How heavy is a monkey?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 44 of 44
  1. #1

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    74

    How heavy is a monkey?

    Hello,

    I'm planning to get a karate monkey in the spring and I was just wondering how heavy it would be in the $1000 price range? I realize ss would save some weight but I'm going to need gears. How much weight would an extra $200 save and where would you put it? How much more do disc brakes weigh?

    I suppose I could post this on the save weight forum but I figured people here would be more familiar with the karate monkey.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    The Duuude, man...
    Reputation: ncj01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,537
    Quote Originally Posted by chris the monikerless
    Hello,

    I'm planning to get a karate monkey in the spring and I was just wondering how heavy it would be in the $1000 price range? I realize ss would save some weight but I'm going to need gears. How much weight would an extra $200 save and where would you put it? How much more do disc brakes weigh?

    I suppose I could post this on the save weight forum but I figured people here would be more familiar with the karate monkey.

    Thanks.
    Not too heavy to make anything else approach it frin an overall VALUE perspective.

    My recommendation: Spend any extra money insuring you have a great set of wheels.
    FS: Everything

  3. #3
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,017
    Discs add between half a pound and a pound (200 to 400g). Unless you do 3000ft descends, a rear V really suffices. Discs also add lots of cash, if you don't have them to begin with.
    A geared budget monkey all out of new parts is going be one impressive tank. A pain to drag up the sairs to your appt, but on the trails probably still more fun than you've ever had with your pants on.

    If you already have a 27.2mm seatpost bike, swap seatposts for a time. The new ride will get most of the miles for the time being anyway.

    There's things you can do to keep a bike light without increasing costs.
    Foam/cork grips, Smart parts choices, housebrand bars/stems/seats, etc. Truvativ, Deore or LX cranks.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  4. #4
    highly visible
    Reputation: GlowBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,188
    Quote Originally Posted by chris the monikerless
    Hello,

    I'm planning to get a karate monkey in the spring and I was just wondering how heavy it would be in the $1000 price range? I realize ss would save some weight but I'm going to need gears. How much weight would an extra $200 save and where would you put it? How much more do disc brakes weigh?

    I suppose I could post this on the save weight forum but I figured people here would be more familiar with the karate monkey.

    Thanks.
    Well, the frame is a bit over 5.5 pounds in most sizes, meaning it's a good pound heavier than a higher-end steel frame, and 1.5-2 pounds heavier than an aluminum or titanium frame. That's heavy, but the value is incredible. If you think you'll have more money later, plan on getting a higher-end custom frame in the future and offsetting its cost by selling the KM frame. Many KM buyers plan on this at the outset, then keeping it because they love it so much.

    If you're on a budget but weight is that much of a concern, get some lightweight wheels. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck there, and rotating weight matters a whole lot more than static weight anyway.

    And don't get discs unless (adding one more condition to what Cloxxki said) either (1) you do massive downhills or (2) you ride in rain, mud or snow a lot. For sloppy conditions discs are an absolute must, but in the dry they're extra dead weight and expense except for being slightly easier to adjust than V brakes.

    Hope this helps.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    414

    Sweet!

    Look at my recent post on KM - Love. Mine is SS and will stay that way, is a LG frame size with the stock fork and some pretty high end parts, bullet proof but heavy Phil Wood KISS-OFF hubs, Salsa rims etc. etc. and it comes in at 24.03 lbs. Depending on what size you get and if you stay v-brakes, you could be at 27lbs for a LG. The bike is incredible, I still am surprised at how well a $400 frame and fork rides. I am also one of those converts that this bike is a transition bike to a custom Ti, but I may just end up keeping it in my stable. You will not believe the ride especially if all you have ridden is a 26er. I think if we took a poll the majority of the riders here on this forum either have a KM as their 29er or was their first 29er. They are sweet, sell some of your 26er stuff and buy one. My LBS just said today they can't get some of the sizes right now. What does that say about sales? Do it!

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ernesto_from_Wisconsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,006

    Squirrels

    I don't know how much mine weighs. It ain't light. Frame is heavy, asian, and black. Other than that, I installed new Salsa Pro Moto flatties on it last night and it looks, um, lighter?
    Plus I have it on SS mode, but it ain't light, yawl!

    Um, OT sort of: The average squirrel monkey weights one and half to two pounds and measures from ten to 14 inches. Its tail can be another 14 to 16 inches-long

  7. #7

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy

    And don't get discs unless (adding one more condition to what Cloxxki said) either (1) you do massive downhills or (2) you ride in rain, mud or snow a lot.
    I'm considering disc brakes because I hate the way the brakes start grinding on the rims when ever it gets wet. I'm not too worried about a half pound or a pound of weight, I've lost more than that by going to the bathroom. I just don't want it to be a tank.

  8. #8
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,017
    My KM actually feels like a rocket tank. Sturdy and on steroids. Much like myself really. Oops, did I just write that?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  9. #9
    What's up Dut?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    361

    weight

    My KM weighs about 24.5 lbs. It is set up with a disc brake up front and a v-brake in the rear. Bonti Race wheelset and tubeless. It is set up fairly nice. But like it has been stated. The frame and fork alone is a pig. But, you will love the KM all the same. It is my favorite bike right now. Plus, you can't beat the price for the frame and fork.

    If you are concerned about weight and don't mind having your monkey weigh 24-25 lbs, than do it. Otherwise, buy a custom walt works or something. There is always something out there a bit lighter. Why spend all of that extra money to make something lighter that really wasn't intended to be a lightweight rig?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ernesto_from_Wisconsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,006

    roids

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    My KM actually feels like a rocket tank. Sturdy and on steroids. Much like myself really. Oops, did I just write that?
    Steroids are the new Pink. I remember back in the day of being a freshman at Smithson Valley High School in TX, there was a guy in my track team who claimed to be used steroids. He was a sprinter in my track team and he told me his dad would inject him with roids above his knees. I don't know if he was jankin' my chain, but he was a jerk to me too.

    Other than that, I love the Monkey...and i am seriously considering getting another one...

  11. #11

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    233

    About 28 pounds

    Quote Originally Posted by chris the monikerless
    Hello,

    I'm planning to get a karate monkey in the spring and I was just wondering how heavy it would be in the $1000 price range?
    My KM comes in at 28 pounds +/- 1.0 pounds based on the scale
    I use. It is a very much a "standard build", geared, tubes, standard
    Shimano XT stuff, vbrake. At one point I posted the exact bits and pieces.

    www.excelsports.com built it up for around $1500 +/- tax and bits
    and pieces.

    I could never come up with a much lower price than the LBS, and when
    I try to figure out where to lose some weight, tubes come to mind,
    rims? tires? seat post? handle bars? I was thinking what I might
    do come the Spring as an upgrade ...it is built with
    disc hubs ...


    -r

  12. #12
    dirty hippy mountainbiker
    Reputation: wolfy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,146

    What wheelsets?

    What's light for a 29er wheelset? What brand? Is Stan's No-tube a lightening option?

    -M
    Mike Henderson, Dirty Hippy Mountain Biker and part owner of Jet Lites.

  13. #13
    Frame Building Moderator
    Reputation: Walt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,489

    Are you going to weigh the bike or ride it?

    If your budget calls for a Karate Monkey, and you're not a serious weight weenie or racer geek, you need to not worry about weight for a while. You're just going to make yourself crazy - build the KM with cheap, solid parts. Let it end up 28 or 30 pounds. So what? Make sure it's the kind of bike you'll NEVER have to fix or replace parts on. Then keep that bike for 20 years - and if you want a lightweight racer setup, get something else to complement it when you've got the money.

    You can easily build yourself a KM for under $1000 that will go forever - and be a source of backup parts when/if your race bike falls apart. In my opinion, people that spend big bucks on parts for the KM are kind of missing the point - it's an awesome bike, but if you want to drop $2000, you should be looking for a nicer frame. On the other hand, if you're on a budget, you might as well not worry about tweaking things to save 10 grams here or there - let it be a tank! Your wallet will thank you, and your legs won't notice the difference after the first 5 minutes.

    -Walt

  14. #14
    www.badgercycles.com
    Reputation: robpennell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    309

    Smithson Valley High School in TX??

    Your from Spring Branch? My Grandfathers ranch is in between Boerne and Comfort. I went to Middle School in Boerne then we moved back down to Cotulla.

  15. #15

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by mdutcher
    If you are concerned about weight and don't mind having your monkey weigh 24-25 lbs, than do it.
    I would be quite happy with 25 pounds, that would be about 10 pounds lighter than my old bianchi.

    Maybe I should phrase the question differently: How much would a 25 pound karate monkey cost?

    Thanks.

  16. #16
    The Duuude, man...
    Reputation: ncj01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,537
    Quote Originally Posted by chris the monikerless
    Maybe I should phrase the question differently: How much would a 25 pound karate monkey cost?
    Thanks.
    HAHA, clever!! I like it!!

    Geared or SS?

    SS, easy, <1000, you can do it for 600 using the Fisher Rig/Monkey el-swaparu method.

    Buy buying parts outright, you could still do it for <1000.
    FS: Everything

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ernesto_from_Wisconsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,006

    was

    Quote Originally Posted by robpennell
    Your from Spring Branch? My Grandfathers ranch is in between Boerne and Comfort. I went to Middle School in Boerne then we moved back down to Cotulla.
    I used to live back there in the 80's, in my grandpa's ranch off 281 in Bulverde...I am now in Milwaukee...hence, ernesto from Wisconsin.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: toddre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    2,389

    I'd be curious

    When anyone asks about Monkey weights, the reply is always
    "Depends how much you want to spend"
    Well has anyone ponyed up on one?
    Who has pimped out Monkey? (geared preferred)
    How much did it cost? how much does it weigh?
    Everyone says their's is light then it's a SS...nothing against SS's
    but what about us gear users?

  19. #19
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt
    Make sure it's the kind of bike you'll NEVER have to fix or replace parts on.
    Impossible (at least for me)!

  20. #20

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt

    You can easily build yourself a KM for under $1000 that will go forever - and be a source of backup parts when/if your race bike falls apart. In my opinion, people that spend big bucks on parts for the KM are kind of missing the point -

    -Walt
    That's a good idea except that it will be my only off-road bike and I'd like to build it up kind of nice. Although I'd like to give competition a try I don't have the budget or storage space for a second 'race' bike.

    How much does the average mountain bike weigh? If I could just keep it from being heavier than average I'd be pretty happy.

  21. #21
    Your bike sucks
    Reputation: Carl Mega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,703
    I think Walt gave you some good advice. Don't fret too much about the weight. It'll spoil your fun. Too much emphasis is placed on total weight without regard to where the weight is placed. Even concerning yourself with weight placement is appoaching nit-picky unless you are running something strange or looking for a performance angle.

    All that said, I think you are looking for numbers - so: If you got your monkey between 26-28lbs you're doing great. I don't think $1000 is buying you a lot unless you shop very, very wisely. My shop cost is over that on my ride and I don't have the foggiest idea what it weighs - I'll be happy around 28lbs.

  22. #22
    Bored
    Reputation: bigwheelboy_490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,982

    Doper...

    [QUOTE= Sturdy and on steroids. Much like myself really. Oops, did I just write that?[/QUOTE]

    You're no better than Meirhagger now...... Are you riding a Specialized too!
    MTBR is serious stuff.
    You never get better until you get out of your comfort zone.

  23. #23

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    I think Walt gave you some good advice. Don't fret too much about the weight. It'll spoil your fun.
    Part of the reason I'm fretting is because I want to know how much I have to save to get a decent set-up. I'd rather save a little longer if I have to and buy it right the first time.

    I tend to fret about a lot of things when I'm shopping but after I get the bike I don't seem to care as much because I know I've done my homework and made a good choice. After I get the bike and know it's one I like I'll probably stop caring.

  24. #24
    What's up Dut?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    361

    One more thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by chris the monikerless
    Part of the reason I'm fretting is because I want to know how much I have to save to get a decent set-up. I'd rather save a little longer if I have to and buy it right the first time.

    I tend to fret about a lot of things when I'm shopping but after I get the bike I don't seem to care as much because I know I've done my homework and made a good choice. After I get the bike and know it's one I like I'll probably stop caring.

    I forgot to mention that my KM that weighs about 24.5 lbs is set up as a SS. Geared will vary depending on what you throw on it.

  25. #25
    highly visible
    Reputation: GlowBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,188
    Quote Originally Posted by mdutcher
    I forgot to mention that my KM that weighs about 24.5 lbs is set up as a SS. Geared will vary depending on what you throw on it.
    Just for comparison, mine's 27.5 pounds, also SS, built with lots of chunk parts such as:

    - Salsa Delgado X rims laced to XT disc hubs. The stated weight for those rims is pretty light, but wide variances have been reported and I believe mine are on the heavier side. You could save 1/2-1 pound or more without too much trouble by spending a little more on your wheels.
    - Generic heavy tubes. Get the Bontrager lightweight ones and save something like 80g per wheel.
    - 185mm Avid mechanical discs. Get Vs and save at least half a pound.
    - 1991 vintage DX cranks mounted on an old UN-52 BB. Both parts are on their 3rd frame and refuse to die, so I keep running them. Haven't weighed the cranks, but I bet a more modern BB/crank system could save you about 1/2 pound.
    - Multiple chainrings and cogs for multiple gear options. Save 1/3 lb. by going "strictly" SS.
    - Time ATAC Alium pedals. Save 1/4 lb. with Eggbeaters, or nearly that with the new XS pedals.
    - Thudbuster seatpost. Go rigid here, save a pound.
    - 620mm Bontrager handlebar with two (!) sets of bar ends. Go to a lighter bar with singletrack solutions (or no) bar ends, and save nearly 1/2 pound.

    There you go ... just a few changes to my 27.5 pound setup, and you've got yourself down to around 23.5 pounds - and if you skip the discs and Thudbuster you'll also save money. You could save even more with lightweight stem, brake levers, etc. Figure on adding 1.5-2 pounds if you go geared (less than that if you can handle 1x9), and you can still be in the 25-26 pound range without spending a fortune.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    410
    I think you'll come in around 28 lbs based on my experience with a frame that's a pound lighter, a sus fork that's a pound + heavier and standard lo bling parts.

  27. #27
    Your bike sucks
    Reputation: Carl Mega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,703
    Well, I think that's reasonable. I personally don't think weight is the be-all some others do but if doing the research and fussing now is going to make you happy with the bike you build - do it. I'm all about researching first - if, for no other reason, so you are comfortable with your purchse. I hate buyers remorse and the "what if" demons that pop in to one's head.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    When anyone asks about Monkey weights, the reply is always
    "Depends how much you want to spend"
    Well has anyone ponyed up on one?
    Who has pimped out Monkey? (geared preferred)
    How much did it cost? how much does it weigh?
    Everyone says their's is light then it's a SS...nothing against SS's
    but what about us gear users?

    How "pimped" are you looking for?

    I have one only moderately "pimped" at 24.5 lbs with gears and discs:
    -KM Frame and fork.
    -XTR 965 Disc hubs with Bonty Race Lite rims, DT Competitions and brass nipples.
    -Nano raptors (currently with tubes awaiting conversion to stans)
    -XTR Disc brakes front and rear, Deore Disc levers
    -Race Face Deus XC crankset
    -Thompson Stem and Seatpost.
    -Salsa Pro Moto flat bar
    -WTB Stealth Saddle
    -Sram X.9 Shifters and Rear der
    -LX Front Der
    -M540 Pedals

    I imagine that 23 would be reasonable with carbon bar/seatpost, a lighter stem and pedals. 22 with a lighter Kelly fork.

    But I feel I have followed Walt's logic in building a durable bike, albeit for more than $1000 retail.

  29. #29
    Always Learning
    Reputation: BruceBrown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,606
    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    When anyone asks about Monkey weights, the reply is always
    "Depends how much you want to spend"
    Well has anyone ponyed up on one?
    Who has pimped out Monkey? (geared preferred)
    How much did it cost? how much does it weigh?
    Everyone says their's is light then it's a SS...nothing against SS's
    but what about us gear users?
    Ponyed up?

    Yeah, I burned some cash to gear up a KM frame once I moved back to the states. Total cost was $2K and even more when custom wheelset is included.

    XL size Karate Monkey frame with fork built up running gears and disc brakes.

    What's it outfitted with?

    SRAM X.0 (twist shifters, grips, rear derailleur, SRAM chain)
    XT Front Derailleur
    Jagwire Rattler Mac cables and housing
    RaceFace Next LP crankset with BB
    RaceFace Carbon Bar
    King Headset
    Salsa Skewers and Seatpost Lock
    Avid 185mm Mechanical Disc Brakes
    Shimano PD-M647 Pedals (damn heavy at 552 grams for the pair)
    Easton Aluminum Post
    Selle Italian Gel Pro-Link Saddle

    I took the Speedcity wheelset off and just weighed the frame/fork and components to see what the XL tricked out with these costly parts weighs. Without wheelset, tires, tubes, rear cassette, rotors and skewers - the bike weighs in at exactly 18 pounds with everything on it.

    How much does a wheelset with cassette, tires, tubes, rotors and skewers weigh?

    Depends, right?

    I had a custom disc wheelset built to use on my Sugar 293 and Karate Monkey (both use Avid 185mm's - so switching between the two is easy if one can handle their Monkey Nuts):

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=46305

    TOTAL of custom wheelset with everything mounted up (cassette/rotors/skewers/tires/tubes): 8.8 pounds

    TOTAL of Mavic Speedcity with rotors, rear cassete, skewers, Monkey Nuts, Bonty Slime tubes (very heavy, but they have won the battle of the thorns so far) and Bontrager 2.2's: 10.5 pounds.

    Pop this custom wheelset on my Karate Monkey and total weight is 26.8 pounds.
    Pop the Mavic Speedcity wheelset, the bike jumps up to 28.5 pounds.

    Could I save more weight and pony up some more $$$?

    Sure, mostly in 3 areas:

    1 - If I wasn't such a "big" guy - I would happily run some of those 185 gram a pair Ti Eggbeaters for around $350. Don't you have to be like a skeleton or a midget to use those Ti Eggbeaters so they don't snap off in the cranks?

    2 - The Avid Mechanical 185mm's are not exactly weight weenie material, but it's the brake set I wanted because they are easy to operate, maintain and for me have become an almost no-brainer disc brake to set up.

    3 - A lighter wheelset could be had as well.

    But hey, I like my Karate Monkey with the components I chose and especially the way it rides. Worry about weight? I recently went from 212 pounds to 190 pounds on my own frame. That's been a hell of a lot better boost performance wise for my riding than worrying exactly how much my bike weighs - or could weigh.

    End result of this post is that yes, price wise, I ponyed up for an "expensive" Karate Monkey and the extra $$$$ maybe saved a little weight, but I was really going for a tricked out scheme of parts I wanted to have in my first ever build.

    I could easily see somebody tossing cash at a component set and wheelset that would get a KM up around $3K for the entire build. Whether the geared KM bike costs $1K, $2K or $3K - the weight is still going to be in the 24 - 30 pound category and much fun riding can be had at all price points.

    My advice: be creative, build your sled within your budget and ride like there is no tomorrow.

    BB
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 01-07-2005 at 09:53 AM.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13
    Hey, you can still have fun riding a heavy bike!

  31. #31
    The Duuude, man...
    Reputation: ncj01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,537
    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    When anyone asks about Monkey weights, the reply is always
    "Depends how much you want to spend"
    Well has anyone ponyed up on one?
    Who has pimped out Monkey? (geared preferred)
    How much did it cost? how much does it weigh?
    Everyone says their's is light then it's a SS...nothing against SS's
    but what about us gear users?
    I think this one was 27 and change, built like this:
    *king hubs to delgato rims
    *WB CX-1
    *Avid Ti Copper V's
    *XT shifter/levers/drlrs/cassette
    *King HS
    *Steel Nano's
    *XTR crnks/bb
    *FSA XC 120 stem
    *Race Face Low-rise bar
    *Titec X Wing Post
    *Titec Ithys saddle
    *Egg Beaters
    *lock on grips
    *Can't remember the skewer type

    <img border=3 img src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/kmfullrightprofilenice.jpg">
    FS: Everything

  32. #32
    Big Wheel Homer !!
    Reputation: cruzthepug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,749
    Quote Originally Posted by mnagel200
    Hey, you can still have fun riding a heavy bike!
    My monkey comes in just under 25lbs. single speed.

    Large frame/KM fork
    Bontrager Race Lite wheelset (about 1800 grams)
    Avid mech 185 disc
    carbon seatpost, bars
    FSA V-drive crank arms (very stiff)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  33. #33
    Recovering Weight Weenie
    Reputation: Padre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,814
    I guess my 30lb rigid SS isn't that much heavier than everyone else rig.
    I consider places to shave weight..and it's just not worth it:
    brakes: save a little on v-brakes? yeah right! i like stopping too much.
    rotor size: go down to 160mm from 200mm? uh, no. i like big power too much.
    pedals: atacs instead of Zs? i'd save 150grams or so.. but less power transfer I feel..

    It's all fun!

  34. #34
    No Reputation!
    Reputation: Fastskiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,705

    Why do you want light anyway??

    Yes I know you don't want to spend a lot of cash for a nice bike and have it weigh 29 pounds but exactly how much does a heavy bike slow you down? I'm in the same boat building up a bike and have some SERIOUS weight weenie tendancies but I just found another bit about how little weight matters....if you're goal is going fast anyway.

    http://www.zipp.com/products/wheels/404.shtml

    "(On an 8 percent grade, a 1-watt savings is the equivalent of a static weight reduction of 340 grams!)"

    This is from Zipp's website and the 404 wheel section specifically and I've included a link. Now what this says to me is that if your bike weighs a whopping 5# more than mine, you get to pedal about 6.7 watts easier up the hill. Now figure we're pretty good riders not killing ourselves and you're producing 250 watts, well I've gotta pedal 257 watts. At least while we're going uphill, I get a little of that back on the descent. Plus you've got to run light flexy wheels with skinny bald tires and narrow handlebars and have a splitting wedge saddle while I'm sitting in fat city cranking along. Which do you think is easier? Oh yeah, and your bike cost 5K and mine was 2K.

    I've been riding and racing for 12 years and my two best races ever were on a 27.5# bike and a 26.4# bike (both hardtails....one a rigid single speed!). My lightest bike was a tricked out dually at 24#'s. (well, tricked out for me anyway...I guess it wasn't super super light).

    I ride with some geek freaks and they rode Trek Madonnes this year. One of 'em picked up my litespeed and mentioned how heavy it felt. Yeah, 19.5#, it's a friggin tank next to those treks. But we're nearly 200# dudes and ride in Illinois!

    Ok, you don't believe me that it doesn't matter and zipp makes road bike stuff so it doesn't apply, right? How about Keith Bontrager? His site says if you weigh 150# and have a 25# bike and climb a 1 mile climb in 12 minutes, you will be 7.2 seconds faster if you cut 795 grams from your bike. Wanna read the long story, just follow the link.

    http://bontrager.com/keith/rants.asp?id=25

    So I wouldn't get too wrapped up in weight. It's an easy thing to compare and it's what everybody focuses on but when it comes to going faster, it doesn't matter very much. What you want is a good ride and I don't think I've ever heard of somebody not liking the ride of the KM. Good luck on the purchase and you must post pics when it's complete!

  35. #35
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    I just found another bit about how little weight matters....if you're goal is going fast anyway.
    At some point it matters, if nothing else, for the psychology of feeling fast. I doubt I'd climb as fast on say, a 45 pound bike as on a 25 pound bike.

  36. #36
    No Reputation!
    Reputation: Fastskiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,705

    well you could but

    it would take an additional 30 watts to go the same speed, according to Zipp's data. There is no question a light bike is faster but you've got to consider how much faster is a couple of pounds because that's the difference between light stuff and regular stuff.

  37. #37

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    So I wouldn't get too wrapped up in weight. It's an easy thing to compare and it's what everybody focuses on but when it comes to going faster, it doesn't matter very much. What you want is a good ride and I don't think I've ever heard of somebody not liking the ride of the KM. Good luck on the purchase and you must post pics when it's complete!
    I think people have different ideas about what is 'light weight'. For me, any mountain bike under 28 pounds is pretty light. If I could get a Karate Monkey that weighs 25-26 pounds I would be thrilled but I realize that a pound or two isn't going to make a huge difference. I just don't want it to be a tank. Where I do most of my riding there are a lot of hills, some of them I haven't been able to ride all the way up, and it seems that reducing the weight a little can't do any harm. I could maybe drop about 5 pounds myself but I don't think I should go much lower than that.

  38. #38
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    it would take an additional 30 watts to go the same speed, according to Zipp's data. There is no question a light bike is faster but you've got to consider how much faster is a couple of pounds because that's the difference between light stuff and regular stuff.
    A couple of pounds? How about three? Four? Five? What's the threshold? At some point it matters. Consider Lance's climbing bike that weighed in at some ridiculously light weight (what was it, 13 pounds???). He seems to think a couple of pounds makes a difference, and I'd say his goal is definitely to go fast

    If your goal is to have fun, then a couple of pounds might not matter, but if it's to go fast, then I'd say it does matter. Perhaps the question should be, "how much faster do you want to go?" If a couple of seconds makes a difference to you (i.e., your paycheck depends on it) then grams count.

  39. #39
    Master of the Obvious
    Reputation: Angus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    498

    Go Walt Go !

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt
    If your budget calls for a Karate Monkey, and you're not a serious weight weenie or racer geek, you need to not worry about weight for a while. You're just going to make yourself crazy - build the KM with cheap, solid parts. Let it end up 28 or 30 pounds. So what? Make sure it's the kind of bike you'll NEVER have to fix or replace parts on. Then keep that bike for 20 years - and if you want a lightweight racer setup, get something else to complement it when you've got the money.

    You can easily build yourself a KM for under $1000 that will go forever - and be a source of backup parts when/if your race bike falls apart. In my opinion, people that spend big bucks on parts for the KM are kind of missing the point - it's an awesome bike, but if you want to drop $2000, you should be looking for a nicer frame. On the other hand, if you're on a budget, you might as well not worry about tweaking things to save 10 grams here or there - let it be a tank! Your wallet will thank you, and your legs won't notice the difference after the first 5 minutes.

    -Walt
    My monkey is just 26 lbs, and its not a cheap build , but it is close to bullit proof, but I did get the core of the bike cheaply on ebay!! I got the whole bike for $665 it had a lame wheelset and narrow bars, but it was rideable and it was fun! I have since built up new wheels, avid mechanical disc's and some Jones H-Bars, and I really love this bike I know it will take me anywhere and bring me back.
    Even though this bike is over 5 Lbs heavier then my last Klein, it feels light and is more enjoyable on long rides/races, I will probally never sell my Monkey.
    I have had some correspondence with Walt about building a lighter 29er SS for racing, I will build this bike later on this year spring but I plan on copying the Monkey's geometry
    as I have found it to be a joy to ride.
    So don't worry about the weight, Just buy one and enjoy it !
    Check out my Blog!
    Yes ! I am posting on my Blog again! come visit!

  40. #40
    Always Learning
    Reputation: BruceBrown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,606
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    A couple of pounds? How about three? Four? Five? What's the threshold? At some point it matters. Consider Lance's climbing bike that weighed in at some ridiculously light weight (what was it, 13 pounds???). He seems to think a couple of pounds makes a difference, and I'd say his goal is definitely to go fast

    If your goal is to have fun, then a couple of pounds might not matter, but if it's to go fast, then I'd say it does matter. Perhaps the question should be, "how much faster do you want to go?" If a couple of seconds makes a difference to you (i.e., your paycheck depends on it) then grams count.
    Sure, but I think we can count a few of the fingers on one hand the # of guys/gals on this board that might make their living riding a bike in a race. The other 99% of us recreational riders don't have any paychecks on the line and if we do enter a race, are satisified with the post race beers and brats. In other words, even a 13 pound bike ain't gonna help us - even if it does help the 180+ Tour de whatever riders who do it for a living and have the financial backing and support of the teams and equipment makers.

    Besides, if you follow the wish for fatter tires on the 29inch Wheeled Bikes threads - everyone here is excited about the option of adding some more grams to their bikes once the 2.3's/2.4's hit the market.

    BB

  41. #41
    No Reputation!
    Reputation: Fastskiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,705

    I really don't think it matters...for you and me anyway

    Well the fact is that if you're going for a world record or something, weight is a big deal, no doubt. And the weight limit is 6.8kg in the big tours so most of the bikes of the contenders are about 6.8kg.

    As far as what I think...let's see, I don't think there is anything wrong with light bikes-they are pretty cool. I don't think you or I would go any faster on a bike that is 3 pounds lighter. As a pro it would make a difference sometimes. But when you see somebody win a 40 minute hill climb by a minute, he'd still win if his bike weighed 2#'s more so I don't think weight played a role in the uphill TT in the tour this year.

    I'm not saying build it heavy because heavy is better than light (even tho it probably seems like it). But I am saying that if you have a thousand dollars to spend on a bike, weight probably shouldn't be a big priority. And I'm also saying that according to the stuff I've read, a few pounds (let's say 5 or less just because) on the bike won't slow you down nearly as much as you think they would....probabaly an unmeasurable amount (or nearly), even on a climb.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    A couple of pounds? How about three? Four? Five? What's the threshold? At some point it matters. Consider Lance's climbing bike that weighed in at some ridiculously light weight (what was it, 13 pounds???). He seems to think a couple of pounds makes a difference, and I'd say his goal is definitely to go fast

    If your goal is to have fun, then a couple of pounds might not matter, but if it's to go fast, then I'd say it does matter. Perhaps the question should be, "how much faster do you want to go?" If a couple of seconds makes a difference to you (i.e., your paycheck depends on it) then grams count.

  42. #42
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,195
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Sure, but I think we can count a few of the fingers on one hand the # of guys/gals on this board that might make their living riding a bike in a race. The other 99% of us recreational riders don't have any paychecks on the line and if we do enter a race, are satisified with the post race beers and brats. In other words, even a 13 pound bike ain't gonna help us - even if it does help the 180+ Tour de whatever riders who do it for a living and have the financial backing and support of the teams and equipment makers.

    Besides, if you follow the wish for fatter tires on the 29inch Wheeled Bikes threads - everyone here is excited about the option of adding some more grams to their bikes once the 2.3's/2.4's hit the market.

    BB
    We're in complete agreement.
    Last edited by Nat; 01-08-2005 at 11:59 PM.

  43. #43
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy
    Well the fact is that if you're going for a world record or something, weight is a big deal, no doubt. And the weight limit is 6.8kg in the big tours so most of the bikes of the contenders are about 6.8kg.

    As far as what I think...let's see, I don't think there is anything wrong with light bikes-they are pretty cool. I don't think you or I would go any faster on a bike that is 3 pounds lighter. As a pro it would make a difference sometimes. But when you see somebody win a 40 minute hill climb by a minute, he'd still win if his bike weighed 2#'s more so I don't think weight played a role in the uphill TT in the tour this year.

    I'm not saying build it heavy because heavy is better than light (even tho it probably seems like it). But I am saying that if you have a thousand dollars to spend on a bike, weight probably shouldn't be a big priority. And I'm also saying that according to the stuff I've read, a few pounds (let's say 5 or less just because) on the bike won't slow you down nearly as much as you think they would....probabaly an unmeasurable amount (or nearly), even on a climb.
    A few pounds wouldn't make a difference to me, although I wouldn't mind an ultralight bike simply for the cool-factor. The function of each component I find more important. I got hung up on your comment, "how little weight matters....if you're goal is going fast anyway," which to me sounded as if you were saying that a bike's weight does not affect performance...period. In some cases it does, such as with the racer who might win or not win by less than a second.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Nat; 01-09-2005 at 12:04 AM.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    361

    Worth the extra weight: In Gold er uh... Brown

    Are you a pro racer? No! Could we all stand to lose the 2 lbs. this frame maybe has on others? Yes! Does the Karate Monkey ride better and handle better than any other production frame out there? Again, Yes! Should we all own one? Yes!

    Seriously, unless you're going to lay down the cash to go custom with custom geometry, don't bother looking anywhere else. Even if you do go custom, weight will be fairly comparable.

    Believe the testimonies and the hype!

Similar Threads

  1. Yet another Monkey ride review
    By motoman711 in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-24-2005, 01:42 PM
  2. Monkey front der advice
    By SoloWithOthers in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-12-2004, 10:31 AM
  3. Remembering my old Friend, Monkey
    By ncj01 in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-01-2004, 06:58 PM
  4. For fun: Dirt Rag's Monkey review
    By ncj01 in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-27-2004, 10:38 AM
  5. New XL Monkey Build
    By SoloWithOthers in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-12-2004, 02:34 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.