As the saying goes, lipstick on a pig...

    I'm actually intrigued by the Orion suspension design, though I'd like to see it in person, but if it's DWesque but better, that is probably the way I'll go with my next 27.5 frame. Esker Elkat looks nice.

    Fro my 29er short travel, still working on Signal Peak build up, ordered an XL frame and mocked it up for sizing, reach was way too long, so I reordered a L frame, it should be here Friday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I borrowed a shockwhiz when I setup my Fugitive's X2. Way less compression changed it from firm to bump eating and efficient. The differences may due to shock settings.

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

  92. #92
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    NB states my exact sentiments and experience with the Smash. Plush mode, air and coil, 28 to 35% sag. Could not get it to feel plush and controlled through big fast chop on South Mountain in Phoenix.

    Not a shock as multiple owners have reported the same. Not a slam on the bike. People just like a different feel and thatís fine.

    The Smash and Ripmo are nothing alike, other than theyíre both bikes with 29 wheels.

    Iím amused by the resurgence of the Riot. Look, Iím a Canfield fanboy and that bike was pretty fun in certain limited situations. But it weighed a ton, was super-flexy and riding it at speed in big gnar was SCARY.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  93. #93
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    Yes, BUT, it is/was a very fun bike and if those problems were solved with a carbon fiber Riot ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Iím amused by the resurgence of the Riot. Look, Iím a Canfield fanboy and that bike was pretty fun in certain limited situations. But it weighed a ton, was super-flexy and riding it at speed in big gnar was SCARY.
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+ (Frameset For Sale)
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak 29+
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife's)

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Two shocks, air and coil, two coils, preload on the coil until till it's not rattling, though I did add more preload just to see what that feels like; not any better, just engages sooner.

    Honestly, there's only so much that can be adjusted. It's optimized now, it rides fine, just not as soft as I'd like. It is the suspension design that makes it feel the way it feels.

    As the saying goes, lipstick on a pig...

    I'm actually intrigued by the Orion suspension design, though I'd like to see it in person, but if it's DWesque but better, that is probably the way I'll go with my next 27.5 frame. Esker Elkat looks nice.

    Fro my 29er short travel, still working on Signal Peak build up, ordered an XL frame and mocked it up for sizing, reach was way too long, so I reordered a L frame, it should be here Friday.
    I rode elkat at outerbike and was really impressed by it. Its top choice if i go 27.5 which i think i am leaning toward rather than a 29er at this point. Compared to other bikes i rode at outerbike it felt much easier to move and place. It does stick at as one of the bike i had the most fun on and Tim from Esker is a cool dude to just shoot the shit with about bikes.

    At outerbike i also rode yeti sb130/150, evil wreckoning/offering, mondraker foxy, jamis portal and hardline with their 3vo suspension, pivot switchblade...

    3vo really impressed me also. Just prefer different geo at this point and would have to do a frame up build if i really wanted it as id want to change too many parts from their stock offerings. It had a similar feel to dwlink but i would dare say had a slightly more supple feeling on the little stuff. Seems to smooth out the trail chatter better. Great option in bang for buck category.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    NB states my exact sentiments and experience with the Smash. Plush mode, air and coil, 28 to 35% sag. Could not get it to feel plush and controlled through big fast chop on South Mountain in Phoenix.

    Not a shock as multiple owners have reported the same. Not a slam on the bike. People just like a different feel and thatís fine.

    The Smash and Ripmo are nothing alike, other than theyíre both bikes with 29 wheels.

    Iím amused by the resurgence of the Riot. Look, Iím a Canfield fanboy and that bike was pretty fun in certain limited situations. But it weighed a ton, was super-flexy and riding it at speed in big gnar was SCARY.
    Linear coil or slight falling with air ratio bikes feel the best in chunk IMHO. The Riot needs a really good shock since everything in the rear is happening right under the rider, short chainstays have their drawbacks. So an aftermarket shock is a must. The bike feels totally in control with my Avalanche chubby. But terrible with a topaz or monarch. This does not fix the flex and weight issues though. Its a good bike for lighter riders though.
    How much do you weight with your impressions of the Ripmo?
    Im upsizing to a medium Riot while I search for a bike. Since every small is now a medium in fit.

  96. #96
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    Iím 6í2, 190 in gear. Iíve owned many bikes over the past few years. The Ripmo is the best thing Iíve ever ridden.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  97. #97
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    Sorry for the late response but just seeing this feed now.

    I have a 2018 YT Jeffsy CF 29er. Earlier this year I was riding a 2018 Santa Cruz Bronson but felt like it was too small and too playful on the downhills, I was getting bounced off the bike.

    The Jeffsy is the most fun bike Iíve ridden now. I did have to toss the old RS Deluxe shock out and put an older x2 on the rear to calm it down a bit and it made all the difference. The bike turned into an absolute machine.

    I will say that the new Yt Jeffsy (2019 model) looks absolutely amazing. If I hadnít just bought this bike I would be getting the new one ASAP. They fixed everything that needed to be changed - from the geometry getting longer and slacker to the suspension going all fox. The bike simply looks perfect to me and itís at a price point that no other company is beating. Even the Fezzari cost more.

    I say go with YT if money is tight. If money is no object then get the Ripmo, I think thatís a great bike too but it was just a bit too harsh for me. Kind of felt like I was riding a hardtail on the small roots and bumps.

  98. #98
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    GG Trail Pistol?

  99. #99
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    I had a Ripmo for about 6 months and then switched to the La Sal Peak when it came out, I donít regret it for a second. The La Sal Peak is incredible!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBEU View Post
    I had a Ripmo for about 6 months and then switched to the La Sal Peak when it came out, I donít regret it for a second. The La Sal Peak is incredible!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Can you speak to the differences from your perspective. Any particular reason for the switch?

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